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Would win in a battle to the death?
Setting: Endor

Probably Windu.

In any scenario I think Mace has a handy aid in Vaapad. There's been argument that perhaps he could use shatterpoint to find a way to defeat Orbalisk Bane, but even finding a weakness doesn't make for a guaranteed kill because of Bane's regen.

DoE incarnation has some pretty ridiculous speed to overcome, and his total Force knowledge and ability I think puts him over Mace. If somehow he can't bring anything but sabers to bare, I give Mace a pretty even chance considering that the was able to stand against Sidious. If Bane can utilize all of his abilities, then I don't know that Windu can defeat him, even feeding off of Bane's on darkside energies.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
In any scenario I think Mace has a handy aid in Vaapad. There's been argument that perhaps he could use shatterpoint to find a way to defeat Orbalisk Bane, but even finding a weakness doesn't make for a guaranteed kill because of Bane's regen.

DoE incarnation has some pretty ridiculous speed to overcome, and his total Force knowledge and ability I think puts him over Mace. If somehow he can't bring anything but sabers to bare, I give Mace a pretty even chance considering that the was able to stand against Sidious. If Bane can utilize all of his abilities, then I don't know that Windu can defeat him, even feeding off of Bane's on darkside energies.

Good points.

It could go either way.

I'm voting Bane--He's probably slightly faster, and stronger, and more powerful with the Force than Sidious's ROTS incarnation, who proved alone to be Mace's superior, amped or not.

Bane wins.

i agree with newguy01 bane wins because he is a beast especially with orbalisk armour!!!

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm voting Bane--He's probably slightly faster, and stronger, and more powerful with the Force than Sidious's ROTS incarnation, who proved alone to be Mace's superior, amped or not.

Bane wins.

Can i see the feats of Bane that make him faster.. and more powerful than Sids

It really depends on what incarnation of Bane it is.
PoD Bane dies a horrible death; RoT Bane would give Mace hell, mainly due to Orbalisks; DoE Bane would be a very hard challenge.

Mace Windu in my opinion. He takes it with extreem difficulty, but he takes it none the less.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
It really depends on what incarnation of Bane it is.
PoD Bane dies a horrible death; RoT Bane would give Mace hell, mainly due to Orbalisks; DoE Bane would be a very hard challenge.

I would only change that RoT Bane stomps. He was pretty damn beastly and nearly unstoppable

BASED ON WHAT FEATS WOULD ROT BANE STOMP? Smple question

AGAIN.. WHICH FEATS OF BANE make him faster and more powerful Sids? What kinda kool-aid are you guys drinking today? Jim Jones Kool-Aid?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
BASED ON WHAT FEATS WOULD ROT BANE STOMP? Smple question

AGAIN.. WHICH FEATS OF BANE make him faster and more powerful Sids? What kinda kool-aid are you guys drinking today? Jim Jones Kool-Aid?

The speed feats are a display of bladework that he showed during a downpour in which he moved both his saber and body so quickly that not a single drop touched him. You can look up the scene as it's pretty well described. He also managed to survive his apprentice trying to cut him down while he was completely unarmed and in an enclosed hallway.

As to the power feats it's been debated both way. Disintegration of attackers and leveling a temple via Force Wave, vaporizing opponents with a Darkside field, Force Lightning of one million volts.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
As to the power feats it's been debated both way. Disintegration of attackers and leveling a temple via Force Wave, vaporizing opponents with a Darkside field, Force Lightning of one million volts.
All of which were displayed on a DS nexuses IIRC.
And my God, Bane did not level a temple He essentially leveled a pilair that was holding an ancient temple together. Kas'im withstood that attack....and we know Windu >> Kas'im in the Force...and again, it was a DS nexus feat...

I submit that Bane is not faster in combat than Sidious, after all where was his speed when he fought for his life in DoE?
It seems to me that 'rain feat' =/= 'combat feat'

After all Agen Kolar (? IIRC) was descirbed to essentially have reflexes to pilot a ship in a speed that exceeds lightspeed....if we take that he can display such reflexes in combat, Kolar would be nothing short of a Force-god.

Neither Kolar nor Bane replicated that speed in combat (to my knowledge) therefore it is possible to conclude that they simply can't/won't do it at whim in a combat scenario.

EDIT

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
BASED ON WHAT FEATS WOULD ROT BANE STOMP? Smple question

AGAIN.. WHICH FEATS OF BANE make him faster and more powerful Sids? What kinda kool-aid are you guys drinking today? Jim Jones Kool-Aid?

Based on him taking on 4(?) of the most powerful/skilled Jedi of his time simultaneously while they were powered up by BM. I know Sids is better than the Jedi were but i think he would have had more trouble than Bane did with them due to Bane having armor.

Bane is rather powerful, with or without orbalisks. His RoT incarnation would have a definite edge against Windu since he doesn't have force lightning to damage Bane's orbalisks. Windu probably takes DoE Bane with Vaapad and shatterpoints, but I wouldn't be surprised if he came out with a limb or two missing.

I've changed my mind on one thing. I still vote Darth Bane for the win in this battle, but I declare ROTS Sidious more powerful than Darth Bane without his Orbalisk Armor. With it, I'm not so sure.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I've changed my mind on one thing. I still vote Darth Bane for the win in this battle, but I declare ROTS Sidious more powerful than Darth Bane without his Orbalisk Armor. With it, I'm not so sure.

G-Canon dictates that Sidious is the strongest sith lord ever of Bane's Sith Order. Sidious's Force Lightning should be powerful enough to fry Bane's orbalisk armor. Even Mace Windu almost got a face-ful of purple saber due to the lightning.

Originally posted by Vensai
G-Canon dictates that Sidious is the strongest sith lord ever of Bane's Sith Order.
IIRC the quote says nothing about "most powerful in Bane''s Sith order," it calls Sidious the most powerful Sith Lord in history though....

Originally posted by juggerman
Based on him taking on 4(?) of the most powerful/skilled Jedi of his time simultaneously while they were powered up by BM.

Correction. Bane took on only three Jedi empowered by BM (It's only four if we count the one using BM and he wasn't fighting) and one of the Jedi was utter shit.

Anyway, the idea that Bane stomps is straight up laughable.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
The speed feats are a display of bladework that he showed during a downpour in which he moved both his saber and body so quickly that not a single drop touched him.

Which is complete ****ing bullshit unless the raindrops were an absurdly far distance away from each other. The writer was obviously a complete moron in that instance.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Which is complete ****ing bullshit unless the raindrops were an absurdly far distance away from each other. The writer was obviously a complete moron in that instance.
This.

Plus Bane never displayed such a speed in actual combat, even when fighting for his life...

Originally posted by axel_jovan
This.

Plus Bane never displayed such a speed in actual combat, even when fighting for his life...

Dafuq are you talking about? He, as every time before, overwhelmed Zannah with sabers. The encounter speaks to the fact that she realized her death was inevitable if she continued trying to engage him with blades. Prior to that as already mentioned he also was fast enough to survive against her saber when he was unarmed and in an enclosed hallway. It was only when a mass of Darkside tentacles were going to eventually lead to his demise that he resorted to trying essence transfer against her.

Being completely serious here: you need to read the material if you're going to comment on it. You literally throw out some off-the-wall crap every time you try and speak to the Bane trilogy. Tempest hates the series and the deference some of us show Bane, but at least he argues his points with statements shored up by facts.

Also not sure what the prior comment by another saying that "Bane stomps" was about. No one claimed that in this thread.

Originally posted by Ascendancy

Also not sure what the prior comment by another saying that "Bane stomps" was about. No one claimed that in this thread.

?

You mean this:

Originally posted by juggerman
I would only change that RoT Bane stomps. He was pretty damn beastly and nearly unstoppable

With good reason, too. But then it makes sense that LucasFilm would reserve the EU's quality writers for Sidious and allow hacks like Karpyshyn to tackle nonfactors like Bane.



And you will all pay the price for your lack of vision.

/Sidious

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121010231655/starwars/images/thumb/6/64/InSidiousSmile-Revival.jpg/1024px-InSidiousSmile-Revival.jpg



You are redeeming yourself in my eyes, infidel. Continue with your tribute of me.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
?

You mean this:

Indeed. I stand corrected.

For Orbalisk Bane it again comes down to whether or not Shatterpoint can actually be utilized against them, though again it still seems unlikely that Windu could do enough damage quickly enough to take the day.

As for DoE Bane, his speed is ridiculous, but obviously Vaapad is going to aid Mace in that battle. He was capable of defeating Sidious so he is at least capable of defeating Bane. Whether he does or not depends on what Force techniques Bane is able to bring to bear and what advantages Vaapad leverages to Mace during the saber duel. We know how powerful Bane's lighting is, for instance, but we also know that Mace redirected that of Sidious, who was capable of ashing Sith worms with his.

It's not easy to just hand this to one opponent or the other. Mace defeating Sidious does not mean that he automatically beats every skilled duelist every time. Bane's speed and Force showings do not make him unstoppable either, though he is almost characterized that way.

Bane is the sole reason the Sith survived.
The Rule of Two saved the Sith.
I wouldn't say Bane is a non factor.

If Bane didn't create the rule of two Sidious wouldn't be as powerful as he is.
Or would have came up with the grand plan of destroying the Jedi or cloud their senses and vision.
Bane is the Foundation . Sidious is the successor.


Now the duel,
armored Bane? Windu with Vaapad reflecting the lightning thus electrocuting the obelisks.
Bane w/o obelisk armor? stalemate...

Bane bearly

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Bane bearly

Depends on which Bane it is. ROT Bane should take it while he loses without orbalisks.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Which is complete ****ing bullshit unless the raindrops were an absurdly far distance away from each other. The writer was obviously a complete moron in that instance.


And people are seriously overrating obralisk.
Windu as per RotS novel sliced lightsaber of Sidious in two in "precise ark". Wrists and head are enough targets to defeat Bane. Wrists and lightsaber hilt is where Jedi aim anyway.

Also, lets not forget Windu grappling Kar Vastor. If Windu turns it into grappling, Bane is a toast.

Originally posted by Arhael


And people are seriously overrating obralisk.
Windu as per RotS novel sliced lightsaber of Sidious in two in "precise ark". Wrists and head are enough targets to defeat Bane. Wrists and lightsaber hilt is where Jedi aim anyway.

Also, lets not forget Windu grappling Kar Vastor. If Windu turns it into grappling, Bane is a toast. Except his wrists are only partially exposed, and can not be cut off. It was attempted, he regen'd in a second.

Wrong. Bane I believe is larger than Vastor, and easily as strong, if not stronger.

Originally posted by Pwned
Except his wrists are only partially exposed, and can not be cut off. It was attempted, he regen'd in a second.

Wrong. Bane I believe is larger than Vastor, and easily as strong, if not stronger.
I don't know much info about obralisk but logically he should have vulnerable points everywhere, where his joints bend, otherwise he wouldn't be able to move comfortably. If someone failed to cut off his wrist, then his opponent simply missed the joint or only partially reached it. But that doesn't mean that even wrists can't be cut off.

"Wrong" and "I believe" don't really mix as we both give opinion on first place. And I don't agree that Bane compares to Kar Vastor in strength. Racially he wasn't as strong, neither he had potential of Kar Vastor, who was compared even to Yoda and Anakin and neither he had strength feats comparable to Kar Vastor.

Finally, I didn't say a word about strength. Strength is far from being the main factor in grappling. Both Kar Vastor and Windu are established as skilled unarmed combatants, which Bane is not.

Originally posted by Arhael
I don't know much info about obralisk but logically he should have vulnerable points everywhere, where his joints bend, otherwise he wouldn't be able to move comfortably. If someone failed to cut off his wrist, then his opponent simply missed the joint or only partially reached it. But that doesn't mean that even wrists can't be cut off.

"Wrong" and "I believe" don't really mix as we both give opinion on first place. And I don't agree that Bane compares to Kar Vastor in strength. Racially he wasn't as strong, neither he had potential of Kar Vastor, who was compared even to Yoda and Anakin and neither he had strength feats comparable to Kar Vastor.

Finally, I didn't say a word about strength. Strength is far from being the main factor in grappling. Both Kar Vastor and Windu are established as skilled unarmed combatants, which Bane is not.

Did you even read the freaking books? The opening is Bane having to freaking fight for his life against a dbag miner out to kill him. He then survived a knife fight against multiple trained soldiers when he was unarmed, then went on to serve in a military special ops unit himself. You're just trying to be dense if you think he lacks hand-to-hand skills.

As to size, read the descriptions: Bane is over six feet tall and ripped from his years in the mines.

As to the limbs, they possibly could be removed, but they are literally his only weak points. Again, in the novel--which it seems you neglected to glance at for salient points--the most skilled Jedi duelist makes precise strikes to sever his hand/nerves and he regens almost instantly. He was attacked by THREE Battle Meditation aided Jedi at once and they failed to sever anything. In the Orbalisks he is next to invincible against sabers. Zannah specifically stated that she knew he would be almost impossible to kill unless she could get him to get rid of the symbiotes.

RoT Bane wins but loses otherwise. Windu would Vaapad him back to the mines.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Did you even read the freaking books? The opening is Bane having to freaking fight for his life against a dbag miner out to kill him. He then survived a knife fight against multiple trained soldiers when he was unarmed, then went on to serve in a military special ops unit himself. You're just trying to be dense if you think he lacks hand-to-hand skills.

As to size, read the descriptions: Bane is over six feet tall and ripped from his years in the mines.


Of course I didn't, they are shit. So, it would be kind of you to provide quotes of how he fought against "dbag" and trained soldiers. You sure he made it because of unarmed combat skills or it's due to his Force talents? His soldier training quality is at question as well.

As of his size, who cares. Korun race naturally has better physical capabilities. Kar Vastor on top of that had power comparable to Yoda and Anakin. Windu, also, stalemated Sidious in saber lock. Such feats of strength are hard to beat for a Sith that doesn't compare to Sidious.


Glad you agree that wrists can be removed.

"Amplified by Worror's power, the Force flowed through him and guided his blade home. The contact wasn't perfect; his lightsaber glanced off the edge of the armored shells so that he only made shallow contact with the skin beneath. Instead of severing the hand, he merely sliced deep enough to sever nerves and tendons.

Bane bellowed in rage as his weapon slipped from his grasp, the wound leaving his fingers limp and powerless"

It's clear that wrists can be cut off, it's just Jedi's attack missed, yet, shin damage was still enought to disarm him.

Again I got horrified at what a crap writing it is.

Jedi aiming at his head as the only vulnerable place is particularly silly. Karpyshyn apparently doesn't know that disarming techniques exist, which can be as effective or even more effective than killing ones.

Windu against Sidious was on the defensive whole time and the only offensive move he made was non-lethal. Kick in the film and slicing lightsaber in half in the book.

Bane in a great fight. IMHO.

His wrists and head are the only exposed areas on him. His joints are not. His wrists are partially exposed, meaning you can not cut clean through them.

He dodged multiple sabers directed at his head mid-fight.

Bane was actually 2.1 meters tall, a little over seven feet. Yeah, that's bigger than Vastor.

Bane was trained in special operations, bit a guys thumb off, took on Republic soldiers unarmed, and could work a Hydraulic Drill for hours.

You attempt to low ball Bane without having read the books. I laugh at that.

Show me the quotes and page number where he is given the same power level as Yoda. I never saw that in my copy of Shatterpoint.

And strength does matter in grappling, because if the guy can just plain overpower you it won't really change much.



People hype up Vastor so much, but they fail to acknowledge how he is only that strong in the jungles of Haruun Kal where he is completely attuned to the planet. Anywhere else and Mace would have demolished him.

Later in the book? Mace pwned him. Still on Haruun Kal.



EDIT: And having just read the article on Korun, there is nothing to suggest they are larger or more physically capable than normal Humans other than their environment forcing it. That's not inherent.

As I said his joints are exposed:
concentrating their attacks on his face and the joints of his wrist where the orbalisks had left tiny gaps in his armor.
The attacks don't need to cut clean through, even "shallow contact" can be enough to disarm.

Jedi would not aim at head anyway, they utilize mostly disarming techniques. It's either bad writing that those Jedi aimed at head instead of trying to disarm him or they are that stupid for real.

Do you actually know Kar Vastor height? I don't and wookieepedia didn't help either.

Republic soldiers and a drill don't compare to Kar Vastor or Windu.

Oh, as if you read every single book. It's very common for people to lowball characters without knowing much about them. In my case I am aware of all his important feats. I have ebook on me, it's just I use it to get feats only.

Here is the quote:
Such power-and such control-and never a day of training. Because what he does is natural: as natural as the jungle itself. We Jedi train our entire lives: to control our natural emotions, to overcome our natural desires. We give up so much for our power. And what Jedi could have done this?"

I could not answer; Vastor has power on the scale of Master Yoda, or young Anakin Skywalker. And I had no desire to debate with Depa on Jedi tradition, and the necessary distinction between dark and light.
Sorry, can't tell you exact page, I have the book as txt file.
Also, description of his physicality from Shadows of Mindor:
For an interminable stretching moment after the meltmassif egg had collapsed, all Luke had been able to do was stare blankly and think. Look at the size of him...

Kar Vastor crouched before the obsidian throne like a sabercat coiled to spring. One of his enormous hands rested on a blob of meltmassif perched on the throne's seat. His lips had peeled back to reveal teeth long and curving and sharp as stilettos. Luke blinked, and blinked again. Each of his biceps is bigger than my head...
..
He reached out with the Force and slammed shut the Falcon's hatch just as the Vastor body lurched to its feet and reached Luke in one lightning bound. Impossibly powerful hands seized Luke's shoulders as Vastor lifted him like a doll, and shook him and roared rage and bloodlust into his face, and there was nothing human left in Vastor's eyes. He sank his teeth into Luke's throat, and bit down.

As you see, the hype about Vastor's strength is not unreasonable.

Strength matters but there are ways to counter it, it's only part of equation. In any case Kar Vastor is the one who has unnatural strength and control in abundance, not Bane. I am actually helping you. I give you room to argue that Bane can counter enormous strength of Vastor with skill.

I do acknowledge that he was that strong because of the jungles. But that's irrelevant. Windu is the subject of this topic. You are actually helping me. Windu pawning Vastor still on Haruun Kal makes it much moire impressive.

Yes, they are stronger because environment forcing. It's irrelevant why they are stronger than human, all that matter is that they are stronger.

Can he regen. a decapitated head?
The only area and the main shatter point that is not covered w/obelisks?

I think it's hard to dispute that Bane and Mace are on even tier in a lightsaber duel, if Mace were to have an advantage in thereof, it would be a slim win. Especially because Orbalisks protect most of his vital organs.

And I also think it's hard to dispute that Bane has a more than clear superiority to Mace in a competition of the Force. While Mace Windu could stop his lightning via his lightsaber, Bane also has superior Telekinesis, and easily has the superior arcane prowess.

So honestly, I find it hard to dispute Bane's superiority to Mace. In Mace's defense, however, he was able to stalemate Palpatine against all odds, so who knows?

I'm still voting both DoE and RoT Bane for the win though.

GREAT BATTLE!! i think mace is defiantly worthy of a duel with bane but my money is on the Darth.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Can he regen. a decapitated head?
The only area and the main shatter point that is not covered w/obelisks?

I don't see that being an easy target for Windu. Granted that to an extent Johun was getting in the way, but Farfalla, a noted duelist, and Lsu, the greatest duelist of her era bolstered by her shunning of any means of using the Force other than aiding her saber combat, were unable to decapitate Bane, so I doubt Windu acting alone, even pumped by Vaapad could get within his defenses long enough to take Bane's head.

If we're talking overall capability, I'd put my money on Lsu and Farfalla killing a solo Windu every day of the week, and as a team they certainly put about every bit of saberwork capable towards removing Bane's head from body.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I don't see that being an easy target for Windu. Granted that to an extent Johun was getting in the way, but Farfalla, a noted duelist, and Lsu, the greatest duelist of her era bolstered by her shunning of any means of using the Force other than aiding her saber combat, were unable to decapitate Bane, so I doubt Windu acting alone, even pumped by Vaapad could get within his defenses long enough to take Bane's head.

If we're talking overall capability, I'd put my money on Lsu and Farfalla killing a solo Windu every day of the week, and as a team they certainly put about every bit of saberwork capable towards removing Bane's head from body.

I didn't say it would be easy,I agree with some of what you say...
Johun couldn't geat Bane if you taught him Juyo
Lsu,yes maybe....The key word you said was duelest,follow me if I'm right,
Farfalla was Form II practitioner was he not?

Lsu?They said the same things about Sora ,Dooku, Cin.
They were beaten,easily I might add.
These two beating Mace? I doubt it....

Bane took them down with either Djem So or Juyo
Or both somehow combined.
These Masters you speak were powered by battle meditation and still lost....
Even with the Power of Battle Meditation they couldn't get near his head!!!!

To kill a Form Vll specialist/Master It would take another Form Vll specialist /Master
If you follow the Physical intensity the style demands...the code of honor..thing

Any body can use the Force (easy) way out.
My question is can they do it?
Mace will have better chances then these Masters you spoke of.....
It won't be easy but Mace is the best choice even if he dies tring....

Good debate....

RoT Bane with Orbalisks should take it after a hard fight. DoE Bane dies painfully though.

Good point,but the DoE Bane concerns me a little.
It won't be an easy fight none are never easy....This Bane you don't want to underestimate....
I mean Zannah barely got the win....It's that spirit transfer that got me a little concerned .
A Battle of wills were Mace and Bane fight for control of his body......scary......