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Battle between the Jedi council members.

Setting: AOTC Kamino platform
State: Bloodlusted
Restrictions: None
Bonus: Kit gets two sabers

Who takes it?

Shaak Ti.

Fisto takes it imo.

If we use their respective battles against Grievous as a gauge, then Fisto should stomp.

Originally posted by Galan007
If we use their respective battles against Grievous as a gauge, then Fisto should stomp.

Shaak Ti fought cartoon Grievous (while tired/beat up from previous battle!), Fisto CGI Grievous.

If we use their other feats, then Shaak Ti wins.


Heck, didn't Dooku in the Grievous novel say he was no match for a Cin Dralliq or Shaak Ti?

Originally posted by Q99
Shaak Ti fought cartoon Grievous (while tired/beat up from previous battle!), Fisto CGI Grievous.

If we use their other feats, then Shaak Ti wins.


Heck, didn't Dooku in the Grievous novel say he was no match for a Cin Dralliq or Shaak Ti?

Yup, in fact the most recent release it explicitly states Shaak Ti.

Originally posted by Q99
Shaak Ti fought cartoon Grievous (while tired/beat up from previous battle!), Fisto CGI Grievous. Shaak Ti AND Ki Adi Mundi fought Grievous, you mean? And he stomped them quite easily(although Mundi put up an okay fight.)

Fisto, on the other hand, tooled GG pretty casually by himself.

Originally posted by Galan007
Shaak Ti AND Ki Adi Mundi fought Grievous, you mean? And he stomped them quite easily(although Mundi put up an okay fight.)

Fisto, on the other hand, tooled GG pretty casually by himself.

Again, Cartoon Grievous. Grievous never showed the levels he did during the cartoon again.

And hadn't the force he fought already engaged in heavy combat and wasn't too fresh, and was kinda caught by surprise by him?

That is true; Fisto was relatively fresh when he fought him; those other Jedi were at the tail end of a massive battle.

I consider Shaak Ti to be #5 after Kenobi, Skywalker, Mace, and Yoda honestly. She's got a lot of hype and not terrible feats.

Lol. What hype? What feats? Only one quote from LoE which only is Dooku's opinion and then another saying her Makashi was graceful or something?

Originally posted by Q99
Again, Cartoon Grievous. Grievous never showed the levels he did during the cartoon again.

And hadn't the force he fought already engaged in heavy combat and wasn't too fresh, and was kinda caught by surprise by him? As The Ultimate Visual Guide confirms, the Clone Wars Cartoon is 100% canon. Thus, all of GG's feats in said cartoon are 100% canon by proxy.

That said, absolutely nothing from this scene indicates that Shaak Ti was less powerful than normal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXQx_QLY8XM
...Yet Grievous owned her effortlessly.

There's also this battle scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64-3talVkUA
Any time Shaak Ti (and co.) were confronted by Grievous, he easily outmatched them in sabers.

The above are sharp contrasts to GG's battle with Fisto, in which Fisto got the better of Grievous on a few occasions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-t9GlT9qmk

That's all I'm saying.

^True. Grievous' power has been retconned though, he isn't anything special anymore, hardly on par with random Council Members. In the OCW and LoE he was better than he is now.

It's not a retcon unless an authority on the matter officially states: "CG Grievous is weaker than cartoon Grievous"(or some-such.) Until then, we can only assume that his skills/abilities remained consistent throughout the Clone Wars, whether he displayed them to the same extent or not. Any other assumptions are purely opinion-based.

He stomped 5 Jedi in the OCW, was able to rival Mace/Dooku, now Jedi such as Koth and Fisto are able to beat him.

Also, Filoni said in an interview he isn't the Grievous we were used to know.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
He stomped 5 Jedi in the OCW, was able to rival Mace/Dooku, now Jedi such as Koth and Fisto are able to beat him. Grievous never 'rivaled' Dooku. As far as his brief scuffle with Mace during LoE is concerned: all GG really did was dupe a version of Mace's Vaapad, and begin using it against him-- an ability Mace was not aware of, nor was he ready for. That's why he opted to tool GG with the force instead. Regardless, you make it sound like Grievous was on the same level as Mace and Dooku before the CG stuff came about. He clearly wasn't-- not even his feats in the cartoon were indicative of such. That's why Dooku made this comment during their training session in the cartoon:

"If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise and intimidation on your side... For if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory."

At any rate, both Koth and Fisto used the force at some point during their battles to gain an advantage over Grievous. Despite this, it's still very clear that even CG Grievous was skillful enough to contend with them in a pure saber match(heck, GG appeared to have the advantage over Koth until he used the force.) Also keep in mind that the opponents CG Grievous has battled are, in general, of much higher level than the no-names he battled in the cartoon--- this may be where the perceived 'power difference' stems from..? /shrug

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Also, Filoni said in an interview he isn't the Grievous we were used to know. Do you have the actual quote on hand? Because if that's all he said, then it is an extremely ambiguous statement.

Originally posted by Galan007
Grievous never 'rivaled' Dooku. As far as his brief scuffle with Mace during LoE is concerned: all GG really did was dupe a version of Mace's Vaapad, and begin using it against him-- an ability Mace was not aware of, nor was he ready for. That's why he opted to tool GG with the force instead. Regardless, you make it sound like Grievous was on the same level as Mace and Dooku before the CG stuff came about. He clearly wasn't-- not even his feats in the cartoon were indicative of such. That's why Dooku made this comment during their training session in the cartoon:

"If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise and intimidation on your side... For if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory."

At any rate, both Koth and Fisto used the force at some point during their battles to gain an advantage over Grievous. Despite this, it's still very clear that even CG Grievous was skillful enough to contend with them in a pure saber match(heck, GG appeared to have the advantage over Koth until he used the force.) Also keep in mind that the opponents CG Grievous has battled are, in general, of much higher level than the no-names he battled in the cartoon--- this may be where the perceived 'power difference' stems from..? /shrug


Do you have the actual quote on hand? Because if that's all he said, then it is an extremely ambiguous statement.

1. Fair enough. You make good points.

2. ''It's not the sensibility that people got, you know, unfortunately or not in the previous Micro series where they're all hiding in a ship worried about Grievous is gonna come and stomp on them.''

Ashoka performed better in TCW against Grievous than Mundi and Shaak Ti did. That doesn't make her more powerful than both of them. Eth Koth also battered him with a wounded arm no less.

I do believe Grievous is still a threat in Pure Sabers to almost any Jedi. But he's not on the level anymore where he can take on and defeat 2 Council Members in an all out.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
1. Fair enough. You make good points.

2. ''It's not the sensibility that people got, you know, unfortunately or not in the previous Micro series where they're all hiding in a ship worried about Grievous is gonna come and stomp on them.''

Tbh I'm not even sure what that singular statement implies.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ashoka performed better in TCW against Grievous than Mundi and Shaak Ti did. That doesn't make her more powerful than both of them. It does imply that she is a better duelist, though. She also used the force against him at one point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whXq4UYRDRc

Conversely, Shaak Ti and Mundi faltered when they tried going blow-for-blow with Grievous. Had they used the force against him (like many other Jedi have) they likely could have prevailed. GG has no counter to the force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Eth Koth also battered him with a wounded arm no less."Battered"? Lol. Koth didn't gain any sort of advantage until he used the force.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sbkpigyo4o

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But he's not on the level anymore where he can take on and defeat 2 Council Members in an all out. Depends entirely which Council members. Personally, I don't see a legitimate reason why CG Grievous wouldn't be able to best Shaak-Ti/Mundi in a pure saber match. What have they done to say otherwise?

Originally posted by Galan007
It does imply that she is a better duelist, though. She also used the force against him at one point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whXq4UYRDRc

Conversely, Shaak Ti and Mundi faltered when they tried going blow-for-blow with Grievous. Had they used the force against him (like many other Jedi have) they likely could have prevailed. GG has no counter to the force.

Well I am talking about all-outs.

Originally posted by Galan007
"Battered"? Lol. Koth didn't gain any sort of advantage until he used the force.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sbkpigyo4o

He held his own in Sabers with a wounded arm, and completely floored him with the Force. There was nothing stopping Mundi and Shaak Ti using force attacks. But IIRC that series showed Grievous as able to dodge/tank most TK attacks.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well I am talking about all-outs. In an all-out battle, a force-user is almost always going to have the advantage over Grievous. Like I said before: GG has absolutely no way counter force attacks, aside from raw speed. Again, that is almost certainly why Dooku made this statement:
"If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise and intimidation on your side... For if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory."

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He held his own in Sabers with a wounded arm, and completely floored him with the Force. Cool. Koth's not the first Jedi to gain an advantage over Grievous via force attacks. Heck, Grievous had Kenobi himself beaten, until Kenobi TK'd him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn7o_Cz9rVs

I feel like CG Grievous' skills are tremendously underrated around here. Why on earth people believe he was depowered in the CG show is completely beyond me..? Almost all of his best saber/battle feats (against credible Jedi, mind you) occurred in the CG-- not the cartoon.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
There was nothing stopping Mundi and Shaak Ti using force attacks. But IIRC that series showed Grievous as able to dodge/tank most TK attacks. Only one TK attack was used during that battle, and Grievous managed to dodge it. However, we know GG wasn't able to dodge every force attack in the cartoon, otherwise Mace wouldn't have been able to crush his chest.

I think it's because he seemed for formidible in the cartoon maybe.

Originally posted by Galan007


Cool. Koth's not the first Jedi to gain an advantage over Grievous via force attacks. Heck, Grievous had Kenobi himself beaten, until Kenobi TK'd him:

Yeah except Koth wasn't losing the Saber fight. He held his own in Sabers despite having a wounded arm.


Originally posted by Galan007
I feel like CG Grievous' skills are tremendously underrated around here. Why on earth people believe he was depowered in the CG show is completely beyond me..? Almost all of his best saber/battle feats (against credible Jedi, mind you) occurred in the CG-- not the cartoon.

No nothing in the CG compares to defeating 5 Jedi together. I think the CG showed that pretty much any high level Master would take him in an all out.

But I do agree he's always been a threat in Pure Sabers and still is.

Originally posted by Galan007
Only one TK attack was used during that battle, and Grievous managed to dodge it. However, we know GG wasn't able to dodge every force attack in the cartoon, otherwise Mace wouldn't have been able to crush his chest.

Like you said TK was used in the CWMini but to no avail. It only took one Tk shot for Kenobi and Koth to get the better of him.

IIRC Mace crushed him when he was standing on the ship platform trying to escape with Palpatine.

Look I still think Grievous is a threat to almost all Jedi in Sabers. But if you honestly think GG's performance did not decrease in the CG show and that we can compare feats then I guess you believe Ashoka is > than Mundi + Shaak Ti together?

Talking of comparing feats between the CW Mini to the CG show the difference wasn't just down to Grievous's prowess. Mace would also be >>> Dooku in the Force too because he destroyed hundereds of droids with TK alone (something he seemingly couldn't do in AOTC) whilst Dooku got caught by 30 pirates???

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think it's because he seemed for formidible in the cartoon maybe. Imo, he seemed more formidable in the cartoon, because the Jedi he faced were, for the most part, no-name fodder. Of course he's going to shred through them with ease. In the CG, however, he's fought several notable Jedi, and has proven himself a match for nearly all of them in sabers. Because they are upper-echelon Jedi, however, Grievous naturally cannot best them as easily as he bested the cartoon fodder-- but this certainly doesn't mean he's less skillful/powerful by default.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah except Koth wasn't losing the Saber fight. He held his own in Sabers despite having a wounded arm.Which means what, exactly? Instead of using that feat to demonstrate how skillful Koth must have been to contend with GG while injured, you use it to downplay Grievous' skills? Horrid logic.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No nothing in the CG compares to defeating 5 Jedi together. . What had any of those Jedi done before they battled Grievous that makes you think CG Grievous wouldn't have been able to defeat them? The simple fact that they were dubbed "Jedi", and were armed with light sabers doesn't cut it for me.

Remember what Dooku taught him: "If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise and intimidation on your side... For if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory."

When GG bested those Jedi, he had ALL of those elements on his side-- and he was primarily facing featless fodder. Impressive showing for the good General, but certainly not beyond what his CG self would be capable of under those same circumstances, imho.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But I do agree he's always been a threat in Pure Sabers and still is.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Like you said TK was used in the CWMini but to no avail. It only took one Tk shot for Kenobi and Koth to get the better of him.And it only took one TK shot in the cartoon for Mace to nearly kill GG.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Look I still think Grievous is a threat to almost all Jedi in Sabers. But if you honestly think GG's performance did not decrease in the CG show and that we can compare feats then I guess you believe Ashoka is > than Mundi + Shaak Ti together?His skill level hasn't canonically decreased all. That is only your opinion. If GG's skills had decreased, then he wouldn't still be able to contend with top-tier Jedi. It just seems like his skills decreased to you, because the caliber of his opponents has increased substantially. The Jedi finally wised-up and stopped sending fodder Knights for Grievous to slay.

Answer this: What did Shaak-Ti or Mundi do before their battle with Grievous that leads you to believe Ashoka wouldn't be able to best them in sabers?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Talking of comparing feats between the CW Mini to the CG show the difference wasn't just down to Grievous's prowess. Mace would also be >>> Dooku in the Force too because he destroyed hundereds of droids with TK alone (something he seemingly couldn't do in AOTC) whilst Dooku got caught by 30 pirates??? There are always going to be inconsistencies between the various SW media. Grievous, however, isn't one of them.

Ohhh I totally agree on that.. I've argued with many on here that GG is just as powerful as he was during the mini. Many were trying to claim he got a recton of sorts which I totally disagree with. It could just be down to GG fighting superior people now days than he once did.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ohhh I totally agree on that.. I've argued with many on here that GG is just as powerful as he was during the mini. Many were trying to claim he got a recton of sorts which I totally disagree with. It could just be down to GG fighting superior people now days than he once did.

Yet in it, *many* characters are vastly more powerful. Mace never fights like he does in that anywhere else.

It may be canon events but it's exaggerated as heck.


And, outside of that, Shaak Ti's got an impressive record.

Originally posted by Galan007

Conversely, Shaak Ti and Mundi faltered when they tried going blow-for-blow with Grievous. Had they used the force against him (like many other Jedi have) they likely could have prevailed. GG has no counter to the force.

One of the Jedi did try and force-push him during that fight and missed because he got out of the way.

Originally posted by Galan007


What had any of those Jedi done before they battled Grievous that makes you think CG Grievous wouldn't have been able to defeat them? The simple fact that they were dubbed "Jedi", and were armed with light sabers doesn't cut it for me.

Remember what Dooku taught him: "If you are to succeed in combat against the best of the Jedi, you must have fear, surprise and intimidation on your side... For if any one element is lacking, it would be best for you to retreat. You must break them before you engage them. Only then will you ensure victory."

When GG bested those Jedi, he had ALL of those elements on his side-- and he was primarily facing featless fodder. Impressive showing for the good General, but certainly not beyond what his CG self would be capable of under those same circumstances, imho.



His skill level hasn't canonically decreased all. That is only your opinion. If GG's skills had decreased, then he wouldn't still be able to contend with top-tier Jedi. It just seems like his skills decreased to you, because the caliber of his opponents has increased substantially. The Jedi finally wised-up and stopped sending fodder Knights for Grievous to slay.



Remember what Dooku says to him in "Lair of Grievous"? At the end when he thinks he Grievous bested Fisto, he says something like "Vicotry over the young Knight and clones was expected, but to defeat a Jedi Master??"

Dooku at least seemed to think it would be a new level for Grievous to defeat a Jedi Master in that episode. So I doubt his CW Mini feats were just because Mundi and Shaak Ti are almost non-factors compared to Koth and Ashoka.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ohhh I totally agree on that.. I've argued with many on here that GG is just as powerful as he was during the mini. Many were trying to claim he got a recton of sorts which I totally disagree with. It could just be down to GG fighting superior people now days than he once did.

You've always argued that the new series has heavily downgraded Grievous, and wouldn't accept Fisto, Koth and Ventress beating him without all of us acknowledging that.

They aren't fearful of him because he isn't as big a threat as he was back in the Micro Series where htey ''were hiding in a ship worried about Grievous is gonna come and stomp on them.''

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Remember what Dooku says to him in "Lair of Grievous"? At the end when he thinks he Grievous bested Fisto, he says something like "Vicotry over the young Knight and clones was expected, but to defeat a Jedi Master??"

Dooku at least seemed to think it would be a new level for Grievous to defeat a Jedi Master in that episode. So I doubt his CW Mini feats were just because Mundi and Shaak Ti are almost non-factors compared to Koth and Ashoka.



You've always argued that the new series has heavily downgraded Grievous, and wouldn't accept Fisto, Koth and Ventress beating him without all of us acknowledging that.

Which is true... But there was no recton of the character was the point. He hasn't been shown as the same monster he was in the mini.. but I never said his skills were downgraded.. I complained that they were being true to G.G. in some cases. This happens though.. happens with Supeman, Thor etc etc.. they have low showings that are unfortunate but that doesn't mean they have been downgraded. Even then, as pointed out by Galan... some of that is due to the calibur of foe he's faced in the new series.

That makes no sense though. Unless you can prove Mundi/Ti were not trained to control their fear. In the episode only Sha'a Gi, if I remember correctly, was ''worried about getting stomped on''. The other Jedi were ready for the battle yet got destroyed by Grievous' insane moves which he has only done in the OCW.

It does make sense, as that is exactly what Filoni said. You're just adding your opinion to his statement.

All the Jedi except Sha'a Gi controlled their fear just fine, so no.

Per the quote you posted, Filoni's intention was clear: any Jedi who faced Grievous in the CG would not let their fear get the better of them(like we saw happen to a few Jedi during the cartoon), because Jedi are trained to control their fear, and never let it get the best of them. Why? Because "fear is the path to the dark side." - Yoda.

Like it or not, that is what Filoni said. srsly

I'm saying that ''real well-trained Jedi Knights'' such as Ki-Adi Mundi and Shaak Ti didn't show any fear whatsoever, yet got destroyed.

And? Grievous didn't best Shaak Ti/Mundi because they were scared of them-- he won because a.) they only tried using the force against him a single time, and b.) he is that good.

In no way/shape/form did Filoni's statement allude to CG Grievous being weaker than his cartoon counterpart. All it said is that CG Jedi wouldn't be fearful of Grievous. Simple.

Fisto didn't use the force against Grievous a single time yet bested him. You think Fisto can take on five Jedi at the same time?

While Fisto fared much better than Shaak Ti, he didn't 'best' Grievous. He lopped off one of his hands and stalemated him until the Magnaguards entered the fray:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-t9GlT9qmk

And as you can see: Fisto did effectively use the force.

a) He did best him. Slicing one of his hands and then Grievous calling Magnaguards for help?

b) Yeah my bad. Didn't help him though. He could've killed Grievous right there but did not.

c) Even if Fisto=CW Grievous and CW Grievous=OCW Grievous, Fisto would be able to floor 5 Jedi. You think he could, especially since two of those were Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi Mundi?

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
a) He did best him. Slicing one of his hands and then Grievous calling Magnaguards for help?

b) Yeah my bad. Didn't help him though. He could've killed Grievous right there but did not.

c) Even if Fisto=CW Grievous and CW Grievous=OCW Grievous, Fisto would be able to floor 5 Jedi. You think he could, especially since two of those were Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi Mundi? a.) Slicing off one of Grievous' hands =/= 'besting' him-- he's still got 3 other hands to work with. That's why, even after Fisto de-handed Grievous, he still couldn't gain any sort of clear advantage in sabers-- even with Jar'Kai.

b.) He still used the force to gain ground, though. Shaak Ti/Mundi did not. They tried to go strike for strike with Grievous-- an idiotic move given that, even during RotS, Grievous' strike-speed was sufficient to overwhelm the defenses of 'Soresu-God' Kenobi.

c.) Do I think Fisto could defeat 3 fodder Jedi, and Shaak Ti/Mundi(who at the time were fodder-ish) based on his showing against Grievous? Absolutely.

It seemed to me he got that hand by surprise tbh. He wasn't able to chop off another hand after that.

Lol. Fisto beating Shaak Ti+Mundi+3 random Jedi?

Not happening.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Lol. Fisto beating Shaak Ti+Mundi+3 random Jedi?

Not happening.
He could if he had fear, surprise, and intimidation on his side, as well as two sabers. The fact that they are all tired helps as well. And fodder jedi are nonfactors.

I'm not convinced. And the Jedi can replenish themselves with the force, no?

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
I'm not convinced. And the Jedi can replenish themselves with the force, no?

Yes but there's a limit how many times they can do that. That's the impression I got from the ROTS novel anyway.

The limit is their force reserves. And is there any proof they replenished themselves? I'm talking about the five Jedi Grievous fought.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
The limit is their force reserves. And is there any proof they replenished themselves? I'm talking about the five Jedi Grievous fought.

A bit strange asking for proof that they replenished themselves since that's hardly ever been noted in SW Canon.

Either way Mundi specifically notes it in the next episode that they were all exhausted. So replenishing themselves is neither here or there.

The next time Grievous beats Shaak Ti(at the Battle of Coruscant), Grievous himself notes that she's again exhausted.

Fair enough. I'm not convinced Fisto would be able to do what Grievous did though, exhausted or not.

Mundi himself was able to drive Ventress away.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Fair enough. I'm not convinced Fisto would be able to do what Grievous did though, exhausted or not.

Mundi himself was able to drive Ventress away.



Canon or not the micro series has been called exaggerated numerous times. So feat comparisons between it and other media is not advisable Imo.

Yeah. For now on when discussing Grievous I'm only gonna use TCW/RotS+quotes supporting what TCW/RotS is trying to indicate (that he is at Council Member level).

Help out on this one though;

And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.''
-Labyrinth of Evil

"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters."

He called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air - - a Makashi flourish.

"Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Shaak Ti or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"

He flicked his blade quickly, ridding two of the guards of their staffs, then placing the glowing tip a millimeter from Grievous's death-helmeted visage.

"Finesse. Artfulness. Economy. Otherwise, my friend, I fear that you will end up beyond the repair of even the Geonosians. Do you take my meaning?"

Direct contradiction from the same source. I'm not arguing for the sake of it, just confused by Grievous' inconcistency.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Either way Mundi specifically notes it in the next episode that they were all exhausted. So replenishing themselves is neither here or there.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The next time Grievous beats Shaak Ti(at the Battle of Coruscant), Grievous himself notes that she's again exhausted. Shaak Ti had a few run-ins with Grievous during the siege of Courscant, when she was fresh. Any time she (and the 2 other fodder Jedi) were confronted by Grievous, they were continuously forced back-- Shaak Ti herself appeared terrified of the good general. Heck, at one point during that battle, a single Magnaguard was giving Shaak Ti hell-- and we know Grievous is >>> any Magnaguard.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom


Help out on this one though;

And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.''
-Labyrinth of Evil

"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters."

He called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air - - a Makashi flourish.

"Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Shaak Ti or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"

He flicked his blade quickly, ridding two of the guards of their staffs, then placing the glowing tip a millimeter from Grievous's death-helmeted visage.

"Finesse. Artfulness. Economy. Otherwise, my friend, I fear that you will end up beyond the repair of even the Geonosians. Do you take my meaning?"

Direct contradiction from the same source. I'm not arguing for the sake of it, just confused by Grievous' inconcistency.

It's not really a contradiction. It's just saying that Grievous is still a threat to most Jedi, but there are a few who he should completely avoid. Although that usually comes down to their TK.

In pure Sabers however I'd say the number of Jedi who could take him would only be a handful at best.

Originally posted by Galan007


Shaak Ti herself appeared terrified of the good general.

This could be the the reason why she doesn't do too well against him. The first fight we know she was exhausted. After that fight she may have just been scared of him.

Like you said, Dooku told Grievous to have fear and surprise on his side when fighting the best Jedi. He certainly had fear on his side against Shaak Ti.


Originally posted by Galan007
Heck, at one point during that battle, a single Magnaguard was giving Shaak Ti hell-- and we know Grievous is >>> any Magnaguard.

IIRC they were running all over the place in that fight trying to protect the Chancellor.

The fact that she took on like what 20 Magnaguards later also proves that Shaak Ti >>> any single magnaguard.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This could be the the reason why she doesn't do too well against him. The first fight we know she was exhausted. After that fight she may have just been scared of him.

Like you said, Dooku told Grievous to have fear and surprise on his side when fighting the best Jedi. He certainly had fear on his side against Shaak Ti.

And fear, as we know, is a path to the dark side.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
IIRC they were running all over the place in that fight trying to protect the Chancellor. Surely a Jedi can run for a few minutes without vastly decreasing their reserves.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The fact that she took on like what 20 Magnaguards later also proves that Shaak Ti >>> any single magnaguard. Clearly the single Magnaguard she faced initially was of a greater level than the cluster of Magnaguard she faced later on-- she beat the latter pretty decisively, but could only manage to stalemate the former.

Regardless, Grievous >>> any Magnaguard.

You make good points in this case Galan007.

I do see OCW Grievous=CW Grievous now actually.

w00t

Hopefully I can stand with this point of view now. It is one thing I have always been confused about.

Just remember, the Jedi team Grievous beat in the cartoon were:
a.) Primarily no-name fodder.
and
b.) Per Mundi, were "exhausted"(thanks to DP for reminding me of that.)

In fact, cartoon Grievous never really beat any Jedi of note, without fairly extreme situational circumstances aiding him.

CG Grievous, on the other hand, has consistently shown that he is skillful enough to contend with nearly any noteworthy Jedi in sabers.

Still, Grievous gave a really good fight to Windu in LoE. And I still can't wrap my head around how Fisto>five exhausted Jedi, two of them Mundi/Ti.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
And I still can't wrap my head around how Fisto>five exhausted Jedi, two of them Mundi/Ti. Fodder Jedi are completely inconsequential. Mundi and Shaak Ti are also inconsequential, given that they were "exhausted" at the time. Go run 10 miles, then try to beat your best 40 yard dash time immediately afterward. Ain't gonna happen.

Even when she was fresh, Shaak Ti was hard-pressed to defeat a single Magnaguard during Grievous' siege on Courscant. That alone should tell you where she stands in comparison to the General himself.

"Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Shaak Ti or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"

Cool comment.

We still saw one Magnaguard give her hell.

Cool comment.

The quote still stands.

Feats trump statements. That said, we've seen where Shaak Ti's skills stand. One Magnaguard gave her hell. Granted, that Magnaguard was obviously of a higher level than most, but still, it was one Magnaguard.

Here's how I see it: Fisto ≈ Grievous >> one Magnaguard ≈ Shaak Ti.

Can you link me to the video where she fights this Magnaguard? Don't think I've seen it.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Can you link me to the video where she fights this Magnaguard? Don't think I've seen it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64-3talVkUA
Starts at 5:07.

Thanks.

That's why I'd rather use the quote. It specifically states she's on Grievous' level if not above. It's likely she had a harder time with the Magnaguard on the train just as Windu had a hard time with Grievous on the train. When she fought the Magnaguard on the ground she destroyed it pretty quickly.

Originally posted by Galan007
Feats trump statements. That said, we've seen where Shaak Ti's skills stand. One Magnaguard gave her hell. Granted, that Magnaguard was obviously of a higher level than most, but still, it was one Magnaguard.

Here's how I see it: Fisto ≈ Grievous >> one Magnaguard ≈ Shaak Ti.

Very astute.

The only problem with your deduction, is that this thread implies both Jedi in their peak forms - and CW Shaak Ti is not her peak form.

The Shaak Ti that gave Galen "Force Titan" Marek hell, is her peak form.

Unless that game is no longer Canon, I'm surprised no one has thought to bring it up - then again, with how little most people seem to think in this place, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.


Peak-Fisto was destroyed by Sidious in 10 seconds - even with the help of Mace Windu.

Shaak Ti by comparison, gave a much better fight to an opponent who is arguably close to ROTS Palpatine in most respects.

Indeed, if this were CW Shaak Ti versus Kit - Kit would take her down quickly.

But it's not.

This is "Zip-around like lightning - *****-smack Starkiller" Shaak Ti.


And against her, Kit himself would go down - after a very intense fight.

Shaak Ti is victorious, here.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
It's likely she had a harder time with the Magnaguard on the train just as Windu had a hard time with Grievous on the train. This wasn't implied at all.

She had a hard time with that Magnaguard, because that Mangaguard's skill-level was roughly equal to hers.

Originally posted by Galan007
Where was it implied that this is Felucia Shaak Ti?

Anyway, if that was the intent of the thread starter(you'd think he would've specified that by now), then Shaak Ti obviously wins. RotS-Era Shaak Ti looses, though.

Where was it implied that she wasn't?

By rules, if no particular variation of the character is specified, then it is assumed the character is in her Peak-incarnation.

And of course she owns Kit here.

Cool. If the thread starter doesn't declare otherwise, then I have to agree.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool. If the thread starter doesn't declare otherwise, then I have to agree.

According to his Opening Post, he didn't. So you do agree.

Originally posted by Galan007
This wasn't implied at all.

She had a hard time with that Magnaguard, because that Mangaguard's skill-level was roughly equal to hers.
Take it how you want to. I go by the quote.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Take it how you want to. I go by the quote.

It's finished, Madam. - Shaak Ti wins this.

My troll alarm just went off.

Grievous's lowballing comes from his showing against the Gungans, and because his personality is not as serious as it was in the older cartoons.

Personally, I agree that some of his best feats come from TCW, such as giving Kenobi hell all throughout the series. So I don't understand how most people can wank Kenobi and then turn around and lowball Grievous. If Grievous is that bad, then why does Kenobi, whom everyone considers top tier, consistently struggle against him?

I would not call ''getting kicked'' as struggling. Grievous in RotS wasn't a challenge for Kenobi.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Grievous in RotS wasn't a challenge for Kenobi. The novel would disagree with you.

He's been more than just kicked. And yes Kenobi handily beat Grievous after so many tries.

Originally posted by Galan007
The novel would disagree with you.
Filoni disagrees with the novel.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Filoni disagrees with the novel.


How?

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Filoni disagrees with the novel. The novel still depicts Grievous' strike-speed as sufficient to very nearly overwhelm Kenobi's Soresu(and by that point, Kenobi had been dubbed THE master of Soresu/defense.) The CG, on the other hand, consistently depicts Grievous giving Kenobi hell in sabers every time they meet.

So what exactly does Filoni disagree with?

I suppose Filoni is atleast a T-canon source, putting him higher than C-canon sources such as novels.

It's pretty obvious that pre-ROTS!Grievous was intended to be a juggernaut of epic proportions who dismantled Jedi Masters left and right. (In one associated comic, he disposes of Ventress and Durge simultaneously with contemptuous ease.)

Post-ROTS!Grievous is another animal entirely. Depending on favorable conditions, he can contend with respected fighters in a strict duel. But this is not the same animal who could take on Mace Windu as was depicted in LOE. Especially when the Force enters the equation, Grievous is fodder.

That's exactly why when he first appeared in RotS, I felt so disappointed. After watching him in the animated series of TCW, I couldn't wait to see him on the big screen.

Damn I didn't know he took on Ventress who schooled him in TCW. What's the comic called?

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Damn I didn't know he took on Ventress who schooled him in TCW. What's the comic called?

Behold.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
That's exactly why when he first appeared in RotS, I felt so disappointed. After watching him in the animated series of TCW, I couldn't wait to see him on the big screen.

Yeah, I used to have a primo seat on that particular bandwagon. Not so much now. I buy into Filoni's argument that Grievous is, ultimately, a particularly badass droid. He should challenge the Jedi under certain circumstances and favorable conditions, but the Force is simply too great an advantage for mooks to overcome in anything approaching "a fair fight."

Now, what Grievous should be and has never really been shown to be is a tactician par excellence. I want to see him demolish Republic fleets with impunity, for that is his true purpose and worth in the war.

Originally posted by Galan007
This wasn't implied at all.

She had a hard time with that Magnaguard, because that Mangaguard's skill-level was roughly equal to hers.

Come on man, you can't say that. That fight never finished. And there was too much going on at that time. She took on multiple magnaguards simultaneously later, after sufficient rest, on a more stationery platform and when that was her sole focus.

If your claiming that single magnaguard was much more formidable, then where's your proof that Grievous >>> than that single(apparently uber skilled) magnaguard?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And yes Kenobi handily beat Grievous after so many tries.

Don't lie. He's beaten him in "Grievous Intrigue" and in "Arc Troopers." Basically every time they fight for a prolonged period Grievous runs for his life.

Originally posted by Galan007
The novel would disagree with you.

The movie would disagree with the novel.

Unless the novel is considered higher canon than the movie itself, then there's no point arguing this. From what we see in the movie, Grievous gets his arse handed to him and then runs for his life, failing.

Staying on topic, Shaak Tii wins.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
(In one associated comic, he disposes of Ventress and Durge simultaneously with contemptuous ease.) a.) Grievous beat a n00b Asajj, very early in the Clone Wars-- so early, in fact, that Anakin was (obviously) still a Padawan at the time. Given that Anakin was promoted to a Knight roughly 4 weeks after the battle of Geonosis, this means Grievous must have confronted Asajj/Durge less than a month after the events of AotC. In short: back then she was a far cry from the badass she's evolved into throughout the CG.

b.) He hardly beat Asajj and Durge "easily":














Lets be honest: Grievous did absolutely nothing in the cartoon that should lead anyone with a smidgen of common sense to believe he was above his CG incarnation. His best feat in the cartoon was besting 3 fodder Jedi+Shaak Ti and Mundi-- ALL of whom were, by Mundi's own accord, "exhausted" at the time. Like I've said before: cartoon grievous may have *seemed* more powerful/skillful, but that is primarily because nearly every Jedi he faced was either no-name fodder, or fatigued at the time. In the CG he's consistently held his own against multiple Jedi of note.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Come on man, you can't say that. That fight never finished. And there was too much going on at that time. There was nothing else going on. Shaak Ti and the Hammerhead no-name Jedi were fighting Magnaguards atop the carrier. That's it. At NO point in time did Shaak Ti gain an advantage over said Magnaguard-- and she had ample time in which to do so.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
where's your proof that Grievous >>> than that single(apparently uber skilled) magnaguard? Same clip. Grievous consistently forces back Shaak Ti + 2 other fodder Jedi.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
The movie would disagree with the novel.

Unless the novel is considered higher canon than the movie itself, then there's no point arguing this. From what we see in the movie, Grievous gets his arse handed to him and then runs for his life, failing. The novel coincides quite well with what we saw in the film, actually. Kenobi tries going strike-for-strike with Grievous initially, and swiftly realizes that his speed is too overwhelming to defend against-- so he goes on the offensive and begins lopping off GG's hands one-by-one, before force-pushing him away.

The novel just put some much-needed narrative behind what we see happen on screen.

If the novel coincides with the movie, then Grievous was beaten handily by Kenobi, because that's the way it happened in the movie.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
If the novel coincides with the movie, then Grievous was beaten handily by Kenobi, because that's the way it happened in the movie. I'm not contesting that in the slightest.

All I'm saying is that, per the RotS novelization, GG's speed was still sufficient to nearly overwhelm Kenobi's Soresu, which forced Obi to switch tactics and launch an offensive counterattack(which is why/how he won.) Whether he lost or not, the fact that GG was capable of overwhelming Kenobi's Soresu is nothing short of remarkable, given how highly it was praised in the same novel.

Originally posted by Galan007
Given that Anakin was promoted to a Knight roughly 4 weeks after the battle of Geonosis, Really? I thought it took longer then that.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
The movie would disagree with the novel.

Unless the novel is considered higher canon than the movie itself, then there's no point arguing this. From what we see in the movie, Grievous gets his arse handed to him and then runs for his life, failing.

Staying on topic, Shaak Tii wins.
I think Form two > Form one would give her an advantage anyway.

Originally posted by Galan007


b.) He hardly beat Asajj and Durge "easily":
















Hey thanks, I've never seen that before

Seems to me that Ventress won the Saber fight anyway even then.

She was taken down by Grievous's physical attacks having no idea who/what she was up against.

Originally posted by Galan007

There was nothing else going on. Shaak Ti and the Hammerhead no-name Jedi were fighting Magnaguards atop the carrier. That's it. At NO point in time did Shaak Ti gain an advantage over said Magnaguard-- and she had ample time in which to do so.

She was given some time, in a very tense situation with the focus really being on defending the Chancellor. But still I can pretty much guarantee she would have beat it.

I mean unless you think that 1 magnaguard could have engaged 20 other magnaguards like Shaak Ti did later. I think that scene made it perfectly clear that a rested Shaak Ti, with nothing else to focus on, is clearly >>> than any 1 Magnaguard.



Originally posted by Galan007
Same clip. Grievous consistently forces back Shaak Ti + 2 other fodder Jedi.



Grievous puts most Jedi on the defense due to his cyborg strength. That doesn't mean he'll win.

Besides like you said Fodder Jedi hardly mean much. Plus they were all probably tiring a bit by then.

Originally posted by Vensai
I think Form two > Form one would give her an advantage anyway.

Fisto is actually using Jar Kai here. So I don't think that is Form I.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER


Fisto is actually using Jar Kai here. So I don't think that is Form I.

I think Jar Kai can be used with most forms.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hey thanks, I've never seen that before

Seems to me that Ventress won the Saber fight anyway even then.

She was taken down by Grievous's physical attacks having no idea who/what she was up against.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
She was given some time, in a very tense situation with the focus really being on defending the Chancellor. But still I can pretty much guarantee she would have beat it. I never said she couldn't have beaten that Magnaguard. I said it "gave her hell"-- which it did.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Grievous puts most Jedi on the defense due to his cyborg strength. That doesn't mean he'll win. Strength alone isn't why Grievous can hang with most Jedi.

Strength+speed+skill+cunning are the actual reasonS.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Lol. What hype? What feats? Only one quote from LoE which only is Dooku's opinion and then another saying her Makashi was graceful or something?

Three words.

The Force Unleashed

Originally posted by Galan007
Fodder Jedi are completely inconsequential. Mundi and Shaak Ti are also inconsequential, given that they were "exhausted" at the time. Go run 10 miles, then try to beat your best 40 yard dash time immediately afterward. Ain't gonna happen.

Even when she was fresh, Shaak Ti was hard-pressed to defeat a single Magnaguard during Grievous' siege on Courscant. That alone should tell you where she stands in comparison to the General himself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRSPpRQyCM

5:11 onward.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRSPpRQyCM

5:11 onward. That doesn't change the fact that a single Magnaguard stalemated her from 1:39-2:03.

Furthermore, not all Magnaguards are of equal skill:Originally posted by Galan007
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15626619_1.jpg

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15626636_3.jpg

Magnaguards learn and evolve from every battle. Thus, Magnaguards with years of battle experience would obviously be much more skilled than Magnaguards that are hot off the press and have very little battle experience.

Varying 'levels' of Magnaguard is, imo, why we saw such a huge difference here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRSPpRQyCM
At 1:39 a single Magnaguard is skillful enough to give Shaak Ti a good fight. At 5:16 Shaak Ti is able to match a dozen(or so) Magnaguards for an extended period of time--- it's hard to attribute that to anything but differences in the skill-level of the Magnaguards, imo. After all, by the time Shaak Ti fought the cluster of them, she would have almost certainly been more fatigued(by a substantial margin, I'd guess) then when she battled the first one. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
That doesn't change the fact that a single Magnaguard stalemated her from 1:39-2:03.

Furthermore, not all Magnaguards are of equal skill:

It just means she wasn't fighting at the best of her ability against that 1.

Just like Kenobi's been kicked and thrown by Grievous multiple times, but his performance there clearly wasn't on the same level he gave against Maul and Opress who combined could not land a single hit on him.

Or just like Skywalker was getting kicked half way across the room onto his rear by Dooku one moment, then the next battered through his defenses like he was nothing.

End of the day no matter the gap in skill between magnaguards, there's never been anything to suggest that 1 is good enough to engage another 10-20.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It just means she wasn't fighting at the best of her ability against that 1. Why in the heck should I believe that Shaak Ti wasn't fighting to the best of her ability against that one Magnaguard, when we know some Magnaguards are more skillful than others? As the info I posted above describes: Magnaguards learn/evolve from every battle. Therefore, droids with "countless battles" under their belts are going to possess much more skill than brand new droids that have never been involved in a battle.

Relatively speaking, it's like comparing a Youngling to a Jedi Master-- and I certainly wouldn't put a dozen(or so) Younglings over a seasoned Jedi Master. /shrug

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
End of the day no matter the gap in skill between magnaguards, there's never been anything to suggest that 1 is good enough to engage another 10-20.
Apparently you missed the video, because it showed just that. Maybe the fact that Shaak Ti was able to evade the group of droids in the tunnel is what helped her contend better against them? Dunno.

Going by visual evidence only is fallacy logic.

Visual evidence(ie. portrayed feats) is the best type evidence.

Hmm. Is evidence such as portrayed in books called visual evidence? If so what I meant to say is going by evidence on-screen only is fallacy logic.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Hmm. Is evidence such as portrayed in books called visual evidence? If so what I meant to say is going by evidence on-screen only is fallacy logic. Feats described solely by narration are absolutely still battle feats.

Originally posted by Galan007
That doesn't change the fact that a single Magnaguard stalemated her from 1:39-2:03.

Furthermore, not all Magnaguards are of equal skill:

Or Shaak Ti wasn't going all out/ was adjusting to the Magnaguards unique fighting styles. Shaak Ti fought a Magnaguard for about as long as Kenobi and Skywalker did in ROTS. It's a low end feat. Either way that doesn't count as a bad feat for Shaak Ti moreso a good feat for that magnaguard.

Also if we go with that didn't Kit Fisto struggle with Magnaguards in LOE? excellent

Dunno. Dooku thought of Grievous as ''useles'' against his Magnaguards in a sparring session before he disarms two of them.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Dunno. Dooku thought of Grievous as ''useles'' against his Magnaguards in a sparring session before he disarms two of them.
When was this?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Either way that doesn't count as a bad feat for Shaak Ti moreso a good feat for that magnaguard. I agree. That's why I've been bringing up the fact that different Magnaguards possess different levels of skill.

Originally posted by Vensai
When was this?
LoE

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree. That's why I've been bringing up the fact that different Magnaguards possess different levels of skill.
That'll be hard to judge. Surely there is some average level of skill most have.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Either way that doesn't count as a bad feat for Shaak Ti moreso a good feat for that magnaguard.

That's his point. That that 1 Magnaguard = Shaak Ti. But Grievous >> than that 1 Magnaguard and hence >> Shaak Ti.

Originally posted by Galan007
Why in the heck should I believe that Shaak Ti wasn't fighting to the best of her ability against that one Magnaguard, when we know some Magnaguards are more skillful than others? As the info I posted above describes: Magnaguards learn/evolve from every battle. Therefore, droids with "countless battles" under their belts are going to possess much more skill than brand new droids that have never been involved in a battle.



Yes but I've seen nothing to make me believe that the skill level is so huge 1 Magnaguard can engage 10-20 other magnaguards. Even most Jedi can't do that.

And that's why you should probably give Shaak Ti the benefit of the doubt and assume that her taking a while to defeat 1 Magnaguard probably wasn't a peak performance for her.

Just like Kenobi getting overpowered by Opress the first 2-3 times they fought obviously wasn't a peak performance for him.

Or Skywalker getting knocked senseless by Dooku in ROTS (while fighting alongside Kenobi mind you) clearly wasn't a peak performance for him as he proved a few seconds later against the same opponent.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes but I've seen nothing to make me believe that the skill level is so huge 1 Magnaguard can engage 10-20 other magnaguards. Even most Jedi can't do that. Meh, we know Magnaguards learn/evolve from every battle, after receiving training from Grievous himself. That said, if a Magnaguard has been involved in countless battles over several years(as was the case with a few of them), it is absolutely/undeniably going to be superior to brand new Magnaguards with no battle/field experience to speak of. As I said: relatively speaking, it's like comparing a Youngling to a Jedi Master-- and I certainly wouldn't put a dozen(or so) Younglings over a seasoned Jedi Master. /shrug

Originally posted by Vensai
That'll be hard to judge. Surely there is some average level of skill most have. Given that they rarely ever engage Jedi solo, it's extremely hard to find an 'average' for singular/seasoned Magnaguards. All we really have to go by are Shaak Ti, RotS Kenobi and RotS Anakin's battles against them.

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, we know Magnaguards learn/evolve from every battle, after receiving training from Grievous himself. That said, if a Magnaguard has been involved in countless battles over several years(as was the case with a few of them), it is absolutely/undeniably going to be superior to brand new Magnaguards with no battle/field experience to speak of. As I said: relatively speaking, it's like comparing a Youngling to a Jedi Master-- and I certainly wouldn't put a dozen(or so) Younglings over a seasoned Jedi Master. /shrug

Except those Magnaguards weren't brand new. Grievous grants the ones that he views as more skillful and have proved themselves cloaks. All dozen or so of the ones Shaak Ti fought had cloaks.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except those Magnaguards weren't brand new. Grievous grants the ones that he views as more skillful and have proved themselves cloaks. All dozen or so of the ones Shaak Ti fought had cloaks.
Hm, I didn't know that. It makes sense though considering Ahsoka was able to take down three uncloaked ones as a noob.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's his point. That that 1 Magnaguard = Shaak Ti. But Grievous >> than that 1 Magnaguard and hence >> Shaak Ti.

Shaak Ti was definitely well over that one Magnaguard, she killed it without a scratch.

And the fight had a break in it so they could retreat with Palpatine more.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except those Magnaguards weren't brand new. Grievous grants the ones that he views as more skillful and have proved themselves cloaks. All dozen or so of the ones Shaak Ti fought had cloaks. Not saying it isn't true, but where did you hear that? I was of the impression that nearly all Magnaguards were intended to wear cloaks in order to pay tribute to the Kaleesh warriors who were under Grievous' original command-- the RotS Visual Dictionary confirms as much. I've never heard that cloaks equated to some sort of ranking system..? Even if that is the case, though, it doesn't make all cloaked Magnaguards equal by proxy-- those with the most battle experience will always be better than those with less battle experience.

Regardless, even counting the SW animated series, I've only seen maybe 5 total Magnaguards without a cloak. I have a hard time believing just those 5 weren't worthy of one. /shrug

Originally posted by Vensai
Hm, I didn't know that. It makes sense though considering Ahsoka was able to take down three uncloaked ones as a noob. One of those Magnaguards was cloaked. The other 2 weren't. Tbh, I saw no discernible difference in their skill level. /shrug

Originally posted by Q99
Shaak Ti was definitely well over that one Magnaguard, she killed it without a scratch.

And the fight had a break in it so they could retreat with Palpatine more. The location of the battles was surely a big contributing factor as well. When she battled the single guard atop the carrier, she had very little room to move around in. When she battled multiple guards in the tunnels, she had ample room to move in.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not saying it isn't true, but where did you hear that? I was of the impression that nearly all Magnaguards were intended to wear cloaks in order to pay tribute to the Kaleesh warriors who were under Grievous' original command-- the RotS Visual Dictionary confirms as much. I've never heard that cloaks equated to some sort of ranking system..? Even if that is the case, though, it doesn't make all cloaked Magnaguards equal by proxy-- those with the most battle experience will always be better than those with less battle experience.

Nah you are right. However it does make sense that the ones without cloaks are not a part of Grievous' personal guard.