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Who will win?

I'd put Maul over Kun, (at least in sabers) as Maul could challenge Sidious even while exhausted, but I don't see Bane leaving Kun alone. Bane would fight Maul, then double team Dooku. If Dooku engages Bane first, the PT team wins. Otherwise, Bane wins.
Dooku is a genius, so I will have to vote for him.

I'd wager Maul could give Bane a very good fight himself.

Which bane is this?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'd wager Maul could give Bane a very good fight himself.

Which bane is this?

Everyone is at there peak.

Maul is insanely skilled, but he isn't powerful enough to compete with the likes of Bane and Kun - the former needs no elaboration, and the latter was described by Oss Willum as "immensely powerful" and has notable physical stature to boot. Not to mention that the combat style he used died with him, so Maul is essentially going up against an unknown fighting form.

I say Bane takes down Dooku and proceeds to help Kun decimate Maul.

Maul's combination of using Tera Kasi alongside Juyo seems a rather bit of an unknown style in itself, though. Certainly compensates...Maul'd be likely to take the fight to one of the other two immediately and could very likely give them a good go of it. As for physical strength, Dooku is pretty clearly able to fend off Grievous and Mace, so when he's empowering himself via the Force, he's no slouch with strength and resilience

I personally think that the team of Dooku and Maul would win. Dooku is probably the most skilled here and could beat both Bane and Kun. I think if the match ups went Dooku vs Bane and Maul vs Kun, Maul would be able to kill Kun and help Dooku finish Bane. If it went Maul vs Bane and Dooku vs Kun Maul should be able to hold his own long enough for Dooku to kill Kun and they double team Bane.

Senario 1:
Maul vs. Bane - Bane wins.
Dooku vs. Kun - Dooku wins.

Bane would probably kill Maul before Dooku does away with Kun, based on his domination of other saberstaff opponents and familiarity with the style, plus orbalisks. That means Dooku also dies, and team two wins 8/10.

Senario 2:

Maul vs. Kun - Maul wins.
Dooku vs. Bane - Bane wins.

I think Maul would take Kun in a close match. Meanwhile, Bane is going to overpower Dooku. I assume its going to take a while, but then again Bane could just charge in, Dooku attempt an elegant sweep across the arm or chest, Bane ignoring it and ending it in seconds...Assuming the former, Maul will rush to assist with Bane, and he eventually falls. Team one wins 6/10.

To be fair, Maul's combination of Tera Kasi with Juyo is just as unfamiliar to Bane as Jar'Kai was

I never got the impression that Bane struggled with Kas'im because of his Jar'Kai being unfamiliar. I got the impression that Jar'Kai simply allows for more options and angles and is faster than Juyo-based saberstaff combat. That and it was Kas'im's best style.

By RoT, he's able to fend off a BM amped Raskta using Jar'Kai, to the point where she has to call over for more help.

Bane was totally and completely unfamiliar with Jar'Kai, that's a huge point. Don't forget in RoT, he only needs to guard his head

"Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamiliar sequences of the two-handed fighting style."

You're right. Point conceded. Although my views on a Bane vs. Maul saber battle don't...Bane's precog and latent Force abilities at his peak are much higher than during the quoted battle in PoD.

I have some questions, was Exar Kun saber the same as the one used by Maul or could Kun change the length of the saber on either end at will?

Did Exar Kun invent the Jar'Kai style of light saber combat?

Originally posted by Kotor3
I have some questions, was Exar Kun saber the same as the one used by Maul or could Kun change the length of the saber on either end at will?

Did Exar Kun invent the Jar'Kai style of light saber combat?

Kun's lightsaber is the only one of its kind that we have seen. Unlike other double bladed lightsabers, his is hilt is the same as a normal single hilt lightsaber and he can also alter blade lengths as well.

I'm not sure if about your second question.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Kun's lightsaber is the only one of its kind that we have seen. Unlike other double bladed lightsabers, his is hilt is the same as a normal single hilt lightsaber and he can also alter blade lengths as well.

I'm not sure if about your second question.

The reason I asked is Exar Kun from what I have been reading seems to be the weak link here.

Wouldn't his weapon mixed with his style of fighting be the most dangerous?

The answer would be he didn't invent it, but followed instructions from a Holocron the Jedi Exiles left.

And he didn't invent Jar'Kai, that'd been in use since the first Schism, 25,000 years before.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The answer would be he didn't invent it, but followed instructions from a Holocron the Jedi Exiles left.

And he didn't invent Jar'Kai, that'd been in use since the first Schism, 25,000 years before.

Excuse me for asking all these questions but I want to be clear.

Was there anything special about Exar Kun's weapon and style of fighting?

It's not a problem at all.

From what we've seen, Exar's saber is different in that it's shorter and might require a style to go with it to be unique. Unfortunately we can't gauge much as he swings it a grand total of three times, two of which he's holding it with with both hands

Thank you Lightsnake for explaining.

With that being said, what exactly are people basing Maul's win over Exar Kun on?

Since Exar Kun is much stronger in the force, wouldn't he have the advantage of superior enhanced abilities?

Not precisely...Maul isn't exactly a slouch there and his blade skills are far enough to compensate for lack of force

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not precisely...Maul isn't exactly a slouch there and his blade skills are far enough to compensate for lack of force

I definitely agree there, however since every one on KMC always talk about not using opinions I want to know are we basing Maul's win on any evidence that he is superior to Kun in saber combat?

During Kun's time at his peak isn't true that he could not be beaten in saber combat?

He was Ulic's equal with a saber, exactly. Maul, however, has been conditioned as a living weapon physically and, in moments, outmatched the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy (Anoon Bondara), and without much difficulty, defeated Qui-Gon Jinn...Maul's got a very impressive resume with saber abilities...frankly, I'd call him one of the best pure duelists in history

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He was Ulic's equal with a saber, exactly. Maul, however, has been conditioned as a living weapon physically and, in moments, outmatched the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy (Anoon Bondara), and without much difficulty, defeated Qui-Gon Jinn...Maul's got a very impressive resume with saber abilities...frankly, I'd call him one of the best pure duelists in history

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I thought Ulic was only Exar Kun's equal before he created his new light saber and combat style. I am not familiar with Anoon Bondara so I take your word on it.

One thing I do disagree with and I am going by what I saw in the movies, I do not know if the novel depicts differently, Maul had much difficultly with Qui-Gon Jinn.

Qui-Gon back Maul all the way down into those beams which to me saved Maul from Qui-Gon's assault and gave him time to re-cooperate.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's not a problem at all.

From what we've seen, Exar's saber is different in that it's shorter and might require a style to go with it to be unique. Unfortunately we can't gauge much as he swings it a grand total of three times, two of which he's holding it with with both hands Yea, from every thing I've read, Kun's double bladed was different in that the handle was only as long as a regular hilt, whereas Maul's was obviously as long as two hilts put together, if not slightly longer. Kun was said to have to be more skilled with the saber due to safety precautions. I think i read that on the OS before they revamped the site and modified people's profiles.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok, I see where you are coming from. I thought Ulic was only Exar Kun's equal before he created his new light saber and combat style. I am not familiar with Anoon Bondara so I take your word on it.

One thing I do disagree with and I am going by what I saw in the movies, I do not know if the novel depicts differently, Maul had much difficultly with Qui-Gon Jinn.

Qui-Gon back Maul all the way down into those beams which to me saved Maul from Qui-Gon's assault and gave him time to re-cooperate.
Even that wouldn't have bested Maul...Qui-Gon, Obi-wan feels, is the one exhausted and Maul is simply younger, stronger and faster...and all around better. Divided, Maul would have killed either of them

Anoon Bondara was the Jedi Battlemaster before Cin Drallig, btw...he's described as having saber skills second to none in the Order so in sheer bladework, he was something

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Even that wouldn't have bested Maul...Qui-Gon, Obi-wan feels, is the one exhausted and Maul is simply younger, stronger and faster...and all around better. Divided, Maul would have killed either of them

Anoon Bondara was the Jedi Battlemaster before Cin Drallig, btw...he's described as having saber skills second to none in the Order so in sheer bladework, he was something

Makes sense, on a personal note, the way Qui-Gon Jinn went out was poorly done. They could have given him a better death then a simple hit to the face and stomach.

That's Maul, actually...efficient. When he goes for something, it's a clean, quick death in battle. Obi-wan was an exception. Palpatine even noted it was an anomaly and stupid move for him

Was that in the novel?

In one of the Episode 1 journals

Originally posted by Lightsnake
To be fair, Maul's combination of Tera Kasi with Juyo is just as unfamiliar to Bane as Jar'Kai was

Just as familiar? Kas'im had mastered all seven forms of the lightsaber, where he was described as possessing millions of moves and combinations at his command, all of which Bane was completely unfamiliar with. Maul, however, possesses mastery of a form that Bane has complete familiarity with, and a complementary, single form of unarmed combat that Bane doesn't. There's no comparison. What Bane was unfamiliar with against Kas'im encompassed all there was to the weapon. With Maul, all he's unfamiliar with is a part of Maul's overall fighting style, not the whole, that encompassed the moves that make up a single style of combat. I'm sorry but the comparison isn't close.

As for the battle, don't even try to imply that Maul stands a chance.

Technically speaking, Bane has complete familiarity with Maul's saber form, possesses a form of lightsaber that Maul can't be said to be familiar with (the hooked lightsaber, that attacks subtly at different angles than normal lightsabers do, which can prove to be unimaginably deadly, as was shown against Farfalla, where it was stated that Bane's attack would have slipped right past Farfalla's defences and dismembered his arm at the smallest of angles), and combined with his armour, fights in the most unorthodox method observed in the entire mythos (he can block attacks with his limbs, use his entire body as a weapon without fear of being harmed, and can focus almost fully on his offence, having to worry little for his defence, only having to protect his head).

Physically, Bane was described as a mountain of muscle, and receives the added benefits of the orbalisks constantly pumping his body with substantial amounts of adrenaline.

As far as force power stands (which both Kas'im and Yoda, arguably the two greatest authorities on saber combat in the entire mythos, considered the by far most significant attribute in lightsaber combat, and the real determining factor in a lightsaber confrontation), it can't be put into words how badly Bane outclasses him, and as such, he'll have a far greater capacity for using the Force to empower his speed and strength and reflexes etc. than Maul ever would.

Lastly, he receives the added benefits of the orbalisk armour, which gives his entire body, with the exception of his head, absolute invulnerability in the context of a lightsaber fight. He only has to protect one area of his entire body, and it just so happens to be the smallest one.

Maul gets curbstomped, don't ever try to argue otherwise.

Your point collapses when you realizes Maul combined Tera Kasi with Juyo for his own little style, Nebby.

Your post isn't worth anything more than that.

...What? I addressed that quite clearly. As unfamiliar to Bane as it may have been, it still only represented an addition to Maul's form (Bane was perfectly familiar with the other aspect), and only encompassed the moves that would make up a single style of combat, whereas the entirety of Kas'im's style was unfamiliar to Bane, and it encompassed the moves and sequences of all seven styles.

No, you didn't. You did your usual 'suck Bane's cock' bullshit and failed to accept any valid point.
Newsflash, Nebby. If it's that simple, stop with the 'OMGKUNHASTEHUNIQUE' bullshit when nothing indicates it. Nothing indicates Bane is familiar with Tera Kasi. And Jar'Kai is a variation of FORM IV as PoD kindly points out. Maul developed his own style using a martial art Bane...has no experience with and, oh, yes, is a master of all the forms of saber combat and has speed to boot.

Can you demonstrate how Maul integrated Teras Kasi into his lightsaber style, and how a form based on hand-to-hand combat would affect the mechanics of a duel? Also, show where Maul was stated to have mastered "all" the forms of lightsaber combat - I'm familiar with him being said to have been a "high-level master of multiple forms" as a prerequisite for mastering Juyo.

And please provide the quote that notes Jar'Kai to be a derivative of Ataru, and then show me where it is stated that Jar'Kai is the only method of dual-bladed fighting. We're discussing a master of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, someone stated to have perfected each to its highest degree, so it's more than a little ridiculous to suggest he wouldn't be able to apply any of those forms with two lightsabers.

I dont' have PoD, so I'm relying on the passages that I remember or that you or Nebaris can provide. But so far, this is a poor showing from you, Lightsnake.

Originally posted by Faunus
Can you demonstrate how Maul integrated Teras Kasi into his lightsaber style, and how a form based on hand-to-hand combat would affect the mechanics of a duel? Also, show where Maul was stated to have mastered "all" the forms of lightsaber combat - I'm familiar with him being said to have been a "high-level master of multiple forms" as a prerequisite for mastering Juyo.I'm pretty sure the Episode one jorunal had Palpatine teaching him how to totally master saber combat. Moreover, Tera Kasi is a martial art, which Maul is a master of, and like Kit, he integrates it to his general style.



Sure, from PoD:
Bane hesitated. Few of the students at the Academy had even attempted to use two sabers at once. The Blademaster had always discouraged them from this variation of the fourth form, saying it was inherently flawed. Now, as he saw the cruel and cunning expression on his enemy's face, Bane understood the real truth.
I'm not sure if this is Karpyshyn getting it totally wrong, but this is the only source I have to go on for it.
And IS there any other method of dual saber fighting? I've never really heard of one...It's always just 'Jar'Kai' as its own form.



This is mostly me indulging my supreme irritation with Nebaris thus far...if it's poor, my apologies.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm pretty sure the Episode one jorunal had Palpatine teaching him how to totally master saber combat.Quote? Ulic, Exar, and that guy from RoDV were all stated to be "master swordsman" (or in the case of the latter, a "master of the sword", but we don't take that to mean they knew every form.
Kit didn't know Teras Kasi, to my knowledge. He knew Shii-Cho (Form I), and applied that to his unarmed style.
Jar'Kai is stated as a form of dual-bladed combat, but it's never to my knowledge known as double-bladed combat itself.

Originally posted by Faunus
Quote? Ulic, Exar, and that guy from RoDV were all stated to be "master swordsman" (or in the case of the latter, a "master of the sword", but we don't take that to mean they knew every form.
I think the journal was written prior to saber forms being conceived of. At the least, we do know he knows a good deal of high level ones.

Don't have the exact quotes at hand right now, though...I'll look later

You're right here, actually, he's a martial artist, not a TK user. Anoon Bondara, however, in Shadow HUnter, I think, was stated to use it coupled with his saber technique

'dual' right, sorry. Still, unless Karpyshyn is wrong again..