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Sabers
Force
All Out

I'm going with Kun in all 3. The questipnable one is Force, but I think Kun takes that as well(he taught Kyppy them uber Tendrils, implying that he knows how to do it). However, Krayt does have very powerful lightning (in rankings, i consider Sidious, then Vitiate, then Bane, then Krayt/Malgus). And Krayt does have good saber skills, just that he was defeated in sabers, while Kun was never truly defeated in his time as a Sith. And its plausible that if the duel hadn't been interrupted by Ragnos, Kun would have beat Qel Droma.

lemme just sum this up with an excerpt from swtor.com's forums:

I already know exactly what kind of statement is going to be made against this: 'he had enhancements' in the form of his Amulet and his gauntlets.

This is an assumption and not canon, those objects only quickened his corruption to the Dark Side, for a small amount of time they imbued his power, but afterwards their effectiveness dwindled till the point that at his corruption of the Jedi knights and padawans via a holocron, they did nothing for him and he wore them for aesthetics and intimidation factor only.

Exar Kun was very powerful and he did not require the aid of power imbuing objects to enhance this power, by the time of Ulic's capture at Coruscant, Ulic admitted no one person was powerful to face him directly, which is why the entire 10,000+ strong Jedi Order had to turn up and attempt to stop him.

Exar Kun was beyond his duelling skills most infamous for being able to attack someone or multiple persons with a blast of pure Dark Side energy, an energy that even the likes of Darth Bane had no defence against at all and he flopped around like a fish out of water when a Dark Side Tendril severed his arm.

Exar Kun was the strongest user of Dark Side energetic blasts on record, when Aleema Keto attempted to kill him with this ability he simply absorbed the blow and blasted her with a far stronger attack that Aleema only survived by shielding herself with a dark side force bubble that only took the brunt of the attack, it still knocked her unconscious.

Exar Kun showed his total mastery of Force Blast against Gantoris, using it via his eyes instead of his hands, totally incinerating the promising Jedi Knight.

Exar Kun was also a master practitioner of Force Flight able to move at will in a strain similar to Count Dooku.

Exar Kun's mastery of Sith Alchemy and Magics was nothing short of spectacular, he could easily create hosts of Sith war beasts including the dreaded Terentatek, eventually this power was so immense it allowed him to absorb the Massassi species and abandon his body. 4,000 years after this as a Sith Spirit Kun would have used the students of the Jedi Praxeum to rebuild his own body through his alchemy, essentially allowing him to move from the corporeal to the non-corporeal whenever he wished.

His Force Sense was also powerful enough to know his apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma was endangered from half the galaxy away.

Kun's duelling skills are also valid here, as his form relied on Force prowess to be used, he was the most powerful and skilled Niman user on record, taking it to it's highest form, he mastered it to such a degree that he could easily use the force to randomly turn one or both blades on and off mid-combat with no manual button, he could also do the same thing and change the length of each blade as he saw fit, as he gained esoteric levels of power in the Dark Side he threw any type of moderation or balance out of his lightsaber style and incorporated highly proficient levels of Juyo and Ataru(in the form of Force Flight), this was so powerful that masters of Djem-So Vodo Siosk Baas and Ulic Qel-Droma had to stay on the defensive and in one case was totally overpowered and killed(Baas).

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
lemme just sum this up with an excerpt from swtor.com's forums:

I already know exactly what kind of statement is going to be made against this: 'he had enhancements' in the form of his Amulet and his gauntlets.

This is an assumption and not canon, those objects only quickened his corruption to the Dark Side, for a small amount of time they imbued his power, but afterwards their effectiveness dwindled till the point that at his corruption of the Jedi knights and padawans via a holocron, they did nothing for him and he wore them for aesthetics and intimidation factor only.

Exar Kun was very powerful and he did not require the aid of power imbuing objects to enhance this power, by the time of Ulic's capture at Coruscant, Ulic admitted no one person was powerful to face him directly, which is why the entire 10,000+ strong Jedi Order had to turn up and attempt to stop him.

Exar Kun was beyond his duelling skills most infamous for being able to attack someone or multiple persons with a blast of pure Dark Side energy, an energy that even the likes of Darth Bane had no defence against at all and he flopped around like a fish out of water when a Dark Side Tendril severed his arm.

Exar Kun was the strongest user of Dark Side energetic blasts on record, when Aleema Keto attempted to kill him with this ability he simply absorbed the blow and blasted her with a far stronger attack that Aleema only survived by shielding herself with a dark side force bubble that only took the brunt of the attack, it still knocked her unconscious.

Exar Kun showed his total mastery of Force Blast against Gantoris, using it via his eyes instead of his hands, totally incinerating the promising Jedi Knight.

Exar Kun was also a master practitioner of Force Flight able to move at will in a strain similar to Count Dooku.

Exar Kun's mastery of Sith Alchemy and Magics was nothing short of spectacular, he could easily create hosts of Sith war beasts including the dreaded Terentatek, eventually this power was so immense it allowed him to absorb the Massassi species and abandon his body. 4,000 years after this as a Sith Spirit Kun would have used the students of the Jedi Praxeum to rebuild his own body through his alchemy, essentially allowing him to move from the corporeal to the non-corporeal whenever he wished.

His Force Sense was also powerful enough to know his apprentice Ulic Qel-Droma was endangered from half the galaxy away.

Kun's duelling skills are also valid here, as his form relied on Force prowess to be used, he was the most powerful and skilled Niman user on record, taking it to it's highest form, he mastered it to such a degree that he could easily use the force to randomly turn one or both blades on and off mid-combat with no manual button, he could also do the same thing and change the length of each blade as he saw fit, as he gained esoteric levels of power in the Dark Side he threw any type of moderation or balance out of his lightsaber style and incorporated highly proficient levels of Juyo and Ataru(in the form of Force Flight), this was so powerful that masters of Djem-So Vodo Siosk Baas and Ulic Qel-Droma had to stay on the defensive and in one case was totally overpowered and killed(Baas).

I didn't even know half of this stuff. I knew he KOed Aleema and he was the greatest Niman user to date, but I had no idea he could "fly", had some proficiency in Juyo and Ataru, and that the amulets technically didn't give him a power boost (or a noticeable one).

Yeah, Dooku had a similar ability, as shown in the Original Clone Wars series. I understand the amulet thing, as Palpatine said, the trinkets are a stepping stone to gain ones true power. In this situation, Kun would need the amulets to amplify his power, however as he kept using them he gained a mastery over them to an extent that the amulets barely gave a power boost.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, Dooku had a similar ability, as shown in the Original Clone Wars series. I understand the amulet thing, as Palpatine said, the trinkets are a stepping stone to gain ones true power. In this situation, Kun would need the amulets to amplify his power, however as he kept using them he gained a mastery over them to an extent that the amulets barely gave a power boost.

But where does it state that Kun had decent skill in Ataru and Juyo? I'm quite interested in this.

Well, let's see. It's no where stated, but implied. As said, he mastered Niman to the point where he would have no moderation or balance when he battled, and he used elements of Juyo and Ataru when fighting his opponents because of this. Further showing his removal of moderation was when he overwhelmed and killed the likes of Baas, and put the likes of Baas and Droma on the defensive when he fought, signaling an extremely aggressive fighting style.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well, let's see. It's no where stated, but implied. As said, he mastered Niman to the point where he would have no moderation or balance when he battled, and he used elements of Juyo and Ataru when fighting his opponents because of this. Further showing his removal of moderation was when he overwhelmed and killed the likes of Baas, and put the likes of Baas and Droma on the defensive when he fought, signaling an extremely aggressive fighting style.

He could be using Shii Cho, Shien or Djem So. Those styles are also highly agressive. In fact, in the hands of masters, Shii Cho was highly randomized and unpredictable. Shien was more for blast deflection, but heck, we have Galen Marek with his dueling "Sith Shien" nonsense. And Djem So was all about completely overwhelming your opponent with powerful attacks. But I see your point.

They're highly aggressive, but he was also very acrobatic when he fought, and frequently used kicks and what not. This leads to the conclusion that he used Ataru and Juyo.

The Kotor Campaign Guide only lists him as having Niman. I don't know how accurate that is though since no-one else has a lightsaber form listed.


Also Revan has some seriously bonkers stats. Dude must be cheating.

Lemme re-word what I said. He used elements of Juyo and Ataru in his fighting style.

He does?

So Im assuming everyone thinks that Kun just outclasses Krayt and wins in all 3 categories.

Exar Kun:

Destiny: 3 Force: 8 Dark Side: 15

Str - 17 Dex - 17 Con - 15 Int - 14 Wis - 15 Cha - 17

Revan:

Destiny: 4 Force: 8 Dark Side: 16

Str - 17 Dex - 17 Con - 14 Int - 15 (some genius) Wis - 18 Cha - 19

And they're the same level. Cheating bastard, he has 5 more stat points than Kun!

I say Kun wins overall. Krayt puts up a good fight tho.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Exar Kun:

Destiny: 3 Force: 8 Dark Side: 15

Str - 17 Dex - 17 Con - 15 Int - 14 Wis - 15 Cha - 17

Revan:

Destiny: 4 Force: 8 Dark Side: 16

Str - 17 Dex - 17 Con - 14 Int - 15 (some genius) Wis - 18 Cha - 19

And they're the same level. Cheating bastard, he has 5 more stat points than Kun!

dafuq? lol

Also Nihilus is broken as hell, unsurprisingly. 20 d6 damage to 3 people, ouch.

I'd go Krayt, especially if we're talking sans armor.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Exar Kun:

Destiny: 3 Force: 8 Dark Side: 15

Revan:

Destiny: 4 Force: 8 Dark Side: 16



Krayt:

Destiny: 3 Force: 10 Dark Side: 20

And lemme guess, they're all level 20?



Though the stats in the KotoR guide sound better than the Legacy ones (Krayt- str 14 and wis 20! That makes no sense! Grand Master Kol Skywalker's a level 14 Jedi! Darth Nihl, str 11! I think the stats were made based on early notes or something, it came out fairly early in the comic's run).

Krayt probably.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd go Krayt, especially if we're talking sans armor.





Krayt:

Destiny: 3 Force: 10 Dark Side: 20

And lemme guess, they're all level 20?



Though the stats in the KotoR guide sound better than the Legacy ones (Krayt- str 14 and wis 20! That makes no sense! Grand Master Kol Skywalker's a level 14 Jedi! Darth Nihl, str 11! I think the stats were made based on early notes or something, it came out fairly early in the comic's run).

They really aren't. Some of the stats are ****ing retarded. Like, ok, I know people don't think the Exile is amazingly powerful or whatever because stupid, but it makes no sense for her to only be level 15 while Traya and Sion are level 20 and 19. She beat both of them! She beat Sion five times in a row for gods sake! And she doesn't even get 1 level in Jedi Master? You become a Jedi Master in the game when you go to that cave. You actually get levels in Jedi Master in the game. Though she does have good stats for her level.

Also Malak has 20 Charisma. Lol, yeah because he just oozes personal magnetism.

Also all the Sith are horribly overpowered and the Jedi all suck. The only good Jedi is Uliq. And even he is kind of crap. Why not have Nomi? Or Thon or whoever.

Originally posted by Nephthys
They really aren't. Some of the stats are ****ing retarded. Like, ok, I know people don't think the Exile is amazingly powerful or whatever because stupid, but it makes no sense for her to only be level 15 while Traya and Sion are level 20 and 19. She beat both of them! She beat Sion five times in a row for gods sake! And she doesn't even get 1 level in Jedi Master? You become a Jedi Master in the game when you go to that cave. You actually get levels in Jedi Master in the game. Though she does have good stats for her level.

Also Malak has 20 Charisma. Lol, yeah because he just oozes personal magnetism.

Also all the Sith are horribly overpowered and the Jedi all suck. The only good Jedi is Uliq. And even he is kind of crap. Why not have Nomi? Or Thon or whoever.


What...?

I know you're joking, I just don't understand where this is coming from.

I'm not joking.

Then what the **** are you talking about?

The Star Wars tabletop RPG. Like D&D, only with Star Wars.

Oh.

Never played D&D.

In all seriousness:

Originally posted by XRKun
So Im assuming everyone thinks that Kun just outclasses Krayt and wins in all 3 categories.

I don't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Exar Kun:

Destiny: 3 Force: 8 Dark Side: 15

Str - 17 Dex - 17 Con - 15 Int - 14 Wis - 15 Cha - 17

Revan:

Destiny: 4 Force: 8 Dark Side: 16

Str - 17 Dex - 17 Con - 14 Int - 15 (some genius) Wis - 18 Cha - 19

And they're the same level. Cheating bastard, he has 5 more stat points than Kun!

I recall that Kun did a better DPS though comparatively, so in a straight up fight he'd win 2/3 times. I have the guide at home, though it's been some time since I cracked it open.

And most of the Star Wars d20 supplementals are bizarre. There's not much stratification at level 20 either. Yoda, Sidious, Kun, Revan, Ragnos, and Sadow are all 20s, with relatively small differences except in the case of the last two who get very few feats and abilities and are basically considered dead in the setting.

This is actually a really good fight. I'd say Krayt is the martial artist while Exar Kun's the greater force wielder, considering he has his amulets. I'm not entirely sure on this one, I'll get back to it.

I do agree it's a good fight, should be epic. The amulets give Kun a lot of power in the force, to help make up for Krayt's much longer study in it.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I recall that Kun did a better DPS though comparatively, so in a straight up fight he'd win 2/3 times. I have the guide at home, though it's been some time since I cracked it open.

And most of the Star Wars d20 supplementals are bizarre. There's not much stratification at level 20 either. Yoda, Sidious, Kun, Revan, Ragnos, and Sadow are all 20s, with relatively small differences except in the case of the last two who get very few feats and abilities and are basically considered dead in the setting.


Emperor Roan Fel is level 20, while the highest level Jedi in the Legacy book is level 15 (Sazen, who tops the former grandmaster Kol for some reason). Shado Vao, who's fought the Sith Emperor's Hands and Antares Draco (level 15, and in the comic at least as strong if not stronger than Roan) on good terms, is level 10, and Darth Maleval, a Sith political officer and not a high commander of any sort, is level 13. Darth Nihl is level 16, higher than any Jedi in the book.


Originally posted by Nephthys

Also all the Sith are horribly overpowered and the Jedi all suck. The only good Jedi is Uliq. And even he is kind of crap. Why not have Nomi? Or Thon or whoever.

Huh, combined with the above, do the writers just underpower Jedi?

Considering in the Legacy book, both Imperial Knights and Sith well outpower the Jedi characters, even when in the comic the specific individuals are clearly on the same tier (and by that I mean they've had not just one but multiple battles that end in stalemates, so it's really, really established).

Saul Karath is a higher level than the Exile. :T

Apparently the best Jedi are Uliq and Bastila at level 17. Oh, and Vandar ****ing Tokare. Because he was clearly such a badass (**** whoever thought Vandar was better than the Exile. How many Sith Temples has he soloed you ****!?). The Sith get 5 level 20's (Kun, Revan, Malak, Traya + Nihilus) and Sion at level 19.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Saul Karath is a higher level than the Exile. :T

Apparently the best Jedi are Uliq and Bastila at level 17. Oh, and Vandar ****ing Tokare. Because he was clearly such a badass (**** whoever thought Vandar was better than the Exile. How many Sith Temples has he soloed you ****!?). The Sith get 5 level 20's (Kun, Revan, Malak, Traya + Nihilus) and Sion at level 19.


I really think either (a) the authors don't like Jedi, or (b) they assume the players will be Jedi and taking on the big bads, and therefore the Jedi are depowered to get out of their way.

I can kinda see Vandar being fairly high due to being the one assigned to retrain Revan and an important council member... but in terms of badassness, there's no excuse for the Exile being low.



The Legacy Sith have one 20, two 16s (though in Wyyrlok's case that's on the low side. Though it was put out before he got much role in the comic to be fair), two 15s, and even the fodder Maleval gets to be level 13.


The Jedi get to be 15, 14 (grand master of the Jedi order!), 10, and 10. One of the 10s being Jedi master Shado Vao.

Off-topic, but how exactly do you play the RPG? You just take a role as one of the characters and just do a turn-based offense?

Originally posted by The Merchant
Off-topic, but how exactly do you play the RPG? You just take a role as one of the characters and just do a turn-based offense?

It's basically a d20 version of Star Wars, or modified DnD ruleset. You need some imagination, Cheetos, Mountain Dew, a GM screen, dice, and enough guides to block a 50 cal bullet and you're set. KotOR is somewhat based on it, albeit very very watered down. Bioware made Neverwinter Nights prior to KotOR and that game is itself a d20 RPG. You can find it on GOG.com.

Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord, but I do like your signature pic Stealth Moose. Though funnily enough, the thing that stands out most in it to me is that Palpatine is wearing dress pants under his robes as well as polished shoes. It's just... Hilarious!

Originally posted by The Merchant
Off-topic, but how exactly do you play the RPG? You just take a role as one of the characters and just do a turn-based offense?


You normally make your own character, and yes, turn-based action. With a person to preside, control all the NPCs, and also determine outcomes for odder actions.


Like, since it's in person, you wanna just toss that sealed can onto the open plasma torch and see if it explodes? Even if it was completely unplanned by the game master, you could.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord, but I do like your signature pic Stealth Moose. Though funnily enough, the thing that stands out most in it to me is that Palpatine is wearing dress pants under his robes as well as polished shoes. It's just... Hilarious!

Yeah, that always struck me too. "Future sci fi epic! Dockers pants and dress shoes!"

Dockers were popular in the time of the New Sith Wars, and largely fell out of fashion after the Ruusian Reforms. Palpatine's pants, while merely archaic to some, hinted at his true allegiance...

Wow. That's pretty deep, considering we're discussing the pants of a fictional scrotum-faced character.

But yeah, I just might give an edge to Krayt, here. Does he have his armor? Because that would seal the deal for me~

Op doesn't say. Either way has it's advantages (armor is obviously armor. Sans armor, he doesn't have to fight the implants and is even stronger in the force, and he picked up a few new tricks when he did).