Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Vader goes to face Luke in the carbonite room of Cloud city, when instead he meets the Count of Serrano! Who wins?

Force
Sabers
All out

Vader, solidly.

Dooku takes this.

Dooku dismembers him pretty quickly.

I'm open to a formal debate on this.

Barlow also says Maul would beat Dooku 8/10 coz of willpower...

Don't buy that statement. Same comic has Maul supporting Talzin to the point her force power becomes strong enough to stalemate Palpatine and Dooku.

If we go by author statements, Lucas said Vader is on Dooku and Mauls level.

You'll have to do better than author statements. It's just different interpretations at the end of the day.

Vader. Pretty solidly.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Vader. Pretty solidly. Based on?

Dooku, mediocre fight.

Originally posted by Kurk
Dooku dismembers him pretty quickly.

I'm open to a formal debate on this.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku, mediocre fight.
Originally posted by The Merchant
Dooku takes this.
Any of you care to elaborate? I'm actually curious because it's always seemed the consensus was that Vader>Dooku

It's just the Vader lowballing spree going on recently.

Count Dooku barely.

Vader. Between his Physical Strength, and Beastly TK, He would be a nightmare for Dooku who has struggled with Savages TK and Strength in the past.


Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Barlow also says Maul would beat Dooku 8/10 coz of willpower...


Nowt wrong with that logic.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Vader. Between his Physical Strength, and Beastly TK, He would be a nightmare for Dooku who has struggled with Savages TK and Strength in the past.
No. S3 Savage shouldn't be even use as an example of anything. Dooku, Asajj and even Anakin and Obi-Wan are victims of that overpowered version of Savage. In S3 either Ventress or Dooku are unable to block Savage's blows. His blows combined with his TK is enough to throw away Ventress, Dooku and Anakin and Obi-Wan combined. Then, in S4 Ventress is able to block his blows as is Kenobi. Savage stomps Kenobi in their fight though, with just a Maul's mere presence. His blows are still overpowered somehow. And then, we have S5 Savage. Canon statements tell us, that it's his prime version, yet he's stomped by Maul, Adi Gallia is able to block his blows quite well, she only lost due to his physcical enormous advantage. Later on, he fought Kenobi along with Maul, and got beaten pretty badly before Maul overhelmed Kenobi with TK. Then, with all of his strneght and Maul's support, he was unable to overhelm Kenobi in a saberlock, made a mistake and finally lost his arm.

S5 Savage, prime Savage's version, would never overhelm Dooku.

And when people says, that Vader was the strongest one of those 3, and Maul was stronger then Dooku due to his willpower... well, it's a true, from certain point of viev. Dooku has never seemed to be strong enough, to survive being nearly burnt to the death or cut in half.
But overall, being less powerful in a dark side doesn't mean, being inferior fighter or being less powerfull in the Force overall.

S3 Savage never disarmed Anakin and Obi-Wan. Just threw them back in a rage. And they were still cutting him up.

Savage wasnt even in a rage when he disarmed and floored Dooku.

Now imagine Vader who has far greater physical strength than Savage, far far greater TK, and the skill of Anakin Skywalker.

I just feel Vader will have Dookus Number, just like Dooku always had Obi-Wans Number.

Dooku: I am your father
Vader: No! Oh, wait, I have a deja-vu.

Palpatine: Geez, here we go again.

Vader has the edge in Force but Dooku is the far greater combatant so it'd be a good fight but nothing suggests that Vader could overcome Dookus battle prowess

I have ESB Vader and Dooku relatively even, tbh.

Dooku wins sabers, Vader ragdolls in the Force and all-out

Originally posted by relentless1
but nothing suggests that Vader could overcome Dookus battle prowess


Well Anakin could. Even during TCW he seemed to have a slight edge. And I doubt TCW Anakin > Vader.


And Honestly I think Vaders Saber duelling prowess is really under rated. He was solidly overpowering Ahsoka who seemed approx on par with Maul. How much better than that do y all believe Dooku to be.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well Anakin could. Even during TCW he seemed to have a slight edge. And I doubt TCW Anakin > Vader.


And Honestly I think Vaders Saber duelling prowess is really under rated. He was solidly overpowering Ahsoka who seemed approx on par with Maul. How much better than that do y all believe Dooku to be. Vader has lost more mobility than Anakin already suffered from (which Dooku has exploited). Vader may have been made stronger, but he's far less mobile. He can't even lift his arms above his shoulders without great difficulty lol

Didnt see that in the Ahsoka fight.

Cuz it's canon, duh. Technicalities don't exist in Canon. Whatever Filoni wants to happen happens no explanation needed.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And Honestly I think Vaders Saber duelling prowess is really under rated. He was solidly overpowering Ahsoka who seemed approx on par with Maul.

Post TCW/SoD Maul is a joke. He was stomped by blind Kanan, old Ben and was on par with Ahsoka on DS nexus. And needed a help, against three inquisitors. Nice..

Savage's strenght in S3 was retconed and is far from being comperable to Vader's. Dooku, while supporting himself with tge Force was able to hold on against Yoda in saber lock, against Obi-Wan and Anakin in saberlock at once, and much inferior combatants could hold their own against Opress in S4/S5. Dooku is just a victim of pre-retconed Opress. That shouldn't be a factor here.

Originally posted by McP
Post TCW/SoD Maul is a joke. He was stomped by blind Kanan, old Ben and was on par with Ahsoka on DS nexus. And needed a help, against three inquisitors. Nice..



Thats some nice lowballing.

Kanan manages to push Maul off a cliff, then drops himself indicating he could not have fought Maul much longer. I wouldnt Call that a stomp.

Perhaps Old Ben is just that good. In any case he suckered him in with Qui-Gons stance. Not a move Ahsoka or Vader would be likely to replicate.

Prove this DS Nexus had any effect on combat abilities. FYI Malachor Maul likely hadnt fought anyone in a few years.

Maul was stomping Inquisitors. Something beyond Kanans level. FYI the Inquisitors are all former Jedi.


Sure Rebels Maul was more frustrated and hence could be more clumsy than TPM/TCW Maul, but there is little to suggest his peak combat abilities had massively declined.

Originally posted by McP
Post TCW/SoD Maul is a joke. He was stomped by blind Kanan, old Ben and was on par with Ahsoka on DS nexus. And needed a help, against three inquisitors. Nice.

I do hope you apply this logic consistently:

->TCW Maul missed multiple clean shots on a fallen force sensitive

->Anakin got stalemated by Hondo.

->Dooku couldn't beat 20 pirates.

->Grievous got beat by 20 gungans.

->Yoda was bailed out against 20 droidekas.

I assume they are all jokes?

If you disagree then there's only two pertinent pieces of evidence:


->The fight with Kenobi

Addressed here:


TLDR: The fight doesn't indicate the size of the gap though we know there is a gap due to repeated authoral clarification.

Also, there's no indication "old ben" is post prime in canon as he's stated to have grown as both a swordsmen and a force user. Maul is inferior to an ROTS Kenobi+ fighter, no shame there.



This leaves us with one piece of evidence:


-> The fight vs Ahsoka

Being inferior to Ahsoka, someone who's held off force attacks from Sidious, and contends with Vader for more than 2 minutes on the same nexus she edged Maul on isn't something to be ashamed of.

Rebels Maul is pretty clearly in the range of Vader who ten years prior was disintegrating light saber resistant creatures, and pulling down freighters much larger than the one tcw maul dragged of a cliff. As far as canon goes, there's only a handful of showings I can think of which are more impressive.'

Now for the Asgardian:




Allow me to explain my choice of emoji.

I find this funny as jman's argument is the exact same argument you've been using for more than a year now as proof Maul was post prime as of rebels. Lowballing is fair game when you can use it to get your hearthrob out of the limitations he may showcase, but it isn't when assessing Maul's abilities?


Be consistent.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I do hope you apply this logic consistently:

->TCW Maul missed multiple clean shots on a fallen force sensitive

->Anakin got stalemated by Hondo.

->Dooku couldn't beat 20 pirates.

->Grievous got beat by 20 gungans.

->Yoda was bailed out against 20 droidekas.

I assume they are all jokes?

If you disagree then there's only two pertinent pieces of evidence:





Dont forget both TCW Kenobi and TCW Vos getting repeatedly battered and embarrassed by Cad Bane.

Id take getting pushed off a cliff by an actual Jedi over that any day.

Bump

Vader in a good fight

Dooku tbh

Probably Dooku.

Its probably close tbh.

Dooku was approx on par with mid-late TCW Anakin, which is roughly where id place OT Vader.

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
Bump

Vader in a good fight
Post your argument estahuh

Vader wins

Originally posted by CactusJoe
Post your argument estahuh


Easy - Vader will remember Dookus combat moves

Dooku > ROTS Kenobi >/= Old Ben >>> Vader (as per Lucas' notes)

Old Ben > Vader? since when...?

Dooku wins.

Originally posted by McP
Old Ben > Vader? since when...?


IIRC Theres some old old quote, like pre-ROTJ where Lucas says something about Bens Force powers being greater than Vaders, which is why Vader could not use his force powers on Ben the way he does on Luke in ESB.

Credit to Darthjaggarant66

Poor Vader.

Basically in ragdoll territory for an old Kenobi, sad. It's certainly clear that Maul and Dooku smoke Vader now

Asajj could probably take him as well.

^
You have to bo kidding ^.-

If he's two tiers below Ben Kenobi, how is it so hard to believe? Vader's trash now, and it's a wonderful thing.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=16711087#post16711087

It is great Lucas does not own Star Wars anymore. The hack was all all over the map.

This ain't it chief.

Source: Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays

Isn't it a bit out-dated? Well, I still consider Vader a a bit overated here, but, tbh, it doesn't seem right, to place him two leagues below Kenobi in terms of Force powers.

And Asajj, despite how strong she was, would never be able to beat either Maul, Dooku or Vader in a fair fight. They are all clearly above her, possibly more then just one league.

Except, Vader is obviously not on their level anymore. G-Canon text is out-dated? I guess we just have to accept Malak's rise and Vader's fall.

Yeah I mean what a loose canon figuring out the saga as he was making it.

Excuses. Lucas had it all planned out already, he knew Vader was sub-Ventress before her character was even a real thing.

Originally posted by McP
Source: Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays

Isn't it a bit out-dated? Well, I still consider Vader a a bit overated here, but, tbh, it doesn't seem right, to place him two leagues below Kenobi in terms of Force powers.

And Asajj, despite how strong she was, would never be able to beat either Maul, Dooku or Vader in a fair fight. They are all clearly above her, possibly more then just one league.



He knows that lol

Hes clearly trolling.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I do hope you apply this logic consistently:

->TCW Maul missed multiple clean shots on a fallen force sensitive

->Anakin got stalemated by Hondo.

->Dooku couldn't beat 20 pirates.

->Grievous got beat by 20 gungans.

->Yoda was bailed out against 20 droidekas.



Which one?

Anakin was fighting Hondo on aboard a tank that was constantly moving a fracking with his footwork.

Dooku didn't have his lightsaber.

Yeah Grievous in TCW was just retarded overall until the later unfinished seasons.

Two Droidekas drove back Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS so an entire army of them could challenge Yoda who in TCW has his Force abilities vastly underplayed.



Overall the context of Maul's worst showings in Rebels isn't as obvious. This is also the same show where Kanan and Ezra Force pushed Vader. Even if he's distracted that still shouldn't have happened.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird

Overall the context of Maul's worst showings in Rebels isn't as obvious. This is also the same show where Kanan and Ezra Force pushed Vader. Even if he's distracted that still shouldn't have happened.


Just realised the other day that Anakin was also thrown off an edge by a Padawan. In the Anakin vs Barriss fight.

Lets not forget Obi-Wan and Vos getting tooled one by one by Cad Bane.

Its just typical Filoni stuff, and not indicative of true power levels.

However in Mauls case, given his character arc, it may have been more justifiable (Not fought in years, and more frustrated than ever).

Do you have a list of poor excuses ready for anytime Maul's shortcomings are brought to light?

Maybe, I mean you seem to have some pretty good ones for why Dooku could never beat Anakin post AOTC.

There's a difference between 'can't' and 'not allowed,' which is logical, but okay.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Just realised the other day that Anakin was also thrown off an edge by a Padawan. In the Anakin vs Barriss fight.

Lets not forget Obi-Wan and Vos getting tooled one by one by Cad Bane.

Its just typical Filoni stuff, and not indicative of true power levels.

However in Mauls case, given his character arc, it may have been more justifiable (Not fought in years, and more frustrated than ever).

Wasn't Barriss a Knight by then? Plus Anakin was holding back. Walking into the courtroom with a dead body wouldn't have sufficed. He needed Barriss alive. But yeah, he Force pushing him was odd although he had just executed an acrobatic.

Ok yeah Obi-Wan and Vos struggling to catch Bane was ridiculous. To be fair they did have Bane use his thrusters and he didn't do so well against Kenobi blade to balde.

Overall that scene was an embarrassment. Quinlan Vos in general in TCW was.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Yoda who in TCW has his Force abilities vastly underplayed.

Not at all. In fact, in some ways, TCW shows things right, like in the movies. There are no hyperbolics, like Bane dodging a rain, or jedi/sith moving to fast for eye to follow or Grievous with his more, then 20 strikes per second... or Mace on dantooine, Mace and Yoda on Courscant, flying Count Dooku etc.

And despite all of the scales of showings, despite how good Revan was, for example in KotoR he couldn't stomp Mandalore by speed, Obi-Wan coulnd't stomp Jango or Cad, Mace couldn't as well, if not Jango's backpack, nor Maul could stomp Vizsla (all in terms of speed I eman).
Removing all that nonsenses from canon is one, of just very few things, that Disney did well.

Originally posted by McP
Not at all. In fact, in some ways, TCW shows things right, like in the movies. There are no hyperbolics, like Bane dodging a rain, or jedi/sith moving to fast for eye to follow or Grievous with his more, then 20 strikes per second... or Mace on dantooine, Mace and Yoda on Courscant, flying Count Dooku etc.

And despite all of the scales of showings, despite how good Revan was, for example in KotoR he couldn't stomp Mandalore by speed, Obi-Wan coulnd't stomp Jango or Cad, Mace couldn't as well, if not Jango's backpack, nor Maul could stomp Vizsla (all in terms of speed I eman).
Removing all that nonsenses from canon is one, of just very few things, that Disney did well.

Force users in general aren't portrayed that well on screen. I'm not saying that they have to be god like I'd just prefer if there were more showings of power through telekinesis rather than lightsaber fights.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
There's a difference between 'can't' and 'not allowed,' which is logical, but okay.


Lol speaking of excuses

Yeah, they could have a better TK feats or Force feats overall. But those exaggerated speed or strenght feats are ... not so fine, after all.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Wasn't Barriss a Knight by then? Plus Anakin was holding back. Walking into the courtroom with a dead body wouldn't have sufficed. He needed Barriss alive. But yeah, he Force pushing him was odd although he had just executed an acrobatic.

Ok yeah Obi-Wan and Vos struggling to catch Bane was ridiculous. To be fair they did have Bane use his thrusters and he didn't do so well against Kenobi blade to balde.

Overall that scene was an embarrassment. Quinlan Vos in general in TCW was.


Yeah we presume Anakin was not going for the kill, but then Kanan was having some Force moment so easy for Maul to underestimate.

There was no indication Barriss was Knighted in TCW, even though she was in the OCW. So going by Legends she would have been a Knight, but no indication of that in Canon iirc. In any case Kanan was a Knight when he confronted Maul anyway.

Well Kenobi better beat Bane blade to blade lol. Im thinking of the point where he electrocuted Kenobi, floored and disarmed him, then carried on running but got confronted by Vos again.

That was defo an embarrassment for both of them. But yeah more so Vos.

https://www.starwars.com/databank/barriss-offee

^ Official site states Barriss was a Padawan.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah we presume Anakin was not going for the kill, but then Kanan was having some Force moment so easy for Maul to underestimate.

There was no indication Barriss was Knighted in TCW, even though she was in the OCW. So going by Legends she would have been a Knight, but no indication of that in Canon iirc. In any case Kanan was a Knight when he confronted Maul anyway.

Well Kenobi better beat Bane blade to blade lol. Im thinking of the point where he electrocuted Kenobi, floored and disarmed him, then carried on running but got confronted by Vos again.

That was defo an embarrassment for both of them. But yeah more so Vos.

Kanan was amplified during that moment that he wouldn't be maintaining consistently.

Oh yeah Bane rushing Kenobi was lunacy. If Kenobi was having a hard time dealing with the pain then ok fine. But Bane rushing Kenobi and getting ahold of him was retarded.

Not sure how he would realistically disarm Kenobi of Vos' lightsaber in the first place.

The reason why Vader couldn't use the force on Kenobi......
Filmed in 1977!!!!

Originally posted by RealistRacism
If he's two tiers below Ben Kenobi, how is it so hard to believe? Vader's trash now, and it's a wonderful thing.

Yeh no one takes you seriously. 0/10 trolling.

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
The reason why Vader couldn't use the force on Kenobi......
Filmed in 1977!!!!

There wasn't really much to hurl at him in the Death Star hallways and I don't think direct Force pushes would've worked anyways. At least that's the in-universe explanation.

^
Well, I doubt that even Force choke would work. Everytime Kenobi was choked, he was - for different reasons - off guard. I doubt that Vader just could break his defense with the Force.

^ In canon almost all combatants are caught off guard when choked.

That said if one is going to gain the advantage via TK, it would be Vader.

I wouldn't bo so sure. In an open area, when they could throw an objects at themselves, when the raw power matters, indeed advantage would go probably to Vader. But on the Death Star, when they would be forced to gain an advantage by strict Force attack, like choke, it might be impossible to tell. A better fencer, who would be able to throw his opponent off-balance (like Dooku did to Obi-Wan in ROTS) migh be victorious. Being more powerful in the Force migh not be a deciding factor if the difference isn't to great (like it was in Sidious-Maul/Savage or Yoda - Ventress case). An example might be Savage choking Dooku or Asajj choking Anakin and Obi-Wan at once.

Not to mention Vader constantly holds back against anyone who he has had an emotional connection with in the past

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
Not to mention Vader constantly holds back against anyone who he has had an emotional connection with in the past
Vader was trying to kill Obi-Wan in ANH and Luke in RotJ lol.

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
Not to mention Vader constantly holds back against anyone who he has had an emotional connection with in the past No. He tried to kill Kenobi, twice. Even attacked Palme. Guy is a loon.

Vader takes every category with varying degrees of difficulty.

Originally posted by McP
I wouldn't bo so sure. In an open area, when they could throw an objects at themselves, when the raw power matters, indeed advantage would go probably to Vader. But on the Death Star, when they would be forced to gain an advantage by strict Force attack, like choke, it might be impossible to tell. A better fencer, who would be able to throw his opponent off-balance (like Dooku did to Obi-Wan in ROTS) migh be victorious. Being more powerful in the Force migh not be a deciding factor if the difference isn't to great (like it was in Sidious-Maul/Savage or Yoda - Ventress case). An example might be Savage choking Dooku or Asajj choking Anakin and Obi-Wan at once.


Yes youre right that (in canon at least), getting in a force attack is down to superior combat skills in the moment.

However if we look at say Vader vs Ashoka, or Anakin vs Dooku in TCW Movie, when the weaker TK Combatant lands the TK hit it doesnt have the same impact as when the stronger TK Combatant lands one.

Kenobi ragdolls

Originally posted by deathslash
Vader takes every category with varying degrees of difficulty. Based on?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on? I know that the vast majority of what you say is pure trolling, but for anyone that's actually wondering, I'll say this:

1. RotS Anakin beat the brakes off of Dooku when he began raging out.

2. Vader has no problem with letting his rage fuel him and has way more experience.

3. Dooku isn't taking a force fight. He just isn't. Dooku got choked out by Sheev while Vader managed to actually ragdoll the old man. That's just one of many superior force feats/comparisons. Once we get into statements of power, it becomes clear that Vader is superior.

4. In an all out fight, Vader has superior force power, actual armor, and comparable skill back up by superior force augmentations.

Originally posted by deathslash
I know that the vast majority of what you say is pure trolling, but for anyone that's actually wondering, I'll say this:

1. RotS Anakin beat the brakes off of Dooku when he began raging out.

2. Vader has no problem with letting his rage fuel him and has way more experience.

3. Dooku isn't taking a force fight. He just isn't. Dooku got choked out by Sheev while Vader managed to actually ragdoll the old man. That's just one of many superior force feats/comparisons. Once we get into statements of power, it becomes clear that Vader is superior.

4. In an all out fight, Vader has superior force power, actual armor, and comparable skill back up by superior force augmentations. I am on my way out the door for a run. Oh I cannot wait to eviscerate these points later. Stay tuned.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am on my way out the door for a run. Oh I cannot wait to eviscerate these points later. Stay tuned. You seen his post and you decided to literally run away in real life?

No one can handle the deathslash. He's only at breaktheskinslash levels too.

@deathslash

Dooku was smart enough, to knew what is coming for resisting. Vader had to learn that. In a quite humiliating way tbh.

Never had never ragdoll Sheev. To be honest, there is a suggestion that even someone far weaker then Sidious could catch him off guard. It was Maul, in a deleted scene from their fight. And since I heard years ago, that this scene cannot be treat a canon one, it simply shows a TCW's and canon's mechanics: when Sidious focused himself on attaking Maul and Savage with FL, he lowered his guard a little bit. Just like Anakin and Obi-Wan lowered their guards in Ventress' presence, just like Dooku and Ventress lowered their guards against Savage, when they focused on each others.
And yet, Maul was supposed to do that at least in battle. Unlike Vader.

Declaring that Vader "ragdolled" Sheev is just being obviously biased to Vader. Its laughtable.

Dooku managed to hold his own against Sidious' equal in terms of TK - Yoda. Do you really believe, that Yoda would miss a chance for perhaps ending the war before it's even started? When Yoda himself stated, that if Dooku escapes, he will turn even more systems against the Republic? Yoda was there to stop Dooku, if he could stop him with the Force, without even hurting him, it would be the best option. But he most likely couldn't.
*That's not a declaration that Dooku is equally powerful to Yoda, that's declaration that he was powerful enough to not being stomped or easily bested.

Anakin had the speed advantage over Dooku. Vader does not. Anakin was less mobile then Dooku, which Dooku tried to use against him. Vader is far less mobile then Anakin, it will be even worse weakness. Anakin had superior raw power in the Force, he had far superior stamina. Dooku could barely holds his assault, which resulted in forcing Dooku to lost his balance, grabing his wrists and cut off his hands.
Vader, unlike Dooku, couldn't even hold Luke's assault, lost all of his stamina before Luke even cut off his hand. Against Anakin's full assault, Vader would be stomped even harder.

Vader is overrated as hell.

Vader stomps.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
However if we look at say Vader vs Ashoka, or Anakin vs Dooku in TCW Movie, when the weaker TK Combatant lands the TK hit it doesnt have the same impact as when the stronger TK Combatant lands one.

I agree and disagree. Depends of which kind of TK attacks it is. In temrs of, lets say Force push, it indeed works that way. Raw power is very iimportant.
But in terms of choke, much more important is techique and concentration in my opinion, since it's very hard to break that kind of attack. You have to be focused all the time, to hold and press it long enough.

Originally posted by McP
@deathslash

Dooku was smart enough, to knew what is coming for resisting. Vader had to learn that. In a quite humiliating way tbh.

Never had never ragdoll Sheev. To be honest, there is a suggestion that even someone far weaker then Sidious could catch him off guard. It was Maul, in a deleted scene from their fight. And since I heard years ago, that this scene cannot be treat a canon one, it simply shows a TCW's and canon's mechanics: when Sidious focused himself on attaking Maul and Savage with FL, he lowered his guard a little bit. Just like Anakin and Obi-Wan lowered their guards in Ventress' presence, just like Dooku and Ventress lowered their guards against Savage, when they focused on each others.
And yet, Maul was supposed to do that at least in battle. Unlike Vader.

Declaring that Vader "ragdolled" Sheev is just being obviously biased to Vader. Its laughtable.

Dooku managed to hold his own against Sidious' equal in terms of TK - Yoda. Do you really believe, that Yoda would miss a chance for perhaps ending the war before it's even started? When Yoda himself stated, that if Dooku escapes, he will turn even more systems against the Republic? Yoda was there to stop Dooku, if he could stop him with the Force, without even hurting him, it would be the best option. But he most likely couldn't.
*That's not a declaration that Dooku is equally powerful to Yoda, that's declaration that he was powerful enough to not being stomped or easily bested.

Anakin had the speed advantage over Dooku. Vader does not. Anakin was less mobile then Dooku, which Dooku tried to use against him. Vader is far less mobile then Anakin, it will be even worse weakness. Anakin had superior raw power in the Force, he had far superior stamina. Dooku could barely holds his assault, which resulted in forcing Dooku to lost his balance, grabing his wrists and cut off his hands.
Vader, unlike Dooku, couldn't even hold Luke's assault, lost all of his stamina before Luke even cut off his hand. Against Anakin's full assault, Vader would be stomped even harder.

Vader is overrated as hell. "Vader never ragdolled Palpatine"

Then what's this about?
https://i2.wp.com/www.criticalhit.net/images/2017/06/Vader-2.jpg?resize=850%2C653
Hell, he held him there for a while.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-03eb81ec74b1cf70d519fc46703eb6d9-c
But yeah, I'm totally being biased. That's what it is.

If by "hold his own" you mean "keep from getting instantly murdered and run away" then yes, he held his own. He also got smacked around by Savage and Ventress and was stated to have been on the losing end against someone that only had raw strength with no skill and someone that had skill with no real knowledge to back it up.

The same Ventress that got hilariously humiliated when she tried to go up against Yoda so yeah. Oh yeah, while we're at it, what happened when to that guy with the horns that was ragdolling Dooku? I seem to recall something about teaming up with his brother before they both got wrecked by a version of Kenobi that's inferior to the one that Vader fought.

Yes, and after being crippled, Vader learned to deal with his newfound shortcomings. He learned how to slowly and methodically take his opponents down with short burst of speed in conjunction with his insane skill. He learned to let them tire themselves out rather than putting it all on the line in a do or die flurry of blows. He doesn't fight like he used to, he fights like it's a war of attrition, and with his superior reserves of force power, it will be the end of Dooku.

Vader still wins.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
You seen his post and you decided to literally run away in real life?

Dooku dominated even Ventress' blood vessels in Dark Rendenzvous lmao

When it comes to Force TK Showings and Feats from the EU, Vader trumps Dooku. Be that Legends or Canon.

I doubt anyone will argue that. Dookus only hope of winning is via the clash of Sabers.

If Vader wins, it won't be because of his TK. For one, TK only tends to play a decisive role when one character is already much more powerful than the other (which isn't the case here). Two, I fail to recall Vader TK'ing any of his opponents to devastating effect, especially not of Dooku's caliber. Third, Dooku's own TK mastery approaches Vader's, so he can return the favor if Vader attacks Dooku with TK.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
When it comes to Force TK Showings and Feats from the EU, Vader trumps Dooku. Be that Legends or Canon.

I doubt anyone will argue that. Dookus only hope of winning is via the clash of Sabers.
This.

Originally posted by McP
@deathslash

Dooku was smart enough, to knew what is coming for resisting. Vader had to learn that. In a quite humiliating way tbh.

Never had never ragdoll Sheev. To be honest, there is a suggestion that even someone far weaker then Sidious could catch him off guard. It was Maul, in a deleted scene from their fight. And since I heard years ago, that this scene cannot be treat a canon one, it simply shows a TCW's and canon's mechanics: when Sidious focused himself on attaking Maul and Savage with FL, he lowered his guard a little bit. Just like Anakin and Obi-Wan lowered their guards in Ventress' presence, just like Dooku and Ventress lowered their guards against Savage, when they focused on each others.
And yet, Maul was supposed to do that at least in battle. Unlike Vader.

Declaring that Vader "ragdolled" Sheev is just being obviously biased to Vader. Its laughtable.

Dooku managed to hold his own against Sidious' equal in terms of TK - Yoda. Do you really believe, that Yoda would miss a chance for perhaps ending the war before it's even started? When Yoda himself stated, that if Dooku escapes, he will turn even more systems against the Republic? Yoda was there to stop Dooku, if he could stop him with the Force, without even hurting him, it would be the best option. But he most likely couldn't.
*That's not a declaration that Dooku is equally powerful to Yoda, that's declaration that he was powerful enough to not being stomped or easily bested.

Anakin had the speed advantage over Dooku. Vader does not. Anakin was less mobile then Dooku, which Dooku tried to use against him. Vader is far less mobile then Anakin, it will be even worse weakness. Anakin had superior raw power in the Force, he had far superior stamina. Dooku could barely holds his assault, which resulted in forcing Dooku to lost his balance, grabing his wrists and cut off his hands.
Vader, unlike Dooku, couldn't even hold Luke's assault, lost all of his stamina before Luke even cut off his hand. Against Anakin's full assault, Vader would be stomped even harder.

Vader is overrated as hell.

If anything Dooku is more overrated in the forums. There are people who think he can legit stomp Darth Maul and beat Mace Windu for whatever reason.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
When it comes to Force TK Showings and Feats from the EU, Vader trumps Dooku. Be that Legends or Canon.

I doubt anyone will argue that. Dookus only hope of winning is via the clash of Sabers.

In EU/Legends Vader's, I'll call it a "neutral TK showings" are superior to Dooku's, indeed. But Dooku's TK showings vs other Force users are also far superior to Vader's, who, in fact, was never able to overhelm at least a decent enemy with his Force TK as I remember. + some statements that was just a shadow of his former self blablabla
Legends Dooku, Mace, Maul, Kenobi before ANH > Vader tbh.

Originally posted by deathslash
"Vader never ragdolled Palpatine"

Then what's this about?
https://i2.wp.com/www.criticalhit.net/images/2017/06/Vader-2.jpg?resize=850%2C653
Hell, he held him there for a while.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-03eb81ec74b1cf70d519fc46703eb6d9-c
But yeah, I'm totally being biased. That's what it is.

Yes, yes, he ragdolled a person, who even didn't try to defend himself. Vader is a boss indeed.

Originally posted by deathslash
If by "hold his own" you mean "keep from getting instantly murdered and run away" then yes, he held his own. He also got smacked around by Savage and Ventress and was stated to have been on the losing end against someone that only had raw strength with no skill and someone that had skill with no real knowledge to back it up.

Yeah, that was what I meant. Vader is a lucky guy, that he never had to fight possibly the finest, fastest and most agile duelist in the whole Saga, and perhaps in the whole canon. And Sidious' equal in the Force at the same time.

Indeed, Dooku and even Ventress, Obi-Wan, Anakin are a victims of pre-retconed Savage. A beast, that could overhelm Dooku/Asajj and Anakin/Obi-Wan at some point in season 3. A beast, that with just a Maul's mere presence defeated Kenobi a few moments later, along with Maul forced Kenobi and Asajj to retreat in season 4. A beast got stomped by Maul, then had to work on defeating Adi, then got stomped by Kenobi despite being aided by Maul, then being stomped and killed by Sidious who was toying with him. All of that, with a statements, that he's stronger and stronger with each season of TCW passes.

In short: if you haven't noted, Savage was stronger in canon, but weaked on screen with each season. Anyway, in a fair solo fight, Dooku stomped either Ventress or Savage in S3.

Originally posted by deathslash
Yes, and after being crippled, Vader learned to deal with his newfound shortcomings. He learned how to slowly(...)
Yeah, that was his finest weapon. His enemies were that bored, that they were choosing to give up, to spare him a more self-humiliation

And yeah, that last one was a joke.

Yawn.... I love how people actually think Dooku, Maul and Kenobi are better than Vader lol

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
Yawn.... I love how people actually think Dooku, Maul and Kenobi are better than Vader lol

They're all in the same tier for me. None of the fights would be stomps.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
They're all in the same tier for me. None of the fights would be stomps.
Agreed. They are a tier below Yoda,Mace,Sidious and Anakin

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
If anything Dooku is more overrated in the forums. There are people who think he can legit stomp Darth Maul and beat Mace Windu for whatever reason.

Dooku would not stomp Maul nor Kenobi. He should takes a great majority over Kenobi, I'm not sure if Kenobi would be able to even beat him. Something between 0-2 out of 10.
Maul would be far worse, Dooku should have an advantage in regular fights, buf if Maul would enter to his enraged mode, like he did at the end of his duel with Sidious... I'm not sure who would get a majority in that situation.
Mace is just another, overated guy. He was a level 9 in Gillard's opinion and that's was all that somehow made reasoneable to put him close to Yoda/Sidious' league. But it ended, like many others things. Mace couldn't dominate Talzin in sword fight (like Sidious could, when she was in Dooku's body and Sidious himself declared that her skill are inferior to Dook's - at least when she was in his body), he didn't seem to be in advantage against Maul (while being supported by Ayla). His reactions weren't good enough, to dodge a rocker, that Maul dodged. Mace should be lucky, that Filoni hadn't use him more.
And at the end of the day, even Gillard retconed his "level" to "8 bordering 9".
And that difference "really is the dark side".

Originally posted by McP
Dooku would not stomp Maul nor Kenobi. He should takes a great majority over Kenobi, I'm not sure if Kenobi would be able to even beat him. Something between 0-2 out of 10.
Maul would be far worse, Dooku should have an advantage in regular fights, buf if Maul would enter to his enraged mode, like he did at the end of his duel with Sidious... I'm not sure who would get a majority in that situation.
Mace is just another, overated guy. He was a level 9 in Gillard's opinion and that's was all that somehow made reasoneable to put him close to Yoda/Sidious' league. But it ended, like many others things. Mace couldn't dominate Talzin in sword fight (like Sidious could, when she was in Dooku's body and Sidious himself declared that her skill are inferior to Dook's - at least when she was in his body), he didn't seem to be in advantage against Maul (while being supported by Ayla). His reactions weren't good enough, to dodge a rocker, that Maul dodged. Mace should be lucky, that Filoni hadn't use him more.
And at the end of the day, even Gillard retconed his "level" to "8 bordering 9".
And that difference "really is the dark side".
I'd say Kenobi can definitely beat Vader and Dooku in a pure lightsaber duel, but he is ****ed in an all out fight. Mace is tier 8 bordering 9. So he is still better than Dooku. Mace's fight with Talzin was inconclusive, and he was still pre prime then. ROTS is where we see Mace truly shine. And he legit contended and bested Sidious in a saber duel.

7 statements list Vader as superior to Anakin, several of which are G canon and the only one that disagrees is referring to potential not power. So how TF did CV/KMC come to the conclusion that Anakin>Vader.

Originally posted by McP
In EU/Legends Vader's, I'll call it a "neutral TK showings" are superior to Dooku's, indeed. But Dooku's TK showings vs other Force users are also far superior to Vader's, who, in fact, was never able to overhelm at least a decent enemy with his Force TK as I remember.

Didn't Vader ragdoll Starkiller? Many years before his prime too

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Didn't Vader ragdoll Starkiller? Many years before his prime too

Yes he did, a feat sadly ignored by most.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
7 statements list Vader as superior to Anakin, several of which are G canon and the only one that disagrees is referring to potential not power. So how TF did CV/KMC come to the conclusion that Anakin>Vader.

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Didn't Vader ragdoll Starkiller? Many years before his prime too

Since when "ragdoll" means being defeated twice? Or... wait, I remember! Vader ragdolled Starkiller indeed... after impaling him from behind. What a terrible stomp it was...

You grab your sabers and attack, but Vader is too powerful. He tosses you away like a rag doll.
-- Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II: Prima Official Game Guide

Also these two quotes put Vader as the second most powerful being in the galaxy, after the Emperor:

Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, has instilled terror throughout the galaxy since the beginning of the Empire. His devotion to the Emperor and mastery of the dark side gives him more power than any single individual in the galaxy except for the Emperor himself.
-- Shadows Of The Empire: Prince Xizor vs. Darth Vader Action Figure (Kenner)

In his distinctive black armor, Vader is an imposing figure. In the entire galaxy, he is second in power only to the Emperor himself.
-- Insider 65

So this nonsense about Ben Kenobi being > Vader needs to stop. (And it's not referring to political power, as Tarkin has been established as the second in command)

Originally posted by One Big Mob
You seen his post and you decided to literally run away in real life?

No one can handle the deathslash. He's only at breaktheskinslash levels too. Or he stalked me to my Ohio abode knowing full well I was set to jog soon knowing I would be busy. This kind of cowardice deserves a ruthless response I am set to give. Do not grieve for him after my post ends his reckless life.

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Also these two quotes put Vader as the second most powerful being in the galaxy, after the Emperor:

Dark Vader, Darth Lord of the Sith, has instilled terror throughout the galaxy since the beginning of the Empire. His devotion to the Emperor and mastery of the darth side gives him more power than any single individual in the galaxy except for the Emperor himself.
-- Shadows Of The Empire: Prince Xizor vs. Dark Vader Action Figure (Kenner)

In his distinctive black armor, Vader is an imposing figure. In the entire galaxy, he is second in power only to the Emperor himself.
-- Insider 65

So this nonsense about Ben Kenobi being > Vader needs to stop. (And it's not referring to political power, as Darkin has been established as the second in command) Fixed

Yeah Vader wins

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Also these two quotes put Vader as the second most powerful being in the galaxy, after the Emperor:

Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, has instilled terror throughout the galaxy since the beginning of the Empire. His devotion to the Emperor and mastery of the dark side gives him more power than any single individual in the galaxy except for the Emperor himself.
-- Shadows Of The Empire: Prince Xizor vs. Darth Vader Action Figure (Kenner)

In his distinctive black armor, Vader is an imposing figure. In the entire galaxy, he is second in power only to the Emperor himself.
-- Insider 65

So this nonsense about Ben Kenobi being > Vader needs to stop. (And it's not referring to political power, as Tarkin has been established as the second in command)

Many sources tout Vader, not Tarkin, as politically second-in-command, so that argument seems baseless.

More importantly, the first quote is after Ben Kenobi dies, although you'll have to prove when the first is dated.

Originally posted by DarthCaedus77
7 statements list Vader as superior to Anakin, several of which are G canon and the only one that disagrees is referring to potential not power. So how TF did CV/KMC come to the conclusion that Anakin>Vader.
Lmao. Do you even know what G-Canon is?

Originally posted by deathslash
I know that the vast majority of what you say is pure trolling, but for anyone that's actually wondering, I'll say this:

1. RotS Anakin beat the brakes off of Dooku when he began raging out.
1. He came out on top at the peak of his physical apex. That is an entirely different matter than Darth Vader the burnt husk confined in a suit we see post Kenobi defeat.



That is fine and dandy but my issue is not his rage nor has it ever been. My issue is with his lack of mobility and that he was far past his prime in the Ot than at the end of the Pt. False equivalency.

Why is he not? Vader was a shell of his former self and was shown extremely vulnerable to fl. Dooku was subservient to Sidious and did not actecky fight back. If you let someone cut your throat that does not mean they could accomplish the same result if you were actively opposed in combat.

You are free to believe Vader solos the Star Wars universe for all I care but it is proof of your inherent bias more than an accurate indictator of anything even resembling objectivity.
Unproven. Lucas intended for the Jedi and Sith in the Ot to be well behind their primes especially if we are discussing physically. Now I am not saying Dooku was spry but he was a lot more impressive than Vader who failed to gain an advantage on a much older Kenobi.

Vader is a lot slower, less maneuverable, and the armor makes him more of a liability due to the fact a lightsaber can cut through it like flesh just as easily. His skill was not enough to even properly lambaste an inexperienced, and brash Esb Skywalker. He took a shoulder graze by someone who should have never touched him at that point in his life.

Sorry but the Ot was not the prime era of Jedi or Sith. Vader was far more dangerous in rots in a combat situation than the Frankensteins monster we see at the end of the film.

XPrime, who are you on ComicVine?

I don't have an account

what powers do you have

Iirc he's got a very long penis and a slightly below average girth. It's like ET's finger.

Bart, it seems he's more powerful than you.

Ant's debunked this crap a million times over, lol.

"debunked"

Originally posted by McP
In EU/Legends Vader's, I'll call it a "neutral TK showings" are superior to Dooku's, indeed. But Dooku's TK showings vs other Force users are also far superior to Vader's, who, in fact, was never able to overhelm at least a decent enemy with his Force TK as I remember. + some statements that was just a shadow of his former self blablabla
Legends Dooku, Mace, Maul, Kenobi before ANH > Vader tbh.




In Canon, he won the first round against Rebels Ashoka (a peer of Rebels Maul), via a TK attack.

In Legends he has ragdolled Starkiller.

Plus His feats on inanimate objects in both Legends and Canon EU are amongst the best in the saga.

So combine that with the fact that Dooku has been choked/ragdolled by an enraged Savage, and casually choked by Sidious from light years away, I think its clear that if either of these 2 are going to win via TK, its Vader. Theres simply no way it will go the other way around.

Ahsoka being a peer of a post-prime Maul isn't a good thing, lmao.

*An utterly exhausted Starkiller

Vader can crumple TIE's and collapse cathedrals, but he can't even break through the force barrier of someone below Maul. Solidly cementing his place next to Asajj

Post Prime Maul isnt much different to Prime Maul tbh. Except he can be more clumsy due to being highly frustrated by that point in his life.

Ashoka is a clumsy free version. IOW A near equal of Prime Maul. And Vader DID bypass her Force barrier by TKing her with a Force slam.

With Starkiller their TK was pretty equal, neither able to overpower the other. That in itself states volumes. And according to Witwer, that was Vader massively holding back.

In Canon his TK feats are absolutely ridiculous. Disney is clearly hyping up Vader as the next biggest bad ass after Palpatine.

I mean chopping up X-Wings mid flight, and literally redirecting shot torpedos.

Ventress really? Shes been compared to Inquisitors. The same Inquisitors which Ashoka could stomp 2 of them, and Maul hold his own against 3.

Highly frustrated because he accomplished nothing and still has trouble with Padawans? Quite telling.


If Vader truly is second only to the Emperor, he should be able to throw Ahsoka around like a ragdoll. Neither her nor Maul have any force defense feats in canon that put them above Barriss Offee, so it should be game, set, & match within seconds for someone with a reputation as pristine as Vader's... oh wait.



Witwer also states the game is heavily exaggerated, and basically everything in TFU either didn't really happen, or should be scaled down tenfold. So those feats amount to nothing



Vader's feats aren't even close to Ommin level.



Yeah this isn't really impressive.


With an off-hand comment by Filoni being your only piece of 'evidence.' Ventress is demonstrably better, in every way, and Filoni even admits that she's more powerful than the best of the Inquisitors. However, unsurprisingly, we do get a contradictory message in him noting that the Grand Inquisitor would be "a lot harder pressed" against a Council member. So you can't in good faith claim that the Inquisitors as whole are on her level, when the GI who's supposed to be the best of the bunch, isn't even low Council-level. We've seen Asajj contend and defeat some of the best on the Council before her prime, so this is Filoni being dumb/doing damage control for his terrible, cartoonish villains in his horrific kid's show

Palpatine also views Vader as a threat. I don't believe he ever saw Dooku as one. I'll post the quote(s) for this later today since I have to leave for work right now. I believe there's a couple of them.

He views everyone as a threat, hence his demanding of Dooku to kill off Asajj. He certainly viewed Jedi Dooku as a threat in 'Plagueis.'

Originally posted by xPRIMEx
Palpatine also views Vader as a threat. I don't believe he ever saw Dooku as one. I'll post the quote(s) for this later today since I have to leave for work right now. I believe there's a couple of them. Due to Dooku being a cuck. I would venture to bet Dooku had an erection at the time of Sheevs betrayal. When he said, Do it, blood rushed into Dookus penis cutting off his ability to preserve his life.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Highly frustrated because he accomplished nothing and still has trouble with Padawans? Quite telling.



What Padawans? Lol




Originally posted by RealistRacism


If Vader truly is second only to the Emperor, he should be able to throw Ahsoka around like a ragdoll. Neither her nor Maul have any force defense feats in canon that put them above Barriss Offee, so it should be game, set, & match within seconds for someone with a reputation as pristine as Vader's... oh wait



Urm, 2nd baddest villain to Sidious. So why should he be casually ragdolling Rebels Ashoka who is likely TCW/ROTS Kenobi level?

Ah okay, so if in doubt put Force defences of highly skilled and powerful Force users on par with a Padawan like Barriss Offee. Makes sense.

You do realise all the Inquisitors are former Jedi right? And Maul was ragdolling them. Hes also force smacked Kenobi around in the past and scales above Opress who has Force smacked Council Masters around.


Originally posted by RealistRacism

Witwer also states the game is heavily exaggerated, and basically everything in TFU either didn't really happen, or should be scaled down tenfold. So those feats amount to nothing


In the context of canon thats true. However for Legends (where almost everything is exaggerated), those feats are total legit.

I have been pointing out how highly Vader scales in both Legends and Canon. So I refer to Rebels and Marvel comics for Canon, and to TFU and Dark Horse comics for Legends.

TCW counts as both Legends and Canon.


Originally posted by RealistRacism

Vader's feats aren't even close to Ommin level.


Yeah this isn't really impressive.




He also crushed an AT-AT with TK whilst it was trying to stamp on him.

By all means, let me know which TK Feats you think are impressive in Canon and lets compare.


Originally posted by RealistRacism



With an off-hand comment by Filoni being your only piece of 'evidence.' Ventress is demonstrably better, in every way, and Filoni even admits that she's more powerful than the best of the Inquisitors. However, unsurprisingly, we do get a contradictory message in him noting that the Grand Inquisitor would be "a lot harder pressed" against a Council member. So you can't in good faith claim that the Inquisitors as whole are on her level, when the GI who's supposed to be the best of the bunch, isn't even low Council-level. We've seen Asajj contend and defeat some of the best on the Council before her prime, so this is Filoni being dumb/doing damage control for his terrible, cartoonish villains in his horrific kid's show


Given these are 2 different time periods Director commentary may be our best way to powerscale between them.

Nobody asked Filoni to compare to Ventress, he brought up that comparison himself.

Filoni clearly rates Council Members highly. That doesnt contradict anything. He had Ventress have trouble against a non- Council Master in Luminara.

Pretty sure 7th sister was close to GI. She was hyped as being the best, and she was ragdolled by Maul

Dont forget all Inquisitors are former Jedi

Originally posted by RealistRacism
He views everyone as a threat, hence his demanding of Dooku to kill off Asajj. He certainly viewed Jedi Dooku as a threat in 'Plagueis.'
No one here takes your Vader lowballing seriously here.

Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
No one here takes your Vader lowballing seriously here.

Don't bother with him, he's not worth the time, dude was banned on this site and CV multiple times.

Dooku performed better in sabers against a stronger opponent than Vader.

He curbslaughters.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Dooku performed better in sabers against a stronger opponent than Vader.

He curbslaughters.

Yoda isn't>Vader when his equal is stated by 7 different sources to be inferior to a pre prime Vader, not to mention Pre Suit Vader stomped Dooku, and Dooku never held his own against Yoda.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Dooku performed better in sabers against a stronger opponent than Vader.




Performed better than who/what?

Is just fighting Yoda a feat now? Well tbf I guess it is if we are comparing him to Kit Fisto or Plo Koon, but he needs more than getting into a fight when comparing to Vader.

Lucas suggests Luke's potential to be similar to Anakin's

The Anakin that fought Dooku is much more trained and learned in the ways of the Force than the Luke that fought Vader.

So, Anakin@Invisible Hand >> Luke@2nd Death Star

Ergo, Dooku >/>> Vader in effective combat terms.

QED

Deal with it. Suit Vader is TCW Obi Wan tier in terms of combat effectiveness - and that's being generous. Ziggy might be right saying he's Ventress level. Dooku could probably solo two Vaders.

Dooku godstomps.

Convinced your trolling but whatever.

The first part is serious, though. There's little basis to assume RotJ Luke to be superior to RotS Anakin.

Luke was rage amped when he fought Vader. Irrelevant.

Ant already covered that in his debate.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Ant already covered that in his debate.

You mean in the debate where Az is winning, that one?

kek

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
kek

Don't get me wrong, Ant has done well, his second post in particular was fantastic but Az is slightly better in my opinion.

I'd rather let them finish before I manifest myself on the subject of who did better.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
The first part is serious, though. There's little basis to assume RotJ Luke to be superior to RotS Anakin.


Yeah except ROTS Anakin is like Yoda/Sidious tier (In Sabers at least).

Easily Mace Windu tier in an all out, thats for sure.

Except Kenobi matched him in sabers.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah except ROTS Anakin is like Yoda/Sidious tier (In Sabers at least).

Easily Mace Windu tier in an all out, thats for sure.

Luke was amped in any case so it's not relevant.

And Az has already effectively proven Prime Vader>Sidious .

Originally posted by quanchi112
Except Kenobi matched him in sabers.



I guess that means Anakin cant take Dooku either... Oh wait...

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I guess that means Anakin cant take Dooku either... Oh wait...

Kenobi was destroyed by Anakin until his amp lol.

Kenobi also taught Anakin. Knows his moves and weaknesses inside out.

Look what short work he made out of Maul in Rebels having learned his moves and weaknesses over the years. And his experience with Maul does not even compare to how well he knows Anakin in combat.