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Who wins? Takes place in the dark council chamber

Nox imo.

The Wrath took down some Dark Council members, but the only one he beat by himself was Baras and it wasn't a stomp. Nox owned Thanaton. And imo Thanaton was one of the strongest Councilers there was. Even Darth Marr says he'd never thought anyone could take down Thanaton.

not too sure, they're both incredibly powerful sith lords. The Wrath was made to be able to take down ANYONE sans the emperor/HoT tho, so i'm not sure

Thats what the Wraths job is yes, but a Sith like Nox is a complete anomaly. Not only is she extremely powerful in her own right but she has the combined powers of 4 Sith Lords and one Voss Mystic to call upon.

and without that extra power, she would have lost to Thanaton
Perhaps that would amp her power, however that isn't the trump card. The Sith Emperor was amped on 8000 sith lords, and was still defeat-able, admittedly under certain circumstances.

Maybe? IIRC she didn't need it to swat aside his lightning with one hand.

Vitiate uses that power to keep himself immortal. SWTORE says that Nox is able to use the combined power of the ghosts.

The FLS/Maelstrom thing Thanaton creates clearly shows that Nox needed to draw on the power of the ghosts. Perhaps, but how powerful were these 4 sith lords?

One, Lord Ergast is one of the greatest Sith Sorcerers in the Empire's History. He's got his own statue right in the middle of Kaas City. Another, Darth Andru has killed like a bajillion people who have gone into his tomb. When you meet him he starts choking out Nox and knocks Khem Val out. Notably Thanaton is still able to pwn Nox after absorbing the power of those two ghosts. The you get Kalatosh Zavros, who was wrecking shit on Taris as a ghost, wiping out Republic Squads and stuff. Dude from the Mando wars who died in Malaks bombing. Finally you pick up Horuk-mul, who was Ludo Kressh's right hand man and was able to turn people insane and mentally dominate them as a ghost.

Either way the combined powers of 5 Sith Lords and 1 Voss Mystic (who are quite badass in their own right) amount to a ****ing lot.

you mean 4 sith lords and 1 voss mystic? Despite this, the Wrath was able to defeat Baras fairly easily, who has arguably better feats than Thanaton, and the Wrath still beat him twice I believe. Regardless, i'll go ahead and say they're equal.

No, cuz I'm counting Nox as well in that.

Pfft, Baras doesn't have better feats than Thanaton bro.

No, Nox creams the Wrath.

Baras- Controlled an entity, was amped by sel makor, stalemated satele shan, beat down angral with ease, very impressive saber skillz, actually managed to trap the sith emperor, etc.

Thanaton- Beat Exal Kressh (though not through superior power), very, very impressive lightning, beat Act 1 Nox.

Compare them as you wish

I'll just assume you were joking on that last part

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Baras- Controlled an entity,

Oh wow, good for him. Nox controlled 4. And not just with the Force Walking ritual. She has to kick all their asses at one point one after the other.

Thanaton has demonstrated he is above ghosts since he shredded through Nox's barrier when it was enhanced by TWO ghosts on top of Nox's own might.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
was amped by sel makor,

To an unknown degree.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
stalemated satele shan,

Lmao, no he didn't.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
beat down angral with ease,

A good feat but it did happen 13 years in the past.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
very impressive saber skillz,

Since when? Thanaton has more evidence of lightsaber skills comsidering his apprentice has 'unparrelled lightsaber skills' and he possesses Tulak Hords lightsaber techniques hanging up on his wall.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
actually managed to trap the sith emperor, etc.

Not through superior power. He tricked him into visiting Sel Makor who proceeded to try and possess him.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Thanaton- Beat Exal Kressh (though not through superior power), very, very impressive lightning, beat Act 1 Nox.

Yeah and at that point Nox already possessed the power of 2 Force Ghosts, one of which was one of the greatest Sorcerers to ever live. And when Thanaton got serious he still shredded through Nox's barrier like it was paper.

Thanaton also possesses at least 3 holocrons. And he has high praise by Marr backing him up. He's also defeated his own master, killed a gargantuan and fought evenly with a Jedi Master in the prequel comics.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Compare them as you wish

I'll just assume you were joking on that last part

I'm not. Even assuming the Wrath is twice as powerful as Nox normally is, with the combined power of 5 other powerful Force Users Nox vastly outstrips him in power.

Even if Baras is above Thanaton which I doubt, the degree to which Nox owned Thanaton outstrips how the Wrath beat Baras by wearing him down.

In fact just watch the fight:

O7_vlrEawDg

At 2.45 you can see that Baras is ****ing laughing and of the dialogue choices one has the Wrath out of breath and talking as if they're losing and another merely saying that they're holding their own (with the dialogue saying Baras is breathing just as hard as he is).

1. Except that Nox could barely control the power of the ghosts, even by act 2

2. True, still shows he possesses at least a very high amount of power

3. yes he did

4. So? The Exal Kressh feat is irrelevant then...

5. And Baras's apprentice was the best duelist in the whole empire

6. Simply displaying his cunning, the same thing Thanaton had to use to beat Exal Kressh

7. The ghosts are shadows of their former selves, and again, Nox didn't even know how to control them even by act 2. She overloads when she tries to draw on the power of the ghosts. Almost no one on the council backed Thanaton, while almost all backed Baras. Thanaton's master was obviously much weaker at that point. Okay, he's defeated a large, mindless monster. Is this "jedi master" impressive?

5 powerful force users who are shadows of their former selves, being in ghost form?

Did the wrath not beat Baras twice? To the point where he literally couldn't even summon his lightning?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Except that Nox could barely control the power of the ghosts, even by act 2

2. True, still shows he possesses at least a very high amount of power

3. yes he did

4. So? The Exal Kressh feat is irrelevant then...

5. And Baras's apprentice was the best duelist in the whole empire

6. Simply displaying his cunning, the same thing Thanaton had to use to beat Exal Kressh

7. The ghosts are shadows of their former selves, and again, Nox didn't even know how to control them even by act 2. She overloads when she tries to draw on the power of the ghosts. Almost no one on the council backed Thanaton, while almost all backed Baras. Thanaton's master was obviously much weaker at that point. Okay, he's defeated a large, mindless monster. Is this "jedi master" impressive?

5 powerful force users who are shadows of their former selves, being in ghost form?

Did the wrath not beat Baras twice? To the point where he literally couldn't even summon his lightning?

1) Nox couldn't contain the power of 4 ghosts. She doesn't show any effort in directing the power of 2 in the scene. I'm not aware of anything stating she couldn't control them at all until she loses control at the end of act 2. She's able to use it without trouble in the scene I'm talking about:

xU_0E9hMMDQ

13.10

2) Yes, Baras is undoubtedly powerful. I'm just not willing to say he's more powerful than Sith like Thanaton without some evidence.

3) They touched lightsabers once before standing down from what I've heard. According to those who have read the book it was not an actual fight.

4) Thanaton has only gotten more powerful since then though, whereas Baras? Has gotten fat and old. I think its notable that he gets the Warrior to do everything for him throughout the game instead of doing it himself.

5) Baras didn't train him at all though. And was he? Sure sure about that bro?

6) Pfft yeah ok. Not really the same thing.

7) The ghosts are shadows of their former selves? Since when? The ghosts of the Dark Temple kicked ass. As did Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd. The ghosts Nox gets seemed to be powerful as shit to me. Nox only overloads after she gets 4 ghosts and can't contain all that power. With just two she did fine. No-one backed Thanaton because he was a stuck up prick, while Baras was claiming to be the Voice and that made everyone nervous. Dunno about the Jedi Master but hey it was like 40 years before TOR.

8) They weren't shadows of their former selves.

No not really. Watch the video. You fight him twice but that's only gameplay. The fight keeps going til the end in one fight.

Baras is far more powerful than Thanaton if he could even make the suggestion that he was the Emperor's voice. If Thanaton said that he would have been laughed of the Council floor (and likely killed by Ravage).

If Thanaton is such big stuff, why did Ravage so casually talk of ending him. Furthermore, Marr's talk towards Thanaton was easily just him feeding into Darth Nox's ego to get her to help him with the situation on Makeb.

What does making the suggestion of being the Emperor's Voice mean? Nothing. Baras hasn't shown a fraction of the power that Thanaton wields.

As for your rationalization of Ravage, that's not an argument.

Again, who cares about Ravage? The guys in charge of diplomacy. I bet he's a pussy who was talking out of his ass about shutting Thanaton up.

It doesn't matter if he was talking shit about beating Thanaton. Nox can talk shit about winning the war all by herself. That doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, who cares about Ravage? The guys in charge of diplomacy. I bet he's a pussy who was talking out of his ass about shutting Thanaton up.

It doesn't matter if he was talking shit about beating Thanaton. Nox can talk shit about winning the war all by herself. That doesn't make it true.

Expansion and Diplomacy. In otherwords in the Cold War when Darth Malgus is like
"This is Darth Malgus of the Expeditionary Fleet", they've all been operating under the command of Ravage.



At the peak of his power none challenged Baras' claim because none could. I am pretty sure Vowrawn says most know Baras' claim is Bull, but he's too powerful to overthrow.

+

Baras makes powerplays with the most powerful Sith in the Galaxy.

People say 'oooo Thanaton' because of his glittery lightning. He's a puss.

Said "puss" tore through Nox's barrier when it was amped by two powerful Sith spirits.

No one challenged Baras because no-one had heard from the Emperor in so long. They were unsure of the situation.

If you have the quote from Vowrawn that would be nice.

Like I said, Baras doesn't seem to have anything on Nox. "But he convinced everyone he was the Emperor's Voice!!" So? And it was more like a 50-50 split, with those agreeing with him really erring on the side of caution, in case they were wrong.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Like I said, Baras doesn't seem to have anything on Nox. "But he convinced everyone he was the Emperor's Voice!!" So? And it was more like a 50-50 split, with those agreeing with him really erring on the side of caution, in case they were wrong.

Uh, he's the first Sith Lord in the history of the Empire to successfully powerplay against the Emperor. That's saying something considering 2 Dark Councils tried it and got ****ed.

Which speaks of Sel-Makors power more than his.

My point is that if anyone could declare themselves voice it wouldn't be a big deal. But the fact that people could with reasonable doubt even suspect Baras was the vessel for the most powerful being in the Galaxy means he's pretty ****ing powerful.

Thanaton has no such Hype.

Congrats, that makes him very intelligent and cunning and.....That's it.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Congrats, that makes him very intelligent and cunning and.....That's it.

Dumbass, do you really think you could pull something off like that without the martial prowess to back it up? Beneath all the politics and maneuvering they are still Sith Lords. The strongest rule. No one is going to bend over to someone who is weaker than they are. The Voice is able to speak for the Emperor because he/she has all the powers of the Emperor.

The fact that the Dark Councilors were willing to bend the knee to Baras even though many suspected he was full of shit about being the voice speaks volumes over Baras' power.

If Darth Vowrawn who has poor martial prowess and power due to age were to try and pull something like that, the Councilors would have treated him similar to if not worse than they treated Darth Zhorrid when she approaches the Council.

Like I said, you've proven nothing except Baras being cunning. You can continue crying and bitching like a little girl, but it doesn't help your case.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dumbass

The fact that this guy agrees with you essentially makes the argument for the other side. Nice self pwnage

I didn't agree with his argument. If that was so, I'd have quoted his whole post.

I didn't say you agreed with his argument

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Like I said, you've proven nothing except Baras being cunning. You can continue crying and bitching like a little girl, but it doesn't help your case.

You have to be more than cunning to take control of the Empire from 12 of the most powerful force sensitives in the galaxy. In order for them to take Baras' claim seriously they must have sensed his power. The reason people accept that the voice of the Emperor is the voice is because the Voice has the Emperor's power. That's why Marr said 'The one who lives speaks truth'. Because logically the Wrath could never defeat the Voice in martial combat. When he did it became pretty damned clear Baras was lying.

In otherwords the other Dark Councilors (at least a good majority) thought Baras to be invincible. If the Dark Council sensed weakness in anyone they'd strike. As other Dark Councils have tried twice.

No, they didn't. They erred on the side of caution. Half believed him, half didn't, but all were allowing the battle to take place to see what the truth was. All Baras proved was his cunning, nothing more.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
No, they didn't. They erred on the side of caution. Half believed him, half didn't, but all were allowing the battle to take place to see what the truth was. All Baras proved was his cunning, nothing more.

So then why would they believe Baras was the Emperor's Voice if he didn't wield the power of the Emperor?

Thats a stupid question because he doesn't wield the power of the Emperor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats a stupid question because he doesn't wield the power of the Emperor.

No but he was powerful enough for them to think that he did.

It's not about being powerful enough, it's about being cunning while using the threat of uncertainty, nothing more.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
It's not about being powerful enough, it's about being cunning while using the threat of uncertainty, nothing more.

It is about power, the position of the Voice was created specifically so that the Emperor could speak to his vassals with his full voice and power. A Sith would not so easily submit to being ruled by one weaker than themselves.

No it wasn't. It was created because Revan got close enough to threaten him so Vitiate created the Voice as a proxy to his real body.

A sith lord could also be cunning enough to make his fellow dark council members think twice before they call him a false prophet.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
A sith lord could also be cunning enough to make his fellow dark council members think twice before they call him a false prophet.

*False Voice. And no. Cunning only takes you so far in the Sith Empire. Which is precisely why the Emperor is the Emperor. With the entity and his powerbase intact Baras was easily more powerful than at least Thanaton imo.

Having the entity certainly placed Baras in a more favorable position to move up, but now you're being misleading because we're talking about personal power and combat prowess, which Thanaton spanks him on.

Pfft, yeah maybe with his awesome fortunetelling power, Dark Councillor sister and power base he's above Thanaton (though Thanaton does still have a considerable amount of followers), but in terms of actual power in battle Baras isn't as good as Thanaton. Wasn't that the whole point of Act III, that Baras was untouchable..... because of his powerbase and after the Wrath dismantles it, he goes and kicks his ass?

I'm still not seeing your point about why Nox is so bad despite having the power of 6 Sith Lord-level Force Users. Just cuz she doesn't get much respect? Thats such bollocks.

Nox has to easily be the most powerful player character in TOR.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Having the entity certainly placed Baras in a more favorable position to move up, but now you're being misleading because we're talking about personal power and combat prowess, which Thanaton spanks him on.

Thanaton's feats consist of being owned by Darth Nox. That's it.

Baras on the otherhand has casually stomped Angral, made the Emperor's Wrath struggle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pfft, yeah maybe with his awesome fortunetelling power, Dark Councillor sister and power base he's above Thanaton (though Thanaton does still have a considerable amount of followers), but in terms of actual power in battle Baras isn't as good as Thanaton. Wasn't that the whole point of Act III, that Baras was untouchable..... because of his powerbase and after the Wrath dismantles it, he goes and kicks his ass?

With much difficulty still. The Wrath, even after dismantling his powerbase was far from guaranteed victory over Baras.


Sith Lord isn't a level. Jadus is almost certainly stronger than Nox considering people go insane simply standing in his presence + holding your warship together through an explosion is some Darth Nihilus level shit.

Also doesn't Vowrawn flat out state Baras is the strongest Sith on the Council. I may have to revise my list further.

Jadus is said to be second to the Emperor by his own powerbase, so whether it's true or not, it's hearsay.

Thanaton and Nox are near the top of the list. Marr definitely has to be there. But Baras isn't as powerful as Thanaton, or Nox.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Nox has to easily be the most powerful player character in TOR.

Eh?

I dunno, the 2 Jedi are both really good and have great feats. The Barsen'thor beat a Sith Lord who was amped by the power of hundreds of Jedi while she was weakened. And went on to defeat Vitiates First Son. I'd say shes about equal to Nox.

And the Hero of Tython is even greater than her. I know you don't believe the HoT legit beat Vitiate but she is still referred to as the Jedi's greatest champion, putting her above the Barsen'thor. Even if it wasn't Vitiate or that the Voice isn't as up to snuff the feat is insane considering she fought through Kaas City (which is an entire city of soldiers), Vitiates cult and the Imperial Guard just to get to him.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Jadus is said to be second to the Emperor by his own powerbase, so whether it's true or not, it's hearsay.

Thanaton and Nox are near the top of the list. Marr definitely has to be there. But Baras isn't as powerful as Thanaton, or Nox.

Nope. Its said Jadus is second in power to the Emperor. Period. Considering this is stated by an Imperial Agent whose job is to know this stuff I'd take it as pretty reliable.

Thanaton and Nox may be more powerful than I think. But you are underestimating Baras imo.

That's not what it says. It's said "by people around Jadus" that Jadus is second in power to the Emperor. It's nothing more than hearsay.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
That's not what it says. It's said "by people around Jadus" that Jadus is second in power to the Emperor. It's nothing more than hearsay.

Its more than hearsay.
The only other Sith that causes people to go insane with his presence is the Emperor.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFm8jkNLCko
22:04
"As long as he has the spirit he cannot be defeated."

As I stated, Baras at the height of his power is more powerful than Thanaton.

Yes, he and his powerbase cannot be defeated as long as he has the Entity. Him in a 1 on 1 battle is an entirely different scenario, so no.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Yes, he and his powerbase cannot be defeated as long as he has the Entity. Him in a 1 on 1 battle is an entirely different scenario, so no.

That's not what Vowrawn said.
"As long as he has the spirit he cannot be defeated."


Prove he was talking about his powerbase.

There's nothing to prove. He cannot bring the entity into a fight. Furthermore, the 2nd Wrath first had to destroy the entity, then his powerbase, to the point where it was only Baras. So since everything points to what I just said, you'd have to prove he was talking about a one on one fight.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
There's nothing to prove. He cannot bring the entity into a fight. Furthermore, the 2nd Wrath first had to destroy the entity, then his powerbase, to the point where it was only Baras. So since everything points to what I just said, you'd have to prove he was talking about a one on one fight.

Yes there is.
First, he destroyed the powerbase on Corellia then the entity.

Second, he was leeching power from the entity and feeding it to himself. That's why he gained such power. I don't have to prove that. He said Baras cannot remain on the Dark Council. The way to remove a member of the Dark Council is physically. Why the **** else do you think he'd kill the entity before Baras when he already got rid of all the dirt he had on the Councillors.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3bBUPDXb2I

1:48

Watcher Two: We can't fight him on our own. His power is second to the Emperor's.


Yeah, gonna go ahead and say that an Imperial Intelligence agent wouldn't just throw that around. Its their job to know who's the most powerful Sith in the galaxy.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Thanaton's feats consist of being owned by Darth Nox. That's it.

Baras on the otherhand has casually stomped Angral, made the Emperor's Wrath struggle.

And owning Nox at the start of Act II when Nox was amped by the power of one of the greatest Sorcerers ever and Darth Crazypants McMurder. Its not like Nox was some random goober at that point either seeing as she was still able to kill powerful Jedi Masters and shatter stone with her lightning. And lets not forget that he beat a Child of the Emperor. Also he has extremely impressive lightning that created a vortex of energy and cracked the floor with its impact. SWTORE also refers to him as 'supremely powerful', possessing of 'insurmountable strength' and then several mentions of him being 'supreme' (Baras in comparison is only called 'powerful').

Meh. That doesn't put him above Thanaton in my books.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
With much difficulty still. The Wrath, even after dismantling his powerbase was far from guaranteed victory over Baras.

Which only speaks about the Warrior imo. Up to that point they haven't done anything that makes me think narrowly losing to him is an impressive feat.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sith Lord isn't a level. Jadus is almost certainly stronger than Nox considering people go insane simply standing in his presence + holding your warship together through an explosion is some Darth Nihilus level shit.

Also doesn't Vowrawn flat out state Baras is the strongest Sith on the Council. I may have to revise my list further.

It kind of is a level? Plus I'm fairly sure you need to be hot shit to become a Force Ghost anyway. And Voss Mystics and bamfs too. Either way Nox is hugely powerful to have their combined power.

Those two things about Jadus don't make him automatically above Nox. Him having an aura of pain (I don't recall him turning people insane with his presence) doesn't necessarily translate into power unless you think he's more powerful than Vitiate or Sidious. The warship thing is amazingly powerful. But that doesn't necessarily put him above other top-tier Sith either.

I don't know since I've only got to the end of the Warrior Prologue. But Darth Decimus calls Nox the most powerful Sith in generations if we're going just on peoples opinions. :shrug:

Yes..The entity was the center of his powerbase. So that proves my point. Secondly, the power he was leeching from the entity involved predicting the future and all those other things Kreia was good at, nothing involving combat. So once again, you have zero proof regarding Baras' combat prowess.


Sorry, but unless the agent has been around all of the other sith lords, this remains hearsay.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Yes..The entity was the center of his powerbase. So that proves my point. Secondly, the power he was leeching from the entity involved predicting the future and all those other things Kreia was good at, nothing involving combat. So once again, you have zero proof regarding Baras' combat prowess.
No...no it doesn't at all. You have failed to provide any evidence that Vowrawn was talking about his powerbase. You have no proof the entity was Kreia aside from an offhand remark by Karpshyn where even he admits he's not entirely sure.




They'd have intelligence on all other Sith Lords. So yes its more than hearsay its intelligence. That's why its called Imperial Intelligence.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And owning Nox at the start of Act II when Nox was amped by the power of one of the greatest Sorcerers ever and Darth Crazypants McMurder. Its not like Nox was some random goober at that point either seeing as she was still able to kill powerful Jedi Masters and shatter stone with her lightning. And lets not forget that he beat a Child of the Emperor. Also he has extremely impressive lightning that created a vortex of energy and cracked the floor with its impact. SWTORE also refers to him as 'supremely powerful', possessing of 'insurmountable strength' and then several mentions of him being 'supreme' (Baras in comparison is only called 'powerful').
Huh, not bad accolades at all. I think Thanaton likely is more powerful than Baras in a fair fight. But then again Thanaton is more powerful than Nox in a fair fight as well. But with their respective entities they are above him.



Aside from slaying 2 Dark Councilors?




Uhh do you have proof?



0:29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNXwjfhZj78
"Now I am asking you humbly to leave. These people are suffering in your presence."

I thought Vitiate did. And Palpatine was much better at suppressing his power than perhaps any Sith Lord in history.




That's a planetary quest. Not a class quest if I'm not mistaken.

Reaching at best. Completely baseless assumption at worse.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
Reaching at best. Completely baseless assumption at worse.

And yet Vowrawn who has far less spies then Jadus has complete knowledge of his powers and powerbase. Jadus has the most spies of any person in the galaxy sans perhaps the Emperor himself. To say he wouldn't have intelligence on his greatest rivals is reaching at best completely baseless assumption at worse.

That's a far cry from intelligence knowing if Jadus is second to the emperor in terms of power. I like how your conclusion was completely different than your initial assertion. Nice try.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
That's a far cry from intelligence knowing if Jadus is second to the emperor in terms of power. I like how your conclusion was completely different than your initial assertion. Nice try.

No it isn't Jadus is the head of Intelligence. Why wouldn't the one with the greatest number of spies not know who the strongest Lords on the Council are?

Also Imperial Intelligence's knowledge of the Sith in the Empire is vastly superior to yours. Your opinion is trumped by theirs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFm8jkNLCko

27:01

Another accolade.

"Even now Baras is nigh indestructible..."

That....Doesn't make any sense. My opinion might be trumped "in universe" but that doesn't make their opinion any less hearsay. Until you have a case, move on.

Also, technically my opinion trumps there since I have all encompassing knowledge as a player in the game, so another point for me.


Awesome! Prove it relates to combat ability and not power base.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Huh, not bad accolades at all. I think Thanaton likely is more powerful than Baras in a fair fight. But then again Thanaton is more powerful than Nox in a fair fight as well. But with their respective entities they are above him.

I think if nothing else they are close and Baras does not outclass Thanaton in my mind. But again I must point to the fact that Nox utterly owned Thanaton for my estimation of power.

Looking through that video you posted, Vowrawn does seem to be stressing that Baras is stealing the Entity's visions rather than her force power. He still has Sel Makors amp though.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Aside from slaying 2 Dark Councilors?

He fought Darth Vengean with Draagh's help and he fought Darth Ekkage with the help pf Jedi Master Somminick Timmns. Baras is the only time he beats a Dark Councilor without aid and by himself.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Uhh do you have proof?

Of what?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
0:29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNXwjfhZj78
"Now I am asking you humbly to leave. These people are suffering in your presence."

I thought Vitiate did. And Palpatine was much better at suppressing his power than perhaps any Sith Lord in history.

He causes suffering with his presence, not insanity.

Scourge felt nothing but nerves when he spoke to Vitiate.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That's a planetary quest. Not a class quest if I'm not mistaken.

True, I was merely pointing out that opinions do not amount to much. Evidence is the real arbiter of worth.

Originally posted by mstanford2912
That....Doesn't make any sense. My opinion might be trumped "in universe" but that doesn't make their opinion any less hearsay. Until you have a case, move on.


Do you have proof it's based on hearsay?



Nope.


Because he was just takin about fighting Baras the sentence before fop.

Nobody has to prove it's hearsay. It was said by one non force sensitive individual, so the burden of proof is all on you buddy.

Originally posted by jsanders316
Nobody has to prove it's hearsay. It was said by one non force sensitive individual, so the burden of proof is all on you buddy.

An operative of the largest intelligence sphere in the galaxy that encompasses multiple force sensitives said it. Try again pal.

Wonderful reaching. I accept your concession, we can move on now.

Originally posted by jsanders316
Wonderful reaching. I accept your concession, we can move on now.

Whatever you say Mstan...I mean jsanders

Oh snap, you figured out the obvious?! You should not be here. You should be heading up major crimes units in DC. Forget that, you should be heading up PRECRIME with those powers of deductive reasoning. Good for you..Really, good for you.

Originally posted by jsanders316
Oh snap, you figured out the obvious?! You should not be here. You should be heading up major crimes units in DC. Forget that, you should be heading up PRECRIME with those powers of deductive reasoning. Good for you..Really, good for you.

You do realized dupe accounts are against the rules right genius?

You do realize that nobody gives a shit about Ush's policies right genius?

Originally posted by jsanders316
You do realize that nobody gives a shit about Ush's policies right genius?

Have fun with your two restricted accounts.

Inb4theban.

Two?

Try two hundred.

Two hundred? No, I have 373 left to be precise. One gets banned, log on another one via TOR, bingo. And Yoda, it's so nice that you try to have me banned after I made your argument look like the NY Giants.

This is just a Juggernaught vs Sorcerer argument. I'd personally say all of the SWTOR protagonists are equal in their own right, just have different skillsets.

and they're above malgus

Nu. >:C

I remembered a cool feat of Nox's. Beating this droid:

DlMUvjP4MM8


3.35. What even was that and why was it so heavy???

It's obviously a terminator...

Nox has a sexier voice and thus wins. Plus my SI was a pureblood. Racial superiority ftw.

what would happen if darth nox had the sith emperor's ghost when he died

Nox still wins.

An argument can be made for both sith but isnt the Sith Warrior meant to be the greatest warrior of the sith side just like HoT being the greatest of republic side? HoT and Wrath are like the main characters of the game.

I think Nox can be more destructive in a war zone but 1on1 Wrath should be able to cut him down. Nox' force powers aren't that superior to other top sith of the Empire.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nox' force powers aren't that superior to other top sith of the Empire.
LMFAO

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LMFAO

He is no Vitiate. He isnt powerful enough to crush Wrath in the force. There would be a duel and Wrath is the superior combatant.

Prolly he Wrath tbh. Also, Nox was a human--Wrath was a pureblood. I thought this was made obvious by the game?

yes Nox will still win against The Wrath But with Vitiate's force ghost under the control of Darth Nox and he will be the next emperor and the previously Emperor's Wrath would be the his wrath instead thus making this contest done.

WINNER!!!!!! Darth Nox The new Sith Emperor WINNER!!!!!!

Originally posted by Sinious
He is no Vitiate. He isnt powerful enough to crush Wrath in the force. There would be a duel and Wrath is the superior combatant.
You never said Vitiate, you said top Sith of the Empire (Darth Ravage, etc). Reread what you say next time.

Wrath.

Nah, Nox.

Wrath killed the Voice. That's far better than anything Nox ever did.

Jadus.

Originally posted by ares834
Wrath killed the Voice. That's far better than anything Nox ever did.

He killed a Voice possessed by Sel Makor.

Sel Makor is a non-corporeal entity. He's literally never been in a fight before that point. Plus Vitiate was almost certainly resisting.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I remembered a cool feat of Nox's. Beating this droid:

DlMUvjP4MM8


3.35. What even was that and why was it so heavy???

Droids like the B-3 Cortosis droid had these weird Feet and Legs that allowed them to artificially increase their gravity by like x1000 as a way to literally step on and one shot tanks.

Might be that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You never said Vitiate, you said top Sith of the Empire (Darth Ravage, etc). Reread what you say next time.

I meant that he can't just go around and dominate other top tier sith/jedi of his era with the force like Vitiate does. SI is a major badass but Wrath is even better. Nox would taste Wrath's saber.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He killed a Voice possessed by Sel Makor.

Sel Makor is a non-corporeal entity. He's literally never been in a fight before that point. Plus Vitiate was almost certainly resisting.



Still very impressive though.