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Bonus round: DE Sidious

Sidious takes both.

From everything I'm getting from the Rebels and new Canon creators, there's not much of a gap anymore between Sidious and Rebels Vader. So adding Revan should make this a pretty one sided battle.

Team, lel.

If it's canon Sidious, sure. But Legends Sidious is still far superior.

BTW, it's unclear to me why people think Vader and Sidious have some level of parity in the new canon. Is old Ben Kenobi a match for Palpatine now?

Originally posted by The Ellimist

BTW, it's unclear to me why people think Vader and Sidious have some level of parity in the new canon. Is old Ben Kenobi a match for Palpatine now?


Well it's confirmed Rebels Vader > LOTS Vader > ROTS Vader > Count Dooku. So imagine giving ROTS Dooku 3 significant power ups, it's not hard to imagine he would at least be close to ROTS Palpatine.

Vader's TK feats in the new Star Wars comics are the greatest we've seen from any Jedi/Sith in Canon.

Also there's the source book that places Vader above Palpatine in Sabers. Not sure if I buy that, but it just adds to the idea of Vader/Palpatine being closer to peers than Vader easily being Palpatine's b****.

The Kenobi fight is an inconsistency, due to Lucas not really having an idea of power levels at that point. But I think we can safely assume 2 things when relating that in the new Canon:

1. ANH Kenobi > ROTS Kenobi
2. Vader would have solidly defeated Kenobi had that fight continued.

Remember Rebels Maul states he's no match for Vader, so unless you think ANH Kenobi > Rebels Maul, Vader was clearly going to win that fight.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well it's confirmed Rebels Vader > LOTS Vader > ROTS Vader > Count Dooku.


As a lightsaber duelist?



Not necessarily. Palpatine is significantly above Dooku (see how helpless pre-vaapad Windu is).



Yeah, but we don't really see Sidious in situations that would require him to use telekinesis extensively. We do see Sidious effortlessly ragdolling Maul + Oppress, and can contrast this to Vader being tagged by Kanan/Erza and contested by Ahsoka.

Seriously: could you imagine Kanan and Erza Force pushing Palpatine into an AT-ST?



Yeah...that's sort of like Legend Anoon's "second to none" saber abilities.

Maybe Palpatine's skills with a blade had since declined.



And what of Vader's fight with Ahsoka? Do you think Ahsoka would have lasted more than 10 seconds against Sidious?



Except that the movie-novels are still canon, and describe the two at an impasse.



I could buy that ANH Kenobi > Rebels Maul, and that Kenobi got stronger between the trilogies. I don't buy that the guy who gets Force pushed by Ahsoka can match the guy that made Yoda flee.

Sidious loses first and wins second.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious loses first and wins second.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1. ANH Kenobi > ROTS Kenobihttps://media.giphy.com/media/aPxImPoozq3gQ/giphy.gif

pls explain

^ I thought I already explained Beni.. He fought off Vader. ROTS Kenobi gets stomped by Dooku.


Originally posted by The Ellimist
As a lightsaber duelist?


All out, formidability/Power.



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not necessarily. Palpatine is significantly above Dooku (see how helpless pre-vaapad Windu is).



And like I said Dooku would require 3 significant power ups to be Vader's equal. Not 1, not 2, but 3.


Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah, but we don't really see Sidious in situations that would require him to use telekinesis extensively. We do see Sidious effortlessly ragdolling Maul + Oppress, and can contrast this to Vader being tagged by Kanan/Erza and contested by Ahsoka.


Well looking at how Vader's TK feats outstrip Maul's and Opress's by a laughable amount, I see no reason Vader couldn't do that to TCW Maul + Opress.


Originally posted by The Ellimist
Seriously: could you imagine Kanan and Erza Force pushing Palpatine into an AT-ST?


No need to lowball. He was caught off guard. They were both horribly outmatched.



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yeah...that's sort of like Legend Anoon's "second to none" saber abilities.

Maybe Palpatine's skills with a blade had since declined.



Nope, because it doesn't refer to 1 specific time period, given both Dooku and Vader are on the list.



Originally posted by The Ellimist
And what of Vader's fight with Ahsoka? Do you think Ahsoka would have lasted more than 10 seconds against Sidious?


Sure, if Ahsoka's Dooku level, then why not?



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Except that the movie-novels are still canon, and describe the two at an impasse.


The OT novels are horribly outdated. Unless you think Owen and Ben are still brothers.



Originally posted by The Ellimist
I could buy that ANH Kenobi > Rebels Maul, and that Kenobi got stronger between the trilogies. I don't buy that the guy who gets Force pushed by Ahsoka can match the guy that made Yoda flee.


Like I said, depends how Powerful Ahsoka is. People on the Rebels team like FPJ seem to think she's like the 3rd or 4th most powerful Jedi of all time.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ I thought I already explained Beni.. He fought off Vader. ROTS Kenobi gets stomped by Dooku. And then fought off Vader and defeated him. Who Dooku got stomped by. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And then fought off Vader and defeated him. Who Dooku got stomped by. mmm


Well you know. Kenobi knew Anakin so was better suited to battling him. Plus Anakin's emotional conflict may have played a part e.t.c.

To be honest, Disney had a golden opportunity to rewrite Star Wars history and rectify the faults of Legends content in the process.

Unfortunately, newer canon content is even worse then the content it is supposedly replacing...

The current authors are (blindly) making Darth Vader look too powerful; a time will come when they will find it really difficult to explore and hype ancient characters. And then fans will have a new set of inconsistencies to deal with. We are already getting some.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The current authors are (blindly) making Darth Vader look too powerful; a time will come when they will find it really difficult to explore and hype ancient characters. And then fans will have a new set of inconsistencies to deal with. We are already getting some.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xIJ0KLI0wE4/U3LwFGNKrII/AAAAAAAAGks/CUkA2JsQqeY/s1600/doc2.gif

The idea that someone really close to Palpatine in raw power isn't snapping the neck of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker, doesn't sits well with me.

The authors can write new stories but they cannot undo OT episodes.

Vader wanted to prove he could defeat Obi-Wan the same way Obi-Wan defeated him. He also doesn't want to snap the neck of his son because he's not a psychopath. Lulz.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


a time will come when they will find it really difficult to explore and hype ancient characters. And then fans will have a new set of inconsistencies to deal with. We are already getting some.

Why is that?

Although given The Force and Vader being the Chosen One, I've always felt that his power be hampered by mere machinery to be rather silly.

Sure to a degree I could see that his power needs to be degraded(not reaching his potential doesn't mean he can't grow in power, because where does this potential cap off at?), but still he should be solidly in the top 5 Force Users in the Mythos.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xIJ0KLI0wE4/U3LwFGNKrII/AAAAAAAAGks/CUkA2JsQqeY/s1600/doc2.gif

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader wanted to prove he could defeat Obi-Wan the same way Obi-Wan defeated him. He also doesn't want to snap the neck of his son because he's not a psychopath. Lulz. what about karbin freshest

You mean the guy he was throwing all over the place and threw a shuttle into?

why didn't he snap his neck with a gesture freshest

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why is that?

Although given The Force and Vader being the Chosen One, I've always felt that his power be hampered by mere machinery to be rather silly.

Sure to a degree I could see that his power needs to be degraded(not reaching his potential doesn't mean he can't grow in power, because where does this potential cap off at?), but still he should be solidly in the top 5 Force Users in the Mythos.

Lol, what? You clearly don't understand. It's not like Anakin's trying to fill a potential meter and the end of the line got cut.

He always had that power, in it's fullest, he just didn't have the knowledge or focus to command it like Luke could. Once he became Vader, that changed; he initially had only a fraction of his old power, and had to learn to compensate.

Nope, Canon says being chopped to bits only made him stronger. This is the new face of Vader.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
why didn't he snap his neck with a gesture freshest
He threw a ****ing shuttle into him, Joker. Not that it takes some type of supreme power to kill Non-Force Sensitives.

Stronger in mind, weaker in body.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lol, what? You clearly don't understand. It's not like Anakin's trying to fill a potential meter and the end of the line got cut.

He always had that power, in it's fullest, he just didn't have the knowledge or focus to command it like Luke could. Once he became Vader, that changed; he initially had only a fraction of his old power, and had to learn to compensate.

No I understand perfectly well, he does still have the power but he can't reach it due to what the machinery made him and his mindset.

But that was kinda referring to more Legends, Canon wise now since he's more powerful it's ok.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nope, Canon says being chopped to bits only made him stronger. This is the new face of Vader.
So injures did not hurt his potential?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So injures did not hurt his potential?

Far as new canon goes? Doesn't seem like it, it just affected his mobility/speed, which is understandable.

I am not sure whether to protest or rejoice over that revelation but it will prove problematic in the long run.

As soon as the Godlander kills your precious Valkorion all will be fine.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader wanted to prove he could defeat Obi-Wan the same way Obi-Wan defeated him. He also doesn't want to snap the neck of his son because he's not a psychopath. Lulz. what about ahsoka freshest

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not sure whether to protest or rejoice over that revelation but it will prove problematic in the long run.

Just wait, everything will even out and there will be powers coming out the wazoo as new Force Users emerge onto the scene.

At least with Vader, we know that TK will only be his main thing and he should be in the Top 5 of TK because of that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To be honest, Disney had a golden opportunity to rewrite Star Wars history and rectify the faults of Legends content in the process.

Unfortunately, newer canon content is even worse then the content it is supposedly replacing...

The current authors are (blindly) making Darth Vader look too powerful; a time will come when they will find it really difficult to explore and hype ancient characters. And then fans will have a new set of inconsistencies to deal with. We are already getting some. Translation: "I don't like the fact that Vader is more powerful in the new canon because it threatens the standing of my precious SWTOR characters."

Dry those tears LeG.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
what about ahsoka freshest
He kept telling her to surrender. To leave. Jesus spoke to her.

































She should have listened.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Translation: "I don't like the fact that Vader is more powerful in the new canon because it threatens the standing of my precious SWTOR characters."

Dry those tears LeG.
I don't have a problem with power progression of Darth Vader at personal capacity; I do have a problem with inconsistencies that the new revelation (that Darth Vader did not suffer loss of potential due to his injuries) will produce.

George Lucas did not envision Darth Vader as a top dog, he envisioned him as a man with flaws and limitations. According to him, Palpatine was the top dog. Lucas's justification for Darth Vader not being able to challenge Palpatine was that the former had suffered a loss of potential due to grave injuries. Lucas's story is about tragedy and redemption. Unfortunately, the writers are deviating from this gist and embracing Dragonballz path; they will ruin the original story in this manner.

Now that the canon writers seek to defy Lucas's perspective of the story, how would they justify Vader not managing to realize his true potential in a span of many years and overthrow Palpatine?

SWTOR is irrelevant in this case because it is not canon.

Because Palpatine is more knowledgeable than Vader, as well as the fact that Vader still would need an apprentice, once that Sidious wanted because Vader is a cripple?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because Palpatine is more knowledgeable than Vader, as well as the fact that Vader still would need an apprentice, once that Sidious wanted because Vader is a cripple?
So having more knowledge then Darth Vader is sufficient reason to remain above him?

Darth Vader should have the raw power to destroy Palpatine at some point. If injuries have not harmed his potential then he should be able to harness his true power at some point.

How many years would it take Darth Vader to realize his true power?

The new revelation doesn't makes any sense. Disney should have stayed away from Star Wars.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So having more knowledge then Darth Vader is sufficient reason to remain above him?

Are you retarded? Of course it is.

Yeah, it probably won't be when he's in his early 40s. It's not with everybody else.

Less years than it took Valkorion. How the **** should I know? You still need knowledge to reach that potential. You don't just suddenly become more powerful.

Or you could just accept that no one cares about how you gauge anything.

Good fight. Siding with team.

DE Sidious takes it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Are you retarded? Of course it is.

Yeah, it probably won't be when he's in his early 40s. It's not with everybody else.

Less years than it took Valkorion. How the **** should I know? You still need knowledge to reach that potential. You don't just suddenly become more powerful.

Or you could just accept that no one cares about how you gauge anything.
You seem to be emotionally invested in this matter. Chill dude.

So your perception is that knowledge = power? It is true to an extent but not entirely.

Darth Vader needs to learn to harness his enormous potential; I don't think that he needs to learn a hundred techniques to harness his enormous potential. He just needs the right kind of knowledge for the said purpose.

Now, Darth Vader is shown visiting many places so if he has time to visit so many places, how come he doesn't finds sources of knowledge other then Palpatine's training that may help him grow further?

Regarding the time needed to realize true potential; Anakin Skywalker progressed from loosing to Count Dooku in Episode II to defeating Count Dooku in Episode III. The timeline between these two episodes would have been like 3 years? So Anakin's progress significantly slowed down in the later years?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You seem to be emotionally invested in this matter. Chill dude.

I didn't ask if you're retarded because I'm mad. I'm legitimately curious.

It's flat out said in Rebels. it's common sense. You're about as wrong as can be.

No. He needs knowledge to help him access his power. He was born with as much power as he died with. That doesn't mean he could solo armies as a newborn. You assume knowledge doesn't help him access this power, and that's, again, the exact opposite of what Star Wars has argued.

Like the holocron he was trying to get? Are you even paying attention to anything past 3637?

He progressed significantly because he continued to train and gain knowledge, which was said in the TCW movie. He still had more to learn, including hundreds of years of Sith knowledge. I'm legit convinced you don't know what you're talking about. Stick to TOR.

I don't think Canon has addressed anything about Vader's potential. Just that he kept growing in power since ROTS. And he was already stupidly powerful by ROTS anyway.

His "Rate of growth" however may have declined. I.e. Without the injuries he may have been as powerful as his Rebels self by the time of LOTS or something. But it's not been addressed so I'm just speculating.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I don't have a problem with power progression of Darth Vader at personal capacity; I do have a problem with inconsistencies that the new revelation (that Darth Vader did not suffer loss of potential due to his injuries) will produce.

George Lucas did not envision Darth Vader as a top dog, he envisioned him as a man with flaws and limitations. According to him, Palpatine was the top dog. Lucas's justification for Darth Vader not being able to challenge Palpatine was that the former had suffered a loss of potential due to grave injuries. Lucas's story is about tragedy and redemption. Unfortunately, the writers are deviating from this gist and embracing Dragonballz path; they will ruin the original story in this manner.

Now that the canon writers seek to defy Lucas's perspective of the story, how would they justify Vader not managing to realize his true potential in a span of many years and overthrow Palpatine?

SWTOR is irrelevant in this case because it is not canon. It's OK, I get it, proving Malgus is more powerful than Vader must be tough these days.

Malgus being < Vader changes literally nothing.

That's because it's always been the case. Originally posted by Darth Thor
I don't think Canon has addressed anything about Vader's potential. Just that he kept growing in power since ROTS. And he was already stupidly powerful by ROTS anyway.

His "Rate of growth" however may have declined. I.e. Without the injuries he may have been as powerful as his Rebels self by the time of LOTS or something. But it's not been addressed so I'm just speculating. Tbh Vader's connection to the Force having strengthened since ROTS (which could be inferred from Legends anyway) doesn't exactly preclude his overall potential having been cut.

I mean I find it unlikely that Disney would entirely disregard was is essentially a George Lucas concept. *shrug*

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I mean I find it unlikely that Disney would entirely disregard was is essentially a George Lucas concept. *shrug*

You mean like Vader and Ben being pieces of shit below the likes of TPM Maul and Qui-Gon?

Yeah that was his concept also.

mmm

This one is a bit more fundamental though.

They're ignoring GL on the Vader shit because Vader's been viewed as an iconic badass for 30 years and he contradicted himself pretty explicitly with Dooku, Grievous, and TPM!Obi-Wan.

Which, to be fair to them, George isn't the most... consistent authority in the world.

That's an understatement.

Sidious dies

Let's be honest, the only real reason George ever insinuated Vader was meant to be a weak feeb was because of '70s choreography and stunt technology that he felt the need to justify creatively.

It's like, dude, it's OK to admit your shit was limited at the time.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Let's be honest, the only real reason George ever insinuated Vader was meant to be a weak feeb was because of '70s choreography and stunt technology that he felt the need to justify creatively.

It's like, dude, it's OK to admit your shit was limited at the time.

Agreed tbh.

Also lel at LeG's rant about how making Vader more powerful is screwing up things.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Let's be honest, the only real reason George ever insinuated Vader was meant to be a weak feeb was because of '70s choreography and stunt technology that he felt the need to justify creatively.

It's like, dude, it's OK to admit your shit was limited at the time.

Yet everyone insist that Ben Kenobi is shit, while they made ANH Vader a god...

Yeah Disney chose to ignore some of Lucas's more inconsistent statements in favour of protecting the most Iconic villain in movie history. That's too big a jewel for Disney which they will protect.

Still I see nothing Disney has done contradicting the idea that Vader's full potential might have been hindered. After all that was still his and Palpatine's main interest in turning Luke right?

Imho Vader being hindered (in some ways) has a lot more to do with his psychological state rather than his physical one.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Agreed tbh.

Also lel at LeG's rant about how making Vader more powerful is screwing up things.

Similar to Neph's rant, yes. Neither of them want Vader looking formidable because they're biased against the era.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Similar to Neph's rant, yes. Neither of them want Vader looking formidable because they're biased against the era. I disagree that Vader shouldn't be made formidable, but I do believe its important that Vader remains a broken individual, both physically and mentally. Which is what Lucas intended.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I disagree that Vader shouldn't be made formidable, but I do believe its important that Vader remains a broken individual, both physically and mentally. Which is what Lucas intended.

Given that Vader has never been a picture of mental health and physically could have potentially been Father-tier, I'd say that's always been the case.

He can still conceivably be the 2nd strongest Sith ever, though.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Similar to Neph's rant, yes. Neither of them want Vader looking formidable because they're biased against the era.

Nah, I consider myself neutral in the PTTeam vs. SWTORTeam war, and I don't mind it mainly because it would only truly affect SWTOR's characters if Sheev >> Valkoriate. As of now, Sheev might only barely > Valkoriate, so the gap isn't that big between the others tbh. Even you, my friend, have to accept that if Valkorion < Sids, it's by a small margin.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Nah, I consider myself neutral in the PTTeam vs. SWTORTeam war, and I don't mind it mainly because it would only truly affect SWTOR's characters if Sheev >> Valkoriate. As of now, Sheev might only barely > Valkoriate, so the gap isn't that big between the others tbh. Even you, my friend, have to accept that if Valkorion < Sids, it's by a small margin.

Yeah, it's quite sad that you've decided to roll around in that excrement in all your finery.

I don't have to accept what's not true lol.

DO EET ACCEPT IT NOW

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
DO EET ACCEPT IT NOW

Nah.

Like I've said, Valkoriate is pretty underwhelming. I trolled through Leg's respect thread a few hours ago and even feat-to-feat, ol' Sheev has a comparable or more impressive counterpoint to it.

And way better accolades.

I keep going back to all the time, effort, and resources he had to get where he is... for Sheev to surpass it in the span of a human lifetime is hilarious.

I'm not saying Sheev isn't great. I'm only saying Valk is, too.

Sorry not sorry Gid. I knoe u still luv me doe.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I'm not saying Sheev isn't great. I'm only saying Valk is, too.

Sorry not sorry Gid. I knoe u still luv me doe.

Valk's not weak, no. But he's no match for Sheev.

As a pupil of mine, I'm willing to extend you an opportunity to convince me. Surely an argument endorsing Valkoriate from you wouldn't be so... weak as arguments from the others.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Valk's not weak, no. But he's no match for Sheev.

As a pupil of mine, I'm willing to extend you an opportunity to convince me. Surely an argument endorsing Valkoriate from you wouldn't be so... weak as arguments from the others.

Where would you place him Gid?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Where would you place him Gid?

Below Sheev and above Bandon.

I generally don't rank characters anymore unless their position in the hierarchy has been pretty thoroughly established by credible authorities.

Hmm. What if I don't actually want to convince you? I think it'd be kind of boring tbh, not having teh ultimate Sheev wanker around.

Anyway, define 'no match'. As in, you think 1v1 Sids literally rapes him?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Hmm. What if I don't actually want to convince you? I think it'd be kind of boring tbh, not having teh ultimate Sheev wanker around.

Sheevism has been the single most important faction in the history of this forum and Sheev the most important figure. Lightsnake, who started the whole thing, has been gone for years, as has Gideon. I'm sure Sheevism could manage just fine without me.

Assuming you can stop me, of course.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Anyway, define 'no match'. As in, you think 1v1 Sids literally rapes him?

No match as in they're not equals. Sheev is better. He's more powerful, more skilled, more learned, smarter, stronger, faster, more agile. He's a greater warrior and a greater sorcerer. He's a greater threat to both cosmos and civilization.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sheevism has been the single most important faction in the history of this forum and Sheev the most important figure. Lightsnake, who started the whole thing, has been gone for years, as has Gideon. I'm sure Sheevism could manage just fine without me.

Assuming you can stop me, of course.

You never truly left, you don't deceive me. You've always been around... Checking in, observing the progress of Sheevism.




You didn't answer the question tho.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sheevism has been the single most important faction in the history of this forum and Sheev the most important figure. Lightsnake, who started the whole thing, has been gone for years, as has Gideon. I'm sure Sheevism could manage just fine without me.

Assuming you can stop me, of course.



No match as in they're not equals. Sheev is better. He's more powerful, more skilled, more learned, smarter, stronger, faster, more agile. He's a greater warrior and a greater sorcerer. He's a greater threat to both cosmos and civilization.

Temp. Like not to burst your bubble but Sinious and I ( maybe Fated? ) are pretty much the only ones who aren't full on Valkorianites and even we're on the fence. Who else is as fervent a Sheev supporter as you?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
You never truly left, you don't deceive me. You've always been around... Checking in, observing the progress of Sheevism.

As I said, Sheevism would endure without me if it had to. You need only look at the efforts of others, elsewhere, like Silver2467. Sheevism is still victorious on all fronts.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
You didn't answer the question tho.

I did exactly that. You asked what "no match" meant and I told you. I never said Sheev would stomp Valk.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
As I said, Sheevism would endure without me if it had to. You need only look at the efforts of others, elsewhere, like Silver2467. Sheevism is still victorious on all fronts.



I did exactly that. You asked what "no match" meant and I told you. I never said Sheev would stomp Valk.

I asked if you thought Sheev would rape Valk 1v1. Or, if not, how close a fight do you think it'd be?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I asked if you thought Sheev would rape Valk 1v1. Or, if not, how close a fight do you think it'd be?

Barring a Force storm, I don't think it would be a stomp, no.

BE MORE SPECIFIC GODDAMNIT. I MADE YOU A SIG.

How close a fight do you think it would be?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
BE MORE SPECIFIC GODDAMNIT. I MADE YOU A SIG.

How close a fight do you think it would be?

I'm... not sure what you want to hear lol.

I want to hear your thoughts on how close a fight do you think it would be if the two faced off.

Close? Not very close? Very close? Borderline stalemate? What?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I want to hear your thoughts on how close a fight do you think it would be if the two faced off.

Close? Not very close? Very close? Borderline stalemate? What?

Guess it depends on which iteration?

Valerian, your answer: He thinks Plagueis would defeat Valkorion in an combat.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valerian, your answer: He thinks Plagueis would defeat Valkorion in an combat.

Well, dude did lose to an exhausted Jedi on a dark side nexus.

Couldn't even kill a goddamn antique R2.

You're hurting my feelings even more.

Time to get the rope and stool.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
the rope and stool.

Two more things that would probably kill Valky.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Guess it depends on which iteration?

1: SoR Vitiate

2: Valkorion

3: End-game (chap. III) Vitiate

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
1: SoR Vitiate

2: Valkorion

3: End-game (chap. III) Vitiate

And which iteration of Sheev?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And which iteration of Sheev?

RotS and DE.

The Emperor ca. ROTS can take any iteration of Valky, by virtue of being the more powerful Sith. I expect it would be quite close.

I told you, Valerian. Temp is one evil mother****er.

It's ok, Skillz. I got the answer I was looking for:

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I expect it would be quite close.

edit

So how 'bout dat argument?

There is no argument. I want things to remain as they are, the PT vs. SWTOR war going on around here is too much fun to simply toss aside. Actually, I've told you about my personal agenda for this forum. You should've known why I want things to remain as they are. You saying 'I expect it would be quite close' is all I wanted. For now.

Besides, I'm leaving in like 10 mins.

This isn't a PT vs SWTOR war. That ended years ago.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
This isn't a PT vs SWTOR war. That ended years ago.

Let me rephrase: Sheev vs. Valk.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
There is no argument. I want things to remain as they are, the PT vs. SWTOR war going on around here is too much fun to simply toss aside. Actually, I've told you about my personal agenda for this forum. You should've known why I want things to remain as they are. You saying 'I expect it would be quite close' is all I wanted. For now.

Besides, I'm leaving in like 10 mins.

You can't win, can you?

Valkorion is only a means to an end. The Godlander will rule this forum supreme.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You can't win, can you?


You trained me, so it'd be your failure if I can't tbh.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
You trained me, so it'd be your failure if I can't tbh.

A wise Master never reveals all his secrets.

Seriously. You're a sharp guy, knowledgeable about both characters, schooled well by a number of reputable debaters. You try to remain fairly moderate in the PT/SWTOR debate.

You're as credible as anyone to take up Valk's banner against me in, if not a debate, an honest conversation.

Okay, fine. I'll take that banner against you, but not today. I'll PM you during the week.

gewd

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Imho Vader being hindered (in some ways) has a lot more to do with his psychological state rather than his physical one.
Agreed.
Also, imo Vader didn't challenge Sidious because there was still so much he wanted to learn from him, such as the ability to "influence the midichlorians to create... LIFE"
lol

Originally posted by Beniboybling
It's OK, I get it, proving Malgus is more powerful than Vader must be tough these days.
I will wait for the story of Darth Vader to complete to formulate a final opinion about him; it remains be seen how the latest material will tie-in with OT based events.

As far as Darth Malgus is concerned, he have powers other then telekinesis and Palpatine's hype going for him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As far as Darth Malgus is concerned, he have powers other then telekinesis and Palpatine's hype going for him.

http://i.imgur.com/6Ag6ZEj.gif

Not sure what all the big deal is about with Vader being no.2 Sith to Palpatine. That was always the implied case even in Legends. The only thing that's been added in terms of information is him being confirmed > his ROTS self + Dooku/Maul.