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Who would win between the former Jedi Masters Count Dooku and Mace Windu. Note I said former because Dooku leaves and becomes a Sith and Mace gets killed. I would say Dooku since he is clearly able to keep his own against Obi-Wan and Obi is stronger then Mace because only the two strongest Jedi survive the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan and Yoda.

mace wendu
he defeats jango fet and could of also killed palpatine if anacin didn't interfear. Note alpatine defeated yoda. " failed i have, go into exile i must" so palpatine is a preddy strong dude. he is the one that is dokus master. and mace deafeated him pretty much so. mace wins

True but Dooku also held his own against the strongest Jedi, Yoda for a good bit till he knew when to go. If Dooku would have stayed Clone Troopers would have been on him plus Yoda. And Dooku is clearly stronger in the force then Obi so Dooku wouldn't have a problem taking on Mace.

doesn't matter they're both dead now.

mace windu by far

They are about equal. I can respect a fight between them going either way. General Zodiac, Obi-wan definatly isn't better than Mace. Mace defeated Sidious and Yoda told Obi-wan that he would never be strong enough to fight Sidious.

I say it could go either way.

Mace wouldve beat palpatine if not for ani. but that maks no sense cause if you think about it yoda couldnt beat palp. and yoda is supposed 2 be better then mace.

anyway,dooku held his own vs yoda and wasnt killed and yoda is better then Mace so you could say that he wold beat sn easyer foe: mace. But U could also argue that yoda wouldve killed dooku if he didnt have 2 save anie.

god anie. is such a problem

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
They are about equal. I can respect a fight between them going either way. General Zodiac, Obi-wan definatly isn't better than Mace. Mace defeated Sidious and Yoda told Obi-wan that he would never be strong enough to fight Sidious.

good point

jango no jediOriginally posted by Clawed The Bum
mace wendu
he defeats jango fet and could of also killed palpatine if anacin didn't interfear. Note alpatine defeated yoda. " failed i have, go into exile i must" so palpatine is a preddy strong dude. he is the one that is dokus master. and mace deafeated him pretty much so. mace wins

Darth_Glentract
About Yoda telling Obi he isn't strong enough to defeat Sidious, Yoda doesn't know how strong Sidious was and he didn't want to take a chance.

I know Yoda lost, but through the whole battle, he had the advantage over Palpatine and was pushing him away. Plus when Mace deflected his force lightening at Palpatine, it totally crippled his already mangled face, but when used of Yoda he just got up and still gave as good as he got.
Mace beat Palpatine because it was purely lightsabre skills with no force involved. If it was under the same circumstances for Yoda and Palp, Yoda would have beat his ugly ass all over the planet. . .

Anyways I think that Mace would eventually come out the victor, but it wouldnt be an easy fight.

Dooku. According to Star Wars.com databank...

"Only two combatants have ever bested Mace in combat. Yoda and Dooku."

Obviously Dooku is the superior duelist.

Eh wrong...

When did Dooku beat Mace? At least 13 years before ROTS because thats the time he left the order... Thats at the very minimal... Mace would have improved a lot, all Dooku could have done sinse then is... Well nothing he had already perfected his lightsaber style.

True. But we have no proof to say who would win now. But back then, Mace would have easily gotten owned. Dunno about now.

I'd have to say Mace, because he almost killed Dooku's Master, Sidious.

id say mace

hmm...this is a very even fight..dunno, could go either way.

Windu wipes the floor with Dooku, after all Windu is like the best duelist of all time.

Mace, because he's said to be the 2nd strongest jedi only behind Yoda, and if Anakin could take Dooku, I"m sure Mace who was stronger than Anakin could kill him too.

To me Count Dooku was the heir to one of the greatest duelist of all time, since Tulak Hord's time...He's beat Mace before so...it all stands on which version of the character we are talking about.

I still don't see how these newbies come into this forum, and not see the Vs. sub-forum!!!

Post in the right areas guys, they are there for a reason.

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
To me Count Dooku was the heir to one of the greatest duelist of all time, since Tulak Hord's time...He's beat Mace before so...it all stands on which version of the character we are talking about.
And where do you get your info? Mace Windu easily kills Count, Mace has the best fighting style....... Form VII: Juyo/ Vaapaad heres some info on it.


Dubbed the "Way of the Vornskr," Form VII was an incomplete form for millennia. It was further developed by Jedi Master Mace Windu, who could complete it with his, "Vaapaad" style. The most challenging and demanding of all forms, Form VII requires extreme, intense focus, high levels of skill, and mastery of other forms. Only two Jedi have ever mastered Form VII fully, Mace Windu and Depa Billaba. One other Jedi, Sora Bulq, mastered its physical aspects but was overwhelmed by the required mental discipline. Form VII, when fully mastered, results in extraordinary power.

Mace Windu easily takes Dooku.

Yes. But Dooku's form is Makishi (I don't think the spelling is accurate) and is the form best used in lightsabre combat. According to the games and to Wikipedia, Makishi is the BEST form to use in direct lightsaber combat - which is why Dooku so easily overcame Obi-Wan and Anakin in Attack of the Clones - and why he held them both off in ROTS.

If we are going by the George Lucas interview, then Dooku doesn't even make the top five:

Per George Lucas:

1.) Sidious
2.) Yoda
3.) Obi-Wan
4.) Mace
5.) Luke

Arbiter- Obi-Wan is better because he survived the Clone Wars and Mace didn't. No. You're a fool if you think that.

Dooku wins this one..no sweat

I wouldn't say that just yet. No one could take Mace easily. He and Dooku are almost even.

Mace might pull it off.

well to be honest i only said that cuz people in here seem to think dooku dosent have a chance when in plain reality its the other way around. and for jedi master Luke5 its in the star wars databank that dooku did indeed beat mace as well as yoda has beaten him. he is one of my favorites but he is not better than dooku.

ohh and plz dont try to throw saber forms in there and jus automatically assume he can win. vaapad is not the best fighting style thats jus speculation and jus cuz its hard to master is because nobody ever mastered it nor even bothered with it. its a made up self sytle. so if no one is around to teach you of course its gonna be hard. thats common sense. how would you play sports when no one has taught you how. and if you learned by urself too does that jus autmatically mean ur the best. Please................. Dooku is one of the best duelist the order has ever had. dooku wins hands down

Ok, this is kind of stupid.
I would give Count Dooku ten seconds, tops, against Mace Windu.
Why?
Because of VAPAAD!!!!
Holy crap! Dosen't anyone know about it?
It reflects the Dark Side and allows its user to use the extra energy wafting off the opponant to his advantage.
Thats why Sidious slowly lost to Windu.
If Mace used Vapaad against Dooku, Dooku would get his butt kicked in under ten seconds. If you don't beleive me, read in more depth about Vapaad, you'll see what im talking about.

Mace Wins, end of story.

(This is stupid, Mace can beat Dooku easily, they need to make a Mace Windu w/o Vapaad Versus Count Dooku. Then Dooku would have a good chance. He'd still lose though.)

(Mace has mastered 7 forms of lightsaber combat.
Dooku?
1.
Mace Wins.)

Look at the date you... Will I get in trouble if I call him a dumb ****? Oh well. They are close, Mace wouldn't win easily, and this thread will be closed.

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck
Ok, this is kind of stupid.
I would give Count Dooku ten seconds, tops, against Mace Windu.
Why?
Because of VAPAAD!!!!
Holy crap! Dosen't anyone know about it?
It reflects the Dark Side and allows its user to use the extra energy wafting off the opponant to his advantage.
Thats why Sidious slowly lost to Windu.
If Mace used Vapaad against Dooku, Dooku would get his butt kicked in under ten seconds. If you don't beleive me, read in more depth about Vapaad, you'll see what im talking about.

Mace Wins, end of story.

(This is stupid, Mace can beat Dooku easily, they need to make a Mace Windu w/o Vapaad Versus Count Dooku. Then Dooku would have a good chance. He'd still lose though.)

(Mace has mastered 7 forms of lightsaber combat.
Dooku?
1.
Mace Wins.)

OMG!!! Thats the biggest pile of bullsh*t I ever heard in my life!! Im not even going to bother arguing the points because they are so wrong. I mean 10 seconds - do you even know who Count Dooku is?

id obviously go with mace but dooku could hold it off for a while. if you take the forms as cannon and apply them to the battle then mace would win as he, as said before, uses vapaad which uses the enmies strengh and the darkside against them, giving mace extra strengh and power. he would win against dooku, why do you think sam played him!

vapaad is the best of all the forms (exept maybe niman if it was trained to a very high degree), its the hardest form to learn and noone bothered to learn it because it was so hard to master, only mace was able to stay on the lightside. the main effects are that the user can use the enemies anger and hate against then, turning the battle in thier favor.

dooku's makashi relies on precise cuts and movements and timings. dooku even noted that a makashi fighter could never match the power generated by djem so users, and since mace was a master of both vapaad and djem so (vapaad uses the same amount of kenetic energy) he would be able to force dooku back. makashi is an elegant form of an arragant user. the fight would be like dooku vs ani on the invisable hand

the reson ani and obi lost in ep2 was that they were only skilled at jedi knight level. ep3 shows all thier skills at the peak of the saga.

in dooku's defense, he uses makashi, which relies on precisecuts and perfect timing but he couldn't win. if mace bested palp' in combat, palp' uses more than makashi (eg shii-cho and niman) in the battle, then dooku couldn't win.

mace hasn't studied all forms of combat, in ep3 i onlt noted 3 styles in the palp' battle, vapaad, djem so and shii-cho.

as for rampant ox, and for that matter any people who are bias, use common sense and realise mace is stronger than obi-wan, anakin and dooku.

in the star wars databank, it does say that he was beaten by yoda and dooku but that was 13 years ago and mace hadent perfected his vapaad by then.

overall, mace would win but dooku would hold out for a while. id personally put it as the same lengh as the invisable hand battle or the ani vs obi battle, and it'd be just as aggressive.

Why revive this old thread?

to settle the point and prove that mace would win, and i haven't been on for a while

Originally posted by Rampant ox
OMG!!! Thats the biggest pile of bullsh*t I ever heard in my life!! Im not even going to bother arguing the points because they are so wrong. I mean 10 seconds - do you even know who Count Dooku is?


Yeah, you Dumb@$$ of course I know who Count Dooku is.
That's why I know He'd lose against Mace, I've wasted alot of my time studying the Sith and Jedi inside and out, including their proponants.

Now mabye Dooku woulden't lose in ten seconds but I would give him half the time Palpatine had before he was defeated.

Also, Vapaad is canon. It was created and put into one of the official novels which actaully does make it canon.

Lastly, I don't give a flying flip about wether or not this topic is old. Ive seen way too many Dumb@$$ scenarios where people say Dooku would beat Mace, even though Mace has Vapaad, so Dooku woulden't even get close to beating him.
I mean, I'd have figured that most Star Wars fans(serious ones) would know what Vapaad was, I mean exactly what it is.
I'ts more than just a fighting style like Juyo, It's a mindset, its a way of perceiving the Force. Mace's Vapaad gives him a significant advantage over most of the Sith Lords in the Star Wars Universe.
(Of course, not Marka Ragnos or Darth Nihlus or Exar Kun. But still, most others would fall to him.)

Well, this is it, hope you don't mind too much.
And Rampant OX I suggest you pull your head out of your rear end and set aside some time to seriously read up on Vapaad. Then you'll be able to make a properly informed desiscion.

Thanks.

Come on. This thread should be in the vs. forum, and it has been argued so many times!!! Anyway, Mace wins. Why? Well even if people say Sidious was only playing with Mace during their duel, there's no source that says that. So, we can declare that Mace is basically the same lv as Palps. However, Palps is definately greater than Dooku. Plus, Dooku is lesser than Anakin, and Anakin is definately weaker than Windu.

BTW, Master Starbuck, calm down

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Come on. This thread should be in the vs. forum, and it has been argued so many times!!! Anyway, Mace wins. Why? Well even if people say Sidious was only playing with Mace during their duel, there's no source that says that. So, we can declare that Mace is basically the same lv as Palps. However, Palps is definately greater than Dooku. Plus, Dooku is lesser than Anakin, and Anakin is definately weaker than Windu.

BTW, Master Starbuck, calm down

To be fair. Palpatine would have won even if Anakin had come in. He could have easily overpowered Mace with the Force.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
To be fair. Palpatine would have won even if Anakin had come in. He could have easily overpowered Mace with the Force.

Really?

Didn't read the rest of the thread but

Vaapad > Makashi

mace wins case closed

Really, then why didn't he? Yes, the Force Lightning was not the true extent of Sids power, but nevertheless Mace's Vapaad would have defeated it.

Mace wins this fight, though it will be well fought by Dooku.

yes

How is Vaapad relevent when parrying force lightning? Sidious would have overpowered Mace through the force, even in that unfair position...

dispite what you think uuuuummmmm





no

Great, I really feel pursuaded....

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
Really, then why didn't he? Yes, the Force Lightning was not the true extent of Sids power, but nevertheless Mace's Vapaad would have defeated it.

Mace wins this fight, though it will be well fought by Dooku.

Because it was clear Palpatine wanted to turn Anakin. He figured why not kill two birds with one stone. Come on from "I'm too weak; please don't kill me" to "Power! Unlimited power!!" the point where he blasted him forty feet away. Yeah, Palpatine was safe.

Mace beat Palpatine, he couldn't take the risk of Anakin not turning, and he was obviously fighting at his best

And don't you believe Supershadow ESB?

No. The first time he held back Sids lightning, but after Anakin cut off his hand he blasted him away with lightning. Anyway, the point is whether Dooku can beat Mace. Mace is definately on par with Sids, and Sids is greater tha Dooku.

Sidious was never tired. He faked because if he did not stop, Anakin would not see him as this "weak Chancellor" but as a jedi killer. Palpatine said that he was weak, and begged him not to kill him. When Mace refused, Anakin thought the jedi were corrupted, since this man was begging for his life, yet got no mercy, exactly what Sidious wanted.

If you look carefully at that scene, you can see, right before when Sidious stops using lightning, that Mace gets hit on the hand by the lightning and removes one of his hands. Now since Sidious wasn't really tired, he could have continued, and with one hand, Mace would have 1/2 his strenght, and no balance at all with his blade, thus gotten overpowered.....

Very well, you may be right. The point is however that Mace Windu is greater than Count Dooku. Period.

Originally posted by Quinlan_Vos
The point is however that Mace Windu is greater than Count Dooku. Period.

The point is you are wrong.

Force wise, definitely. Dueling ability, probably.

^Who are you referring to?

Force wise, I'd say Dooku.
What has Mace done to be put by Dooku? So he pushed around alot of droids when he fought on Dantooine, wow. Everyone can push a droid, the only difference was that Mace force push had longer range and he did it for a much longer time. The effect wasn't really much different from what Anakin and Obi-Wan did when they fought, Anakin even did a similair move during the beginning of the clone wars, as a padawan.

Didn't Mace in Shatterpoint confess that Dooku was superior to him anyway? I need to recheck that....

Anyway, Dooku also uses alot more offensive powers, like lightning, tossing things, gripping etc. The fact that he uses one hand free in a fight makes him able to use force powers during a duel, which would again put him as better suited in the force in a fight....


(Not saying Dooku is definently superior to Mace, but just saying that I think Dooku is a little superior in the force)

Yes, perhaps Dooku may have a wider arsenal of Force Powers. However, Mace's Vapaad is a superconducting loop that reflect back Dooku's anger, speed, and Force Lightning. In addition, Mace's shatterpoint can see Dooku's vulnerability.

In addition, let's use simple logic. Anakin Skywalker defeated Dooku, and according to you Rampant Ox, Mace is lesser than Dooku. So is Anakin greater than Mace, of course not!!! Yes, Mace might have claimed that Dooku was greater than him, but how many years ago does that pertain to? Mace>Anakin>Dooku.

Yeah, Mace style has to much kinetic power for Dooku's to handle...

guys. dooku wins. rampant ox aka christopher lee's number 1 fan stated enuff reasons.. dooku is considered in the top 10 sith. and he can't beat mace ? what is this ?? mace got UBERRR OWNED by dooku 13years b4 rots.. mace had perfected his style since then. dooku still owns him 13 years later. end of story.

Originally posted by Infinity
guys. dooku wins. rampant ox aka christopher lee's number 1 fan stated enuff reasons.. dooku is considered in the top 10 sith. and he can't beat mace ? what is this ?? mace got UBERRR OWNED by dooku 13years b4 rots.. mace had perfected his style since then. dooku still owns him 13 years later. end of story.

You do realize that 13 years is the difference between this:
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6e/250px-Anyanakin.jpeg

and this:
http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/4/41/CinDrallig.jpg/250px-CinDrallig.jpg

Right?

Oh shit! Infinity got SeRvEd™!

Originally posted by Infinity
guys. dooku wins. rampant ox aka christopher lee's number 1 fan stated enuff reasons..

He didn't even list anything of real value. "l0l DuN m0ch". Wow. Dün Moch. Yeah, that's going to work on one as skilled as Mace Windu. Please.



Yeah, what is this? Even if you were the "Numero Uno" Sith, it doesn't mean you can't beat say even the third or fourth best Jedi. That's outright fallacious, and devoid of any logical reasoning. Mace Windu is also in the "Top 10 Jedi", so I fail to see how that accounts for anything. You act as if ranking = victory. Sorry, but that's got to be the dumbest thing said.



First, let me "LOL".

LOL!

Second, prove he got "uberrr owned". Do we even know the context of the fight? Third, thirteen years before ROTS? As I said, jollyjim already served your ass, son. Anyways, what's your point? A victory in the past means jack shit. Am I going to believe that Darth Vader can beat Luke in an all-our fight thirteen years after ESB? Nope. Doesn't work that way, and it doesn't matter one damn bit.



No. End. Of. Story. Btw, neither combatant would "own" in this fight. Quit being a Rampant Ox and Dooku fanboy, it's really ridiculous.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Ill argue with Sith Lord Windu first. Newb ill get to you later...

Rampant, how can you of all people call anyone a "newb"? Jesus F'ing Christ.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Ill argue with Sith Lord Windu first. Newb ill get to you later...


You'll get to me later? How 'bout I get to you?

You seem to forget that Juyo is ALSO a lightsaber on lightsaber Form.
It has all the elements of Makashi incorperated into it, so Mace already knows its weaknesses and strengths. This means even without Vapaad he would just slightly be able to best Dooku in a duel.

With it, however...

Also, Dun Moch woulden't work on Windu. His self-discipline and mental focus is too strong for it to affect him, so you can throw that out the window.
Indeed, you sound like a true mongoloid if you cant study the facts.
Of course, Mace could beat Dooku. The Vapaad is as much evidence as you need. Even an idiot like you should be able to see that.
Oh, and by the way, It sounds to me like your the noob, you don't even know what Vappad is! LOL.

Why don't you pull your head out of your arse, wipe the sh!t out of your eyes and see the truth.

Mace Windu beats the unliving crap out of Count Dooku.

End of story.

No he does beat the unliving crap (eww what a disgusting comment, unliving crap) out of Dooku. He just wins comfortably.

this is the end of the thread


Mace beats Dooku. whether you say he owns him or just wins, HE WINS!

Again, Mace's Vaapad > Dooku's Makashi
/threadclosed

Originally posted by Master_Starbuck

You seem to forget that Juyo is ALSO a lightsaber on lightsaber Form.
It has all the elements of Makashi incorperated into it, so Mace already knows its weaknesses and strengths. This means even without Vapaad he would just slightly be able to best Dooku in a duel.

Just because Mace might know elements of Makashi hardly means that Mace knows the weaknesses, strengths and how to utilise it properly. Ill agree that Vapaad will be a massive advantage in this battle but not the deciding factor. And without it Mace will die. There power levels are only seperated by a hair anyway.



Hell yes Mace has alot of self discipline etc. But that doesnt mean it wont effect him. Dooku has known Mace for many years while in the order. Meaning that he may (or may not) be able to get inside his head and bring up some bitter memories from the past. Also Dooku knows how to wind him up. They fought together and used to be friends after all. And on top of all this Dooku is a very apt speaker (He is a politician lol). He used it on Obi-Wan who is very strong minded. "Surely you can do better" and "Master Kenobi you dissapoint me, Yoda holds you in such high esteem". Following this he got his leg and arm almost cut in half.





Vapaad is not solely going to win Mace the fight. Its like saying Mace will go in with no force powers, no shatterpoint and still be expected to win because he knows Vapaad. Mace will get pwned like that.



I didnt call you a noob I called you a newb. This means you are new - I think your grand total of posts is 5. Next time read what I said. And yes I do know what Vapaad is. You must know very little about Dooku though if you think he will be beaten so easily.



Hardly. If Mace was to win, which is perfectly feasible because they are so close in power, it will be extremely close. Why dont you read up on Dooku and get a taste for how powerful he is. He is not weak like you make him out to be. Dooku and Mace are within a hair of each other in terms of power.

What exactly is Shatterpoint? I never read any Prequel Era Novels, and Mace's Vaapad will be what gives him the advantage, not too mention he's younger than Dooku. Also where they fight would be a big factor

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
What exactly is Shatterpoint? I never read any Prequel Era Novels, and Mace's Vaapad will be what gives him the advantage, not too mention he's younger than Dooku. Also where they fight would be a big factor

I dont know how to explain a shatterpoint. Correct me if im wrong but it is something that Mace can do which will cause a chain reaction and change the future. For example Dooku was the Clone Wars shatterpoint, and had Mace killed him then the war wouldnt have begun.

Vappad will probably be the biggest factor in the battle, but this doesnt mean it is going to win Mace the fight. Dooku has mastered, perfected and modified Makashi - the lightsaber to lightsaber form. Also age wont be that big of a factor. Dooku is said to be as fit as a 40 year old and his style prevents him from tiring quickly.

See how you're such a hypocrite yet, Rampant?

No. Please enlighten me.

You cannot be surrr-ious, son. You claimed that Dooku's age was a fiz-actor, saying shit like "Dooku's 80 vs. Two fit, young men", heavily implying one factor that lead to Dooku's loss was his age. Now, you say it doesn't matter!

Now, are you f*cking down? Or are you "f*cking" down? You tell me, son. I don't play these games.

Originally posted by Advent
You cannot be surrr-ious, son. You claimed that Dooku's age was a fiz-actor, saying shit like "Dooku's 80 vs. Two fit, young men", heavily implying one factor that lead to Dooku's loss was his age. Now, you say it doesn't matter!

Yes, because in that battle he was physically unable to keep up with the duo - Anakin in particular. We have all seen the quotes about how Dooku wasnt strong enough to keep up with Anakins attacks. But in this battle it is one on one, thus Dooku doesnt have to worry about keeping up with two lightsabers. Also Mace is not as strong as a fully enraged Anakin. Dooku is more than fit enough to keep up with Mace. However his style may not be - it depends how he blocks Mace's attacks.



wtf

Just more countless http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2495/dotskw3.gif from Rampant ox. You gotta' love it.

Dooku has already proven himself superior to Mace Windu in lightsaber combat. It says so under the EU part of Mace Windu bio thing on www.starwars.com However, if people argue that that was probably before Mace developed Vaapad, I say it's all we have to see who's the better fighter.

Originally posted by Council#13
Dooku has already proven himself superior to Mace Windu in lightsaber combat. It says so under the EU part of Mace Windu bio thing on www.starwars.com

Yeah, and it also has a grammatical error. "Only the most skilled of the Jedi could master the his Form VII discipline of combat." Anyways, that wasn't anytime recent. So, who cares?



No, it's not. It was a fight thirteen years ago. If it happened during ROTS, even AOTC - it'd be something to go on, however, it didn't. We've seen Anakin beat Dooku, whereas a few years prior he was tooled by him. We cannot base fights off one's that happened years ago. Now, if it were ROTS Anakin vs. ROTS Dooku (for a versus match), their fight in ROTS would definitely matter because it's the same incarnations we're discussing.

firstly, rampant, anakin wasn't enraged in the dooku fight. "you have anger, you have hate... but you do not use them" which CLEARLY states that anakin wasn't enraged. the only reson he killed dooku at the end of the battle was because he was manipulated by palp'. if anakin was enraged then he would have owned him quicker, and before you say he didnn't own him, ask yourself "why was dooku constantly moving batle and on the defense?". he even let him grab his hands before he cut them off!

secondly, dooku is old, his form does minamise energy loss but mace was, IMO, in his prime during ROTS, afteral he did beat palp'. this means that mace would have had the strengh and energy to kill dooku, it like the actors fighting if chris was 60 instead of 80.

lastly, dun moch wouldn't work, if you read the description of vapaad then you'll read that it was a stae of mind and the user had to enjoy the battle. even if he did, it wouldn't make mace doubt or make a mistake, he'd just get more aggresive and shorten the battle

Please, just end this thread.

Originally posted by Advent
You cannot be surrr-ious, son. a fiz-actor, Two fit, young men", Now, are you f*cking down? Or are you "f*cking" down? You tell me, son. I don't play these games.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
True but Dooku also held his own against the strongest Jedi, Yoda for a good bit till he knew when to go. If Dooku would have stayed Clone Troopers would have been on him plus Yoda. And Dooku is clearly stronger in the force then Obi so Dooku wouldn't have a problem taking on Mace.
jedi are trained to fight evasively whith the idea of letting your oppenent make a mistake and then take advantage of it. dooku forced yoda to make a dicision: take the point or save obi-wan and anikan...so i will have to say
definitely mace

you dont know whos gonna win other than skill theres luck for example mace loses his saber or dooku loss his saber you dont know when that mint happen

Yeah, and Mace might be hit in the face by an incredible leaping gopher. We're looking for the most logical outcome here, not "If"'s.

Originally posted by Darthburgerking
Mace, because he's said to be the 2nd strongest jedi only behind Yoda, and if Anakin could take Dooku, I"m sure Mace who was stronger than Anakin could kill him too.

theres no eveidence anywhere that mace was stronger than anakin.. when anakin defeated dooku that was to show the audience that now anakin is a fully fledged knight he is capable of taking down any jedi or sith. thats why hes the chosen one!

Originally posted by Mr Krieger
Again, Mace's Vaapad > Dooku's Makashi
/threadclosed

Dookus mastery of the force > Mace's

so even if Mace is the slightly better duelist, Dookus force abilities should easily even the odds.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Who would win between the former Jedi Masters Count Dooku and Mace Windu. Note I said former because Dooku leaves and becomes a Sith and Mace gets killed. I would say Dooku since he is clearly able to keep his own against Obi-Wan and Obi is stronger then Mace because only the two strongest Jedi survive the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Mace Windu. Especially before Dooku turned to the Dark Side. How is Obi-Wan more powerful than Mace? I remember interviews and other official lucasfilm publications stating Mace was the best and 2nd to only Yoda.

Originally posted by Fishy
Eh wrong...

When did Dooku beat Mace? At least 13 years before ROTS because thats the time he left the order... Thats at the very minimal... Mace would have improved a lot, all Dooku could have done sinse then is... Well nothing he had already perfected his lightsaber style.

Actually Dooku did get more powerful since then after turning to the dark side. Remember Yoda says to Dooku "Powerful you have become Dooku. hmm The Dark side i sense in you!"

are u kidding me? we are discussing this? after it died almost 2 years ago? and still in the EU section, not the VS. section.

Originally posted by truejedi
are u kidding me? we are discussing this? after it died almost 2 years ago? and still in the EU section, not the VS. section.

someone bumped it, its fair game.

The XYZ property actually works here. Mace was able to out duel Sidious who was Dooku's master and he has a greater force abilities than either of them. Not to mention he was a greater swordsman the Dooku to.

Originally posted by truejedi
are u kidding me? we are discussing this? after it died almost 2 years ago? and still in the EU section, not the VS. section.

sorry but i jus read this recently and wanted to respond to a few of the comments.. besides not a bad time to start discussing again since the clone wars animation will be out this year!

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
The XYZ property actually works here. Mace was able to out duel Sidious who was Dooku's master and he has a greater force abilities than either of them. Not to mention he was a greater swordsman the Dooku to.

well thats the thing though we only saw mace in that 1 fight with sidious really, and his whole support is based on that 1 fight which he won.. whilst with everyone else we've seen them win and lose.

for example if we only saw obi-wan fight grevious and anakin, i.e the fights he won, the our opinion of obi-wan's power ans skill wuld be very different.. also if there was no obi-wan vs. anakin fight then just about everyone would have assumed anakin wuld beat obi-wan because he beat dooku who humiliated obi-wan with that force throw.

I personally think that mace is as good as yoda or sidious in a sword fight, so that culd go either way. you can actually tell from the mace vs. sidioud sword fight that it could have gone either way.. However due to yodas and sidious's superior force powers they could in an all out fight take mace like 7/10 times.

Dooku on the other hand showed hes just a little below yoda in sword fighting, and pretty much just as good with the force.

So both Mace and Dooku's powers are very close to Yoda's and Sidious's with Mace seeminlgly having the advantage in sword fighting, but Dooku with Force abilities, so I say a very close fight that could go either way.

www.supershadow.com

SS, who would win in a fight: Yoda or Mace Windu (SuperShadow: A pure light saber duel would go in Windu's favor. A battle of only Force powers would end with Yoda the victor.) or Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi (SuperShadow: Obi-Wan is the luckiest Jedi of all time. He can't be defeated unless he sacrifices himself for the greater good.) or Yoda and Kenobi? (SuperShadow: Obi-Wan for the same reasons as against Windu.)

Our questions have been answered!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
well thats the thing though we only saw mace in that 1 fight with sidious really, and his whole support is based on that 1 fight which he won.. whilst with everyone else we've seen them win and lose.


We have also seen Mace fight his apprentice Depa who herself is very strong and the only other person that can rival Mace with
Vapaad(which Vapaad itself makes Mace even more dangerous vs darksiders such as dooku) and can definitely rival Anakin. Then we see him fight Kar Vastor who is arguably the strongest or one of the strongest non-jedi or sith to have ever appeared in star wars. Mace has also beaten Sora Bulq and Ventress to in single combat. Not to mention what he does in the cw cartoons.


From I have heard here George Lucas has said"You have to be a Mace or Yoda to contend with Sidious) Mace did block Sidious's lightning and he would win more vs Sidious than your giving him credit for.


Dooku is in a tier entirely below the big 3 of the PT era. Dooku vs Yoda twice and retreated both times the latter of the two took place on the planet Vjun where he was empowered by the planet's rich dark side and he was intending to kill Yoda while Yoda still did not want to kill Dooku.


Mace takes this battle due to his skills in Vapaad and shatterpoint.

Sweersa please dnt go to Supershadow again... its all lies!!!

Elite Hunter i agree Mace is one of the very few who can contend with Sidious, but it wuld have to be in a lightsaber duel, which Sidious can also take.

Lucas has also said Mace is no.2 to Yoda... This is due to Yoda able to rival Mace in a lightsaber battle but best him with force abilities. Dooku was almost Yodas match in both areas.

I know he retreated from Yoda, but like i sed ALMOST a match, which means Dooku wuld most likely not win. He culdnt fight Yoda forever since Yoda had other clone troopers and jedi coming to help. The same as when Yoda ran form sidioud because Yoda culdnt fight him forever, as he had his own Empire! lol!

Mace deflected some of the Emporers Lightning with his lightsaber, but not all of it, some of it was hitting Mace, and Mace was shouting in pain. Also Sidious doesnt even like using lightsabers... he was forced into a lightsaber duel with Mace because the fight started with 4 Jedis all with their Lightsabers Ignited!! so he had to engage them in a lightsaber battle to quickly take out the other 3, and then see what happens with Mace. Using his Force Powers to take out all 4 of them defineltely would not have worked!

Also Elite Hunter Iv just been going from the movies.. I dnt take every single novel and comic written as cannon... A lot of it has been taken as cannon and incorporated into the movies, but a lot has also blatantly contradicted the movies as the prequels were still being made. Lots of different writers write the comics and novels, all of whom are fans in thier own right and have their own favorite characters.

However if we are going by the EU, Dooku and Yoda, are sed to be the only ones who used to best Mace in lightsaber combat. I know this was before Mace completed Vaapad, but Dooku also got more powerful when he turned to the DarkSide.

Also Vaapad is the most lethal lightsaber style but does not automatically, equal victory. If you are The Master of any of forms 2-5, and are powerful enough, then that would be a definet challenge for Mace, as those forms have been fully developed over centuries, whilst Mace is just kinda figuring out Vaapad himself, and is nowhere near as developed as the other forms.

Dooku uses form 2 which is sed to be the best for blade to blade combat.. And Dooku has fully mastered this form and perfected it. Though I wuld still admit that Mace has the advantage with Vaapad in a balde fight, but Dookus extra use of and expertise with the Force could and should easily even the odds in my opinion.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Also Elite Hunter Iv just been going from the movies.. I dnt take every single novel and comic written as cannon... A lot of it has been taken as cannon and incorporated into the movies, but a lot has also blatantly contradicted the movies as the prequels were still being made. Lots of different writers write the comics and novels, all of whom are fans in thier own right and have their own favorite characters.

However if we are going by the EU, Dooku and Yoda, are sed to be the only ones who used to best Mace in lightsaber combat. I know this was before Mace completed Vaapad, but Dooku also got more powerful when he turned to the DarkSide.

Also Vaapad is the most lethal lightsaber style but does not automatically, equal victory. If you are The Master of any of forms 2-5, and are powerful enough, then that would be a definet challenge for Mace, as those forms have been fully developed over centuries, whilst Mace is just kinda figuring out Vaapad himself, and is nowhere near as developed as the other forms.

Dooku uses form 2 which is sed to be the best for blade to blade combat.. And Dooku has fully mastered this form and perfected it. Though I wuld still admit that Mace has the advantage with Vaapad in a balde fight, but Dookus extra use of and expertise with the Force could and should easily even the odds in my opinion. Even if Dooku became more powerful after turning to the Dark Side, Mace's newfound ability with Vapaad is what will defeat him, as Vapaad does that whole crazy thing about turning the opponent's own darkness, as well as the user's inner darkness, AGAINST the opponent. Dooku's worse for the wear in that case.

Originally posted by sweersa
www.supershadow.com

SS, who would win in a fight: Yoda or Mace Windu (SuperShadow: A pure light saber duel would go in Windu's favor. A battle of only Force powers would end with Yoda the victor.) or Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi (SuperShadow: Obi-Wan is the luckiest Jedi of all time. He can't be defeated unless he sacrifices himself for the greater good.) or Yoda and Kenobi? (SuperShadow: Obi-Wan for the same reasons as against Windu.)

Our questions have been answered!

please don't tell me you didn't just do supershadow.com as a source... please.... c'mon man, what is this forum coming too?

No versus here.

Closed.