Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Which team takes it?

rots vader or OT vader?

Is this ROTS Kenobi?

this is in the wrong forum it should be in the vs forum.

Maul and ROTS Windu would take any Obi and post-ROTS Vader.

Maul and ROTS Windu I believe would still beat ROTS Obi and Vader, but it'd be a hard enough fight.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
this is in the wrong forum it should be in the vs forum.
agreed.

It will be moved, eventually.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Maul and ROTS Windu would take any Obi and post-ROTS Vader.

Maul and ROTS Windu I believe would still beat ROTS Obi and Vader, but it'd be a hard enough fight.

Maul is the weak link here...

The thing is that Mace can beat either one of his opponents pretty easily. So my only scenario in Obi-Wan/Vaders defense is this.

Obi-Wan uses every ounce of his soresu skills to hold Mace back for as long as he can while Vader utterly destroys Maul with the force. Then Vader jumps in at the last second to help take out Mace.

That's pretty iffy though, Vader can definitely beat Maul if he uses his force abilities instead of trying to use his lightsaber, but I don't know if Obi-Wan can hold Mace back that long.

Eh, I say Mace/Maul take the majority.

lets not forget OT Vader is 80% of Sidious in Power. If you think about it 80% of the guy who blinded and took down the whole jedi order. 80% of the Most Powerful Sith Lord in History.. thats Really Powerful!

so Mace wnt take Vader down without great difficulty, unless you think Mace is 90%-100% of Sidious.

/agreed, but obi wan (NOT AGAIN) would takedown maul probably with 70% dificulty (if this is rots/anh obi wan), and then vader and obi wan would team on mace.

Maul/mace eat crap.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
/agreed, but obi wan (NOT AGAIN) would takedown maul

uh oh... u mean this comes down to Obi-Wan vs. Maul again... Nooooooooooo! LOL

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
uh oh... u mean this comes down to Obi-Wan vs. Maul again... Nooooooooooo! LOL

It does..sort of. It really depends who fights who(im talking about saber combat here). Should Maul fight Obiwan then the fight could very well be drawn out a fair amount of time due to obiwan's soresu. I can see Mace killing Anakin faster than he disarmed ROTS Sidious then coming to help Maul and finish Kenobi. If Maul fights Anakin then he will die faster imo than Mace could kill obiwan in saber combat. Then Mace would have his hands full in saber combat and might be able to kill one of them but i think he could be too tired to finish the other.

Well... to be honest, I think that depending on the matchup, it could go either way. Anyways, just to clarify before I go on; Maul is weaker than both Obi-Wan and Anakin, while Mace is stronger than either of them.

If the matchup is Obi-Wan vs. Mace and Anakin vs. Maul, I'm inclinded to say that Obi/Anakin should take a win. Obi-Wan, being a master of the form best at keeping the user alive and also being possibly the most cunning Jedi in the Order, should be able to fend off Mace for a certain while- Mace's Vaapad won't perform to its full extent, because it requires the opponent to be a darksider in order to unleash its full potential. However, Anakin vs. Maul should be faster; Anakin will be able to defeat Maul while Obi-Wan is probably still fending off Mace. Anakin and Obi-Wan doubleteam Mace, and beat him.

Also note that Sidious lost to Mace under circumstance- namely the broken window and Mace's shatterpoint ability. A saberfight between them, on even ground, could definetly go either way.

Meanwhile, Obi-Wan vs. Maul and Anakin vs. Mace will be a win for Mace/Maul. While Obi-Wan should be able to defeat Maul with some degree of difficulty, Mace should be capable of overwhelming Anakin due to his Vaapad being perfect against an opponent like enraged Anakin. Mace beats him while Obi-Wan simultaneously beats Maul; Obi-Wan vs. Mace, and Mace wins.

If it's suited Vader, Mace and Maul win in every possible matchup.

I think people are really underrating OT suited Vader here, who Lucas himself has said is approx 80% of Sidious in power.

now Vaders no slouch in the lightsaber department.. if im correct hes incorporated all 7 forms into his lightsaber technique. (note he didnt use that advanced a style against Luke though).

and being 80% of Sidious whats to stop him dominating Mace with the Force?? I personally think Vaders the strong link here, Force wise, and Mace saber wise. So the fight depends on those 2..

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Also note that Sidious lost to Mace under circumstance- namely the broken window and Mace's shatterpoint ability.A broken window has what to do with Mace kicking Palpatine in the face and knocking him on his ass? And Mace's shatterpoint isn't "circumstance"; it's an innate ability that is always a factor, and as much a part of his combat prowess as his arms.

Um... Vader Force-pwns Maul into a pulp with impunity, then helps Kenobi kill Mace.

Originally posted by Faunus \]
A broken window has what to do with Mace kicking Palpatine in the face and knocking him on his ass? And Mace's shatterpoint isn't "circumstance"; it's an innate ability that is always a factor, and as much a part of his combat prowess as his arms.

Of course, the window was a circumstance due to the simple fact that if it wasn't broken, the lightsaber wouldn't have fell out of Sidious' grasp with no hopes of being retrieved; so logically, it was very possible that if the lightsaber was thrown away in an enclosed space, Sidious could have retrieved it using a mixture of telekinesis and his speed.

However, since Obi-Wan is a lightsider, Vaapad wouldn't be nearly as effective against him as it was against Sidious; it'd merely be a lightsaber form. Mace > Obi-Wan; but Obi-Wan is relatively close to him due to his defensive capability and tactical mastery.

Originally posted by Faunus \]
Um... Vader Force-pwns Maul into a pulp with impunity, then helps Kenobi kill Mace.

But then again, Maul would be capable of defeating Vader in sabers, or at least definetly matching him; he was very close to defeating Vader in their duel, you know, and a resurrected Maul was, potentially, weaker than his original self.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy




But then again, Maul would be capable of defeating Vader in sabers, or at least definetly matching him; he was very close to defeating Vader in their duel, you know, and a resurrected Maul was, potentially, weaker than his original self. You seem to forget that vader has yet to unleash a force attack that would have crushed maul in that duel.

The people who are saying Vader's 80% of Sidious seem to be forgetting Mace beat the crap out of that 100%. Mace wouldn't take very long defeating Vader, if that's the case, while Kenobi would take much longer with his opponent.

If it's Maul against Vader and Mace against Kenobi, the other pair wins.
It ultimately depends on who takes on who.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Well... to be honest, I think that depending on the matchup, it could go either way. Anyways, just to clarify before I go on; Maul is weaker than both Obi-Wan and Anakin, while Mace is stronger than either of them.

If the matchup is Obi-Wan vs. Mace and Anakin vs. Maul, I'm inclinded to say that Obi/Anakin should take a win. Obi-Wan, being a master of the form best at keeping the user alive and also being possibly the most cunning Jedi in the Order, should be able to fend off Mace for a certain while- Mace's Vaapad won't perform to its full extent, because it requires the opponent to be a darksider in order to unleash its full potential. However, Anakin vs. Maul should be faster; Anakin will be able to defeat Maul while Obi-Wan is probably still fending off Mace. Anakin and Obi-Wan doubleteam Mace, and beat him.

Also note that Sidious lost to Mace under circumstance- namely the broken window and Mace's shatterpoint ability. A saberfight between them, on even ground, could definetly go either way.

Meanwhile, Obi-Wan vs. Maul and Anakin vs. Mace will be a win for Mace/Maul. While Obi-Wan should be able to defeat Maul with some degree of difficulty, Mace should be capable of overwhelming Anakin due to his Vaapad being perfect against an opponent like enraged Anakin. Mace beats him while Obi-Wan simultaneously beats Maul; Obi-Wan vs. Mace, and Mace wins.

If it's suited Vader, Mace and Maul win in every possible matchup.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
I completely agree.
And I mean agree with every word of it.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Well... to be honest, I think that depending on the matchup, it could go either way. Anyways, just to clarify before I go on; Maul is weaker than both Obi-Wan and Anakin, while Mace is stronger than either of them.

If the matchup is Obi-Wan vs. Mace and Anakin vs. Maul, I'm inclinded to say that Obi/Anakin should take a win. Obi-Wan, being a master of the form best at keeping the user alive and also being possibly the most cunning Jedi in the Order, should be able to fend off Mace for a certain while- Mace's Vaapad won't perform to its full extent, because it requires the opponent to be a darksider in order to unleash its full potential. However, Anakin vs. Maul should be faster; Anakin will be able to defeat Maul while Obi-Wan is probably still fending off Mace. Anakin and Obi-Wan doubleteam Mace, and beat him.


Meanwhile, Obi-Wan vs. Maul and Anakin vs. Mace will be a win for Mace/Maul. While Obi-Wan should be able to defeat Maul with some degree of difficulty, Mace should be capable of overwhelming Anakin due to his Vaapad being perfect against an opponent like enraged Anakin. Mace beats him while Obi-Wan simultaneously beats Maul; Obi-Wan vs. Mace, and Mace wins.

Blasphemy I said this first Though you did go a little more in depth

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Well... to be honest, I think that depending on the matchup, it could go either way. Anyways, just to clarify before I go on; Maul is weaker than both Obi-Wan and Anakin, while Mace is stronger than either of them.

If the matchup is Obi-Wan vs. Mace and Anakin vs. Maul, I'm inclinded to say that Obi/Anakin should take a win. Obi-Wan, being a master of the form best at keeping the user alive and also being possibly the most cunning Jedi in the Order, should be able to fend off Mace for a certain while- Mace's Vaapad won't perform to its full extent, because it requires the opponent to be a darksider in order to unleash its full potential. However, Anakin vs. Maul should be faster; Anakin will be able to defeat Maul while Obi-Wan is probably still fending off Mace. Anakin and Obi-Wan doubleteam Mace, and beat him.

Also note that Sidious lost to Mace under circumstance- namely the broken window and Mace's shatterpoint ability. A saberfight between them, on even ground, could definetly go either way.

Meanwhile, Obi-Wan vs. Maul and Anakin vs. Mace will be a win for Mace/Maul. While Obi-Wan should be able to defeat Maul with some degree of difficulty, Mace should be capable of overwhelming Anakin due to his Vaapad being perfect against an opponent like enraged Anakin. Mace beats him while Obi-Wan simultaneously beats Maul; Obi-Wan vs. Mace, and Mace wins.

If it's suited Vader, Mace and Maul win in every possible matchup. The only real problem in this whole thing, is the assumption that Anakin is always enraged in a battle.

Originally posted by Lord Saboteur
The only real problem in this whole thing, is the assumption that Anakin is always enraged in a battle.

Very true.
Though that uually seems to be the case.

Originally posted by Darth Maliko
Very true.
Though that uually seems to be the case. Like what, 60% of the time, at most?

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy

If it's suited Vader, Mace and Maul win in every possible matchup.

well im personally of the opinion that suited Vader from the OT is a more formidable opponent than his younger hot headed self, who even though had much more raw power and potential, but had no where near the saber skills(technical) or control with the Force.

Originally posted by Lt. Valerian
The people who are saying Vader's 80% of Sidious seem to be forgetting Mace beat the crap out of that 100%. Mace wouldn't take very long defeating Vader, if that's the case, while Kenobi would take much longer with his opponent.


well actually he was 80% of OT Sidious, who had become even More Powerful since ROTS.. so when comparing OT Vader to ROTS Sidious the % is considerably more than 80(in Force Powers at least).

and Mace only Overpowered Sidious in the Lightsaber duel due to Vapaad feeding off his darkside power. However According to the novel he culdnt handle Sidious's Lightning. it was "beyond Vapaad.."

sweet. you can overload vapaad. that is handy

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
sweet. you can overload vapaad. that is handy

If that were the case wouldn't WIndu's brain've imploded when he fought Pope-atine?

hehe that would have been fun to watch.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
hehe that would have been fun to watch.

Windu's brain imploding or Smauel L. Jackson duelling the Pope?

Heres some quotes from ROTS novel about how well Mace's Vapaad handled Sids lightning.. he started off ok :

"he had time only to slip back into Vapaad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed towards him.
Because Vapaad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him.
And the circuit completed itself:the lightning reflected back to its source."

so upto this point its like... Yeah Vapaad rules. Mace rules. Mace can deflect back Sids lightning. Mace can take Sids he can take anyone. Only probalem is it gets worse for him after that..

"Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blisstering energy that poured from his hands only intensified.
He fed the power with his pain."

Yeah but so what? Sid power is increasing, but Vapaad can take it right? Vapaad Rules! Wrong as we see in the next part..

"..."You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vapaad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade."

What beyond Vapaad. no way Vapaad rules. no darksider can overpower Vapaad! and how can Mace have no strength left to fight against his own blade?? that doesnt make sense.. Mace is super strong.. he has shtterpoint... he never gets weak! he never gets tired.. cause hes Mace.

"Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone."Anakin he's too strong for me---"

WTF??? did Mace just admit Sidious is too strong for him?? did Mace practically just beg Anakin for help??!! no way! Mace never needs Anakin. Mace rules! Mace has Vapaad! no one else can even compare.. Mace destroys Sidious. we all saw it.. he beats the crap out of him!! thats either a typo, or Michael Stover doesnt have a clue what the f*** hes going on about!

neway, when Anakin intervenes the fight ends with this..

"Palpatine roared back to his feet and lightning speared from the Sith Lord's hands and without his blade to catch it, the power of Palpatine's hate struck him full-on."

What's Stover going on about now?! Mace has Vapaad. he doesnt need his blade to catch it!! he can catch it and handle easily with Vapaads superconducting loop, just like it does to any kind of darkside attack.. everyone knows this! Mace has Vapaad! he rules! we saw it in the film! Stover is obviously just a Mace hating, Sith loving FanBoy!

Hey but wait.. wasnt it Stover who wrote Shatterpoint??? Im confused!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

and Mace only Overpowered Sidious in the Lightsaber duel due to Vapaad feeding off his darkside power. However According to the novel he culdnt handle Sidious's Lightning. it was "beyond Vapaad.."

did he really actually defeat him though?...has it ever been established that it wasn't the final ruse in luring Anakin to the darkside...if Sidious had defeated Windu...which i'm sure he is more than capable of doing...then there would have been no reason for Anakin to strike Windu down and thus complete his journey to the dark side

i know this is an aside and i rarely venture into the SW forums anyway..but just thought i'd ask...it may have been discussed elsewhere but i didn't look

Originally posted by jaden101
did he really actually defeat him though?...has it ever been established that it wasn't the final ruse in luring Anakin to the darkside...if Sidious had defeated Windu...which i'm sure he is more than capable of doing...then there would have been no reason for Anakin to strike Windu down and thus complete his journey to the dark side

i know this is an aside and i rarely venture into the SW forums anyway..but just thought i'd ask...it may have been discussed elsewhere but i didn't look

I have to admit Mace won the lightsaber fight, and probably could have killed Sidious at that point if he went for the kill instead of trying to arrest him. (im talking about before Sidious started firing the lightning.)

simply because the novel gives more insight into these things..

according to the novel Sidious was more powerful, but Maces Vapaad made a superconducting loop with Sidious, putting Mace on an equal power level to Sidious. then it was just about who gets the advantage. according to the novel they were exactly equal at that point and both trying anything just to gain any slight advantage..

Mace was able to gain some sort of advantage on the balcony, then when he wins he tells Sidious "you fight like a jedi, but your no jedi.."

in other words the jedis are more tactically efficient and fight better in that regard.. or probably because they actually have more experience fighting.. Of course none of that would have been possible without Maces superconducting loop, which put Mace in Sidious's power level in the first place.