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Sabers only.

mara

lols.

Maybe...... I don't know...... Tie?

Since you said "sabers only" I'm assuming no Shatterpoint is allowed? I am also assuming they won't be fighting in a place where the battlefield can be exploited either way (no wet ledges to slip on, etc.)?

Because with those stipulations taken into consideration, I'd go with a draw. If I had to pick a victor, I guess I'd side with Palpatine. As a relatively old man, he and Mace were on equal ground (slight edge to Mace) - but with a new/younger clone body, I think he would give Mace a much better fight (though it's also likely that Vaapad could compensate for that difference.)

Coin toss.

Yeah, that Vapaad thing pretty much put them in a fight that the ROTS novelization stated would go on forever.

Shatterpoint lent Mace the deciding edge. Without it, we have ourselves a draw. I don't know if Sidious improved much with a saber between ROTS and DE, though he did improve much in the force.

Why wouldn't Shatterpoint be available to Mace?

Sabers only.

Originally posted by truejedi
Shatterpoint lent Mace the deciding edge. Without it, we have ourselves a draw. I don't know if Sidious improved much with a saber between ROTS and DE, though he did improve much in the force.
Palpatine's shatterpoint led back to Anakin. It really didn't help him. However, it is true that they were at an "impasse" at least until Mace cut the window forcing Palpatine to convert some of his "Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip". This was how Mace won the lightsaber portion of the duel.

Originally posted by ares834
until Mace cut the window forcing Palpatine to convert some of his "Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip". This was how Mace won the lightsaber portion of the duel. Could that not also be viewed as Shatterpoint? I have always looked at it as such.

Is Shatterpoint not a natural ability, seperate from the Force?

I was under the impression that the "sabers" stipulation meant that the duelists were restricted from employing offensive Force manuevers or anything directly affecting the combatant, that natural Force traits were allowed. After all, Jedi need there Jedi reflexes and pre-cog to duel. Wouldn't Shatterpoint not fall under that stipulation? If it did, why then is Vapaad allowed as it involves a heavy aspect of the Force?

Originally posted by Galan007
Could that not also be viewed as Shatterpoint? I have always looked at it as such.
"Feeling for its shatterpoint.

He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the now... And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.

The chosen one was here.

Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish."
Nothing to suggest it is.

Though that part isn't canon anyway, i don't think, since Anakin wasn't standing in the doorway yet. He came in after Sidious was disarmed.

Also, that is the part that has mace cutting sidious's saber in half, instead of kicking it out of his hand.

Originally posted by truejedi
Though that part isn't canon anyway, i don't think, since Anakin wasn't standing in the doorway yet. He came in after Sidious was disarmed.

Also, that is the part that has mace cutting sidious's saber in half, instead of kicking it out of his hand.
True not to mention immediately after this Palps tries to force push Mace out the window which does not happen in the movie.

Originally posted by ares834
"Feeling for its shatterpoint.

He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the now... And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.

The chosen one was here.

Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish."
Nothing to suggest it is. I know the quote. But the fact that Mace "angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge" in order to exploit the weakness(es) he knew Sidious would have there (rain, wind, slippery surface, etc), has always made me think Shatterpoint. /shrug

Galan, I like you. You are like me in that you can agree to disagree. Its a highly unusual, quite valuable thing on this board.

Heh, thanks.

I try not to self-interpret much, but sometimes I just can't help it.

Personally I think shatterpoint should be as usable in duels as, say, force precog. It's a matter of perception, it's not anything like lightning.

Originally posted by Q99
Personally I think shatterpoint should be as usable in duels as, say, force precog. It's a matter of perception, it's not anything like lightning.

LOLSHIT

The purpose of this thread was to see if Sidious improved in saber-combat between DE and ROTS. Also to see if you think DE Luke < Mace.

Sidious likely improved, but with a galaxy under his control, and minions like Vader, the Hands, the Royal and Senate Guards, and the Inquisitorious all serving him--much of the saber work would be left to them. Plus he seems to have spent most of his time perfecting his knowledge of the Dark Side. In TFU and RotJ, he doesn't use a saber once, relying on his Lightning and TK. There's a comic too, I believe that he fries a bunch of rebellious Imperials instead of slicing them.

In strict sabers, no shatterpoint or Lightning, I'd give the match to the battle-hardened Mace. His saber skills, already best-of-the-best, were honed by three years of war.

Not to mention that just because Mace has shatterpoint, doesn't mean that there is going to a shatterpoint. It took him a while to pinpoint Anakin (Anakin had to be present it seems), and with no extenuating variable in this hypothetical round, his shatterpoint would have little purpose (at least for us).

My first thought was Sidious pwns, but after reading other comments and thinking more about it I'm not so sure. Either way, I think it'd be very close.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
My first thought was Sidious pwns, but after reading other comments and thinking more about it I'm not so sure. Either way, I think it'd be very close. Vaapad is an extremely difficult technique for anyone to get around, let alone someone as uber-evil as DE Palps.

Come to think of it, Palpatine's knowledge/power of the dark side increased substantially between RotS and DE. That said, it's also safe to assume that he became even more dark/evil, by proxy. If so, then those emotions would only serve to empower Mace/Vaapad much more than in their last battle.

That's something I never thought to factor in. So yeah, Mace ftw.

Master Windu seems to be gimped here..

so possible draw