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Round 1: TPM
Round 2: RotS
Round 3: RotJ
Round 4: DE

Legends canon

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Originally posted by Syndicate
...

?

None, IMO.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
None, IMO.

FotJ Luke cannot defeat TPM Palpatine?

I'm assuming you mean DE Sidious. That seems unlikely. End of Dark Empire-Luke is powerful enough to defeat Sidious with the aid of an untrained Leia "unlocking hidden reserves" in him - earlier, Palpatine before getting a young body acknowledges that beginning of DE Luke could have given him a fight (which suggests he's already at least on par with RotJ Sidious, never mind that Palpatine states he has grown more powerful). Is the Force potential unlocked by a Jedi completely untrained in Battle Meditation really > decades of additional training and growth he's achieved by NJO/LotF/FotJ? That strikes me as highly unlikely, particularly given that Lucas basically states that full potential Luke > Sidious.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
FotJ Luke cannot defeat TPM Palpatine?
FoTJ incarnation is his earliest?

Latest is the correct word to use.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm assuming you mean DE Sidious. That seems unlikely. End of Dark Empire-Luke is powerful enough to defeat Sidious with the aid of an untrained Leia "unlocking hidden reserves" in him - earlier, Palpatine before getting a young body acknowledges that beginning of DE Luke could have given him a fight (which suggests he's already at least on par with RotJ Sidious, never mind that Palpatine states he has grown more powerful). Is the Force potential unlocked by a Jedi completely untrained in Battle Meditation really > decades of additional training and growth he's achieved by NJO/LotF/FotJ? That strikes me as highly unlikely, particularly given that Lucas basically states that full potential Luke > Sidious.
Luke Skywalker could not defeat Palpatine (DE) on his own. The latter was downed through collective effort of Luke and his allies.

George Lucas doesn't considers Palpatine (DE) in his remarks; he considers only canon incarnation.

Luke might have become more powerful then Palpatine (OT) but the latter touched a new level during the events of DE.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
FoTJ incarnation is his earliest?

Latest is the correct word to use.


No, because your answer was "none".



He defeated Palpatine conventionally but couldn't handle his Force storm.



Evidence DE Palpatine was able to boost his own Force potential?



Which wasn't enough to be > Luke + some unlocked potential from an untrained Leia. I'm guessing three decades of power growth > untrained battle meditation, so FotJ Luke is definitely superior (plus he has his haxxed Force light ability, shatterpoint, some proto-vaapad, fold space, etc.)

My guess:

TPM - end of DE (maybe), black fleet crisis (probably), Vector Prime (almost certainly), mid-NJO (definitely)
Round 2: RotS - see TPM
Round 3: RotJ - probably by the black fleet crisis
Round 4: DE - black fleet crisis as a swordsman, early-mid NJO in overall combat, mid NJO - TUF in strength in the Force

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, because your answer was "none".
My response was in the context of his earliest incarnation; the one we see during ESB.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He defeated Palpatine conventionally but couldn't handle his Force storm.
Palpatine defeated him conventionally as well, earlier, but in a different setting.

Yes, Luke had no answer for the greatest powers of Palpatine (DE).

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Evidence DE Palpatine was able to boost his own Force potential?
I will provide evidence when I have time and access to the relevant sources. You will have to wait for some hours.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Which wasn't enough to be > Luke + some unlocked potential from an untrained Leia. I'm guessing three decades of power growth > untrained battle meditation, so FotJ Luke is definitely superior (plus he has his haxxed Force light ability, shatterpoint, some proto-vaapad, fold space, etc.)
What's with the untrained claims?

Luke had begun training Leia in the ways of the Force soon after the events of RoTJ. Moreover, Leia was found to be gifted in the use of Battle Meditation and similar powers.

Luke and Leia, collectively, utilized Force Harmony technique to disrupt Palpatine's connection with the Force. Since Palpatine was preoccupied with conjuring and controlling the Force Storm, he couldn't defend himself from the Force Harmony technique.

It surprises me why Palpatine didn't use Force Lightning Storm on the two Jedi before conjuring the Force Storm. An error of judgment on his part.

Round 1: TPM
I think late NR Luke should do it, given how close he should be to his Yuuzhan Vong Wars iteration. Somewhere after 20 ABY?

Round 2: RotS
Early NJO Luke.

Round 3: RotJ
Prime NJO Luke.


Round 4: DE
Prime NJO Luke or prime FotJ Luke.

In Dark Empire didn't the force harmony Luke and Leia use severely weaken or completely sever Palpatines connection to the dark side?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In Dark Empire didn't the force harmony Luke and Leia use severely weaken or completely sever Palpatines connection to the dark side?

I believe it was only his control over the Dark Side.

Think he got confused and and meant to put "Earliest Palpatine that Luke Skywalker could defeat".

As he has line-ups from TPM and after

I'll respond to SW_Legend when I've time; meanwhile, to clear this up:

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Think he got confused and and meant to put "Earliest Palpatine that Luke Skywalker could defeat".

As he has line-ups from TPM and after

No, the title is correct: I'm asking at what point in time Luke Skywalker surpasses Darth Sidious. The different rounds refer to Palpatine's various incarnations, because they vary in power and so may have been surpassed by Luke at different stages. "Earliest Palpatine that Luke Skywalker could defeat" is a pretty uninteresting question; the answer is fetus Palpatine.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'll respond to SW_Legend when I've time; meanwhile, to clear this up:



No, the title is correct: I'm asking at what point in time Luke Skywalker surpasses Darth Sidious. The different rounds refer to Palpatine's various incarnations, because they vary in power and so may have been surpassed by Luke at different stages. "Earliest Palpatine that Luke Skywalker could defeat" is a pretty uninteresting question; the answer is fetus Palpatine.

Maybe your title made sense to YOU, but it threw EVERYONE ELSE off.

No, it made sense to me.

It's pretty ****ing obvious if you think about it mmm

Earliest Luke Skywalker then can defeat Palpatine?

It made absolutely no sense to me.

Why did he throw in Palpatine's incarnations if we're talking about the Earliest Luke though?

Luke wasn't even a thought in The Phantom Menace, as his father was younger then he was in ANH.

Originally posted by Selenial
No, it made sense to me.

It's pretty ****ing obvious if you think about it mmm

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Earliest Luke Skywalker then can defeat Palpatine?

It made absolutely no sense to me.

Why did he throw in Palpatine's incarnations if we're talking about the Earliest Luke though?

Luke wasn't even a thought in The Phantom Menace, as his father was younger then he was in ANH.

Break it down as if each Palpatine is a different thread.

So the earliest Luke that can defeat TPM Palpatine, the earliest Luke that can bead RotS Palpatine etc.

TPM: Not sure.
RotS: Early NJO.
RotJ: Late NJO.
DE: FotJ

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My response was in the context of his earliest incarnation; the one we see during ESB.

This...this is just embarrassing.