Revan -vs- Darth Vader

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Rookwood
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/RevanVader_zps17812542.jpg

After defeating the already powerful (and then Star Forge-enhanced) Malak - Revan redeems himself in the light.

He returns to Lehon a hero - but all is not well.

Darth Vader, enroute to meet with Palpatine in his TIE fighter, falls through a wormhole, and ends up crash-landing on Lehon.

Stepping out of the craft, unharmed, Vader spots Revan and suspects him to be a survivor of the Jedi Purge.

Revan recognizes Vader as a Sith Lord, and, donning his helmet, lights his sword, and steps forward to challenge Vader.

Vader and Revan stare each other down.

Starting Distance Apart: 10 Feet.

axel_jovan
Vader cool

Rookwood
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww231/Thallah/Duh.jpg

axel_jovan
Nice pic!

































































































Vader still rolls /thread. cool

NTJack0
Revan tries some of his fancy force powers and Vader picks up the TIE behind him and crushes Revan with it.

jmoul
Revan gets bvtt fvcked.

Arhael
Vader is likely faster and his TK feats surpass anything Revan will ever show.

Rookwood
Originally posted by jmoul
Revan gets bvtt fvcked.

Care to explain how? smokin'

Rookwood
Originally posted by Arhael
Vader is likely faster and his TK feats surpass anything Revan will ever show.

Of course Vader is faster - he's known to be one of the fastest characters of the mythos, according to George Lucas.

Don't let the heavy, clunky robotic body fool you. stick out tongue

jmoul
Originally posted by Rookwood
Of course Vader is faster - he's known to be one of the fastest characters of the mythos, according to George Lucas.

Don't let the heavy, clunky robotic body fool you. stick out tongue

Please go to my 'Peak Bane vs. Peak-Suit Vader' thread, the debate about Vader's speed being reduced by his suit is breath-taking.

Also, now that I think on it, I'm not sure how Revan gets bvtt fvcked, since Vader got severely burned down there.

Rookwood
Originally posted by jmoul
Please go to my 'Peak Bane vs. Peak-Suit Vader' thread, the debate about Vader's speed being reduced by his suit is breath-taking.

Also, now that I think on it, I'm not sure how Revan gets bvtt fvcked, since Vader got severely burned down there.

Oh, I already know that. stick out tongue

Did you see how Vader was moving like a blur, when he was trying to avoid Luke's swings?

laughing laughing laughing

Nephthys
Vader has actually blitzed Jedi before, so he is not as slow as he appears.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
Oh, I already know that. stick out tongue

Did you see how Vader was moving like a blur, when he was trying to avoid Luke's swings?

laughing laughing laughing

Well him and Luke were about as blurrish as Mace and Sidious were.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader has actually blitzed Jedi before, so he is not as slow as he appears.

Are there any links to pictures for this?

I know he's killed Jedi, but I always figured they were tired and starved from running during the Purge, and he essentially wore them down with his strength/weight and Force attacks.

But if there are links to pictures of him speedily-blitzing Jedi, I will gladly view them for clarification.

Arhael
You are confusing speed with mobility. Yes, he can't jump around like a monkey. Yes, he can't practice yoga sessions. But nothing prevents him from swinging lightsaber as fast as possible. Weight of his armor is unknown. His proestetic hands are not necessarily heavier than real ones. What is known is that his suit is enhanced by Sith sorcery, so it supposed to increase his capabilities, not other way around.

In Luceno's book his speed was said to be faster than anyone but Yoda.

He nearly speed blitzed even Marek in rage:
The intensity of Darth Vader's attack redoubled. "I have no father."

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near, but he felt no pain.

Lumiya is more of a machine than Vader and her potential doesn't compare to Chosen One, nor was her costume enhanced with any sorcery. Yet, it didn't prevent her to be fast enough even for Luke.

Ascendancy
Indeed. The novels speak to Vader and Lumiya's total Force powers being diminished by their injuries, but not their speed.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Rookwood
Are there any links to pictures for this?

I know he's killed Jedi, but I always figured they were tired and starved from running during the Purge, and he essentially wore them down with his strength/weight and Force attacks.

But if there are links to pictures of him speedily-blitzing Jedi, I will gladly view them for clarification.

'Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade.

Time and again the two Jedi Knights attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry, and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate Forte's and Kulka's strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed.

Toying with the Jedi, he grazed Forte on the left shoulder, then on the right thigh; Kulka, he pierced lightly in the abdomen, then shaved away the flesh on the right side of the Ho'Din's face.

Seeing the two Jedi Knights drop to their knees, wincing in pain, Padawan Klossi Anno broke from where she was helping Jambe and Nam engage the stormtroopers and got to Vader one step ahead of Starstone.

Sidestepping, Vader slashed her across the back, sending her sprawling across the balcony; then he whirled on Forte and Kulka just as they were clambering to their feet and decapitated them. From behind Vader came Jambe and Nam, neither of whom was an experienced fighter and both of whom Vader immediately eliminated from the fight, amputating Jambe's right arm, and Nam's right leg.

To her horror, Starstone realized she was suddenly alone with Vader, who immediately signaled his stormtroopers to leave her to him, and to devote themselves to slaughtering the few Wookiees who remained on the tier.'

Vader takes out 3 Jedi without even engaging them properly. Casually sidestepping and killing one Jedi then taking 2 others out 'immediately.' He's also noted to be fast and agile, enough to toy with his opponents.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels,

thumb up

I was looking for this!

TheMagicPillow
Can't remember what issue (was near the end of the series) of Darth Vader and the ghost prison, but Vader was fighting a jedi and when he tried leaping over Vader, Vader was fast enough to reach his arm up and grab him by the pony tail (in mid air) and slam him down hard enough to break the concrete on the ground.
Good strength/speed feat for him. Not the best but it shows how quick he can be. I'll try and find the scan.

His speed was never reduced because of his injuries, the problem has always been his stamina. He can be almost as agile as Anakin was if he truly needs to be, he just can't keep it up for very long. He really isn't as slow as some posters are making him out to be though. Obviously not the fastest but plenty quick enough to keep him in this fight.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by TheMagicPillow
Can't remember what issue (was near the end of the series) of Darth Vader and the ghost prison, but Vader was fighting a jedi and when he tried leaping over Vader, Vader was fast enough to reach his arm up and grab him by the pony tail (in mid air) and slam him down hard enough to break the concrete on the ground.
Good strength/speed feat for him. Not the best but it shows how quick he can be. I'll try and find the scan.

His speed was never reduced because of his injuries, the problem has always been his stamina. He can be almost as agile as Anakin was if he truly needs to be, he just can't keep it up for very long. He really isn't as slow as some posters are making him out to be though. Obviously not the fastest but plenty quick enough to keep him in this fight.


People do generally underestimate his speed and agility. But he's definitely not as fast and mobile as his pre-suit self.

TheMagicPillow
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
People do generally underestimate his speed and agility. But he's definitely not as fast and mobile as his pre-suit self.

Yeah i agree with that, but Vader's definitely not a statue or anything when he fights.

Couldn't find the scans online anywhere, but the dark jedi that i mentioned was named Nax Cirvan

NewGuy01
Vader, good fight.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Arhael
Vader is likely faster and his TK feats surpass anything Revan will ever show.
From Drew Karpyshyn;

"And, if the situation was right he might be able to collapse a building; it would really depend on his state of mind and the circumstances."

As I have pointed out before in another discussion, we have yet to see the best from Revan in the context of his telekinetic abilities.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Nephthys
'Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade.

Time and again the two Jedi Knights attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry, and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate Forte's and Kulka's strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed.

Toying with the Jedi, he grazed Forte on the left shoulder, then on the right thigh; Kulka, he pierced lightly in the abdomen, then shaved away the flesh on the right side of the Ho'Din's face.

Seeing the two Jedi Knights drop to their knees, wincing in pain, Padawan Klossi Anno broke from where she was helping Jambe and Nam engage the stormtroopers and got to Vader one step ahead of Starstone.

Sidestepping, Vader slashed her across the back, sending her sprawling across the balcony; then he whirled on Forte and Kulka just as they were clambering to their feet and decapitated them. From behind Vader came Jambe and Nam, neither of whom was an experienced fighter and both of whom Vader immediately eliminated from the fight, amputating Jambe's right arm, and Nam's right leg.

To her horror, Starstone realized she was suddenly alone with Vader, who immediately signaled his stormtroopers to leave her to him, and to devote themselves to slaughtering the few Wookiees who remained on the tier.'

Vader takes out 3 Jedi without even engaging them properly. Casually sidestepping and killing one Jedi then taking 2 others out 'immediately.' He's also noted to be fast and agile, enough to toy with his opponents.

I own that book - good book.

I know he was able to take out those Jedi, including Shyrne later on.

It demonstrates well that he's decent enough at least, to take out lower to middle-tier Jedi perhaps, but it doesn't show him moving with enough speed to dispatch the accomplished prodigy that is Revan.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Arhael
You are confusing speed with mobility. Yes, he can't jump around like a monkey. Yes, he can't practice yoga sessions. But nothing prevents him from swinging lightsaber as fast as possible. Weight of his armor is unknown.

265 Lbs.


Originally posted by Arhael

His proestetic hands are not necessarily heavier than real ones. What is known is that his suit is enhanced by Sith sorcery, so it supposed to increase his capabilities, not other way around.

Instead of using durasteel for his leg prosthesis, the medical droids had substituted an inferior alloy, and had failed to inspect the strips that protected the electromotive lines. As a result, the inner lining of the pressurized bodysuit was continually snagging on places where the strips were anchored to knee and ankle joints. Additionally, the tall boots were a poor fit for his artificial feet, whose toes lacked the electrostatic sensitivity of his equally false fingertips. These devices made it even more difficult for him to move with ease, much less with any grace. Raised in the heel, the cumbersome footwear canted him slightly forward, forcing him to move with exaggerated caution lest he stumble or topple over. Worse, they were so heavy that he often felt rooted to the ground, or as if he were moving in high gravity. He even felt that he needed to use the Force to move, though he eventually grew used to it. As a result of his large body and abnormal needs, Vader had to have a custom airspeeder made for him to drive comfortably in.


Originally posted by Arhael

In Luceno's book his speed was said to be faster than anyone but Yoda.

He nearly speed blitzed even Marek in rage:
The intensity of Darth Vader's attack redoubled. "I have no father."

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near, but he felt no pain.

I haven't heard a lot about Marek being an exceptional duelist - just that he's good with the Force and needs the Force to take people in duels.


Originally posted by Arhael

Lumiya is more of a machine than Vader and her potential doesn't compare to Chosen One, nor was her costume enhanced with any sorcery. Yet, it didn't prevent her to be fast enough even for Luke.

Lumiya doesn't wear heavy armor like Vader, and her prosthetics haven't been noted to be heavy like Vader's.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Indeed. The novels speak to Vader and Lumiya's total Force powers being diminished by their injuries, but not their speed.

Apparently Vader's speed is diminished, thanks to the iron-lung he walks around in, but Lumiya doesn't have the same situation as he does, so her speed and mobility doesn't suffer.

jadams3928
The only character Vader has faced that was ulta powerful was Marek, and he got crushed. There's not much he can do to Revan.

Based
Vader.

Arhael
There is only one book with him from his own perspective, of couse you wouldn't hear.
Marek trained on droids like Maul as well as sparred with Vader from childhood. He drilled saber skill as much as Force and book shows that well. In all fights he demonstrated flawless saber skill trying to outwit his opponets by changing styles as well as recognizing their styles and tactics. There is no implication whatsoever that he lacks saber skill or speed in any way.


Originally posted by Rookwood
Apparently Vader's speed is diminished, thanks to the iron-lung he walks around in, but Lumiya doesn't have the same situation as he does, so her speed and mobility doesn't suffer.
Vader uses Force to overcome his limitations. Yoda has far more limitations, yet, it didn't prevent him from going toe to toe with most powerful Sith in sabers.

Apart from overwhelming amount of speed feats there is even easier comparison. Anakin and Kenobi matched in speed. Logically Vader would be slower than Kenobi. Yet, they confront again and Vader chooses to fight with lightsaber to demonstrate how he improved since their last encounter.

"Last time I was nothing but the learner and now I am the Master".

You can make countless logical arguments, they will mean nothing without proofs. Indeed his suit limits him from certain things. He lacks mobility, yet, his original style doesn't rely on it. He can't dodge as good as before but with Makashi which allows swinging saber around more freely and immense strength that comes with suit he can afford to block all the attacks. He overcame his limitations and became as deadly as he ever was.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Arhael
There is only one book with him from his own perspective, of couse you wouldn't hear.
Marek trained on droids like Maul as well as sparred with Vader from childhood. He drilled saber skill as much as Force and book shows that well. In all fights he demonstrated flawless saber skill trying to outwit his opponets by changing styles as well as recognizing their styles and tactics. There is no implication whatsoever that he lacks saber skill or speed in any way.

That's not what I hear all over this place. stick out tongue


Originally posted by Arhael

Vader uses Force to overcome his limitations. Yoda has far more limitations, yet, it didn't prevent him from going toe to toe with most powerful Sith in sabers.

And Yoda didn't don armor and prosthetics that weighs hundreds of pounds.

Vader uses the Force to compensate with his ruined-physicality - not overcome it.

Your point fails, miserably.


Originally posted by Arhael

Apart from overwhelming amount of speed feats there is even easier comparison. Anakin and Kenobi matched in speed. Logically Vader would be slower than Kenobi. Yet, they confront again and Vader chooses to fight with lightsaber to demonstrate how he improved since their last encounter.

"Last time I was nothing but the learner and now I am the Master".

And?

Kenobi was slower around that time as well - and from what I understand, could have beaten Vader.

Vader would be easily out-paced by a younger Kenobi.


Originally posted by Arhael

You can make countless logical arguments, they will mean nothing without proofs.

You mean the "proofs", I already gave? stick out tongue

I already gave them, and they are valid, so what your saying is that my arguments mean a lot.


Originally posted by Arhael

Indeed his suit limits him from certain things. He lacks mobility, yet, his original style doesn't rely on it. He can't dodge as good as before but with Makashi which allows swinging saber around more freely and immense strength that comes with suit he can afford to block all the attacks. He overcame his limitations and became as deadly as he ever was.

With the Force - not with a lightsaber.

shinkoryu
I love dick

Rookwood
Originally posted by shinkoryu
I love dick

Who doesn't?

shinkoryu
Originally posted by Rookwood
Who doesn't? yer mum

Rookwood
Originally posted by shinkoryu
yer mum
Yer mum was a big fan of my dick. smokin'

A big fan.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
That's not what I hear all over this place. stick out tongue







You should ask all those people to provide proof.

In TFUI Galen would switch between Soresu and Juyo. He had a very high level of skill in both. And practices against Proxy imitating different Jedi using different forms, all of which he can recognize immediately and knows exactly how to deal with each form.

In TFUII he says he's inherited Ataro and Niman mastery from the original Galen.

So yeah, he was pretty damn accomplished in the use of Jedi fencing forms.

Rookwood
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You should ask all those people to provide proof.

In TFUI Galen would switch between Soresu and Juyo. He had a very high level of skill in both. And practices against Proxy imitating different Jedi using different forms, all of which he can recognize immediately and knows exactly how to deal with each form.

In TFUII he says he's inherited Ataro and Niman mastery from the original Galen.

So yeah, he was pretty damn accomplished in the use of Jedi fencing forms.

I've heard mostly around 'ere that Marek needs to utilize the Force to dispatch his opponents in duels, and that he can't do it purely with swordsmanship.

Nephthys
His lightsaber skills have been referred to as 'near-perfect.' He's not exactly Coleman Trebor. erm

Rookwood
Originally posted by Nephthys
His lightsaber skills have been referred to as 'near-perfect.' He's not exactly Coleman Trebor. erm

Hasn't he needed the Force to take out all of his opponents, according to Canon cutscenes, etc?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
Hasn't he needed the Force to take out all of his opponents, according to Canon cutscenes, etc?

The comic shows him taking them out with the Force. But the novel has him outduelling pretty much everyone. Only Shaak Ti got past his Saber defenses in the novel, and that was Via a suicide move. Oh and he became more powerful after that fight anyway.

His Soresu is clearly at a high level. And he switches anytime to a ferocious Juyo attack.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Rookwood
Hasn't he needed the Force to take out all of his opponents, according to Canon cutscenes, etc?

He never 'needed' to do anything. That he beat them with the Force only shows that he could beat them with the Force, not that he was unable to do so in sabers. He beat Vader in sabers.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Nephthys
He never 'needed' to do anything. That he beat them with the Force only shows that he could beat them with the Force, not that he was unable to do so in sabers. He beat Vader in sabers.

It seemed as though your earlier viewpoint conveyed that Marek hardly defeated any opponents in duels, without considerable offense Force usage.

Rookwood
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The comic shows him taking them out with the Force. But the novel has him outduelling pretty much everyone. Only Shaak Ti got past his Saber defenses in the novel, and that was Via a suicide move. Oh and he became more powerful after that fight anyway.

His Soresu is clearly at a high level. And he switches anytime to a ferocious Juyo attack.

And the game? smokin'

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood
And the game? smokin'

Only the cut scenes are canon. You can't tell from them how he won most his fights since that happens in during the gameplay which isn't canon.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Only the cut scenes are canon. You can't tell from them how he won most his fights since that happens in during the gameplay which isn't canon.

The key commands certainly are canon given that they are scripted.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by Rookwood
Yer mum was a big fan of my dick. smokin'

A big fan. Oh im sure she does mr BBC wink

SIDIOUS 66
Rookwood has a dick now?

Rookwood
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Rookwood has a dick now?
You should know, you've been sucking on it long enough, Little *****. big grin laughing

Your stomach is full of my cum, and I haven't heard you voice any complaints to your daddy thus far. cool

laughing

Arhael
And Yoda didn't have long limbs like any other character. Tiger runs much faster than cat, length of limbs matters, when it comes to speed. Yet, Yoda is still arguebly the fastest and Vader is stated faster than anyone but Yoda. So no, that's not a proof you provided. My argument can't fail because it is backed up by overwhelming amount of feats and comparisons, while your argument isn't.


There is no proof that Kenobi got slower. Vader couldn't know either that Kenobi will be weaker and considered himself stronger as his quote implies.


Let me put it other way.
There is no proof that Marek lacked in speed. You are just biased to assume that he did. In contrary there is no proof that Revan is at least as fast and skilled as Marek.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Arhael
And Yoda didn't have long limbs like any other character. Tiger runs much faster than cat, length of limbs matters, when it comes to speed. Yet, Yoda is still arguebly the fastest and Vader is stated faster than anyone but Yoda. So no, that's not a proof you provided. My argument can't fail because it is backed up by overwhelming amount of feats and comparisons, while your argument isn't.

Ahrael, your "arguments" are creeping over into Retard-territory, again. stick out tongue

I just gave you Canon proof of Vader's speed being inhibited greatly by his armor and prosthetics, so be aware of that.

And Ferus Olin's account of Vader's "speed" is inconsistent, because during his time in the Order, he would have seen a few Jedi, a physically-prime Obi-wan Kenobi among them, being able to move much faster than Vader.


Originally posted by Arhael

There is no proof that Kenobi got slower.

Except for his physical-showings in A New Hope. roll eyes (sarcastic)


Originally posted by Arhael

Let me put it other way.
There is no proof that Marek lacked in speed. You are just biased to assume that he did. In contrary there is no proof that Revan is at least as fast and skilled as Marek.

I'm not assuming Marek lacks in speed - he has no reason to.

I was however, going off the earlier hypothesis of a few others, that Marek was apparently lacking in skill, due to his showings.

Others have since retracted their opinions on that matter.

But there is nothing to state that Marek is any faster or more skilled than Revan, as well.

jmoul
Okay, I said this before: if you want to have a debate about Vader's speed, read the one on my Peak Bane vs. Peak-Suit Vader thread. Save us the additional pain of having to read your degrading points that are closer to insults than an arguments, it ruins the point of these threads: to have a friendly debate over the given topic.

Rookwood
Originally posted by jmoul
Okay, I said this before: if you want to have a debate about Vader's speed, read the one on my Peak Bane vs. Peak-Suit Vader thread.
|
Originally posted by jmoul
Enough of that debate, it is clear that Vader is extremely limited in speed compared to RotS Anakin, since his prosthetic limbs and his armor weren't as flexible as biological limbs. His armor was extremely heavy, and because he still had a biological torso, he needed to keep the weight that wasn't supported by his prosthetics off of his damaged body in order to move at the speed that he did.


^ What, that? stick out tongue

So you're arguing basically that Vader isn't really all that fast?

Okay, well put. stick out tongue

Yes, Vader is pretty slow, compared to a lot of Jedi and Sith, and definitely holds no edge over Revan here - if anything Revan probably has an edge in speed, over him. cool

shinkoryu
The keyword is slower. Vader isn't as slow as you make him out to be, he's still quick enough to dodge lasers right after the trigger is being pulled and quick enough to deflect a planatery laser right back at the canon.

No doubt he is slower than before due to his heavy armor and prosthetics though but its not like the more agile opponents he faced were lightyears ahead of him in speed.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by shinkoryu
The keyword is slower. Vader isn't as slow as you make him out to be, he's still quick enough to dodge lasers right after the trigger is being pulled and quick enough to deflect a planatery laser right back at the canon.

No doubt he is slower than before due to his heavy armor and prosthetics though but its not like the more agile opponents he faced were lightyears ahead of him in speed.


She agrees.

Rookwood is just a troll, who apparently wishes she had a dick. None of her posts are genuine.

Rookwood
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
She agrees.

Rookwood is just a troll, who apparently wishes she had a dick. None of her posts are genuine.
As you say, between mouthful's of my cum.

Given that you're feeding on my seed, because you can't produce any of your own, I'd say that's pretty telling. laughing

You only wish you had genitals, like your daddy. cool

Don't you?

Don't you, *****? laughing

Rookwood
Originally posted by shinkoryu
The keyword is slower. Vader isn't as slow as you make him out to be, he's still quick enough to dodge lasers right after the trigger is being pulled and quick enough to deflect a planatery laser right back at the canon.

No doubt he is slower than before due to his heavy armor and prosthetics though but its not like the more agile opponents he faced were lightyears ahead of him in speed.

The lightsaber Prodigy that is Revan, would likely still be. cool

shinkoryu
Originally posted by Rookwood
The lightsaber Prodigy that is Revan, would likely still be. cool The details on his lightsaber skills aren't much anyway.

Rookwood
- Realistically:

Based on the opponents they've both fought, their skills, their powers, their potential, their reputations and the things they've survived - I would say realistically this fight is a 50-50 split.

It could literally go either way.

shinkoryu
It would be an epic fight though.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by shinkoryu
The details on his lightsaber skills aren't much anyway.
Yes, information is limited in this regard but it still portrays Revan as being immensely skilled with a lightsaber.

Also, if this helps;

Mr. Drew revealed to me that Revan was skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat. However, his style was unpredictable.

Originally posted by Rookwood
- Realistically:

Based on the opponents they've both fought, their skills, their powers, their potential, their reputations and the things they've survived - I would say realistically this fight is a 50-50 split.

It could literally go either way.
Revan packs greater raw power and his command of the Force is also superior.

Nephthys
That would indicate that he's very skilled. I'd still be very hesitant to back him against anyone of proven ability however.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Mr. Drew revealed to me that Revan was skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat. However, his style was unpredictable.

. What drew claims isn't canon until its actually written down in either a sourcebook or a novel. Because drew has also revealed to me that Revan has no dick.

Seriously quit bothering drew with your constant emails of sexual harassment you smelly curry muncher.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Seriously quit bothering drew with your constant emails of sexual harassment you smelly curry muncher.

If reading those emails keeps Karpyshyn glued to his inbox and away from Microsoft Word and Star Wars, then keep 'em coming.

shinkoryu
Fair point, hes a piss poor writer anyway.

The_Tempest
I'd say he's a piss poor novelist (though that's a generous assessment of his abilities). As a writer, in a collaborative effort, he's produced excellent work.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'd say he's a piss poor novelist (though that's a generous assessment of his abilities). As a writer, in a collaborative effort, he's produced excellent work. The only good "writing" iv seen him do is Mass effect, which even then is a pretty dull story. All his other novels were utter crap that he spewed from his ahnus.

The_Tempest
I love Mass Effect. KotOR is pretty good, too.

Arhael
Ahrael, your "arguments" are creeping over into Retard-territory, again. stick out tongue

I just gave you Canon proof of Vader's speed being inhibited greatly by his armor and prosthetics, so be aware of that.

You gave proof that his armor weights a lot, not that his speed is reduced. Within the same book he gets used to his armor and readjusts his style. His single swing knocked two Jedi over, that's how strong he was. Such strength is more than sufficient to move as fast as others despite heavy armor. Moreover, in the same book he blitzed other Jedi. This is canon proof that his weight of armor doesn't prevent him from being as deadly as ever with lightsaber.


roll eyes (sarcastic)


During his time in order he personally knew Anakin and Kenobi and participated with them on the same missions. So basically what you just said is void.

As for old Kenobi you still haven't provided any evidence that he got slower. Yoda was in far worse condition, he couldn't even walk properly, yet, his speed did not suffer from it.

This:
"Executing a move of incredible swiftness for one so old, Kenobi lunged at the massive shape. Vader blocked the stab with equal speed, riposting with a counterslash that Kenobi barely parried. Another parry and Kenobi countered again, using this opportunity to move around the towering Dark Lord.

They continued to trade blows, with the old man now backing toward the hangar."

Vader matched Kenobi's speed and nearly killed him with first counterattack.


The only thing that was apparent from the book is that his opponents were immensely powerful in their own right.

His first opponent - Kota could literally reflect any Force attack including lightning. Moreover, he could block lightsaber attacks and dodge telekinetic projectiles while Force choked. In comparison look how helpless Kenobi, Anakin and Dooku are, when Force choked.

And Shaak Ti on her death gave Force explosion, which is not even common for lightsiders.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by shinkoryu
What drew claims isn't canon until its actually written down in either a sourcebook or a novel.
It still is useful information.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Because drew has also revealed to me that Revan has no dick.
No, you are lying.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Seriously quit bothering drew with your constant emails of sexual harassment you smelly curry muncher.
I won't.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It still is useful information.
No it isn't.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No, you are lying. No im not. Do you get my point now?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


I won't. So you're close to 30 years old and you still sexually harass a piss poor novelist for "feats" of a fictional character?

Go out and get some hoes mate, and take a shower while you're at it you smelly paki.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by shinkoryu
No it isn't.
Not for you perhaps.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
No im not. Do you get my point now?
You got such an email from Drew? Show it to us.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
So you're close to 30 years old and you still sexually harass a piss poor novelist for "feats" of a fictional character?

Go out and get some hoes mate, and take a shower while you're at it you smelly paki,
Please keep these idiotic comments to yourself. Act mature.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by shinkoryu


Go out and get some hoes mate, and take a shower while you're at it you smelly paki.

Do you mean Pakistani? If so I'd advise you apologize for that comment right now.

Also a bit lame you calling him sad for asking Drew questions about a character's abilities when your on here discussing the same thing yourself.

And I'm sure SWL is above resorting to hoes.

Originally posted by Arhael
You gave proof that his armor weights a lot, not that his speed is reduced. Within the same book he gets used to his armor and readjusts his style. His single swing knocked two Jedi over, that's how strong he was.

He's like a fully trained and highly skilled version Opress big grin

Originally posted by Arhael
Such strength is more than sufficient to move as fast as others despite heavy armor. Moreover, in the same book he blitzed other Jedi. This is canon proof that his weight of armor doesn't prevent him from being as deadly as ever with lightsaber.




Yep he also blitzes Jedi in Purge. His Cyborg legs should easily be able to carry his weight and run fast just like Grievous and CW Maul do. And his Cyborg arms should still be able to swing fast. Just like Grievous and ROTS Anakin could.

shinkoryu
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not for you perhaps. Not for anyone for that matter

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You got such an email from Drew? Show it to us.
Again, what drew claims is irrelevant.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Please keep these idiotic comments to yourself. Act mature. Not with some curry muncher

Zampanó
So Shink is a notorious troll. I suggest just spamming this picture until it goes away:

http://i.imgur.com/Yh3zQkA.jpg

shinkoryu

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by shinkoryu

Not with some curry muncher

This is your last warning before I report you for your racist remarks.

jadams3928
In this troll's defense, "curry muncher" sounds hilarious.

DARTH POWER
Is this funny as well:


Originally posted by shinkoryu
and take a shower while you're at it you smelly paki.

ares834
Sorta.

jadams3928
Yup. What is it with this pathetically sensitive generation?

shinkoryu
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This is your last warning before I report you for your racist remarks. Ooooh im scared to get banned on an INTERNET FORUM! Go ahead you angel wanna be, i bet you're the kind of geek who thinks he can get laid if he is a white knight on the internet.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Ooooh im scared to get banned on an INTERNET FORUM! Go ahead you angel wanna be, i bet you're the kind of geek who thinks he can get laid if he is a white knight on the internet.

Like I care what a racist thinks. Oh and Reported.

Also your very obsessed about whose getting laid. After your banned I suggest you get some serious help.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by jadams3928
Yup. What is it with this pathetically sensitive generation?

Yeah clearly something wrong with us when we have an issue with blatant, unapologetic racist insults.

And absolutely nothing wrong with you who just sits there laughing while the words "smelly curry munching paki" are being thrown around.

I could understand if him and SWL were friends and both just joking around with each other. But that's clearly not the case, and the way shinkoryu is completely unapologetic about it shows he clearly is a racist.

I'm guessing his ex-girlfriend ran off with Pakistani guy. That would explain his racism and his obsession with who's shagging who.

jadams3928
You're not going to make it far in the real world when you get upset over internet insults.

NTJack0
Originally posted by jadams3928
You're not going to make it far in the real world when you get upset over internet insults. You're a thousand years too early to tangle with DARTH, now kindly get out.

jadams3928
I've been around longer than you, queer bait.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Arhael
You gave proof that his armor weights a lot, not that his speed is reduced.


I understand that you're too mentally slow to make the simple connections here. stick out tongue laughing

But yes, according to physics, with his armor, weighing hundreds of Lbs down on him, he would indeed have reduced speed.


Originally posted by Arhael

His single swing knocked two Jedi over, that's how strong he was. Such strength is more than sufficient to move as fast as others despite heavy armor.


He knocked them over, due to bulk, not raw strength.

His body, weighing much more now, would have increased momentum, and it was with that momentum that he could bowl people over.

Also, he needed the Force to move, and was not strong enough to move conventionally under his own power.


Originally posted by Arhael

Moreover, in the same book he blitzed other Jedi. This is canon proof that his weight of armor doesn't prevent him from being as deadly as ever with lightsaber.


Yeah, against mid to low-tier Jedi. stick out tongue


Originally posted by Arhael

roll eyes (sarcastic)


Yeah, forgot about A New Hope, didn't you? big grin


Originally posted by Arhael

During his time in order he personally knew Anakin and Kenobi and participated with them on the same missions. So basically what you just said is void.


No - what you just said is void. wink

Ferus Olin had indeed participated in missions with a physically-prime Obi-wan Kenobi, who is indeed faster than Vader.

Which makes Olin's account of Vader's "speed" inconsistent, because, again, he had also seen a physically-prime Kenobi in action - who is faster than Vader. cool


Originally posted by Arhael

As for old Kenobi you still haven't provided any evidence that he got slower. Yoda was in far worse condition, he couldn't even walk properly, yet, his speed did not suffer from it.
This:
"Executing a move of incredible swiftness for one so old, Kenobi lunged at the massive shape. Vader blocked the stab with equal speed, riposting with a counterslash that Kenobi barely parried. Another parry and Kenobi countered again, using this opportunity to move around the towering Dark Lord.
They continued to trade blows, with the old man now backing toward the hangar."
Vader matched Kenobi's speed and nearly killed him with first counterattack.


Everyone here knows that prime-Kenobi is significantly faster than Vader.

You just proved it yourself, that Kenobi had gotten slower over time. cool

Arhael
Originally posted by Rookwood I understand that you're too mentally slow to make the simple connections here. stick out tongue laughing

But yes, according to physics, with his armor, weighing hundreds of Lbs down on him, he would indeed have reduced speed.

According to physics Force can lift weight far greater than 265 lb. Not to have reduced speed he uses Force, simple as that.


Nowhere it says he needed to use Force.
This is quote from the book:
"What good was motion of this sort, if he was going to have to call on the Force even to walk from place to place!"

As you see it was referring to ability to walk, not swinging lightsaber.

And this:
"With the power of his arms alone, he had the ability to lift an adult being off the ground. But the Force had always given him the ability to do that, especially in moments of rage, as he had demonstrated on Tatooine and elsewhere".

As you see his hands are stronger without Force, not weaker.

Finally this:
"He felt invulnerable in a way that had nothing to do with his durasteel prostheses, his suit of armor and gadgets, which now seemed little more than an outfit."


What I said is not void because Olin's account of Vader's "speed" is consistent as Kenobi is not faster than Vader. There is no evidence that prime Kenobi is faster than Vader.


Correction. Some people might believe here that prime-Kenobi is significantly faster than Vader. But no one claimed it. And it is only assumption anyway.

S_W_LeGenD
@Arhael

The highest form of canon clearly established that Darth Vader was no longer as fast (and acrobatic) after becoming a cyborg as he was before in his natural form. He compensated this shortcoming by increasing his understanding of the Force and customizing his combat style according to his new biological/cybernatic realities.

Obviously, being a Force-wielder, Darth Vader is still expected to possess superhuman speed and reflexes. EU just reinforces this point.

As far as Revan is concerned; he doesn't have limitations of cyborg Darth Vader. Revan can perform even major actions with speed of thought or lightning fast; is highly acrobatic; and is very dangerous and unpredictable.

Rookwood
Originally posted by Arhael
According to physics Force can lift weight far greater than 265 lb. Not to have reduced speed he uses Force, simple as that.

Wrong. He uses the Force not to overcome the limitations set by the injuries at Mustafar - but to cope with them.

Because of Mustafar, he lost the ability to move as fast as he could in his prime, healthy body - having his body so badly damaged and weighed down, reduced his speed and agility.


Originally posted by Arhael

Nowhere it says he needed to use Force.
This is quote from the book:
"What good was motion of this sort, if he was going to have to call on the Force even to walk from place to place!"

As you see it was referring to ability to walk, not swinging lightsaber.

Yes, then it does say he needed the Force to move. stick out tongue

And all of Vader's showings still exemplify and show Vader not being anywhere near as fast as his non-injured self with a lightsaber. Simple as that.


Originally posted by Arhael

And this:
"With the power of his arms alone, he had the ability to lift an adult being off the ground. But the Force had always given him the ability to do that, especially in moments of rage, as he had demonstrated on Tatooine and elsewhere".

As you see his hands are stronger without Force, not weaker.

And still not as fast as his pre-injured self's. stick out tongue


Originally posted by Arhael

Finally this:
"He felt invulnerable in a way that had nothing to do with his durasteel prostheses, his suit of armor and gadgets, which now seemed little more than an outfit."

And?


Originally posted by Arhael

What I said is not void because Olin's account of Vader's "speed" is consistent as Kenobi is not faster than Vader. There is no evidence that prime Kenobi is faster than Vader.

So you're telling me that Vader could defeat General Grievous through a pure saber duel, the way Kenobi did?

Or that you can find showings of Vader moving with greater speed than Prime-Kenobi, at his fastest?

Please do. cool


Originally posted by Arhael

Correction. Some people might believe here that prime-Kenobi is significantly faster than Vader. But no one claimed it. And it is only assumption anyway.

Who has to claim it?

No one here thinks that Vader can fight Grievous in a pure sword-duel and win.

Because he can't. big grin

Prime-Kenobi is faster - making Olin's comments inconsistent - because he had already seen someone move faster than Vader, who wasn't Yoda. cool

juyomaster34
my money's on Revan.
Revan wins this duel in the Force and in Sabers.

The_Tempest
Olin's assessment of Vader's abilities are being disregarded entirely on what grounds?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Rookwood

And all of Vader's showings still exemplify and show Vader not being anywhere near as fast as his non-injured self with a lightsaber. Simple as that.

For example?





Originally posted by Rookwood
No one here thinks that Vader can fight Grievous in a pure sword-duel and win.



I have no doubt Vader would defeat Grievous in Lightsaber combat. Or are you really rating Vader's Saber prowess below that of Kit Fisto's?

Rookwood
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Olin's assessment of Vader's abilities are being disregarded entirely on what grounds?

Prime-Kenobi being faster than Vader, whom Olin fought alongside.

Rookwood
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
For example?

Vader versus Luke; every duel. big grin



Originally posted by DARTH POWER

I have no doubt Vader would defeat Grievous in Lightsaber combat. Or are you really rating Vader's Saber prowess below that of Kit Fisto's?

Of course, Dumbass. laughing

Vader's too slow to deal with Grievous' 26-swings per second.

He'd get diced, unless he utilized the Force to destroy Grievous. cool

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Rookwood
Prime-Kenobi being faster than Vader, whom Olin fought alongside.

And prime!Kenobi is faster than suit!Vader?

Rookwood
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And prime!Kenobi is faster than suit!Vader?

Indeed.

The_Tempest
Well, because you say so

Wait, not really. Where is your proof?

Rookwood
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well, because you say so

Wait, not really. Where is your proof?

I'm sure Kenobi's greatest speed-feats significantly trump Vaders.

Many of which we've all already seen in the movies, books and series.

But if there is a Vader speed-feat that trumps all of Kenobi's understood feats, I'm open to hearing them.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Rookwood
I'm sure Kenobi's greatest speed-feats significantly trump Vaders.

Many of which we've all already seen in the movies, books and series.

But if there is a Vader speed-feat that trumps all of Kenobi's understood feats, I'm open to hearing them.

So what you're saying is... you aren't sure. You believe Kenobi is likely faster than Vader, but lack the means to prove your case or are otherwise unwilling to do so.

With that in mind, it would probably be appropriate for you to ease up on those who disagree with you.

Rookwood
Originally posted by The_Tempest
So what you're saying is... you aren't sure. You believe Kenobi is likely faster than Vader, but lack the means to prove your case or are otherwise unwilling to do so.

With that in mind, it would probably be appropriate for you to ease up on those who disagree with you.

No, rather, I'm saying that common to everything we've all seen, by all accounts, Prime-Kenobi is faster than Vader.

And I'm saying that any arguments contradictory to this probably lack the means to prove their case, as feats demonstrating Vader's speed over Prime-Kenobi would be slim to nill.

I'd have to see what evidence they could offer, since that's what's really in question.

The_Tempest
Apparently all accounts don't agree: you're trying to throw out one that doesn't.

Rookwood
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Apparently all accounts don't agree: you're trying to throw out one that doesn't.

If he can offer up evidence of suited-Vader being faster than Prime-Kenobi, then I'll see that argument as applicable.

NewGuy01
Vader.

Bobafett34
VADER INSERTS HIS GIANT BLACK COCK IN REVANS GAY ****ING ASS AND WOOPS HIS ASS

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