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who wins who dies?

Wyyrlok IMO. His illusions would probably be what he wins on.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Wyyrlok IMO. His illusions would probably be what he wins on.

illusion ? iirc that was telepathy, and he is not going to beat maul via telepathy since maul has a tp feat which is killing a telepath via dark thoughts with ease

maul wins this solidly, has better skill, speed, telekinesis, strength, durability etc.

Originally posted by Marco1907
illusion ? iirc that was telepathy, and he is not going to beat maul via telepathy since maul has a tp feat which is killing a telepath via dark thoughts with ease

maul wins this solidly, has better skill, speed, telekinesis, strength, durability etc.
And he also has the experience of becoming a psychotic spider gollum thing.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And he also has the experience of becoming a psychotic spider gollum thing.

which is a great feat in terms of power of the dark side, it is even impressed darth sidious. it is a power that wyyrlok can't accomplish. he just died with two lightsaber stab wound.

maul survived from being cut in half via same power ; his dark thoughts ;

8PY-wcY-C0I

''It has been soo long and my path has been soo dark. Darker than I ever dreamed it could be. ...''

Wyyrlok. He beats Maul with his illusions.

Nah, Maul's got this.

And Andeddu was one of the greatest Sith Sorcerers of all time yet Wyyrlok beat him with his own specialty.

Someone please remind me, Did Wyyrlok actually hold his own against Krayt in a duel or did Wyyrlok get completely destroyed?

I think Wyyrlok could take it with those illusions of his, Lightsabers will probably go to Maul.

He survived, it didn't look like he was holding his own though. Krayt had the advantage.

But he survived long enough to use his illusions so imo he should be able to do so against Maul too.

Wyyrlok's one of the two members of the One Sith whom I think Maul would fall to.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He survived, it didn't look like he was holding his own though. Krayt had the advantage.

But he survived long enough to use his illusions so imo he should be able to do so against Maul too.

I was thinking the same thing, Wyyrlok could screw with Mauls head, unless Maul can attack without Wyyrlok noticing blah blah blah Jensaarai1 is a dumbass.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Iunless Maul can attack without Wyyrlok noticing
That's really more of a Kolar thing than a Maul thing.

In The Wrath of Darth Maul, Maul was able to see through Talzin's illusions. What's special about Wyyrlok's?

Wyyrlok beat Andeddu with them.

What's special about Talzin's?

I believe Maul is over estimated a lot. Maul woud beat Wyyrlok is sabers after a good duel but Wyyrrlok has him in force powers
IMO this could go either way.

And yet some would compare Maul to Krayt.

Maul vs Krayt would go down a lot like Wyyrlok vs Krayt did IMO. A good fight but the out come was inevitable.

I can't remember too many feats for Talzin off the top of my head other than her astrally projecting dozens of Nightsisters. I was just saying, Maul is pretty familiar with illusions. Given Maul's mental robustness/telepathic abilities I don't think it's a stretch to say he could resist Wyyrlok's illusions, but then I don't know a ton about him so I'm open to having my mind changed.

Why would Wyyrlok give Maul a good saber duel, and how has he got him beat in the Force?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's really more of a Kolar thing than a Maul thing.

It's not even a Jensaarai reference regardless...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wyyrlok beat Andeddu with them.

What's special about Talzin's?
Indeed.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Someone please remind me, Did Wyyrlok actually hold his own against Krayt in a duel or did Wyyrlok get completely destroyed?

Krayt had the upper hand throughout but he did quite well considering who he was up against. I'd say he held his own.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I think Wyyrlok could take it with those illusions of his, Lightsabers will probably go to Maul.

Maul is the better duellist certainly but people seem to be forgetting Maul has displayed high resistance to psychic ability. One telepath (albeit a non-Force user) went catatonic from trying to read his mind. Maul's mental discipline is such that he could probably resist Wyyrlok's illusions.


Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Jensaarai1 is a genius.

Fixed it for you.

He held his own against Krayt, though it was clear he was at a strong disadvantage.



Yeah, Maul will win the duel. The entire illusions propaganda lately has been a little ridiculous, but even going by such logics it's safe to say Maul is in the safe zone here.

Against Krayt, Wyyrlok specifically exploited his intimate knowledge of Krayt's past and personality and was still overcome by the latter's will.

There's a lot going Bane's way as far as hype for his sheer force of will, but Maul is even moreso literally the poster boy for that very quality.

Originally posted by Marco1907
illusion ? iirc that was telepathy, and he is not going to beat maul via telepathy since maul has a tp feat which is killing a telepath via dark thoughts with ease

That was Memory Walk, an ability that is a bit different than telepathy- and it's been used on powerful sith on different occasions. Wyyrlok against Andeddu, Zannah against Bane.

It shows targets their fears and such, but I don't think the user actually reads their mind exactly.


Also, Wyyrlok does have plain illusions, like he used against the Malevolence cult.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Someone please remind me, Did Wyyrlok actually hold his own against Krayt in a duel or did Wyyrlok get completely destroyed?


Wyyrlok was able to defend and while he didn't do much in return, he was holding his guard.

Well enough that he had room to use his force powers and shift the battle to that area.

Illusions are just another form of mind trick--ie telepathy.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Illusions are just another form of mind trick--ie telepathy.

Telepathy is specifically the reading of a mind, though, and vulnerable to backlash.

Projecting something isn't particularly vulnerable to blowback. Even when the ability is countered, the users haven't been harmed.

However, aside from the Maul thing, the RotS Novelization had Palpatine lure Tiin into reading *just* to cause backlash.


Since you're reaching into someone's thoughts and putting them into your head, those thoughts can hurt you, see? If they aren't in your head, they can't.

Telepathy is the purported transmission of information from one person to another without using any of our known sensory channels or physical interaction.

To the point here, it's a mind reading attempt that Maul fried. The same defense doesn't have much reason to work against illusions or memory walk.

I never even mentioned that. I just pointed out that in terms of sheer force of will, the sole defense against Sith sorcery, who comes to your mind before Maul? It's literally his foremost defining trait.

Maul takes this.

Wyyrlok.

Maul has never impressed me as a force wielder. Wyyrlok however has to a good degree. As far as TK goes, Maul might take a slight edge, but Wyyrlok takes all the others. Lightning, and illusions being the most important

Originally posted by WildBantha88
Maul has never impressed me as a force wielder. Wyyrlok however has to a good degree. As far as TK goes, Maul might take a slight edge, but Wyyrlok takes all the others. Lightning, and illusions being the most important

Hasn't Maul shrugged off Lightning before? other than i agree with what you said.

Weak lightning, yea, and with difficulty. Darth Wyyrloks lightning is far stronger than that random nightsister's. Still a cool feat

Maul has a slight edge in TK? You know all Wyyrlok's ever done is toss a pile of rubble, right?

Maul's moved ships, collapsed caves and tunnels, sent dozens of droids/soldiers flying, etc. etc.

I'm pretty sure he has a pretty solid advantage in that ballpark. As for lightning, if Maul can defend against Palpatine's, he can defend against Wyyrlok's.

I like how collapsing a cave with TK is an impressive feat unless you're Orgus Din.

Wyyrlok takes this.

It is an impressive Force feat, it just doesn't compensate for his other shortcomings.

And regardless, of the feats I listed, it's Maul's least impressive.

Maul best feat, moving a ship a few feet, wasn't all that impressive seeing as how it was a desperation move and all he did was move it over a few feet. He didn't pick it up or throw it, he just pushed it a little.

But of course that is WAY more impressive than creating a Force Shield to defend against rocks thrown by Darth Krayt

It was an intact stone column before he tossed it, that's a bit more impressive.


Originally posted by Nephthys
I like how collapsing a cave with TK is an impressive feat unless you're Orgus Din.


Collapsing a cave with TK is never all that impressive

Or at the least, it introduces the fudge factor of 'how much did gravity help/how intact with the cave'?


Taking down a roof is a lot less impressive than a floor for similar reasons.

I think Maul's best TK feat is the ship thing.

People need to drop the preconceived notion that Maul is just an assassin/martial artist who hasn't done anything special with the Force. He actually does have impressive telekinesis, and even when he was 15 he could have unleashed a Force scream that would have collapsed the barracks he was inside of. And he has used quite a few esoteric Force powers, they're just not really combat applicable most of the time.

Originally posted by Q99
Collapsing a cave with TK is never all that impressive

Or at the least, it introduces the fudge factor of 'how much did gravity help/how intact with the cave'?


Taking down a roof is a lot less impressive than a floor for similar reasons.

I think Maul's best TK feat is the ship thing.

Kind of disagree, it's pretty impressive in terms of TK imo. But yeah I guess it does depend on factors. Like Nalen Raloch's example was impressive, since he straight up ripped a massive boulder out of the ceiling causing the cave to destabilize. Maul's wasn't that impressive by contrast imo since he barely actually did anything to the ceiling itself.

I thought that made it more impressive, personally. He didn't make any effort to collapse the ceiling, but the force of his push cased it to topple unto itself.

Maul collapsing a portion of cave ceiling when Force pushing Kenobi isn't really his best feat. Him collapsing an entire tunnel, which didn't have any of it's structure compromised beforehand, is far more impressive. Potentially his best telekinetic feat, if not one of them.

Originally posted by ILS
Maul collapsing a portion of cave ceiling when Force pushing Kenobi isn't really his best feat. Him collapsing an entire tunnel, which didn't have any of it's structure compromised beforehand, is far more impressive. Potentially his best telekinetic feat, if not one of them.

I would say neither of them were his best.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I would say neither of them were his best.
What would you say is his best? Other good ones are pulling the Eta-Class Shuttle off of a cliff, blowing dozens of droids/soldiers away, ragdolling Kenobi.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I thought that made it more impressive, personally. He didn't make any effort to collapse the ceiling, but the force of his push cased it to topple unto itself.

To me that just suggests the ceiling was weak. They were in a mine, which are notorious for easy cave-ins.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, Maul will win the duel. The entire illusions propaganda lately has been a little ridiculous, but even going by such logics it's safe to say Maul is in the safe zone here.

Against Krayt, Wyyrlok specifically exploited his intimate knowledge of Krayt's past and personality and was still overcome by the latter's will.