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Luke Skywalker vs. "the most powerful of the most powerful" Ragnos, most powerful sith lord evar Exar Kun, and the penultimate brick thrower Naga Sadow.

Battle takes place in the ESB wampa cave.

Darn, I can't post links yet.

I dunno. These characters with their powerful feats and virtue of being ancient, old people might win here.

Three on one vs powerful Sith is probably a bit much, though Luke does solidly outmatch any one of 'em.

Luke. It's a far greater advantage to have one being of significant power (abeloth, for example) against 3 beings of lesser power (note, not saying ancient sith are even relatively close to abeloth in power, just an analogy). Luke could, say, TK them all, or blitz one of em with blinding speed, among the top in the whole mythos. Or he could just legitimately outduel all of them, or even subdue them with lightning. And then there's the infamous fold space lightsaber into your heart.

Luke does to them what Sidious did to Fisto, Tiin, and Kolar.

I don't think Luke could outduel all three. Though... Say, force pushing Marka and Exar out of the way to saber blitz Naga, the weakest duelist, to make it two-on-one would be possible. But he likely couldn't repeat that... I think it's more likely he kills one or two and leaves the rest wounded, they are overall of a level where one on one it'd at least be some fight.

This is how fight rolls. He saber-blitzes Naga, fold spaces his saber into ragnos's heart, and outduels/TK's exar kun.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This is how fight rolls. He saber-blitzes Naga, fold spaces his saber into ragnos's heart, and outduels/TK's exar kun.

Oh, he never does stuff like fold-space sabers into people's hearts and you know it

Luke takes this.

He saber blitzes Naga before he can react. Then force pushes Kun out of the way and takes down Ragnos. Then TKS/outduels Kun.

Originally posted by Q99
Oh, he never does stuff like fold-space sabers into people's hearts and you know it

No, but he's fold-space'd a guy off a planet because he didn't feel like fighting him.

I do think people are underestimating these three some. People less powerful than them have made him match blades/powers to for a bit.

Yeah. I don't see how Lumiya can be a threat to Luke, yet he can blitz the likes of Naga Sadow.

PIS

Or, alternatively, a wider gap is needed to blitz reliably. Not-blitzing is the norm.

Personally I'd say, depending on circumstances, 3+ tier difference is needed to blitz. Like, with Sidious's blitz, Fisto was able to block one strike. Which says he was on the edge of not-being blitzed even when Sids caught them by surprise.

And Maul and Opress were in the not-blitzable range. Badly outmatched to be sure, but not insta-blitzed.

Lumiya's closer to Luke than Sidious is to Fisto or Opress, is all that means.

I'm not sure if TUF Luke is up there yet (or is he?), but FotJ Luke definitely takes them all down.

You must be kidding me. Luke does not defeat all 3.

Originally posted by Q99
Lumiya's closer to Luke than Sidious is to Fisto or Opress, is all that means.



I wouldn't even put Lumiya at Fisto's or Opress's level.

Originally posted by ares834


I wouldn't even put Lumiya at Fisto's or Opress's level.


She did get training from Vader and then spent some decades practicing and such. And just taking lightsaber skill, where she does seem quite talented, rather than force power.

She was also being overpowered by a random Jedi Knight in Betrayal.

While having Alema Rar as backup. In a standard fight, I'd give Fisto's caliber the definite nod over Lumiya in terms of sheer skill and reputation.

She's much cleverer though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
While having Alema Rar as backup.

Nah, before that. She fights some chick who has a crush on Jacen who starts flat out overpowering her:

"Nelani tried again, this time with the bust of the Bothan. It reached a halfway point between her and Lumiya, but the older woman reached out with her own free hand and the bust stopped in midair. Now it strained forward toward her; a moment later, it crept back through the air toward Nelani. It was a piece in a game of push-of-war between the women, and neither was winning.

The strain showed in Lumiya's voice, causing it to hoarsen. "Vergere sacrificed herself so you could assume the Sith mantle she wanted for you. That's the kind of self-sacrifice no Jedi would admit is possible for the Sith, but it's the truth. Take what I have to teach you, Jacen. Take this place and the dark side power it contains. Take the knowledge that rests in its tombs on the world of Ziost. And use them against the forces that are trying to tear this galaxy apart. Restore order. Give your cousin, give the children in your family and your life the chance to grow up in a galaxy without war."

"You're still withholding the truth," Jacen said. His voice was hard now, his manner uncompromising, unconfused. "You killed the security chief on Toryaz Station, didn't you?"

"Yes," she said. "Of course. I caught up to him too late to prevent the attack on you-it was already under way. But I could force from him an admission of who he was working for, and avenge the dead."

"Who was he working for?"

"Thrackan Sal-Solo. Who else?"

"And all those situations on Lorrd-you didn't 'dream' about them, did you? You had direct access to the perpetrators."

Lumiya cast a sideways glance at the bust hovering between her and Nelani. It was beginning to creep back toward her, and the strain of keeping it at bay was showing on her face. "Yes. My visions were waking visions. I could have interfered directly with their plans-probably with exactly the same results you experienced."

"Why didn't you?"

"I used them as a test for you." Lumiya closed her eyes and strained, but the bust still moved toward her. "Sith, like Jedi, have to determine the fates of others. Unlike Jedi, they know that sometimes this means sacrificing one so that twenty may live. I had to find out whether you understood that. And you do."

"How about your confederate?" Jacen asked. "The man Master Skywalker keeps glimpsing but can't quite see? The man he says doesn't exist?"

Lumiya managed a laugh that was half-exhausted gasp. "Jacen, that's you, visions of you. The Sith you will become. Luke can't make out his features because he's not willing to accept what he sees through the Force-your face where the next Lord of the Sith stands." Her last words were little more than a gasp, and her control slipped at that point. The bust of the Bothan hurtled toward her. She cracked her whip at it, a foreshortened stroke that might have missed in any case, but the bust's trajectory changed, sending the statuary beneath the tendrils. Instead of striking Lumiya's head or chest, the bust cracked into her right hand, sending the whip spinning from her grip; its tendrils twisted across the floor like living things, scarring it with their passage."

To be fair, she did create Force phantoms before that that exhausted her.

True, but she had quite a long conversation with Jacen after that in which to recover.

To be fair x2, Lumiya has defeated ROTJ-Luke before, could create Force Phantoms in the first place, and Zekk and Jaina were positive that they were no match for her. Not to mention she has held her own against Luke more than once during NJO. She's good.

Originally posted by Nephthys
She was also being overpowered by a random Jedi Knight in Betrayal.

But high lightsaber skill is not dependent on high force skill.

Raskta Tsu was able to take on Bane in sabers on good terms without having force power to speak of.


Being weaker in the force doesn't mean you can't be very high tier in sabers.

Freahers Freahserr! ::

I think NJO authors have distorted the combat prowess of a Jedi for people to think Luke or most Jedi/Sith for that matter can hope to defeat 3 powerhouse Sith at the same time. Even proponents of destruction like Nihilus and Palpatine would be taken down by such a trio.

"...it would be better to retreat..." - Dooku to Grievous comes to mind here. NJO authors need a refresher on the force, anyone can beat anyone, sure, but the Force is universal.

Even a weak knee Jedi with enough skill and knowledge of the force can be a threat to a powerhouse. Vader learnt that the hard way many times.

I did not see this thread. This is ridiculous. You've got Marka "I'm unchallenged for a century, surrounded by a planet full of Sith and I'm a badass" Ragnos, Naga "I make Force toys that make neophytes like Kun into Force Gods; oh and I'm wearing one" Sadow, and Exar "I take Sadow's amulet and became exponentially more powerful than any Force user in my entire era" Kun against Luke Skywalker. This is not a linear battle here, but the amount of Force power brought to bear on Luke Skywalker would be immense. Keep in mind Marka Ragnos made JA Luke crap his pants in spirit form; in the flesh, combined with Exar Kun who was likewise a threat to Luke and Sadow sporting the same amulets is overkill.

Luke one-shots.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Luke. It's a far greater advantage to have one being of significant power (abeloth, for example) against 3 beings of lesser power (note, not saying ancient sith are even relatively close to abeloth in power, just an analogy). Luke could, say, TK them all, or blitz one of em with blinding speed, among the top in the whole mythos. Or he could just legitimately outduel all of them, or even subdue them with lightning. And then there's the infamous fold space lightsaber into your heart.

Holy shit this guy is a 10/10 dumbass

Nah I think he's right.