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Who wins?

Plagueis and Revan.

Nihilus.

Team 1.

Plagueis solos everyone here.

Plagueis carries his team.

Neither Plagueis, nor Revan, has any worthwhile resistance against drain: Nihilus wins it for his team.

Originally posted by Azronger
Plagueis solos everyone here.

Revan beats Nihilus (*Awaits the imminent hatred*)
Plagueis beats Vader
OR
Plagueis beats Nihilus
Vader beats Revan
Then Plagueis beats Vader.

So Team 1 wins.

Originally posted by nfactor1995
Vader beats Revan

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nihilus.

Do you think any Jedi/Sith can best Nihilus one-on-one?
lal.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova



But it's Darth Revan, not prime Revan.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Neither Plagueis, nor Revan, has any worthwhile resistance against drain: Nihilus wins it for his team.
keks

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
keks

Showing against drain, pls.

"There is no one left with the power to control the Forge, though many have tried. I have watched them be devoured, their life drained from them as they attempt to tap into its power." --Bastila Shan

Revan and Malak need to resist the Star Forge's drain effects to control and operate it.

Alright, kewl.

And Plagueis?

Why can't he use midichlorian manipulation to regenerate them as Nihilus drains him?

Plagueis > Nihilus
Revan > Vader

Case closed.

Originally posted by Geistalt
Revan > Vader
Darth Revan > Vader? Why?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why can't he use midichlorian manipulation to regenerate them as Nihilus drains him?

I mean, have Midichlorians ever been suggested to replenish Force reserves, and such?

Genuine question, since a lot of Darth Plagueis is a blur to me.

Originally posted by nfactor1995
Revan beats Nihilus (*Awaits the imminent hatred*)
Plagueis beats Vader
OR
Plagueis beats Nihilus
Vader beats Revan
Then Plagueis beats Vader.

So Team 1 wins. This is accurate.

Aside from Revan beating Nihilus, it is.

Originally posted by darthbane77
This is accurate.
Vader beating Revan is accurate?

Me beating your meat is.

Plagueis muses that there is not a single Force technique he cannot attain by a simple effort of will. If you buy into this, it means Plagueis could simply resist Nihilus by willing himself to do it, even if he doesn't know the technique.

Even if you don't buy into it, you'd still have to prove that Nihilus can drain someone as powerful as Plagueis before the latter slices him up with his lightsaber. Or in other words: instantaneously.

Sorry, I don't buy into Plagueis having a literal plot convenience ability that allows him to defend against any attack simply by willing it...

Like he did against Palpatine's Force lighting?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Like he didn't against Palpatine's Force lighting?

Yep.

Glad we are agreed on that then.

Do you also concede that Nihilus literally having a power against which nothing can defend against is every bit the plot convenience ability that we have no reason to buy into?

Good.

Moving on, if Sever Force powers do indeed involve causing the mass die off of midichlorians as Plagueis believed, it stands to reason he could will them into action to defend against it. Other than that, there is no reason to believe Nihilus drain will be effective against someone more powerful than him besides Traya's unsubstantiated musings.

Reread that Beni.

Except he doesn't. Force drains scales proportionally to the gap in power between two individuals as shown with Krayt, Abeloth and Luke.

What's good ( my nigga )?

How would midichlorians defend against their own death? And tbh I don't really think Plagueis is more powerful then him honestly.

Plagueis is canonically more powerful, lmao.

*Shrug* Depends on if you consider Nihilus a Sith. I don't see any reason to other then Traya dubbing him one.

And objective Sources saying that he is.

Depends.

If Plagueis fights Nihilus and Vader fights Darth Revan, I could see Plagueis struggling with Nihilius long enough for Vader to kill Revan and they could take out Plagueis together.

If Plagueis fights Vader and Nihilus fights Revan, Plagueis would kill Vader and Nihilus would kill Revan, and then Plagueis would kill Nihilus most likely.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And objective Sources saying that he is.

If he were to be considered a Sith, yeah.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Depends.

If Plagueis fights Nihilus and Vader fights Darth Revan, I could see Plagueis struggling with Nihilius long enough for Vader to kill Revan and they could take out Plagueis together.

If Plagueis fights Vader and Nihilus fights Revan, Plagueis would kill Vader and Nihilus would kill Revan, and then Plagueis would kill Nihilus most likely.

Yeah I agree tbh.

Credit to Ant.

See? He's a Sith.

I'm aware. I'm saying if those quotes are based off of Traya saying Nihilus was a Sith I wouldn't take them as valid.

Just because someone is "the most powerful", doesn't mean they're unbeatable. We saw this with Sidious when he fought Mace, it's circumstantial.

Syn said, that he could see Nihlius being more powerful. Also, Sidious faked the fight.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm aware. I'm saying if those quotes are based off of Traya saying Nihilus was a Sith I wouldn't take them as valid.
It doesn't gives evidence that they are.
Also, that would only verify Traya's claim.

Oh well, no he's not more powerful, but I could see him possibly beating Plagueis due to drain. And yeah maybe but is there any evidence that he faked the fight?

Originally posted by Rebel95
Oh well, no he's not more powerful, but I could see him possibly beating Plagueis due to drain. And yeah maybe but is there any evidence that he faked the fight?
I don't see how.

Yeah, there is. Did you read Silver's' blog?

No can you post a link

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened-r/77247/

Thanks, it's gonna take me some time to read through it all lol

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Syn said, that he could see Nihlius being more powerful. Also, Sidious faked the fight.

It doesn't gives evidence that they are.
Also, that would only verify Traya's claim.

Given that's the only reason to assume he is one I'd say it's pretty likely they are.

Traya's claim isn't substantiated in universe. And the character itself expresses no interest in any particular alignment.

That's completely irrelevant tbh given that Plagueis is regarded as the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived from an out of universe source. Though even so the historical record remembers Darth Nihilus as just that, a legendary Sith Lord.

Plagueis doesn't carry his team, though. They destroy the other team together.

To everyone who addressed my post by questioning how Vader beats Revan, this is DARTH Revan in this fight, not SoR Revan.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's completely irrelevant tbh given that Plagueis is regarded as the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived from an out of universe source. Though even so the historical record remembers Darth Nihilus as just that, a legendary Sith Lord.

I guess that's fair. Regardless of what he considered himself to be, he was historically remembered as one. Yeah I can agree with that.

Seems no one has yet proven Plagueis can resist drain.

Nihilus kills him then.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Seems no one has yet proven Plagueis can resist drain.

Nihilus kills him then.

Originally posted by Azronger
Plagueis muses that there is not a single Force technique he cannot attain by a simple effort of will. If you buy into this, it means Plagueis could simply resist Nihilus by willing himself to do it, even if he doesn't know the technique.

Even if you don't buy into it, you'd still have to prove that Nihilus can drain someone as powerful as Plagueis before the latter slices him up with his lightsaber. Or in other words: instantaneously.

I don't care what Plagueis personally thinks, lal. That isn't sufficient proof to prove anything.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Seems no one has yet proven Plagueis can resist drain.

Nihilus kills him then.

Nihilus/Sion couldn't even kill Traya with Drain, lmfao.

It'll work, but it's not an instant-kill.

After Nihilus drains a sufficient amount of Force reserves from Plagueis, he'll then kill him with capital ship raising telekinesis.

Nah, Plagueis will destroy him in CQC first.

Or counters it with midichlorian manipulation.

Doubt it.

Nihilus' drain works at the speed of thought and really, given speed and such is more often than not, a matter of power, I see no reason why Nihilus would be vastly slower than Plagueis anyway. Besides that: a vastly weakened Nihilus had no trouble taking on and keeping up with Meetra and her strike team.

Ninja'd by Beni. Dunno how Midichlorian manipulation can counter drain, lal.

I'd say Plagueis, you know, unbalancing the Force as a whole just by, essentially, thinking about it, is sufficient proof that he can attain specific Force techniques just by willing it. And then there's the fact that Plagueis muses he has absolutely no talent for Sith Sorcery, yet he pulls off illusions regardless.

You still haven't proven that Nihilus can drain Plagueis before the latter will slice him in two. I seriously doubt that, since Nihilus, as Nova mentioned, apparently failed to drain Traya, someone who Plagueis could erase out of existense by blinking. It's also a canonical fact that Force powers can be resisted by sheer willpower, which Plagueis has more than any other character, bar Sidious and possibly Luke and Yoda.

https://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/17/73/92/12/force_11.png

This should apply to drain, and also telekinesis.

Great post

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Ninja'd by Beni. Dunno how Midichlorian manipulation can counter drain, lal. Because Force drain targets the victim's connection to the Force i.e. their midichlorians.

Originally posted by Azronger
I'd say Plagueis, you know, unbalancing the Force as a whole just by, essentially, thinking about it, is sufficient proof that he can attain specific Force techniques just by willing it. And then there's the fact that Plagueis muses he has absolutely no talent for Sith Sorcery, yet he pulls off illusions regardless.

You still haven't proven that Nihilus can drain Plagueis before the latter will slice him in two. I seriously doubt that, since Nihilus, as Nova mentioned, apparently failed to drain Traya, someone who Plagueis could erase out of existense by blinking. It's also a canonical fact that Force powers can be resisted by sheer willpower, which Plagueis has more than any other character, bar Sidious and possibly Luke and Yoda.

https://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/17/73/92/12/force_11.png

This should apply to drain, and also telekinesis.

Seems likely that it was through force of will that Revan and Malak resisted the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because Force drain targets the victim's connection to the Force i.e. their midichlorians.

Quite possibly, however, when has Plagueis manipulated Midichlorians in actual combat situation, specifically, sufficient enough to prevent drainer that drain entire planets with a thought, and devastate them with the Force all the same?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Quite possibly, however, when has Plagueis manipulated Midichlorians in actual combat situation, specifically, sufficient enough to prevent drainer that drain entire planets with a thought, and devastate them with the Force all the same? He healed himself against Sidious' Force lightning, albeit not fast enough to circumvent it. He was also caught totally off-guard in his sleep, and drunk, and Sidious noted it was arrogant to think he could heal through his lightning in that situation instead of fighting back.

Suggests to me that Plagueis could have put up a much greater fight if he wasn't caught unaware and drunk; the fact he can see any returns on healing while being directly fried with Sidious' lightning - lightning being a power that directly drains life energy, Sidious being the most powerful Sith ever - is staggering, especially in those circumstances.

More than that, Plagueis is described as making no effort to defend himself, and Sidious as drawing more deeply on the dark side than he ever had. And yet it's only through suffocation that Plagueis is said to die, nothing actually indicates the Force lightning did Plagueis lasting bodily harm.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
More than that, Plagueis is described as making no other effort to defend himself, and Sidious as drawing more deeply on the dark side than he ever had. And yet it's only through suffocation that Plagueis is said to die, nothing actually indicates the Force lightning did Plagueis lasting bodily harm. In other words, Nihilus is a fly trying to crack a bank vault.

Originally posted by Azronger
I'd say Plagueis, you know, unbalancing the Force as a whole just by, essentially, thinking about it, is sufficient proof that he can attain specific Force techniques just by willing it.

Plagueis, along with Sidious, exerted their will on the Force via manipulation of midichlorian a niche in the Force that Plagueis has mastered like no other before, or after him. So, no, Plagueis didin't just think about it and imbalanced the Force ---- he did so via manipulating the midichrlorians, a power he mastered to the fullest, and will power.


Umm, since when does illusion universally fall under the sorcery umbrella?



I already gave my thoughts on the matter of speed blitz. If you think my reasoning wasn't sufficient enough, agree to disagree.

We all adhere to that type of logic at the end of the day, otherwise, you'd be claiming Maul could blitz Ragnos because the latter lacks any speed feast of note.




Nahilus failed to kill Traya, with drain, yes. But he factually severed her connection for the Force utterly, thus succeeded in draining her.




Except, in practice, that has never been the case. Mace Windu, and Yoda --- have both either failed to resist drain, or was stated to be unable to resist it, despite them both having top-tier willpower.

The Dark Reaper, a device that is far and away inferior to Nihilus' drain, rendered Yoda useless to deactivate it, with only Anakin stop it a secret secret technique taught to him by Ulic, no willpower mentioned or involved. Then, we have Mace getting drained utterly by a random space vampire. Again, you'd think his will power would be enough to reist getting his power siphoned by a random, but it wasn't the case.

So, yeah - I'm gonna go by what has been shown in actual works rather than go by a power only mentioned in the Star Wars RPG game.

But as always my dear: feel free to disagree.

Oh, and while I'm not convinced Plagueis can stop Nihilus monstrous drain completely, thanks to 'Swords , I am convinced he can do it enough to best Nihilus in either CQC, or various other ways.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo

Yeah, willpower is very strongly implied in the KotOR games to be something that can help you resist Drain.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Plagueis, along with Sidious, exerted their will on the Force via manipulation of midichlorian a niche in the Force that Plagueis has mastered like no other before, or after him. So, no, Plagueis didin't just think about it and imbalanced the Force ---- he did so via manipulating the midichrlorians, a power he mastered to the fullest, and will power.

No, they meditated when they unbalanced the Force. They didn't manipulate midi-chlorians, IIRC. It wouldn't make sense anyway: how would manipulating the midi-chlorians of a few individuals unbalance the Force on a galactic scale?



Haven't dark side illusions always been described as Sith Sorcery?



I didn't mean Plagueis'd blitz Nihilus. I just can't see how Plagueis isn't stomping someone who lost to a team of Exile, Visas and Canderous, in CQC.

And if they start at a distance, I doubt Nihilus would be able to do significant damage before Plagueis closes the distance, which, given the latter's speed, would be something akin to instantaneous movement.



Not blitzing, but I'd say he beats him pretty easily in sabers.



Traya was literally an insect compared to Nihilus. That doesn't prove he can drain someone with thousands of times the Force strength of Traya - Force strength which eclipses Nihilus' own.



I'd say the Dark Reaper is quite comparable to Nihilus. Draining an entire moon dry and thousands of Jedi at once isn't far off from draining a planet with the aid of orbital bombardment whilst being empowered by a dark side nexus. In fact, it might be superior, given that we have no drain feats from Nihilus outside the Ravager, which is a nexus.

Other than that, fair enough.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, willpower is very strongly implied in the KotOR games to be something that can help you resist Drain.

Where?

@Az - You might be a bit hyperbolic with "thousands of times" the Force strength of, etc.

As for where willpower is suggested to counter Drain, I'm probably going to put that in my Drain blog when I finish it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
@Az - You might be a bit hyperbolic with "thousands of times" the Force strength of, etc.

I often tend to be, yeah.



And when will that be? But could you at least post a truncated version?