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Both characters are at their peaks...

oh yeah... I went there...

Krayt

This should be interesting.

I'd say Vader, His TK does seem to vastly outstrip Krayt's own. But that's just my opinion.

Krayt is one of those people who I'm not quite sure where to place. I have Vitiate>Krayt>Anakin, and that's all I really know for sure about his placement.

For me it's often Vader who's hard to place! Since he existed so early, different writers seem to have different views of his power. Sometimes he jobs, sometimes he's an unstoppable force. Whereas in most cases it's lack of exposure that causes inconsistency, in Vader's case it's so much exposure.


I do picture it devolving into a pretty epic argument ^^ I mean, these two guys both knew each other and had a conversation about avoiding the dark side!

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Krayt is one of those people who I'm not quite sure where to place. I have Vitiate>Krayt>Anakin, and that's all I really know for sure about his placement.

To make it more specific, I'd say Exar Kun>Krayt>Malgus where I place Vader too.

Vader

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I'd say Vader, His TK does seem to vastly outstrip Krayt's own. But that's just my opinion.

You're opinion is worthless of course you might want to go look at Zapan's respect thread.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/darth-vader-respect-thread-1576417/

Krayt has ragdolled Darth Maladi, choked out Nihl, and sent Cade flying, hurled boulders, and destroyed pillars. All of these are solid feats.

But Vader has blown a hole through durasteel, collapsed a massive tree, collapsed a cathedral, crushed massive droids, crushed an X wing midflight, and casually hurls ships like nothing.

Vader is more powerful.

Krayt.

Originally posted by carthage
You're opinion is worthless of course you might want to go look at Zapan's respect thread.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/darth-vader-respect-thread-1576417/

Krayt has ragdolled Darth Maladi, choked out Nihl, and sent Cade flying, hurled boulders, and destroyed pillars. All of these are solid feats.

But Vader has blown a hole through durasteel, collapsed a massive tree, collapsed a cathedral, crushed massive droids, crushed an X wing midflight, and casually hurls ships like nothing.

Vader is more powerful.

Lmfao sorry about that post Fated, I thought you said Krayt. You can make a voodoo doll of me now and stab it

Krayt's unique abilities are stupidly OP and Vader just can't over-come them.

Krayt via force lightning.

Originally posted by carthage
You're opinion is worthless of course you might want to go look at Zapan's respect thread.
Originally posted by carthage
Lmfao sorry about that post Fated, I thought you said Krayt. You can make a voodoo doll of me now and stab it

Well that's interesting. People's opinions are worthless if they disagree with Carthage, but as long as they agree with him, they aren't.

It's not like that wasn't obvious.

Vader. He is too powerful

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Vader. He is too powerful

No he is not. He has two big weaknesses.

Originally posted by Marco1907
No he is not. He has two big weaknesses.


Dude he's 80% as powerful as Sidious.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Dude he's 80% as powerful as Sidious.

True, that's only his TK and TP potential. And he still has two big weaknesses. Which is why Sidious can one shot him via speedblitz or force lightning burst, despite the fact that he has %80 of Sidious's power.

Yeah. Cause that one shotting worked very well when Vader was carrying him over to a bottomless pit to throw him in.

Krayt actually can one shot tho

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah. Cause that one shotting worked very well when Vader was carrying him over to a bottomless pit to throw him in.

What Vader would do without reactor shaft ? He just die because of Sidious's lightning. There was only one way to kill him ; backstabbing (or you can call it backcarrying) and finding a reactor shaft to throw.

Sidious would one shot Vader, without backcarrying and reactor shaft

Originally posted by Trocity
Krayt actually can one shot tho

QFT.

Originally posted by Marco1907
What Vader would do without reactor shaft ?


Stab him with his Saber. Or crush him with his Cyborg strength.

But yes, getting him from behind is the only way he was going to "defeat" Sidious. However I refuse to believe someone who Lucas himself has said is 80% as Powerful as Sidious will get one shotted by him (Unless it's a Lightning blast that hits him before he can take his Saber out kind of like in the DS ending of TFU2- Endor).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Stab him with his Saber. Or crush him with his Cyborg strength.

But yes, getting him from behind is the only way he was going to "defeat" Sidious. However I refuse to believe someone who Lucas himself has said is 80% as Powerful as Sidious will get one shotted by him (Unless it's a Lightning blast that hits him before he can take his Saber out kind of like in the DS ending of TFU2- Endor).

Sidious's force lightning is too strong to deflect with lightsaber, especially by Vader, who has cybernatics, it will be like magnet to lightning.

Mace Windu, hardly (with screams) deflected it. And Yoda failed to deflect it with lightsaber in RotS and lost his saber.

Vader is not going to deflect Sidious's lightning with lightsaber, especially Sidious's lightning.

Lucas also said, Vader was like Count Dooku and Darth Maul, so %80 shouldn't be that impressive. And Vader should be more close to Maul and Dooku level, more than Sidious level.

Also lets not forget that, Maul's potential was being more powerful than Mother Talzin, who was strong enough to fight against Darth Sidious more than few minutes. Maul's full potential shouldn't be that low, comparing to that %80.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Sidious's force lightning is too strong to deflect with lightsaber, especially by Vader, who has cybernatics, it will be like magnet to lightning.

Mace Windu, hardly (with screams) deflected it. And Yoda failed to deflect it with lightsaber in RotS and lost his saber.

Vader is not going to deflect Sidious's lightning with lightsaber, especially Sidious's lightning.
Nonsense. There is no such thing as unblockable lightning.

Yoda losing saber to lightning is circumstantial as at that point he barely landed and didn't have time to prepare for attack or solidify his base. He did block his lightning with saber in RotS script though.

Also, this:
From 1:40
NBpB-rWPvE8

Marek had no problem deflecting Sidious' lightning with one hand at 4:30:
wHYWsvoBCFY

The lasted source is non canon. In another non canon source we see Bader get his saber blown away by Palp's FL.

Also, Malgus's lightning has overloaded light sabers.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Sidious's force lightning is too strong to deflect with lightsaber, especially by Vader, who has cybernatics, it will be like magnet to lightning.

Doesn't matter. Their force powers divert the Lightning to the Saber. That's why Opress with his lack of training could not catch Lightning with his Saber.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Mace Windu, hardly (with screams) deflected it. And Yoda failed to deflect it with lightsaber in RotS and lost his saber.

Yoda lost it after being caught by surprise.

Vader is stronger than Windu in the Force. As well as being "physically" stronger.


Originally posted by Marco1907
Vader is not going to deflect Sidious's lightning with lightsaber, especially Sidious's lightning.

Sure he is. Windu not only catches it, but deflects it back onto Sidious.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Lucas also said, Vader was like Count Dooku and Darth Maul, so %80 shouldn't be that impressive. And Vader should be more close to Maul and Dooku level, more than Sidious level.


Being "Like" Maul and Dooku does not make them equally powerful. They were all "alike" because they were all apprentices to Sidious who were less powerful than Sidious, and not likely to ever surpass him in power.



Originally posted by Marco1907
Also lets not forget that, Maul's potential was being more powerful than Mother Talzin, who was strong enough to fight against Darth Sidious more than few minutes. Maul's full potential shouldn't be that low, comparing to that %80.

Talzin used magics so not relevant. Sidious wanted a proper Sith Apprentice. While learning whatever dark magic secrets he could as well.

Vader had achieved 80% of Sidious's power. His potential would have been higher than this.

@arhael

The first video is moot also. That was dream, sith sorcery.

Movie canon > TCW canon > Others

Yoda failed to deflect Sidious's lightning via lightsaber. Call it nonsense as you like, it will not change the fact.

.http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/StarWarsEpisodeIII-RevengeoftheSith-new_zpsd41300a0.gif

Sidious's force lightning gave more hard time to Windu than his lightsaber skills. If you read the RotS novel you would know this.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER


Vader had achieved 80% of Sidious's power. His potential would have been higher than this.

What ? Lucas never said something like this. He just said Anakin had %200 of Sidious potential, but after his heavy injury that potential decrease to %80. Then he became like Count Dooku and Darth Maul. Not like the Emperor.






------------

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Vader is stronger than Windu in the Force. As well as being "physically" stronger.

Sure he is. Windu not only catches it, but deflects it back onto Sidious.



Vader is not ''so stronger'' than Windu in the force, nor Vader is not at another level than Windu. Windu is strong enough to manipulate an AT-TE(a tank), force crushed Grievous, created powerful force wave that destroyed a large group of droid army.

Stronger than Windu ? When Vader destroyed super-battle droids with his bare hands, or when did he matched with a Gundark in terms of physical strength ?

Windu was physically stronger, and more skilled than Vader. And as I said before, Vader's cybernetic limbs and his breathing mask makes him magnet to lightning. That is why, that feat is impossivle to accomplish for Vader.

This quote explains why Vader can't do the same ;



Vader is vulnerable to sith lightning.

Originally posted by Marco1907
This quote explains why Vader can't do the same ;



Vader is vulnerable to sith lightning.


That's irrelevant to him catching FL with his Lightsaber.


Originally posted by Marco1907


Movie canon > TCW canon > Others




No TCW is just as canon as the Movies now. It always was really considering even in the old rules, whatever Lucas confirmed was G-Canon, and Lucas always said TCW was canon.


Originally posted by Marco1907


Yoda failed to deflect Sidious's lightning via lightsaber. Call it nonsense as you like, it will not change the fact.




Nah, it just caught him by surprise.

Ventress gets hit by Dooku's FL when she fights alongside the Nightsisters, but blocks it when fighting alongside Opress.

Plus the script confirms Yoda deflects Sidious's Lightning right after Sidious lost his Lightsaber.

Script is G - Canon.

If you look at the depiction in the RotS comic, also, some of Sidious's lightning did snake past Mace's lightsaber, and he had to conjure a barrier to protect himself against the stray bolts.

Malgus's lightning blasted through the defenses provided by Aryn Leneer's dual lightsabers, as well as those of a Zabrak Jedi Master.

Originally posted by Trocity
Krayt actually can one shot tho


No, he can't.

Vader is Krayt's superior in force power, though it's not to the extent that Vader could ragdoll him, though it would provide him somewhat of an advantage depending on the location they would be fighting and if the location.

Krayt's dark transfer requires that he places his hand on his opponent, which would be a very risky move mid-combat against someone like Vader, unless he overpowers Vader in a duel, which I don't see happening. His sorcery was only used on Cade, who was nearly unconscious at the time. Other than that one use of the power, Krayt's never used illusions in the middle of combat, so there's no reason to assume it would come in handy against Vader.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Lol @ Starkiller manipulating Star Destroyer... He can manipulate Star Destroyer, but he gets heavy wounds from Shaak Ti's force blast...

When did Shaak Ti wound him via Tk? Besides that was a much weaker incarnation of starkiller, and clearly a more powerful Shaak Ti. Shaak Ti who even at the time of ROTS was considered one of the premier Council Members.

Originally posted by Marco1907
No ****ing way Starkiller can manipulate a star destroyer,

Except he did.

Originally posted by Marco1907
he can only change its rotation (which was already falling)


He changed the direction it was falling. He did that by MOVING it. That IS manipulating it.

Originally posted by Marco1907
a little, with 1 hour work...

What? LOL So it took an hour for the Star Destroyer to fall?



Originally posted by Marco1907
Wtf ''Now'' means ? He is talking about RotS timeline, and his raw force potential only. He also said Anakin's raw potential %200, but after his injury it became %80. Means ; that potential is gone. You are just making up this like ''now he can be %80 of him one day'' he never said this bullshit.


No, "Now" is the time of the OT. That's why he talks about "human Anakin" referring to him in the past, and talks right after the "Now" quote about Luke.

In any case ROTJ Vader was almost 50, so had plenty of time to fulfill his potential. Or at least very close to it. To put things in perspective for you Windu was 54 in ROTS.

I like to think reborn!Krayt is a cosmic horror elevated to the highest ranks of Sithdom. Not so much that he'd stomp Vader, who is himself one of the baddest Sith Lords ever, but on par with Revan or something.

Reborn!Krayt > Vader > Krayt

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
His sorcery was only used on Cade, who was nearly unconscious at the time. Other than that one use of the power, Krayt's never used illusions in the middle of combat, so there's no reason to assume it would come in handy against Vader.

What did he use on Wyyrlok?

Originally posted by Trocity
What did he use on Wyyrlok?


A lightsaber.

Okay, my mistake. I assumed Krayt used an illusion to make Wyyrlok think his sorcery was working on him.

There is a *possible* use of sorcery there.


In one panel, he's being affected by Wyyrlok's sorcery and has empty hands. Then he says, 'This isn't your trap, it's mine,' and then in the next he's stabbing Wyyrlok.

So *either* he was making it appear he was unarmed when he wasn't, *or* he did a really, really fast quickdraw when he broke free. The latter might be a bit more likely, but the situation's ambiguous.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I like to think reborn!Krayt is a cosmic horror elevated to the highest ranks of Sithdom. Not so much that he'd stomp Vader, who is himself one of the baddest Sith Lords ever, but on par with Revan or something.

Reborn!Krayt > Vader > Krayt


I think Krayt is above Revan, but not Vader, who I also see as being a tier above Revan in terms of power. Even Muur seemed far more impressed with Vader's power than Krayt's and that was when Vader was far from his prime. Of course the same can be said about Krayt, but Vader's improvement and display of power later in the DT series seemed to be far more noticeable after he discovered Murr than Reborn Krayt's power boost after being reborn. When Krayt faced Murr, he was already a practitioner of dark transfer, and was slowly curing the effects of the vong growths and his powers didn't exhaust him as earlier in the series. After his rebirth, he was merely stalemating Wyyrlok in their force duel, so I think he was exaggerating his boost in power, whereas Vader was clearly depicted as being far more powerful later on down the DT series.

Of course Muur was more impressed with the Chosen One's power than Krayts. Doesn't mean he's actually better though. If we're going by those kinds of evaluations what do you think of Jacen browning his undies over Krayt and Luke thinking he could represent the darkside on the Throne of Balance?

Originally posted by Trocity
Okay, my mistake. I assumed Krayt used an illusion to make Wyyrlok think his sorcery was working on him.


He may have used a counter illusion on an unprepared Wyyrlok while Wyylok was just standing there gloating over his "victory," but, IIRC, Krayt was having detailed visions of his past, which to me, suggests that Wyyrlok's sorcery briefly penetrated Krayt's mind. However, Krayt was prepared for such an attack and overpowered it.

Is there anything conclusive for what you are suggesting? I have no problem accepting that as being the case, but that's not how I viewed it, as Wyyrlok clearly reached out to utilize the attack which dropped Krayt to his knees, and I don't see any reason for Krayt to purposely make such a foolish move in the middle of combat, especially since Wyyrlok was putting up a good fight just prior.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Of course Muur was more impressed with the Chosen One's power than Krayts. Doesn't mean he's actually better though. If we're going by those kinds of evaluations what do you think of Jacen browning his undies over Krayt and Luke thinking he could represent the darkside on the Throne of Balance?


If you're implying that Muur is more impressed with potential, then it seems like he would've been more interested in Cade than Krayt, which he wasn't, so I'm assuming Muur chooses his hosts based on realized power.

1) Visions are vague, and Krayt was a great threat to the galaxy with his large army of sith and his eventual take over of the empire.

2) Bad writing and Krayt was the most powerful dark sider at the time I believe. Regardless, that has nothing on Anakin's place in the force, and is kind of irrelevant.

Vader, his TK shows that in raw force power he's above Krayt. In Lightsaber dueling he's also better and Lightsaber prowess is also connected via your force reserves, meaning Vader can probably break through krayt's defenses. Although I do think krayt can potentially kill Vader cause of that hax ability of his, but Vader beats him in all stats.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Is there anything conclusive for what you are suggesting? I have no problem accepting that as being the case, but that's not how I viewed it, as Wyyrlok clearly reached out to utilize the attack which dropped Krayt to his knees, and I don't see any reason for Krayt to purposely make such a foolish move in the middle of combat, especially since Wyyrlok was putting up a good fight just prior.

Nah, that makes sense. I just interpreted it as an illusion back when I read it I guess.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
When did Shaak Ti wound him via Tk?


http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/TheForceUnleashed043_zps0c4cd7ca.jpg

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/TheForceUnleashed044_zps86b6559f.jpg




Originally posted by DARTH POWER


What? LOL So it took an hour for the Star Destroyer to fall?



In the game and novel, yeah. In the novel he thinks and talks about stardestroyer and how is he going to manipulate and that lasted almost 5 or 6 pages. And in the game, it is like this ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fabhYnifvY8

impressive feat

Maybe Shaak Ti can manipulate a star destroyer too....

I never knew Ti lacerated Starkiller (who atomizes ships, redirects Star destroyers). I'm moving her up now a little that is indeed impressive

Ti's not comparable with the Clone at all. And the Marek that redirected Star Destroyers was well above his old self.

I only said that feat was impressive, not that she was above Him

I'm just saying the Marek and Starkiller that performed those feats all outclass the Marek Ti actually fought.

Plus her doing that well against him in sabers doesn't relate as much to what force feats he can pull off.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I like to think reborn!Krayt is a cosmic horror elevated to the highest ranks of Sithdom. Not so much that he'd stomp Vader, who is himself one of the baddest Sith Lords ever, but on par with Revan or something.

Reborn!Krayt > Vader > Krayt

Interesting. You think Revan>Vader?

Originally posted by Marco1907
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/TheForceUnleashed043_zps0c4cd7ca.jpg

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y418/karasakal_teach/TheForceUnleashed044_zps86b6559f.jpg


Ok yeah in the comic. Not in the novel which I always took as the more true version of events. But even in the comic she was shooting some form of Lightning power at him.

In any case, we know who won that fight (mainly via the Force) and we know that was a much weaker incarnation of Marek.






Originally posted by Marco1907
In the game and novel, yeah. In the novel he thinks and talks about stardestroyer and how is he going to manipulate and that lasted almost 5 or 6 pages. And in the game, it is like this ;


LOL I'll have to check the exact number of pages again, but 5 pages of a book do not equate an hour. A book can describe a second per page if it likes.

Originally posted by Marco1907
And in the game, it is like this ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fabhYnifvY8


Mostly game play so non canon.



Originally posted by Marco1907
Maybe Shaak Ti can manipulate a star destroyer too....


Nah she's clearly weaker than DS Galen in the Force. She's much weaker than LS Galen who just barely pulled off the Star Destroyer feat himself.

Point still stands Vader's/Galen's TK > Windu's TK.