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Dooku vs Kit Fisto, Saesee Tinn and Agen Kolar

The B Team is sent to take out Count Dooku, who wins?

If he abuses his power, Dooku.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If he abuses his power, Dooku.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If he abuses his power, Dooku.

Dooku has little problem dealing with multiple Jedi. He wins.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If he abuses his power, Dooku.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If he abuses his power, Dooku.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If he abuses his power, Dooku.
If he does, yeah

Probably the B-Team.

B-Team, IMO.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
B-Team, IMO.

I doubt the 3 can break his defense before he can incapacitate one of them with his powers. So Dooku wins.

I don't see him taking on 3 Ventresses. He could probably abuse TK and lighting but it's iffy. They're not breaking his defenses but Dooku will have a difficult time penetrating theirs with them dog-piling him. He tires out in sabers but wins via force spam.

Originally posted by Kurk
I don't see him taking on 3 Ventresses. He could probably abuse TK and lighting but it's iffy. They're not breaking his defenses but Dooku will have a difficult time penetrating theirs with them dog-piling him. He tires out in sabers but wins via force spam.

Ventress pre-prime solidly defeated Fisto who I consider to be a head above the other two. +Filoni flat out states Savage (roughly on par with Ventress) fares far better than these 3 against Sidious.

Ventress is also far above these guys in the force.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Filoni flat out states Savage (roughly on par with Ventress) fairs far better than these 3 against Sidious.

Can I get the quote for this?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Can I get the quote for this?

http://www.starwars.com/video/wrath-of-the-sith

"He puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did I'll say that much" 1:25

Filoni is a literal cancer.

Because an all out Sidious blitzing B-team is comparable to a Sidious toying with Savage

Originally posted by Kurk
Because an all out Sidious blitzing B-team is comparable to a Sidious toying with Savage Filoni's quote means jack shit.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
http://www.starwars.com/video/wrath-of-the-sith

"He puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did I'll say that much" 1:25


It's funny how people quote Filoni all day about how Sidious enjoyed his fight with the brothers, and how they could never touch him e.t.c. but then they shy away from this quote, almost like it was never said.

And this one is from the official episode featurette as well


Originally posted by Kurk
Because an all out Sidious blitzing B-team is comparable to a Sidious toying with Savage


Doesn't matter because toying or not the 3 stooges couldn't have fought as well against Sidious as per Filoni

Filoni didn't say they couldn't have fought as well as Savage against Sidious, merely that they didn't, and given the context that's because of the fact Sidious was ****ing with Savage. Savage's and the B-Team's fight with Sidious is inocomparable because of this and Filoni's quote proves literally nothing.

Sidious literally pins the bothers up against the windows with them unable to do anything about it before he allows them to fight him. Savage only did better because Sidious let him.

B-Team pushes his shit in.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Filoni didn't say they couldn't have fought as well as Savage against Sidious, merely that they didn't, and given the context that's because of the fact Sidious was ****ing with Savage. Savage's and the B-Team's fight with Sidious is inocomparable because of this and Filoni's quote proves literally nothing.

It proves the double standards and bias when it comes to using Filoni quotes actually.


And for Once, He was quite clear about the context. He specifically Credited Savage for doing better than the B-Team. He doesn't pin it on Sidious screwing around. And this on the official episode featurette no less.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious literally pins the bothers up against the windows with them unable to do anything about it before he allows them to fight him. Savage only did better because Sidious let him.



Well given Sidious never TK'd the B-Team that really proves nothing about Savage's superior performance in the Saber fight afterwards.


Sidious toying and Savage fighting better than the B-Team are not 2 mutually exclusive things.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It proves the double standards and bias when it comes to using Filoni quotes actually. No, it proves yet again you can't grasp the context of the situation Filoni is talking about.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And for Once, He was quite clear about the context. He specifically Credited Savage for doing better than the B-Team. And we know from his various other quotes and from the episode itself that Sidious was not trying against Savage.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He doesn't pin it on Sidious screwing around. He doesn't pin it on anything because it was a brief comment. He didn't say Savage was better than the B-Team -- he says he did better than them, because he did -- he lasted longer, but we know that was because Sidious was toying with him, (his casual body language, his laughter, various sources and Filoni's quotes regarding Sidious's attitude during the fight). Compare that with Sidious's complete bloodlust in RotS when he was pulling no punches, and it's obvious that using Sidious as a benchmark for comparing Savage and the B-Team is ridiculous.

It's essentially fundamentalist logic what Filoni said.

Think of the "facts" a certain user on these forums would use to argue against everything and anything against his favorite character

KJ's right on everything in that last post. The context makes Filoni's quote absolutely irrelevant.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious literally pins the bothers up against the windows with them unable to do anything about it before he allows them to fight him. Savage only did better because Sidious let him.

That's definitely not what the quote says. He gives Savage more credit than the Jedi Council meaning even if Sidious was toying with the B-Team they would not have done as well as Savage.

The point of what he said is clearly that Savage>B-Team. And he doesn't say 'Sidious was playing around so he lasts longer than the B-Team' he says 'He does better than the Jedi Council I'll *give him that*. He's giving Savage an accolade. Deal with it.

Dooku was fighting Ventress and Opress without his lightsaber for a bit.

He wins this.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's definitely not what the quote says. He gives Savage more credit than the Jedi Council meaning even if Sidious was toying with the B-Team they would not have done as well as Savage.

The point of what he said is clearly that Savage>B-Team. And he doesn't say 'Sidious was playing around so he lasts longer than the B-Team' he says 'He does better than the Jedi Council I'll *give him that*. He's giving Savage an accolade. Deal with it.

You basically said "screw the context, I want Savage > the B-team so that's what the quote says!"

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's definitely not what the quote says. He gives Savage more credit than the Jedi Council meaning even if Sidious was toying with the B-Team they would not have done as well as Savage.

The point of what he said is clearly that Savage>B-Team. And he doesn't say 'Sidious was playing around so he lasts longer than the B-Team' he says 'He does better than the Jedi Council I'll *give him that*. He's giving Savage an accolade. Deal with it.
All he said was that he did better than the B Team, which he did. Not that he's better.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You basically said "screw the context, I want Savage > the B-team so that's what the quote says!"

Lol no you are trying to add your spin to a very straightforward statement. Sidious holding back and Savage being stronger than the B-Team aren't mutually exclusive.

He's saying that within the context of both scenarios Savage's performance is better. If I take a test and automatically get a bonus of 20 points and score 100% and you take a test and score 50% I still performed better than you regardless of the bonus.

Originally posted by Rebel95
All he said was that he did better than the B Team, which he did. Not that he's better.

He was giving him an accolade. He says 'I'll give him this'. The phrasing is him giving Savage a prop up. And the prop up is a simultaneous put down of the B-Team. If he wanted to say what you are saying he said he'd say it.

Given that as of Canon, the B-Team(why is this a name anyway? Did I miss something?) only has Fisto and Mace as worthwhile, while Tiin and Kolar don't have anything. Savage being > to them isn't that far fetched.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol no you are trying to add your spin to a very straightforward statement.

The only person adding a spin here is you. All the quote says is that Savage did better. Which he did, by actually landing a strike on Sidious and lasting longer.

But it's irrelevant in a debate because we know that Sidious held back immensely against Savage. Shadow Conspiracy makes it blatantly obvious that at his fastest, Sidious could've blitzed Maul, never mind Savage.



No, they're not, but neither are they inclusive by any merit, including this quote.



Right, and the context is that Sidious held back against Savage. So in that context, Savage did better, but seeing as Sidious held back anyway, it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The only person adding a spin here is you. All the quote says is that Savage did better. Which he did, by actually landing a strike on Sidious and lasting longer.

No it doesn't you are missing the critical element of Filoni's intent being to give him an accolade, not emphasize that Sidious was holding back or putting in less effort.




Sidious isn't in this thread. + I've never argued Sidious couldn't blitz Savage.



Mmm I think they are. If I say 'I'll give you this, you fared way better against Muhammad Ali than I did.' The implication is clear that you are better than me, because you are giving me an accolade. Unless its a tongue in cheek jab at Ali holding back, which Filoni is clearly not making in that context.




Yes it does. Because if Filoni didn't want to give Savage an accolade putting him above the B-Team, why make the statement in the first place? You are either being intentionally obtuse or you are failing to grasp the intent behind Filoni saying that in the first place.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No it doesn't you are missing the critical element of Filoni's intent being to give him an accolade, not emphasize that Sidious was holding back or putting in less effort.

I didn't say that his intent was to emphasize Sidious was holding back. I just said that when you apply that context, the accolade becomes less impressive.



I said "in a thread", not this thread.



Or maybe it's just a statement that I lasted longer in a fight? Maybe Muhammad Ali had had three knives in his back when I fought him.

Quotes don't always make direct reference to context. It's our job to put it in.



Well, considering in the discussion Filoni says "being killed by Sidious is a good feat", he could well be making a jab, lol.

Anyways, it's not hard to understand. Performing better against Sidious than the B-team and being stronger than the B-team are not the same things. Filoni's quote only validates the former notion.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I didn't say that his intent was to emphasize Sidious was holding back. I just said that when you apply that context, the accolade becomes less impressive.

No it doesn't because Filoni was applying the accolade within the context of the fight. He thinks in spite of Sidious holding back Savage is still the superior combatant. Which is pretty much confirmed given that Savage is superior to Ventress and has trounced Adi Gallia. Savage is beyond the B-Team, obviously not as a group, but individually Savage would defeat any of them quite handily imo.



Yeah I am just saying it seems kind of irrelevant.




Which again is a pointless statement. Filoni made it a point to directly compare the performances. That's how language works, you make a statement to convey a point. You are putting way too much analysis into a simple statement. So at this point I'd refer you to Occam's razor and call it a day.



No it isn't. Filoni knows the context of his own show. It is by no means your job to put his words into any context.




He's obviously not making a jab.

You are complicating a matter that doesn't need complicating. And no he's not saying its a good feat he's saying its an honorable way to go out because he's the best combatant in the galaxy sans perhaps Yoda at that time.



Filoni's statement clearly outlines that he believes Savage is superior to the B-Team (individually). And at this point I'm pretty sure you are just arguing for the sake of arguing because Savage's feats absolutely shit on even Kit Fisto who is the strongest member of the B-Team. Filoni simply cements what he's already shown by having Savage trounce Adi Gallia and defeat Ventress, most Jedi Masters are no match for Savage Oppress Kit Fisto and co. are not exceptions to that.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No it doesn't because Filoni was applying the accolade within the context of the fight. He thinks in spite of Sidious holding back Savage is still the superior combatant.
Is that what he said? No, all he said was that he performed better than the B team. He doesn't say anything about the context of the fight. I agree that savage is better than anyone in the B Team, but now you're just making stuff up.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Is that what he said? No, all he said was that he performed better than the B team. He doesn't say anything about the context of the fight. I agree that savage is better than anyone in the B Team, but now you're just making stuff up.


He's not making anything up. Filoni does give context. He specifically credits Savage for his better performance, and doesn't put it down to Palpatine.

Otherwise why did he even bring it up?

Now I personally don't have Savage above Fisto in Sabers. But trying to add context to Filoni's words which he never implied is outright deceiving. Filoni said that, and I'm just calling out the double standards on when people choose to take his words as Canon and when they selectively choose to ignore him.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He's not making anything up. Filoni does give context. He specifically credits Savage for his better performance, and doesn't put it down to Palpatine.

Otherwise why did he even bring it up?

Now I personally don't have Savage above Fisto in Sabers. But trying to add context to Filoni's words which he never implied is outright deceiving. Filoni said that, and I'm just calling out the double standards on when people choose to take his words as Canon and when they selectively choose to ignore him.
That's great but Lord Stark said that in spite of Sidious holding back Filoni still thinks Savage is the superior combatant, which could be true but the statement itself doesn't say so. You can interpret it how you want, but it only says that he performed better. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Is that what he said? No, all he said was that he performed better than the B team. He doesn't say anything about the context of the fight. I agree that savage is better than anyone in the B Team, but now you're just making stuff up.

Filoni directed the episode of course he's taking into account that Sidious was holding back. Its right after it plays a clip of the bloody fight. Also he says this:

"You know being taken out by Sidious, pretty good, it ranks up there, he puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did I'll say that much for him."


He's clearly wanted to show Savage wasn't as much of a chump in the scene as Kit, and the rest of the Councilors. That's why when Sidious kills him he has to put in WAY more effort than when he kills the Councilors. I really don't understand how you can watch that clip and think Filoni's intention was anything other than Savage>B-Team.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If he abuses his power, Dooku.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Ventress pre-prime solidly defeated Fisto who I consider to be a head above the other two. +Filoni flat out states Savage (roughly on par with Ventress) fares far better than these 3 against Sidious.

Ventress is also far above these guys in the force.

When does Ventress beat Fisto?

In Cestus Deception.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Filoni directed the episode of course he's taking into account that Sidious was holding back. Its right after it plays a clip of the bloody fight. Also he says this:

"You know being taken out by Sidious, pretty good, it ranks up there, he puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did I'll say that much for him."


He's clearly wanted to show Savage wasn't as much of a chump in the scene as Kit, and the rest of the Councilors. That's why when Sidious kills him he has to put in WAY more effort than when he kills the Councilors. I really don't understand how you can watch that clip and think Filoni's intention was anything other than Savage>B-Team.




Pretty much, yeah. It's silly even arguing this.

People are welcome to make the case that Fisto =/> Savage. But Filoni's belief on it is pretty clear and states the opposite.

He also had an edge over Plo Koon before growing more powerful, Savage is above Council-tier yeah.

Obviously Savage is above any of the Council Members individually. Not above all three, though

Point is: Savage, whether superior or inferior to Agen/Kit/Saesee, wouldn't have faired better than them against an all-out Sheev.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Obviously Savage is above any of the Council Members individually. Not above all three, though


Yeah but it's not like Sheev actually fought the 3 of them simultaneously.


Originally posted by MythLord
Point is: Savage, whether superior or inferior to Agen/Kit/Saesee, wouldn't have faired better than them against an all-out Sheev.


Well Fisto faired better than the other 2, so there's no reason to say Savage wouldn't fair better than Fisto (in Sabers), even if it means just blocking 2-3 more strikes than he did.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He also had an edge over Plo Koon before growing more powerful, Savage is above Council-tier yeah. What episode was this?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Pretty much, yeah. It's silly even arguing this.

People are welcome to make the case that Fisto =/> Savage. But Filoni's belief on it is pretty clear and states the opposite.
I don't think anyone was ever arguing that, the dispute was simply over the interpretation of Filoni's statement

Thor still struggling after all these years with Sheev effortlessly curbing Savage and Maul.

Make up your mind bro.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Thor still struggling after all these years with Sheev effortlessly curbing Savage and Maul.

Make up your mind bro.



I could sense this topic would attract you out of retirement. But please pay attention before commenting:

1) This is about Savage and the B-Team. Has little to do with Palpatine.

2) It's not even about my opinion, but about Filoni's.

3) It's not even me who brought it up.

Your perpetual issue is that Savage is fodder for the Emperor, just like the B-Team crew.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your perpetual issue is that Savage is fodder for the Emperor, just like the B-Team crew.


Lol where have I stated or even hinted I had an issue with that as of late?

Heck Savage is almost fodder even for Maul, Obi-Wan or Dooku.

So you embrace the fact that Sheev is better than your favorite characters in all ways, including but not limited to importance, success, power, strength, skill, speed, agility, reflexes, knowledge, mastery, charisma, intellect, and sexual prowess?

All except the sexual prowess.

Anakin was never hard for Palpatine the way Ezra is for Maul.

Damn... Sheev has less sexual prowess than a dude with no penis?

You gonna take that sick burn Temp?

I think he's going to take it.

Unlike Quan.

#We'reNotGoingToTakeIt

#TrueSaviorOfThisForum

#StarTrekTrumpsStarWars9TimesOutOf10

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova


#StarTrekTrumpsStarWars9TimesOutOf10


Latest Star Trek flopped.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Latest Star Trek flopped.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

It's out? Huh...didn't notice.

Although what do you mean by flopped?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
It's out? Huh...didn't notice.

Although what do you mean by flopped?


Lol, it's not out anymore though. Already on Blu-Ray.

I doubt it made it's money back:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek2016.htm

On a budget of $185million, it's worldwide total was $343million. And only $158million was from domestic sales.

So when you factor in marketing costs, and the cut theaters take (they take much more internationally than they do domestically), it's very unlikely that it made it's money back.


Btw even the least grossing of the Prequels made the kind of numbers these NuTrek movies can only dream of. And that was AOTC which was like 14 years ago Lol.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol, it's not out anymore though. Already on Blu-Ray.

I doubt it made it's money back:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek2016.htm

On a budget of $185million, it's worldwide total was $343million. And only $158million was from domestic sales.

So when you factor in marketing costs, and the cut theaters take (they take much more internationally than they do domestically), it's very unlikely that it made it's money back.


Btw even the least grossing of the Prequels made the kind of numbers these NuTrek movies can only dream of. And that was AOTC which was like 14 years ago Lol.

Oh...huh, didn't even notice it was out tbh, much less already on Blu-Ray.

Wait so then what is Quan talking about December for??

I kept thinking that's when the movie was coming out, since he kept going on about December and Trek.

Originally posted by Zenwolf


Wait so then what is Quan talking about December for??

I kept thinking that's when the movie was coming out, since he kept going on about December and Trek.


Lol nah he's just temporarily jumping into Star Wars after Trek failed this year.

Huh, I will buy the DVD.

It's quite good.

So I've heard.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol nah he's just temporarily jumping into Star Wars after Trek failed this year.


So then what was December about with him?

Rogue one I'd assume

Originally posted by Rebel95
Rogue one I'd assume





Originally posted by Beniboybling
Huh, I will buy the DVD.


Yeah Buy, don't rent. The franchise needs your help to survive.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Rogue one I'd assume

Yeah but I also recall something about a Trek vs Star Wars thing when something in December happened. <.<

But maybe I'm just confusing things around.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yeah but I also recall something about a Trek vs Star Wars thing when something in December happened. <.<

But maybe I'm just confusing things around.



Oh yeah you're right. He challenged someone to a Trek vs Wars battlezone in December.

Knowing him though he's probably backed out of it.