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To make it interesting, Bane has his orbalisk armor and Jaina knows the Shatterpoint technique (see LoTF "Invincible". Who wins? The Mando trained Jedi who fought in the YV War and defeated Caedus or one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history?

How does that make things interesting? Bane would tear her shit to pieces even without the armor, with it is just overkill. He wouldn't even need to draw his lightsaber.

Its straight up force rape

Originally posted by Pwned
Its straight up force rape

I wouldn't be surprised if it were literal.

This might be a fairer match if it were PoD Bane.

Originally posted by KMCmember
I wouldn't be surprised if it were literal.

Prolly would be, Jainas failure cant stop his epicness

Make this PoD bane and we have something. RoT with Orbalisks... poor girl.

End book Bane, at least, before that he wouldnt be nearly as powerful

I'd say any incarnation of Bane from when he defeats Sirak for the first time would be able to take her. Any point onwards from when he returned to the BoD on Ruusan and he annihilates her.

Not sure about that, because, accoriding to Banes musings, anybody with any real forc potential went to Korriban, but the others were trained just to hide, or get pissed. Anyways, Sirak was the best of them, but even HE wasnt all that good, because as soon as Bane actually was able to use ANY amount of his massive force repotoire, he toyed Sirak. The Korriban guys were more of small powered force users, to me, and I know that Jaina, as of LotF, was a pretty epic fighter(i believe, not sure, havnt read the whole series yet) But still, Bane would need the knowledge of most forms that he learned by the end of PoD to kill her, IMO

Would that not just make Bane very good, as he demonstrates himself to be independantly of that incident, rather than making Sirak not all that good?

Also, it's not just that he defeated Sirak, it's the manner in which he did so, and the other stuff he had demonstrated at that point.

Quite a while before, after having just learnt how to summon force lightning literally an hour before, he was able to summon a lightning storm of a scale we've still yet to see matched or surpassed by a single person, a storm that fully encompassed a room capable of housing hundreds of students, one of the greatest displays of mastery with the ability we've seen, period, let alone for someone who only just learn how to use the base ability.

Then of course there's the fact that during his defeat of Sirak, he demonstrates yet another unprecedented display of ability, when he moves at a speed completely beyond the perceptions of every single Force User present, which included not only the students but the battle master Kas'im. There's hasn't been a being before or since that has been shown to be able to move at such a speed that they become practically invisible to fellow Force Users, and this is for a Force User that more heavily favoured strength over speed in his fighting style.

The point being that Bane already starts demonstrating abilities at this point that make him truly stand out and place him on a level that Jaina cannot be said to reach.

Originally posted by Aede Madavan
There's hasn't been a being before or since that has been shown to be able to move at such a speed that they become practically invisible to fellow Force Users

Really? Have you read any of the other EU novels besides the Bane Trilogy? I believe Mace, Sidious, Luke and Yoda have all been described as doing that. Mace and Sidious in their duel, Yoda in a demonstration(probably other times as well) and Luke more than once. Bane is not blowing away all the other characters in the mythos away in speed.

Mace and Sidious were only described as such in Anakin Skywalker's N-Canon observations, Yoda's demonstration was a display of precognition, not speed, and Luke has never been described in such a way either.

Originally posted by Aede Madavan
Mace and Sidious were only described as such in Anakin Skywalker's N-Canon observations

Canon was the keyword. No reason to downplay it just because it makes your previous statement incorrect.

Originally posted by Aede Madavan
Yoda's demonstration was a display of precognition, not speed, and Luke has never been described in such a way either.

Precog and speed go hand in hand don't they? You have to have the speed to be able to react to your precog, otherwise precog isn't going to help. I think Luke is described as a blur in the assault on Shimmra whether it was when he was fighting regular YV, Slayers or Shimmra himself I can't remember.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Canon was the keyword. No reason to downplay it just because it makes your previous statement incorrect.

Except no. The description you're referring to are Anakin's observations of Darth Sidious and Mace Windu's duel after arriving at Palpatine's office, when as the movie quite clearly establishes he didn't arrive until after the fight had ended. The novel contradicts the movie and in this case is rendered N-Canon.



You're confused.

Here's the passage in question:

Star Wars : Darth Maul : Shadowhunter

"She had attended a lecture on battle techniques given by Master Yoda earlier this year, and the memory of it came back to her now.

Yoda had faced the assembled students and spoken, his thin reedy voice somehow carrying to the far corners of the lecture hall without benefit of amplifiers.

"Better than training, the Force is. More than experience or speed it gives."

And he had given a demonstration. Three members of the council-Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, and Depa Bil-laba, excellent fighters all-had come forward and attacked him. Master Yoda had not been armed, and had not seemed to move more than a meter or so, his tread slow and measured. Nevertheless, none of the three had been able to lay a finger on him. The lesson had struck powerfully home: Knowledge of the Force was infinitely better than technique."

The point of the demonstration was to display the benefits of precognition over such things as battle technique or speed; as the passage clearly explains Yoda's movement was not a great or a quick one, it was a slow, simple movement, that with the benefits of precognition, enabled Yoda to evade the attacks of all three Jedi Masters at the precisely right time with a short, easy movement. It was not a demonstration of speed.



Because "appearing as a blur" = "completely beyond the perceptions of"?

Not to mention in the incident you're referring to Luke was receiving the benefits of his battle meld with Jacen and Jaina and as such his ability was being amplified beyond its normal levels.

Well since I'll probably never feel like posting that much info and feel that arguing is pointless because we will still have our same opinions I'll agree to disagree.

The Bane wank in this thread is amusing... Sure Bane moved very fast, but it was really only a quick flurry of moves that he spent the entire fight charging up his powers to unleash. That is nothing compared to Luke and Sidious's duel which had the entire battle take place in bluring speeds.

Well, Neb is the leader in Bane wankery.

Originally posted by ares834
The Bane wank in this thread is amusing... Sure Bane moved very fast, but it was really only a quick flurry of moves that he spent the entire fight charging up his powers to unleash. That is nothing compared to Luke and Sidious's duel which had the entire battle take place in bluring speeds.

1. He was not charging up his power for the entire fight, he was holding back his rage until it became almost painful to continue doing so at which point he released his fury into that final maneuvre. At best you could claim that at that point in time, the required state of his emotions that enabled him such a flurry of speed, was quite possibly something he couldn't channel at a moment's notice, but the power he required was summoned in an instant and required no such channeling of power.

2. Not that you claimed otherwise, but there's no indication given that the single set of moves was all he was capable of whilst operating at that level of speed (that single set of moves was all that was required to achieve his goal of defeating Sirak).

3. Aside from the fact that "bluring speeds", as far as what it actually means, would accomodate a vast range of potential speeds, the lower end of which would equate to sub-human speeds, as well as being entirely subject to hyperbole or metaphorical expression, if you're referring to the DE audiotape I can now verify that pretty much every claim made by the likes of Lightsnake and Gideon on the matter were completely false. I'm not saying they were lying (though Lightsnake probably was and Gideon was probably getting his information from Lightsnake) but they were most definitely wrong.

I don't get what's so great about the Bane novels, anyway. What's to be so obsessed with? Their writing style was average and aimed at semi-literate teenagers--oh, wait. I understand now.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I don't get what's so great about the Bane novels, anyway. What's to be so obsessed with? Their writing style was average and aimed at semi-literate teenagers--oh, wait. I understand now.

I actually got freaked out by the darth bane novels because bane and zannah were so frightenly evil acting.

Uh huh. Freaked out you say?

Originally posted by Aede Madavan
1. He was not charging up his power for the entire fight, he was holding back his rage until it became almost painful to continue doing so at which point he released his fury into that final maneuvre. At best you could claim that at that point in time, the required state of his emotions that enabled him such a flurry of speed, was quite possibly something he couldn't channel at a moment's notice, but the power he required was summoned in an instant and required no such channeling of power.

2. Not that you claimed otherwise, but there's no indication given that the single set of moves was all he was capable of whilst operating at that level of speed (that single set of moves was all that was required to achieve his goal of defeating Sirak).

3. Aside from the fact that "bluring speeds", as far as what it actually means, would accomodate a vast range of potential speeds, the lower end of which would equate to sub-human speeds, as well as being entirely subject to hyperbole or metaphorical expression, if you're referring to the DE audiotape I can now verify that pretty much every claim made by the likes of Lightsnake and Gideon on the matter were completely false. I'm not saying they were lying (though Lightsnake probably was and Gideon was probably getting his information from Lightsnake) but they were most definitely wrong.

Totally forgot to say:

2.5. Regardless of the circumstances behind the showing it still demonstrates a capacity for speed that hasn't come close to being matched or surpassed.

However, Banes ability CANT be downplayed in this speed matter, he was a force user for MONTHS, tops, the others, well, Mace: One of the most powerful PT jedi, Yoda: Most powerful PT jedi, Sidious: Most powerful sith to ever live, Luke: MOST POWERFUL FORCE USER EVER

I think Bane is a bit unique in this matter, that a Sith Lord couldnt see him, and he toyed the second best student at an academy for Sith, granted very WEAK sith

Also, in all of Banes musings, he called Sirak weak. Granted they are biased, Sirak thought he would need 2 others, himself, and Githany to take out an UNARMED Bane. Bane was by no means defenseless, even without Githany's help, he had a chance to win.

Originally posted by KMCmember
I wouldn't be surprised if it were literal.

Beg your pardon but I disagree. Bane has far too much pride and self-respect for that.

Hes a sith, he would do it to embarass the jedi

Ja1Na W1N5
BaN3 15 50Ft`

Originally posted by Pwned
Its straight up force rape

A thousand Krogan testicles bets she keeps the baby and never stops thinking about him.

Romantically.

You know, one of those testicles will have a kid, you monster.