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Who wins?

A-anyone?

Caedus

The Dread masters are featless overhyped TOR losers.

How mean ;_;

I'm sorry...

You do realize that this is a spite thread, right?

The Dread Masters will stomp him.

I realize that the Dread masters got their asses kicked by random fodder Jedi.

The Dread Masters don't actually have shining feats against gdnuinely strong characters:

All six of them and the Emperor combined couldn't mentally defeat Revan supplied by Meetra's force energy, for three centuries.

Master Jaric Kaedan and a squad of SpecOps took them down.

They repeatedly got stomped by Empire and Republic strike teams despite having hordes of dark side nasties to back them up.

They apparently don't even compare to the Emperor himself by any margin.

One of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time (I personally have Caedus swapping between 3 and 4) should be able to certainly defeat them.

Huh, ya know I have the DM's at number 5 in my list.....

Maybe it's time you re-evaluate your list, their collective feats are massively inconsistent if they get taken out by fodder Jedi. Like most villains in the TOR era, their power levels are ludicrously ambiguous and likely just wank at the end of the day (on top of being vague in how they were accomplished/or nexus feats).

TOR is a cancer in the EU

Originally posted by carthage
Maybe it's time you re-evaluate your list, their collective feats are massively inconsistent if they get taken out by fodder Jedi. Like most villains in the TOR era, their power levels are ludicrously ambiguous and likely just wank at the end of the day (on top of being vague in how they were accomplished/or nexus feats).

TOR is a cancer in the EU

George Lucas has always been the Cancer, actually.

Caedus destroys, f*** these Dread Master clowns.

Lol. 6 powerful Sith like these are too much for Caedus. All of them attacking him at the same time is too much for him.

Their combined might being insignificant compared to Vitiate doesn't really impress me, as without a nexus/amp, Caedus would beat Vitiate.

Originally posted by Trocity
Their combined might being insignificant compared to Vitiate doesn't really impress me, as without a nexus/amp, Caedus would beat Vitiate.

I will agree with Nephthys, if he can bring a good example, where multiple characters combine their effort to defeat someone with Force.

I recall Luke facing 5 Jensarai. I remember exhausted Luke with Ben and Vestara being attacked with Force by 20+ Sith and still able to defend. I remember Corran Horn taking on 4 Sith. I remember Jaina being able to defend against multiple Sith.

If dread masters can't gank Caedus with combined Force effort, it will go down to sabers. And it's not a big deal to outmaneuver 5 inferior people.

Sidious and Dooku vs Talzin. Soldier, Hunter and the Lumiya clone vs Jaden Korr.

Originally posted by Trocity
Their combined might being insignificant compared to Vitiate doesn't really impress me, as without a nexus/amp, Caedus would beat Vitiate.

Regardless of that, Caedus can't stand against 6 immensely powerful sorcerers all spamming powerful sorcery, tk, telepathy and lightning at him all at the same time. He simply won't be able to keep up with that. And Caedus lacks the telepathy feats to suggest he could resist their joint mental assualt imo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Caedus lacks the telepathy feats to suggest he could resist their joint mental assualt imo.
Was unaffected by Unu'thul. Mind controlled Aurora Sing.

Unuthul was merely creating a compulsion to serve him in the group of Jedi plus his kiliks. And I recall Jacen not being unaffected and actually going with the others to serve him. He eventually resisted later, but he never resisted Unuthul's direct influence.

Controlling Sing = lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And I recall Jacen not being unaffected and actually going with the others to serve him. He eventually resisted later, but he never resisted Unuthul's direct influence.

What? Nothing of this sort ever happened in the books.

I don't know what you mean. Jacen answered the compulsion to go to Unuthul just like the others.

BTW:

Originally posted by Arhael
I will agree with Nephthys, if he can bring a good example, where multiple characters combine their effort to defeat someone with Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious and Dooku vs Talzin. Soldier, Hunter and the Lumiya clone vs Jaden Korr.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know what you mean. Jacen answered the compulsion to go to Unuthul just like the others.
Ok, I see what you mean now. Jacen responded to the summoning, which is not really an influence yet. Then, when Jacen arrived, Unu'thul attempted to influence him but it didn't work:

As the voice spoke, an immense murky presence rose inside Jacen's mind, overwhelming his defenses so quickly he had no chance to shut it out. In the midst of the presence, he saw Jaina and the others, their faces filled with surprise and revulsion and pity. They were all in their flight suits, haggard and travel-worn, but healthy enough and unafraid.

They serve the Colony, Jacen, the voice said. Will you join them? Will you help your sister?

Jacen did not answer
...
The guide drew Jacen's attention back to it by pressing the helmet and flight suit into his hands. "Buu buur urub ruuruur."

Jacen pushed the equipment back into the guide's hands. "I haven't said I'm going."

"Buu rurr. Ubu ur."

"Perhaps," Jacen allowed. The murky presence had withdrawn from his own mind, once again leaving him solely with his guide.

Will check Talzin vs Sidious/Dooku. Damn, feel more and more like reading that book with Jaden Korr. After I read Crosscurrent Riptide wasn't out yet.

How is that resisting? When an attempt was made to influence him he was swiftly overwhelmed. When it stopped he had his own mind again.

UnuThul flat out tells Jaina {and Zekk?} in the third book that he can't control Jacen like he can others.

Yeah he breaks free or something and runs off to help Luke fight Lomi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How is that resisting? When an attempt was made to influence him he was swiftly overwhelmed. When it stopped he had his own mind again.
Jacen failed to block him from entering his mind as it was too sudden and unexpected. Entering mind =/= influence. At no point Jacen obeyed.

We all know how well the Dread masters did in spite of their FL33T D3STR0YING powers to fodder Jedi.

I can see dread masters overwhelming Caedus' mental defenses and then speak inside his head.
DM: "Obey us".
Caedus: "Why?"

Originally posted by carthage
The Dread masters are featless overhyped TOR losers.
After this fight they will be known as the DEAD masters

Originally posted by Stigma
After this fight they will be known as the DEAD masters

he

Originally posted by The_Tempest
he
biscuits

Originally posted by Stigma
After this fight they will be known as the DEAD masters
clapping

Originally posted by The_Tempest
he

Dread casually.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
he

I love this smiley.

Originally posted by Stigma
After this fight they will be known as the DEAD masters

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2013/12/zeb-shocked.gif

That facial hair is legendary.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Dread Masters don't actually have shining feats against gdnuinely strong characters:
Did you play the operation in SWTOR featuring Dread Masters?

Originally posted by AncientPower
All six of them and the Emperor combined couldn't mentally defeat Revan supplied by Meetra's force energy, for three centuries.
How is this relevant for Darth Caedus?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Master Jaric Kaedan and a squad of SpecOps took them down.
And the circumstances of this confrontation are unknown. Dread Masters weren't deployed on the frontlines to fight as warriors during the war, they operated from behind-the-lines to overwhelm enemy forces with their powers. Dread Masters were also more focused on exploring mysteries of the Force for the benefit of the Empire then spending time to hone their combative skills.

It is only after their release from a prison facility in Belsavis and freedom from the influence of Emperor Vitiate, that they began to realize their potential independently but they didn't get much time because the Republic checkmated them with overwhelming force not long afterwards. Nonetheless this victory came at a great cost and Republic lost an entire fleet and many lives in the process.

Here is a codex entry about Dread Master Tyrans but it clarifies the competence of all Dread Masters:

One of the most perceptive Dread Masters, Tyrans is never one to act without a plan in place. "Speak little and listen much" is his creed; he prefers to take measure of his opponents before he engages them, employing complex strategies to take advantage of their weaknesses. One of Tyrans' favored tactics is to use his insights to set his enemies at each other's throats.

Tyrans was largely responsible for the design of the Dread Fortress, ensuring that the complex would provide maximum security--not that he's afraid of a straightforward confrontation. As with the other Dread Masters, Tyrans is a formidable foe who will gladly display his impressive mastery of the dark side of the Force when needed.

Originally posted by AncientPower
They repeatedly got stomped by Empire and Republic strike teams despite having hordes of dark side nasties to back them up.
Strike Teams, not a lone individual.

Originally posted by AncientPower
They apparently don't even compare to the Emperor himself by any margin.

One of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time (I personally have Caedus swapping between 3 and 4) should be able to certainly defeat them.
This bodes well for Emperor Vitiate, not for Darth Caedus. The former have the hype of being the most powerful Force-user to have ever existed and almost god-like being.

Originally posted by Trocity
Their combined might being insignificant compared to Vitiate doesn't really impress me, as without a nexus/amp, Caedus would beat Vitiate.
Your ignorance is astounding.

Darth Caedus isn't in the league of Emperor Vitiate, not even close. This is fanon nonsense.

As for "one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history" related argument; Darth Nox utterly trashed one such during his ascendance to the Dark Council, and Emperor Vitiate is above him. These type of statements won't help much in an argument if you are using Emperor Vitiate as the benchmark. Try god-like being or such.

Your bias is lulzy.

http://www.gengame.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1337179716_star-wars-old-republic-logo.jpg

This avatar suits you better.

Originally posted by Trocity
Your bias is lulzy.

http://www.gengame.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/1337179716_star-wars-old-republic-logo.jpg

This avatar suits you better.
Apart from posting lame statements in every thread and demonstrating epic ignorance of SWTOR era content, you have offered nothing convincing in an argument. Calling me out on my bias will make you look even a bigger fool because you are demonstrating ignorance on top of your obvious bias for PT and later era content.

Thanks for sharing that avatar by the way.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Caedus isn't in the league of Emperor Vitiate, not even close. This is fanon nonsense.

Yeah, the guy who can go blow for blow with an enraged Luke isn't in the same league as a guy who gets disarmed by a f**king saber throw, you're right LOL!

Btw, I'm still not sure who wins between Satele and Plagueis, mind breaking that one down more in-depth for me?

Caedus would absolutely toy with Vitiate in any duel, his tutaminis feats are more than enough to tank Vitiate's FLS attacks.

Vitiate's TP domination won't have any effect.

This would be an exceptional battle, Caedus has faced THE titan in Grand Master Skywalker and was sralemating him in a duel.

Probably the greatest lightsaber feat any Sith can claim.

Except for Sidious beating Grand Master Skywalker.

Originally posted by Trocity
Yeah, the guy who can go blow for blow with an enraged Luke isn't in the same league as a guy who gets disarmed by a f**king saber throw, you're right LOL!
Going toe-to-toe with Luke is really impressive but isn't such a big deal as you are trying to make it out to be. Lord Nyax utterly outclassed Luke FYI, if it weren't for Mara and Tahiri, Luke would have lost.

Newsflash: Luke isn't the most powerful Force-user to have ever existed and he can be defeated.

Disarmed by saber throw? Emperor was disarmed by saber throw because he was focused on Revan at that moment and not on Meetra. Ignoring the context doesn't makes your argument credible.

Originally posted by Trocity
Btw, I'm still not sure who wins between Satele and Plagueis, mind breaking that one down more in-depth for me?
If Satele Shan manages to block his lightsaber with her hands, she can gather sufficient energy to overwhelm him afterwards. Plagueis is likely strong enough to tackle her otherwise.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Going toe-to-toe with Luke is really impressive but isn't such a big deal as you are trying to make it out to be. Lord Nyax utterly outclassed Luke FYI. If it weren't for Mara and Tahiri, Luke would have lost.

Newsflash: Luke isn't the most powerful Force-user to have ever existed and he can be defeated.

Disarmed by saber throw? Emperor was disarmed by saber throw because he was focused on Revan at that moment and not on Meetra. Ignoring the context doesn't makes your argument credible.

It is when it's an enraged Luke who got the jump on him an punctured his kidney before they even started to duel.

Nyax is a joke of a character, so I'm gonna touch that one.

Whether his attention was focused elsewhere or not, being disarmed by a saber throw that the text implies would have killed him if Meetra didn't try to save Revan instead of going for the kill is kinda hilarious.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Caedus would absolutely toy with Vitiate in any duel,
No one have been able to toy with Emperor Vitiate in a fair confrontation. Not even Revan, a brilliant tactician.

FYI, Emperor is also a brilliant tactician:

Most Jedi who ventured into Imperial space vanished without a trace, but a few managed to send back disturbing messages to their Masters. These fragmented communiques showed the Emperor's Jedi pursuers descending into fear, madness, and evil when faced with his power. It quickly became clear the Sith Emperor was more then a brilliant military strategist and cunning political leader. He was a living embodiment of the dark side of the Force who delighted in destroying the minds and spirits of those Jedi who came too close to him. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

So PIS aside, Emperor is capable of making smart decisions in his confrontations.

Originally posted by AncientPower
his tutaminis feats are more than enough to tank Vitiate's FLS attacks.
And these are?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vitiate's TP domination won't have any effect.
Emperor successfully broke anybody whom he wanted to break, even multiple powerful adversaries at a time. Nobody managed to resist him in the first attempt, perhaps due to element of surprise or the sheer ferocity of the telepathic assault. Emperor have history of breaking those individuals who were thought to be immune to mental domination earlier.

Your statement doesn't have any substance. I can make assumptions endlessly, but assumptions do not carry weightage without basis.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This would be an exceptional battle, Caedus has faced THE titan in Grand Master Skywalker and was sralemating him in a duel.
Lord Nyax says hello.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Probably the greatest lightsaber feat any Sith can claim.
Caedus's dueling skills are not in question, his ability to defeat Emperor Vitiate is and rightfully so. Because a confrontation with him is unlikely to reach the point of a lightsaber dueling and is likely to end before it in defeat of Caedus.

Originally posted by Trocity
It is when it's an enraged Luke who got the jump on him an punctured his kidney before they even started to duel.
Where it is stated that Luke tapped into the dark side to confront Darth Caedus?

Originally posted by Trocity
Nyax is a joke of a character, so I'm gonna touch that one.
Narrative appeal is not my point.

Originally posted by Trocity
Whether his attention was focused elsewhere or not, being disarmed by a saber throw that the text implies would have killed him if Meetra didn't try to save Revan instead of going for the kill is kinda hilarious.
This could happen to anybody in Emperor's position. A lightsaber cuts and/or decapitates upon contact, do you understand?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except for Sidious beating Grand Master Skywalker.

Sidious never defeated Grand Master Skywalker, DE Luke managed to own prime Sidious in a duel and despite Leia's inference he became many times better at anything by the time he faced Caedus.

Nyax didn't face prime Luke, Sidious didn't, Lumiya didn't... CAEDUS did.

Oh and the use of Nyax as evidence is like a walking stick for you ain't it LeGenD.

The day you take into account the context and realise things were heavily in Nyax's favor is the day I'll take that argument seriously.

I have to say your bias is self evident right now, I use Kun's NUMEROUS statements making him rival Vitiate during the GSW and you dismiss them all as 'out of date'. Yet you frequently repeat the name Nyax without failure in any Luke debate you have despite the sheer age of Nyax's appearances (1995 & 2002).

By the way Luke still wasn't in his prime yet this was during the middle of the Vong war. Luke got far more powerful after it.

Hey, only me and Tempest are allowed to make fun of Neph's double-standards. Get lost and stop harassing members.

You should re-read the part that says 'LeGenD'.

Ancient-san, who would you day are the top 10 strongest Sith?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious never defeated Grand Master Skywalker, DE Luke managed to own prime Sidious in a duel and despite Leia's inference he became many times better at anything by the time he faced Caedus.

Nyax didn't face prime Luke, Sidious didn't, Lumiya didn't... CAEDUS did.

Oh and the use of Nyax as evidence is like a walking stick for you ain't it LeGenD.

The day you take into account the context and realise things were heavily in Nyax's favor is the day I'll take that argument seriously.

I have to say your bias is self evident right now, I use Kun's NUMEROUS statements making him rival Vitiate during the GSW and you dismiss them all as 'out of date'. Yet you frequently repeat the name Nyax without failure in any Luke debate you have despite the sheer age of Nyax's appearances (1995 & 2002).

By the way Luke still wasn't in his prime yet this was during the middle of the Vong war. Luke got far more powerful after it.


Nyax unlike Vitiate actually demonstrated the ability to mind dominate during combat. Vitiate attempted on Revan and failed, the rest is just hype and vague details about something that happened off-screen.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Ancient-san, who would you day are the top 10 strongest Sith?

1.Darth Sidious
2.Sith Emperor
3.Darth Caedus
4.Exar Kun
5.Darth Plagueis
6.Darth Krayt
7.Darth Vader


About as far as I'll go, 2-4 are interchangeable IMO.

You forgot Nihilus?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious never defeated Grand Master Skywalker, DE Luke managed to own prime Sidious in a duel and despite Leia's inference he became many times better at anything by the time he faced Caedus.

Nyax didn't face prime Luke, Sidious didn't, Lumiya didn't... CAEDUS did.

Well actually Sidious beat Luke in a duel in DE before he lost later. And Lumiya did face Prime Luke.

FotJ Luke=>LotF Luke>>>>>DE Luke

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.Darth Nihilus
2.Darth Sidious
3.Sith Emperor
4.Darth Bane
5.Darth Caedus
6.Exar Kun
7.Darth Plagueis
8.Darth Krayt
9.Darth Vader


About as far as I'll go, 2-4 are interchangeable IMO.


Agreed, but is Krayt really more powerful than Vader?

Although, I haven't read any new shit on Krayt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You forgot Nihilus?
I didn't.

Nice posting by the way, Nephthys.. is it?

A pleasure to meet you.


I shall watch your career with great interest.

Groovy.

Originally posted by Bigblue442
I didn't.

Nice posting by the way, Nephthys.. is it?

A pleasure to meet you.


I shall watch your career with great interest.
*raises eyebrow* And the hell are you to automatically place yourself above KMC's Dark Ages' greatest debater?
It took me months of worship, illegal sex, and insults to get to my superiority over Nephthys. You are nothing to him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nyax didn't face prime Luke, Sidious didn't, Lumiya didn't... CAEDUS did.

Oh and the use of Nyax as evidence is like a walking stick for you ain't it LeGenD.

The day you take into account the context and realise things were heavily in Nyax's favor is the day I'll take that argument seriously.

I have to say your bias is self evident right now, I use Kun's NUMEROUS statements making him rival Vitiate during the GSW and you dismiss them all as 'out of date'. Yet you frequently repeat the name Nyax without failure in any Luke debate you have despite the sheer age of Nyax's appearances (1995 & 2002).

By the way Luke still wasn't in his prime yet this was during the middle of the Vong war. Luke got far more powerful after it.
Do you realize that confrontation with Lord Nyax took place after the Luke Skywalker's feat of manipulating a Vong blackhole which is among his top showings? Luke was ideally balanced during this time, physically strong, experienced, and considerably powerful in the ways of the Force.

Also, where it is stated that Luke substantially grew in power after this event?

Don't try to remind me of context and bias again. In each of your debates, somebody is beating Emperor Vitiate. Most of your arguments are weak.

I have nothing against Exar Kun. It is just that he have been replaced by Emperor in supremacy in the lore and I have provided ample evidence for this. You choose to ignore evidence and label me biased which is really ironic. Your bias is much more prominent since you are not flexible to changes occurring in the lore.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you realize that confrontation with Lord Nyax took place after the Luke Skywalker's feat of manipulating a Vong blackhole which is among his top showings?
No, it's among his medium showings.

Luke moved the hole in the same book, where he got exhausted after a short fight with three Vongs. He was avoiding heavy use of Force for years prior to that. In the end of NJO Luke fought through countless Vong in Shimra citadel without getting tired and fought Slayers and Shimra after that. That's a huge difference comparing to the book, where mere three Vongs made him so tired that he needed to lean against Jacen for support. Later on in Dark Nest and FotJ Luke performed far more demanding fits that would make him glow and age a year in minutes.

News just in: Luke's the most inconsistent character in the mythos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
News just in: Luke's the most inconsistent character in the mythos.

That doesn't apply to just Luke. If a Force user stops practicing, the connection to the Force weakens. Same thing happened to Mara. At one point she was so out of practice that she got exhausted trying to Force choke Thrawn.


I have longer reply in regards to Luke's black hole feat that includes his actual heavy feats:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=605612&pagenumber=1#post14992727

Regardless, if Luke was truly so weak that that point, then maybe the black hole feat just wasn't that impressive or hard to pull off.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Regardless, if Luke was truly so weak that that point, then maybe the black hole feat just wasn't that impressive or hard to pull off.
That's exactly my point.

Bane shouldnt be above Kun lol

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
*raises eyebrow* And the hell are you to automatically place yourself above KMC's Dark Ages' greatest debater?
It took me months of worship, illegal sex, and insults to get to my superiority over Nephthys. You are nothing to him.

And who am I?

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus

The Dread masters are featless overhyped TOR losers.

Originally posted by Stigma
After this fight they will be known as the DEAD masters

^ two of my favorite quotes of all time.

Originally posted by carthage

The Dread masters are featless overhyped TOR losers.

lol @ carthage trolling. The dread masters can make soldiers and ship crew insane, can Caedus stand against their feats?

Caedus can't withstand the Might of Jaeric Kaedan and soldiers, he gets overwhelmed

Originally posted by Arhael
Later on in Dark Nest and FotJ Luke performed far more demanding fits that would make him glow and age a year in minutes.

Again, when? Because I've never seen proof of anyone but Jacen doing this.

Is this the Illusion feat?

Feats for Caedus that match scaring crew members?

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus can't withstand the Might of Jaeric Kaedan and soldiers, he gets overwhelmed

Good bump. Caedus blitzes.

And yet he loses/gets stomped with the mere addition of Karness Muur to the DM's?

yas

That's a pretty fvcking pivotal addition, tbh.

Maybe, but to go from him blitzing to being stomped, or even blitzing to losing, is a huge difference. I was just wondering if we really ranked Karness up there with Caedus. He's truly fallen, then.

Even if Caedus could blitz them, with Karness taking the front, they could still provide enormous TP/sorcery support from the back.

Well, it's interesting that we don't think Caedus would stomp Karness anymore.

Originally posted by carthage
Caedus can't withstand the Might of Jaeric Kaedan and soldiers, he gets overwhelmed For the record, I was being sarcastic when I quoted this.

And I hope carthage was when he said it.

Thank you for telling us that.

I think Caedus has a legitimate chance against the Dread Masters. His telepathic resistance is amazing, his Force defenses are alleged to be turbo-laser absorbing, he can presumably teleport, and has been able to conjure illusions that even Luke couldn't see through (on multiple occasions). On the other side, it's a press to say he has the offensive firepower to pull through her. I don't see lightsabers playing much a role here given the Dread Masters love for teleportation and the Force.

finish the thread

Teleportation delays victories; it doesn't prevent them. All the TOR teleporters ended up losing their fights anyway.

Probably because all of the TOR teleporters were fighting ridiculous odds in close-quarter enviroments.

Dread Masters

Caedus, I suppose.

My Caedus respect has gone down considerably and my respect for the DMs, given the powerscaling they recieve, probably bumps them collectively beyond him.

Powerscaling? They receive the power scaling of collectively being totally insignificant compared to Vitiate.

Which isn't at all relevant to Caedus.

They're individually far more powerful than Sith like Darth Ekkage, the most powerful Sith Assassin in the Empire's history, above the likes of Thanaton and she's much more powerful than Master Wyllett who humiliated a pre-prime Baras before becoming far more powerful.

Wyllet dueled Baras to a draw, IIRC. Somehow Baras lost his lightsaber, though.

Also, what do you mean they're "individually more powerful than Ekkage"? Their powers function when they're together, even if it's being channeled through one vessel.

Source? Because all we hear is that Wyellett took Baras' saber after failing to redeem him.

The wording of the quote implies that they are individually superior despite their shared prowess.