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if vader and dooku just so happen to loose their lightsabers and face off against each other....Who would win?

Too close to call for me, but im thinkin vader by a hair.

A l'il lightnin' and oops-e-daisy.

He's tanked worse lightening before hasn't he (aka galan)?

his suit wud definitly hinder him of course. But is Vader stronger than dooku in the force by this time?

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson014
He's tanked worse lightening before hasn't he (aka galan)?
Yep. Vader wins this IMO.

Does someone have the passage from TFU with their fight scene?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. That book isn't very well written. It reads more like a script than a story. And shits over a few established facts/beliefs. A.) Lightning does nothing to Vader unless it's the Emperor's own "weak" lightning. B.) A slash to his throat doesn't hurt him. C.) Vader can laugh.

F*ck it. Vader wins against Dooku just because of this.

yeah, Vader's ablities in the force are his strong-point, while DOoku's saber was his.

The Dark Lord was already moving. The red blade of his lightsaber flared into life, casting bloody shadows across the room. There was no discussion. He offered no threats. It was clear he intended only to complete what he had failed to finish on Corellia. The apprentice knew exactly what to expect. They had dueled many times before. He had learned how to fight at the hands of the man in the black suit-the man whose face had been forever hidden from him. He knew the intimacies of his refined version of Djem So, a fighting style that incorporated elements of Ataru, Soresu, and Makashi. He had fended off many wild, slashing attacks that would have overwhelmed even an extraordinary Jedi Knight. He had borne the brunt of many psychological battles.
He thought he was ready-and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise.
A simple double stroke, up and then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrists and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides, hoping to keep him off his guard. For a moment, it worked.
Then the apprentice straightened and, with a sweep of his left arm, blew the missiles away. He blocked a savage slash that would have cut him in two and another that would have lifted his head clean from his shoulders. Ducking low, he stabbed for his Master's belly then flicked the tip of his lightsaber upward, hoping to catch the chin of Darth Vader's helmet and spear him through the throat. The red lightsaber blocked the blow, but only barely. They parted for a moment to assess the brief exchange and circled each other warily.
The apprentice understood that, until this moment, they had never truly fought as equals. His Master had either held back, or he himself had capitulated. Now, for the first time, they would see each other's true potential. Where Darth Vader was strong and relentless, he was fast and sly. And there were ways to fight that didn't involve lightsabers. Loose objects, accelerated to killing speeds by the Force, became projectiles that converged from all directions. Invisible fists clutched for throats or punched with the power of pile drivers. Floors tipped underfoot; severed beams stabbed like javelins; overloaded circuits exploded.
"You are weak," the apprentice said as his former Master launched a second series of bone-crushing blows, each one of which he blocked with elegant precision.
Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.
The apprentice vowed not to give him one. He whirled and danced around his Master's defenses, testing them to their limits.
"You thought I was dead," he said, letting that small triumph spur his determination to new heights. Their lightsabers danced, blurring and sweeping and shedding sparks in a way that would have been beautiful had their intent not been so deadly. The apprentice felt the wild, joyous energies of the dark side flowing through him and he resisted its call, seeking a better way to finish the job.
They fought back and forth across the observation dome.
"I understand you now," he said, still trying to goad his former Master into breaking his concentration. "You killed my father and kidnapped me from Kashyyyk, not just to be your apprentice, but to be a son to you. Was that how your father treated you?"
The intensity of Darth Vader's attack redoubled. "I have no father."
The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near, but he felt no pain. He, on the other hand, had definitely struck a nerve.
Glancing over Darth Vader's shoulder, he saw the Emperor watching the duel, his face screwed up in malevolent delight. And the apprentice understood. A better way to kill. . .
Not out of hatred. Whatever lay beneath that black mask, it wasn't beauty or happiness. Only ugliness and pain would hide itself away for so long. Hatred would not be enough to turn the tables on Darth Vader.
Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath.
"I don't need to hate you in order to beat you," he gasped. "That's something I will teach you now."
"You can teach me nothing," Darth Vader's leaden voice intoned. One black glove clenched, and for a moment the apprentice's throat closed tight.
He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room.
For all his size and occasional clumsiness, the Dark Lord was sure on his feet. He landed upright and launched himself back into the fray.
"I don't hate you," the apprentice went on, blocking him blow for blow. "I pity you." With a new strength of his own, he forced Darth Vader onto his back foot. "You destroyed who I was and made me as I am now, but this wasn't your idea. It was the Emperor's, and it's what he's already done to you." A strip of Darth Vader's cape fluttered away, smoking. The two came closer together until they were face-to-mask. The apprentice stared directly into the black eye guards of his former Master. "You are his creature just as I was yours-but you've never had the strength to rebel. That's why I pity you. I will no longer serve a monster, and if I have my way I'll make sure you don't, either."
Vader tried to pull away, but the apprentice followed him, keeping him on the back foot.
"I will kill you," he said, "to set you free."
The lightsabers flashed again-and it was the apprentice who found the chink in the armor that both of them had been waiting for. Vader's lightsaber moved too slowly to block a blow to his chest, allowing the apprentice's blade to slash deeply across his armored throat. Vader staggered backward, gloved hand upraised to the smoking wound.
There was no blood. Instead of pressing the attack, the apprentice stood his ground. Despite himself, he was as surprised as his former Master clearly was.
For a moment, the only sounds were the twin humming of the lightsabers and the wheezing of Darth Vader's respirator.
Then the Dark Lord laughed.
It was an awful sound, empty of humor and full of mockery. In it, the apprentice heard a decade and a half of torture and abuse.
Anger flared. He lunged forward. His former Master barely blocked the blow. A second scored a deep wound across his black-clad shoulder. A third stabbed deep into his thigh.
Darth Vader reeled backward, servos whining in his injured limbs and lightsaber shaking.
The apprentice gripped his lightsaber in both hands and held himself back. Anger was familiar and powerful; it also clouded his eyes when he most needed to see clearly.
Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however, was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis. The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued until, with a crash, the apprentice ripped the energy field generator in the center of the room right out of the floor and hurled it at his former Master.
The generator exploded with greater force than he had expected, throwing him and everyone else to the floor. The transparisteel dome shattered. Debris rained everywhere. The sound of the explosion rang in his ears for an unnaturally long time afterward.
He was the first to his feet, striding across the rubble to where Darth Vader lay face-forward, gravely wounded and stripped of his armor in places. Flesh and machinery showed through the gaps. Finally, some real blood was flowing.
The apprentice stood over him with his lightsaber upraised and ready to strike. His former Master was trying to stand, feebly willing his massive bulk to move as it was supposed to. Servomotors whined and strained. When he rolled over, the apprentice froze.
Darth Vader's helmet had been ripped away by the blast. Beneath was the face of the man who had stolen and enslaved him, a pathetic, hairless thing covered in wrinkles and old scar tissue. Only the eyes showed the slightest signs of life: blue and full of pain, they stared up at him with undisguised weariness.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Does someone have the passage from TFU with their fight scene?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. That book isn't very well written. It reads more like a script than a story. And shits over a few established facts/beliefs. A.) Lightning does nothing to Vader unless it's the Emperor's own "weak" lightning. B.) A slash to his throat doesn't hurt him. C.) Vader can laugh.

F*ck it. Vader wins against Dooku just because of this.

Lol thats funny because i just read the ending of the force unleashed at Borders and i thought that the ending was written well.

Lightning still hurts vader (it hurts just about anyone), but i don't think he was hit with enough, or with enough intensity to damage him. I personally don't think that vader is as susceptible to lightning as we think, as he's been hit with it before and survived (contrary to what we have come to believe). Sure he could be killed by it, but so could anyone.

It said he slashed his "armored" throat. So he most likely didn't hit skin, but just sliced the armor.

I don't see why Vader isn't capable of a laugh. When he was first injured i can see him not being able to, considering his voice was just a whisper. But at the end of return of the jedi he was able to talk without the helmet for a while, and since TFU was near ROTJ his voice would have been healed enough to do a laugh. I would have payed to hear it though


Anyway Vader wins

Originally posted by TheMagicPillow
Lol thats funny because i just read the ending of the force unleashed at Borders and i thought that the ending was written well. I didn't read the end. When the climatic fight scene of a story bores me despite having a great visual in my head ala the game, then something's wrong with the writing style.

Originally posted by TheMagicPillow
Lightning still hurts vader (it hurts just about anyone), but i don't think he was hit with enough, or with enough intensity to damage him. I personally don't think that vader is as susceptible to lightning as we think, as he's been hit with it before and survived (contrary to what we have come to believe). Sure he could be killed by it, but so could anyone. Dooku f*cked Anakin's shit up with a little blast of it. Palpatine's "torture-level" blast that was used on Luke fried Vader's circuitry. What Marek must have given him wouldn't jump start my iPod.


Originally posted by TheMagicPillow
It said he slashed his "armored" throat. So he most likely didn't hit skin, but just sliced the armor.The guy gets his throat armor slashed open, his suit tested with Force-lightning, blasted with multiple barrages of Force pushes and Force-pushed missiles. His helmet comes off, his armor is wrecked, his flesh is showing, his blood is flowing. A few minutes later, a giant Force-wrecking ball of an explosion that incinerates Stormtroopers, sends the Rogue Shadow tumbling, destroys the observation room, and can bee seen from many kilometers away does... nothing to him. After all he just went through, he's standing upright and alive.

5 years later and not-Palpatine's-strongest-lightning-by-far literally guarantees his death. It's that kind of inconsistency, especially with such an iconic character like Vader, that I dislike.

Originally posted by TheMagicPillow
I don't see why Vader isn't capable of a laugh. When he was first injured i can see him not being able to, considering his voice was just a whisper. But at the end of return of the jedi he was able to talk without the helmet for a while, and since TFU was near ROTJ his voice would have been healed enough to do a laugh. I would have payed to hear it though It's not about whether his body can perform the action, it's about whether he should. Darth Vader doesn't laugh just as Count Dooku doesn't scream.

Then ofcourse with Palpatines lightning in ROTJ it may of merely been that it had a higher intensity than the one Galan used.

I feel that Dooku would as he was a master of TK and he had lightning. The only thing Vader himself has is TK but seeing as they are both TK masters they would just counteract each other.

Plus, who's lightning was stronger, Dooku's or Galen's?

Galen's imo

I agree, Galan's lightening is definitely stronger. But i do believe Vader is full on stronger with the force than doooku now.

I believe his connection to the force is way stronger, being able to choke Xizor halfway across the galaxy, WHILE holding back. He almost took down the jedi temple in Last of the jedi: Underworld in a force rage, the only thing stopping him was a wall falling revealing the hidden jedi Ferus Olin. He also used the force to disintegrate a storm trooper in Marvel Droid #7.... i dont think dooku has done anything like that. At least to my knowledge...

The only thing Dooku has in his arsenal that might be able to hinder Vader is lightning. But as was commented on above, if Vader can tank Galen's lightning, he can likely tank Dooku's as well.

(And that's IF Dooku manages to fire his lightning before Vader twitches a finger and snaps his neck/crushes his throat.)

lulwut

...

Just because your stronger in the Force doesn't mean you get a WTFwin.

.... i think he's just tryin to make the point that vader wins lol.

Not via instance neck breaking he won't.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Not via instance neck breaking he won't. Not saying that is the specific method Vader would try to use... Applying his uber TK in some way/shape/form is all I was getting at.

Dooku's perfectly capable of defending himself, and on more than one occasion I could see him winning.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien

5 years later and not-Palpatine's-strongest-lightning-by-far literally guarantees his death. It's that kind of inconsistency, especially with such an iconic character like Vader, that I dislike.

Don't you think it's possible, even probable, that Sidious increased his Force Lightning output when Vader grabbed a hold of him? I mean, yeah he was only using enough output to torture Luke, but I would think he'd increase it after being grabbed by Vader and lifted over his head, since his life was in immediate danger.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Dooku's perfectly capable of defending himself, and on more than one occasion I could see him winning. How would Dooku defend himself? Honest question. I don't see him being able to, in some way, block Vader's TK... Unless there's a showing I'm forgetting about. mmm

Originally posted by Galan007
How would Dooku defend himself? Honest question. I don't see him being able to, in some way, block Vader's TK... Unless there's a showing I'm forgetting about. mmm

In regards to blocking TK, if you watch the fight scene between Obi-Wan vs Anakin from ROTS when they cancel out each other's force push, it would be like that.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
In regards to blocking TK, if you watch the fight scene between Obi-Wan vs Anakin from ROTS when they cancel out each other's force push, it would be like that. Only if you assume that Vader and Dooku are equals in the TK department -- which imo, they certainly are not.

...Unless Dooku is also capable of utilizing his TK across galactic distances, in a very precise manner.

Originally posted by Galan007
Only if you assume that Vader and Dooku are equals in the TK department -- which imo, they certainly are not.

...Unless Dooku is also capable of utilizing his TK across galactic distances, in a very precise manner.

Are you saying that Obi-Wan was Anakin's equal in force push? I think not, the only reason that they were in that fight was because Anakins's abilities were hindered by his emotions.

^ Like you just said: in that fight, Obi-Wan and Anakin's force pushes were equal -- that's why they canceled each other out.

The same wouldn't have happened if one of them would have been definitively above the other.

Originally posted by Galan007

The same wouldn't have happened if one of them would have been definitively above the other.

Like i said, Anakin's emotions hindered his abilities, he was in a rage while Obi-Wan like always was focused so his abilties would be at his best.

Originally posted by Master_Galen
Like i said, Anakin's emotions hindered his abilities, he was in a rage while Obi-Wan like always was focused so his abilties would be at his best. ...Which doesn't change anything I said. none

Originally posted by Galan007
...Which doesn't change anything I said. none

I honestly have no idea what MG was trying to get at by saying "Anakin's emotions hindered his abilities, he was in a rage while Obi-Wan like always was focused so his abilities would be at his best." How that counters anything yous said is beyond me.

Still curious as to LL's response to my earlier post though.

Originally posted by Galan007
How would Dooku defend himself? Honest question. I don't see him being able to, in some way, block Vader's TK... Unless there's a showing I'm forgetting about. mmm Remember that scene you posted from TFU, where Vader grabs Marek's throat but Marek breaks it with a Force push? Soemthing like that.

Dooku is not some weakling in over his head.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Don't you think it's possible, even probable, that Sidious increased his Force Lightning output when Vader grabbed a hold of him? I mean, yeah he was only using enough output to torture Luke, but I would think he'd increase it after being grabbed by Vader and lifted over his head, since his life was in immediate danger. Probably he did. The novelization doesn't make mention of it increasing. And it's during that passage that another discrepancy presents itself: After having a hand chopped off, Vader is "weaker than he'd ever been." One hand.

He lost a whole arm on Mimban.

His helmet which he could only take off in his pressurized chamber was removed by Marek. Gets hit by Force Lightning. His suit and armor were torn enough to show skin and blood, he had the shit kicked out of him with Force-flicked missiles. And then gets blown away in Marek's death-blast. But he's fine.

One hand and Palpatine's self-inflicting Lightning later and Vader's dead. Palpatine's disintegrated people with his lightning before, armor and all.

Force Unleashed sucks for stuff that.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Remember that scene you posted from TFU, where Vader grabs Marek's throat but Marek breaks it with a Force push? Soemthing like that.

Dooku is not some weakling in over his head. That trick worked for Galen, but most have agreed that Galen's force power is > Dooku's. Thus Galen's ability to use the force in such a manner isn't necessarily indicative of Dooku being able to use the force in a similar fashion.. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
That trick worked for Galen, but most have agreed that Galen's force power is > Dooku's. Thus Galen's ability to use the force in such a manner isn't necessarily indicative of Dooku being able to use the force in a similar fashion.. /shrug It was a Force push. And Vader didn't get far from it. If Dooku can't replicate a Force push that Kenobi and Vader matched then WTF?

^ Or perhaps Vader was simply not exerting his full power in that scene (which is likely the case.) Hell, even when he was choking Xizor from halfway across the galaxy, he was still restraining himself.

Perhaps. Or perhaps not.

'Tis the question

dgrin

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Remember that scene you posted from TFU, where Vader grabs Marek's throat but Marek breaks it with a Force push? Soemthing like that.

Dooku is not some weakling in over his head.

Probably he did. The novelization doesn't make mention of it increasing. And it's during that passage that another discrepancy presents itself: After having a hand chopped off, Vader is "weaker than he'd ever been." One hand.

He lost a whole arm on Mimban.

His helmet which he could only take off in his pressurized chamber was removed by Marek. Gets hit by Force Lightning. His suit and armor were torn enough to show skin and blood, he had the shit kicked out of him with Force-flicked missiles. And then gets blown away in Marek's death-blast. But he's fine.

One hand and Palpatine's self-inflicting Lightning later and Vader's dead. Palpatine's disintegrated people with his lightning before, armor and all.

Force Unleashed sucks for stuff that.

Good points Lucien, except for the TFU sucks comment of course. Curious to see how they implement the story in TFU2.

What it did to pre-existing canon structure sucks. Marek's a god, Vader's invincible, and the Emperor really didn't see the end coming. Ugh.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I honestly have no idea what MG was trying to get at by saying "Anakin's emotions hindered his abilities, he was in a rage while Obi-Wan like always was focused so his abilities would be at his best." How that counters anything yous said is beyond me.

What i was trying to say was that Anakin's psyche was stopping him from performing to the best of his abilities while Obi-Wan was focused so could perform at his peak. Even then, a peak Obi-Wan still only drew in a force push battle with an Anakin that was weakened by his own mind forcing restrictions on himself.

Anakin wasn't "weakened" in the traditional sense. He certainly wasn't all Zoned up, but he wasn't weakened. He was drawing on the Dark Side. It's known fact that he just gets stronger the longer a fight lasts. His psyche was preventing him from thinking clearly or planning ahead, like Kenobi was doing.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Anakin wasn't "weakened" in the traditional sense. He certainly wasn't all Zoned up, but he wasn't weakened. He was drawing on the Dark Side. It's known fact that he just gets stronger the longer a fight lasts. His psyche was preventing him from thinking clearly or planning ahead, like Kenobi was doing.

It doesn't really matter, in the end it was his psyche that lost him the battle, which is what i was trying to say in the first place, but thanks Lucien cos your statement only proves that further.