Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

His Soresu is the best of the Jedi Order.

We know he'd last longer then Tiin, Kolar, and Fisto, but how long could he last exactly?

10 seconds

As long as Sidious wants lol

Not long haha, couple minutes at most

Under 1 second.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Under 1 second. Unless you believe that Fisto is above Kenobi.

Or that Tiin, Kolar, and Fisto would be able to beat him, which they wouldn't. They'd find out very quickly that they are outmatched.

Sidious raises his hand, Obi-Wan dies. The end.

Even if he goes pure sabers, the duel would be so fast it'd still last less than a second.

lmfao ^

Revan and Vitiate had a whole duel in a few seconds, with Revan running back and forth across a large room a few times. Sidious is faster than Revan and Obi-Wan is seriously not putting up close to the fight Revan did with Vitiate, so he'd get to Obi-Wan and overwhelm him in a fraction of the time.

Kenobi would probably last a few seconds.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan and Vitiate had a whole duel in a few seconds, with Revan running back and forth across a large room a few times. Sidious is faster than Revan and Obi-Wan is seriously not putting up close to the fight Revan did with Vitiate, so he'd get to Obi-Wan and overwhelm him in a fraction of the time.
tbh my bad, I thought this was sabers only.

Give Kenobi anywhere from 10-15 seconds.

Originally posted by ILS
As long as Sidious wants lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious raises his hand, Obi-Wan dies. The end.

Even if he goes pure sabers, the duel would be so fast it'd still last less than a second. Even Mace and Dooku on the same team wouldn't instantly beat Kenobi.

But Sidious would.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
But Sidious would. Are you ****ing kidding me?

Ok, what leads you to believe that Kenobi, who has the best Soresu in the history of the Jedi Order, would instantly go down?

The same guy who dueled evenly with Anakin and was able to outduel Savage and Maul for a brief period.

His ability to 'doo ze soresu' won't help much when his windpipe collapses and he's sent flying out of a window. That's my reasoning.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Even Mace and Dooku on the same team wouldn't instantly beat Kenobi.

A) Yes they would, with TK

B) Sidious is faster than them

C) Whether it's instant or not doesn't mean it'd be longer than a second. As I said, whole battles can take place in that amount of time.

All out? The fight is two hits long. Sidious hits Kenobi, Kenobi hits the window and falls to his death.

Sabers only? Kenobi's lifespan is still a matter of seconds. While true he's better then the rest of the B team, he's also by himself instead of having the B team slow Sidious down by forcing him to weed the wimps. Kit only lasted longer then the other two because Sidious decided to kill them first.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
All out? The fight is two hits long. Sidious hits Kenobi, Kenobi hits the window and falls to his death.

Sabers only? Kenobi's lifespan is still a matter of seconds. While true he's better then the rest of the B team, he's also by himself instead of having the B team slow Sidious down by forcing him to weed the wimps. Kit only lasted longer then the other two because Sidious decided to kill them first. No, its because Fisto was just that good.

Whether Tiin or Kolar were there is irrelevant.

I feel like this fight would last longer than a few seconds. Obi-wan isn't a total noob. We've seen duels in which one of the opponents is completely superior to the other in every aspect, yet still manages to put up a fight, even if it may be short. I'd say he would probably last a minute before he gets totally destroyed.

A serious Sids could kill Kenobi with a simple gesture.

Some of the posts in this thread are depressing. There are no words to describe how badly Sidious would destroy Obi-wan and he could do it under 1 second.

He'll last for a few moments until Sidious ragdolls him.

Originally posted by Rebel95
couple minutes at most

LMFAO

Originally posted by Trocity
LMFAO
Why is that funny

Dude, MINUTES? The vast majority of COMPETITIVE Star Wars fights don't last that long.

A few seconds later than how long it took for Fisto to die

Why do people mention Fisto like he faced Sidious alone?

Because the ROTS novel shows us that he did, indeed, contend with Palpatine for at least a couple of seconds alongside Windu.

Kit's legit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because the ROTS novel shows us that he did, indeed, contend with Palpatine for at least a couple of seconds alongside Windu. In the movie he took 3 or 4 hits, I think.

Originally posted by Trocity
Dude, MINUTES? The vast majority of COMPETITIVE Star Wars fights don't last that long.
True lol

Their blind lives meant nothing now. None of them. Because ahead, on
the vast cliff face of the Senate Office Building, one window spat lightning
into the rain to echo the lightning of the storm outside-but this lightning
was the color of clashing lightsabers.

Green fans, sheets of purple-

And crimson flame.

He was too late.

The green fire faded and winked out; now the lightning was only purple
and red.

---

NGL, I was impressed by Fisto's performance against Palpatine.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because the ROTS novel shows us that he did, indeed, contend with Palpatine for at least a couple of seconds alongside Windu. Exactly.

Also, considering how fast Sidious was moving at the time, I doubt it lasted a couple seconds.

There are several depictions of Kit's performance against Palpatine. In Yoda's vision and in the comic version, he was killed with a single strike. In the movie he deflected a couple of blows. The novel's retelling is the outlier here, tbh.

" gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall."

If Dooku can do that so easily, I shudder to think how Obi will fare against someone a clear tier above the good Count.

Not selling Dooku short - he's damn near the best in the PT, but "near" just isn't good enough, for either him or Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious raises his hand, Obi-Wan dies. The end.


This.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if he goes pure sabers, the duel would be so fast it'd still last less than a second.


Huh? In Novels perhaps (where Hyperbole can be claimed)). In Visual mediums that's never been depicted as far as I'm aware.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
] In Visual mediums that's never been depicted as far as I'm aware. You expect them to move that fast in visual medium?

Originally posted by Sinious
You expect them to move that fast in visual medium?


Yeah I suppose special effects haven't reached that level yet where they can depict combat at super speed

Originally posted by Nephthys
Under 1 second.

Force choke takes at least this long, so yes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan and Vitiate had a whole duel in a few seconds, with Revan running back and forth across a large room a few times. No, they didn't. Context is key.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I suppose special effects haven't reached that level yet where they can depict combat at super speed

Except I'm 99% sure it was confirmed that they massively slowed down the combat speeds of the prequels and even TCW for obvious viewer reasons.

I imagine Lucas' original vision of Jedi reflexes is far better resembled in OCW and the movie novels.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except I'm 99% sure it was confirmed that they massively slowed down the combat speeds of the prequels and even TCW for obvious viewer reasons.

I imagine Lucas' original vision of Jedi reflexes is far better resembled in OCW and the movie novels.


Slowed down for the movies is one thing. I know Darth Sidious vs Mace Windu wasn't as slow as depicted by Ian and Sam. They wanted to go Practical for the Saber fights in the movies. I get that.

However there's no excuse for TCW.

In any case, going from what we've been shown to "they do hundreds of moves in 1 second" is just seriously stretching, especially given people like Pre-Vizsla going toe to toe with the likes of Darth Maul.

Smallville used to depict that sort of speed all the time, so I don't see why at least TCW couldn't. Well actually I know why. Because Jedi/Sith simply aren't that fast. I mean they are fast, but Spider-Man or Blade type fast. Not Flash, Quicksilver or Superman type fast, which is what people are suggesting with entire fights happening in under a second.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I suppose special effects haven't reached that level yet where they can depict combat at super speed

Your mistake is in assuming Lucas is a talented director.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No, they didn't. Context is key.

Imma let Ant have this one. :I

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your mistake is in assuming Lucas is a talented director.





He is. People b**** about him using too much CGI, then they b**** more when he goes practical for the Saber fights.


In any case my point rests on more than just the live action movie. There was also TCW. And there's the Cut Scenes from the Games as well.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Slowed down for the movies is one thing. I know Darth Sidious vs Mace Windu wasn't as slow as depicted by Ian and Sam. They wanted to go Practical for the Saber fights in the movies. I get that.

However there's no excuse for TCW.

In any case, going from what we've been shown to "they do hundreds of moves in 1 second" is just seriously stretching, especially given people like Pre-Vizsla going toe to toe with the likes of Darth Maul.

Smallville used to depict that sort of speed all the time, so I don't see why at least TCW couldn't. Well actually I know why. Because Jedi/Sith simply aren't that fast. I mean they are fast, but Spider-Man or Blade type fast. Not Flash, Quicksilver or Superman type fast, which is what people are suggesting with entire fights happening in under a second. Lol, Force sensitives of their caliber are supposed to move too fast for the standard human eye to see.

Does it need to be explained why that would make for bad entertainment?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He is. People b**** about him using too much CGI, then they b**** more when he goes practical for the Saber fights.


In any case my point rests on more than just the live action movie. There was also TCW. And there's the Cut Scenes from the Games as well.

Oh man, you're totally right bro. I guess the movie characters are just pathetically slow compared to the rest of the mythos. Johun blitzes Sidious GG.

Lucas did show that Jedi had superspeed in TPM and Sidious blitzing the B team makes literally no sense unless either he's moving at superspeed or they were inexplicably stricken braindead.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Imma let Ant have this one. :I I'll provide the context so you can draw you're own conclusions:

Revan's astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi's lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds.

It's only referring the above paragraph, not to the entirety of the conflict that takes place over separate paragraphs, sections, chapters etc.

Basically Ant can't read.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh man, you're totally right bro. I guess the movie characters are just pathetically slow compared to the rest of the mythos.


Where did I even hint they were slow?


Originally posted by Nephthys
Lucas did show that Jedi had superspeed in TPM and Sidious blitzing the B team makes literally no sense unless either he's moving at superspeed or they were inexplicably stricken braindead.


Again where did I even hint they don't have super speed?

It's your "entire fights in 1 second" I have an issue with, given the entire TCW series never depicted or even hinted at such a thing. And given people like Pre-Vizsla go toe to toe with Darth Maul (confirmed as one of the deadliest Sith in history in both the old and new canon).

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol, Force sensitives of their caliber are supposed to move too fast for the standard human eye to see.


And yet Vizsla could clearly see Maul.

Jango Fett could clearly see Kenobi.


Originally posted by Beniboybling
Does it need to be explained why that would make for bad entertainment?


You telling me Invisibe Speed has never been depicted on screen in live action or in animation? Lol

I suggest you watch a Superman movie. Or Days of Future Past. Or just an episode of The Flash or Smallville.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'll provide the context so you can draw you're own conclusions:

Revan's astromech launched a jet of flame at the Emperor, freeing Revan, who collapsed to the ground. In retaliation, the Emperor disintegrated the offending droid, strode over to where Revan lay, and picked the vanquished Jedi's lightsaber up off the floor.

It all happened in the space of only a few seconds.

It's only referring the above paragraph, not to the entirety of the conflict that takes place over separate paragraphs, sections, chapters etc.

Basically Ant can't read.
To be fair, I haven't actually seen Ant argue this. It was Ancient. Not saying he hasn't, but still.

I've argued that given the indication that said action lasted only a few seconds then the entire battle would itself only have lasted a good 30 seconds tops.

Ant has once or twice argued that said statement could indicate Revan vs Vitiate as a whole would've been similarly fast.

You argued the entire battle happened in a few seconds to wank Revan and Vitiate's speed. On more than one occasion.
For reference:
Originally posted by AncientPower
Given that Revan and Vitiate waged an entire battle in three or four (definition of 'a few') seconds. Which included:

1.Revan charges.
2.Vitiate knocks him back with a Force wave.
3.Revan charges at a slower pace.
4.Vitiate attacks him with his will.
5.Revan counters with Force Purity knocking Vitiate over.
6.Revan charges Vitiate down.
7.Vitiate rolls over and blasts Revan with energy.
8.Revan intercepts it with his blade.
9.Vitiate fires three more in succession.
10.Revan deflects the third into Vitiate's chest.
11.Vitiate gets pissed, stands up and then summons his power.
12.Vitiate unleashes an FLS which Revan attempts to Tutaminis.
13.Revan holds this off.

I will request that you prove Plagueis can move faster than doing all of that in 3 or 4 seconds let alone blitz past it. Or I must assume you are trolling and/or have no argument and accept your unspoken concession on the matter.

Valkorion wins.

Yeh.. because y'know, given how that part lasted 3 seconds and the rest of their battle wasn't that much bigger then it was undoubtedly seconds. The entire battle as a whole was certainly less than a minute long and was -doing the theoretical math- about 30 seconds.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
To be fair, I haven't actually seen Ant argue this. It was Ancient. Not saying he hasn't, but still. Yah it's in his respect thread:

The entire battle between Revan and Emperor Vitiate, including the aftermath, all happened in only a few seconds. This included crossing a 120 foot walkway twice, releasing pulses of energy, defending against immense lightning attacks, and the destruction of T3-M4.

"It all happened in the space of only a few seconds."

―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah I suppose special effects haven't reached that level yet where they can depict combat at super speed Obi-wan managed to hit almost 20 strikes per second in one fight and there are characters much faster than him. Do you really want them to be depicted that fast? The speed we saw in the last movie is pretty good imo. Perhaps it can be a bit faster but if they overdid it, it would look ridiculous and if they made them move as fast as they actually are, we wouldn't even be able to perceive them. So its not about special effects.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You telling me Invisibe Speed has never been depicted on screen in live action or in animation? Lol

I suggest you watch a Superman movie. Or Days of Future Past. Or just an episode of The Flash or Smallville. No, I'm asking you whether you'd be satisifed if every importantly lightsaber duel ever visually depicted in Star Wars was done so invisibly.

"What's you're favourite lightsaber duel."

"Lol, don't know, can't see any."

You see my point?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Where did I even hint they were slow?

Again where did I even hint they don't have super speed?

It's your "entire fights in 1 second" I have an issue with, given the entire TCW series never depicted or even hinted at such a thing. And given people like Pre-Vizsla go toe to toe with Darth Maul (confirmed as one of the deadliest Sith in history in both the old and new canon).

You're arguing they don't move at superhuman speeds where they can perform dozens of actions in a second. They can.

The TCW series never depicted that because they didn't depict superspeed. We know that Maul can move faster than the human eye can see and various characters can move so fast they appear to be in multiple places at once or wielding a dozen lightsabers. Leneer was experiencing seconds as minutes or something. Vizsla can keep up with Maul partially because Maul was likely holding back and partially because non-force sensitives can reach superhuman (by our standards) levels in star wars.

Originally posted by Sinious
Obi-wan managed to hit almost 20 strikes per second in one fight

Nah.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Nah. Explain.

Obi-Wan is specifically said to not be matching Grievous' speed in that duel.

Without offensive force powers I think Obi-Wan could last for at least 30 seconds or so, with zero hope of actually winning of course.

I'd even be willing to assert that there is no duelist in the mythos that could put him down in less than 20 seconds without using the force- he's pretty much the best turtler in the universe.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Without offensive force powers I think Obi-Wan could last for at least 30 seconds or so, with zero hope of actually winning of course.

I'd even be willing to assert that there is no duelist in the mythos that could put him down in less than 20 seconds without using the force- he's pretty much the best turtler in the universe. **** YES!

LAL.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
LAL. He is. Kenobi is the best defensive duelist in the mythos, with the best mastery of Soresu in the mythos.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yah it's in his respect thread:

The entire battle between Revan and Emperor Vitiate, including the aftermath, all happened in only a few seconds. This included crossing a 120 foot walkway twice, releasing pulses of energy, defending against immense lightning attacks, and the destruction of T3-M4.

"It all happened in the space of only a few seconds."

―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Thats a fake quote, I've read Revan and have never come across such a thing.

Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
" gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall."

If Dooku can do that so easily, I shudder to think how Obi will fare against someone a clear tier above the good Count.

Not selling Dooku short - he's damn near the best in the PT, but "near" just isn't good enough, for either him or Obi-Wan. To be fair, Anakin and Obi-Wan have never really been at their best when working as a team, not instantly killing Ventress is proof enough of that. Padawan Anakin can nearly kill her, but Kenobi and Anakin can't at the same time? C'mon dude :/

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No, I'm asking you whether you'd be satisifed if every importantly lightsaber duel ever visually depicted in Star Wars was done so invisibly.

"What's you're favourite lightsaber duel."

"Lol, don't know, can't see any."

You see my point?



Also, in canon we have stuff like this:



And this:




These showings clearly portray Ventress moving as swift as thought, and defeating Tholme so fast Quinlan Vos couldn't see what happened, which is like moving invisibly fast.

For the record, the novel these feats are taken from is just as canon as the movies/TCW/Rebels. If Force users weren't supposed to move this fast, the novel wouldn't even be as canon in the first place, but it is.

Ventress kills Tholme and Vos still ****s her? What a man-whore.

Yup, there are plenty of examples, including those describing duels from the movies and TCW. Really it's just illogical to assume muggles such as ourselves would be able to track the movements of Master Yoda or Darth Sidious at full throttle.Originally posted by Jmanghan
Thats a fake quote, I've read Revan and have never come across such a thing. "It all happened in the space of only a few seconds."

Is not fake, and is in the book bro, it's just been taken out of context.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yup, there are plenty of examples, including those describing duels from the movies and TCW. Really it's just illogical to assume muggles such as ourselves would be able to track the movements of Master Yoda or Darth Sidious at full throttle."It all happened in the space of only a few seconds."

Is not fake, and is in the book bro, it's just been taken out of context. Nobody addressed the Maul/Pre-Viszla fight yet...

Maul has moved faster than Komari Vosa could follow and StarWars.com describes his speed as "blinding" so it's unlikely he was going full throttle in that duel.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He is. Kenobi is the best defensive duelist in the mythos, with the best mastery of Soresu in the mythos.

Luke's Soresu is > Kenobi's.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yah it's in his respect thread:

The entire battle between Revan and Emperor Vitiate, including the aftermath, all happened in only a few seconds. This included crossing a 120 foot walkway twice, releasing pulses of energy, defending against immense lightning attacks, and the destruction of T3-M4.

"It all happened in the space of only a few seconds."

―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Definitely an idiot then, lulz.
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Thats a fake quote, I've read Revan and have never come across such a thing.
Someone else already posted the entire quote. Intelligent as always.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ventress kills Tholme and Vos still ****s her? What a man-whore. He really likes her "full lips".

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're arguing they don't move at superhuman speeds where they can perform dozens of actions in a second. They can.


I can believe them deflecting dozens of shots per second, given their feats, but that's not really the same thing that you're saying I'm guessing.


Originally posted by Nephthys
The TCW series never depicted that because they didn't depict superspeed.


Sure they did. Just not at the kind of level you're talking about.



Originally posted by Nephthys
We know that Maul can move faster than the human eye can see


Do we? Do we really know this outside of hyperbolic descriptions? Is this stated anywhere by a canon authority, or presented in some way in visual format?

Because even the superspeed sprint in TPM, was something we could see. As was Luke's leap in ESB.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vizsla can keep up with Maul partially because Maul was likely holding back and partially because non-force sensitives can reach superhuman (by our standards) levels in star wars.





It's not just Maul/Obi-Wan/Ahsoka vs Vizsla though.

It's Obi-Wan vs Jango Fett. It's Anakin vs Hondo. It's Obi-Wan and Vos vs Cad Bane.

Sure those guys have advantages like flight packs and stuff. And the Jedi/Sith clearly depict superhuman traits in those fights. But their opponents can clearly perceive and fight the Jedi/Sith. That's my point. So they're obviously not doing 12 things per second, because if they were none of the above would even be a fight.


Originally posted by Nargaroth


These showings clearly portray Ventress moving as swift as thought, and defeating Tholme so fast Quinlan Vos couldn't see what happened, which is like moving invisibly fast.

For the record, the novel these feats are taken from is just as canon as the movies/TCW/Rebels. If Force users weren't supposed to move this fast, the novel wouldn't even be as canon in the first place, but it is.


And yet Ventress can't blitz Vos? Hmm?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Without offensive force powers I think Obi-Wan could last for at least 30 seconds or so, with zero hope of actually winning of course.

I'd even be willing to assert that there is no duelist in the mythos that could put him down in less than 20 seconds without using the force- he's pretty much the best turtler in the universe.


I'd say 20-30 seconds in a Pure Saber duel is pretty fair. Maul lasted 20 seconds against Sidious in their final 1 v 1 Saber duel after all.

Originally posted by Trocity
Luke's Soresu is > Kenobi's. Be nice if you could back that up with evidence.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Definitely an idiot then, lulz.

Someone else already posted the entire quote. Intelligent as always. ****er.

Anyway, maybe I'm just rusty on the novel, only read it once and that was over a year ago. Still don't recall that quote though.

No more than ten seconds. He's no rival to Sidious like Maul is.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No more than ten seconds. He's no rival to Sidious like Maul is. Lol...

Originally posted by quanchi112
No more than ten seconds. He's no rival to Sidious like Maul is.


All the Jedi are rivals to Palpatine LOL

Originally posted by Darth Thor
All the Jedi are rivals to Palpatine LOL That is absurd.

It's funny how hypocritical you guys are being to meet your own end, less then a year ago, Lucas' say didn't matter when it came to stuff like Sidious and such.

Yet now, when Lucas is like "Naw, Sidious threw the fight", everyone is quick to jump at the chance to use this as canon and act like it's law.

People's opinions can change in less than an hour let alone a year.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is absurd.



Deal with it.


Obi-Wan's a bigger threat to Sidious than Maul.

Always was, always will be.

Even as a Force Ghost.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
People's opinions can change in less than an hour let alone a year. It doesn't matter what your "opinion" is, you can't just say "Hey, Lucas' word is canon now" because you feel like it would benefit your argument.

Either it's canon, or it isn't.

You can't have one thing be canon and everything else not be canon, thats not how canonicity works.

So, either everything Lucas said is canon, or everything he says isn't canon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Deal with it.


Obi-Wan's a bigger threat to Sidious than Maul.

Always was, always will be.

Even as a Force Ghost.

To be fair, Force Ghosts can be more powerful due to their resistance to physical attacks, if they had JUST become a force ghost and died not moments ago.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obi-Wan is specifically said to not be matching Grievous' speed in that duel. Grievous reached those numbers though and his strikes were met with Obi-wan's saber so it only makes sense to assume that he strikes almost as much as he did since sometimes Obi-wan countered more than one blade at once. Even if we say Obi is the half of Grievous, it would make 10 strikes a second which is still too fast for visual medium which was my point in the first place.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
It doesn't matter what your "opinion" is, you can't just say "Hey, Lucas' word is canon now" because you feel like it would benefit your argument.

Either it's canon, or it isn't.

You can't have one thing be canon and everything else not be canon, thats not how canonicity works.

So, either everything Lucas said is canon, or everything he says isn't canon.
Actually, that exactly what you can do. You can say whatever you want in any argument you want as long as it's convincing and well thought out. That's why it's called an argument and not a religion.

Dooku himself has admitted at times that he's had trouble keeping up with Grievous during their duels.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Deal with it.


Obi-Wan's a bigger threat to Sidious than Maul.

Always was, always will be.

Even as a Force Ghost. You are free to feel that way but the Clone Wars episodes where Sidious calls him a rival and the son of dathomir say otherwise.

His force ghost did nothing to stop Sidious from torturing Luke. Lucky for him Vader turned yet again.

Originally posted by Sinious
Grievous reached those numbers though and his strikes were met with Obi-wan's saber so it only makes sense to assume that he strikes almost as much as he did since sometimes Obi-wan countered more than one blade at once. Even if we say Obi is the half of Grievous, it would make 10 strikes a second which is still too fast for visual medium which was my point in the first place.

"His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters."

This is an argument I don't want to go into atm but you seem to be having problem with the context of my original argument yet again

The force users are too fast to be depicted without making them appear slower in the movies/tv shows etc. Do you disagree with that? If not, not much to discuss here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are free to feel that way but the Clone Wars episodes where Sidious calls him a rival and the son of dathomir say otherwise.

.



The Clone Wars episodes say Kenobi's not a rival?

Palatine specifically tries to get Anakin to not save Kenobi in ROTS.

He then tells him after he turns that every single Jedi is now an enemy "that includes your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi".

Palpatine clearly wanted Kenobi dead. He never bothered killing Maul.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The Clone Wars episodes say Kenobi's not a rival?

Palatine specifically tries to get Anakin to not save Kenobi in ROTS.

He then tells him after he turns that every single Jedi is now an enemy "that includes your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi".

Palpatine clearly wanted Kenobi dead. He never bothered killing Maul. The episode and the comics further validate my claims Maul is a rival. I have the character saying as much.

You have a coincidence. At no point does Sheev act like Kenobi's a rival but instead wants to merely capitalize on leaving Kenobi for dead.

He wanted all the Jedi who opposed him dead but didn't consider them rivals. That's absurd.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The episode and the comics further validate my claims Maul is a rival. I have the character saying as much.

You have a coincidence. At no point does Sheev act like Kenobi's a rival but instead wants to merely capitalize on leaving Kenobi for dead.

He wanted all the Jedi who opposed him dead but didn't consider them rivals. That's absurd.

Rival : a person or thing competing with another for the same objective or for superiority in the same field of activity.

Yes, Maul is a rival, just not a very good one. Clearly the Jedi are not rivals, they aren't trying to become the Dark Lord of the Sith.

Originally posted by Trocity
Rival : a person or thing competing with another for the same objective or for superiority in the same field of activity.

Yes, Maul is a rival, just not a very good one. Clearly the Jedi are not rivals, they aren't trying to become the Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Thor is the one who claimed Kenobi was a rival which I stated was absurd. I'm glad you posted the definition to show I am correct.


Sidious is superior to Maul at that point which I have never denied despite Maul being my favorite Star Wars character. I'm objective to a fault.

Originally posted by Trocity


Yes, Maul is a rival, just not a very good one. Clearly the Jedi are not rivals, they aren't trying to become the Dark Lord of the Sith.


They are Rivals in the Force.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The episode and the comics further validate my claims Maul is a rival.


No they don't. Maul was pretty insignificant to Sidious once he lost his army. He didn't even bother to chase Maul when he was running away.

Talzin was the real Rival Sidious was worried about.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No they don't. Maul was pretty insignificant to Sidious once he lost his army. He didn't even bother to chase Maul when he was running away.

Talzin was the real Rival Sidious was worried about. So you just destroyed your own point as you acknowledged his army was a threat. You said Kenobi was a greater rival ignoring the definition of your own word along with your own logic in this admission.


Talzin knew Maul had greater significance.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you just destroyed your own point as you acknowledged his army was a threat. You said Kenobi was a greater rival ignoring the definition of your own word along with your own logic in this admission.


Talzin knew Maul had greater significance.


You speak so much nonsense. Maul was a Rival due to taking on his own Sith Apprentice and building up an army. Once those 2 things were gone he wasn't even worth Sidious's attention accept to get to the real threat- Talzin.

The Jedi Unlike the Sith Were a brotherhood. The Jedi and the Sith were rivals in the Force and Kenobi was a big part of the Council leading the whole Brotherhood of Jedi.

So yes Kenobi was more of a threat to Sidious than Maul. In fact Kenobi set about Sidious's destruction by training Luke. Maul had squat all to do with Sidious's destruction. Maul was simply too afraid of Sidious.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You speak so much nonsense. Maul was a Rival due to taking on his own Sith Apprentice and building up an army. Once those 2 things were gone he wasn't even worth Sidious's attention accept to get to the real threat- Talzin.

The Jedi Unlike the Sith Were a brotherhood. The Jedi and the Sith were rivals in the Force and Kenobi was a big part of the Council leading the whole Brotherhood of Jedi.

So yes Kenobi was more of a threat to Sidious than Maul. In fact Kenobi set about Sidious's destruction by training Luke. Maul had squat all to do with Sidious's destruction. Maul was simply too afraid of Sidious. So you admit Kenobi never had either of those things so he wasn't a rival.

Talzin also knew Maul was more important than she was despite her superior power. Power isn't everything.

Kenobi wasn't a rival to Sidious. At no point did he ever refer to him as one so I have Sheev's own words and you have your own conjecture.

Yoda trained Luke. Luke went off against advice. Vader saved his life. You really try changing around events to suit your conjecture.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you admit Kenobi never had either of those things so he wasn't a rival.

He didn't need them. He had his brotherhood. There's a reason Sidious focused all his efforts on the Jedi. Not on Maul.



Originally posted by quanchi112
Talzin also knew Maul was more important than she was despite her superior power. Power isn't everything.


Sidious doesn't care.



Originally posted by quanchi112
Kenobi wasn't a rival to Sidious. At no point did he ever refer to him as one so I have Sheev's own words and you have your own conjecture.


"That includes your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi"

He specifically mentions him.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Yoda trained Luke. Luke went off against advice. Vader saved his life. You really try changing around events to suit your conjecture.


I knew you haven't seen Star Wars.

Obi-Wan began Luke's training, and protected him on Tatooine for years before that. Even his Ghost went on to give Luke lessons. Vader even says "Obi-Wan has taught you well."

Go back to a franchise you can be bothered watching like NUTrek

You guys are pretty adorable together, tbh. When's the wedding?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He didn't need them. He had his brotherhood. There's a reason Sidious focused all his efforts on the Jedi. Not on Maul.






Sidious doesn't care.






"That includes your friend Obi-Wan Kenobi"

He specifically mentions him.





I knew you haven't seen Star Wars.

Obi-Wan began Luke's training, and protected him on Tatooine for years before that. Even his Ghost went on to give Luke lessons. Vader even says "Obi-Wan has taught you well."

Go back to a franchise you can be bothered watching like NUTrek The Jedi were his sworn ememies but not his rivals as they weren't after the same things. Their ideals are opposite.


My point was never about Sidious it was about Talzin. Sidious also died because he was moronic about Luke.


To have him killed. He never says he's a rival. Having a person killed doesn't make them a rival.

Yoda gave him his competent Jedi training post Luke death. Yoda trained him despite Vader's words. Vader isn't all knowing and didn't even know what he'd do until he turned in the heat of the moment.

Luke went against the advice of Yoda and Kenobi to face Vader in esb.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You guys are pretty adorable together, tbh. When's the wedding?


Not a good idea tbh. Don't want to be a wife beater.