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How far does the strongest sith in generations get?

Warm-up: The Inquisitor
1. AotC Anakin
2. Darth Thanaton
3. SoD Maul
4. Count Dooku
5. Starkiller

Boss: Darth Vader (all feats apply.)

Edit: All fights take place on The Leviathan Command Bridge.

Falls at 3.

5 or clears.

Assuming Nox can be cut down by a lightsaber, she's down at 3. If not, then Starkiller kills her.

Definitely four, maybe three.

Assuming Maul could withstand Nox's TP, FLS and Force Drain, which he can't.

Starkiller does far better but I am not convinced he could overcome the combined powers Nox has. I mean do remember Nox gets stronger after Act 3. Growing closer to immortality in SoR and refining their powers considerably.

SK or Vader plaster her guts all over the field with telekinesis

Not at all. Nox is more powerful than Maul, but not by enough of a margin to outright dominate him, and he's extremely resilient as well. He's more skilled with a blade and he can kill her with that, provided she can die that way. With the right application of powers (Drain/Lightning spam etc.), she might get past him, though.

Starkiller is just more powerful than Nox is. There's no way Nox can outmatch Starkiller's TK or Lightning, and his Barrier is probably sufficient to repel anything Nox sends at him. Starkiller's dueling edge just adds insult to injury. Nox is virtually outclassed there.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
How far does the strongest sith in generations get?

Lulz. Also, why is someone who's Nox already defeated on this list? Anyway stops at Maul or Dooku.

Starkiller has absolutely zero experience with Sorcery and has no counter for it, she can mindrape and drain him to death, not to mention teleport at will. Even if he does considerable damage Nox's ghosts can revitalize her and her defenses are extremely advanced to boot.

Nox is also a highly skilled duelist, contrary to popular belief inquisitors don't abandon lightsaber skill, they master those arts as well. She should certainly be skilled enough not to get eviscerated as you assume.

All of which is irrelevant when we have someone capable of withstanding Dread Masters, etc.

Originally posted by AncientPower
All of which is irrelevant when we have someone capable of withstanding Dread Masters, etc.
Not really. The Dread were ****ing over the protags all over the place during their raid on the Dread Palace.

Show me Nox mindraping anybody of Starkiller's class in battle, and lol @ her Draining a more powerful character to death.

Show me Nox being able to just call upon her Ghosts at any time to recover from fatal injuries. That's a No Limits Fallacy taken to space, lol.

Nobody said Nox would get eviscerated in sabers or that she abandons saber combat, so that's a red herring, and regardless of her skill level (of which I'm perfectly aware), she's still not up to par with Starkiller.

How about the dialogue that says Nox can't die while the ghosts are bound?

GA-GA-GAME MECHANICS!

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How about the dialogue that says Nox can't die while the ghosts are bound?

Hmm... should've taken on Revan, Vitiate etc. by herself then.

Since when did raw power define mental defense? Starkiller is filled to the brim with negative thoughts and nightmares, making him prime real estate for someone who could withstand and overcome the combined telepathic assault of five Dread Masters.

When she clearly summons them to overcome Thanaton's FLS assault and then dominates him? That was fairly obvious tbh, the Mother Machine arc was all about gaining total control over her own mind and dominating the spirits with her willpower (Just happens to be another TP feat).

Being a master of the saberstaff and logically defensive techniques at least should afford her time to press a Force contest or teleport away.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Since when did raw power define mental defense? Starkiller is filled to the brim with negative thoughts and nightmares, making him prime real estate for someone who could withstand and overcome the combined telepathic assault of five Dread Masters.

When she clearly summons them to overcome Thanaton's FLS assault and then dominates him? That was fairly obvious tbh, the Mother Machine arc was all about gaining total control over her own mind and dominating the spirits with her willpower (Just happens to be another TP feat).

Being a master of the saberstaff and logically defensive techniques at least should afford her time to press a Force contest or teleport away.

You still haven't shown me Nox mindwrecking anybody in combat.

Thanaton doesn't compare to Starkiller in power, so that doesn't count.

Being a "master" of a weapon or form means the square root of jack sh!t when you're up against Vader-tier swordsmen.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Hmm... should've taken on Revan, Vitiate etc. by herself then.

The two most powerful of the TOR era whom can both eliminate her host advantage. Not to mention she isn't an imbecile, she is a calculatingly intelligent Dark Councillor of course she wouldn't take on two obscenely powerful Force Users solo.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The two most powerful of the TOR era whom can both eliminate her host advantage. Not to mention she isn't an imbecile, she is a calculatingly intelligent Dark Councillor of course she wouldn't take on two obscenely powerful Force Users solo.

I was joking, lol. They're not the two most powerful of the TOR era if you're counting the Ones, Abeloth, the Force Priestesses and the Bedlam Spirits

Seriously, though, Revan isn't top 2 in the TOR era.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Seriously, though, Revan isn't top 2 in the TOR era.
Eh, besides like Soa and those weird ass galactic entities, he is.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Eh, besides like Soa and those weird ass galactic entities, he is.

Why would you exclude them?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Why would you exclude them?
Because by the time Revan is around again in SOR, they are all like dead or trapped.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because by the time Revan is around again in SOR, they are all like dead.

The TOR era encompasses the entirety of the game and the decades before and after.

Also, Soa dies after Revan's Foundry appearance.

I thought you said Soa was "shit."

Originally posted by SunRazer
Also, Soa dies after Revan's Foundry appearance.
No shit, Sherlock. That's why I said "in SOR," lmfao.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No shit, Sherlock. That's why I said "in SOR," lmfao.

I know. Revan appears before SoR, Sherlock.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You still haven't shown me her mindwrecking anybody in combat.

Thanaton doesn't compare to Starkiller in power, so that doesn't count.

Being a "master" of a weapon or form means the square root of jack sh!t when you're up against Vader-tier swordsmen.

Arbitrary definitions of telepathy much? Overcoming Dread Masters, top tier telepathy masters in a direct willpower contest is greater than anything Starkiller has ever done mentally.

Starkiller has no defense against sorcery, Nox's area of absolute mastery. A fact you ignore repeatedly, Nox can dominate him with her overwhelmingly strong sorcery techniques.

Which is irrelevant against someone who can teleport at will and has Force Powers dedicated to debilitation and disorientation.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I thought you said Soa was "shit."

He's still above Revan... perhaps.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I know. Revan appears before SoR, Sherlock.
Hence why I basically specifically said SOR Revan. Stop being retarded.

Soa and the likes are entities, I stated Force Users of which Vitiate and Revan are the two most powerful of the day.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hence why I basically specifically said SOR Revan. Stop being retarded.

Yes, and there's no reason it has to be SoR Revan.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yes, and there's no reason it has to be SoR Revan.
http://media1.giphy.com/media/6OWIl75ibpuFO/giphy.gif

Profiled.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Arbitrary definitions of telepathy much? Overcoming Dread Masters, top tier telepathy masters in a direct willpower contest is greater than anything Starkiller has ever done mentally.

Starkiller had no defense against sorcery, Nox's area of absolute mastery, a fact you ignore releatedly, Nox can dominate him with her overwhelmingly strong sorcery techniques.

Which is irrelevant against someone who can teleport at will and has Force Powers dedicated to debilitation and disorientation.

1. Right, so I take that as a concession that Nox won't be using TP-oriented powers mid-combat.

2. Starkiller is just the superior Force user, which means he won't be dominated, and what kind of Sorcery do you reckon Nox would use? Then you can show me Nox using it in combat.

3. If you think Nox will be hopping all over the place with her "teleportation techniques", then you're wrong.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
GA-GA-GAME MECHANICS!
Dialogue is the best type of game mechanic. It's practically story.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://media1.giphy.com/media/6OWIl75ibpuFO/giphy.gif

Profiled.

How to piss Ant off.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lulz.

Play on words of a quote tbh

And I still laughed at you. http://r27.imgfast.net/users/2716/29/35/50/smiles/1751224631.png

Your smilies don't excuse the wrath's inferiority

We can fight, tbh.

Besides, the Wrath says he is the most powerful being alive besides the Emperor, therefore he is peerless. Like do you even?

I work those question marks hard bro

gimme quote wrath is a monster

"I'm going to eat you raw."

Where do you place Wrath tbh Dooku level

?

I place all TOR protags around that yeah, with the HoT being the superior to all of them, and everyone else being about the same.

So dominating five spirits with willpower, having her mind empowered by the Mother Machine and overcoming a combined Dread Master telepathic assault isn't enough to conclusively show she is far stronger mentally than Starkiller? LOL.

Starkiller might be stronger than Nox, which is certainly debateable. Nox being able to:

1.Drain life essences.
2.Easily deflect the Force Lightning of the 'supremely powerful' Darth Thanaton.
3.Teleport or camouflage at will.
4.Imbue herself with the 'immense powers' of her spirits to summon massive Force energy.

Is highly likely to be far more than Starkiller is able to overcome with his supposedly superior strength in the Force.

ehh.

I have Nox>HoT=Wrath>/=Barsen'thor. The Wrath is just less uberhyped than Nox/HoT, but he's probably killed more dark council or dark council-level enemies throughout his arc, aka Wyellett/Karr/mostly decimus/mostly ekkage/Makoriate/amped! Baras. I give Nox the edge due to sheer overwhelming raw power.

Eh. HoT is the obvious posterboy and powerhouse for this game.
Wrath is hyped, a lot, but most it is after the storyline proper, so it's a lot easier to gloss over.Everyone's kissing ass, calling you shit like "the heart of the Empire." I hate hype though, so I'm all about those feats. Nox would be an obvious choice for most powerful protag if it weren't for her track record and lack of expertise naturally when compared to Thanaton. Still the later showings definitely make me think Nox is on the level with the Wrath, each having their respective edges. The Barsen'thor is kind of meh, but I'm charitable, plus they obviously had to be powerful enough to form a Nexus on death.
Originally posted by AncientPower
So dominating five spirits with willpower, having her mind empowered by the Mother Machine and overcoming a combined Dread Master telepathic assault isn't enough to conclusively show she is far stronger mentally than Starkiller? LOL.

Starkiller might be stronger than Nox, which is certainly debateable. Nox being able to:

1.Drain life essences.
2.Easily deflect the Force Lightning of the 'supremely powerful' Darth Thanaton.
3.Teleport or camouflage at will.
4.Imbue herself with the 'immense powers' of her spirits to summon massive Force energy.

Is highly likely to be far more than Starkiller is able to overcome with his supposedly superior strength in the Force.

Your TORfanboyism is stronk, tbh

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Eh. HoT is the obvious posterboy and powerhouse for this game.

tbh you are the obvious posterboy and powerhouse for the game, Knight or Warrior or Smuggler or otherwise.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Wrath is hyped, a lot, but most it is after the storyline proper, so it's a lot easier to gloss over.Everyone's kissing ass, calling you shit like "the heart of the Empire." I hate hype though, so I'm all about those feats. Nox would be an obvious choice for most powerful protag if it weren't for her track record and lack of expertise naturally when compared to Thanaton. Still the later showings definitely make me think Nox is on the level with the Wrath, each having their respective edges. The Barsen'thor is kind of meh, but I'm charitable, plus they obviously had to be powerful enough to form a Nexus on death.

Hype can be important tbh, and feats are just as inconsistent/incomparable (except in this case since its solely SWTOR, so meh.) Sure she lacks sheer expertise compared to Thanaton, but she's probably seen just as much combat as the rest of the protagonists. I have all the protags on the same level, but in general I'd give Nox the overall edge.

EDIT: And you know Nox wins this fight, b!tch.

My opinion>yours because my opinion>yours.

And nah.

noisseconc detpecca xoN < ToH

dna haey

Originally posted by SunRazer
You still haven't shown me Nox mindwrecking anybody in combat.

B]

I have seen nothing suggesting Starkiller even compares in the mental department. He's been manipulated with ease through the series.

Nox can mentally dominate an entire squad of Sith Assassins, her TP is well above Starkillers. She can also mindtrick a guy whose mind is strong enough to maintain his consciousnesses in 3 separate bodies at once.

Also 'Thor is just as impressive as the other protags imo. She has crazy TK feats and insane wins under her belt.

Him Neph, him.

You mean his.

Originally posted by SWLEGEND
5 or clears.

Lol

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Definitely four, maybe three.

Oh no, Carthage the village imbecile, has compared me to someone else for actually respecting characters outside of the PT medium instead of trolling any support for them like an infant on Call of Duty.

*concedes*

Considering I've shit on you in the last 3 "Debates" I've had with you, I'll just take your bravado as sniveling

You have done absolutely nothing of the sort, your only basis for argument is superior exposure of feats in the saga era which you pass off as victory. Your debating tactics are actually awful and basic.

The fact is that 'Killer has demonstrated raw power in vast excess of Nox.

Yes and no, he has better TK displays certainly but he has never translated that TK supremacy into combative applications. Atleast not nearly to the degree suggested by Cartman.

So your argument is that somehow 'Killer is unable to bring epic TK against organic enemies as he is inorganic matter?

No, that TKing powerful Force Users and dominating them, let alone ragdolling them is another matter entirely given that the Force itself is resisting said application.

Starkiller's TK by that logic should dominate Vader and Sidious, hell even Shaak Ti. But he didn't because he couldn't.

Or that the characters in question were powerful enough to resist, which isn't proof that Nox is.

Kinda like how Revan is unable to telekinetically dominate non-Force sensitive fighters. Or how Vitiate is unable to TK the Hero's astromech.

If Vitiate can't TK a droid, can he TK Obi-Wan Kenobi? If Obi-Wan can TK droids, is he better than Vitiate?

Your position is self defeating. Maybe it's just better to concede the point?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes and no, he has better TK displays certainly but he has never translated that TK supremacy into combative applications. Atleast not nearly to the degree suggested by Cartman.
That's an insult to Cartman tbh

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's an insult to Cartman tbh

An insult to Cartman would be comparing him to Darth Bane

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Or that the characters in question were powerful enough to resist, which isn't proof that Nox is.

Kinda like how Revan is unable to telekinetically dominate non-Force sensitive fighters. Or how Vitiate is unable to TK the Hero's astromech.

If Vitiate can't TK a droid, can he TK Obi-Wan Kenobi? If Obi-Wan can TK droids, is he better than Vitiate?

Your position is self defeating. Maybe it's just better to concede the point?

Vitiate disintegrated T3-M4 mother****er. estahuh

T3 wishes he was R2 tbh.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh no, Carthage the village imbecile, has compared me to someone else for actually respecting characters outside of the PT medium instead of trolling any support for them like an infant on Call of Duty.

*concedes*

Keep dickriding TOR Legend Junior

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Or that the characters in question were powerful enough to resist, which isn't proof that Nox is.

Kinda like how Revan is unable to telekinetically dominate non-Force sensitive fighters. Or how Vitiate is unable to TK the Hero's astromech.

If Vitiate can't TK a droid, can he TK Obi-Wan Kenobi? If Obi-Wan can TK droids, is he better than Vitiate?

Your position is self defeating. Maybe it's just better to concede the point?

Darth Nox is much more powerful than Shaak Ti, whom Starkiller failed to telekinetically demolish as is being suggested. My stance isn't self-defeating, you are merely misrepresenting it.

Very powerful Force users slaughtering other very powerful Force users just doesn't happen, at least only on very rare occasions.

My stance is that whilst Starkiller is more skilled and has stronger telekinesis. It's effects are marginalised by Nox's defenses, ability to regen and her spirits. On the other end, Nox has ways to escape close quarters and to attack him with magics that he can't counter.

Starkiller is more powerful over-all but as usual Nox can stack the hax deck.

Originally posted by carthage
Keep dickriding TOR Legend Junior

You are one of the (if not the) most aggressively biased and trollish 'debaters' in this section. You playing the bias card is about as hypocritical as it gets. However if you wish to continue destroying any respect you might otherwise garner by throwing petty insults around, be my guest.

To be fair, you played the bias card too and it's equally hypocritical. Stones, glass houses.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Nox is much more powerful than Shaak Ti, whom Starkiller failed to telekinetically demolish as is being suggested. My stance isn't self-defeating, you are merely misrepresenting it.

Very powerful Force users slaughtering other very powerful Force users just doesn't happen, at least only on very rare occasions.

My stance is that whilst Starkiller is more skilled and has stronger telekinesis. It's effects are marginalised by Nox's defenses, ability to regen and her spirits. On the other end, Nox has ways to escape close quarters and to attack him with magics that he can't counter.

Starkiller is more powerful over-all but as usual Nox can stack the hax deck.

'killer struggled immensely with Shaak early on. That he was later able to handily defeat an even more powerful foe in the form of Vader indicates a substantial increase in ability between start and finish of the game.

He also struggled with a Shadow Guard.

Of course, but then again Vader wasn't giving his all in any of their battles or he would have won, as Sam Witwer explained. It's not a real victory nor an indication of equality let alone superiority.

Starkiller doesn't slaughter Kota, Paratus, Ti, Brood or Vader. He defeats them certainly but nothing like domination as claimed by Carthage. He isn't going to make Nox an exception to his track record here and he has to or Nox's advantages steal the win.

He's more powerful and he does indeed have greater TK but Nox has too many advantages and loopholes

Originally posted by AncientPower
Of course, but then again Vader wasn't giving his all in any of their battles or he would have won, as Sam Witwer explained. It's not a real victory nor an indication of equality let alone superiority.

When was this said? mmm

Originally posted by AncientPower
Starkiller doesn't slaughter Kota, Paratus, Ti, Brood or Vader. He defeats them certainly but nothing like domination as claimed by Carthage. He isn't going to make Nox an exception to his track record here and he has to or Nox's advantages steal the win.

He's more powerful and he does indeed have greater TK but Nox has too many advantages and loopholes

Problem is, as some often point out, perhaps the ability of such named individuals to stand against SWTOR characters'Killer is an endorsement of their own prowess and not an indictment of his own.

That has been floating around a long while now, I will have to check for the actual statement.

Giving Starkiller immense problems in a fight is not some sudden boost to their cred, Darth Nox has greater feats than any of them in the first place.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Giving Starkiller immense problems in a fight is not some sudden boost to their cred, Darth Nox has greater feats than any of them in the first place.

So giving an enormously powerful character problems in a fight isn't a "boost to cred" for the fighter in question? So you're telling me I won't be able to look through your any of your arguments and find you using similar logic for SWTOR/ancient characters?

It is not when said characters have their power pretty concretely set already. It is also quite irrelevant when Nox is their superior in basically everything but saber skill.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It is not when said characters have their power pretty concretely set already. It is also quite irrelevant when Nox is their superior in basically everything but saber skill.

I see. So if a character performs at a level that one personally finds to be exceeding their previously established abilities, one must disregard the conclusion that that character is in fact more powerful than previously thought?

No, merely that the supposedly far more powerful character isn't quite as dominant as depicted.

And, of course, you have absolutely no problem ascribing this logic to characters that predate the movie era, right? Like SWTOR, KOTOR, TOTJ?

No, because said characters have feats that make them undoubtedly powerful enough on their own. You are unfortunately missing the point here, Starkiller can supposedly 'paste' Nox in a Force contest. Yet Starkiller has never accomplished anything even remotely in the realm of such domination to lesser characters.

My stance is far from incredulous here, Starkiller is certainly more skilled and is the stronger. However Nox has the esoteric mastery and personal endurance to circumvent that normally crucial advantage and steal a win with hax.

Nah, I understand your argument well enough. I just don't agree with it.

That said, you can expect that I'll be hanging you with your own remarks in the near future. When I do, I'll be expecting a very gracious concession since you're obviously not a hypocrite or unduly biased towards more ancient characters and eras.

Clears.

Stops at 4

I would say Nox edges Dooku and... well if by "Starkiller" we are referring to the clone from TFU II then I could see Nox TP-ing him with little difficulty. Keep in mind this is the same unstable individual who would not strike down a robot who took the mere form of Juno, and if memory serves he knew they were only training robots to begin with so.... yeah. That is/was only a completely visual trickery as well mind you, unless someone wishes to wildly speculate Vader was TP-ing Starkiller during the training, but that is at their discretion.

I am going to stay neutral and away from the argument as to whether that would/could swing the victory in Nox's favor though, as I feel Starkiller is a great deal more 'powerful' in the raw power sense. But it is anyone's guess if victory for Nox would be as simple as making themselves appear as Juno, wait for the hesitation, and deliver a fully-amped blast of lightning-****ery to the unprepared Starkiller. *shrug*