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I don't know why you don't give Revan credit. He's stronger than every other Jedi and Sith there is.

This is in the wrong part of the Forum.

Ever hear of Darth Sidious?

Not my sock, I promise. Although he was absolutely right.

Darth bane is the strongest.

Darth Bandon is the strongest. He is stronger than every jedi there ever was. : /

Originally posted by truejedi
Darth Bandon is the strongest. He is stronger than every jedi there ever was. : /

QFT QFP

nah jar jar binks solos everyone the sheer amount of accident prone in this gungan is win

I think Luke ultimately becomes the strongest.

Was Luke ever identified as the heart of the Force?

where was revan id'd as the heart of the force by a credible source? (kreia doesn't count)

This is one instance in which she is not unduly biased.

You know I looked up the dialog.tlk file for KoToR 2 and Obsidian's staff left comments on each dialog line, explaining why the characters were saying what.

It said nothing about it Kreia lying on that line. All it said was that she was firm on her words and that she didn't want to compare him to the Exile. Specifically:

"A teacher not wanting to be forced to compare two of her greatest students."

The problem with the line is that its super ambiguous.

wasnt jacen the heart of the force for a few minutes? and luke has been said to center himself in the heart of the force. EWWW luke centered himself in revan. also, similar things have been said about Kenobi.

I SENSE A TERRIBLE SLASHFIC IN THE WORKS

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I SENSE A TERRIBLE SLASHFIC IN THE WORKS

Stop posting your personal fetishes on the interwebs.

YOUR NOT THE BOSS OF ME

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Ever hear of Darth Sidious?


Why do you think Darth Sidious is stronger? What has he really done. All I have seen from sidious is the fact that he is very cunning but not a great weilder of a saber nor of his skills as a force user. He uses pawns to do his biding thats why he seeks the strongest force users around. Such as anakin.

Originally posted by redvain Why do you think Darth Sidious is stronger? What has he really done. All I have seen from sidious is the fact that he is very cunning but not a great weilder of a saber nor of his skills as a force user. He uses pawns to do his biding thats why he seeks the strongest force users around. Such as anakin.
He is powerful and cunning. The ROTS Novelization gives him the status of the most powerful Sith Lord in history. And he displays impressive feats in DE. His ability to generate Force Storms are noteworthy. However, this particular force power is not unique to him.

Despite of his capabilities, he is not perfect and invincible. What I find ironic is that he could not outclass the finest swordsmen of his time: Yoda and Mace (in a lightsaber duel).

And he looses to DE Luke who is aided by BM of his sister and potential of her unborn child.

Also, as far as his accomplishments are concerned, you are right that without support of powerful apprentices, he would not have succeeded in destroying the Republic.

Marka Ragnos is also called "the most powerful of the most powerful" of the Dark Lords. Ancient Sith could create and wear gauntlets that prevented anything from touching them without consent, blast enemies to dust with Sith spells, drain entire planets with the Force, instakill Jedi enemies, create zombie armies, and much, MUCH more. The Ancient Sith defeated Darth Sidious and brought him to the brink of death. Kreia, who gave accurate history as far as the ancient Sith are concerned, said the Jedi/Sith of her day (yes that means Revan) would be as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the ancient Lords. It's referenced in numerous sources, in-universe and out, clear from everything we see of them in TOTJ, clear from all the talk about the knowledge and secrets of the ancient Sith being lost (e.g. the secrets of cheating death)... the ancient Sith Lords OWNED Revan and Palpatine.

Originally posted by AncientSithLord
Marka Ragnos is also called "the most powerful of the most powerful" of the Dark Lords. Ancient Sith could create and wear gauntlets that prevented anything from touching them without consent, blast enemies to dust with Sith spells, drain entire planets with the Force, instakill Jedi enemies, create zombie armies, and much, MUCH more. The Ancient Sith defeated Darth Sidious and brought him to the brink of death. Kreia, who gave accurate history as far as the ancient Sith are concerned, said the Jedi/Sith of her day (yes that means Revan) would be as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the ancient Lords. It's referenced in numerous sources, in-universe and out, clear from everything we see of them in TOTJ, clear from all the talk about the knowledge and secrets of the ancient Sith being lost (e.g. the secrets of cheating death)... the ancient Sith Lords OWNED Revan and Palpatine. Wow, there is just so much wrong with this....

When did the ancient sith ever defeat Darth Sidious? And Marka calling himself "the most powerful of the most powerful" (most likely refering to his time) does not make him right. Sidious was able to do what just about every ancient sith could do and more.

Sidious is referred to repeatedly (by canon sources, and not just by ASL) as the most powerful Sith Lord in the history of the galaxy. That one is pretty easy.

Check The Emperor's Pawns. Darth Sidious got his butt kicked so hard by the ancient Sith he had to recover in a bacta tank for a long, long time. His flesh decayed, and his Hands rushed to save his life, and even went off to get a clone from Byss, expecting Sidious' death.

Why? Sidious asked the ancient Sith for more power and knowledge of the dark side. (Why if he was anywhere near as powerful as them?) They weren't too happy about that. We see them next in DE; they were certainly quite derisive of Sidious.

Marka Ragnos being "the most powerful of the most powerful" is actually an OOU quote. As you say, it could be interpreted as meaning of his time. Then again, the quotes regarding Palpatine can be interpreted as meaning political power; Dan Wallace, when defending this, talked about Sidious' political accomplishments, not how his Force power exceeded that of the ancient Sith. And of course, sometimes quotes can just be incorrect; one source, for instance, says it was Ragnos who appeared to crown Kun and Qel-Droma.

I also will mention Palpatine is usually referred to as the most powerful of his time, or the most powerful of the modern incarnation of the Sith (the Star Wars databank, and of course the movie novelizations, often, if not usually, refer to the Sith as the modern incarnation of the Sith), not that he surpassed the ancient Lords. Just see what the ancient Sith could do with the Force. Compare it to Palpatine. For example, if Palpatine had just one of the abilities of the ancient Sith, he could have been beheaded by Yoda... and survived through Sith magic. Of course if he had the power of the ancient Sith he would never have lost against Yoda, seeing as he would have just used a Sith spell to blast his enemy into dust.

Numerous EU works indicate or state outright the ancient Sith were superior in terms of Force powers and combat abilities, and I'm talking both IU and OOU here.

This is terrific. Bonus points if your Sorgo.

I'm pretty sure Palpatine did once say that he anally mastered with the mummified phallus of Marka Ragnos to give him strength.

"Long, long time?"

"Yes; Palpatine was assaulted by the ghosts of several Dark Lords on Korriban. The fact that he is the single most powerful dark side magus ever documented does not mean he is invulnerable. If a squadron of heavy cruisers sinks a battleship, does that prove that each individual cruiser is the better of the battleship?" -- Publius, SDN.



...The Dark Empire Sourcebook and other sources go into detail how the Emperor attempted to gain dominion over all existing sources of Force-related information. That he wanted to obtain knowledge from the ancient Sith in no way indicates that they are more powerful than he was.

You want to argue this, take it up with my essay on the subject. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant to the conclusion unless backed up by sources.