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*Sabers only

So, after making Sedriss vs Aurra for me today, you know make Revan vs Kenobi for Ant? Interesting.

Kenobi wins by a notch, btw.

Kenobi.

Revan, Kenobi has superior defensive skill obviously; but Revan's skill is easily comparable and his aug is leagues beyond Kenobi's.

Can't see OP, but Kenobi should stalemate Reborn in a duel, and take Mando wars in Force and all-out.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Can't see OP, but Kenobi should stalemate Reborn in a duel, and take Mando wars in Force and all-out.
Sabers only.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Sabers only.

Elli still get's very upset about my views apparently.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Can't see OP, but Kenobi should stalemate Reborn in a duel, and take Mando wars in Force and all-out.
I doubt it. Revan's better than Nihilus even as of MW.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I doubt it. Revan's better than Nihilus even as of MW.

Give me a call when MW Revan holds together capital ships in light speed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I doubt it. Revan's better than Nihilus even as of MW.

There's one and only one piece of evidence for this, and that's Meetra's opinion. I'm not sure if that's enough for such an extraordinary claim.

It's enough. Also:

"Revan had a mother and father, parents, ancestors, like all Jedi do. And when he awakened to his potential, I was there to see it."

The above quote makes me believe that much of Revan's power was already realized by the MW, and rather the Revan incarnations mark the greatest distinction in mastery, knowledge, and mind-set, not power.

When did she say that?

During the speech with the infamous "heart of the Force" accolade.

But isn't your position predicated on the notion that Meetra has no idea how powerful post-mando wars Revan is? So how could she know if he had realized his potential?

As per the quote, much of Revan's potential was realized even *before* going into the Mandalorian Wars.

However, I'm referring to the Exile's lack of knowledge of his notable, but not unprecedented, increase in power from the MW to later incarnations.

So Revan can be more powerful than Darth Nihilus as of the MW because much of his potential is realizeD, but also "far more powerful" when his potential has fully been realized in SWTOR:R.

Oh, I thought that was Meetra speaking.

Honestly, I think you're attributing way too much precision to characters' language. Like, "awakened to his potential" could just mean "got a f*ckton more powerful". If we played this game with, say, KMC members, we could come to all sorts of ridiculous conclusions about people's lives. Nobody uses language to the level of perfection your train of thought requires.

This also contradicts the claims in TOR that Revan has become more powerful than any Jedi could have imagined. EDIT: oh, you edited

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Oh, I thought that was Meetra speaking.

Honestly, I think you're attributing way too much precision to characters' language. Like, "awakened to his potential" could just mean "got a f*ckton more powerful". If we played this game with, say, KMC members, we could come to all sorts of ridiculous conclusions about people's lives. Nobody uses language to the level of perfection your train of thought requires.

This also contradicts the claims in TOR that Revan has become more powerful than any Jedi could have imagined. EDIT: oh, you edited
The quote was by Kreia.

When all we have to go off of is character language, it's essential to analyze it.

I interpret that quote as hyperbole in the extent of the claim (i.e. he's not beyond imagination), but fact in regards to Revan's vast superiority over any other Jedi in history to that point.

Doesn't it also not mesh well with Malak's claim that Revan is more powerful than he ever was as a dark lord? That could hardly apply to knowledge, given that Revan wasn't too far removed from having started his training from scratch.

Note that if you think that Malak was close to Darth Revan, the gap has to be pretty large, given that Malak presumably grew more powerful afterwards, and was amped by the star forge, and then faced a fatigued Revan.

Obviously, Revan would have the edge with superior force augmentation, but if this is just a duel designed to test saber skill (which I have always assumed sabers only meant), it'd be a good match. Revan isn't the sort of the duelist to make the mistakes Maul and Anakin got punished for (he'd be wise to Obiwan's schtik from the getgo), so I could see this battle going on for a while with neither making any headway. Would love to see it animated.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Doesn't it also not mesh well with Malak's claim that Revan is more powerful than he ever was as a dark lord? That could hardly apply to knowledge, given that Revan wasn't too far removed from having started his training from scratch.

Note that if you think that Malak was close to Darth Revan, the gap has to be pretty large, given that Malak presumably grew more powerful afterwards, and was amped by the star forge, and then faced a fatigued Revan.
I'm not arguing there's no power growth, but I don't think it's as big as you're making it out to be.

If SoR Revan can one-shot Kenobi, I imagine MW Revan is at least superior in the Force for the reasons I highlighted.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Revan, Kenobi has superior defensive skill obviously; but Revan's skill is easily comparable and his aug is leagues beyond Kenobi's.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm not arguing there's no power growth, but I don't think it's as big as you're making it out to be.

If SoR Revan can one-shot Kenobi, I imagine MW Revan is at least superior in the Force for the reasons I highlighted.

I don't think you have much evidence that the power growth was slight; just an over-analysis of a colloquial statement by a pathological liar isn't enough. Or do you also buy her claim that the ancient sith were far beyond Revan?


Meanwhile, I think the most reasonable claim would be that Revan, on the massive amount of knowledge he allocated in his journeys after the Mando wars, depicted through his holocron, would have gotten a sizable boost in power. It's happened for other sith, like Bane (going from being "no match" for Kas'im to beating him, with the only activity in the middle being Revan's holocron), Exar Kun, Caedus, etc. It also hardly makes sense that Revan would have achieved most of his potential by his, what, late twenties?

And again, there's the fact of the matter that Darth Revan apparently isn't that far above Malak, but then a fatigued KotOR Revan defeated a stronger version of Malak who was being amped by the star forge. That hardly seems like a slight growth to me.

Likewise, there's Revan's substantially superior performance against Vitiate the second time around, and his confidence in SoR that he was now more powerful than him. Plus, the "more powerful than any Jedi could imagine" doesn't sound like "only slightly more powerful than the Revan everyone was very familiar with".

Revan.

Revan's probably Anakin-tier as a warrior. He wins.

Mando Wars Revan is probably more powerful than Kenobi in the force.

That said, theres a substantial difference in strength between Mando Wars Revan and Kotor Revan and another substantial difference between Kotor Revan and SoR Revan.

In the gap between Kenobi and Maul.

Revan wins, his precognition, augmentation and his ambidextrous use of the lightsaber forms is too much.

Being ambidextrous is hardly noteworthy and y'all seriously overrate precog.