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This is DoE Bane. How far can he make it?

His opponents are at their peak.

Neutral setting. No amp/prep time.

1. Barriss
2. Ahsoka
3. Pong Krell
4. Grievous
5. Ventress
6. Maul
7. Kenobi
8. Anakin

Gets stomped by 4 and everyone after.

Clear.

He'd clear if they were all named Sirak

Originally posted by carthage
He'd clear if they were all named Sirak

That was actually hilarious, carth.

In terms of the gauntlet order, I would have it progressing more like this personally:

Ventress
Kenobi
Maul
Grievous

Ventress has the weakest physicals and less versatile fighting style out of the four. Kenobi is slightly better than Ventress physically and makes better use of his surroundings. Maul has the two of them beat in physicality and rivals Kenobi in fight-tactics. And Grievous has them all beat in physicality noticeably, and is a more versatile and unpredictable threat.

Bane loses to any of those four.

He isn't beating any of them tbh

Pong Krell >>> Bane tbph

In skill probably

Originally posted by ILS
Pong Krell >>> Bane tbph
Not to mention Barriss fended off Anakin in a sabers fight. That's quite impressive.

If we could keep the Bane bashing out of this please, that would be great.

Originally posted by ILS
In terms of the gauntlet order, I would have it progressing more like this personally:

Ventress
Kenobi
Maul
Grievous

Ventress has the weakest physicals and less versatile fighting style out of the four. Kenobi is slightly better than Ventress physically and makes better use of his surroundings. Maul has the two of them beat in physicality and rivals Kenobi in fight-tactics. And Grievous has them all beat in physicality noticeably, and is a more versatile and unpredictable threat.

Bane loses to any of those four.

You think Grievous is the best duelist out if those 4? Lolwut? Did you not watch RotS?

What Bane bashing you mean admitting the fact he hasn't beaten anyone without a nexus amp or orbalisks?

Yea, there's no bashing here.

The question is: Can Bane stand up to swordsmen like Grievous, Kenobi or Maul etc.?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You think Grievous is the best duelist out if those 4? Lolwut? Did you not watch RotS? I have the four of them equal in raw lightsaber skill - Grievous has the best physicals, and has a more unpredictable and versatile fighting style. So he gets the slight edge overall.

Kenobi beat Grievous due to having a very large form advantage.

Originally posted by ILS
Kenobi beat Grievous due to having a very large form advantage.
And a bit of luck.

Always a bit of luck.

Originally posted by ILS
I have the four of them equal in raw lightsaber skill - Grievous has the best physicals, and has a more unpredictable and versatile fighting style. So he gets the slight edge overall.

Kenobi beat Grievous due to having a very large form advantage.

He also lacks the Force. Maul is overall a better duelist than Grievous and so is Kenobi. Ventress also beat him, though I'm sure everyone will call this a nexus feat. His physical stats aren't that important when even Ahsoka can amp herself with the Force to be stronger than him and everyone else can use the force to predict his attacks, block them and cut off his hands ala Kenobi.

Really considering Kenobi has beaten all of them straight up he should be considered the best out of them.

He makes it to Maul and then dies.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He also lacks the Force. Maul is overall a better duelist than Grievous and so is Kenobi. Ventress also beat him, though I'm sure everyone will call this a nexus feat. His physical stats aren't that important when even Ahsoka can amp herself with the Force to be stronger than him and everyone else can use the force to predict his attacks, block them and cut off his hands ala Kenobi.

Really considering Kenobi has beaten all of them straight up he should be considered the best out of them. 1. His lacking Force senses, clairvoyance, foresight ect honestly isn't outweighed by his physical capabilities. He's noticeably stronger, faster and more durable than all of them. His mental processing capabilities that allow him to adapt to individual fighters on the fly is also useful.

2. Source for Kenobi and Maul having better dueling feats than Grievous?

3. Nexus feat.

4. Lol @ attempt at Ahsoka lowballing. I guess Ahsoka is capable of everything in Grievous's respect thread listed under strength, huh?

5. Precog wasn't why Kenobi was able to do that - if it was every opponent from Mace Windu to Shaak Ti would be dismembering Grievous in their fights with him. It was Kenobi's unrivaled mastery of Soresu.

6. Kenobi has never "beaten" Maul, I don't recall him beating Ventress conclusively 1v1 either. He's traded ups and downs with the latter anyway. Maul has "beaten" Kenobi during TCW, for the record, although unlike you I'm able to recognize the specific context behind that encounter, which was that Maul and Obi-Wan were fighting evenly until Kenobi succumbed to Dun Moch, leading to Maul's win. Kenobi's emotional control improves after that fight, and he and Maul fought evenly on Florrum aside from the cave fight, which was, again, circumstantial, and also can't even be considered a loss on Maul's part but rather Savage's.

You're honestly just rehashing the same dead arguments against Grievous at this point.

Edges out the first three. 4 & 5 are going to be close, but he goes down to Maul.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You think Grievous is the best duelist out if those 4? Lolwut? Did you not watch RotS?



It was an utter ass kicking.

Anyway, probably makes it to Maul.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Edges out the first three. 4 & 5 are going to be close, but he goes down to Maul.

The idea that Bane only edges out Ahsoka enrages me.

Because it's true, mostly.

I'm getting tired of this "But Ahsoka!" logic people (mostly Neph) bring into Grievous debates every single thread. For two reasons.

One, TCW Grievous doesn't have the same physicality as his overall EU portrayal.

Two, who gives a shit what Ahsoka is capable of? If Ahsoka can hold off Grievous briefly, good for her. That's her feat. The idea that just because she's a young padawan, her feats can translate over to any other character that isn't also a padawan, is fallacious. It's backwards logic. People act like Ahsoka's showings against Grievous are only to be used as anti-feats against Grievous opposed to feats for Ahsoka.

Then again, the people who use aforementioned logic generally don't like Grievous or the era he's from, and opt to completely ignore any of his showings they lack a means of lowballing, so I guess there's no point in taking it seriously to begin with. :mmm:

Originally posted by Nephthys
The idea that Bane only edges out Ahsoka enrages me.

Sorry, I meant that he edges them out as in those are the three I'm sure he'll beat.

Originally posted by ILS
I'm getting tired of this "But Ahsoka!" logic people (mostly Neph) bring into Grievous debates every single thread. For two reasons.

One, TCW Grievous doesn't have the same physicality as his overall EU portrayal.

Two, who gives a shit what Ahsoka is capable of? If Ahsoka can hold off Grievous briefly, good for her. That's her feat. The idea that just because she's a young padawan, her feats can translate over to any other character that isn't also a padawan, is fallacious. It's backwards logic. People act like Ahsoka's showings against Grievous are only to be used as anti-feats against Grievous opposed to feats for Ahsoka.

Then again, the people who use aforementioned logic generally don't like Grievous or the era he's from, and opt to completely ignore any of his showings they lack a means of lowballing, so I guess there's no point in taking it seriously to begin with. :mmm:

You're clearly quite hostile over this, so maybe I won't reply to your previous post after all. That said, I wasn't suggesting that her feats translate to any other character, but they certainly do translate over to Maul, Ventress and Kenobi.

In that case Anakin must really suck. Clovis kicked him across a room. Oh and there was that time Maul got shot by pirates and let's not forget all the other times high-tier fighters have been challenged by people who are generally considered fodder.

I hope you see where I'm going with this.

Originally posted by ILS
In that case Anakin must really suck. Clovis kicked him across a room. Oh and there was that time Maul got shot by pirates and let's not forget all the other times high-tier fighters have been challenged by people who are generally considered fodder.

I hope you see where I'm going with this.

That TCW characters suck? Yeah, I gathered that from the glimpses I've had of that trash show.

But the thing I'm talking about can't be so easily dismissed as Maul slipping up while desperately fleeing with his crippled brother or Anakin being a braindead tool. In a direct physical saberlock, Ahsoka pushed GG back instead of the other way around.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That TCW characters suck? Yeah, I gathered that from the glimpses I've had of that trash show.

But the thing I'm talking about can't be so easily dismissed as Maul slipping up while desperately fleeing with his crippled brother or Anakin being a braindead tool. In a direct physical saberlock, Ahsoka pushed GG back instead of the other way around. And? Do you honestly believe that Ahsoka pushing him back in a saber lock once mitigates everything else Grievous has done? He's held her by the throat before and she's been powerless to escape. He's done the same with Ventress as well, actually. He's met Maul evenly in a saber lock and even booted him through the air. He's thrown Aayla Secura and Tarr Seirr dozens of feet vertically with one leg each, and hit Shaak Ti's barrier hard enough to send her flying into a pile of debris and scrap and collapse said debris on her. His blows have been described as being "as forceful as any" Mace Windu has had to counter. He's ragdolled a group of MagnaGuards after just being put into his cybernetics for the first time, slamming them hard enough to crack transparisteel, and hit their phrik alloy staffs hard enough to snap them. He's "effortlessly" thrown Obi-Wan Kenobi around with his strength in an unarmed fight.

I can go on all day. One low showing doesn't trump a long history of being a complete physical monster.

Originally posted by ILS
And? Do you honestly believe that Ahsoka pushing him back in a saber lock once mitigates everything else Grievous has done? He's held her by the throat before and she's been powerless to escape. He's done the same with Ventress as well, actually. He's met Maul evenly in a saber lock and even booted him through the air. He's thrown Aayla Secura and Tarr Seirr dozens of feet vertically with one leg each, and hit Shaak Ti's barrier hard enough to send her flying into a pile of debris and scrap and collapse said debris on her. His blows have been described as being "as forceful as any" Mace Windu has had to counter. He's ragdolled a group of MagnaGuards after just being put into his cybernetics for the first time, slamming them hard enough to crack transparisteel, and hit their phrik alloy staffs hard enough to snap them. He's "effortlessly" thrown Obi-Wan Kenobi around with his strength in an unarmed fight.

I can go on all day. One low showing doesn't trump a long history of being a complete physical monster.

So.. you both want me to debate with you under the assumption this is Grievous from the Tartovsky CW mini instead of the Grievous from the CGI Clone Wars cartoon (this isn't the case) and also under the assumption that his Ahsoka feat is non-canon because you don't like it (even though the cartoon is the highest form of EU canon)?

Nah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So.. you both want me to debate with you under the assumption this is Grievous from the Tartovsky CW mini instead of the Grievous from the CGI Clone Wars cartoon (this isn't the case) and also under the assumption that his Ahsoka feat is non-canon because you don't like it (even though the cartoon is the highest form of EU canon)?

Nah. I didn't only reference CW cartoon feats (I even referenced two canon feats), and I never said Ahsoka's feat is non-canon, only that it alone isn't enough to build a case against Grievous's more consistent displays. It's also different from the Starkiller situation in that SK's highest level of raw power doesn't have to be displayed in every single situation in order to validate it's existence.

Originally posted by ILS
I didn't only reference CW cartoon feats (I even referenced two canon feats), and I never said Ahsoka's feat is non-canon, only that it alone isn't enough to build a case against Grievous's more consistent displays. It's also different from the Starkiller situation in that SK's highest level of raw power doesn't have to be displayed in every single situation in order to validate it's existence.

I've not argued against his consistent displays, only that Ahsoka handling his strength in that manner gives context to how others could respond to it. Meaning that we can accept his other feats and still say that they do not suggest he'd overpower the likes of those that are stronger than Ahsoka is. And you have said that you ignore GG's TCW feats to me before now, dismissing them out of hand when I bring them up as I recall.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've not argued against his consistent displays, only that Ahsoka handling his strength in that manner gives context to how others could respond to it. Meaning that we can accept his other feats and still say that they do not suggest he'd overpower the likes of those that are stronger than Ahsoka is. Which butchers consistency, because his general displays of strength suggest he wouldn't be overpowered by Ahsoka in a blade-lock. The most relevant example being him holding Ahsoka by the throat and her not being able to break out. I just don't see how you think it's actually reasonable for Ahsoka to be strong enough to overpower General Grievous. And I highly doubt you would be this overly critical of a character along the lines of Bane, although that theory will be tested when I read the trilogy and collect as many low showings as I can
I ignore certain people's attempt to lowball with said showings. I don't rule out TCW altogether, but if people are going to be unreasonable there's no need to entertain their views. Especially if the only view they have of Grievous is from a TCW PoV, with disregard to the rest of his character.

Well GG has held Kenobi by the neck as well without him being able to break it yet GG's strength doesn't trouble him in duels. They probably can't break out cuz he's made of incredibly tough metal that they can't pry off their neck. I'm not suggesting that Ahsoka is stronger than he is, but if she heavily draws on the Force she can reach his levels.

Durability doesn't come into the equation when it comes to physical force, though, which is primarily what would be needed to get out of his clutches. Anyway, if you seriously think Ahsoka Tano is Grievous's peer in strength when she wants to be, then I guess there's not much to be done. Go Ahsoka

God, I hate TCW.

Not really. If you're held by your neck off the ground it doesn't matter how strong you are, without leverage or being connected to the ground its incredibly hard to muster any force against the person holding you. The only thing you can do is try to break their arm or something and that obvious can't work on terminator bro can it?

Originally posted by ILS
People act like Ahsoka's showings against Grievous are only to be used as anti-feats against Grievous opposed to feats for Ahsoka. FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT