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Unlike mesirus's previous thread which said no force powers lets do.

mace windu vs darth bane
all out

Mace Windu 9/10.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Mace Windu 9/10.


Des is a good fighter, but I'd have to agree. Mace 9/10

Darth Bane would annihilate Mace Windu with Major Difficulty tho....But i can just see Mace Windu's headless body dropping to the ground and over on the side his Skull cracked by a rock.

ALL HAIL DARTH BANE!

ALL HAIL REVAN!!!

ALL HAIL THE SITH!!!!

Shut up

Mace doesn't use Lightning so I doubt he'd win.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Mace doesn't use Lightning so I doubt he'd win.

im not arguing in thuis forum but palp used lightening and that didnt help
him against mace

Lightning is supposed to be the only to can destroy Bane's orbalisks

Even then they were able to absorb a million volts in his fight with the shadow assassin's.

Bane. Mace's Vaapad redirects the Dark Side energy(at least from my understanding) and uses it to fight Sith. This wouldn't work well against Bane because his orbalisk's also absorb Dark Side energy and uses it to boost Bane's own attributes. I'm also doubtful that Bane has a shatterpoint. Unlike Sidious, Bane doesn't trust anyone.
He also has super-enhanced strength and speed and 90% lightsaber protection. Windu doesn't.

Even then they were able to absorb a million volts in his fight with the shadow assassin's.

You do realize a million volts is nothing, right? You can get a one million volt stun gun for under $20.

Bane. Mace's Vaapad redirects the Dark Side energy(at least from my understanding) and uses it to fight Sith. This wouldn't work well against Bane because his orbalisk's also absorb Dark Side energy and uses it to boost Bane's own attributes. I'm also doubtful that Bane has a shatterpoint. Unlike Sidious, Bane doesn't trust anyone.
He also has super-enhanced strength and speed and 90% lightsaber protection. Windu doesn't.

Vaapad creates a superconducting loop of dark side energies, it would prevent the orbalisks from absorbing any of it. Bane would have a shatterpoint, everything does, and no Sith actually trusts anyone, Sidious included. Bane's physical strength would be negated by Mace's superior force power, and 10% of a traget is no problem for someone of Master Windu's caliber.

Mace's shatterpoint and Vaapad put him on par with Sidious. He would defeat Bane with difficulty.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Even then they were able to absorb a million volts in his fight with the shadow assassin's.

It didn't exactly happen the way I believe you are inferring. page 201 RO2


Then it goes on to say how surprised the assassins were and that their miscalculation of Bane surviving gave Bane the chance to recover. But it clearly says that Bane went to his knees and he was vulnerable to another attack that a had pretty good chance to kill him if they followed up.

Well now you're just appealing to ridicule. A million volt stun gun is as powerful as they come, and could easily kill a human in seconds. Hardly nothing.



Vaapad directs the energies back at where they're coming from, so how exactly would that prevent Bane from absorbing them?



Really? Everything? Absolutely everything? I'd love to see you prove up on that kind of absolute statement.

Now assuming that Bane does have a Shatterpoint, being able to capitalise on one is a completely different story from simply being able to sense one, and given Bane's logically superior ability (as explained later one in this post), it's doubtful he'd be able to exploit one, even assuming that Bane has one, and that he senses it (it takes Mace several minutes to locate Depa Billaba's, and he trained her).



Perhaps if you were actually capable of providing a valid argument, this assertion might be of higher value. Sadly, you're not, thus, it isn't. Based on what we know - as in what they've both displayed - Bane has him beat by a pretty large margin in that department, given his display of power and mastery during the BoD's ritual Force Storm, which far eclipses anything Mace has done. He's literally able to absorb energy powerful enough to destroy an entire planet, contain it, and redirect it across the entire planet. Mace, at best, is shown to be able to hold 100 metric tonnes of rock in place with the force, and the performance requires nearly all of his concentration. Impressive, sure, but hardly compares.

Not to mention, Bane's force strength, stated to far eclipse the BoD's, and the fact that he's able to consistently outclass extremely powerful force users with his powers, and consistently use his force powers to completely disintegrate multiple opponents at once, whereas you have Mace Windu being overpowered by force users on the level of Sora Bulq at one time, and not consistently doing anything much above average.



No, you don't look at Mace's ability alone to gauge how easily he would be able to exploit such a small defence, you look at how his ability stacks up to Bane's, and it would have to be a good deal greater than the Sith Lord's for the considerable advantage to be negated, and given how you haven't even provided an argument, your claim doesn't really amount to much.

I'm personally not seeing how Mace really compares (yes, even with his mostly unsubstantiated Vaapad form, and overblown Shatterpoint gift), given how Bane's weaker PoD incarnation (who had yet to receive ten extra years of lightsaber training and study of the force, and the orbalisk armour) was able to overwhelm Kas'im in direct combat, whilst on equal footing, who had mastered and spent decades refining every single lightsaber form, and who was suggested as possibly being the greatest swordsman there had ever been up until his time.

Aside from that, he's physically more impressive, being described as a mountain of muscle, and his displays of speed easily have Mace's beat, given how he's able to move so fast that time appears to stop for powerful force users in his presence, and how he's able to move his lightsaber so fast that it appears like he's wielding twelve sabers at once, when up against someone as powerful as Darth Zannah.

I know how people love to think of Mace as some kind of Jedi Tulak Hord, but the fact is, he hardly even outclasses small timers within his era (Asajj Ventress was able to put up a fight against him, and even knock him back, after receiving hardly any training, for instance), so I don't see how he would be able to defeat Bane, who's likely the hardest lightsaber duelist there is to contend with, given his considerable ability, and orbalisk armour.

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
I know how people love to think of Mace as some kind of Jedi Tulak Hord, but the fact is, he hardly even outclasses small timers within his era (Asajj Ventress was able to put up a fight against him, and even knock him back, after receiving hardly any training, for instance).

Just curious was this before or after shatterpoint?

Before, though I don't see why there would be any kind of considerable improvement rate during the handful of months between the events.

Well now you're just appealing to ridicule. A million volt stun gun is as powerful as they come, and could easily kill a human in seconds. Hardly nothing.

LOL, this proves you don't know what the hell you're talking about. A one million volt stun gun cannot kill. Amps kill you, volts are harmless. Why do you think a 50,000 volt stun gun is non lethal put putting a fork in a 125 volt wall plug can kill you?

I don't see any point in arguing with someone who acts like they know what they're talking about but in reality is completely ignorant.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
iWell now you're just appealing to ridicule. A million volt stun gun is as powerful as they come, and could easily kill a human in seconds. Hardly nothing./i

What did I tell you about using italics? Stop doing it. You're neither cool, nor a gangstar.



Yes it can. Aimed directly at a person's heart, or aimed anywhere at a person whose body is covered with water, and it can kill you in seconds.



Don't be ridiculous. The volts determine how forcefully the current is emitted. The volts, alone, don't have any physical effect on you, so you labelling them harmless in the way that you're doing sounds just silly. The amps are what technically kill you, yes, I never denied that, but the voltage is fully proportional with the intensity of the current emitted, and in a million volt stun gun, the intensity can easily kill someone if targeted at an organ such as the heart.



Non lethal? No, lethal. Not as lethal, but if targeted at the heart or something, it would eventually kill you if continuously released.

Either way, none of this changes the fact that you committed a fallacy by trying to downplay the lethality of a million volts by using the low price of such a stun gun.



Ok, let's pretend I know nothing about physics, volt guns, and other such topics. Does that detract anything from the rest of my argument? No? Ok then. So, get to it, if you can.

This is the first time that I've been so totally outclassed in the Geek department.

Bane outclasses Windu on both Force abilities and Saber skills.
For the reason's already stated Bane wins this easily.

Quick, any mods out there: If you act now you can ban two nebaris socks at once.

Noobaris can't even win a debate with two socks. How sad.

Force=Bane
Sabers=Mace
All out is close and can go either way and by no means Darth Exodus would this battle be easy for either of them.

All out would also be Mace for the reasons as to why he won the fight with Sidious.

And i thought sidious didn't use the force in that fight till he got on his ass?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
by no means Darth Exodus would this battle be easy for either of them.

Why not exactly? On equal footing, in saber combat, PoD Bane was able to completely dominate Kas'im in their duel (who's logically above Mace in saber combat, and on his level in the very least; I'll elaborate if you wish, though it has been substantiated numerous times), and this was before obtaining the orbalisk armour, and spending ten years studying the force and training with his lightsaber. By Ro2, Bane would logically be able to completely decimate Kas'im under the same circumstances, so I really fail to see how he'd have to really work hard to beat someone on Mace's level.

As for force combat, Bane's performance during the BoD's Force Storm Ritual is literally a gazillion times greater than anything Mace has ever done, and his force strength is stated to be on a level far, far greater than what can be deducted for the Jedi.

From what we know, Mace is nowhere near Bane's level. He would logically get owned.

Don't be ridiculous. The volts determine how forcefully the current is emitted. The volts, alone, don't have any physical effect on you, so you labelling them harmless in the way that you're doing sounds just silly. The amps are what technically kill you, yes, I never denied that, but the voltage is fully proportional with the intensity of the current emitted, and in a million volt stun gun, the intensity can easily kill someone if targeted at an organ such as the heart.

No, they can't kill even "aimed at the heart," because volts aren't what kills.

Non lethal? No, lethal. Not as lethal, but if targeted at the heart or something, it would eventually kill you if continuously released.

Either way, none of this changes the fact that you committed a fallacy by trying to downplay the lethality of a million volts by using the low price of such a stun gun.

They cannot kill, period. They have done numerous studies of the devices effects, and even when they probes are placed so that the heart is directly between the probes, feeling thew full brunt of the discharge there is no change in the hearts rhythm. Taser International has been sued hundreds of times for "causing deaths," and they have never lost one of these cases, because no evidence supports the assertion that tasers kill. Stun guns are even l;ess harmful than tasers, because they operate on local muscle mass, they don't incapacitate the central nervous system. They sure as hell cannot kill.

I am Taser International certified to operate the X 26 device, I had to go through a long training program, and I've had one used on me. Try not to argue with a pro noobaris, you'll just look even sillier.

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
Why not exactly? On equal footing, in saber combat, PoD Bane was able to completely dominate Kas'im in their duel (who's logically above Mace in saber combat, and on his level in the very least; I'll elaborate if you wish, though it has been substantiated numerous times), and this was before obtaining the orbalisk armour, and spending ten years studying the force and training with his lightsaber. By Ro2, Bane would logically be able to completely decimate Kas'im under the same circumstances, so I really fail to see how he'd have to really work hard to beat someone on Mace's level.
If by dominate you mean end up getting pwned and having to use the force to defeat Kas'im, you are currently. Furthermore, Mace possesses an innate ability that is probably the most useful against a darksider. But you love twisting shit around as usual. The very fact that Mace defeated Sidious tells you Mace>Bane. Btw, youhave to prove he studied with a saber for 10 years. Don't tell us what you "logically" think Bane would do to Kas'im because you don't possess any semblance of logic.


Your ridiculous point has been destroyed many times, yet you repeat it.. This is another reason your dumbass is always banned. Stop making up bullshit because it hasn't helped you win a debate thus far.


From what we know, Mace's shatterpoint and Vaapad were enough to down Sidious, and they will be enough to down Bane.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Don't be ridiculous. The volts determine how forcefully the current is emitted. The volts, alone, don't have any physical effect on you, so you labelling them harmless in the way that you're doing sounds just silly. The amps are what technically kill you, yes, I never denied that, but the voltage is fully proportional with the intensity of the current emitted, and in a million volt stun gun, the intensity can easily kill someone if targeted at an organ such as the heart.

No, they can't kill even "aimed at the heart," because volts aren't what kills.

Non lethal? No, lethal. Not as lethal, but if targeted at the heart or something, it would eventually kill you if continuously released.

Either way, none of this changes the fact that you committed a fallacy by trying to downplay the lethality of a million volts by using the low price of such a stun gun.

They cannot kill, period. They have done numerous studies of the devices effects, and even when they probes are placed so that the heart is directly between the probes, feeling thew full brunt of the discharge there is no change in the hearts rhythm. Taser International has been sued hundreds of times for "causing deaths," and they have never lost one of these cases, because no evidence supports the assertion that tasers kill. Stun guns are even l;ess harmful than tasers, because they operate on local muscle mass, they don't incapacitate the central nervous system. They sure as hell cannot kill.

I am Taser International certified to operate the X 26 device, I had to go through a long training program, and I've had one used on me. Try not to argue with a pro noobaris, you'll just look even sillier.

Don't waste your time. His points have been defeated and he'll continue typing.

Originally posted by Ivalice
And i thought sidious didn't use the force in that fight till he got on his ass?


He was using it to hide his real face. Small detail I know but . . .

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Don't be ridiculous. The volts determine how forcefully the current is emitted. The volts, alone, don't have any physical effect on you, so you labelling them harmless in the way that you're doing sounds just silly. The amps are what technically kill you, yes, I never denied that, but the voltage is fully proportional with the intensity of the current emitted, and in a million volt stun gun, the intensity can easily kill someone if targeted at an organ such as the heart.

No, they can't kill even "aimed at the heart," because volts aren't what kills.

Apparently you failed to read through my post carefully. Voltage determines the intensity of the current. They're directly proportional, the higher the voltage, the more intense the current, which does kill you.



Which is exactly why there are numerous cases of them actually causing deaths, right?



LOL, yeah, because it's a common known fact that people never lie on the intranet. Please, you just saying that you're a pro doesn't make you one, and if that were even the case, it doesn't mean you can't be wrong, and it still doesn't change the fact that you're not reading through my posts properly, and that you committed a logical fallacy by bringing up the irrelevant price of a stun gun to undermine the intensity of the lightning. Now post a credible source or drop the point.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
If by dominate you mean end up getting pwned and having to use the force to defeat Kas'im, you are currently.

No, that would be when Kas'im had an extreme advantage against Bane, in the form of his mastery of all 7 forms of the alien dual sabers, with which Kas'im was stated to be able to perform millions of different combinations that Bane had never seen before.

Now if you actually knew how to read, you would have seen that I was referring to when they were on equal footing, where Bane was actually able to completely overwhelm him.



How am I twisting shit around as usual? Did I deny that? No? Good, so stop making shit up then.

Now given that you're making the point, how about validly substantiating the ability?

It clearly didn't make him a lightsaber God when up against the amnesiac darkside driven Quinlan Vos (given how Quinlan was able to show signs of superiority over the Jedi Master, being able to successfully land a kick to his head for instance, and how he was unable to disarm him and was forced to appeal to Quinlan's morality), nor did it prevent him from getting thrown back in the air by a fatigued and relatively poorly trained darksider Asajj Ventress, and getting pushed to the ground by the darksider Sora Bulq. Yet because it granted him the ability to defeat Sidious under suspicious circumstances, it somehow means he'd do the same to a guy who's displayed greater ability than all of the above mentioned, and who happens to possess armour that makes his entire body, with the exception of his face, invincible ?

Lovely reasoning.



Sure it would, if you could prove that:

a) the win was legitimate, and

b) that Sidious > Bane.

Both of which, you can't.



He's shown to spar with and train Zannah in a flashback, as part of her training, both of which would result in Bane working on his own skills. It can be logically concluded that this form of training was a constant routine throughout her ten year of training, given the fact that the lightsaber was Zannah's primary weapon.



Sure thing. I mean the weaker Bane, without orbalisk armour, was only able to overwhelm Kas'im on equal footing, ergo logic according to Dave would dictate that the stronger and nearly physically invincible Bane, rather than being even more dominant against Kas'im in such a situation, would instead get his ass kicked. You truly are the man when it comes to logic, Dave.



Right, because Ad Hominem has always been a valid counter argument. Dave for the win!



Sure it would, if you could prove that:

a) the win was legitimate, and

b) that Sidious > Bane.

Both of which, you can't.

Are your pathetic attempts at wit meant to impress me?

Bane is infinitely more impressive with the Force and is easily Mace's equal or superior with so he wins.

That last one was meant to say: Mace's equal or superior with a lightsaber, apologies.

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
No, that would be when Kas'im had an extreme advantage against Bane, in the form of his mastery of all 7 forms of the alien dual sabers, with which Kas'im was stated to be able to perform millions of different combinations that Bane had never seen before.
Try again Noobaris. Kas'im taught Bane everything he knows. He used his force mastery as well, to gain the advantage. Once Kas'im threw something at Bane that Bane DIDN'T know, he was pwned.


Good for you Noobaris. Unfortunately, that was for only part of the fight.


Suspicious my ass Noobaris. GL said that Mace overpowered him. I know you love arguing with facts so I'm waiting.


I would say the same about the one who's never won a debate.





A. Don't have to. GL did it for us when he said Mace overpowered Sidious. You know this and playing stupid makes you look ridiculous.
B. Don't have to. We have various sources (of which you are familiar with), that make Sidious #1 in Bane's lineage, then the entire order of the sith. The burden of proof is on you to prove Bane is superior to Sidious since facts state otherwise, and you can't. You lose.




Because he sparred with Zannah, it can be "logically" concluded that it was a constant routine? Weird, 10 years later we see Zannah on missions trying to stir up the republic while Bane was sitting back on Ambria. Guess he was sparring with a ghost partner.




Stronger? Physically. Nearly Invincible? Hardly. Sorry Noobaris but you just create more comedy when you add nonsense to the post (always). Nothing suggests Bane's lightsaber skills have improved greatly. Give Kas'im two blades and he'd pwn Bane again. And when it comes to logic Noobaris, I may not be Escape or Advent, but you're the one with a 0 in the win column..




You wouldn't know what an Ad Hominem was if it came up to you and asked you for sex. For me to commit such a fallacy, you would have to provide a logical argument. You haven't, so it's a factual insult. Try again.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Are your pathetic attempts at wit meant to impress me?

Bane is infinitely more impressive with the Force and is easily Mace's equal or superior with so he wins.

You'd have to prove it.. ONce again
Mace defeated Sidious
Sidious>Bane (Yes argue with canon please).
Mace>Bane in saber combat.

Apparently you failed to read through my post carefully. Voltage determines the intensity of the current. They're directly proportional, the higher the voltage, the more intense the current, which does kill you.

No, they are not proportional in any way, shape or form. A 125 volt wall socket has 15-20 amps, a 50,000 volt Taser has .002 amps. I know you like looking stupid noobaris, but arguing with someone who is an actual professional? Come on.

Which is exactly why there are numerous cases of them actually causing deaths, right?

There are 0 cases of them causing deaths. That's why Taser International has never lost a single one of the hundreds of law suits against them, because no evidence anywhere suggests a Taser was a cause of death.


LOL, yeah, because it's a common known fact that people never lie on the intranet. Please, you just saying that you're a pro doesn't make you one, and if that were even the case, it doesn't mean you can't be wrong, and it still doesn't change the fact that you're not reading through my posts properly, and that you committed a logical fallacy by bringing up the irrelevant price of a stun gun to undermine the intensity of the lightning. Now post a credible source or drop the point.

I am a pro, I carry a Taser 5 days a week, and its not that I'm reading your posts improperly, its that you're doing nothing but posting uneducated idiocy. Please, stop being stupid for once in your miserable life.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader

There are 0 cases of them causing deaths. That's why Taser International has never lost a single one of the hundreds of law suits against them, because no evidence anywhere suggests a Taser was a cause of death.


Actually according to a U.N. committee Taser electronic stun guns are a form of torture that can kill, a UN committee said on Friday after several recent deaths in North America."The use of these weapons causes acute pain, constituting a form of torture," the UN's Committee against Torture said.

http://abbink.blogspot.com/2007/11/un-committee-taser-guns-torture-and.html

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22814674-5001028,00.html?from=public_rss
It is also worth noting that the taser companies say other factors contribute to the death of the people not the taser itself.

Thats an extremely biased blog, and the U.N. isn't very credible with things like this. Notice how they don't cite any doctors reports or coroners findings. Also notice how the study was done by "human rights experts," not cardiologists, not people who have worked with the device for a long time, not coroners, not even general medicine doctors.

They have never shown a Taser to be a medical cause of death, no coroner has ever rules the use of a taser to have killed. Just because you were tased before you died doesn't mean that caused it.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Apparently you failed to read through my post carefully. Voltage determines the intensity of the current. They're directly proportional, the higher the voltage, the more intense the current, which does kill you.

No, they are not proportional in any way, shape or form. A 125 volt wall socket has 15-20 amps, a 50,000 volt Taser has .002 amps.

The key words in CAPLOCKS and bold font for the ten year olds of the forum:

Voltage determines the INTENSITY of the current. They're directly proportional, the higher the voltage, the more INTENSE the current, which does kill you.



LOL. So having a license to carry a taser makes you an expert on physics? Don't get ahead of yourself there, you've received training in how to use tasers, you're not the electricity man.



See Darth Hord. You're also ignoring the black market tasers that emit current continuously rather than in pulses, and which are far more dangerous.



Clearly you're unaware of how easy it is to manipulate the law in such a way, and default on the fact that there's no undeniable proof that the Tasers they produce are actually the causes of the involved deaths. Doesn't change the fact that there wouldn't realistically be such a high number of cases if there wasn't something there, and it still doesn' change the fact that you're ignoring the black market tasers that continuously emit current, which are the ones I was really referring to.



I am Jack Cover, and I invented the taser. Fun, isn't it?



The Man: Voltage determines the INTENSITY of the current. They're directly proportional, the higher the voltage, the more INTENSE the current, which does kill you.

The Wanabee Electrician: No, they are not proportional in any way, shape or form. A 125 volt wall socket has 15-20 amps, a 50,000 volt Taser has .002 amps.

That's what you'd call some major improper readage of posts.



Yeah, because I'm the one who originally derailed the thread with an appeal to ridicule fallacy. Right. Your argument only stands when ignoring the illegal continuous current emission tasers, which are far more lethal than regular tasers.

Once again, voltage does not in any way, shape or form cause anything more than pain. It cannot damage you. Ask any electrician.

Black market Tasers? LOL. Let me guess, you also think we didn't land on the moon and the government is responsible for 9-11. You're a joke, noobaris.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Try again Noobaris. Kas'im taught Bane everything he knows. He used his force mastery as well, to gain the advantage. Once Kas'im threw something at Bane that Bane DIDN'T know, he was pwned.

Did I deny any of that? Quit your babbling.



The part of their fight that was on even footing, and the only part where a comparison can be drawn between the two comparisons in respect to their overall ability.



And? How is this supposed to counter anything I just said? You can overpower someone who's not utilising their full power, which is what you have to prove the opposite of for your argument to remain standing, which you can't do.



And? How is this supposed to counter anything I just said? You can overpower someone who's not utilising their full power, which is what you have to prove the opposite of for your argument to remain standing, which you can't do.



Not one source of which the statement is question has been completely conclusive, and been presented from an infallible source.



No. You made the point, and you've yet to prove up, ergo the BoP is still on you.



As in it wasn't a one time thing, but a constant part of her training.



No, not just physically. He possessed greater refinement of the force, more experience with the lightsaber, and the physical and force related enhancements of the orbalisks, as well as enhancements of his natural human senses and energy levels.



Not exactly a valid counter argument there Dave. It's directly stated, in Ro2, to be "virtually indestructible," and lightning is it's only known weakness. The blade of a lightsaber is completely worthless against it, ergo, in a battle with Mace (the only way he can tangibly attack bane is with his lightsaber, or with TK, that we know of), for all intents and purposes, it is completely indestructible.



Everything suggests it, not to mention it's the protection provided by the armour that makes the real difference.



Irrelevant misdirection. It's not an advantage that Mace would have over Bane.

Also, what you'd call an unsupported assumption. Bane's orbalisk armour, plus his general increase in ability could easily be enough to compensate for his lack of knowledge of Kas'im's style, so it's hardly cut and dry.



Please. I'd rate the guy who fancies himself an expert on lightning above you. You're probably the worst on this entire forum that actually thinks he's good, and I'm actually speaking the truth.



Erm, no. It's a logical fallacy regardless of who or what it's directed at. Know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Once again, voltage does not in any way, shape or form cause anything more than pain. It cannot damage you. Ask any electrician.

The Man: Apparently you failed to read through my post carefully. Voltage determines the intensity of the current. They're directly proportional, the higher the voltage, the more intense the current, which does kill you.

The Man: Don't be ridiculous. The volts determine how forcefully the current is emitted. The volts, alone, don't have any physical effect on you, so you labelling them harmless in the way that you're doing sounds just silly. The amps are what technically kill you, yes, I never denied that, but the voltage is fully proportional with the intensity of the current emitted, and in a million volt stun gun, the intensity can easily kill someone if targeted at an organ such as the heart.

Learn to read before engaging in arguments.



Clearly you're not quite the expert you'd have us believe if you don't know anything about the illegal trade of continuous current emission tasers. Google is your friend.

I actually found a video of the man being "tasered to death"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/15/world/main3504859.shtml

And here is the response by then taser company

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=129937&p=NewsArticle&id=1079167
Here is a little piece of what the company said
"This tragic incident appears to follow the pattern of many in-custody deaths or deaths following a confrontation with police. Historically, medical science and forensic analysis has shown that these deaths are attributable to other factors and not the low-energy electrical discharge of the TASER(r). Specifically in Canada, while previous incidents were widely reported in the media as 'TASER deaths,' the role of the TASER device has been cleared in every case to date -- including the widely publicized Bagnell in-custody death in Vancouver where the TASER device was cleared by an inquest jury."

"Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate. The video of the incident at the Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the TASER application. This continuing struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the TASER device electrical current causing cardiac arrest. His continuing struggle is proof that the TASER device was not the cause of his death. Further, the video clearly shows symptoms of excited delirium, a potentially fatal condition marked by symptoms of exhaustion and mania such as heavy breathing, profuse sweating, confusion, disorientation and violence toward inanimate objects."



It is also worth pointing out that taser "deaths" while may occur in some shape of form(ex. causing cardiac arrest) appear to be in the minority.


Here is more info on tasers killing people and in it the article says that about 300 people are killed after being tasered though from what I gather from the article is it is unknown how they die.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/25/national/main3537803.shtml

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
The part of their fight that was on even footing, and the only part where a comparison can be drawn between the two comparisons in respect to their overall ability.
They were on equal footing when Kas'im unleashed hell. Try again.




Except the burden of proof is on you. It's hilarious how you go with the imaginary theory of Palpatine "faking" it when GL stated the complete opposite. Since facts are against you, you lose again. But I suppose that went right over your head.




No no, just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it false. That's a huge reason why you've been banned 30+ times.




yet again, it's already been proven and you continue to ignore facts. Another 30 bans and maybe you'll start arguing logically.




Please quantify "virtually indestructible". Furthermore, Bane LOVES to use his force lightning which is on a tier below Palpatine's. What's going to happen when he shoots it at Mace? I'll let you reread the conclusion to RO2.



So you say.


Gee now it's "could be"? Last post you were a lot more sure. Which is it n00b?




You would be speaking the truth if anybody agreed with you, if you had any credibility on this forum, if you've ever won a debate, etc. But you fail at A, B, and C.





No Noobaris. If there is no argument present (which in your case, there usually never is), it's called an insult. It becomes a fallacy when I attack you instead of your position. Since you don't have any kind of logical argument going on, it is called an insult. Go back to the drawing board.

Good lord, noobaris, you're beyond stupid.

I don't see what the argument regarding the lightsaber duel is about; Kas'im had Darth Bane scrambling and on the defensive the second that he unleashed a variant of a form that Bane was unfamiliar with. Mace Windu is the undisputed master of the most lethal and difficult form -- canonically -- his form and technique are better than Bane's own. Especially once you factor in that Bane is a dark sider. I'm sorry, but there won't be any pwnage on Bane's behalf with a lightsaber, even if one includes orbalisks.

We know escape, we know.

Truth be told I've also always been a bit suspicious of that fight myself. However, If GL himself staed that Sidious really got beat then it must be true.
IF.


You seem to be forgetting me.



One of the first points that I made was that Bane's orbalisks absorb the Dark side which is exactly what Vaapad utilises.



A) Sidious was able to counter it effectively so it stands to reason that Bane should.
B) It was stated in POD that the forms are secondary compared to someones force mastery. Everyone here agrees that Bane is the better force user so suck on that.
C) The unfimiliarity of Mace's style would be countered by Bane's own. When has Mace ever fought someone who could block with his crotch.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
They were on equal footing when Kas'im unleashed hell. Try again.

No, they were not, because Kas'im was utilising a completely unfamiliar weapon against Bane, when he "unleashed hell," one with which he had mastered and been in the process of perfecting every single form of the lightsaber with, and one which he could perform millions of combinations with that were all completely alien to Bane. Try again.



No, it's still on you, because you made the claim, and have yet to prove up.



Quote me for truth or quit making shit up. I'm simply open to the possibility of it, I never once said that it was definitely my stance.



No. Saying that Mace overpowered Sidious does not deny the possibility that Sidious was holding back, and is certainly not the opposite.



It surely would have given the awe inspiring complexity of your joke there, but after using it about 500 times I think even fascistcrusader started to get it.



Right, because you simply saying such makes it the case, right? Post any of the statements, prove that it's being given by an infallible source, prove the canonicity of it, prove that it's completely conclusive, and then prove that it coincides with your argument. Do all of that, or drop the point.



Yeah, because that's why Rex bans me. The sad thing is, there's only one time I ever recall someone being banned based on how they argue, and that would be you, by Illustrious.



Let's pretend I haven't seen this "proof." Show it to me, or drop the point.



It was already further elaborated on, so no. Obviously "virtually" is ambiguous, so it's not possible. Point is, my original claim (which you disagreed with), that the orbalisks makes him nearly physically invincible (which is exactly the same as being virtually indestructible), stands given canon narration.



We argue based on whether or not the combatants have the means to defeat the other, not what they would realistically do, so even if Mace can even block Bane's lightning, we'd assume that Bane wouldn't be using it, so as to have the best chance in winning the matchup. In which case, Mace would still be completely unable to deal damage to the orbalisks.



Unsupported assumption. Bane's shown refinement of the ability beyond any other (directing it across an entire plant, and creating miniature storms) and his force strength, stated to be far beyond the BoD, is insane, and above what can be deducted for Palpatine, ergo, Bane logically has the stronger force lightning.



Don't be ridiculous. The force strong Worror was forced to sacrifice himself in order to release the entirety of his power to deflect Bane's lightning, and even then it's unlikely that Bane's use of force lightning, in that specific circumstance, was approaching his full level of power, given there was no necessity for it (the battle had been pretty much won, given the weak Johun Othone was the only one who remained, and he was missing as arm at the time, and was no threat) and the fact that he's been using the force in excess throughout the battle. You have no logical basis in claiming that Mace would be able to do the same.



So I say? No, it's whatever anyone with a brain would say, given that Mace Windu's form is nowhere near as alien to Bane as Kas'im's was.



Quit making shit up. That was the first time I made a conclusion as to how Bane (Ro2 incarnation with orbalisk armour) would do against Kas'im when wielding his dual sabers (reason being it's irrelevant). There was no last post where I spoke about it for me to have been more sure about it. Though (and not that I have to support the stance), the fact that Bane himself has a unique style (with his orbalisks) would further support the idea that he could possibly defeat Kas'im in such a scenario.



Appeal to popular any kind of consensus, logical fallacy.



Ad Hominem in its truest sense. You're arguing against what is being said solely based on the person saying it.



Sure thing.



No, do some research. It's a fallacy no matter the circumstance it's presented in. Not to mention that your assertion that no logical argument had been put forth is (to anyone with a brain) obvious bullshit.

Originally posted by Gideon
I don't see what the argument regarding the lightsaber duel is about; Kas'im had Darth Bane scrambling and on the defensive the second that he unleashed a variant of a form that Bane was unfamiliar with.

The Bane who had yet to gain the orbalisk armour, and receive ten years of force study and lightsaber training, not to mention it's irrelevant as it's an advantage that only Kas'im possesses, and something that doesn't detract from Bane's relative level of ability.

What would be relevant, however, is that the mentioned incarnation of Bane, on equal footing (which is the only way we can compare their relative ability) with Kas'im, was able to completely overwhelm the lightsaber God, indicating his overall ability was already far above the Twi'lek's. Factor in how much more impressive he gets by Ro2, and he's pretty much untouchable.



Oh really? Funny how "the undisputed master" considered Depa's use of the form above his own. Funny indeed.



You need to stop throwing that word around when it's far from as cut and dry as you're trying to make it out to be.

With the orbalisks, Bane is virtually able to take a fully offensive stance in battle, can use his body to parry his opponent's strikes, and can integrate melee attacks with his form in a way that wouldn't be possible for anyone without such armour.

Not to mention, his form is stated to be completely unique to Bane, given the variance in his grip of the hilt and the angle of the blade.

The forms, alone, are at the very least comparable, in terms of their effectiveness, and Bane's speed and strength etc. can be argued to be far above his.



Which gives Mace a completely unknown advantage. We know that Vaapad has properties that work exclusively against darksiders, but we have no idea just how potent those properties truly are. As I earlier mentioned, they didn't make him a God in combat against an amnesiac Quinlan Vos, a barely trained and fatigued Asajj Ventress, or the relatively average Sora Bulq. They didn't change the fact that Mace Windu, by his own admission, wouldn't have been able to take Kar Vastor on his best day. Not to mention, as seen against Sidious, it takes time for Mace to fully get in tune with that aspect of the form - time that Bane could easily quickly overwhelm him given the offensive nature of his form.



Because you say so? PoD Bane would logically be able to defeat the Jedi without applying too much effort, given the way he dominates against someone as impressive as Kas'im. The much stronger Ro2 Bane would logically decimate him.

Originally posted by OmegaSupreme
The Bane who had yet to gain the orbalisk armour, and receive ten years of force study and lightsaber training, not to mention it's irrelevant as it's an advantage that only Kas'im possesses, and something that doesn't detract from Bane's relative level of ability.
Yet you can't claim he received 10 years of lightsaber training because you don't know what he did those ten years. The advantage that Kas'im possesses isn't irrelevant just because you want it to be. In fact it's very relevant because it's what Kas'im would use to defeat Bane.


Except Bane isn't a lightsaber God imbecile. Luke Skywalker is a saber God. Palpatine is a saber god. Bane isn't. Then you fail to mention that Kas'im taught Bane everything Bane learned and that when Kas'im used something unfamiliar to Bane. he pwned him. So there goes your whole argument.




Which is completely irrelevant.


Except Palpatine couldn't get through Mace's defenses. And Palpatine is superior to Bane.. Try again...


AHAHA now you're claiming the form is unique.


no



We know Mace's "properties" were more than enough to defeat Sidious. Try again. Keep creating ridiculous justifications.





So logically Anakin would defeat Obiwan because he beat Dooku, the Spurs would be able to beat cleveland after beating Dallas, and I would be able to negotiate multimillion dollar deals in person just because I can do it on the internet. Sorry Noobaris, you don't know a thing about logic..

Goodbye Noobaris..

Finally, what took them so long this time?

Just wondering, since when did Darth Bane have a purple lightsaber?

Yea since when? Maybe its because of the jedi vs sith images and the orbalisk bane in NEGTC.

Well i doubt he actually uses a purple saber.

Hmmm. i just read the novels.

Originally he had a purple lightsaber as seen in a pic of him on Wiki. I think though that in POD he started with a red one, but then Qordis gave him a synthetic crystal of unspecified colour. He has a red one on the front of RO2 though...