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Orbalisk Bane and Zannah vs Mace, Fisto, Kolar, and Saesee Tiin

Setting is Tython, so since it's not a Dark Side Nexus, Zannah can't use her Dark Tendrils.

Who wins?

The way I see it, Mace and Fisto would rush to confront Bane, while Kolar and Tiin confront Zannah. Mace and Fisto would prove to have trouble with Bane, not expecting their lightsabers to be deflected by the Orbalisks. His powerful charge would have them both on the defensive. Kolar and Tiin would assault Zannah with fierce lightsaber blows that she would probably narrowly be able to hold off for a limited amount of time with her own skill, however she would not be in any situation to do anything with the Force while taken aback by Kolar and Tiin's obviously superior bladework. Bane would use his devastating Force Waves to overpower his combatants and Force Lightning in attempt to catch Mace off guard--The later of which would stop it with his saber. Soon he would cut down Fisto and the battle would continue to be 1 on 1 from then forward. Realizing he was unable to defeat RoT Bane in 1 on 1 confrontation, he would probably lure the battle to Kolar and Tiin so they could gain an advantage. With the two battles meeting, Saesee and Kolar would let up on Zannah, also defending attacks from Bane. In this split second, Zannah would be able to unleash her Sorcery on Kolar, who with insufficient Force Defenses would succumb to the illusions and be struck down. The same could not be said however for Saesee Tiin, as he was a powerful Telepath. and with struggle could resist it and block Zannah's killing blows. Realizing Tiin alone was in danger against Zannah, Mace would repel Bane with a Force Push or something of the like and viciously strike at Zannah blow for blow. Though it gave Tiin enough of an advantage to continue the assault alone, Mace would quickly have to continue his battle with Bane. Zannah would probably defeat Tiin despite his allies' aid, though with difficulty. Masking her presence in the Force, she would stab the already losing Mace Windu in the back unexpectedly and Bane would barrage him with Sith Lightning.

I actually originally was going to say Team 2, but after consideration Team 1 could probably win. Though I may have to consider it more before I make my final decision. :>

Team 2.

while the orbalisk armor deflects lightsaber blows, i dont believe there is any mention of it providing special protection against force attacks.

And? Except Mace and possibly Tiin, no Force Powers of enough magnitude to harm Bane will come into play here, especially as his wild offensive will be too much of a distraction to gather up enough power to release a potent threat to Bane via the Force.

Team 2 may win, I'm having some minor doubts, but I'm sticking with my vote for now.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And? Except Mace and possibly Tiin, no Force Powers of enough magnitude to harm Bane will come into play here, especially as his wild offensive will be too much of a distraction to gather up enough power to release a potent threat to Bane via the Force.
If this is so, couldnt bane solo?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
If this is so, couldnt bane solo?

No, I'll explain why tomorrow.

Bane solos.

Oh, thought this was DoE Bane. In that case, team 1.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Bane solos.
I wouldn't go that far. Windu's Vaapad amp and Shatterpoint will be Bane's worst nightmare. But with Zannah assisting, Windu's going down. The other three are just out of their league.

Originally posted by Vensai
I wouldn't go that far. Windu's Vaapad amp and Shatterpoint will be Bane's worst nightmare. But with Zannah assisting, Windu's going down. The other three are just out of their league.
I completely agree on the notion that bane cannot solo. I re-read through some of Rot, and forgot about how Bane's face was vulnerable, making mace's shatterpoint perfect for the situation.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The way I see it, Mace and Fisto would rush to confront Bane, while Kolar and Tiin confront Zannah.

This isn't necessarily an ideal tactic. It may be better for Windu to engage Bane alone while the others deal with Zannah.



Windu has shatterpoint.



Uh, why? His sheer physical size isn't likely to intimidate Windu, and his strength in the dark side is only going to feed Mace's vaapad.



Or, the three members of the "B team" team up on Zannah and take her out. She may be able to hold off with her soresu, but there's nothing, as you've put it, to indicate that she can defeat three of the greatest swordsmen the order has ever produced simultaneously.



Um, what?

Mace Windu has not only deflected Palpatine's lightning, but also redirected back and scarred his face. If Bane tries that shit on him, he'll not only suffer grievous injuries, but, if another Jedi is teaming with Windu on the sith lord, will get decapitated in his distraction.

The same applies if he tries to take out one with telekinesis; the other Jedi will simply butcher him. Remember that Windu is an extremely fast combatant and strong in the Force, arguably rivaling Bane even before we consider vappad's superconducting loop. With it, Bane's dark side energies will add to Windu's baseline Force powers (already exceeding Dooku's), and allow him to outmatch the sith lord.



Mace Windu defeated Palpatine; he can take Bane. The sith lord's primary advantage, the orbalisks, won't be as helpful as you think against a Windu with a mastery of shatterpoint, whose users have been able to crush lightsaber resistant armor with a tap.



Sorry, but you're mistaken.

Mace Windu alone can defeat Bane.
The trio can take down Zannah.
Either of the two squads will come to the other's aid when they win.

@Master Han your bias for WIndu is showing buddy.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
@Master Han your bias for WIndu is showing buddy.

@ROTJ Vader your bias and fondness for Ad HOminems is showing buddy.

And I love how you accuse me of being a Windu fanboy, when I accuse Mace of being a dumbass in the whole debate about whether Palpatine threw the fight. It has more to do with his name being in a lot of threads, for some reason.

Mace can't beat Bane. The latter is faster (generated multiple afterimages) and more powerful (disintegrated technobeasts), and in general, due to the orbalisks, a better combatant.

Originally posted by Master Han
@ROTJ Vader your bias and fondness for Ad HOminems is showing buddy.

And I love how you accuse me of being a Windu fanboy, when I accuse Mace of being a dumbass in the whole debate about whether Palpatine threw the fight. It has more to do with his name being in a lot of threads, for some reason.

You are a Windu fanboy buddy. You say Windu>everyone but like 1-2 people buddy. Palpatine>>>>Windu accept it buddy.

In Shatterpoint it's noted that all Jedi possess the ability to detect shatterpoints and that it simply comes more naturally to Mace Windu; what it might take others minutes to do, Mace can do in an instant. Mace Windu possesses a natural talent with the ability but otherwise it would appear to be a pretty common technique, and Bane was shown using something that appeared to resemble it in his fight with Sirak. Given that soon after he first obtained the orbalisks he desperately wanted to get rid of them and literally spent months trying, why are you so certain they even possess a shatterpoint or a critical weakness at all in the first place (aside from electricity of course which was an obvious no go)?

Oooh, good point. I didn't know that.


I'm undecided on the thread. Both sides make good cases.

This is just like RotS all over again, with Bane beating Mace in the end (in my opinion).

I think Mace beats Bane after extremely difficult fight, while the trio takes down Zannah.

Orbalisk Bane>Mace

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Orbalisk Bane>Mace
Nah.

RotS Sidious > Orbalisk Bane by canon

Mace + Vaapad + Shatterpoint > RotS Sidious

ergo:

Mace > Orbalisk Bane

/thread.

no

yes...

EDIT: wait... I guess you're disagreeing because of your earlier theory on "Sids threw the fight with Mace"?
You fought well in that thread, but that theory went down the drain…

Do you seriously believe that?

uh...that Mace can beat Orbalisk Bane? Sure.

Originally posted by Stigma
Nah.

RotS Sidious > Orbalisk Bane by canon

Mace + Vaapad + Shatterpoint > RotS Sidious

ergo:

Mace > Orbalisk Bane

/thread.

It isn't really as simple as that. Even if Sidious is more powerful than Bane and is the Most Powerful Sith, that doesn't mean he's superior in all aspects. Bane has strengths that Sidious doesn't that may allow him to beat Windu. The Orbalsik armor for example gives his body 80% protection to Windu's saber, which is a huge boost to his ability in lightsaber combat. Intrepids points on the other page are accurate.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
You are a Windu fanboy buddy.

Which is why I call him a dumbass in our "did he throw the fight" fiasco?



I say that about Luke as well. I guess I'm a Skywalker fanboy. And a Yoda fanboy. And even a Palpatine, Abeloth and Zonama Sekot fanboy.

It's an observation based on the facts, Mr. Ad Hominem.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu_XLDlDWLQ

Here, we see Mace Windu defeating Palpatine.

You are the fanboy if you wish to assert without evidence that the guy on his ass at the end is somehow winning.

----------

Originally posted by noitseuq
In Shatterpoint it's noted that all Jedi possess the ability to detect shatterpoints and that it simply comes more naturally to Mace Windu; what it might take others minutes to do, Mace can do in an instant. Mace Windu possesses a natural talent with the ability but otherwise it would appear to be a pretty common technique, and Bane was shown using something that appeared to resemble it in his fight with Sirak. Given that soon after he first obtained the orbalisks he desperately wanted to get rid of them and literally spent months trying, why are you so certain they even possess a shatterpoint or a critical weakness at all in the first place (aside from electricity of course which was an obvious no go)?

Uh, I'd like to see some evidence that "all" Jedi know shatterpoint, because in most of the literature it's made clear that the technique is extremely rare. Luke Skywalker has to train Jaina in the art, who had earlier been stupefied by Caedus's use of it.

So perhaps all Jedi can sense weaknesses in a sense, but they can't do so in the same manner that Windu and other masters of the actual technique can.


---------

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't really as simple as that. Even if Sidious is more powerful than Bane and is the Most Powerful Sith, that doesn't mean he's superior in all aspects. Bane has strengths that Sidious doesn't that may allow him to beat Windu. The Orbalsik armor for example gives his body 80% protection to Windu's saber, which is a huge boost to his ability in lightsaber combat. Intrepids points on the other page are accurate.

Shatterpoint and vaapad will neutralize the armor's most obvious advantages. We should remember that Bane's head and, IIRC, his hands are still vulnerable, and in the vast majority of duels these are actually where the incapacitating hits are landed.

And, even if Bane's orbalisks are too much for Windu to handle, the trio are going to take out Zannah, at which point Bane can't hope to pull a Sidious can take them together.

I know, but that in itself makes shatterpoint kind of, heh, pointless since he's going to go for Banes head and wrists anyway so he doesn't need it. And Bane only needs to protect those parts, which he will do regardless of shatterpoint.

The trio are borderline non-factors to Bane. And Zannah can likely get one or 2 of them anyway.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The trio are borderline non-factors to Bane. And Zannah can likely get one or 2 of them anyway.

Uh...Kit Fisto > Obi Wan throughout much of the clone wars. That Palpatine can pull of a haxx and take them out doesn't necessarily mean that they are "borderline non-factors" to Bane, who, let's be honest, has never demonstrated power on the level of Darth Sidious.

Additionally, in the novelization's account of events, Palpatine's haxxed kill-streak succeeds largely because Windu hasn't sunken into vaapad yet, but once the fight has already been going on, he's less likely to be able to salvage a victory if Zannah falls.

Good fight. Can see it going either way TBH. Although, I'm leaning toward the Sith right now.

Originally posted by Stigma
Nah.

RotS Sidious > Orbalisk Bane by canon

Mace + Vaapad + Shatterpoint > RotS Sidious

ergo:

Mace > Orbalisk Bane

/thread.

Are you serious?.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Are you serious?.
Originally posted by Stigma
uh...that Mace can beat Orbalisk Bane? Sure.

He certainly can. Its a close fight either way imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He certainly can. Its a close fight either way imo.
Agreed.

Nahhhh

Nephthys is compromising bro, he knows truthfully that it's clearly a one sided beatdown by team 1.