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Legends/Canon hybrid

Sabers
Force
All-out

mmm Not sure.

Vader in all.

Stalemate in sabers, stalemate in physicals, stalemate in powers too but Kun has much greater knowledge of the Force.

Not that this hasn't been done to death before.

Either way.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Vader in all.

Could go either way.

Only thing that can go either way is Exar getting bisected or decapitated.

Sabers - Vader decisively
Force - Kun barely
All-out - obviously Vadur

Vader wins

Sabers I would think should go to Vader.

Force. Both are powerful, with Kun having a decisive edge in Sith Magic and Vader having an edge in TK. At the end of the day I see TK as much more useful in this contest and Vader's strong will could help put off his illusions. Kun's blast will also be a deciding factor but in neutral ground I see Vader being able to react accordingly.

All out, Vader's decent edge in sabers and is what will put him through a victory over Kun.

Sabers: Vader, but just barely imo.
Force: Vader, again, by a small margin.
All-out: Vader in a real close one.

Vader.
Exar Kun.
Exar Kun.

In what realm is Vader having any kind of sizable edge over Kun in sabers, when pre-prime Kun was a perfect match for prime Ulic Qel-Droma, who shitstomped Warb Null as a mere Jedi Knight. Warb Null having the combat ability of Freedon Nadd imprinted in his Dark Armor, Nadd being the guy who killed hundreds of Jedi and was a match for a composite lightsaber expert in Master Tremayne.

Prime Kun was even better than the version that was a perfect match for Ulic Qel-Droma, because Kun hadn't yet developed his saberstaff and unique lightsaber style which made him far better.

Eh? Him being physically superior and being more skilled of course.

Let's go through this though statement by statement though as I'm bored.

Was he stated to have killed all these Jedi at once or over the course of an undefined period of time. Secondly what are Tremayne's feats?

Pre-prime Kun has smashed through multiple feet of beskar with his lightsaber, matched Ulic who can easily blitz prep'd opponents with reactions faster than thought, Kun's capable of going for hours in an intense duel without exhausting and has tanked serious fatal injuries.

Whatever edge Vader has physically, it is not going to be sizable either.

His blaster is stated to have killed more Jedi than any lightsaber, it also took an entire task force of Jedi to cause Nadd to leave his physical form.

Jedi Master Metta Tremayne was the primary lightsaber instructor of her day and was an expert in all lightsaber techniques, Nadd as a Jedi apprentice was barely capable of matching her, but that was literally a century before Nadd's prime, by which time he'd killed countless other Jedi in combat. Note Nadd as a Jedi was set to achieve masterhood faster than any Jedi in the history of the Order, such was his growth.

Warb Null's armor afforded him Nadd's physical prowess and combat skill; but Ulic as a mere Jedi apprentice, being hindered by a ds nexus and Null's Force suppression, stomped him and five Krath warriors with ease, apparently blitzing them. Ulic would go on to gain immense power, become a master of the dark side and become one of the greatest Sith Lords in history before facing Kun.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Pre-prime Kun has smashed through multiple feet of beskar with his lightsaber, matched Ulic who can easily blitz prep'd opponents with reactions faster than thought, Kun's capable of going for hours in an intense duel without exhausting and has tanked serious fatal injuries.

Whatever edge Vader has physically, it is not going to be sizable either.

His blaster is stated to have killed more Jedi than any lightsaber, it also took an entire task force of Jedi to cause Nadd to leave his physical form.

Jedi Master Metta Tremayne was the primary lightsaber instructor of her day and was an expert in all lightsaber techniques, Nadd as a Jedi apprentice was barely capable of matching her, but that was literally a century before Nadd's prime, by which time he'd killed countless other Jedi in combat. Note Nadd as a Jedi was set to achieve masterhood faster than any Jedi in the history of the Order, such was his growth.

Warb Null's armor afforded him Nadd's physical prowess and combat skill; but Ulic as a mere Jedi apprentice, being hindered by a ds nexus and Null's Force suppression, stomped him and five Krath warriors with ease, apparently blitzing them. Ulic would go on to gain immense power, become a master of the dark side and become one of the greatest Sith Lords in history before facing Kun.

Cool. He smashed down metal. Vader's punched a hole through one.

Warb has reactions faster then thought now? Quote please. As is Vader with an opponent who has apparently all but perfected the art of lightsaber combat. Tanked fatal injuries? I'm sure they don't compare to having a cathedral collapse on top of you, a factor explode with you in the center of it or death itself which Vader was able to will himself back from.

Didn't say it'd be sizable just that it existed.

Cool. He's likely a marksmen then. Vader casually deflected fire from the fastest shot in the Galaxy in Empire Strikes back and sniper fire in the EU. Glad to know this trivial piece of information that has no bearing on the fight.

Now what do you mean by this. The Jedi task force severed his soul from his body essentially killing him like Exar Kun did to Luke on Yavin? I'd like some clarification if you don't mind.

So she was essentially the Cin Drallig of her day. Gotcha. Also you didn't answer my question. These hundreds of Jedi Nadd killed, were they all slaughtered on one occasion or did these kills take place over an unspecified amount of time?

Would like the quote for Warb's armor affording him Nadd's skill and physical abilities.

All that flowery speech about Ulic is great but I'd like you to actually answer my questions, thanks.

AP, don't take this offensively, but why the **** are you using Freedon Nadd to wank Kun and not mentioning Queen Amanoa and King Ommin?

Double-post.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Cool. He smashed down metal. Vader's punched a hole through one.

'Metal', please; Beskar a.k.a Mandalorian Iron is highly resistant to lightsabers, even Darth Caedus couldn't brute force his way through a thin armor sheet of it.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Warb has reactions faster then thought now? Quote please.

Than*

He has reactions almost faster than thought:



Originally posted by Syndicate
As is Vader with an opponent who has apparently all but perfected the art of lightsaber combat. Tanked fatal injuries? I'm sure they don't compare to having a cathedral collapse on top of you, a factor explode with you in the center of it or death itself which Vader was able to will himself back from.

Didn't say it'd be sizable just that it existed.

Therein lies my rebuttal, Vader doesn't have any edge physically that would change the outcome.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Cool. He's likely a marksmen then. Vader casually deflected fire from the fastest shot in the Galaxy in Empire Strikes back and sniper fire in the EU. Glad to know this trivial piece of information that has no bearing on the fight.

So, just for the record, you are claiming that Nadd having killed more Jedi with his blaster than any lightsaber wielding Sith in history, such as Tulak Hord, isn't relevant to Nadd's combat feats?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Now what do you mean by this. The Jedi task force severed his soul from his body essentially killing him like Exar Kun did to Luke on Yavin? I'd like some clarification if you don't mind.

No, he lost to a full task force of Jedi and became a Sith spirit.

Originally posted by Syndicate
So she was essentially the Cin Drallig of her day. Gotcha. Also you didn't answer my question. These hundreds of Jedi Nadd killed, were they all slaughtered on one occasion or did these kills take place over an unspecified amount of time?

She was a renowned expert of lightsaber combat, yes.

Nadd had a reign spanning a century, he killed thousands of Jedi apparently, over this reign.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Would like the quote for Warb's armor affording him Nadd's skill and physical abilities.



Originally posted by Syndicate
All that flowery speech about Ulic is great but I'd like you to actually answer my questions, thanks.

I can do more than that.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
AP, don't take this offensively, but why the **** are you using Freedon Nadd to wank Kun and not mentioning Queen Amanoa and King Ommin?

Pre-prime Freedon Nadd being canonically far more powerful than Naga Sadow; and pre-prime Ulic shit-stomping Warb Null, who shares Nadd's combat abilities, years before becoming vastly more powerful and then failing to defeat a pre-prime Exar Kun is more impressive tbh.

Originally posted by AncientPower
'Metal', please; Beskar a.k.a Mandalorian Iron is highly resistant to lightsabers, even Darth Caedus couldn't brute force his way through a thin armor sheet of it.



Than*

He has reactions almost faster than thought:





Therein lies my rebuttal, Vader doesn't have any edge physically that would change the outcome.



So, just for the record, you are claiming that Nadd having killed more Jedi with his blaster than any lightsaber wielding Sith in history, such as Tulak Hord, isn't relevant to Nadd's combat feats?



No, he lost to a full task force of Jedi and became a Sith spirit.



She was a renowned expert of lightsaber combat, yes.

Nadd had a reign spanning a century, he killed thousands of Jedi apparently, over this reign.







I can do more than that.



Pre-prime Freedon Nadd being canonically far more powerful than Naga Sadow; and pre-prime Ulic shit-stomping Warb Null, who shares Nadd's combat abilities, years before becoming vastly more powerful and then failing to defeat a pre-prime Exar Kun is more impressive tbh.

There are plenty of artificial metals ( not to mention other materials that exist now a days ) that can take extreme heat though themselves are extremely malleable or even delicate. I'm going to need blunt force durability feats for Beskar before I can put Exar's feat on Vader's level.

"who can easily blitz prep'd opponents with reactions faster than thought"

Not what you were saying earlier.

So no, he's not.

Any physical edge affects the outcome even if only slightly.

Unless he's given a blaster, no. I feel like you're trying to correlate his accuracy and quick reflexes with a blaster as a force feat.

So essentially a similar ( if probably lesser ) feat then Volfe Karkko.

Cool. So he defeated a featless battlemaster pre prime and defeated many Jedi over the course of many years.

Ummm... I might be missing something here but I'm not understanding how that shows Warb Null has Freedon Nadd's skill. Could you explain your reasoning for your interpenetration for me?

Well let's see how you do with the questions first then we can get to the actual debate once we have the feats laid out.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Pre-prime Freedon Nadd being canonically far more powerful than Naga Sadow; and pre-prime Ulic shit-stomping Warb Null, who shares Nadd's combat abilities, years before becoming vastly more powerful and then failing to defeat a pre-prime Exar Kun is more impressive tbh.

Yeah, but I think it'd be easier to get the point across to Syndicate by mentioning how King Ommin (who corrupted Onderon's atmosphere with the dark side of the force, raped Nomi Sunrider, etc) had the entirety of his power derived from a portion of Spirit Nadd's, who in turn got oneshotted by Exar Kun.

We're not arguing power as I unlike a majority of the forum already view Exar Kun as Vader's superior. We're arguing skill and physicals.

Fair enough.

Though power is more important than skill in duels.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fair enough.

Though power is more important than skill in duels.

You know my thoughts on the matter skillz. :P

I think the higher the level of the combatants gets, the less relevant lightsaber skill becomes. In general, the use of lightsaber usage is really not as important at Yoda level as it is at idk TCW Ahsoka level or Kenobi level.

Valkorion is a good example of this, and Sidious and Plagueis always looked down upon dueling and as of ROTJ Sidious was outright dissing lightsabers.

In this fight, both sides are powerhouses that can unleash powerful attacks, but a lightsaber duel can still be decisive in a lot of rounds.

Originally posted by Sinious
I think the higher the level of the combatants gets, the less relevant lightsaber skill becomes. In general, the use of lightsaber usage is really not as important at Yoda level as it is at idk TCW Ahsoka level or Kenobi level.

Valkorion is a good example of this, and Sidious and Plagueis always looked down upon dueling and as of ROTJ Sidious was outright dissing lightsabers.

In this fight, both sides are powerhouses that can unleash powerful attacks, but a lightsaber duel can still be decisive in a lot of rounds.

The thing is it's not an all out fight. The thread was separated into lightsaber only, force only and all out.

I don't get those tbh. Force powers often take part in duels in the EU. It's not like they get their lightsabers out, and then the force thing stops.

Especially with Kun, I can see him combining force attacks with lightsaber maneuvers.

I think this applies to Revan more than anyone, and in general helps assess game characters.

Cool.