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This is Gohan from the movie 'Fusion Reborn'. He one punched killed Frieza. Think real hard on this before answering.

Stronger than Frieza, even Future Trunks could one punch Frieza if he wanted to so it's hard to gauge the height of his strength.

Ultimate gohan end of dbz is the stongest z fighter in terms of power. Goku is just a better fighter

He means in terms of strength feats.

Freeza survived a planet exploding. Gohan one shot him with a punch. Therefore his punch>planet exploding.

Presumably this is what Carter wants people to conclude.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
He means in terms of strength feats.

Freeza survived a planet exploding. Gohan one shot him with a punch. Therefore his punch>planet exploding.

Presumably this is what Carter wants people to conclude.

This is what I got from it but I could be wrong. Example...If a being has survived planetary destructions along with Nuclear blasts and someone was to one punch kill them...wouldn't that give us an indication on how strong that character is? Especially considering a lot of those attacks includes blunt force as well. I could be wrong though.

fusion reborn isnt canon though... if it was then that was make enough sense to be he case

If that were the case then wouldn't Goku still be less durable then Frieza?

Originally posted by chasedown
fusion reborn isnt canon though... if it was then that was make enough sense to be he case

I know it isn't canon...This is just a general question.

@Wei

Why is Goku less durable?

Because Goku never survived a planet explosion or the force that could destroy a planet.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Because Goku never survived a planet explosion or the force that could destroy a planet.

Plus Frieza survived being cut in half. Frieza may be weak but he has some serious durability feats.

Frieza knows what he is looking at. The fact that he saw the image of his father inside of him struck fear into Frieza and Gohan knocked his already dead self inside of one punch.

I've been wanting to do this for a long time. Gohan astounded the Z fighters and upsetted many of his enemies with a 4th grade education and met with Goku training with him night and day for 3 and 1/2 years then went away leaving him on Earth with a mission to raise the human race up from the grave of physical and mental death. Gohan was often laughed at, mocked, scorned and ridiculed. However his enemies knew better. When disaster broke out by order The enemy started go after Gohan's power and had him taken off the streets because they didn't want him teaching mankind the proper use of themselves for they wanted to use their bodies to instigate a massacre that wasn't in their best interest. Gohan came to greater power when he encountered the Elder Kai and became Mystic Gohan and had the power to take on an Unfused Super Buu

Frieza's durability was calced to be in the triple digits teraton, which is merely country level+ from the planet explosion shit

Surface area and all that

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Because Goku never survived a planet explosion or the force that could destroy a planet.

Their fight proved that Goku is more durable than Frieza and when did Goku have the chance to survive a planet exploding on him? Goku stats being far above Frieza is proof that he could survive.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Plus Frieza survived being cut in half. Frieza may be weak but he has some serious durability feats.

Goku was fighting with a hole in his chest...And this was him at far less power than he have now. Tien fought with his arm chopped off. Piccolo was shattered into a million pieces. Krillin lived after having a horn stabbed clean through his body. Babadi was still talking after being chopped in half. It's DBZ...that doesn't prove these people are more durable than Goku. Trunk blast fried a more powerful Frieza. Goku would have withstood that blast...Super Saiyan Goku Finger blocked multiple blade slices from the same sword that cut Frieza into skittles. It's obvious who is more durable.

I agree with Carver. Durability is how much you can survive while at your best. Gohan being killed while unconscious doesn't count as durability, as even two day old dying baby Broly was able to tank a planet busting while saving his father and himself.

Anyway, Kid Buu, going by Supreme Kai's statement, is a galaxy buster with one attack. Goku said, in the manga, that Gohan could easily beat Kid Buu, meaning his potency is AT LEAST higher than galaxy level.

You are all idiots. Everyone of the Z-fighters can withstand a planetary explosion (except Yamcha). But none of them can breath in space, bar FRIEZA, CELL and BUU. That is the only reason they die when the planet blows up.

Also I never said Goku was less durable all I said was: Frieza has some serious durability feats. Nothing more was said. We know Frieza is a pissant.

Honestly Dragon Ball Z is one of the most inconsistent anything of all time. It literally riddled with contradictions. There is actually a scene in the android saga where Krillin and Piccolo can't open a metal door............

Heh. Rumors on the internet is that there will be a new movie and Vegeta will be the protagonist. Supposedly Goku's mom will be revealed lol.

So...lol wtf. **** consistency. Expect vegeta to wtflol at canon/power levels like in Battle of the Gods.

I don't mind it, but at this point Akira doing something like that would feel so forced lol. I mean...**** Vegeta has the most developed backstory ever. Ties in everywhere lol. What if...Vegeta is Goku's bro?!

LOL. Dem Rumors.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Heh. Rumors on the internet is that there will be a new movie and Vegeta will be the protagonist. Supposedly Goku's mom will be revealed lol.

So...lol wtf. **** consistency. Expect vegeta to wtflol at canon/power levels like in Battle of the Gods.

I don't mind it, but at this point Akira doing something like that would feel so forced lol. I mean...**** Vegeta has the most developed backstory ever. Ties in everywhere lol. What if...Vegeta is Goku's bro?!

LOL. Dem Rumors.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110419162922/dragonball/images/3/3d/PRINCE_VEGETA.gif

Originally posted by carver9
Their fight proved that Goku is more durable than Frieza and when did Goku have the chance to survive a planet exploding on him? Goku stats being far above Frieza is proof that he could survive.

When Cell used a move that was supposed to destroy the planet Earth but instead destroyed Kai's planet? Did you forget that Cell killed him? Also what proof was there that Mecha Frieza was anymore powerful than Namek Frieza?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I agree with Carver. Durability is how much you can survive while at your best. Gohan being killed while unconscious doesn't count as durability, as even two day old dying baby Broly was able to tank a planet busting while saving his father and himself.

Anyway, Kid Buu, going by Supreme Kai's statement, is a galaxy buster with one attack. Goku said, in the manga, that Gohan could easily beat Kid Buu, meaning his potency is AT LEAST higher than galaxy level.

Broly is noncanon, being unconscious doesn't make you less durable.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
You are all idiots.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

Anyway, Kid Buu, going by Supreme Kai's statement, is a galaxy buster with one attack. Post the scan.

Originally posted by Bentley


I'm sorry. I meant, you are being mislead.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Post the scan.

Ya know, you tell me to post this scan EVERY time I bring it up. You also seem equally disappointed every time I do.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9000/371313tm8.gif

I didn't see "single blast" anywhere in that scan.

I also never got the chapter number out of you when you posted that.

Where does it say that he did it with one attack?

Originally posted by NemeBro
I didn't see "single blast" anywhere in that scan.

I also never got the chapter number out of you when you posted that.

So either he can destroy galaxies, or he can move around 700 billion times faster than light speed, give or take.

Generally in DBZ though, when someone says they can or someone else can destroy something, they will say if they mean over time. Either way, it lines up with what we've seen in cannon, and even in movies, meaning it's pretty legit, and you can't disprove it.

So stop trying.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Where does it say that he did it with one attack?

Where does it say he did it with more than one attack?

When has anyone in DBZ said they can destroy something when they meant they could do so with multiple attacks? Frieza said he could planet bust, and he did so many times with a single attack.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
and you can't disprove it.

So stop trying.

Gotta love SSGG tactics.

http://www.topfeuds.com/products/m_15_1255533416.jpg

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So either he can destroy galaxies, or he can move around 700 billion times faster than light speed, give or take.

Generally in DBZ though, when someone says they can or someone else can destroy something, they will say if they mean over time. Either way, it lines up with what we've seen in cannon, and even in movies, meaning it's pretty legit, and you can't disprove it.

So stop trying. Or his master teleported him around to do it.

Only it is directly said to be over time.

Remember when Goku and Vegeta said they couldn't stop Kid Buu's planet busting attack?

Boy I do.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So either he can destroy galaxies, or he can move around 700 billion times faster than light speed, give or take.

Generally in DBZ though, when someone says they can or someone else can destroy something, they will say if they mean over time. Either way, it lines up with what we've seen in cannon, and even in movies, meaning it's pretty legit, and you can't disprove it.

So stop trying.

So it takes him a few years to destroy galaxies with one attack? He must be slow as molasses then.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So either he can destroy galaxies, or he can move around 700 billion times faster than light speed, give or take.



Well people in dbz can teleport, so likely just teleported around.

kidd buu can teleport he isnt ls

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
When Cell used a move that was supposed to destroy the planet Earth but instead destroyed Kai's planet? Did you forget that Cell killed him? Also what proof was there that Mecha Frieza was anymore powerful than Namek Frieza?

There is a difference between being shot by a powerful opponent vs a planet exploding on you. Cell can kill Goku with a blast that wouldn't even lay waste to a city but that doesn't mean that it takes less than city level destruction to kill Goku. It was cell power that killed him, not the planet explosion. Frieza actually withstood a planet explosion whereas Goku blasts (especially his last attack), ripped through Frieza. Another example...Vegeta endured Nappa two finger city destroying attack without a scratch and that attack was seen in space but yet Frieza killed a more powerful Vegeta with a blast that didn't even destroy the rocks behind him. There is a time to use collateral damage and a time to use common sense. Frieza survived a planet destruction but he would have melted instantly from the same attack that killed Goku and destroyed snake way. What we know is, Goku is more durable than Frieza as shown per his fight against Trunks. Anything after that is a stomp. DBZ isn't inconsistent, people just don't think.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Well people in dbz can teleport, so likely just teleported around.

He didn't know how to use IT during that time.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or his master teleported him around to do it.

Only it is directly said to be over time.

Remember when Goku and Vegeta said they couldn't stop Kid Buu's planet busting attack?

Boy I do.

When did his master show teleportation?

are you really comparing Kid Buu blast to an average planet busting attack?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Where does it say that he did it with one attack?

This is where we need to use the brain. It said he destroyed countless planet and entire GALAXIES (MORE THAN ONE...hell, more than two as well) in a few yrs. The speed of light takes trillion of yrs to go through one Galaxy, let alone two. He accomplished this is a FEW YRS which means he is either zillions of times the speed of light or he has planet busting power. If he did it planet by planet, that would make him the fastest being in comics. Choose or again use common sense.

Originally posted by carver9
This is where we need to use the brain. It said he destroyed countless planet and entire GALAXIES (MORE THAN ONE...hell, more than two as well) in a few yrs. The speed of light takes trillion of yrs to go through one Galaxy, let alone two. He accomplished this is a FEW YRS which means he is either zillions of times the speed of light or he has planet busting power. If he did it planet by planet, that would make him the fastest being in comics. Choose or again use common sense.

I meant to say "he has Galaxy busting power".

Every other scan says hundreds of planets. Raw scans with a reliable translator is needed.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Every other scan says hundreds of planets. Raw scans with a reliable translator is needed.

Or you can accept what DBZ is clearly trying to throw at you. All of this was said about Buu.

"This battle determines the fate of the UNIVERSE". I can't think of a single herald that would determining factor of a freaking universe. That abstract level crap.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247528

If we don't do anything...everything in the UNIVERSE will be killed.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247526


"Then the universe will be destroyed".

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247527

Originally posted by carver9
When did his master show teleportation?

are you really comparing Kid Buu blast to an average planet busting attack?

I didn't read the manga so I don't know, but the dbz wiki has Bibidi stated as being able to teleport and he used to teleport Buu around and let him destroy things. Maybe someone can find a scan showing either the opposite or the case, since that would be the end of the argument.

Originally posted by carver9
This is where we need to use the brain. It said he destroyed countless planet and entire GALAXIES (MORE THAN ONE...hell, more than two as well) in a few yrs. The speed of light takes trillion of yrs to go through one Galaxy, let alone two. He accomplished this is a FEW YRS which means he is either zillions of times the speed of light or he has planet busting power. If he did it planet by planet, that would make him the fastest being in comics. Choose or again use common sense.

The unprovoked insults to my intelligence begin. Two galaxies can be the number of galaxies he destroyed if it is stated to be "galaxies" I find it a bit silly to say he would be the fastest being in comics regardless of if he did it planet by planet or not. This is Kid Buu right? The primal, unrestrained version of Buu that was just all about destruction?

Originally posted by carver9
Or you can accept what DBZ is clearly trying to throw at you. All of this was said about Buu.

"This battle determines the fate of the UNIVERSE". I can't think of a single herald that would determining factor of a freaking universe. That abstract level crap.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247528

If we don't do anything...everything in the UNIVERSE will be killed.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247526


"Then the universe will be destroyed".

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247527

The Z fighters are the only known fighters in the DBZU. They are the strongest and if they die then the rest of the universe is Buu's plaything. I believe they were saying that if they died then no one would be around or able to stop Buu.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I didn't read the manga so I don't know, but the dbz wiki has Bibidi stated as being able to teleport and he used to teleport Buu around and let him destroy things. Maybe someone can find a scan showing either the opposite or the case, since that would be the end of the argument.

Link to the wiki?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
The Z fighters are the only known fighters in the DBZU. They are the strongest and if they die then the rest of the universe is Buu's plaything. I believe they were saying that if they died then no one would be around or able to stop Buu.

The universe will be destroyed? What does that mean to you?

Everything in the universe will be killed? What does that mean to you?

I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to understand why you are declining evidence? Making up stuff.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
The unprovoked insults to my intelligence begin. Two galaxies can be the number of galaxies he destroyed if it is stated to be "galaxies" I find it a bit silly to say he would be the fastest being in comics regardless of if he did it planet by planet or not. This is Kid Buu right? The primal, unrestrained version of Buu that was just all about destruction?

In a few yrs, what character can destroy EVERYTHING in multiples of Galaxies? First thing that seems near impossible and second thing is, if this was achieved, no one minus Buu and higher can accomplish this.

Also, the Z fighters are not the only known fighters in the Universe.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Link to the wiki? Looking farther into it, he only appears in the anime. Is he canon to the manga, or did babidi make Buu in the manga?

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bibidi

Originally posted by carver9
In a few yrs, what character can destroy EVERYTHING in multiples of Galaxies? First thing that seems near impossible and second thing is, if this was achieved, no one minus Buu and higher can accomplish this.
If done via teleportation it is very possible depending on the number of planets

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
If done via teleportation it is very possible depending on the number of planets

So you're telling me Babidi winked Buu out at light speeds for yrs destroying moon, stars, and planets (remember, entire Galaxies were destroyed)? Is this what you are telling me? Then, it wasn't stated that Babidi AND Buu destroyed Galaxies, it said Buu by himself. Why are you all trying so hard? Is DBZ truly this hated? You all are obviously trying to put caps on extremely powerful characters.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Looking farther into it, he only appears in the anime. Is he canon to the manga, or did babidi make Buu in the manga?

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Bibidi

Wiki is fan made. Wiki also states that Goku can destroy a Universe. It states Cell can destroy a solar system and it even states that King Piccolo can lay waste to a planet. Can I use that for DBZ characters as well? Let me know.

how else would kid buu get to the kai worlds. He was obviously teleported there by bibidi and they had spaceships that were pretty fast also

Originally posted by carver9
Wiki is fan made. Wiki also states that Goku can destroy a Universe. It states Cell can destroy a solar system and it even states that King Piccolo can lay waste to a planet. Can I use that for DBZ characters as well? Let me know. Calm down. I even asked in my initial post for someone to find scan showing it. You are soo quick to tie dbz power levels to your own personal pride that you are flipping out over nothing. I even asked if he was canon to the manga because I don't know.

But it makes more sense both with what we see in person and with the time frame for him to be teleporting, over shooting one blast that took years to destroy things it's just not the style that Toriyma does. Me offering a different explanation of views to an event not actually shown doesn't mean I hate the series, because too me power level =/= quality otherwise I would only read stories about reality warpers who blink out all of existence, but I don't.

Originally posted by yungz22
how else would kid buu get to the kai worlds. He was obviously teleported there by bibidi and they had spaceships that were pretty fast also

That's during the end. He learned IT by watching Goku. He did not know how to teleport during the time he was with his master. Now during that instance when he was traveling to the ki planets, yes, he knew how to teleport but that wasn't during the time multiple Galaxies was destroyed.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Calm down. I even asked in my initial post for someone to find scan showing it. You are soo quick to tie dbz power levels to your own personal pride that you are flipping out over nothing. I even asked if he was canon to the manga because I don't know.

But it makes more sense both with what we see in person and with the time frame for him to be teleporting, over shooting one blast that took years to destroy things it's just not the style that Toriyma does. Me offering a different explanation of views to an event not actually shown doesn't mean I hate the series, because too me power level =/= quality otherwise I would only read stories about reality warpers who blink out all of existence, but I don't.


But it doesn't make sense because you are suggesting that Babidi teleported Buu to every planet, star, and moon (along with Black holes, etc) in multiples of Galaxies. Does that truly make sense to you? Then, that would still put Buu reflexes over light speed and Babidi perception above light speed as well.

Originally posted by carver9
But it doesn't make sense because you are suggesting that Babidi teleported Buu to every planet, star, and moon (along with Black holes, etc) in multiples of Galaxies. Does that truly make sense to you? Then, that would still put Buu reflexes over light speed and Babidi perception above light speed as well.

And it doesn't make sense that he did one blast and did it either. Kid buu is a violent monster with no concern for what he destroys, if he could casually blow up galaxies he would have when he was brought back. To me it makes more sense given what we have seen from him directly to have been teleported around destroying these places, what that means to is up to your interpretation. But I think DBZ was pretty good at keeping the character's consistent with their actions. Cell didn't try to blow up earth until he lost because he is vain and wanted to show his might, Buu would have just destroyed everything if he could have instead of just the one.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
And it doesn't make sense that he did one blast and did it either. Kid buu is a violent monster with no concern for what he destroys, if he could casually blow up galaxies he would have when he was brought back. To me it makes more sense given what we have seen from him directly to have been teleported around destroying these places, what that means to is up to your interpretation. But I think DBZ was pretty good at keeping the character's consistent with their actions. Cell didn't try to blow up earth until he lost because he is vain and wanted to show his might, Buu would have just destroyed everything if he could have instead of just the one.

So we are in agreement that Buu reflexes is 100s if not 1000s of times faster than the speed of light?

Originally posted by carver9
So we are in agreement that Buu reflexes is 100s if not 1000s of times faster than the speed of light?

I think he teleported. You'll think what you want like always.

Originally posted by carver9
That's during the end. He learned IT by watching Goku. He did not know how to teleport during the time he was with his master. Now during that instance when he was traveling to the ki planets, yes, he knew how to teleport but that wasn't during the time multiple Galaxies was destroyed.

they used ftl spaceships to travel around as you can see vegeta goku and gohan were in that ship around the time babidi took over vegeta

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I think he teleported. You'll think what you want like always.

Even if he teleported, they would have to stop, look at the planet, lift his arm, blast, and move to the next planer near instantly. They can't stop and talk along with thinking. Imagine how fast they would have to teleport to destroy everything multiples of Galaxies. Then they would have to blow up EVERYTHING in that Galaxy while perceiving it. Just because you have teleportation doesn't mean you have light speed reaction.

Originally posted by yungz22
they used ftl spaceships to travel around as you can see vegeta goku and gohan were in that ship around the time babidi took over vegeta

Lol...so Babidi and Buu got in a space ship, opened the door, blast a planet, moved to the next planet and moon, destroyed that, flew to the stars, destroyed those. They did all of this to multiples of Galaxies in a few yrs? Can you honestly see kid buu in a space ship sitting down...waiting. then that would still put his reflexes along with the door that is opening consistently trillions of time above light speed. Lol...These arguments you all are making is hilarious.

Originally posted by carver9
Even if he teleported, they would have to stop, look at the planet, lift his arm, blast, and move to the next planer near instantly. They can't stop and talk along with thinking. Imagine how fast they would have to teleport to destroy everything multiples of Galaxies. Then they would have to blow up EVERYTHING in that Galaxy while perceiving it. Just because you have teleportation doesn't mean you have light speed reaction.

So you think kid buu shot one blast that took years to expand big enough to destroy galaxies?

Originally posted by carver9
Even if he teleported, they would have to stop, look at the planet, lift his arm, blast, and move to the next planer near instantly. They can't stop and talk along with thinking. Imagine how fast they would have to teleport to destroy everything multiples of Galaxies. Then they would have to blow up EVERYTHING in that Galaxy while perceiving it. Just because you have teleportation doesn't mean you have light speed reaction.
He very would could still be pretty fast, but there are ways to destroy things especially as we don't know what all is in these galaxies (aren't the kai worlds in some weird galaxies?) that aren't some infinite times faster than light you want to think. Just because i don't think it's as impressive as you do doesn't mean I think kid buu sucks.

Originally posted by chasedown
So you think kid buu shot one blast that took years to expand big enough to destroy galaxies?

I think he destroyed these Galaxies in large chunks. It's impossible to single out everything in a Galaxy and destroy it one at a time. Especially with all the known substance in a Galaxy. Then it said Galaxies. So there's no telling how many he destroyed. He could ha e destroyed 12 Galaxies which could be the reason it took so long.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
He very would could still be pretty fast, but there are ways to destroy things especially as we don't know what all is in these galaxies (aren't the kai worlds in some weird galaxies?) that aren't some infinite times faster than light you want to think. Just because i don't think it's as impressive as you do doesn't mean I think kid buu sucks.

Somebody save me. I can't believe this.

Originally posted by carver9
I think he destroyed these Galaxies in large chunks. It's impossible to single out everything in a Galaxy and destroy it one at a time. Especially with all the known substance in a Galaxy. Then it said Galaxies. So there's no telling how many he destroyed. He could ha e destroyed 12 Galaxies which could be the reason it took so long.


he could have destroyed only two we dont know. and we dont know how many years it took. it couyld have took him like 4 or 5 years to destroy just one galaxy we just dont know. Everything is speculation so theres no definite answer.

Originally posted by yungz22
he could have destroyed only two we dont know. and we dont know how many years it took. it couyld have took him like 4 or 5 years to destroy just one galaxy we just dont know. Everything is speculation so theres no definite answer.

A few isn't 4 or 5. Even if it took four or 5 years to destroy a few Galaxies...that would still put him within the Sky father range.

Originally posted by carver9
A few isn't 4 or 5. Even if it took four or 5 years to destroy a few Galaxies...that would still put him within the Sky father range.

we dont know the exact numbers so we cant calculate anything like that accuratley

Originally posted by carver9
Somebody save me. I can't believe this.
Except no, there are ways to destroy multiple planets that are faster than one by one. And more importantly DBZ verse clearly has a different cosmos than our own. Aren't there only four galaxies in the primary Verse each ran by a different Kai?

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So either he can destroy galaxies, or he can move around 700 billion times faster than light speed, give or take.

Generally in DBZ though, when someone says they can or someone else can destroy something, they will say if they mean over time. Either way, it lines up with what we've seen in cannon, and even in movies, meaning it's pretty legit, and you can't disprove it.

So stop trying.

Oh, I get it. I understand your point.


No matter what, this guy has made a solid point.


Here is why:

Either the attacks blow up faster than light (they blast fronts propagate faster than light because each galaxy is going to be in the range of 100,000 light years across and these multiple-galaxy destructions are supposed to have happened over just a few years) OR he is faster than light in his ability to fly and blow stuff up.


Either way, multiple galaxies being destroyed in a few years indicates something is far far faster than light...either the blasts or the ability to fly around.


Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
So it takes him a few years to destroy galaxies with one attack? He must be slow as molasses then.

Well, gauging the distance between galaxies, the size of galaxies themselves, and the speed of light...we are talking about an absurdly faster blast. I cannot even begin to estimate how fast that would be. SSSG says billions of times faster than light. Maybe?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Oh, I get it. I understand your point.


No matter what, this guy has made a solid point.


Here is why:

Either the attacks blow up faster than light (they blast fronts propagate faster than light because each galaxy is going to be in the range of 100,000 light years across and these multiple-galaxy destructions are supposed to have happened over just a few years) OR he is faster than light in his ability to fly and blow stuff up.


Either way, multiple galaxies being destroyed in a few years indicates something is far far faster than light...either the blasts or the ability to fly around.




Well, gauging the distance between galaxies, the size of galaxies themselves, and the speed of light...we are talking about an absurdly faster blast. I cannot even begin to estimate how fast that would be. SSSG says billions of times faster than light. Maybe?

Oh yes. But these feats are void because stronger characters have not performed these feats.

Because Vegito and so on would really want to destroy the galaxy, but they obviously can't which is why they didn't do it.

LOGIC.

Originally posted by carver9
This is Gohan from the movie 'Fusion Reborn'. He one punched killed Frieza. Think real hard on this before answering.
Strong enough to kill Frieza in one punch.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Except no, there are ways to destroy multiple planets that are faster than one by one. And more importantly DBZ verse clearly has a different cosmos than our own. Aren't there only four galaxies in the primary Verse each ran by a different Kai?

Which would make Buu power greater than planetary. Either way this goes, Buu wins. He is either far faster than light or he is a Galaxy buster.

Where was it stated that DBZ verse is different than ours. Hell, it can't be that different. It took Goku some time to get to planet Namek and it was in the same Galaxy...light yrs away.

its all speculation and all lightspeed feats in dbz contradict themselves with non ls feats

Originally posted by carver9
Or you can accept what DBZ is clearly trying to throw at you. All of this was said about Buu.

"This battle determines the fate of the UNIVERSE". I can't think of a single herald that would determining factor of a freaking universe. That abstract level crap.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247528

If we don't do anything...everything in the UNIVERSE will be killed.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247526


"Then the universe will be destroyed".

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/buu/247527
Going to lose train of thought, so just gonna ask ans answer my own questions;

Q- Did Buu destroy the universe on his first rampage?
A- No, he destroyed planets, galaxies, whatever another translator says. If Buu could have, he would have.

Q- Then what other explanation could there be for the quotes of universal destruction come from if not a one-shot blast?
A- Simple, he just does it gradually in the same way he was doing so the first time. Keep in mind that the quote giver (I assume Kai, scans didn't show up) considered Buu the strongest being in the universe save the three special cases that showed up (Gohan, Vegito, final battle). Now let's say that Buu came out victorious. What happens next? Buu would go around destroying every planet all over again which would eventually be the end of all life as there would be nothing to stop him.


Q- I'm still not convinced. Can you give me an in-verse example?
A- How about we look at King Piccolo, and before it comes up this example goes with him not being able to planet bust. He was tied strongest on Earth along with Goku. Assuming Goku lost, who would be there to stop him? No one. Assuming Piccolo wanted to go around blowing up city sized blasts until the planet looks razed, is that planet busting? No. Is all life on Earth practically 'killed'? Yes.



The lines there talk about this; An eventual destruction in the same manner he was going at it before.

What this doesn't cover is that the raw scan is needed to see if galaxies or just planets was mentioned.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Going to lose train of thought, so just gonna ask ans answer my own questions;

Q- Did Buu destroy the universe on his first rampage?
A- No, he destroyed planets, galaxies, whatever another translator says. If Buu could have, he would have.

Q- Then what other explanation could there be for the quotes of universal destruction come from if not a one-shot blast?
A- Simple, he just does it gradually in the same way he was doing so the first time. Keep in mind that the quote giver (I assume Kai, scans didn't show up) considered Buu the strongest being in the universe save the three special cases that showed up (Gohan, Vegito, final battle). Now let's say that Buu came out victorious. What happens next? Buu would go around destroying every planet all over again which would eventually be the end of all life as there would be nothing to stop him.


Q- I'm still not convinced. Can you give me an in-verse example?
A- How about we look at King Piccolo, and before it comes up this example goes with him not being able to planet bust. He was tied strongest on Earth along with Goku. Assuming Goku lost, who would be there to stop him? No one. Assuming Piccolo wanted to go around blowing up city sized blasts until the planet looks razed, is that planet busting? No. Is all life on Earth practically 'killed'? Yes.



The lines there talk about this; An eventual destruction in the same manner he was going at it before.

What this doesn't cover is that the raw scan is needed to see if galaxies or just planets was mentioned.

Agreed, Buu is not a Universe Buster. But he is a Universe killer.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Going to lose train of thought, so just gonna ask ans answer my own questions;

Q- Did Buu destroy the universe on his first rampage?
A- No, he destroyed planets, galaxies, whatever another translator says. If Buu could have, he would have.

Q- Then what other explanation could there be for the quotes of universal destruction come from if not a one-shot blast?
A- Simple, he just does it gradually in the same way he was doing so the first time. Keep in mind that the quote giver (I assume Kai, scans didn't show up) considered Buu the strongest being in the universe save the three special cases that showed up (Gohan, Vegito, final battle). Now let's say that Buu came out victorious. What happens next? Buu would go around destroying every planet all over again which would eventually be the end of all life as there would be nothing to stop him.


Q- I'm still not convinced. Can you give me an in-verse example?
A- How about we look at King Piccolo, and before it comes up this example goes with him not being able to planet bust. He was tied strongest on Earth along with Goku. Assuming Goku lost, who would be there to stop him? No one. Assuming Piccolo wanted to go around blowing up city sized blasts until the planet looks razed, is that planet busting? No. Is all life on Earth practically 'killed'? Yes.



The lines there talk about this; An eventual destruction in the same manner he was going at it before.

What this doesn't cover is that the raw scan is needed to see if galaxies or just planets was mentioned.

yea im not sure he was blowin up galaxies more so he was probably going around killing people from those different planets.
the planets are still being destroyed just not in a literal sense.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Going to lose train of thought, so just gonna ask ans answer my own questions;

Q- Did Buu destroy the universe on his first rampage?
A- No, he destroyed planets, galaxies, whatever another translator says. If Buu could have, he would have.

Q- Then what other explanation could there be for the quotes of universal destruction come from if not a one-shot blast?
A- Simple, he just does it gradually in the same way he was doing so the first time. Keep in mind that the quote giver (I assume Kai, scans didn't show up) considered Buu the strongest being in the universe save the three special cases that showed up (Gohan, Vegito, final battle). Now let's say that Buu came out victorious. What happens next? Buu would go around destroying every planet all over again which would eventually be the end of all life as there would be nothing to stop him.


Q- I'm still not convinced. Can you give me an in-verse example?
A- How about we look at King Piccolo, and before it comes up this example goes with him not being able to planet bust. He was tied strongest on Earth along with Goku. Assuming Goku lost, who would be there to stop him? No one. Assuming Piccolo wanted to go around blowing up city sized blasts until the planet looks razed, is that planet busting? No. Is all life on Earth practically 'killed'? Yes.



The lines there talk about this; An eventual destruction in the same manner he was going at it before.

What this doesn't cover is that the raw scan is needed to see if galaxies or just planets was mentioned.

Lol...destroying planets doesn't make you a Universal threat. Surfer, Hulk, Terrax are not universal beings even though they laid waste to a planet before. Buu on multiples of occasions was being claimed as a Universal being. Please don't let me make a thread out of this because I'm pretty sure everyone would disagree with you (as long as they don't know it is about DBZ). Them stating that Buu would DESTROY the universe or KILL the Universe means exactly what it says.

Lol...Buu blowing up a planet doesn't mean he can't blow up much more. Hell, his first small casual blast was a planet buster...and again, that was a casual blast. His last blast was so powerful that it didn't even leave a spek of dirt 2 hen earth was destroyed.

It was explained why Buu didn't lay waste to everything minus the planets. He was looking for Goku and Vegeta. Going planet to planet.

Overall, your logic fails. Someone being a planet buster doesn't make them a Universal threat (lol). There isn't a single being that could destroy every planet/stars in the Universe, no matter how fast they are.

Originally posted by yungz22
its all speculation and all lightspeed feats in dbz contradict themselves with non ls feats

It really doesn't. You all are just dissecting every DBZ showing a Lil to hard. Remember, all manga and comics have low showings.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...destroying planets doesn't make you a Universal threat. Surfer, Hulk, Terrax are not universal beings even though they laid waste to a planet before. Buu on multiples of occasions was being claimed as a Universal being. Please don't let me make a thread out of this because I'm pretty sure everyone would disagree with you (as long as they don't know it is about DBZ). Them stating that Buu would DESTROY the universe or KILL the Universe means exactly what it says.

Lol...Buu blowing up a planet doesn't mean he can't blow up much more. Hell, his first small casual blast was a planet buster...and again, that was a casual blast. His last blast was so powerful that it didn't even leave a spek of dirt 2 hen earth was destroyed.

It was explained why Buu didn't lay waste to everything minus the planets. He was looking for Goku and Vegeta. Going planet to planet.

Overall, your logic fails. Someone being a planet buster doesn't make them a Universal threat (lol). There isn't a single being that could destroy every planet/stars in the Universe, no matter how fast they are.

Dude, he's a universe destroyer in that he will fly around real fast, with energy blasts that will destroy a galaxy at a time, and considering there are only 4 (3 if you count that Broly destroyed one but Non-Canon) galaxies in DBZ, four shots from Kid Buu would destroy the Universe. We have never seen a Universe 'busting' feat in DBZ (bar dimension collapsing) and we never will because no one knows how big a universe is.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Dude, he's a universe destroyer in that he will fly around real fast, with energy blasts that will destroy a galaxy at a time, and considering there are only 4 (3 if you count that Broly destroyed one but Non-Canon) galaxies in DBZ, four shots from Kid Buu would destroy the Universe. We have never seen a Universe 'busting' feat in DBZ (bar dimension collapsing) and we never will because no one knows how big a universe is.

Where was it stated that there are only 4 Galaxies? Also, I never said Buu could destroy a universe in a single attack, what I said was "he is a universal threat" and he IS a Universal threat and destroying PLANETS (lol) doesn't make someone a universal threat as stated multiples of times about Buu, frieza, etc...

Planet busting is child's play to DBZ characters. Hell, during the weakest of times, people with power levels in the 100s was capable of casually destroying moons. Anyone that thinks any DBZ character can't destroy anything other than a planet is half crazy, especially when their powers reached the millions. Also, lol at DBZ fighters not being able to withstand planetary power. Let me make this simple.

Roshi was a moon buster. Raditz can stand in one spot and let Roshi unleash on him and he wouldn't suffer a scratch. Let's move on. Vegeta during the Saiyan saga was a planet buster. Frieza stood in one spot and allowed a more powerful Vegeta to unleash on him without a scratch. The low balling of DBZ is hilarious at best. The concept is simple but the law balling is hilarious. Anything high of power level 300 and above can tank moon busting power. Planetary power don't mean CRAP after the Saiyan saga.

Planetary power doesn't mean crap but they died from planetary destroying blasts? If Buu was a galaxy buster then why didn't he bust a galaxy when he got mad and blew up the Earth? Kid Buu was relentless, merciless and had no restrain so why didn't he destroy the entire galaxy? Why was Goku afraid of the planet exploding on Namek if he can tank planet busting attacks? Why did Goku die when Cell used a planet busting attack? Why did the Z fighters die when Buu used a planet busting attack? Were those attacks that I mentioned below or above planet busting power?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Planetary power doesn't mean crap but they died from planetary destroying blasts? If Buu was a galaxy buster then why didn't he bust a galaxy when he got mad and blew up the Earth? Kid Buu was relentless, merciless and had no restrain so why didn't he destroy the entire galaxy? Why was Goku afraid of the planet exploding on Namek if he can tank planet busting attacks? Why did Goku die when Cell used a planet busting attack? Why did the Z fighters die when Buu used a planet busting attack? Were those attacks that I mentioned below or above planet busting power?


hmmm good points

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Planetary power doesn't mean crap but they died from planetary destroying blasts? If Buu was a galaxy buster then why didn't he bust a galaxy when he got mad and blew up the Earth? Kid Buu was relentless, merciless and had no restrain so why didn't he destroy the entire galaxy? Why was Goku afraid of the planet exploding on Namek if he can tank planet busting attacks? Why did Goku die when Cell used a planet busting attack? Why did the Z fighters die when Buu used a planet busting attack? Were those attacks that I mentioned below or above planet busting power?


All of those questions can be answered wit the following phrase:


Plot Induced Stupidity


That's ALWAYS the answer for inconsistencies in Dragonball.

Originally posted by carver9
Where was it stated that there are only 4 Galaxies?

I am certain I remember King Kai saying this.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Why did the Z fighters die when Buu used a planet busting attack?

As far as this goes, Gohan and crew were KO'd when the planet blew. They can't survive in space so being unconscious in space = death.

Originally posted by juggerman
As far as this goes, Gohan and crew were KO'd when the planet blew. They can't survive in space so being unconscious in space = death.

Did we see their bodies in space or anything that showed they survived the initial blast to only suffocate in space?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Did we see their bodies in space or anything that showed they survived the initial blast to only suffocate in space?

Can we assume Kid Buu's planet busting attacks are strong enough to obliterate the Z-Fighters as well? Because it is Kid Buu.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Can we assume Kid Buu's planet busting attacks are strong enough to obliterate the Z-Fighters as well? Because it is Kid Buu.

Only if we go by that the Z-Fighters aren't more durable than planet busting attacks.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Only if we go by that the Z-Fighters aren't more durable than planet busting attacks.

Trunks withstood a planet busting attack as a standard Super Saiyan. So I can't agree.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Trunks withstood a planet busting attack as a standard Super Saiyan. So I can't agree.

That attack didnt even blow up the planet when it exploded so idk if it was a planet buster

Originally posted by chasedown
That attack didnt even blow up the planet when it exploded so idk if it was a planet buster

It is also an anime-only feat so it is not canon to the manga.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is also an anime-only feat so it is not canon to the manga.

Strange because that is in the Manga...

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is also an anime-only feat so it is not canon to the manga.

Oh sorry. Just read through again online. Apparently it didn't my memory does not serve me well.

Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Oh sorry. Just read through again online. Apparently it didn't my memory does not serve me well.

It's all gravy, mang.

But, it is a delightful moment when being wrong about something actually strengthens your overall point. It is pretty much the only way I like being wrong.

Another thing supposedly cell's kamehameha could blow up the entire solar system. Gohan stopped that yet both goku and vegeta couldnt stop kid buu's planet busting attack.......

Damn you dbz and your inconsistency

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Planetary power doesn't mean crap but they died from planetary destroying blasts? If Buu was a galaxy buster then why didn't he bust a galaxy when he got mad and blew up the Earth? Kid Buu was relentless, merciless and had no restrain so why didn't he destroy the entire galaxy? Why was Goku afraid of the planet exploding on Namek if he can tank planet busting attacks? Why did Goku die when Cell used a planet busting attack? Why did the Z fighters die when Buu used a planet busting attack? Were those attacks that I mentioned below or above planet busting power?

This post is so contradicting, it's crazy. Doomsday was as strong as Superman. Why didn't Doomsday lay waste to the city/planet since he is a mindless brute? Konvikt is a mindless brute, why didn't he lay waste to earth after defeating the the JLA. Amazo is mindless and is in possession of the entire JLA power source. Why didn't he lay way to the city or the earth? This type of argument is a lame way to go tbh and it is easily countered. I can make this clear though. It was stated that he was looking for Goku and Vegeta, that was the reason he went planet to planet and that is why Goku called him to them (by raising their power levels) because they knew he was looking for them.

Now if you want me to sit here and name all of the mindless people that could have done more damage, then I don't mind but you might need to put a Lil more thought into your arguments.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Only if we go by that the Z-Fighters aren't more durable than planet busting attacks.

Buu first small ki blast was a planet buster. His other attack was so much more. If you are basing things off of collateral damage. Superman died from a punch that didn't even destroy the city they were fighting in. Thor died from a blast that didn't even level the mountain they were fighting on.

Originally posted by chasedown
Another thing supposedly cell's kamehameha could blow up the entire solar system. Gohan stopped that yet both goku and vegeta couldnt stop kid buu's planet busting attack.......

Damn you dbz and your inconsistency

Originally posted by chasedown


Because Buu attack was more powerful than Cell solar system destroying blast. When are you all going to stop basing things off of collateral damage? That's not what DBZ is about. Which blast is more powerful, Nappa up finger blast that destroyed a continent and was seen on the outskirts of space or Frieza finger blast that killed Vegeta?

Originally posted by carver9
Because Buu attack was more powerful than Cell solar system destroying blast. When are you all going to stop basing things off of collateral damage? That's not what DBZ is about. Which blast is more powerful, Nappa up finger blast that destroyed a continent and was seen on the outskirts of space or Frieza finger blast that killed Vegeta?

the frieza death beam is a piercing attack like the special beam canon it wasnt meant to destroy planets



nice try but the earth being destroyed 10 times over is not bigger than our solar system. Jupiter alone is over 100 times the earth's size.

and our solar system has eight planets and more dwarf planets and moons

Originally posted by chasedown
the frieza death beam is a piercing attack like the special beam canon it wasnt meant to destroy planets



nice try but the earth being destroyed 10 times over is not bigger than our solar system. Jupiter alone is over 100 times the earth's size.

and our solar system has eight planets and more dwarf planets and moons

The earth being destroyed 10 times over is an anime filler.

I brought up the death beam because this proves all DBZ attacks are controlled energy, all of them are not meant to cause the destruction you are trying to claim. Example...teen Goku survived a nuclear explosion without a scratch. Piccolo later on shot him with a blast that went clean through his chest. DBZ isn't based entirely on collateral damage because Cell has damaged Vegeta with far less destructive blast than continent level and Vegeta TANKED Nappa blast. Goku would tank Roshi moon busting attack and Piccolo moon busting attack during the Saiyan saga, unless you think Roshi and that version of Piccolo could kill Namek Saga Goku (lol).

Answer this. Frieza tanked a planet exploding on him. Does Goku have to hit Frieza with a planetary plus blast to kill him (a blast that will destroy the planet afterwards)? Remember, even though Frieza, a weaker Frieza tanked planetary power, he was turned to dust by Trunks with a casual blast that didn't even wreck the mountains behind him. I'll be waiting for your answer.

Originally posted by carver9
The earth being destroyed 10 times over is an anime filler.

I brought up the death beam because this proves all DBZ attacks are controlled energy, all of them are not meant to cause the destruction you are trying to claim. Example...teen Goku survived a nuclear explosion without a scratch. Piccolo later on shot him with a blast that went clean through his chest. DBZ isn't based entirely on collateral damage because Cell has damaged Vegeta with far less destructive blast than continent level and Vegeta TANKED Nappa blast. Goku would tank Roshi moon busting attack and Piccolo moon busting attack during the Saiyan saga, unless you think Roshi and that version of Piccolo could kill Namek Saga Goku (lol).

Answer this. Frieza tanked a planet exploding on him. Does Goku have to hit Frieza with a planetary plus blast to kill him (a blast that will destroy the planet afterwards)? Remember, even though Frieza, a weaker Frieza tanked planetary power, he was turned to dust by Trunks with a casual blast that didn't even wreck the mountains behind him. I'll be waiting for your answer.

no one ever stated that the death beam could destroy the planet.

when characters state thing like this blast has enough power to destroy the whole solar system. that means its stronger than the blast that characters say can blow up a planet. point blank period


"this blast has enough power to destroy a solar system">" that blast had enough power to blow up the planet" theres no way around it cell shot off a stronger blast than kid buu did. that doesnt mean however that kid buu couldnt gather enough power to destroy a solar system because hes stronger than cell.

my point is that if gohan can stop a solar system buster why cant goku and vegeta together fend off a planet buster

Also want to throw out that if you accept the anime filler where it was stated that Buu blast would destroy Earth 10 times over, that blast would basically wipe out every planet in our solar system. Then, Goku said that during the beginning when Buu was charging the attack up..by the end of it, that blast was at least 5 times bigger.

Originally posted by chasedown
no one ever stated that the death beam could destroy the planet.

when characters state thing like this blast has enough power to destroy the whole solar system. that means its stronger than the blast that characters say can blow up a planet. point blank period


"this blast has enough power to destroy a solar system">" that blast had enough power to blow up the planet" theres no way around it cell shot off a stronger blast than kid buu did. that doesnt mean however that kid buu couldnt gather enough power to destroy a solar system because hes stronger than cell.

my point is that if gohan can stop a solar system buster why cant goku and vegeta together fend off a planet buster

No one said you did but you are using collateral damage to support your your argument. Where was it stated that Buu blast was only planetary in power? Again, his first casual blast was planetary, his second blast>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>his first blast.

Again, if this is a collateral damage debate regarding DBZ. Do you think Roshi could kill Namekian saga Goku with his moon busting attack. This question is simple. Do you think Saiyan saga Piccolo could kill Saiyan Saga Vegeta with his casual moon busting attack. Do you think Saiyan Saga Vegeta can kill Super Saiyan Goku with his planet busting power?

Even though Cell blast had enough power to destroy a solar system, that doesn't mean his attacks are more powerful than a being that is far more powerful than him. Buu can create a casual blast that wouldn't ev3n destroy a building that is more powerful than anything Cell could dream about conjuring.

Originally posted by carver9
Also want to throw out that if you accept the anime filler where it was stated that Buu blast would destroy Earth 10 times over, that blast would basically wipe out every planet in our solar system. Then, Goku said that during the beginning when Buu was charging the attack up..by the end of it, that blast was at least 5 times bigger.


actually your wrong about that jupiter by it self is more than 100 times larger than the earth. Its actually over 300 times earth size in mass

the earth getting destroyed 10 times over doesnt = jupiter and all the other planets that are much greater in mass.


our solar system is much greater than 10 earths.

http://http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/jupitercomparedearth.jpg


http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/jupitercomparedearth.jpg

Originally posted by chasedown
actually your wrong about that jupiter by it self is more than 100 times larger than the earth. Its actually over 300 times earth size in mass

the earth getting destroyed 10 times over doesnt = jupiter and all the other planets that are much greater in mass.


our solar system is much greater than 10 earths.

http://http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/jupitercomparedearth.jpg


http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/jupitercomparedearth.jpg

I agree even though it was anime filler. This still doesn't help your argument. Collateral damage doesn't mean a thing in DBZ...hell, even during regular dragonball it didn't mean anything. Stop basing your argument on collateral damage.

its not a planet buster if the planet isnt busted thats the whole point of it being called a planet BUSTER..........my point anyway was to point out the inconsistency of gohan stopping a solar system buster and goku and vegeta failing to stop an attack that blew up the planet.


i also want to point these random information frieza was mortally wounded by a planet busting attack, goku died from a planet busting attack and gohan,piccolo,goten, and trunks kid buu was blown to bits by a planet busting attack. they are susceptible to planet exploding attacks.

Originally posted by chasedown
its not a planet buster if the planet isnt busted thats the whole point of it being called a planet BUSTER..........my point anyway was to point out the inconsistency of gohan stopping a solar system buster and goku and vegeta failing to stop an attack that blew up the planet.


i also want to point these random information frieza was mortally wounded by a planet busting attack, goku died from a planet busting attack and gohan,piccolo,goten, and trunks kid buu was blown to bits by a planet busting attack. they are susceptible to planet exploding attacks.

You just don't get it do you? For some strange reason you are not comprehending this. Frieza survived the planet destruction and it wasn't the planet destruction that took him out. It was Goku finally blast that messed him up. Trunks killed a more powerful Frieza casually...The same frieza that withstood a planet destroying attack but yet Goku tanked everything frieza threw at him with his index finger. Are you not grasping this? Do you not understand this?

A planet explosion didn't kill Goku, Cell power did.

The planet explosion didn't kill Gohan, Picollo, and Goten, Buu power did. Do I have to explain what a planet explosion is? If Buu didn't have a thing to do with the planets destruction, if Gohan and the crew wasn't hit by Buu's energy and it exploded under its own power, THEN you can make that claim. The planet being destroyed as a side affect isn't an indication that it takes planet busting power to take out a Z fighter.

Now again, can Saiyan Saga Vegeta planet destroying final blast kill Namekian Goku or Super Saiyan Goku? Yes or no? This is a simple question that you are clearly making difficult.

Stop avoiding my question and stop mixing up DBZ characters getting killed by their villains power versus the planet destruction. No Z fighter has died from a planet exploding know them.

Originally posted by carver9
You just don't get it do you? For some strange reason you are not comprehending this. Frieza survived the planet destruction and it wasn't the planet destruction that took him out. It was Goku finally blast that messed him up. Trunks killed a more powerful Frieza casually...The same frieza that withstood a planet destroying attack but yet Goku tanked everything frieza threw at him with his index finger. Are you not grasping this? Do you not understand this?

A planet explosion didn't kill Goku, Cell power did.

The planet explosion didn't kill Gohan, Picollo, and Goten, Buu power did. Do I have to explain what a planet explosion is? If Buu didn't have a thing to do with the planets destruction, if Gohan and the crew wasn't hit by Buu's energy and it exploded under its own power, THEN you can make that claim. The planet being destroyed as a side affect isn't an indication that it takes planet busting power to take out a Z fighter.

Now again, can Saiyan Saga Vegeta planet destroying final blast kill Namekian Goku or Super Saiyan Goku? Yes or no? This is a simple question that you are clearly making difficult.

Stop avoiding my question and stop mixing up DBZ characters getting killed by their villains power versus the planet destruction. No Z fighter has died from a planet exploding know them.

ITS ALL INCONSISTANT CRAP


what do you classify kid buu's attack as?

Originally posted by chasedown
ITS ALL INCONSISTANT CRAP


what do you classify kid buu's attack as?

What's inconsistent? Give examples.

More powerful than Cell attack.

Carver is making some very decent points DBZ characters can be ****ing ridiculous.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Carver is making some very decent points DBZ characters can be ****ing ridiculous.

Lol theres no way he can convince me that a solar system busting attack is weaker than a planet busting attack..... Its just not gonna work.

Originally posted by chasedown
Lol theres no way he can convince me that a solar system busting attack is weaker than a planet busting attack..... Its just not gonna work.

Glad that you admit that Frieza blast...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz235zUWE_A (start at 9 minutes)

... is more powerful than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmvRJOHMhaw (Start at 18 min and 20 seconds).

Frieza attack did more collateral damage than what both Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3 combined could conjure and they was going all out. So you admit that Frieza blast (that Goku apparently tanked while being in his blast hair state) is less powerful than Goku and Vegeta at Super Saiyan 2 combine due to the destructive nature. I can go on all day with this if I wanted because again, collateral damage doesn't mean a thing in DBZ since Kid Buu can shoot a casual blast that is more powerful than anything that Perfect Cell could dream about ever accomplishing.

Originally posted by chasedown
Lol theres no way he can convince me that a solar system busting attack is weaker than a planet busting attack..... Its just not gonna work.

Do you think this could kill Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZg_fRvqEks

Originally posted by carver9
Do you think this could kill Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZg_fRvqEks



All your doing is proving my point about the inconsistency within dbz


Also final flash wasnt pointed directly at cell because as trunks said he could have destroyed the planet.... And who knows maybe it could have because goku cant regenerate.

Originally posted by chasedown
All your doing is proving my point about the inconsistency within dbz


Also final flash wasnt pointed directly at cell because as trunks said he could have destroyed the planet.... And who knows maybe it could have because goku cant regenerate.

Not seeing the inconsistency. You are basing your argument off of "collateral damage". When you learn that all attacks are not meant to destroy the surrounding area, you'll be able to grasp the concept of DBZ. Until then, I am literally arguing with a brick wall.

Saiyan Saga Vegeta was capable of destroying a planet. Sad thing is, he would NEVER be able to dent Frieza or anyone more powerful than Frieza, shell.

When you realize that it was Cell power that killed Goku. Buu power that killed Gohan, Picollo and the kids, you'll be able to understand everything I am saying.

When you realize the difference between a blast killing someone vs a planet explosion killing someone, holla at me. Cell can kill Goku without destroying a building. Buu can kill Vegeta with a blast without the side affects destroying a mountain.

Answer this. Is it just DBZ that you tend to use the collateral damage argument or is it all characters/anime?

By the way, Super Saiyan 3 Goku would have tanked that attack from Vegeta. Hell, Super Saiyan 2 Goku would have tanked it.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, Super Saiyan 3 Goku would have tanked that attack from Vegeta. Hell, Super Saiyan 2 Goku would have tanked it.

Deflected yes. Tanked idk nobody in dbz has ever just tanked a planet buster.

Originally posted by chasedown
Deflected yes. Tanked idk nobody in dbz has ever just tanked a planet buster.

So you are basically saying Saiyan saga Vegeta can kill Frieza, Buu, Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Vegeta, can kill Super Saiyan 3 Goku? Is this what you are saying?

Originally posted by carver9
So you are basically saying Saiyan saga Vegeta can kill Frieza, Buu, Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Vegeta, can kill Super Saiyan 3 Goku? Is this what you are saying?

No im saying they can all be hurt by planet busters cuz weve seen characters of all power levels take damage or even die from them

Lol and i never said a planet exploding is what killed characters im specifically talking about the attack

Originally posted by chasedown
No im saying they can all be hurt by planet busters cuz weve seen characters of all power levels take damage or even die from them

Lol and i never said a planet exploding is what killed characters im specifically talking about the attack



I honestly can't believe this. Anyone that knows anything about DBZ wouldn't say this. How far does it go. Can Roshi injure Super Saiyan Goku with his moon busting blast. A moon isn't far off from being as big as a planet. If they can be killed by a planet busting attack from Saiyan Saga Vegeta, then a moon busting should injure them beyond belief. Don't you agree with this?

Originally posted by carver9


I honestly can't believe this. Anyone that knows anything about DBZ wouldn't say this. How far does it go. Can Roshi injure Super Saiyan Goku with his moon busting blast. A moon isn't far off from being as big as a planet. If they can be killed by a planet busting attack from Saiyan Saga Vegeta, then a moon busting should injure them beyond belief. Don't you agree with this?


The moon's mass is a little bit more than 1 percent of earths mass, 1/4 earths diameter and 1/50 of earths volume. That is waaaay smaller than earth and very far from being as big as a planet in every aspect. You really need to do some research on our solar system.


Moons are closer to asteroids

Fun fact: If you were to lay the moon flat on earths surface it would be a 1.5 times the size of north america

Originally posted by chasedown
Fun fact: If you were to lay the moon flat on earths surface it would be a 1.5 times the size of north america

When did I say it was the size of our bigger planets but there are small planets that are the size of our moon. Like I've stated before, you are making a complete, let me reword this...you are showing that you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to DBZ if you think Saiyan Saga Vegeta, let alone first form Frieza can hurt Super Saiyan Goku, let alone Super 2 or 3. No one on this site will agree with you. NO ONE.

Originally posted by carver9
When did I say it was the size of our bigger planets but there are small planets that are the size of our moon. Like I've stated before, you are making a complete, let me reword this...you are showing that you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to DBZ if you think Saiyan Saga Vegeta, let alone first form Frieza can hurt Super Saiyan Goku, let alone Super 2 or 3. No one on this site will agree with you. NO ONE.

You said almost and what i stated up above shows that it not at all almost the size of almost earth..

I never said they could beat them i said they cant tank planet busting attacks weve seen characters of all power levels get hurt by them in some way throughout the series. Its actually a quite simple notion.

You putting words in my mouth isnt going to change that fact.

They can deflect planet busting attacks but they cant tank them theres a difference. Example kid buu is stronger than buu but he deflected buus planet buster and we both know if he were to just stand there and take it he would have been hurt maybe even killed, another example cell didnt tank vegetas final flash but cell was def stronger than vegeta at the time.

I meant to say kid buu is stronger than vegeta

Originally posted by chasedown
You said almost and what i stated up above shows that it not at all almost the size of almost earth..

I never said they could beat them i said they cant tank planet busting attacks weve seen characters of all power levels get hurt by them in some way throughout the series. Its actually a quite simple notion.

You putting words in my mouth isnt going to change that fact.

They can deflect planet busting attacks but they cant tank them theres a difference. Example kid buu is stronger than buu but he deflected buus planet buster and we both know if he were to just stand there and take it he would have been hurt maybe even killed, another example cell didnt tank vegetas final flash but cell was def stronger than vegeta at the time.

Goku during the Saiyan Saga deflected a planet busting attack against Vegeta. Vegeta deflected Buu planet busting attack. Piccolo deflected Frieza planet busting attack. We are talking about DBZ you know. Seems like you know very little about the manga my friend.

I never said you said they can beat whoever, what I am telling you is, Saiyan Saga VEGETA can not harm a Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, 3 or even black hair Namekian Saga Goku and he was a planet buster. Frieza with his planet busting attack can not harm a Super Saiyan either which means DBZ characters CAN withstand/TANK planet busting power. Anyone who knows anything about DBZ or anything Dragonball related knows this. Right now the only thing you are doing is trolling.

So lets do the math. DBZ characters can TANK moon busting and planetary level attacks. Now the only thing we need you to comprehend is the difference between someone dying from a planetary attack vs someone dying from someone else power output.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku during the Saiyan Saga deflected a planet busting attack against Vegeta. Vegeta deflected Buu planet busting attack. Piccolo deflected Frieza planet busting attack. We are talking about DBZ you know. Seems like you know very little about the manga my friend.

I never said you said they can beat whoever, what I am telling you is, Saiyan Saga VEGETA can not harm a Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2, 3 or even black hair Namekian Saga Goku and he was a planet buster. Frieza with his planet busting attack can not harm a Super Saiyan either which means DBZ characters CAN withstand/TANK planet busting power. Anyone who knows anything about DBZ or anything Dragonball related knows this. Right now the only thing you are doing is trolling.

So lets do the math. DBZ characters can TANK moon busting and planetary level attacks. Now the only thing we need you to comprehend is the difference between someone dying from a planetary attack vs someone dying from someone else power output.


Why are you repeating what im saying i already said they could deflect planet busting attacks. Why cant lower levels harm higher levels if vegeta "supposedly" surpassed ssj3 goku against bills who is a god in his ssj2 form. Bills was on a completely different plane than goku and vegeta. Yet master roshi said vegeta surpassed goku. Also when goku fought kid buu ssj2 he was keeping up with him and hurting him he just wasnt creating enough damage.

Weve never seen anyone just sit there and tank a planet buster so you cant say that they all can just because they are at a higher level.

There are a couple instances in the cell saga alone where cell who was stronger than both opponents was harmed by planet busting attacks.

The difference between saiyan and later sagas when it comes to planet busting is that characters need different charging times depending on their power levels to reach a planet busting ki blast.

Where is your proof for a dbz character tanking a planet busting attack. Show me somone tanking one.

Also in a recent interview toriyama stated himself " super saiyan 2 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more."

So there you go someone who isnt super saiyan can in fact harm one who is.

Would like to point out the Frieza kind of tanked a planet buster in the form of a planet exploding in his face. Cell to a much lesser extent survived his self-destruction which had enough power to destroy the Earth and King Kai's planet: though in a sense wouldn't that count as a KO in forums?

But I digress....not sure where this thread is going or how it relates to Gohan. Wasn't he confirmed to be the strongest non-fused character in the series or did "Battle of the Gods" recton that? I still haven't seen the movie.

I was just showing dbz's inconsistency with gohan stopping a solar system buster on his own then goku and vegeta running from a planet buster in the next saga. No matter how you look at it something that has the power to blow up a solar system is a more devastating attack then something that blows up planets. Not saying that kid buu cant blow up solar systems because im pretty sure he could muster enough energy to do so too but i feel that goku and vegeta should have stopped kid buus blast together especially if goku ended up being the one who kills buu...... Maybe its just toriyama's pis in order to create a scenario where only goku ends up being the one to beat buu but that doesnt change the fact that it is inconsistent along with other things like them being lightspeed.

Yes frieza and cell survived but by no means did they tank those events cell,frieza ,goku and other have recieved damage from planet busters?

Regardless mystic/ultimate gohan is the strongest character within the show

Dbz is great for nostalgic reasons but ppl sometimes act as if its the best written masterpiece when in actuality it isnt.

Originally posted by chasedown
I was just showing dbz's inconsistency with gohan stopping a solar system buster on his own then goku and vegeta running from a planet buster in the next saga. No matter how you look at it something that has the power to blow up a solar system is a more devastating attack then something that blows up planets. Not saying that kid buu cant blow up solar systems because im pretty sure he could muster enough energy to do so too but i feel that goku and vegeta should have stopped kid buus blast together especially if goku ended up being the one who kills buu...... Maybe its just toriyama's pis in order to create a scenario where only goku ends up being the one to beat buu but that doesnt change the fact that it is inconsistent along with other things like them being lightspeed.

Yes frieza and cell survived but by no means did they tank those events cell,frieza ,goku and other have recieved damage from planet busters?

Regardless mystic/ultimate gohan is the strongest character within the show

Dbz is great for nostalgic reasons but ppl sometimes act as if its the best written masterpiece when in actuality it isnt.

Cell and Frieza received damage from the Z fighters, not the planet busters.

Goku and Vegeta didn't run from a planet buster, they ran from BUU POWER. Destroying the planet is a SIDE EFFECT. The planet being destroyed doesn't have a thing to do with the power of the blast. If you are applying this rule to DBZ characters, you need to apply it to ALL characters.

Goku and Vegeta couldn't stop Buu blast because Buu put to much POWER into it. Remember, the first blast (do not ignore this part) Buu shot was planet busting and Vegeta deflected it. What does that tell us? That Vegeta and Goku can deflect planet busting power which again goes against your argument. Now the second blast was much more than that. Stop using the Anime as a reference to your claim. And again, it wasn't the explosion that killed anyone, or was it the reason Goku and Vegeta ran, again, it was BUU POWER (Goku even states this... "we cant stop this Vegeta, he is putting too much power into that blast).

WTF man. Vegeta hit Frieza with everything he had, a more powerful Frieza and Frieza tanked it. Vegeta hit Cell with everything he had and Cell tanked it. This is the same Vegeta that destroyed a planet during his weakest. This is my last post to you because everything that I am saying is going over your head. I am about to make a thread on this topic. Hope people like Galan, or others that are familiar with DBZ respond in the thread.

Originally posted by carver9
Cell and Frieza received damage from the Z fighters, not the planet busters.

Goku and Vegeta didn't run from a planet buster, they ran from BUU POWER. Destroying the planet is a SIDE EFFECT. The planet being destroyed doesn't have a thing to do with the power of the blast. If you are applying this rule to DBZ characters, you need to apply it to ALL characters.

Goku and Vegeta couldn't stop Buu blast because Buu put to much POWER into it. Remember, the first blast (do not ignore this part) Buu shot was planet busting and Vegeta deflected it. What does that tell us? That Vegeta and Goku can deflect planet busting power which again goes against your argument. Now the second blast was much more than that. Stop using the Anime as a reference to your claim. And again, it wasn't the explosion that killed anyone, or was it the reason Goku and Vegeta ran, again, it was BUU POWER (Goku even states this... "we cant stop this Vegeta, he is putting too much power into that blast).

WTF man. Vegeta hit Frieza with everything he had, a more powerful Frieza and Frieza tanked it. Vegeta hit Cell with everything he had and Cell tanked it. This is the same Vegeta that destroyed a planet during his weakest. This is my last post to you because everything that I am saying is going over your head. I am about to make a thread on this topic. Hope people like Galan, or others that are familiar with DBZ respond in the thread.

So cell didnt recieve a planet busting attack?

Originally posted by chasedown
So cell didnt recieve a planet busting attack?

When?

Originally posted by carver9
When?

Final flash and instant kamehameha were both considered to be attacks capable of planet busting thats why they had to be shot of at angles that would allow them to leave the atmosphere.its also an example of people weaker than you hurting you. Both times cell lost limbs that is not tanking


Tanking is when you recieve little to no damage whatsoever.

I need to know the limits on how you would take this. Since we are basing things off of collateral damage.

I guess it take a dirt level blast to kill Toguro?

Explain this one to me since we are basing things off of collateral damage. Goku blast against Vegeta during the Saiyan saga had enough power to deflect Vegeta planet destroying blast (which would mean he had to use planetary power to deflect a planetary level blast) as shown here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6EdRXtmQ1s

Goku used Kaioken times 3 for this blast.

Here we have Goku against Frieza and he used Kaioken times 20 and the planet is still intact after the explosion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gu73uj8OPQ

Which blast is more powerful, the one that Goku used (planet destroying) against Vegeta or the one that he used against Frieza that just lit up the sky?

Originally posted by carver9
I need to know the limits on how you would take this. Since we are basing things off of collateral damage.

I guess it take a dirt level blast to kill Toguro?

Explain this one to me since we are basing things off of collateral damage. Goku blast against Vegeta during the Saiyan saga had enough power to deflect Vegeta planet destroying blast (which would mean he had to use planetary power to deflect a planetary level blast) as shown here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6EdRXtmQ1s

Goku used Kaioken times 3 for this blast.

Here we have Goku against Frieza and he used Kaioken times 20 and the planet is still intact after the explosion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gu73uj8OPQ

Which blast is more powerful, the one that Goku used (planet destroying) against Vegeta or the one that he used against Frieza that just lit up the sky?

Idk what that comparison is being shown to me for neither character tanked them and yes they were both planet busters. Frieza deflected the kamehameha with his ki.

We didnt see the damage for the kamehahameha against vegeta because vegeta hopped off of the blast and it kept going into the air.

The funny thing is im not even basing things off collateral damage idk why you think i am. Im just saying something that can destroy a solar system is stronger than a planet buster. If you have two bombs and one is said to be able to destroy a planet which of the two is the stronger bomb.



Like What should an attack that can destroy the solar system be classified as in your eyes?

Originally posted by chasedown
Final flash and instant kamehameha were both considered to be attacks capable of planet busting thats why they had to be shot of at angles that would allow them to leave the atmosphere.its also an example of people weaker than you hurting you. Both times cell lost limbs that is not tanking


Tanking is when you recieve little to no damage whatsoever.

Which means Vegeta power destroyed him and it was more than planetary. Again, the planets destruction is the side affect. Or course the planet would be destroyed if Vegeta doesn't direct it somewhere else but that doesn't mean that a Z fighter would die from a planets explosion. It has more to do with the power of the blast. I think Goku along with any other Z fighters and enemies without regeneration, could die from blasts that wouldn't level a building but that doesn't mean that people like Roshi could kill them, that means that it was a lot of power behind the blast.

Do you apply this rule to all characters. Example, if I provide a scan of Galactus (hope you know who that is) dying from a blast that didn't level the ground underneath him, could someone like Krillin kill him with a mountain busting attack? Or Superman. If I show you a scan of Superman dying from an attack that didn't even level the building beside him... does that mean that someone like King Piccolo could kill him with an average attack? Or does this just apply to DBZ characters?

Originally posted by chasedown
What should an attack that can destroy the solar system be classified as in your eyes.

Cell said that after killing Gohan, his blast would also level the solar system. Which means the side affect of his power would destroy the solar system. Which again has a lot to do with Cell power vs Gohan durability.

Frieza got shredded by a blast that did nothing to the surrounding area but yet, he survived a planets explosion. Which is more powerful, Trunks blast that didn't do anything to the rocks below him or the planet explosion that Frieza withstood?

Originally posted by carver9
Cell said that after killing Gohan, his blast would also level the solar system. Which means the side affect of his power would destroy the solar system. Which again has a lot to do with Cell power vs Gohan durability.

Frieza got shredded by a blast that did nothing to the surrounding area but yet, he survived a planets explosion. Which is more powerful, Trunks blast that didn't do anything to the rocks below him or the planet explosion that Frieza withstood?

So an attack that destroys the solar system as a side effect is weaker than one that can only destroy a planet as a side effect?

Originally posted by chasedown
So an attack that destroys the solar system as a side effect is weaker than one that can only destroy a planet as a side effect?

It depends. If Super Saiyan 3 Goku expended all of his power in a blast (his Kamehameha that he used against Buu) and it did nothing (his blast didnt destroy anything) and Cell expended all of his power into an attack and it destroyed a solar System, I would say Goku blast is more powerful since Goku even at Super Saiyan 2 is more powerful than Cell. Remember, even though Cell had enough power to shed a solar system with a blast, Gohan matched his power at super saiyan 2 levels. I also think Buu blast, the one that Goku couldn't stop is more powerful than Cell solar system buster since we all know that Goku could deflect Cell blast with ease during the Buu saga.

Originally posted by chasedown
Idk what that comparison is being shown to me for neither character tanked them and yes they were both planet busters. Frieza deflected the kamehameha with his ki.

We didnt see the damage for the kamehahameha against vegeta because vegeta hopped off of the blast and it kept going into the air.

The funny thing is im not even basing things off collateral damage idk why you think i am. Im just saying something that can destroy a solar system is stronger than a planet buster. If you have two bombs and one is said to be able to destroy a planet which of the two is the stronger bomb.



Like What should an attack that can destroy the solar system be classified as in your eyes?

You are using Collateral damage though. You said that Goku and Friends died from a planetary level attack. What I am telling you is, it takes more than that to take out a Z fighter. You then state that they can't survive anything past a planetary attack and I am asking you for proof since during their early stages, Z fighters were able to destroy planets. With that said, you are basically saying that Saiyan saga Vegeta could have defeated Frieza since he has planetary power (which is one of the worst I've heard from anyone concerning a DBZ character). Vegeta even said that he couldn't harm final form Frieza and this was a more powerful Vegeta than Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

Originally posted by carver9
It depends. If Super Saiyan 3 Goku expended all of his power in a blast (his Kamehameha that he used against Buu) and it did nothing (his blast didnt destroy anything) and Cell expended all of his power into an attack and it destroyed a solar System, I would say Goku blast is more powerful since Goku even at Super Saiyan 2 is more powerful than Cell. Remember, even though Cell had enough power to shed a solar system with a blast, Gohan matched his power at super saiyan 2 levels. I also think Buu blast, the one that Goku couldn't stop is more powerful than Cell solar system buster since we all know that Goku could deflect Cell blast with ease during the Buu saga.

I get what your saying buy Im a logical thinker so id still think a solar system busting attack is stronger than a planet busting one and i do think kid buu is capable of doing the same.

I feel like the two explanations for goku and vegeta not being able to stop that blast together would be plot no jutsu or kid buu created a blast of unfathomable power or something like that. Although since goku himself said he could of killed kid buu in ssj3 if he went all out in the beginning of the fight i feel like him and vegeta should have been able to stop it Together its not like they were up against buuhan.

But whatever its dbz its not supposed to make sense especially when its creator akira toriyama retconed the strength of ssj3 in battle of the gods and him most recent interview

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