Depa Billaba vs. Darth Maul

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Excalibur2776
Who would win in a battle to the death?
Setting: Open Field, Dantooine
Scenario One: Depa Billaba vs. Darth Maul (TPM)
Lightsabers:
Force:
All Out:
Scenario Two: Depa Billaba vs. Darth Maul (TCW)
Lightsabers:
Force:
All Out:

P.S. Depa is Dark Side in both scenarios.

Galan007
As far as I know, Depa's best 'feat' occurred when Mace stated that her bladework surpassed his own-- a compliment that was never proven, as Mace held back enormously when they fought in Shatterpoint. I can't even recall any force feats of note from her..?

Maul should take this handily.

DarthAnt66
Like I have stated in the Kenobi vs Depa..she fought Mace when he was only about 80-85% of his true power. When she was no longer being supported by the fear of citizens, I say she is around 70% of Mace's full power. It is also noted that Qui-Gon was able to duel evenly with Mace in his prime, and during Jinn's Prime to TPM was probably only ten years, therefore probably making it Jinn Prime=90% of Mace ROTS. Therefore, a Jinn TPM would=80% of Mace's full power. Since I just put Jinn>Depa, and I put Maul and Jinn equals, I think it's safe to say Maul TPM wins, as does the CW.

Lightsabers: Draw due to the fact that Maul is a better duelist, but Depa has Vaapad to aid her.

Force: I don't really think Force will be that big of a factor here, but I'm giving the edge to Maul with his feats shown in the CW.

ALL OUT: I'm giving both Mauls the win due to reasons said above. CW Maul has a slightly easier time.

Galan007
Mace never so much as attempted to fight back against Depa-- he barely even began to tap into Vaapad(do I need to post the quotes?) Therefore, we have no way to approximate "what %" of his power/skill she equated to.

Furthermore, it has never been stated in a canon source that Qui-Gon=Mace. That, sir, is an internet rumor falsely propagated by Wookiepedia.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Galan007
Mace never so much as attempted to fight back against Depa-- he barely even began to tap into Vaapad(do I need to post the quotes?) Therefore, we have no way to approximate "what %" of his power/skill she equated to.

Furthermore, it has never been stated in a canon source that Qui-Gon=Mace. That, sir, is an internet rumor falsely propagated by Wookiepedia.

Well the % and = are opinions are they not? And Im a fan of Wookiepedia smile but it has been stated in the Power of the Jedi soucebook im not correct..

Galan007
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well the % and = are opinions are they not? You are absolutely entitled to your own opinions, but some of the info you mentioned is a bit... Skewed. No biggie. smile

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And Im a fan of Wookiepedia smile but it has been stated in the Power of the Jedi soucebook im not correct.. No, it has not. Believe me, I've looked. Thoroughly. Heck, I've scoured every SW-related sourcebook/handbook/guide/encyclopedia/etc. that Mace and Qui-Gon have ever been mentioned in, and have yet to find a quote stating Qui-Gon=Mace. That's why I can say, with a fair amount of confidence, that said quote doesn't exist in canon material.

DarthAnt66
Hmm..curious about the Jinn=Mace is fake..but until its proven noncanon, im classifying it has cannon.

Galan007
I proved the quote non-canon when I was unable to find it in the book Wookiepedia references(or any other book for that matter.) Don't be purposefully obtuse.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Galan007
I proved the quote non-canon when I was unable to find it in the book Wookiepedia references(or any other book for that matter.) Don't be purposefully obtuse.

I classify Wookieedpedia as cannon until proven noncannon

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well the % and = are opinions are they not? And Im a fan of Wookiepedia smile but it has been stated in the Power of the Jedi soucebook im not correct..

No it wasn't I have a PDF of the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook and the quote is no where to be found.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I classify Wookieedpedia as cannon until proven noncannon

It is now a canon source considering even the official page links it for character bios but that's only because it is a collection of previous source material. Fan wanking doesn't count.

Galan007
Cool. I proved the quote non-canon by not being able to find it in any canon book(even the book Wookiepedia specifically referenced.)

...But I guess it's easier to be a 'tard than accept fact, so cheers to that. thumb up

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Galan007
Cool. I proved the quote non-canon by not being able to find it in any canon book(even the book Wookiepedia specifically referenced.)

...But I guess it's easier to be a 'tard than accept fact, so cheers to that. thumb up

Aren't you sweet erm

Excalibur2776
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Aren't you sweet erm
What's your YouTube channel? (Your title says YouTuber)

DarthAnt66
http://www.youtube.com/user/0827ant1

755 subscribers 288,915 views

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Galan007
As far as I know, Depa's best 'feat' occurred when Mace stated that her bladework surpassed his own-- a compliment that was never proven, as Mace held back enormously when they fought in Shatterpoint. I can't even recall any force feats of note from her..?

Maul should take this handily.

Hardly.

I believe Mace implied that healthy or no, she had grown as deadly as him with Vapaad, and try as he might to at least defend - she was still able to stab him.

TPM Maul gets raped by Dark side Vapaad-Depa.

Depa also beats TCW Maul in a close fight.

Jedi Mom
Originally posted by CountDooku22
Depa also beats TCW Maul in a close fight.
Bold claim. Evidence for this?

Excalibur2776
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://www.youtube.com/user/0827ant1

755 subscribers 288,915 views
Just subbed to you! big grin

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Bold claim. Evidence for this?

Yep. It's one word.

It starts with a "V", ends with a "d" and has "apaa" in the middle.

And it seals the deal.

Jedi Mom
Won't help until you prove that Maul can't dominate her with the force.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I classify Wookieedpedia as cannon until proven noncannon

It's a fabricated quote, dude. It was supposed to be in the TPM novel. I have read the novel. It is not.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by NewGuy01
supposed

Key word smile

Galan007
Originally posted by CountDooku22
Hardly.

I believe Mace implied that healthy or no, she had grown as deadly as him with Vapaad, and try as he might to at least defend - she was still able to stab him. Mace made a few comments pertaining to Depa's swordsmanship-- I even referenced one of those statements earlier. However, what I'm saying is that her battle with Mace certainly doesn't equate to her having uber saber feats, because Mace purposefully held back. He did not want to fight her. He did not want to harm her. He definitely did not want to kill her. Heck, he even restrained himself from fully tapping into Vaapad. The following excerpts were all taken from Shatterpoint:

She screamed as she triggered her blade. And kept screaming as its green fire chewed a tunnel through Mace's guts and speared out his back. His hand seized hers instinctively, locking her blade against his body so that she could not kill him by slashing it free. His own blade ignited-But he could not strike her. Even now. Not here, so close he could kiss her instead; not while her scream spiraled up into a shriek; not while he had to look into her wide staring eyes and see no hate or rage but only stark agony.
---
The slashes never stopped. They would never stop. They flowed one into the next with liquid precision. This constant near-invisible weave of lethal energy is the ready-stance of Vaapad. "Depa," Mace said desperately. "I don't want to fight you. Depa, please."
---
Mace backpedaled, parrying frantically, absorbing the shock of her attacks with bent arms and a two-handed grip. He was taller than she, with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but she drove him backward as though he were a child. Green flame struck through his guard, and only a frantic jerk of his head turned what would have been a brain-burning thrust into a line of char along his cheekbone. Still he did not strike back. "I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain."
---
Through the trace of Force connection he had with Nick, Mace felt the young Korun collapse. Something broke inside his head, and all his own wounds crashed upon him. Every cut and bruise, every cracked bone and sprained joint, the man-bite on his shoulder and the hole through his guts: all of them blossomed into silent screams. His lightsaber went heavy, and his arms went slow. She burned a stripe across his chest, and he staggered. His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it. It was waiting for him in the dark. He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-And turned away. He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides. Depa moved in for the kill. Mace backed away. She leaped for him, slashing, and he slipped aside. She pressed her attack and he retreated, over bodies and through blaster-riddled wreckage of console banks, until he came hard up against a console that still had power: indicator lights flashed like droid eyes in the gloom. The blade of green fire whirled up, poised, and struck. He let himself collapse.


Depa was good, don't get me wrong. She also knew Vaapad very well(per Mace.) But her fight with the aforementioned simply isn't a good way to gauge her saber skills due to Mace's self-imposed power-neutering-- of which was reinforced by the author multiple times.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Galan007
Mace made a few comments pertaining to Depa's swordsmanship-- I even referenced one of those statements above. However, what I'm saying is that her battle with Mace certainly doesn't equate to her having uber saber feats, because Mace purposefully held back. He did not want to fight her. He did not want to harm her. He definitely didn't want to kill her. Heck, he even restrained himself from fully tapping into Vaapad. The following passages were all takes from Shatterpoint:

Depa was good, don't get me wrong. She also knew Vaapad very well(per Mace.) But her fight with the aforementioned simply isn't a good way to gauge her saber skills.

Mace backpedaled, parrying frantically, absorbing the shock of her attacks with bent arms and a two-handed grip. He was taller than she, with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but she drove him backward as though he were a child.

Her power within Vapaad had climbed enough where she could match Mace's attributes with this power, as Mace had noticed.

It's enough to understand that she would wreck TPM Darth Maul with it, and beat TCW Maul in a very close match.

Galan007
"I don't want to fight you. Depa, please."

"Still he did not strike back. "I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain.""

Ignoring context, ftw!

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Galan007
"I don't want to fight you. Depa, please."

"Still he did not strike back. "I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain.""

Ignoring context, ftw!

Just because he doesn't want to fight her or kill her, doesn't mean he can't block and evade all of her Vapaad-fueled attacks, if it were in his ability.

Which it wasn't.

Which is my point.

He couldn't simply defend against her attacks, and Vapaad had given her the power to match his attributes.

Attributes that are considerably higher than TPM Maul's and somewhat higher than TCW Maul's.

Making this fight in Depa's favor.

Galan007
Originally posted by CountDooku22
Just because he doesn't want to fight her or kill her, doesn't mean he can't block and evade all of her Vapid-fueled attacks, if it were in his ability.

Which it wasn't. ...Because he wouldn't allow himself to embrace the darkness-- to embrace Vaapad. Essentially, he was defending against her attacks as well as he could without tapping into Vaapad, and without the will to harm her.

"His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it. It was waiting for him in the dark. He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-And turned away. He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides."

Context is key. Don't ignore it. smile

Vensai
Windu didn't want to fight back against Depa and wasn't using Vaapad. And yet he survived the duel. Depas performance there does not mean she would beat peak Windu. He even states it was the worst day of his life.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Galan007
...Because he wouldn't allow himself to embrace the darkness-- to embrace Vaapad. Essentially, he was defending against her attacks as well as he could without tapping into Vaapad, and without the will to harm her.


You don't need the will to harm somebody, to defend adequately against their attacks.


Originally posted by Galan007

"His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it. It was waiting for him in the dark. He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-And turned away. He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides."

Context is key. Don't ignore it. smile

And that might mean something if Maul had Vapaad; does he?

Mace without Vapaad could take both variations of Maul - albeit with much more difficulty.

And still, Mace's powerful attributes and expert skill couldn't stop her from impaling him and scarring him up.

Again, she takes both versions of Maul with lesser and greater difficulty, but she takes them.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Vensai
Windu didn't want to fight back against Depa and wasn't using Vaapad. And yet he survived the duel. Depas performance there does not mean she would beat peak Windu. He even states it was the worst day of his life.

Peak Windu would be ROTS Windu, so of course not.

Galan007
Originally posted by CountDooku22
You don't need the will to harm somebody, to defend adequately against their attacks. You DO need the will to fight, though, and Mace clearly didn't have that-- hence why he sheathed his saber during the battle.

Originally posted by CountDooku22
And that might mean something if Maul had Vapaad; does he?

Mace without Vapaad could take both variations of Maul - albeit with much more difficulty.

And still, Mace's powerful attributes and expert skill couldn't stop her from impaling him and scarring him up.

Again, she takes both versions of Maul with lesser and greater difficulty, but she takes them. If Mace went into a battle against Maul without wanting to fight, without wanting to harm, without wanting to kill, and without using Vaapad, he'd be killed in an instant(hell, Depa nearly killed him with these stips.) It is a very simple concept to grasp.

But yeah, go ahead and ignore the blatant context of the battle. thumb up

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Galan007
You DO need the will to fight, though, and Mace clearly didn't have that-- hence why he sheathed his saber during the battle.

He didn't lack the will to actively keep her from trying to kill him; and his lightsaber was activated.

His blade whirred through the air. Hers whirred faster. She advanced. And with each stroke of her blade, he could feel himself slipping into the shadows. He had to.
She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give all of himself.

Oh hey, he's using Vapaad too, what a surprise.

Originally posted by Galan007

If Mace went into a battle against Maul without wanting to fight, without wanting to harm, without wanting to kill, and without using Vaapad, he'd be killed in an instant(hell, Depa nearly killed him with these stips.) It is a very simple concept to grasp.

But yeah, go ahead and ignore the blatant context of the battle. thumb up

"stips"?

Luckily, in Mace's skirmish with Depa, he still wanted to physically have his blade activated, and wanted to attempt to actively block her attacks, so he wouldn't, you know, die.

And:

His blade whirred through the air. Hers whirred faster. She advanced. And with each stroke of her blade, he could feel himself slipping into the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give all of himself.

Her power within Vapaad was too great for him to keep her from stabbing him; cutting him up.

It negated his powerful attributes and his expert skill with a lightsaber - and even a Vapaadless-Mace can block better than both versions of Maul.

But he can't simply block Depa's attacks - she's too fast and powerful for Mace, there.

Too fast and powerful when he's tapping Vapaad, as well.

And too powerful and fast for Maul, too.

Excalibur2776
Originally posted by CountDooku22
You don't need the will to harm somebody, to defend adequately against their attacks.
I remember saying that to you about Luke vs. Vader ROTJ

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Excalibur2776
I remember saying that to you about Luke vs. Vader ROTJ

Yeah but when Vader's own attacks are deliberately watered-down, Luke's defending against them doesn't really mean anything.

Excalibur2776
Originally posted by CountDooku22
Yeah but when Vader's own attacks are deliberately watered-down, Luke's defending against them doesn't really mean anything.
No, I mean when Luke is attacking Vader, as you said before, you don't need the will to harm somebody, to defend adequately against their attacks ... and that's what I said in the ROTJ Luke Gauntlet thread and you were against that idea ... but I guess its a double standard now.

Galan007
Originally posted by CountDooku22
He didn't lack the will to actively keep her from trying to kill him; and his lightsaber was activated.

His blade whirred through the air. Hers whirred faster. She advanced. And with each stroke of her blade, he could feel himself slipping into the shadows. He had to.
She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give all of himself.

Oh hey, he's using Vapaad too, what a surprise. laughing out loud Now you're purposefully posting out of context statements. Here is the very next sentence after the clipped excerpt you posted:
"He felt it: he had reached his own shatterpoint. And he was breaking."

Why was Mace "breaking"? Because he knew that to win meant immersing himself in Vaapad and potentially killing his old Padawan-- something he never intended to do from the start:
"I don't want to fight you. Depa, please."

"Still he did not strike back. "I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain.""


And once more: immediately after that scene, Mace knew that he could easily channel his darkness and immerse himself in Vaapad-- but he CHOSE NOT TO:
"His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it. It was waiting for him in the dark. He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-And turned away. He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides."

Mace never used Vaapad. He thought about it, but never did. It's right there in black and white.

Damn, the trolls in this forum are true idiots.

ROTJ Vader
Maul obviously. Windu didint even want too hurt Depa and was on the verge of death and owned her badly. Obviously Maul does to. Theres no way Depa could take Fisto who i'd put above TPM Maul.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Galan007
As far as I know, Depa's best 'feat' occurred when Mace stated that her bladework surpassed his own-- a compliment that was never proven, as Mace held back enormously when they fought in Shatterpoint. I can't even recall any force feats of note from her..?

Maul should take this handily.

Does anyone have Shatterpoint handy? I'd like a full quote of the fight as there seem to be discrepancies.

NewGuy01
Lol @ Depa>Mace.

Let's see here... Depa was amped by the united fear of an entire city, and was empowered by the Dark Side, and was fully intent on killing Mace.

Mace was unamped, had broken bones, was previously stabbed, bitten, and beaten, and to top it off--He completely had no intention of harming Depa whatsoever.

I'd say Maul could fair just as well against Windu in such a circumstance... He wins.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Key word smile

So if I wet on the wookie and put that QuiGon fought Sidious and defeated him, forcing him to flee, and said it was in shadow hunter, and it wasnt, you'd believe it anyway for the Lulz?

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Excalibur2776
No, I mean when Luke is attacking Vader, as you said before, you don't need the will to harm somebody, to defend adequately against their attacks ... and that's what I said in the ROTJ Luke Gauntlet thread and you were against that idea ... but I guess its a double standard now.

Vader was arguably more conflicted about killing Luke, than Mace was about simply engaging Depa.

Vader's goal was ultimately to help bring Luke over the the Dark side - or destroy him if need be.

Vader had already previously experienced the overwhelming epiphany of the fact that he really loved his son - enough so that the Emperor took notice of this before Luke's strike-team landed on Endor's forest moon.

Even though Vader loved Luke, he was supposed to kill him - and this, coupled with the fact that he was already haunted by making a similar costly mistake before, crippled him mentally - thus his watered-down attacks, and inability to defend intelligently.


- With Mace, on Haruun Kal, he faced a weakened-Depa and unlike Vader, was not forced with the psychological-protocol of having to kill her - he could just simply knock her out if needed.

And he tried - and failed, because she had grown too strong, even for that:


He brought his blade back up from the pit and turn
ed his wrist on the
forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his
lightsaber's butt. Her fingers slipped off the blade's activation plate
and it shrank back down through his body. She howled and punched his
eyesocket with her free ha
nd, but Mace got his foot wedged between them
and he shoved her away with a powerful thrust.
At the same instant both of them backflipped into the air, landing on
their feet poised in perfect mirror images, their blades whipping in
identically curving s
lashes almost too fast to see.

Having the hilt of a lightsaber slammed into her temple should have knocked her out - and it was with this method Mace could have simply and very well ended it.

But she was too strong for that.

He could have tried for another strike to her temple - but she was getting faster and stronger - and soon, even after tapping into Vapaad - Mace could not keep up with her speed and power.

So if he were quicker than her, after tapping into Vapaad, he could have knocked her out like he would have preferred - but not only was she too fast for him to lay a blow on her - she was too fast for him, period.

She had stabbed him, and cut him up badly, and he couldn't block all her attacks, try as he might.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Galan007
laughing out loud Now you're purposefully posting out of context statements. Here is the very next sentence after the clipped excerpt you posted:
"He felt it: he had reached his own shatterpoint. And he was breaking."
Why was Mace "breaking"? Because he knew that to win meant immersing himself in Vaapad and potentially killing his old Padawan-- something he never intended to do from the start:
"I don't want to fight you. Depa, please."
"Still he did not strike back. "I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain.""
And once more: immediately after that scene, Mace knew that he could easily channel his darkness and immerse himself in Vaapad-- but he CHOSE NOT TO:
"His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it. It was waiting for him in the dark. He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-And turned away. He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides."
Mace never used Vaapad. He thought about it, but never did. It's right there in black and white.
Damn, the trolls in this forum are true idiots.

You ended up only insulting yourself, and displaying the conveyance than you're in denial.

Mace was tapping into Vapaad:

And with each stroke of her blade,
he could feel himself slipping into
the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The
only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give
all of himself.

More.

So he had tapped into Vapaad - the only question was, would he give all of himself?

So are you trolling me then; and are you the idiot, after all?

You would do well not to accidentally insult yourself.

- Now aside from that, the point I was making is that even after tapping into Vapaad - Depa was too fast and too powerful >She was too strong, too fast, too everything.< for him to even block all her attacks.

She was too fast for him to defend all her strikes; too strong to prevent him from breaking through his powerful guard, and he couldn't knock her out by violently slamming a steel rod into her temple which would result in a lot of blood and a bad hemorrhage.

He was not physically or through the Force, capable of any of that - she was too powerful for him, even when he was tapping into Vapaad.

Were he capable, he could simply block all her attacks, and knock her out.

But she was too fast for him, and too powerful - too fast for the Master of the Council to simply defend against; too powerful for him to defeat via ramming a steel rod against the vein in her head.

Even when tapping into Vapaad, he could not defend against her - and her Vapaad had indeed given her the power to match Mace's raw speed and surpass his strength.

And it is with these attributes, which were so clearly displayed and outlined, that she would dominate a TPM Maul, and narrowly defeat a TCW Maul.

Anything other than realizing this, is idiocy and denial.

That should clear up any confusion you might have.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by CountDooku22

And it is with these attributes, which were so clearly displayed and outlined, that she would dominate a TPM Maul, and narrowly defeat a TCW Maul.



I don't really believe the difference between TPM and CW Maul is that huge tbh.

CW Maul was filled with more rage to feed off, which essentially makes him more powerful in the dark side of the force, but he was also out of action for 10+years.

All his skill, training and mastery was at it's peak at TPM time. His rage and power in the force peaked at CW time.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't really believe the difference between TPM and CW Maul is that huge tbh.

CW Maul was filled with more rage to feed off, which essentially makes him more powerful in the dark side of the force, but he was also out of action for 10+years.

All his skill, training and mastery was at it's peak at TPM time. His rage and power in the force peaked at CW time.

thumb up Good point.

Maul should offer Depa little challenge before he dies.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lol @ Depa>Mace.

Don't confuse yourself.

More so Vapaad-Depa = Mace.

But not beyond Mace.



Originally posted by NewGuy01

Let's see here... Depa was amped by the united fear of an entire city, and was empowered by the Dark Side, and was fully intent on killing Mace.
Mace and Depa were both tapped into Vapaad - and Mace was fully intent on smashing his lightsaber hilt into Depa's skull.

he could feel himself slipping into
the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The
only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give
all of himself.

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt.




Originally posted by NewGuy01

Mace, had broken bones, was previously stabbed, bitten, and beaten,
- And Depa was emaciated, had lost tons of weight, was weakened and disheveled.

And she was in pain.

She drew the curtain aside.
She sat on the edge of a long, padded chaise. She wore the tatters of
Jedi robes over the rough homespun of a jungle Korun. Her hair was as he
had seen at the outpost: ragged, greasy, hacked short as though she'd
used a knife to trim it without the benefit of a mirror. Her face was
every bit as thin as he had seen it: her cheekbones sharp, and her jaw going prominent. The burn scar was there, from one corner of her hardship-thinned mouth to the point of her jaw- But instead of a blindfold, she wore the strip of dirty rag tied around her forehead, concealing the Greater Mark of Illumination.

The Lesser Mark still glinted gold on the bridge of her nose, and though
her eyes were bloodshot and pain-haunted, her gaze was clear, and level,
and, after all, she was Depa Billaba.


And she was smaller and weaker than him:

He was taller than she, with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but she drove him backward as though he were a child.



Originally posted by NewGuy01

Mace was unamped and to top it off--He completely had no intention of harming Depa whatsoever.

Wrong.

Mace was armed - and he had the intention of smashing a steel rod into Depa's skull

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt.



Originally posted by NewGuy01

I'd say Maul could fair just as well against Windu in such a circumstance... He wins. laughing
Maul would get raped by Windu in that circumstance.

And Maul would get dominated by Depa Billaba.

Maul loses.

Cobalt237
Originally posted by CountDooku22
Don't confuse yourself.

More so Vapaad-Depa = Mace.

But not beyond Mace.




Mace and Depa were both tapped into Vapaad - and Mace was fully intent on smashing his lightsaber hilt into Depa's skull.

he could feel himself slipping into
the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The
only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give
all of himself.

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt.





- And Depa was emaciated, had lost tons of weight, was weakened and disheveled.

And she was in pain.

She drew the curtain aside.
She sat on the edge of a long, padded chaise. She wore the tatters of
Jedi robes over the rough homespun of a jungle Korun. Her hair was as he
had seen at the outpost: ragged, greasy, hacked short as though she'd
used a knife to trim it without the benefit of a mirror. Her face was
every bit as thin as he had seen it: her cheekbones sharp, and her jaw going prominent. The burn scar was there, from one corner of her hardship-thinned mouth to the point of her jaw- But instead of a blindfold, she wore the strip of dirty rag tied around her forehead, concealing the Greater Mark of Illumination.

The Lesser Mark still glinted gold on the bridge of her nose, and though
her eyes were bloodshot and pain-haunted, her gaze was clear, and level,
and, after all, she was Depa Billaba.


And she was smaller and weaker than him:

He was taller than she, with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but she drove him backward as though he were a child.





Wrong.

Mace was armed - and he had the intention of smashing a steel rod into Depa's skull

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt.



laughing
Maul would get raped by Windu in that circumstance.

And Maul would get dominated by Depa Billaba.

Maul loses.

thumb up

you did homework i see.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Cobalt237
thumb up

you did homework i see.

I love Shatterpoint.

I own two copies of the book (one original print with gold-foil font).

I probably read it recreationally the most out of all my books.


If George Lucas were smart, he'd turn it into a feature film.

But that's probably expecting too much.

Mizukage Yoda
So how does Depa fair against other greats like Sidious, Yoda, and Dooku? I mean obviously she goes down, but how long does she last?

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
So how does Depa fair against other greats like Sidious, Yoda, and Dooku? I mean obviously she goes down, but how long does she last?

Not very well.

In Shatterpoint, Depa Billaba in her Vapaad-state was close to being on par with AotC Mace, as Mace knew he would have to give in to Vapaad as she did, in order to survive her in a straight-confrontation.

ROTS Dooku would probably get killed by her (perhaps), but she would be crushed by Sidious and Yoda after a moderately difficult duel.

She's AotC Mace-level - just barely.

And that's not enough to handle the likes of Yoda or Sidious.

I'd give her perhaps close to a minute against Sidious - thirty seconds against Yoda.

Depending on the terrain.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22

ROTS Dooku would probably get killed by her (perhaps), but she would be crushed by Sidious and Yoda after a moderately difficult duel.


Wut? Dooku is beyond AOTC Mace Windu.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Wut? Dooku is beyond AOTC Mace Windu.

Her Vapaad-advantage would mean she could utilize her own darkness as a weapon/fuel, and also siphon the bleed-off from Dooku's Force aura to power her attacks and stamina.

If Dooku is beyond AotC Mace, it's probably not by leaps and bounds.

I think Dooku might kill her in a straight duel - but then again, perhaps her Vapaad would give her the edge to pull through, ala Mace-Sidious.

But that's up to anyone's speculation.

Jedi Mom
Does she even have any force feats?

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Does she even have any force feats?

Mace had enough command of the Force to incapacitate the Lor Pelek Kar Vastor.

And during his fight with Depa, he didn't want to kill her - but he did want to incapacitate her if possible, as evidenced by his attempting to bash her skull with his lightsaber.

If the powerful Jedi Master had had the ability to halt Depa with the Force, he would have done so gladly.

But he knew he couldn't, which speaks to Depa probably having formidable Force attributes, along with her command of Vapaad, of course.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
Her Vapaad-advantage would mean she could utilize her own darkness as a weapon/fuel, and also siphon the bleed-off from Dooku's Force aura to power her attacks and stamina.

If Dooku is beyond AotC Mace, it's probably not by leaps and bounds.

I think Dooku might kill her in a straight duel - but then again, perhaps her Vapaad would give her the edge to pull through, ala Mace-Sidious.

But that's up to anyone's speculation.

Mace got a powerboost during Shatterpoint, and yet in Dark Rendezvous it's stated that even then Mace would barely be his equal.

Depa may be formidable, but is she really that much more powerful than Sora Bulq? And we've seen how Bulq's Vaapad lasted against Dooku's considerable force powers, and that's with Master Tholme backing him up.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Mace got a powerboost during Shatterpoint, and yet in Dark Rendezvous it's stated that even then Mace would barely be his equal.

Hmm.

I don't believe Mace got a power boost in Shatterpoint, but if you know where this occurred, please point it out to me.

True that in Dark Rendezvous they were stated to be perhaps equals - and later in the comics Mace and Dooku also tangled at one point - ending in a stalemate.

Evidently, after that Dooku didn't grow much in dueling ability, but as we all know, Mace of course, did.

So yeah, ROTS Dooku likely wouldn't be that much better in dueling than AotC Mace - probably somewhat more skilled.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Depa may be formidable, but is she really that much more powerful than Sora Bulq? And we've seen how Bulq's Vaapad lasted against Dooku's considerable force powers, and that's with Master Tholme backing him up.

I love those comics, been years since I read 'em, though.

I remember Quinlan Vos killing Bulq.

Yeah, it could probably go either way between a Vapaad-tapped Depa and Dooku.

But if Dooku used his powers, I'm sure he would overpower and destroy her.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
Hmm.

I don't believe Mace got a power boost in Shatterpoint, but if you know where this occurred, please point it out to me.

True that in Dark Rendezvous they were stated to be perhaps equals - and later in the comics Mace and Dooku also tangled at one point - ending in a stalemate.

I am pretty sure it states that the events of Shatterpoint made Mace more powerful for his duel with Sidious in ROTS.


He became a more powerful Sith Lord.
ROTS Dooku~ROTS Windu>AOTC Windu>Depa


More skilled yes.






Bulq lost due to overconfidence imo. I don't think it could go either way. I am positive Dooku would down Depa in raw sabers and in the force. Unlike Mace, Dooku will be going for the kill.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I am pretty sure it states that the events of Shatterpoint made Mace more powerful for his duel with Sidious in ROTS.

Oh, of course.

I thought you were implying something else. stick out tongue



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

He became a more powerful Sith Lord.
ROTS Dooku~ROTS Windu>AOTC Windu>Depa

I'm thinking not so much, since a saber monkey like Anakin took him out.

ROTS Dooku definitely isn't on par with ROTS Mace, in most respects, at least where his Vapaad and Shatterpoint are concerned.

And while Depa is barely on par with AotC Mace, Vapaad might give her an edge against a duel with Dooku.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

More skilled yes.

Surely somewhat more skilled. Even though later Anakin dropped him.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Bulq lost due to overconfidence imo. I don't think it could go either way. I am positive Dooku would down Depa in raw sabers and in the force. Unlike Mace, Dooku will be going for the kill.

Vapaad-tapped Mace wasn't able to actively block all of her attacks, and he was legitimately trying to block them - so I would wonder if Dooku could, or if in her Vapaad-enhanced rage, she would cut him down.

But I agree in raw Force attacks Dooku could take her down.

Jedi Mom
Dooku IS on par with RotS Mace.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Dooku IS on par with RotS Mace.

If you can prove that Anakin could beat Mace -

And that Dooku could beat Sidious..

Then I would agree with you.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by CountDooku22

I'm thinking not so much, since a saber monkey like Anakin took him out.



Saber monkey? Really?


Originally posted by CountDooku22
If you can prove that Anakin could beat Mace -

Why should he prove that when there's no proof Mace could beat Skywalker?

We have 2 comparisons of them. One by the stunt co-ordinator of ROTS who says they are in the same league. And second the alternate ending of the ROTS video game which has Skywalker beating Mace.

I'm not saying either proves Skywalker to be better, but it certainly seems like they are on a similar level.

Anyway you seem to be ignoring that Dooku was already tiring from fighting 2 combatants when Skywalker beat him.

You think Mace could take Skywalker and Kenobi together?

Originally posted by CountDooku22
And that Dooku could beat Sidious..

Well he led his own against Yoda.

But yeah he'd obviously lose a majority to Sidious otherwise he wouldn't be the apprentice. But that doesn't mean he's not even capable of beating him in a fencing match.

And A>B>C doesn't always work. Certainly didn't in ROTS.


Originally posted by CountDooku22
Then I would agree with you.

For a guy who calls himself CountDooku22, you don't seem to hold him in high regard.

Jedi Mom
Three or sol quotes puts Dooku = or > to Mace.

DARTH POWER
^ thumb up And 2 fights. Obsession where they are fighting to a stalemate and Clone Wars Republic Commando which has him fighting off Kenobi and Mace together before escaping.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Three or sol quotes puts Dooku = or > to Mace.

AotC Mace.

Not ROTS Mace. That's the thing.

That's why Anakin can't defeat Mace, and Dooku can't defeat Sidious.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by CountDooku22
AotC Mace.

Not ROTS Mace. That's the thing.

Actually CW Mace. And I don't see the difference between Mid-Late CW Mace and ROTS Mace.

Originally posted by CountDooku22
That's why Anakin can't defeat Mace,

Who says Anakin can't beat Mace?

You keep saying that like it's happened or something.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Actually CW Mace. And I don't see the difference between Mid-Late CW Mace and ROTS Mace.

They key to understanding the crucial element here, is understanding that Dooku couldn't defeat Sidious and Mace could.

An aspect that was painfully learned slowly over a number of years, for all star wars fans to come to terms with.

It's not a complicated concept: Mace beat Sidious; Dooku couldn't.

Dooku and Windu were on par during the war - and then at some point, Mace surpassed him, as Revenge of the Sith clearly proves, when Anakin, who is not a peer to Sidious, slayed Dooku.

And Mace, succeeded in defeating Anakin's superior.

Mathimatics/logic.


^Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Who says Anakin can't beat Mace?

You keep saying that like it's happened or something.

Tzeentch._
Mace defeated Sideous because of Vapaad's special abilities against the darkside.

While that implies that Mace has an easier time fighting dark siders than Dooku does, it also means that his fight with Sideous isn't indicative of his skill/dueling ability relative to the count.

Jedi Mom
Originally posted by CountDooku22
They key to understanding the crucial element here, is understanding that Dooku couldn't defeat Sidious and Mace could.
Yeah, in a saber fight Mace could defeat Sidious. When the force is involved? Nope.


Originally posted by CountDooku22
Dooku and Windu were on par during the war - and then at some point, Mace surpassed him, as Revenge of the Sith clearly proves, when Anakin, who is not a peer to Sidious, slayed Dooku.
How old is Mace as of RotS? In his 50's? He doesn't just gain power during RotS, it just doesn't happen. Might as well say Dooku gained power.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
AotC Mace.

Not ROTS Mace. That's the thing.

That's why Anakin can't defeat Mace, and Dooku can't defeat Sidious.

Wrong. Dark Rendezvous takes place some six months before ROTS in the waning days of the Clone Wars. Mace had no powerboost between then and ROTS. ROTS Dooku = Mace Windu

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Mace defeated Sideous because of Vapaad's special abilities against the darkside.

While that implies that Mace has an easier time fighting dark siders than Dooku does, it also means that his fight with Sideous isn't indicative of his skill/dueling ability relative to the count.

That's mere speculation.

The novel made Mace's considerable skill and experience clear, along with his Vapaad techniques.

And as long as the Count is a Dark Sider, Mace will still obviously win, making any other attempts at a point, moot.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
They key to understanding the crucial element here, is understanding that Dooku couldn't defeat Sidious and Mace could.

An aspect that was painfully learned slowly over a number of years, for all star wars fans to come to terms with.

It's not a complicated concept: Mace beat Sidious; Dooku couldn't.

Dooku and Windu were on par during the war - and then at some point, Mace surpassed him, as Revenge of the Sith clearly proves, when Anakin, who is not a peer to Sidious, slayed Dooku.

And Mace, succeeded in defeating Anakin's superior.

Mathimatics/logic.




You are missing critical points here.
1. Sidious vs. Dooku is not a 100/100 battle in Sidious' favor. He cannot curbstomp Mace like you are implying.

2. Anakin is a peer to Sidious in raw sabers. In fact Anakin is a peer to just about everyone by the time his power peaks in ROTS.

3. Star Wars battles are not so black and white as you paint them to be. Mace vs. Sidious had all the cards in Mace's favor. You put that battle in the Grand Convocation Chamber and Windu goes down hard.

4. The "something" that happened to boost Mace's power was on Harruun Kal; the events of Shatterpoint. Dark Rendezvous takes place after that.

You need to stop operating under the delusion that because Windu lost to Skywalker he isn't top tier. Skywalker is top tier, he's the finest Djem So user Dooku has ever seen, one of the finest blademasters in the Jedi Order.

Mace Windu even says in the ROTS novel that he is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, that's saying something with
Master most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known Yoda is sitting right next to him as he says this in the Council Chambers.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
That's mere speculation.

The novel made Mace's considerable skill and experience clear, along with his Vapaad techniques.

And as long as the Count is a Dark Sider, Mace will still obviously win, making any other attempts at a point, moot.

The novel also makes it clear that Sidious 'gives out' right as Mace is about to eat his own lightsaber. Don't you find it odd that Sidious springs right back to life moments after being 'too weak to continue.'

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Yeah, in a saber fight Mace could defeat Sidious. When the force is involved? Nope.

At a certain point in the duel, Sidious grew fearful of Mace, and knew the duel was going downhill.

If he thought he could turn the tide with an offensive Force technique, he would have used one to survive.

He did not and tried instead to in vain, guard against Mace's strikes, and lost.



Originally posted by Jedi Mom

How old is Mace as of RotS? In his 50's? He doesn't just gain power during RotS, it just doesn't happen. Might as well say Dooku gained power.

I can see you're confused.

Mace would have been on par with Dooku during the war, and then at some point, surpassed him.

The part where Anakin mutilates Dooku in Revenge of the Sith debunks your quickly erected and not-thought-out idea of Dooku magically having as much power as Mace.

Dooku was aware that he couldn't defeat Sidious, but Mace was able, making him more skilled and faster, as the novel indicates.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Wrong. Dark Rendezvous takes place some six months before ROTS in the waning days of the Clone Wars. Mace had no powerboost between then and ROTS. ROTS Dooku = Mace Windu

He obviously did surpass him if he could defeat Sidious and Dooku could not.

ROTS Dooku most certainly does not = ROTS Mace.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
He obviously did surpass him if he could defeat Sidious and Dooku could not.

ROTS Dooku most certainly does not = ROTS Mace.

Prove it. Or did you miss the fact that because Anakin defeated Darth Tyranus, Mace Windu says he may be the most powerful Jedi in the order. Please tell me the quote you have that proves this. Because Dooku losing to Anakin is no proof, and Mace defeating Sidious in a saber duel also isn't proof.

It's BS A>B>C logic.

Jedi Mom

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You are missing critical points here.

You don't have any points.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

1. Sidious vs. Dooku is not a 100/100 battle in Sidious' favor. He cannot curbstomp Mace like you are implying.

I'm not implying either of them can curbstomp Mace.






Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

2. Anakin is a peer to Sidious in raw sabers. In fact Anakin is a peer to just about everyone by the time his power peaks in ROTS.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin before he was injured could potentially become twice as powerful as Sidious. As of RotS though, Sidious would kick Ani's ass.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I doubt he would kick his ass in a pure Saber duel. But obviously his force powers would likely prove too much for Skywalker.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
No, he would kick his ass in a saber duel as of RotS...
Originally posted by Nephthys You think Anakin could do what Sidious did? You think Anakin is faster than Mace Windu?

Anakin beat Dooku through sheer strength. That obviously won't work on Sidious. Besides which, Windu > Dooku.






Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

3. Star Wars battles are not so black and white as you paint them to be. Mace vs. Sidious had all the cards in Mace's favor. You put that battle in the Grand Convocation Chamber and Windu goes down hard.

Speculation.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

4. The "something" that happened to boost Mace's power was on Harruun Kal; the events of Shatterpoint. Dark Rendezvous takes place after that.

Speculation.

Haruun Kal wasn't the only battle he was involved in.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

You need to stop operating under the delusion that because Windu lost to Skywalker he isn't top tier.

If Windu lost to Anakin, then Sidious lost to Vader. stick out tongue

But yeah, Anakin's not quite on Mace's level.





Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Mace Windu even says in the ROTS novel that he is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, that's saying something with
Master most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known Yoda is sitting right next to him as he says this in the Council Chambers.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin before he was injured could potentially become twice as powerful as Sidious. As of RotS though, Sidious would kick Ani's ass.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The novel also makes it clear that Sidious 'gives out' right as Mace is about to eat his own lightsaber. Don't you find it odd that Sidious springs right back to life moments after being 'too weak to continue.'

Don't you find it odd that Sidious yells, "Unlimited power!" afterwards.

Am I take it that you don't know what he meant by that? wink

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
You don't have any points.





I'm not implying either of them can curbstomp Mace.



















Speculation.





Speculation.

Haruun Kal wasn't the only battle he was involved in.





If Windu lost to Anakin, then Sidious lost to Vader. stick out tongue

But yeah, Anakin's not quite on Mace's level.
Will you stop saying speculation. We're in a debate forum all of this is speculation.

Also all of your posts are entirely based on interpretation.
You have nothing that suggests Mace got more powerful in the six months between Dark Rendezvous and ROTS. Nothing. And before you say 'derp but Mace beat Sidious he haz 2 have a power boost'

NOTHING suggests that.

Mace saying Anakin may be more powerful than himself after he defeated Dooku supports this. Dooku's bladeswork is on par with the cream of the crop, it is cream of the crop.

He is one of the wisest and most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25,000 year history and an even more powerful Sith Lord- ROTS novel.



Originally posted by CountDooku22
Don't you find it odd that Sidious yells, "Unlimited power!" afterwards.

Am I take it that you don't know what he meant by that? wink
No.

NewGuy01
The point is--If Mace was at 100% health, and tapping into Vaapad, he would completely obliterate Depa with complete and total ease.

In their fight, he was stabbed, bitten, bones broken, ligaments torn, and he still wasn't even going all-out in their battle, nor was he tapping into Vaapad. And on top of this, he wasn't attempting to hurt her.

I don't see why Depa would own Maul.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove it.

I already have.




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Or did you miss the fact that because Anakin defeated Darth Tyranus, Mace Windu says he may be the most powerful Jedi in the order.

Which is why he ended up on a lava bank several hours later.




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Please tell me the quote you have that proves this. Because Dooku losing to Anakin is no proof, and Mace defeating Sidious in a saber duel also isn't proof.

Actually, it is.

If Dooku lost to Anakin, then he can't defeat Sidious, just as he always knew.

And if Mace can defeat Sidious, that means he can logically defeat Dooku, who is weaker than Sidious.




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

It's BS A>B>C logic.

It's more a matter of math than anything.

And you don't seem to be very good at math.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by NewGuy01
The point is--If Mace was at 100% health, and tapping into Vaapad, he would completely obliterate Depa with complete and total ease.

In their fight, he was stabbed, bitten, bones broken, ligaments torn, and he still wasn't even going all-out in their battle, nor was he tapping into Vaapad. And on top of this, he wasn't attempting to hurt her.

I don't see why Depa would own Maul.

Originally posted by CountDooku22
Don't confuse yourself.

More so Vapaad-Depa = Mace.

But not beyond Mace.




Mace and Depa were both tapped into Vapaad - and Mace was fully intent on smashing his lightsaber hilt into Depa's skull.

he could feel himself slipping into
the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The
only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give
all of himself.

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt.





- And Depa was emaciated, had lost tons of weight, was weakened and disheveled.

And she was in pain.

She drew the curtain aside.
She sat on the edge of a long, padded chaise. She wore the tatters of
Jedi robes over the rough homespun of a jungle Korun. Her hair was as he
had seen at the outpost: ragged, greasy, hacked short as though she'd
used a knife to trim it without the benefit of a mirror. Her face was
every bit as thin as he had seen it: her cheekbones sharp, and her jaw going prominent. The burn scar was there, from one corner of her hardship-thinned mouth to the point of her jaw- But instead of a blindfold, she wore the strip of dirty rag tied around her forehead, concealing the Greater Mark of Illumination.

The Lesser Mark still glinted gold on the bridge of her nose, and though
her eyes were bloodshot and pain-haunted, her gaze was clear, and level,
and, after all, she was Depa Billaba.


And she was smaller and weaker than him:

He was taller than she, with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but she drove him backward as though he were a child.





Wrong.

Mace was armed - and he had the intention of smashing a steel rod into Depa's skull

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt.



laughing
Maul would get raped by Windu in that circumstance.

And Maul would get dominated by Depa Billaba.

Maul loses.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
I already have.

Far from it.






*days





No it isn't. It's like professional boxing. Fights aren't black and white, they aren't battle droids you twit.



Wrong again.



Obi-Wan defeated Anakin
Obi-Wan>Anakin>Dooku
Obi-Wan would curbstomp Dooku it's simple math really.







It is statistics actually which I currently have an A in thanks.

The probability that Mace will win a fight against Sidious may be say...60/40 in Sidious' favor. Just because we saw the ONE time Mace defeated Sidious doesn't mean he could do that everytime numb nuts.


Same thing with Anakin v. Dooku.

If that match-up is 60/40 in Dooku's favor we just happened to see the ONE instance where Anakin won. We see other instances towards the latter part of the Clone War where Dooku wins.

Just like boxing. When two combatants come up, the math shows that it's likely for one person to come out on top. Do they always? No. Because statistics are not absolute. That's why they are statistics.

NewGuy01
Bravo, Yoda.

CountDooku22
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Will you stop saying speculation. We're in a debate forum all of this is speculation.

Also all of your posts are entirely based on interpretation.

And the posts of Jinsoku Takai and Nephthys as well, apparently.




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

You have nothing that suggests Mace got more powerful in the six months between Dark Rendezvous and ROTS. Nothing. And before you say 'derp but Mace beat Sidious he haz 2 have a power boost'

NOTHING suggests that.


The only "derping" I'm hearing, is coming from you.

Are you to seriously tell me that you're too slow to figure out what I've been explaining to you?

Mace didn't inherit all of Sidious' power when he fought him - so unless you're saying AotC Mace can beat ROTS Sidious, then of course he grew in power and skill somewhere between Dark Rendezvous and ROTS.

If this is too hard for you to process, you can always concede to me, and go rest an ice-pack on your swollen head.




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Mace saying Anakin may be more powerful than himself after he defeated Dooku supports this.

The lava bank, doesn't.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Dooku's bladeswork is on par with the cream of the crop, it is cream of the crop.
He is one of the wisest and most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25,000 year history and an even more powerful Sith Lord- ROTS novel.

That's why he got beaten by a Knight who stalemated with a Jedi Master (Kenobi) in power and speed, even whilst tapping into the Dark Side.




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

No.

Really? Concession accepted then. smile

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by CountDooku22
And the posts of Jinsoku Takai and Nephthys as well, apparently.
They aren't official sources of canon. The authors who wrote those statements are.






DR takes place 6 months before ROTS...there's still at least a year and a half where Mace got a powerboost...you know at Haruun Kal.



Look unless you are going to pull a quote from a sourcebook or novel that states Mace's swordsmanship exceeds Dooku's you're not going to win. So unless your next post includes canon proof that Mace>Dooku, don't even bother.

Defeating Sidious in swordsmanship doesn't count because it is circumstantial, and an argument could be made that Sidious threw the fight.

Also never is it stated that Dooku fears Sidious' bladeswork, only that he fears his command of the Dark Side...you know the command that Sidious barely demonstrated against Mace.

Anakin defeating Dooku is also irrelevant because after Anakin defeats Dooku, Mace accepts the possibility that Anakin has surpassed him.

§hroud
Oh, this is interesting..

I want to jump into this.

§hroud
Now this is interesting.

Let me take a crack at this. big grin

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Far from it.

Hardly. smokin'




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

*days

Several hours equal days, Retard. roll eyes (sarcastic) laughing




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

No it isn't. It's like professional boxing. Fights aren't black and white, they aren't battle droids you twit.

You don't know anything about boxing, Water-head. big grin




Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Wrong again.

No, very much right. cool



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Obi-Wan defeated Anakin
Obi-Wan>Anakin>Dooku
Obi-Wan would curbstomp Dooku it's simple math really.

Good job; a dumbass like you, using dumbass math. Very astute. big grin

§hroud
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda


It is statistics actually which I currently have an A in thanks.

And yet you don't know that several hours equal days. laughing

I think it's less "statistics" and more "macaroni-art" - and less of an "A" and more a gold-star.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

The probability that Mace will win a fight against Sidious may be say...60/40 in Sidious' favor.
Just because we saw the ONE time Mace defeated Sidious doesn't mean he could do that everytime numb nuts.

Big talk coming from someone who doesn't have nuts between their legs.

I know being a transvestite can be frustrating for you. big grin

And I like that "statistics" you laid up there. Except it seems as if you're pulling crap out of your ass.

Go do yourself a favor - go to your room, lock the door, turn the lights off, and pull some crap out, and eat it. laughing



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Same thing with Anakin v. Dooku.

If that match-up is 60/40 in Dooku's favor we just happened to see the ONE instance where Anakin won. We see other instances towards the latter part of the Clone War where Dooku wins.

From the kiddie show? big grin



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Just like boxing. When two combatants come up, the math shows that it's likely for one person to come out on top. Do they always? No. Because statistics are not absolute. That's why they are statistics.

You don't know anything about boxing, or statistics. big grin

But what you do know, is that Dooku can't beat Sidious or Mace, and that you're thirsty for my cum.

Now go wash up. After I'm done with your mum, I'm coming to read you a story by your bedside. smokin'

§hroud
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
They aren't official sources of canon. The authors who wrote those statements are.

Hmm.. Such as the statement in DR, where Dooku is fearful of Sidious, because Sidious can destroy him.

And statements written in the ROTS Novel, and reflected in the Movie, where Mace defeats the man Dooku knew he could not defeat. cool





Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

DR takes place 6 months before ROTS...there's still at least a year and a half where Mace got a powerboost...you know at Haruun Kal.

It seems he would have gotten a number of power boosts throughout the battles. smokin'


Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Look unless you are going to pull a quote from a sourcebook or novel that states Mace's swordsmanship exceeds Dooku's you're not going to win. So unless your next post includes canon proof that Mace>Dooku, don't even bother.

Okay, Retard.

How about, Mace beat Sidious, and Dooku couldn't and fearfully knew it?

Is that good enough, or is it too hard for your water-filled head to comprehend?

If it is, go lay down and leave your door unlocked for me.

You'll feel better in the morning. big grin



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Defeating Sidious in swordsmanship doesn't count because it is circumstantial, and an argument could be made that Sidious threw the fight.

Except Canon indicates otherwise. smokin'

Unless you're arguing against Canon, is that it, 'Tard?



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Also never is it stated that Dooku fears Sidious' bladeswork, only that he fears his command of the Dark Side...you know the command that Sidious barely demonstrated against Mace.

Command of the Force is necessary to use a lightsaber skillfully. smokin'



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Anakin defeating Dooku is also irrelevant because after Anakin defeats Dooku, Mace accepts the possibility that Anakin has surpassed him.

Mace also stated Kenobi was the best Jedi for the job of slaying Grievous.

When Yoda of course, could have done so much quicker and with more ease. smokin'

Vensai

Excalibur2776
S

ROTJ Vader
Windu was on the verge of death.. He'd been stabed, slashed, and barley was able to stand. And he still could have defeated Depa with ease she even says it and goes into a coma lol. Under these circumstances Fisto could beat Mace and Mace>>>>>>Fisto.

FTR Yoda is right. Dooku Vs Anakin is like a boxing match. Dooku wins 70% of the time as shown in the clone wars and Anakin wins 30% of the time and his win happend to be one of the 30%. Also Dooku = ROTS Mace FTR.

Mizukage Yoda

Mizukage Yoda

juyomaster34
Depa wins in both scenarios....

Galan007
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Does anyone have Shatterpoint handy? I'd like a full quote of the fight as there seem to be discrepancies. Here's the entire battle, since I think that's what you are essentially asking for:

"I think," Mace said, "that if you were all you claim, I'd already be dead." He pushed himself into a forward roll that brought him up to a crouch, and looked down into the hole. Depa had done most of his work for him already. He could cut through with a single stroke.
You are not yet my kill.
"No? Whose kill am I, then?"
The answer to his question was a lightsaber's emitter jammed against his belly.
Mace had time to think blankly: Oh. Not dead. Faking.
"Depa-?"

She screamed as she triggered her blade. And kept screaming as its green fire chewed a tunnel through Mace's guts and speared out his back. His hand seized hers instinctively, locking her blade against his body so that she could not kill him by slashing it free. His own blade ignited-But he could not strike her. Even now. Not here, so close he could kiss her instead; not while her scream spiraled up into a shriek; not while he had to look into her wide staring eyes and see no hate or rage but only stark agony.

He was going to have to do this the hard way. He struck downward into the pit beside them, his blade slicing out a lopsided ellipse of armor plate that dropped into darkness below and clanged to an unseen floor. "Geptun!" he roared. "NOW!"

Flashes of battle:
- shadows fleeing the bunker as swarms of screaming electric blue blaster bolts rebounding off walls shoot them to rags-- a flood of troopers spreading into a wave through the doorway, weapons gouting lightning-colored energy, Geptun in the middle of them, head down and running, datapad cradled like a baby in his arms-- a buzzing shield of silver flame that sliced through a blaster rifle so that it exploded and took with it the trooper's hands-These images burned in Mace's brain as he fought for his life against the woman who should have been his daughter.

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt. Her fingers slipped off the blade's activation plate and it shrank back down through his body. She howled and punched his eyesocket with her free hand, but Mace got his foot wedged between them and he shoved her away with a powerful thrust. At the same instant both of them backflipped into the air, landing on their feet poised in perfect mirror images, their blades whipping in identically curving slashes almost too fast to see. Blaster bolts howled around them. The air crackled with streaks and splatters of energy. Their blades flickered and whipped and no bolt touched their flesh. Their eyes never left each other's.

Something had torn in his guts when he did the backflip. Smoke trickled upward from the hole in his belly. He could smell it, but he felt no pain. Not yet. His blade whirred through the air. Hers whirred faster. She advanced. The slashes never stopped. They would never stop. They flowed one into the next with liquid precision. This constant near-invisible weave of lethal energy is the ready-stance of Vaapad. "Depa," Mace said desperately. "I don't want to fight you. Depa, please-" She sprang at him, screaming without words; he couldn't know if she'd heard him. He couldn't know if language still had meaning for her. Then she was on him. His whole world turned to green fire.

Mace backpedaled, parrying frantically, absorbing the shock of her attacks with bent arms and a two-handed grip. He was taller than she, with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but she drove him backward as though he were a child. Green flame struck through his guard, and only a frantic jerk of his head turned what would have been a brain-burning thrust into a line of char along his cheekbone. Still he did not strike back. "I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain." Her reply was a scream louder and more savage and an onslaught to match. She broke through his guard again and scorched his wrist. Another stroke burned a slice through his pants leg just above the knee. Power roared around her, a rising storm of darkness. Mace got it now: as each Akk Guard died, his share of pelekotan backflowed through the bonds Vaster had forged among them. She was getting stronger. And with each stroke of her blade, he could feel himself slipping into the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give all of himself. To sink into pelekotaris dream. He felt it: he had reached his own shatterpoint. And he was breaking.

Through the trace of Force connection he had with Nick, Mace felt the young Korun collapse. Something broke inside his head, and all his own wounds crashed upon him. Every cut and bruise, every cracked bone and sprained joint, the man-bite on his shoulder and the hole through his guts: all of them blossomed into silent screams. His lightsaber went heavy, and his arms went slow. She burned a stripe across his chest, and he staggered. His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it. It was waiting for him in the dark. He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-And turned away. He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides. Depa moved in for the kill. Mace backed away. She leaped for him, slashing, and he slipped aside. She pressed her attack and he retreated, over bodies and through blaster-riddled wreckage of console banks, until he came hard up against a console that still had power: indicator lights flashed like droid eyes in the gloom. The blade of green fire whirled up, poised, and struck. He let himself collapse. He fell to the floor at her feet, and instead of cleaving his skull, her blade slashed the console behind him in half. Cables spat blue sparks across the burned gap.

Mace lay on the floor. He didn't think he could get up. Depa stared down at him, her face lit jungle-green by the glow of her blade, and a single needle of light seemed to pierce the dark madness in her eyes. "Oh, Mace..." Her voice was a moan of astonished pain. Her blade vanished, and her arms fell limp and helpless to her sides. "Mace, I'm sorry-I'm so sorry..."

---

Once more: Mace immensely held back the entire time. He never wanted to fight Depa at all-- much less injure her-- much less kill her. He thought about utilizing Vaapad, but he knew that to utilize the form to it's potential meant possibly killing Depa, and the writer solidified multiple times that Mace had no intention of harming "the woman who should have been his daughter."

The aforementioned facts are 100% incontrovertible. Unlike others around here, I don't spew BS. smile

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by Galan007
Here's the entire battle, since I think that's what you are essentially asking for:

"I think," Mace said, "that if you were all you claim, I'd already be dead." He pushed himself into a forward roll that brought him up to a crouch, and looked down into the hole. Depa had done most of his work for him already. He could cut through with a single stroke.
You are not yet my kill.
"No? Whose kill am I, then?"
The answer to his question was a lightsaber's emitter jammed against his belly.
Mace had time to think blankly: Oh. Not dead. Faking.
"Depa-?"

She screamed as she triggered her blade. And kept screaming as its green fire chewed a tunnel through Mace's guts and speared out his back. His hand seized hers instinctively, locking her blade against his body so that she could not kill him by slashing it free. His own blade ignited-But he could not strike her. Even now. Not here, so close he could kiss her instead; not while her scream spiraled up into a shriek; not while he had to look into her wide staring eyes and see no hate or rage but only stark agony.

He was going to have to do this the hard way. He struck downward into the pit beside them, his blade slicing out a lopsided ellipse of armor plate that dropped into darkness below and clanged to an unseen floor. "Geptun!" he roared. "NOW!"

Flashes of battle:
- shadows fleeing the bunker as swarms of screaming electric blue blaster bolts rebounding off walls shoot them to rags-- a flood of troopers spreading into a wave through the doorway, weapons gouting lightning-colored energy, Geptun in the middle of them, head down and running, datapad cradled like a baby in his arms-- a buzzing shield of silver flame that sliced through a blaster rifle so that it exploded and took with it the trooper's hands-These images burned in Mace's brain as he fought for his life against the woman who should have been his daughter.

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt. Her fingers slipped off the blade's activation plate and it shrank back down through his body. She howled and punched his eyesocket with her free hand, but Mace got his foot wedged between them and he shoved her away with a powerful thrust. At the same instant both of them backflipped into the air, landing on their feet poised in perfect mirror images, their blades whipping in identically curving slashes almost too fast to see. Blaster bolts howled around them. The air crackled with streaks and splatters of energy. Their blades flickered and whipped and no bolt touched their flesh. Their eyes never left each other's.

Something had torn in his guts when he did the backflip. Smoke trickled upward from the hole in his belly. He could smell it, but he felt no pain. Not yet. His blade whirred through the air. Hers whirred faster. She advanced. The slashes never stopped. They would never stop. They flowed one into the next with liquid precision. This constant near-invisible weave of lethal energy is the ready-stance of Vaapad. "Depa," Mace said desperately. "I don't want to fight you. Depa, please-" She sprang at him, screaming without words; he couldn't know if she'd heard him. He couldn't know if language still had meaning for her. Then she was on him. His whole world turned to green fire.

Mace backpedaled, parrying frantically, absorbing the shock of her attacks with bent arms and a two-handed grip. He was taller than she, with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but she drove him backward as though he were a child. Green flame struck through his guard, and only a frantic jerk of his head turned what would have been a brain-burning thrust into a line of char along his cheekbone. Still he did not strike back. "I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain." Her reply was a scream louder and more savage and an onslaught to match. She broke through his guard again and scorched his wrist. Another stroke burned a slice through his pants leg just above the knee. Power roared around her, a rising storm of darkness. Mace got it now: as each Akk Guard died, his share of pelekotan backflowed through the bonds Vaster had forged among them. She was getting stronger. And with each stroke of her blade, he could feel himself slipping into the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give all of himself. To sink into pelekotaris dream. He felt it: he had reached his own shatterpoint. And he was breaking.

Through the trace of Force connection he had with Nick, Mace felt the young Korun collapse. Something broke inside his head, and all his own wounds crashed upon him. Every cut and bruise, every cracked bone and sprained joint, the man-bite on his shoulder and the hole through his guts: all of them blossomed into silent screams. His lightsaber went heavy, and his arms went slow. She burned a stripe across his chest, and he staggered. His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it. It was waiting for him in the dark. He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-And turned away. He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides. Depa moved in for the kill. Mace backed away. She leaped for him, slashing, and he slipped aside. She pressed her attack and he retreated, over bodies and through blaster-riddled wreckage of console banks, until he came hard up against a console that still had power: indicator lights flashed like droid eyes in the gloom. The blade of green fire whirled up, poised, and struck. He let himself collapse. He fell to the floor at her feet, and instead of cleaving his skull, her blade slashed the console behind him in half. Cables spat blue sparks across the burned gap.

Mace lay on the floor. He didn't think he could get up. Depa stared down at him, her face lit jungle-green by the glow of her blade, and a single needle of light seemed to pierce the dark madness in her eyes. "Oh, Mace..." Her voice was a moan of astonished pain. Her blade vanished, and her arms fell limp and helpless to her sides. "Mace, I'm sorry-I'm so sorry..."

---

Once more: Mace immensely held back the entire time. He never wanted to fight Depa at all-- much less injure her-- much less kill her. He thought about utilizing Vaapad, but he knew that to utilize the form to it's potential meant possibly killing Depa, and the writer solidified multiple times that Mace had no intention of harming "the woman who should have been his daughter."

The aforementioned facts are 100% incontrovertible. Unlike others around here, I don't spew BS. smile


....that's the fight everyone is getting wet for Depa about? http://i.imgur.com/hbNJ6C0.png

Mace has several opportunities to kill her even early in the duel. The **** are people talking about, she's not even on par with AOTC Mace, let alone ROTS Mace or Dooku.

Galan007
IKR?

ROTJ Vader
Can we all agree that Maul wins?.

Galan007
He absolutely wins.

§hroud
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader

FTR Yoda is right. Dooku Vs Anakin is like a boxing match. Dooku wins 70% of the time as shown in the clone wars and Anakin wins 30% of the time and his win happend to be one of the 30%. Also Dooku = ROTS Mace FTR.

No, Dumbass.

It's called Skill-Progression, Anakin got more skilled as time went along, which is why in the kiddie show, Dooku and Ani's fights are back and forth.

And in ROTS, when Anakin had reached a plateau of greater lightsaber skill than Dooku - he's able to beat him.

That ****ing idiot doesn't know anything about "statistics"; he's talking out of his pink virgin ass.

§hroud
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Saying several hours later implies that it occurred in a period of time less than a day.

"Several" merely means more than one, Dumbass.

It doesn't specify on an exact amount.

So several hours could comprise of days.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

We use inferential statistics to predict the outcomes based on the data we already have. That's what people use to determine boxing matches, this is akin to that, but it is much less of a science and much further based on discussion of source material in conjunction with analysis of feats and performances.

In other words, we use Feats.

You could just say that you ****ing little Retard.

You're too stupid to even understand that in the kiddie show (TCW), Ani and Dooku's fights are back and forth, and then in ROTS later, he defeats Dooku - not because he was randomly able to win - it was because of Skill Progression - and that he had reached a new plateau in lightsaber swordsmanship that enabled him to defeat Dooku.

He had simply grown more skilled.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

From the T-Canon source material that supersede all but the original movies.

Still a kiddie show. big grin



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Boxing? Not much outside the use of statistics in determining probably outcomes for the purpose of betting.

You mean "probability" not probably, Dummy.

And you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

You're full of shit, and your mouth better not be full of that fecal matter when you give me my blow job.



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Gross. You should try masturbating instead of trying to turn me into a pedofile.

I understand; you're a kid and you don't want to be dominated, because you believe when you grow up, you'll develop the same tendencies.

In that case, I'll wait till you ripen with age - and stick with your mother. cool


But masturbation's no fun.

It's much funner to do things to another person in the flesh, and out. smokin'



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

So let me get this straight...you came on my face then ****ed my mother. Aren't you cool.

Your Mother seemed to think so.

laughing

§hroud
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
....that's the fight everyone is getting wet for Depa about?

Mace has several opportunities to kill her even early in the duel. The **** are people talking about, she's not even on par with AOTC Mace, let alone ROTS Mace or Dooku.

If he had had opportunities to anything - he could have done this -

...Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and
slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain towards the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.

If he had the speed to be capable of severing her weapon in two ^ just like he did to little old Darth Sidious - he would have done it to her.

He couldn't do shit. She was too fast for him - from the very get-go when she stabbed him before his brain even registered it happening - so the same mind-boggling speed she displayed when slashing him in the gut, again, before the Force could even tell his brain what had happened.

Even being smaller, lighter, physically-emaciated and weak - she overpowered him like he was a child and broke his guard several times - when defense would be passive action for Windu - and he wasn't even capable of that.

She was too strong, too fast, too everything.
Mace Windu - Shatterpoint

Her Vapaad overwhelmed Mace's abilities to simply defend himself - and he needed to go all out just to defeat her.

So, she is quite very much approaching, or on par with AotC Mace Windu, as is ridiculously obvious.

She is more powerful and faster than both versions of Maul - and she would kill them both.

§hroud
Originally posted by juyomaster34
Depa wins in both scenarios....

thumb up

Hey, a person with ****ing brains here. How 'bout that.

§hroud
Originally posted by Galan007
Here's the entire battle, since I think that's what you are essentially asking for:

And at the spot you began the excerpt at, Mace only gives that internal monologue, incorrectly thinking she's dead.

Here's an excerpt for indication of Depa's own ailing physical condition:

She drew the curtain aside.
She sat on the edge of a long, padded chaise. She wore the tatters of
Jedi robes over the rough homespun of a jungle Korun. Her hair was as he
had seen at the outpost: ragged, greasy, hacked short as though she'd
used a knife to trim it without the benefit of a mirror. Her face was
every bit as thin as he had seen it: her cheekbones sharp, and her jaw going prominent. The burn scar was there, from one corner of her hardship-thinned mouth to the point of her jaw- But instead of a blindfold, she wore the strip of dirty rag tied around her forehead, concealing the Greater Mark of Illumination.

The Lesser Mark still glinted gold on the bridge of her nose, and though
her eyes were bloodshot and pain-haunted, her gaze was clear, and level,
and, after all, she was Depa Billaba.



Originally posted by Galan007

Once more: Mace immensely held back the entire time. He never wanted to fight Depa at all-- much less injure her-- much less kill her.

Irrelevant.

As it turned out, Mace did not posses the actual physical capability to simply block her attacks - and it does not take wanting to hurt the other person, to be able to simply accomplish this.

The writer clearly outlines she was too fast; too powerful for him.

He wasn't even fast enough to simply cut her lightsaber in two, like he did with the Dark Lord of the Sith.

She was too fast to defend against - even when he was tapping Vapaad- in her weakened physical state, and despite being incredibly small and light, she broke Mace's guard and overpowered him.


Originally posted by Galan007

He thought about utilizing Vaapad, but he knew that to utilize the form to it's potential meant possibly killing Depa,

He was already utilizing Vapaad - and what he feared was losing himself in the darkness, as Depa and Bulq did - not killing her.

He knew it would take all of Vapaad's power just to defend against her attacks, which he could not do, since he couldn't even end the fight peacefully by cutting her lightsaber in two, which he did to Sidous, but couldn't do to her - even though it wouldn't kill her, and would simply take a quick cut from him - because she was just too fast for him.


Originally posted by Galan007

and the writer solidified multiple times that Mace had no intention of harming "the woman who should have been his daughter."

The writer stated he didn't seek to harm her - and yet at one point early on, smashed his lightsaber hilt into her skull.

And yet she was powerful enough where this didn't do anything to her - and she became too fast for him to even touch as the fight progressed - even though all he had to do was simply defend against her attacks.

- And cut her lightsaber in half.

He could do none of those things, which would not hurt her, and end the fight - because he was not as fast as her, and because she was too powerful - which the writer clearly solidifies.




I highlighted the important points you missed:


He comes across her, and assumes she's dead, hence his comment.

He kept moving.
The spot he needed was just ahead. Mace finally tore his attention a
way
from the dead clones, and froze.
Someone had been carving the floor there already. Blackened hunks of the
command bunker's armor plating lay strewn around human-sized pit already
nearly a meter deep. Beside them, a slu form in tattered brown robes lay crumpled on the floor.
Her lightsaber was still in her hand.
For one giddy instant, his heart sang: she had anticipated him. She hadn't fallen to the dark-it had been an act, all an act. She had been cutting through the floor to help him-But it was only one instant. He knew better.
Of course she had anticipated him: she knew all there was to know about his style. She'd known exactly what his target had to be, and she hadn't been cutting into the chamber below in order to help activate the transceiver.
She'd been going there to destroy it.
Looked like the proton grenade blast had caught her just in time. She didn't seem to be breathing. In the blinding swirl of dark power that filled the bunker, he could not feel if she still lived.
Youhave gone very quiet, doshalo. Do you think silence can save you? Do you think that because you cannot feel me, the reverse is also true?
Too much fatigue; too much pain. He had no room left in his heart for
more.
He would grieve later. Now, looking
at her corpse, he felt only a vague,
melancholy relief that he hadn't had to kill her himself.
Do you think there is anything about you I don't know?
"I think," Mace said, "that if you were all you claim, I'd already be dead."
He pushed himself into a forward roll that brought him up to a crouch, and looked down into the hole. She'd done most of his work for him already. He could cut through with a single stroke.
You are not yet my kill.
"No? Whose kill am I, then?"
The answer to his question was a lightsaber's emitter jammed against his belly.
Mace had time to think blankly: Oh. Not dead. Faking.
"Depa-?"


Mace is too slow to be able to block her attack here, even after having realized she wasn't dead moments before.
She's too fast for him here - and if he were more skilled than her; significantly so, he could have simply blocked the strike.
She was too fast for him.


She screamed as she triggered her blade. And kept screaming as its green fire chewed a tunnel through Mace's guts and speared out his back.
His hand seized hers instinctively, locking her blade against his body so that she could not kill him by slashing it free. His own blade ignited-But he could not strike her. Even now. Not here, so close he could kiss her instead; not while her scream spiraled up into a shriek; not while he had to look into her wide staring eyes and see no hate or rage but only stark agony.
He was going to have to do this the hard way.
He struck downward into the pit beside them, his blade slicing out a lopsided ellipse of armor plate that dropped into darkness below and clanged to an unseen floor.
"Geptun!" he roared. "NOW!"
Flashes of battle:
-shadows fleeing the bunker as swarms of screaming electric blue blaster
bolts rebounding off walls shoot them to rags--
a flood of troopers
spreading into a wave through the doorway, weapons gouting lightning
-colored energy, Geptun in the middle of them, head down and running,
datapad cradled like a baby in his arms--a buzzing shield of silver flame that sliced through a blaster rifle so that it exploded and took with it the trooper's hands-
These images burned in Mace's brain as he fought for his life against the woman who should have been his daughter.


Now Mace has to fight her or die - and being able to simply block attacks does not require one to want or need to hurt the other person - but it's irrelevant because he's not capable of simply blocking her attacks, anyway.

He brought his blade back up from the pit and turned his wrist on the forehand so that his recovery stroke took her in the temple with his lightsaber's butt. Her fingers slipped off the blade's activation plate and it shrank back down through his body. She howled and punched his eyesocket with her free hand, but Mace got his foot wedged between them and he shoved her away with a powerful thrust.

At the same instant both of them backflipped into the air, landing on their feet poised in perfect mirror images, their blades whipping in identically curving slashes almost too fast to see.



They're as fast as each other -equals in speed.
-And if he were truly faster at this point, he could have cut her lightsaber in half, like he was able to do later to Darth Sidious - and end this fight peacefully, without her getting hurt - he's not fast enough.

Blaster bolts howled around them. The air crackled with streaks and splatters of energy. Their blades flickered and whipped and no bolt touched their flesh.
Their eyes never left each other's.


Now she's faster here - able to slice his gut - and she's so fast, he can't even simply block the strike.

Something had torn in his guts when he did the backflip. Smoke trickled upward from the hole in his belly. He could smell it, but he felt no pain. Not yet. His blade whirred through the air.
Hers whirred faster. She advanced.


The slashes never stopped. They would never stop. They flowed one into
the next with liquid precision.
This constant near-invisible weave of lethal energy is the ready-stance of Vaapad.


Cutting your opponent's lightsaber in two won't kill them:
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain towards the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.

§hroud
Cutting your opponent's lightsaber in two won't kill them:
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain towards the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.


"Depa," Mace said desperately. "I don't want to fight you. Depa, please-"
She sprang at him, screaming without words; he couldn't know if she'd
heard him. He couldn't know if language still had meaning for her.
Then she was on him. His whole world turned to green fire.

Cutting your opponent's lightsaber in two won't kill them:
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain towards the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.




Depa by this point is simply too fast for Mace Windu, even while he's already using Vapaad.
All he has to do is simply block her attacks, and cut her lightsaber in two.
- He can't manage either - as the writer solidifies - she's too fast, too powerful.
Using more of Vapaad could cause him to lose himself within it, as Depa and Bulq had happen to them.
But it's the only way he can manage to block her attacks at all.

At this point - even small, light, and physically not much more than a skeleton - she overpowers him and breaks his gaurd - which he wouldn't need to want/try to hurt her to keep from being able to do that - he could just simply do it - if he had the capability.

Which he doesn't.



Depa's blade was everywhere.
Mace backpedaled, parrying frantically, absorbing the shock of her
attacks with bent arms and a two-handed grip. He was taller than she,
with more reach and weight, and vastly more muscle in his upper body, but
she drove him backward as though he were a child.
Green flame struck through his guard, and only a frantic jerk of his head turned what would have been a brain-burning thrust into a line of char along his cheekbone.

Cutting your opponent's lightsaber in two won't kill them:
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain towards the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.
Still he did not strike back.
"I will not kill you," he said. "Death is not the answer to your pain."
Cutting your opponent's lightsaber in two won't kill them:
Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.
One piece flipped back in through the cut open window. The other tumbled from opening fingers, bounced on the ledge, and fell through the rain towards the distant alleys below.
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.


Her reply was a scream louder and more savage and
an onslaught to match.
She broke through his guard again and scorched his wrist. Another stroke burned a slice through his pants leg just above the knee.
Power roared around her, a rising storm of darkness.
Mace got it now: as each Akk Guard died, his share of pelekotan backflowed through the bonds Vaster had forged among them.
She was getting stronger.
And with each stroke of her blade, he could feel himself slipping into the shadows. He had to. She was too strong, too fast, too everything. The only way he could survive was to give more of himself to Vaapad. To give all of himself.

To sink into pelekotaris dream.
He felt it: he had reached his own shatterpoint. And he was breaking.


And, in the end, he was just too tired. Too old.
Too wounded.

She was too strong, too fast, too everything.


Remember, Depa is tired and wounded too - she's little more than a skeleton.

Through the trace of Force connection he had with Nick, Mace felt the
young Korun collapse. Something broke inside his head, and all his own
wounds crashed upon him.
Every cut and bruise, every cracked bone and sprained joint, the man-bite
on his shoulder and the hole through his guts: all of them blossomed into silent screams.

Mace and Depa are both physically drained - but Depa is too fast for him to even just block her attacks.
She is too fast for the defensive abilities of Mace Windu - and her attributes exceed his, as has realized.


She was too strong, too fast, too everything.

His lightsaber went heavy, and his arms went slow. She burned a stripe across his chest, and he staggered.
His fighting spirit wasn't destroyed. It wasn't even far away. He could feel where it had gone. He could reach out and touch it.
It was waiting for him in the dark.
He took one last look at the darkness that called to him-Darkness within mirroring darkness without-
And turned away.


Even while Mace Windu uses Vapaad, as he has been, Depa is too fast and powerful for him.

Too fast for him to just simply defend against her attacks.

She's too fast for him to just cut her lightsaber in two and end the fight peacefully.

He doesn't want to lose himself to the darkness as Depa and Bulq did, and gives up.


She was too strong, too fast, too everything.

He let his blade vanish. His arms dropped to his sides.
Depa moved in for the kill.
Mace backed away.
She leaped for him, slashing, and he slipped aside. She pressed her
attack and he retreated, over bodies and through blaster-riddled wreckage of console banks, until he came hard up against a console that still had
power: indicator lights flashed like droid eyes in the gloom.
The blade of green fire whirled up, poised, and struck.
He let himself collapse.
He fell to the floor at her feet, and instead of cleaving his skull, her blade slashed the console behind him in half. Cables spat blue sparks across the burned gap.
This was the console that controlled the spaceport's signal-jamming equipment.


She was too strong, too fast, too everything.



Originally posted by Galan007

The aforementioned facts are 100% incontrovertible. Unlike others around here, I don't spew BS. smile

Yeah, you just have trouble with reading comprehension. smokin'

The fact is:

1. Mace and Depa both were physically drained and both were tapping Vapaad.
2. All Mace had to do, was simply block her attacks - and she was too fast for him to simply do that, gutting and slashing him several times.
3. All Mace had to do, was simply flick his blade out, and cut her lightsaber in half, like he did to Darth Sidious, and he would end the duel peacefully, without hurting her.
He was not fast enough to be capable of this - she was faster than him, Period.
4. Mace knew he had to tap into the very core of Vapaad itself to just keep up with her speed and power:
She was too strong, too fast, too everything.
And he knew doing so would cause himself to be lost within it - as Depa and Bulq had had happen to them.
5. Depa Billaba, even while physically-emaciated and fighting Mace Windu who used Vapaad - managed to overpower and overwhelm Mace's defensive capabilities.

He was not able to able to block her attacks (which would be a passive action - not offensive.

He was not able to simply cut her lightsaber in two, like he did to the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith in galactic history.

Her attributes had matched his in Vapaad, and he knew this.

Thusly, as everything has shown and proven, she was barely on par with him.

She was too strong, too fast, too everything.


You'd be an Idiot, to not be aware of this.

And to think that Maul could have even a chance.

At this point, Depa is greater in speed and power, than TPM Mace, who is more powerful than TPM Maul and likely slightly more powerful than the TCW Maul.

She is more powerful than this.

Maul gets killed by Depa Billaba.

He doesn't even have Vapaad; so he has no chance.

Time to wake up.

DARTH POWER
Holy Sock Spamming!

Cobalt237

Jedi Mom
The fight was obviously emotional, like Anakin-Kenobi.

§hroud
Originally posted by Cobalt237
thumb up

mace windu cuts sidious lightsaber in two?

depa win here.

Yes, Mace was actually able to cut Sidious' lightsaber into two pieces with one quick flick.

Mace didn't want to hurt Depa, and wanted her to stop - and simply cutting her lightsaber in two, would have ended it peacefully.

But as you've seen from the proof I've displayed and highlighted - Mace just wasn't quick enough or powerful enough to do that one simple little thing.

So Depa indeed wins here.

Both versions of Maul are killed, without too much difficulty. cool

Vensai

Jedi Mom
Has Depa got any other feats outside her fight with Mace?

§hroud

ROTJ Vader

Vensai
What's to suggest Maul doesn't just TK Depa? Maul has TKed a ship before.

Jedi Mom
lol@rotj vader

Vensai
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
lol@rotj vader

Eh, calm down. People might report you.

Jedi Mom
I didn't do nothing.

Vensai
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
I didn't do nothing.

I'm talking to ROTJVader.

Jedi Mom
You quoted me.

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by Galan007
He absolutely wins.

You sir are my hero.

§hroud
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
LMAO your a 15 year old internet troll with no life. If you said half that shit to me in real life Id beat the living shit out of you.

You're the one who sounds like the fiery 15-year old to me.

You'd be gagging a lot and red-raced, if we met in real life.

I would know the address of the one who is going to be sucking my dick.. smokin'



Originally posted by ROTJ Vader

And in the show Dooku usually beats Anakin. Its like a boxing match as said above.

That's because it's a children's show, Little *****. big grin

Anakin became more skilled as time progressed, and defeated Dooku in ROTS because he had reached a plateau in skill, Dumbass.

Now pull your head out of your pink virgin ass, clean your tongue off, and prepare to give me head with it.

Vensai
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
You quoted me.

Sorry. My mistake. I was reading fast.

Jedi Mom
np

§hroud
Originally posted by Vensai
Eh, calm down. People might report you.

I think this fiery little virgin is cute. smokin'

Hopefully he'll have that same spunk when I get to find out where he is.

Vensai

§hroud
Originally posted by Vensai
Enough with the creepy offtopic stalking. Do you think Maul could TK Depa?

She'd very likely cut him down before he got the chance.

Regardless, Mace didn't see himself being able to overpower Depa with TK, so Maul wouldn't be able to, either.

ROTJ Vader

pencilcrayon
How does his lightsaber cut Electrum in that fight?

§hroud
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Lol says the pussy throwing around insults on the Internet. If you said half the shit you've said on here to me IRL I'd beat the living shit out of you. You ****ing evil troll stalker lmao your a retarded peace of shit you **** face cuntlicker.
I know, that's what you said last time. laughing

Although I asked you for your address, and evidently, I didn't get it.

Where precisely, do you live?


The only thing you're going to be beating off, is my dick. smokin'



Originally posted by ROTJ Vader

Dumbass Windu was already Dookus equal in the movie you ****face loser. You'd know this if you actually watched the show. Dooku rivals if not surpasses Windu. prove otherwise or shut the **** up you cockface.
Mace Windu is Dooku's superior, Little *****. stick out tongue

Dooku knew he couldn't beat him on his best day - and Mace beat Sidious into the ground and had him helpless.

And being mentally-Retarded I'm not surprised you hold that kid's show in such high regard.
Most of the target audience is comprised of prepubescent people whose testicles haven't dropped - so it's perfect for you.

After I knock your teeth out, your bloody gums are going to make great lube for my dick.. smokin'

Since you have such a big mouth, this is going to be the perfect job for you. laughing

§hroud
Looks like I got a date tonight. cool

Cobalt237
everyone getting laid but me bag

§hroud
Don't worry, you'll find someone eventually. I always do. stick out tongue

Lighter332

§hroud
Originally posted by Lighter332
dude

he's obviously scared of you - isn't that enough?

stop being creepy

I just want him to physically suck my dick. big grin

Although I think it's hilarious that ROTJ Vader is a chicken shit wimp.

DARTH POWER

Zampanó
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Jeez you are f***ing creepy
My favorite was the part where he first calls the guy a mentally handicapped prepubescent kid whose balls haven't dropped, and then talks about how much fun a (fetishized) bj would be. So not only is he taking advantage of a handicapped person, he's a pedophile with coercive body-modification fantasies.

Even for the internet, that's more than a little sick. (Reported and blocked, let's hope that Genesis/Sorgo shows up and demonstrates true trolling, because Padawan Kenobi is just not very entertaining.)


@The other guy:
The person who you're talking to is not well liked, respected, or even tolerated here. We don't exactly have moderators but to the best of our ability, this guy is not part of the community. I hope you won't judge us by our most recent (and unusually vile) troll. Welcome to the board.


Edit: I have no frikkin clue who anybody in this thread is. Hope you're having a good day, Darth Power.

Jedi Mom
I think Shroud is just confusing KMC with sextapes of his mother.

ROTJ Vader

ROTJ Vader
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
I think Shroud is just confusing KMC with sextapes of his mother.

or sex tapes of his brother.

DARTH POWER

Jedi Mom
Maybe a threesome.

Jedi Mom
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I am thanks pal. And I'm glad more people are posting here now actually.

But yes Rockwood's Sock accounts are annoying. And he never learns. He comes back more insulting each time.
I thought you weren't allowed to have socks on KMC?

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
I thought you weren't allowed to have socks on KMC?

We're not. But I guess people just use different names and email ads to create different accounts. Rockwood however is pretty easy to spot as soon as he starts talking.

Jedi Mom
Cockwood sounds better.

Ferrous
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
LMAO your a ****ing stalker you ****ing fat **** stalker. You wanna fight IRL? ****ace I'd beat the living shut out of you lol you ****ing liberal rapist. That's why you suck cock you fat **** retard. nah the only retard here is you simply because you can't get the simple fact Windu and Dooku are complete equals. only a retard or someone with a low IQ would say so. if you said half the shit you said to me here I'd beat the living shit out of you youn****ing mental troll. wanna flicking go? Come to a anchorage you **** face **** rapist retard.

I think your time on the computeris up. better go back to the ****ing jail cell with that black inmate BWAHAHAHA.

Flicking? laughing

I need a precise address, if you would be so kind. smokin'

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Cockwood sounds better.

Excalibur2776
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
I think Shroud is just confusing KMC with sextapes of his mother.
Lol, good one! laughing big grin Happy Dance

juyomaster34
Depa wins this duel, both scenarios(why)?
TPM Maul was overconfident that's what got him cut...in half.
Against one saber Depa or two saber Depa?

either way Maul loses... his head...or stabbed ...or cut in half....again.

TCW Maul,out of action for10yrs.
Force Powers Really? Depa is a Jedi Counsular,Hello Force Powers,Vaapad,armed or unarmed..
Pick your poison!!! One saber Vaapad or two saber Vaapad?

And Fisto??? Really???
Fisto wouldn't last 60sec.....lol!!!!
Ok 5min. no maybe 2or 3min. tops.
Really, Depa takes this with little or no difficulty....

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.