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1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-out

No-holds-barred

Bump

Luke
Luke
Luke

Force - Luke wins, but barely, to be honest. I can even be persuaded to say it can go either way. Kun is capable of some resistance on his own, with Naga's aid and Ludo's small support they can very well win, especially given the diversity of Ancient's skills, quite honestly something on par with Luke. In a Force only fight, where you have one legit guy offering resistance and two guys with ****ed up Sorcery abilities, anything is possible. Naga and Ludo can come up with something sick while Kun does his best to survive the beating, for instance.

Sabers - Luke wins everytime. Ludo is close to nonfactor and Naga perishes like Maul against Palpatine. Kun doesn't hold a candle on his own.

All out - adding in lightsaber combat prevents Naga and Ludo from going nuts with alchemy and what we have here is a repetition of the sabers only fight, but taking longer.

Kun solos

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Bump

Luke
Luke
Luke

Stomps.

Originally posted by Azronger
Stomps.
Tbh-yeah, he could very well do. Kressh and Sadow aren't much more than dirt on his shoes, and an serious Luke should be able to ragdoll Kun.

Kek @ just ragdolling Kun

No one bothered to specify what luke this is.

An serious Luke ragdolls nearly everyone, who is Sub-Plagueis, imo.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
No one bothered to specify what luke this is.
We assume Prime, lol.

Kun solos.

Once again, unless someone states "Luke without his weaknesses", prime luke isn't curbstomping anyone.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Kun solos.
ily

If jobbing then I'd say the ancients could win. Otherwise Luke

Luke

Luke

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Once again, unless someone states "Luke without his weaknesses", prime luke isn't curbstomping anyone.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
no-holds-barred
I interpret that as serious Luke, so, yeah, he stomps all, bar maybe Kun.

I'd like to know how Luke isn't stomping someone who can't do any damage to him - neither with his lightsaber, nor his Force powers - and can just be blitzed.

Hmm that's Kun's weak point. He doesn't really have any decent speed feats

Originally posted by Azronger
I'd like to know how Luke isn't stomping someone who can't do any damage to him - neither with his lightsaber, nor his Force powers - and can just be blitzed. "ANYONE WHO IS WEAKER THEN ANOTHER CHARACTER CAN'T DO ANY DAMAGE TO THEM!"

Either of them is vastly superior to Luke, tho.

Well you'd have a point, if none of those 3 are doing any damage to him. Since that doesn't appear to be the case in any scenario, your point is moot.

Its Blasphemy, to compare them to Luke, lol. He bests Krassh and Sadow in seconds, and easily beats Kun after that.

So Kun is incapable of holding precious Luke off for a few minutes or even seconds so that Sadow and his bro can sorcery rape? Fools

Kressh and Sadow wouldn't affect his mind in the slightest.
And no, he could not.

He's not capable of holding off Luke for a single minute, tbh. But seconds, yes.

Not more than 10 on his best day

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Its Blasphemy, to compare them to Luke, lol. He bests Krassh and Sadow in seconds, and easily beats Kun after that.

Now THATS blasphemy.

Actually not. None of them are remotely close to a serious Luke, lol.

Luke's typical MO isn't just to lash out and completely smash the **** out of someone so Exar has a chance, especially when you know he's going to attack first. So whilst Luke is defending Kun and working out his style etc etc, Sadow gets his bitchy little ship, turns Luke into a sun then blows him up. Kressh doesn't have to do jack shit

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Luke's typical MO isn't just to lash out and completely smash the **** out someone so Exar has a chance, especially when you know he's going to attack first. So whilst Luke is defending Kun and working out his style etc etc, Sadow gets his bitchy little ship, turns Luke into a sun then blows him up. Kressh doesn't have to do jack shit
Yeah, a serious luke would aquash him like a bug, tho.
While manhandling Kun, Luke throws a brick at Kresshs head, so that he dies, and Kresshs dead body against Sadow, who also dies then. And then he beats Kun easily, or Kun joins the Light Side again

Nah, Luke takes one look at Kun's sexy pony tail and falls for him.

And Luke saw it. Three ancient Sith lords, under them sexy Exar Kun. The other two must be Kressh and Sadow. He know that they would attack him. He must finish them quickly, as he wanted to see Avatar the last Airbender in less than fifteen minutes. The Sith attacked him. Luke dodged all of their attacks, even Sadows brick. Kun was running incredible fast, to attack him-but by far not fast enough. With single kick from Luke, Kun was thrown in the air, and landed 300m far away. Kressh and Sadow started a collective attack, and together they throw 2 bricks at Luke! Luke countered with an four-ton stone. Both Sith Lords were instantly dead. Now Kun had his turn. "I am sorry", Luke said, "but I must see Avatar!" He kissed sexy Kun, before he killed him with a single lightsaber stroke.
But Luke hadn't an happy end. He must end an beef, between Zekk, Kyp and Jagged; as everyone of them wanted his niece. So he missed Avatar, and killed all of them. The End.

WTF did I just wrote?

Ruined every single character for me. Done with SW

YES! BEST PLAN EVER!

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Ruined every single character for me. Done with SW

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And Luke saw it. Three ancient Sith lords, under them sexy Exar Kun. The other two must be Kressh and Sadow. He know that they would attack him. He must finish them quickly, as he wanted to see Avatar the last Airbender in less than fifteen minutes. The Sith attacked him. Luke dodged all of their attacks, even Sadows brick. Kun was running incredible fast, to attack him-but by far not fast enough. With single kick from Luke, Kun was thrown in the air, and landed 300m far away. Kressh and Sadow started a collective attack, and together they throw 2 bricks at Luke! Luke countered with an four-ton stone. Both Sith Lords were instantly dead. Now Kun had his turn. "I am sorry", Luke said, "but I must see Avatar!" He kissed sexy Kun, before he killed him with a single lightsaber stroke.
But Luke hadn't an happy end. He must end an beef, between Zekk, Kyp and Jagged; as everyone of them wanted his niece. So he missed Avatar, and killed all of them. The End.

8.5/10 good book material

Thank you
Better than the Bane trilogy?

yiz

ludo kressh solos and possibly oneshots the old sith were the most powerful sith and would make luke look like a child. any of them could defeat him and in a team they destroy totally and within seconds this is a bloodbath this is a mismatch.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
ludo kressh solos and possibly oneshots the old sith were the most powerful sith and would make luke look like a child. any of them could defeat him and in a team they destroy totally and within seconds this is a bloodbath this is a mismatch.
Lmfao

Aaylasecura95, the voice of reason. Lmfao

Kun already beat Luke.

FotJ Luke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JA! Luke. Also, with help of Kyp. And, iirc, on a DS Nexus.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
FotJ Luke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JA! Luke. Also, with help of Kyp. And, iirc, on a DS Nexus. Luke peaked before FoTJ, I think he peaked a few years after DE.

Lol. He grows stronger through the whole time. While he imomwas only a bit stronger than his NJO self in FotJ, the're is an gap. Also, Luke hasn't feats that surpass Palpatine before the Very late NR/NJO era.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Lol. He grows stronger through the whole time. While he imomwas only a bit stronger than his NJO self in FotJ, the're is an gap. Also, Luke hasn't feats that surpass Palpatine before the Very late NR/NJO era. He doesn't have to.

He has accolades that recognize him as the strongest force user ever before that.

Don't ask me where to find those quotes, tho.

I'll search in his RT after them.

Luke's peak is confirmed to be during the Vong War, which is more than a decade after JA, but he later himself notes he feels more powerful than ever, or something along those lines.

Basically, FotJ Luke > LotF Luke > Vong War Luke >>> JA Luke. Not to mention Kun had an environmental amplification, and aditional aid from Kyp Durron who initially caught Skywalker off-guard, before Kun attacked him with sorcery he was, at the time, unfamiliar with.

Saying Exar Kun can beat GM Luke because he beat JA Luke through circumstances is straight up leukemia.

He ragdolled an opponent, who is above Kun

Originally posted by Jmanghan
"ANYONE WHO IS WEAKER THEN ANOTHER CHARACTER CAN'T DO ANY DAMAGE TO THEM!"

Lmao

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Well you'd have a point, if none of those 3 are doing any damage to him. Since that doesn't appear to be the case in any scenario, your point is moot.

Luke's Force defenses allow him to tank anything Kun - the strongest here - throws at him.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Hmm that's Kun's weak point. He doesn't really have any decent speed feats

He does, actually.

Lol for the nonsense aayla brings, you get the same nonsense from the ot crew. Its amusing.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Azronger
Concession accepted.

And once again i prove my point where a "concession accepted" means the person saying it not only lost the debate but has a serious case of denial.

Lol @Azronger losing the debate.

I like the debating tactic of the new teenagers on this forum.

1. Mumble incoherently
2. Continue posting regardless of position of strength or weakness.
3. Scream "concession accepted" to tell yourself you won.
4. Rinse and repeat.

concession accepted

Ahaha you two clowns are funny.

Luke wins with difficulty.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Ahaha you two clowns are funny. compliment accepted

concession accepted

Christ. The thought of someone actually losing a debate to you gives me Ebola. ^

Originally posted by MythLord
Luke's peak is confirmed to be during the Vong War, which is more than a decade after JA, but he later himself notes he feels more powerful than ever, or something along those lines.

Basically, FotJ Luke > LotF Luke > Vong War Luke >>> JA Luke. Not to mention Kun had an environmental amplification, and aditional aid from Kyp Durron who initially caught Skywalker off-guard, before Kun attacked him with sorcery he was, at the time, unfamiliar with.

Saying Exar Kun can beat GM Luke because he beat JA Luke through circumstances is straight up leukemia.

It should also be noted that even as of LotF, Jaina comments that she doesn't think Luke has shown her more than a fraction of his true power; and she was with him when he stormed Shimrra's palace.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It should also be noted that even as of LotF, Jaina comments that she doesn't think Luke has shown her more than a fraction of his true power; and she was with him when he stormed Shimrra's palace.

Was this the same Jaina who thought Caedus stopped blaster fighter from a cruiser? Because if we're going to take her word for it, we might as well believe Khem Val when he said Tulak Hord took down 1,000 jedi

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Was this the same Jaina who thought Caedus stopped blaster fighter from a cruiser?

I'm honestly confused; how was this a mistake again?

In either case, that a major PoV character made one mistake doesn't mean you can dismiss everything she notes, not when she has fought alongside Luke more frequently than maybe anyone else.



I wouldn't doubt that Hord did, just like how Lsu killed more sith than the thought bomb. That doesn't mean he could just kill them all at the same time while they're surrounding him or something.

Regardless, Jedi's inner thoughts are probably more accurate than the pandering of Val.

Because on no occasion do you offer the same courtesy to non PT characters regarding quotes such as this. In fact I'm pretty sure you've argued against things Kreia or Khem Val has said in the past. So the mistake is the double standard of you taking things certain characters say at face value while declaring others to be hearsay.


Wonderful, except I said no such thing. If Jaina says "the sky is currently blue", we don't dismiss it because she also said "I am the walrus". And that's nice that she fought with Luke. I'm sure if Khem Val fought with Hord even more, being his second in command basically. And even I'm not giving his quote any real recognition.



Don't be silly, you of course doubt it. And Khem Val said Hord did it in one battle, so naturally stuff like that even I would have to question. Hence, hyperbole.


Or jedi inner thoughts are less accurate than someone who used to eat the essence of force users, if we're going to rationalize here.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Because on no occasion do you offer the same courtesy to non PT characters regarding quotes such as this. In fact I'm pretty sure you've argued against things Kreia or Khem Val has said in the past. So the mistake is the double standard of you taking things certain characters say at face value while declaring others to be hearsay.


There are specific reasons to doubt the other instances you mention. I do not deny that Tulak Hord killed 1000 Jedi, for instance; I've just pointed out that plenty of characters on the level of Rastka Lsu and the Exile have done the same thing. It is a stretch to then extrapolate that Hord can literally kill 1000 Jedi surrounding him at the same time. That's not a double standard, it's looking at everything on a case by case basis.




See above. I do not deny Hord his killing a thousand Jedi, I just point out that this is an incredibly vague statement. How is Jaina's?



What makes you think I doubt it? The Exile did a similar thing to Traya's academy; this doesn't mean I think she's Vader tier. It's more of a feat of stamina than anything.



It's hardly an unreasonable rationalization that an ethical and experienced Jedi's inner thoughts are more reliable than the statements of a mass murdering villain thousands of years after the fact.

Beefy, if your only response is "It's nonsense!" then yes, that's a concession. And lol at you being so damn salty about it.

Yes, that was my response. That whole thing was my response. It's a hell of a lot better than "nah".


I've seen you argue against all of these simply because it was hearsay. That's my point. Yes, it's tough to believe Hord killed 1,000 Jedi in one sitting but remember at one point, someone was pushing the belief that Palpatine knew every force user ever and created new ones in his spare time. It depends on how much someone likes the character (sadly).


It's hearsay. Unless Jaina is an expert on force users, especially ones superior to her, she has no clue what she's talking about. She MAY be right but you can't claim she is while I have every authority to ask you to prove it.


This is nonsense. What exactly makes it a stamina feat? If character X is capable of killing off 20-30 force users at a time, then yes, they're superior to Vader. Also, remind me when the Exile did that? I know Traya did that to about 10-15 sith with her force drain (and that makes her superior to Vader in the force).


I like the way you phrase that to swing this particular part of the argument in your favor.

It's not unreasonable at all though but it can hardly qualify as evidence. What's more reasonable is someone who was second in command and ate the essence of force users by the dozens. There's little reason to doubt the authenticity of his claims because he was both in stasis and a "mass murdering villain" because neither point is relevant. But like I said, even I doubt the claim because it appears to be hyperbole.

The Exile faced a "legion" of Sith on Malachor V. Though she was unique in that she fed off each of her enemies' deaths.

Didn't Hord do the same, though?

Originally posted by SunRazer
The Exile faced a "legion" of Sith on Malachor V. Though she was unique in that she fed off each of her enemies' deaths.

Didn't Hord do the same, though?

That's like saying "Revan faced an army on the Star Forge". Don't really know the circumstances especially if it was constantly a 1-1 battle.

What Hord did apparently involved rituals to scare the crap out of his enemies on the battlefield. But Khem said it was in one battle, not throughout his lifetime or anything like that.

Who said we knew the circumstances for Hord's off-panel fights, lol?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Who said we knew the circumstances for Hord's off-panel fights, lol?

That's my point, lol. Although Val implies that it's his own rituals but it's as much hearsay as Jaina thinking Luke is using only a fraction of his power or Khem saying Hord destroyed 1,000 jedi, Revan was the heart of the force, etc.

I'm an economics guy (as in advanced), and that based on hard numbers, our economy should have collapsed a while ago. But it hasn't happened. So my alleged expertise don't really matter.

Pretty sure Hord had an army for his vaunted feat.

But yeah, beating armies of enemies that are basically fodder to you is mostly a feat of stamina and speed, primarily, since your skill is vastly above any of theirs.

Then there would be no need to mention that Hord destroyed 1,000 jedi with rituals.


Wait what? Stamina was mentioned regarding what happened on Malachor. Remind me how beating multiple opponents is a testament of stamina rather than force abilities? So Sidious defeating the B Team was stamina and not his lightsaber prowess? Kreia force draining 10-15 sith was stamina, not force abilities?

Khem said he did it solo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Khem said he did it solo.

That's my point. And we don't just take that at face value when it helps our argument because there IS a reason to be skeptical about some feats in the mythos (gathering force related works from a million worlds ahem ahem).

I was responding to Sunrazer.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I was responding to Sunrazer.

Well then...

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Then there would be no need to mention that Hord destroyed 1,000 jedi with rituals.

I didn't say that.



Remind me of the proof that Hord/Exile blitzed them or instakilled them. Otherwise, completely incomparable examples.

I think you missed the point. You can't just claim "stamina" when facing multiple opponents. My examples denote lightsaber/force superiority. If you want to add speed/stamina into that equation sure, but those two attributes come from lightsaber/force superiority.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Khem said he did it solo.

And more reliable sources disagree.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I think you missed the point. You can't just claim "stamina" when facing multiple opponents. My examples denote lightsaber/force superiority. If you want to add speed/stamina into that equation sure, but those two attributes come from lightsaber/force superiority.

Obviously there's superiority. I argue it for the Exile on a regular basis. I'm just saying that there's a point where this superiority plateaus and it's mostly stamina doing the work from then on.

Well unlike you I own those sources and they do not.

Uh like what? And more reliable? Lol. Are they more reliable because you want them to disagree? Please enlighten us.


You can't really argue that because you can't quantify stamina in any theoretical debate.

I own the Encyclopedia, so I can correct myself or check something if you give me a quote. And the codex entries can be accessed online.

And I've finished Inquisitor, but that was long ago. Still, even checking through Ant's RT invalidates Khem's claim, since Khem himself was fighting alongside Hord to conquer the Jedi army. There's also a quote about Hord leading an army into battle, unless it refers to the other one.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Uh like what? And more reliable? Lol. Are they more reliable because you want them to disagree? Please enlighten us.

More reliable because it's third-person and objective. I mean TOR's codex entries and the Encyclopedia. Yeah, more reliable than Kiss-ass Val.



You can't quantify the level of skill involved either, so we're at an impasse.

I'm still waiting on the quotes that are more reliable. Also lol@kiss Val. I suppose Jaina's a kiss ass as well?


Of course we can. We know Palpatine was superior to the B team in the force and in saber abilities. There's nothing to quantify there. Stamina requires quantification on any level.

Chabosh is the battle where Khem and his army fought with him. Yn was a siege that Hord broke single-handedly.

The Encyclopedia only says Khem consumed dead Jedi at Yn. The codex says Hord ate the power of Jedi at Yn and Chabosh and that he fought at them. It does say he used an army of dark side warriors in battle but nothing about specific battles.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I'm still waiting on the quotes that are more reliable. Also lol@kiss Val. I suppose Jaina's a kiss ass as well?

Depends on who Jaina's talking about.

For the quotes:





Khem fought alongside him, and the army of dark side warriors, unless they were just watching, would've also been involved.



Yeah, cuz he blitzed. Prove that Hord destroyed the Jedi in a comparable amount of time.

If we're taking character statements at face value, then Sidious claims that Vader's skills are unmatched by any Sith before him, and Thame Cerulian claims that Dooku is a better swordsman than any Jedi in the Order, including Yoda. And Anakin claims that Obi-Wan is as powerful as Mace, etc.

We're not discussing personal opinions, lol. Khem is telling us about an event he witnessed that actually happened. Unless you think he's lying or he hallucinated it you don't have cause to think he's wrong about it. It isn't an opinion.

Your second quote says Hord had an army and Khem, it doesn't mention how he used them in specific battles.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We're not discussing personal opinions, lol. Khem is telling us about an event he witnessed that actually happened. Unless you think he's lying or he hallucinated it you don't have cause to think he's wrong about it.

Your second quote says Hord had an army and Khem, it doesn't mention how he used them in specific battles.

What makes you think Khem isn't trying to glorify Hord by exaggerating details? You know, this is the only person in his life who gave him purpose, who defeated him at full strength in a fair battle, and to whom he's still basically trying to re-enter the servitude of. Alternatively, what makes you think that his memory wasn't affected, as Ajunta Pall's was in KotOR?

The quote also claims that Khem fought alongside Hord, so it's obviously not Hord doing it solo, as Khem claimed. There's already a contradiction. At the end of the day, no matter how you choose to justify the discrepancy (or choose not to justify it at all), Khem's claims are flat-out contradicted by objective sources. He's not a reliable source.

My quote also states that he had them by his side, so unless you're suggesting that the army and Khem just watched on as Hord solo'd the Jedi, then yeah, they were used. Not to mention that we know Khem fought by Tulak Hord's side, so the army of dark side warriors that were also by his side would've been logically involved in an identical manner.

What makes you think he is? The burden of proof would be on you. I like how we go from a hyperbolic quote to one that could possibly be used, and Khem Val becomes "kiss ass Khem". At least pretend you're being objective here?


You haven't provided any of these objective sources and if he's not reliable, I guess neither is Jaina?



An army can have jedi and soldiers. His army could be fighting the soldiers while he carries out his ritual against the Jedi. There's your plausible scenario (not that I'm using it).

Originally posted by SunRazer
What makes you think Khem isn't trying to glorify Hord by exaggerating details? You know, this is the only person in his life who gave him purpose, who defeated him at full strength in a fair battle, and to whom he's still basically trying to re-enter the servitude of. Alternatively, what makes you think that his memory wasn't affected, as Ajunta Pall's was in KotOR?

The quote also claims that Khem fought alongside Hord, so it's obviously not Hord doing it solo, as Khem claimed. There's already a contradiction. At the end of the day, no matter how you choose to justify the discrepancy (or choose not to justify it at all), Khem's claims are flat-out contradicted by objective sources. He's not a reliable source.

My quote also states that he had them by his side, so unless you're suggesting that the army and Khem just watched on as Hord solo'd the Jedi, then yeah, they were used. Not to mention that we know Khem fought by Tulak Hord's side, so the army of dark side warriors that were also by his side would've been logically involved in an identical manner.

The very fact that Khem respects Hords strength is what suggests he wouldn't feel the need to exaggerate it. That's pathetic and would make Hord unworthy of Khem's high opinion. And I don't need to give you a reason for why he isn't doing something, that would be proving a negative. You need to prove that Khem is exaggerating. Which is impossible. Khem never died like Pall did, nor did he spend millennia in despair. He was just in stasis. There's no reason to doubt his memories other than that you want to.

No it doesn't. You're getting your battles mixed up. Khem fought with him at Chabosh, as the quote says. Yn is the siege where Hord solo'd the attackers. There is no contradiction.

No, it doesn't. Your quote is speaking about the whole conflict, not any specific battle. Hord had an army and Khem at his side for the war as a whole, which doesn't mean he couldn't have fought solo. Khem flat out says Hord did it solo. His account is the most reliable and specific.

I think the only thing unreliable here, is your objectivity in reviewing these sources. You're clearly twisting them for your agenda. Just admit you were wrong and we can discuss Hord's strength in earnest.

This whole argument proves bias and renders all of these arguments moot. The PT/OT/NJO crowd will argue to death about quotes regarding the ancients while taking those for the PT/OT/NJO at face value. The ancient sith crowd turns around and does the same thing. Then the winner declares himself the winner by either posting the longest or saying "concession accepted" and the cycle begins anew.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We're not discussing personal opinions, lol. Khem is telling us about an event he witnessed that actually happened. Unless you think he's lying or he hallucinated it you don't have cause to think he's wrong about it. It isn't an opinion.

Your second quote says Hord had an army and Khem, it doesn't mention how he used them in specific battles. SunRazer uses double standards all the time.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
compliment accepted

concession accepted

Originally posted by SunRazer
I didn't say that.



Remind me of the proof that Hord/Exile blitzed them or instakilled them. Otherwise, completely incomparable examples. Hahah. You first respond falsely without knowing better than casually dismiss it showing ignorance and later bias at the same time. Double standards are your thing. It only counts when your guy does it.

Damn, owned.

You gonna take that Sunloser?

The notion that someone wouldn't exaggerate another person's qualities because they respect that quality is outright retarded. KV can absolutely respect TH's strength and still embellish. People do that in the real world all the goddamn time lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Damn, owned.

You gonna take that Sunloser? The mental gymnastics this guy uses all the time to reach his biased conclusions support his own agenda. What I'm not 100 percent sure of is if he is delusional or aware he's biased.

I've never done that. All of my statements are 101% facts.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
What makes you think he is? The burden of proof would be on you. I like how we go from a hyperbolic quote to one that could possibly be used, and Khem Val becomes "kiss ass Khem". At least pretend you're being objective here?

Well, objective would at least accept that Khem of all people was wrong and that he was fighting alongside Hord, which kills off the notion of Hord fighting them solo.



I provided both of them. Are you even following this discussion? You decided to respond to my points to Neph, not to you, anyway.

Never said Jaina was objective or reliable. I also asked what you quote of Jaina's in particular you were referring to, and you refused to answer me there. So I couldn't possibly comment.



Who said he killed them with a ritual? What's all this ritual talk even about?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Damn, owned.

You gonna take that Sunloser?

I don't care what Quanchi has to say to me, lol. Especially when it comes to double standards.

SunRazer give me an instance where I have used a double standard. You're in the midst of doing it right now.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
This whole argument proves bias and renders all of these arguments moot. The PT/OT/NJO crowd will argue to death about quotes regarding the ancients while taking those for the PT/OT/NJO at face value. The ancient sith crowd turns around and does the same thing. Then the winner declares himself the winner by either posting the longest or saying "concession accepted" and the cycle begins anew.
Most of the ancients quotes ars vague. Honestly, I am okay with taking Hord has beaten 1000 Jedi as fact value, but not that Ancients>>>>>>>Traya/Exile thing, as Traya has never met them.
Ragnos quote, that make him superior to all Ancient Sith was countered/destroyed by Wollf.
The quotes of New Characters are usually clear. Like a dozen sources said that Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time. Maybe you can counter one or two of this quotes, but not all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
SunRazer give me an instance where I have used a double standard. You're in the midst of doing it right now.

You've denied it every time it's come up. So why would I bother?

It's tiring when discussions on the forum devolve into quests to prove the others guilty of double standards and ad hominems and what not. Use those terms with restraint, lol.

Ok so we're all in agreement that everyone uses their own bias to take some quotes at face value, while furiously arguing others? Great, now we can close down this subforum.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You've denied it every time it's come up. So why would I bother?

It's tiring when discussions on the forum devolve into quests to prove the others guilty of double standards and ad hominems and what not. Use those terms with restraint, lol. Well they are frustrating when you see people accept them for certain characters and try to find whatever red herring to dismiss them for the characters you do not support. An example would help make your case. Examples always help illustrate your points.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Ok so we're all in agreement that everyone uses their own bias to take some quotes at face value, while furiously arguing others? Great, now we can close down this subforum.
No. If a sourbokk says "Hord killed 1000 Jedi" or "Sidious is the greatest Sith" we can take that as fact.
If someone who knows Hord and seen the feat, we can take it also as fact value.
If now Traya, who never met Hord, says Hord>>>>>>>>>>>>herself, no, we can't take that as fact.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well they are frustrating when you see people accept them for certain characters and try to find whatever red herring to dismiss them for the characters you do not support. An example would help make your case. Examples always help illustrate your points.

Uh, no. I've found quotes for Mace > Dooku, countering the Nihilus/Traya Drain being an instakill notion, etc.

If I find a quote, I share it without twisting it, even if it's against my favorites.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Uh, no. I've found quotes for Mace > Dooku, countering the Nihilus/Traya Drain being an instakill notion, etc.

If I find a quote, I share it without twisting it, even if it's against my favorites.


SR even recently made a thread debunking the notion that Nihilus's drain is an instakill and he's one of the biggest fans of KOTOR2 and its characters out there.

I don't agree with him on everything, but his integrity is above reproach.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Uh, no. I've found quotes for Mace > Dooku, countering the Nihilus/Traya Drain being an instakill notion, etc.

If I find a quote, I share it without twisting it, even if it's against my favorites. Why do you think so many accuse you of double standards then ?

I could ask you the same. Nobody's infallible. But I do think I have more of a bipartisan record than most here. I've proven that I'm willing to go against my favorites. Although I've also proven that I have questionable interpretations of quotes, but I guess that turns up enough in debates that I don't have to bring it up, lol.

I admit Windu bested Palpatine despite thinking Windu is one of the most unappealing and boring characters in Star Wars. The reason I do is the movie confirms it. I go by the evidence. I'm an evidentiary based debater.

Well, you might think that. But of course, I couldn't possibly comment.