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Both at their best.

No amp/prep time.

Setting: Senate rotunda

Who wins?

Hero. Just better. Interesting arena tho.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jaina. Just better. Interesting arena tho.

I go with Tythy too, Jaina's good but not yet as good as her. Cool fight.

HoT

Jaina.

Jaina. Flashy as videogames are, they cannot compete with competent Skywalkers.

The HoT is probably the least flashy MC in swtor actually. And the most powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hero. Just better. Interesting arena tho.

Not sure

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Jaina. Flashy as videogames are, they cannot compete with competent Skywalkers.

I can be swayed if you post me kills for Jaina that are better than Scourge lol

Darth Caedus.

Even a weakened Caedus is still Caedus. He was probably still fighting as a 9 instead of his usual 9.5.

Hero hasn't beaten anyone impressive at all in terms of dueling, and Mara did better against Caedus (yeah there were circumstances) than Jaina. Its hard to place either of them skillfully.

Not sure still

One reason of many I cheer for Mara whenever I get the chance. The Batman of Star Wars she is.

Still, Jaina should be able to handle Hero well enough.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Even a weakened Caedus is still Caedus. He was probably still fighting as a 9 instead of his usual 9.5. You're vastly underrating how poor of a state he was in, thus undermining how great his Force reserves are and overrating Jaina's performance against him.

Originally posted by ILS
You're vastly underrating how poor of a state he was in, thus undermining how great his Force reserves are and overrating Jaina's performance against him.
He is not, missing arm was his only poor state, which he compensated by one-handed lightsaber style(which can be as effective as two-handed), unarmed combat and cunning offensive Force use. As of stomach wound, it only made him stronger.

Didn't he also have a shoulder wound? And probably a few others from their last fight and other shit that I can't recall?

Which arm was it that he lost? Was it his saber arm?

Originally posted by Angelalex242
One reason of many I cheer for Mara whenever I get the chance. The Batman of Star Wars she is.

Still, Jaina should be able to handle Hero well enough.

I don't see why. The Hero has just as good feats as her if not better in numerous aspects. Defeating Vitiate in the Dark Temple > beating a wounded Caedus imo. The Hero showed herself able to resist the Force powers of Vitiate and Sel Makor, both near godlike beings, in the heart of their power. Which is better than getting tossed around by Jacen non-stop. She's also blitzed Sith and torn through legions of elite troops in diminished capacity. She's basically the greatest swordsman of her time, with only the Wrath rivaling her, based on her beating Scourge, Praven, Angral and others, becoming Jedi Battlemaster and with numerous accolades of her being their greatest warrior and possessing legendary and unequalled martial skill.

I see no reason why the Hero couldn't have beaten Caedus in the same situation as Jaina.

He had been shot through the shoulder prior to anything, and it was noted that that alone was hindering him. Then, he had his arm taken off, followed by being stabbed through the stomach. Cut it however you want, the amount of strain that would be put on his body physically, and thus on his Force reserves to replenish himself, would be overwhelming for most beings. The only reason Jaina wasn't stomped by Caedus is because he was balancing his energy between fighting her and keeping himself from dying.

Even then it's worth noting that Caedus could've turned it into a stalemate if he wanted to.

Also true^

Originally posted by ILS
He had been shot through the shoulder prior to anything, and it was noted that that alone was hindering him. Then, he had his arm taken off, followed by being stabbed through the stomach. Cut it however you want, the amount of strain that would be put on his body physically, and thus on his Force reserves to replenish himself, would be overwhelming for most beings. The only reason Jaina wasn't stomped by Caedus is because he was balancing his energy between fighting her and keeping himself from dying.
Are we talking about first or second fight? Regardless, you assume here about how it affected him. Even in first fight Caedus one-shotted Jaina, when she cut off his arm. In second fight same thing - gut stub followed by Force blast and lightning. It's been established that pain amps Caedus, not other way around. If less injured Caedus is so much better why didn't he stomp Jaina before she cut-off his arm?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Even then it's worth noting that Caedus could've turned it into a stalemate if he wanted to.
What are you even talking about? He won first fight with lightning. He lost second fight and there is no way he could stalemate it.

Originally posted by Arhael
Are we talking about first or second fight? Regardless, you assume here about how it affected him. Even in first fight Caedus one-shotted Jaina, when she cut off his arm. In second fight same thing - gut stub followed by Force blast and lightning. It's been established that pain amps Caedus, not other way around. If less injured Caedus is so much better why didn't he stomp Jaina before she cut-off his arm?

She was being hugely amped.

I'm not making any assumptions; read the fights again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
She was being hugely amped.
Even if she was. Pain from his arm being cut off is what allowed him to defeat her. That was my point. And the amp you are talking about happened after Jaina was smashed by mandalorian corpse. He used a cunning move to defeat here. His most devastating Force attacks came out right after serious enjuries.

Originally posted by ILS
I'm not making any assumptions; read the fights again.
You assume Jacen was hampered in Force in final fight, good luck proving it. With same success I can assume that Jacen was hampered, when he fought Luke because Luke did a surprice attack at beginning and gave him internal organ wound right at beginning followed by serious concussion to the head.

Eh, Jacen hit her below her guard, I don't think he'd need any additional power from pain to have beaten her. Its more that he just outplayed her. And it's not that she only gets the amp after that point. We only get her perspective at that point, so we don't know when it started.


BTW, bare in mind that Jaina admits inferiority to people like Saba, Horn and others:

"You?" This came from the other end of the table, where Corran sat looking surprised and worried. "You're only a Jedi Knight."

"So is Jacen," Jaina replied, relying on a technicality-but knowing that it would work in her favor if anybody tried to argue that a Jedi Knight wasn't powerful enough to confront Caedus. "I know that you Masters-and several Jedi Knights-are more skilled in both Force and lightsaber than I am. But I'm his twin sister. I'll have advantages no one else will."

Like I said, the first bullet alone was hindering him physically. If I dedicated the time I could read the fights through and pick up the other text discussing his physical state, but I can't be arsed, so this will hopefully suffice:


Having common sense helps as well. Look at what happened with Plagueis when he was suffering heavy blood loss and organ damage - he spent lavishly on his reserves just to keep himself from passing into unconsciousness, which is why the maladian assassins found as much success as they did, as non-Force sensitives. And in fact, Jaina herself points out how powerful Caedus must be to be able to continue fighting at some point during the scene, regarding his power as far beyond hers because of this.

Just saying, pretending Caedus wasn't in an awful physical state in order to wank Jaina is just a fools errand.

Actually, Plagueis remarks after he's dying that he was going to "unleash hell" on them. He might've been able to do worse to them than that.

Jacen was slashed through the kidney from the get-go of his fight with Luke.

Caedus>Luke confirmed

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Jacen was slashed through the kidney from the get-go of his fight with Luke.

Caedus>Luke confirmed

Originally posted by Arhael
He lost second fight and there is no way he could stalemate it.
He could've dealt Jaina a killing blow just as she dealt him one, but he chose instead to reach out to Allana or something.

So why did this turn into whether Caedus could have killed Jaina or how powerfull Caedus was during their second fight? Isn't it about whether HoT could beat Jaina? I think it was, just sayen. Don't mean to butt in or anything but just pointing that out. Anyway, imo, I believe HoT would win in terms of saber combat. In terms of Force then Jaina definitely wins but I think she would have trouble keeping him/her off herself. Plus there's the HoT's Force Leap and precision with saber throws I doubt that she can handle his/her full power.

What's Jaina got that indicates she'd beat the Hero in the Force? Vitiate couldn't. Even a weakened Vitiate massively outclasses Jaina with the Force.

People are arguing over the Caedus thing because people find Caedus to be immensely skilled and powerful, so how legitimate Jaina's showings against him were determines how skilled and powerful she is in turn.

Originally posted by Arhael
You assume Jacen was hampered in Force in final fight, good luck proving it. With same success I can assume that Jacen was hampered, when he fought Luke because Luke did a surprice attack at beginning and gave him internal organ wound right at beginning followed by serious concussion to the head.

She had to struggle just breaking his choke on a Mando, and she admitted weakness to him in the force iirc before their first fight.

Originally posted by ILS
Like I said, the first bullet alone was hindering him physically. If I dedicated the time I could read the fights through and pick up the other text discussing his physical state, but I can't be arsed, so this will hopefully suffice:


Having common sense helps as well. Look at what happened with Plagueis when he was suffering heavy blood loss and organ damage - he spent lavishly on his reserves just to keep himself from passing into unconsciousness, which is why the maladian assassins found as much success as they did, as non-Force sensitives. And in fact, Jaina herself points out how powerful Caedus must be to be able to continue fighting at some point during the scene, regarding his power as far beyond hers because of this.

Just saying, pretending Caedus wasn't in an awful physical state in order to wank Jaina is just a fools errand.
Plagueis case doesn't help your cause at all. When Force users are on a bring of death, desire to survive makes them more capable than normally. Would totally make sense that Plagueis was hampered, however, his Force attacks potency did not indicate that, instead his Force wave anything but atomized his attackers and he could punch through armor with bare hands. Those are his best showings.

Assuming that Jaina wouldn't be able to resist Caedus' Force attacks, if not the
lucky gut stab at beginning is even more fools errand.


No, he couldn't. She siced through a tendon of his leg. Realizing that with only one working arm and foot there is no way for him to survive he used his last seconds to reach out to Alana.


Don't see your point. We know that she is below him in the Force. Still competent enough to resist/tank his direct Force attacks as demonstrated, when she tanked his Force blast, blocked lightning and prevent him from snapping her neck with a choke.

Did he choke her in her second duel? The only time I remember she broke his choke was when he was strangling Bobba's granddaughter?

tython

Originally posted by carthage
Did he choke her in her second duel? The only time I remember she broke his choke was when he was strangling Bobba's granddaughter?
You must be confusing that fight with some other. Caedus never choked Mirta, he simply knocked her out with TK. Jaina at that moment was hiding her presence in the Force in order to take him out with sniper rifle.

In second fight he tried to snap Jaina's neck the same way as Isolder's. She moved along with the direction he twisted her head and countered with a spin kick. Text actually doesn't specify, if that Force grip was choking her, I would assume yes because it would be stupid not to try such an effective technique.

Also, from first fight:
"Despite the pellet wound his shoulder had suffered earlier, Caedus did not hesitate to activate his own blade. His pain would only fuel his power, and if he did not attack the sniper, he knew the sniper would attack him."

Ones again Caedus acknowledges that injuries empower him, not hamper.

Jaina wins, HoT simply does not have the skill to beat someone as heavily trained, experienced and refined as Jaina Solo.

Jaina's overrated. She admits inferiority to the council, the masters as well as several Knights or her era.

A humble Jedi, who knew.

The Council agrees with her. The whole scene is them arguing about why they're more qualified to kill Jacen then her.

Both of these Jedi would qualify as being overrated tbh.

The Hero of Tython.