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Who takes this no holds barred fight.

Ryu, but there's another one already.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Ryu, but there's another one already.

Thats lordxalba.

Pointless bump for pointless results.

And people have problems when I bump old threads?disgust


Ryu destroys Liu Kang, Johnny Cage, and Sonya at once.

This has been done before as said before.

And Liu Kang wins by the way.

Ryu steam rolls unless Liu can turn into a dragon. If so, then I don't know.

Liu Lame loses badly.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
This has been done before as said before.

And Liu Kang wins by the way.

Stop fooling yourself. Ryu is better than him in every way.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Stop fooling yourself. Ryu is better than him in every way.

Depends on how you look at things, that is. However, saying Ryu is better than him in "every way"? You must be fooling yourself.

This is spite. Ryu stomps Liu Lame with ease. 'Sides, liu's only feat is turning into a dragon, which isn't a problem for most SFers.

Ryu vs Motaro imo would be a better fight.

This is definitely not spite.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Depends on how you look at things, that is. However, saying Ryu is better than him in "every way"? You must be fooling yourself.

He is better than Liu Lame in every way. Ryu is a bullet-timer, strong enough to lift a boulder, and can go Satsui no Hadou to make himself more powerful (and bullet proof). His Shoryuken knocked down a 7 footer and his Hadouken stopped a waterfall from flowing for a seconds, his Shinku Hadouken can make raging fires disappear instantly, and other feats.

Liu Kang can rip off body parts? Right, and Ryu can't? Liu can become a dragon? Too bad it's only effective when the opponent is near death otherwise, it would get its ass kicked.

Bro smash can't be serious. Just look at cutscene footage and compare, simple as that.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
He is better than Liu Lame in every way. Ryu is a bullet-timer, strong enough to lift a boulder, and can go Satsui no Hadou to make himself more powerful (and bullet proof). His Shoryuken knocked down a 7 footer and his Hadouken stopped a waterfall from flowing for a seconds, his Shinku Hadouken can make raging fires disappear instantly, and other feats.

Liu Kang can rip off body parts? Right, and Ryu can't? Liu can become a dragon? Too bad it's only effective when the opponent is near death otherwise, it would get its ass kicked.

That's why I said it depends on how you look at things. If you to look at all those things you just said, then of course it seems like Ryu wins.

However, there's also another way to look at things. Ryu lacks the impressive victories he has in his career and there are really nothing compared to Liu Kang's. Liu has beaten and knocked out Goro (an 8 footer who's been the previous champ for 500 years), Shang Tsung, (who knows numerous different fighting styles and was the previous champ before Goro), Shao Kahn (plenty of years of fighting experience and has strength that also grows as he merges each realm) and Shinnok (though he was weaker than he was before).

Ryu, on the otherhand, cheapshotted Sagat with a Shoryuken, fought against holding back Akuma, had Bison run away after a simple Shoryuken, beat his rival Ken (even though they were probably equal), and fought Hugo and unable to put him down with his strongest attack.

Liu Kang was killed easily. Shang Tsung doesn't appear to be that great when it comes to martial arts and was even beaten by a Shaolin monk before the 1st MK. Goro is a better physical fighter.

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Let's not forget that Shang Tsung was an old man in MK1 and was only threatening because of his sorcery (as seen in the MK1 boss fight and Shaolin Monks intro)
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The Deception intro shows how weak Shang Tsung is. He's a pushover to Rayden and is easily beaten by Quan Chi.

Liu Kang defeating Shao Kahn is PIS.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Liu Kang was killed easily. Shang Tsung doesn't appear to be that great when it comes to martial arts and was even beaten by a Shaolin monk before the 1st MK. Goro is a better physical fighter.
Losing to Great Kung Lao ain't no shame, as he's one of the best fighters in the series (same with Raiden). Regardless, Tsung won several Mortal Kombat tournaments before that happened and as Bro SMASH pointed out, knows numerous different fighting styles. He wouldn't of gotten as far as he did if sorcery was his only strong suit. You're right though about Goro being a better physical fighter.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Let's not forget that Shang Tsung was an old man in MK1 and was only threatening because of his sorcery (as seen in the MK1 boss fight and Shaolin Monks intro)
... and he got his youth and strength back afterward.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
The Deception intro shows how weak Shang Tsung is. He's a pushover to Rayden and is easily beaten by Quan Chi.
Likewise, he easily beats Quan Chi back in the Armageddon intro (as well as Shujinko and others), and displayed good reacting timing in dodging Shao Khan's hammer & counter-attacking.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Liu Kang defeating Shao Kahn is PIS.
That it was. Same with him beating Shinnok.

Liu Kang wins.

Lemme guess, because Liu Kang is repeatedly shown to beat his opponents?

Ryu does that too. Hell, he's one-shotted a very powerful version of Bison.

PIS and all, but then again, some of Liu's more notable victories are PIS as well.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Lemme guess, because Liu Kang is repeatedly shown to beat his opponents?

Ryu does that too. Hell, he's one-shotted a very powerful version of Bison.

PIS and all, but then again, some of Liu's more notable victories are PIS as well. How are his victories pis when he's been shown consistently as a great warrior and the champion of mk?

Ryu's consistently shown as a great warrior and a champion of SF, yet his victories over the more powerful fighters are also PIS.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Losing to Great Kung Lao ain't no shame, as he's one of the best fighters in the series (same with Raiden).

It turns out Kung Lao has no weakness in his attacks and his blows are as fast as the wind. Just learned about it now.



Shang Tsung was only a reigning MK champion when Shao Kahn taught him the black arts. He had to cheat in the previous MK tournament (at the time) to even get far.



I don't know if I can consider it canon. Unlike the intros of Deadly Alliance and Deception, Armageddon's has little storyline. Also, it makes little sense.

Why is Scorpion running on the side of Quan Chi, who murdered his family and clan?

Why is Darrius and Dairou on the side of evil?

Why did Johnny Cage push Sonya off the pyramid?

How did all those characters form into groups of good and evil?

Then again, the whole MK storyline turned into complete shit when the game was released

Originally posted by quanchi112
How are his victories pis when he's been shown consistently as a great warrior and the champion of mk?

Shao Kahn has centuries of military and fighting experience and was the one who taught Shang Tsung his magic. Plus, he has superstrength and considerable speed. Liu Kand defeating him by himself is PIS as he's just a great martial artist who is around his late 20s.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Shang Tsung was only a reigning MK champion when Shao Kahn taught him the black arts. He had to cheat in the previous MK tournament (at the time) to even get far.
How did he cheat?

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
I don't know if I can consider it canon. Unlike the intros of Deadly Alliance and Deception, Armageddon's has little storyline. Also, it makes little sense.

Why is Scorpion running on the side of Quan Chi, who murdered his family and clan?

Why is Darrius and Dairou on the side of evil?

Why did Johnny Cage push Sonya off the pyramid?

How did all those characters form into groups of good and evil?

Then again, the whole MK storyline turned into complete shit when the game was released
True, but even so, hardly see that as a reason to dismiss Tsung's feats there. At least he made use of his classic morphing ability (unlike in the Deception intro), by turning into Ermac and throwing Quan Chi off the pyramid with telekinesis, and Liu could only beat him by holding him down with his chains.

Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
It turns out Kung Lao has no weakness in his attacks and his blows are as fast as the wind. Just learned about it now.



Shang Tsung was only a reigning MK champion when Shao Kahn taught him the black arts. He had to cheat in the previous MK tournament (at the time) to even get far.



I don't know if I can consider it canon. Unlike the intros of Deadly Alliance and Deception, Armageddon's has little storyline. Also, it makes little sense.

Why is Scorpion running on the side of Quan Chi, who murdered his family and clan?

Why is Darrius and Dairou on the side of evil?

Why did Johnny Cage push Sonya off the pyramid?

How did all those characters form into groups of good and evil?

Then again, the whole MK storyline turned into complete shit when the game was released



Shao Kahn has centuries of military and fighting experience and was the one who taught Shang Tsung his magic. Plus, he has superstrength and considerable speed. Liu Kand defeating him by himself is PIS as he's just a great martial artist who is around his late 20s. So him winning all the tournaments in a one on one fight doesn't count because you think it doesn't make sense. Yeah, you can't just pick and choose what you accept and that you don't that itself is bias.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
How did he cheat?

Apparently, Tsung cheated in a MK match, and then he was sentenced to death by the judges, as MK was still sacred at the time. Shao Kahn saved him from the execution, in return for Tsung's allegiance & servitude.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
True, but even so, hardly see that as a reason to dismiss Tsung's feats there. At least he made use of his classic morphing ability (unlike in the Deception intro), by turning into Ermac and throwing Quan Chi off the pyramid with telekinesis, and Liu could only beat him by holding him down with his chains.

I dunno, he does have a point. That intro was really messed up.
While IMO, Shang Tsung probably did beat Quan Chi during the tournament, it's hard to say if that particular intro is canon.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Apparently, Tsung cheated in a MK match, and then he was sentenced to death by the judges, as MK was still sacred at the time. Shao Kahn saved him from the execution, in return for Tsung's allegiance & servitude.



I dunno, he does have a point. That intro was really messed up.
While IMO, Shang Tsung probably did beat Quan Chi during the tournament, it's hard to say if that particular intro is canon. That was a melee where everyone was dogpiling each other trying to rush up the pyramid. Quanchi beat Shang Tsung down in deception when the two squared off against each other in one on one proving himself to be his superior.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Apparently, Tsung cheated in a MK match, and then he was sentenced to death by the judges, as MK was still sacred at the time. Shao Kahn saved him from the execution, in return for Tsung's allegiance & servitude.
Where/when in the series was this mentioned?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I dunno, he does have a point. That intro was really messed up.
While IMO, Shang Tsung probably did beat Quan Chi during the tournament, it's hard to say if that particular intro is canon.
I'm pretty sure the Armageddon intro occurred during the time Taven was fighting Daegon, and then Blaze, because Blaze talked about how all the kombatants would fight/betray each other for the "prize". Regardless, I can agree that a lot of the game's story made little sense. If everyone was going after Blaze at the top of the pyramid in the intro, you'd think Onaga would just fly up there from the start or somethin'.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That was a melee where everyone was dogpiling each other trying to rush up the pyramid. Quanchi beat Shang Tsung down in deception when the two squared off against each other in one on one proving himself to be his superior.
It looked like Shang was holding back in the Deception intro though because he didn't use his morphing abilities, fire projectiles, and what not against Quan Chi like he did in the Armageddon one, where he went all-out with his powers against everyone.

edit: And Quan Chi even got beat by Jax somewhere around the beginning if I recall right.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Where/when in the series was this mentioned?


I'm pretty sure the Armageddon intro occurred during the time Taven was fighting Daegon, and then Blaze, because Blaze talked about how all the kombatants would fight/betray each other for the "prize". Regardless, I can agree that a lot of the game's story made little sense. If everyone was going after Blaze at the top of the pyramid in the intro, you'd think Onaga would just fly up there from the start or somethin'.


It looked like Shang was holding back in the Deception intro though because he didn't use his morphing abilities, fire projectiles, and what not against Quan Chi like he did in the Armageddon one, where he went all-out with his powers against everyone.

edit: And Quan Chi even got beat by Jax somewhere around the beginning if I recall right.

Read it on the MK wiki shrug
Notice the word "apparently" ?
Maybe it was in one of those comics or on an official website or something.

Agreed. Or maybe Onaga had no need for Blaze's power and was only in it for teh glory 313?

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Where/when in the series was this mentioned?


I'm pretty sure the Armageddon intro occurred during the time Taven was fighting Daegon, and then Blaze, because Blaze talked about how all the kombatants would fight/betray each other for the "prize". Regardless, I can agree that a lot of the game's story made little sense. If everyone was going after Blaze at the top of the pyramid in the intro, you'd think Onaga would just fly up there from the start or somethin'.


It looked like Shang was holding back in the Deception intro though because he didn't use his morphing abilities, fire projectiles, and what not against Quan Chi like he did in the Armageddon one, where he went all-out with his powers against everyone.

edit: And Quan Chi even got beat by Jax somewhere around the beginning if I recall right. No, he wasn't holding back he was simply beaten. Just because he doesn't use his morphing abilities that doesn't mean he is holding back. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Shang caught him off guard while he was ermac iirc. He didn't defeated him either he simply knocked him off. Quan chi handily defeated him one on one.

Jax might have gotten in a move or two but was dealt with by Shao Kahn. Most of these characters weren't beaten anyways they were just landing shots against each other.


Quanchi is listed by the creators as the greatest sorcerer in mk. We have seen him crush Shang in battle to boot. Quanchi>Shang Tsung.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
edit: And Quan Chi even got beat by Jax somewhere around the beginning if I recall right.

Quan Chi's gotten his ass handed to him more times than that. Elder Sub-Zero beat him. He was running scared from Scorpion as well.

His ending in Armageddon was pretty lulzy too. Turned into the very medallion he keeps. Priceless drylaugh

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Read it on the MK wiki shrug
Notice the word "apparently" ?
Maybe it was in one of those comics or on an official website or something.

Agreed. Or maybe Onaga had no need for Blaze's power and was only in it for teh glory 313?
Yeah, it might be in one of the comics.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he wasn't holding back he was simply beaten. Just because he doesn't use his morphing abilities that doesn't mean he is holding back. Where do you come up with this stuff?
He used his morphing ability against Liu Kang and others in the past when backed into a corner. Why would he not do the same against Quan Chi, when it's one of his most powerful abilities? (aside from stealing souls) That fight was nonsensical.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Shang caught him off guard while he was ermac iirc.
'k, but he didn't catch Liu Kang off guard, and Shang still gave him trouble. The only way Liu was able to even do anything to him was by holding him down with his zombie chains, causing him to age rapidly. Also dodged Shao Khan's hammer.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't defeated him either he simply knocked him off.
That's close enough to being defeated, as he didn't make a comeback after being knocked off.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Quanchi is listed by the creators as the greatest sorcerer in mk.
Proof? Doubt his sorcerer abilities are better than Shinnok's.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Quan Chi's gotten his ass handed to him more times than that. Elder Sub-Zero beat him. He was running scared from Scorpion as well.

His ending in Armageddon was pretty lulzy too. Turned into the very medallion he keeps. Priceless drylaugh
Oh yeah, I remember that. To be fair though, he had a big disadvantage against Scorpion since they were in the Netherrealm.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Oh yeah, I remember that. To be fair though, he had a big disadvantage against Scorpion since they were in the Netherrealm.

True, but it's still lulzy nonetheless.
It's weird though. Quan Chi being said to be the strongest sorcerer in the Nether-realm, yet running scared from Scorpion in the Nether-realm because he was at a disadvantage. Was that ever explained?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So him winning all the tournaments in a one on one fight doesn't count because you think it doesn't make sense. Yeah, you can't just pick and choose what you accept and that you don't that itself is bias.

I said it's PIS. PIS is when a stronger character loses because of plot reasons.

Sephiroth not killing CLoud in Advent Children is PIS.

Wesker not killing Sheva and Chris during their fight is PIS.

The party escaping Exdeath's Void is PIS.

Ganondorf not killing Link in Wind Waker is PIS.

Wilhelm not getting Shion's pendant by himself and having his plans fail is PIS.

Goku defeating Broli is PIS.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Quan Chi's gotten his ass handed to him more times than that. Elder Sub-Zero beat him. He was running scared from Scorpion as well.

His ending in Armageddon was pretty lulzy too. Turned into the very medallion he keeps. Priceless drylaugh So? Quanchi is more formidable than Sub Zero anyways and in hell Quanchi couldn't hurt him so that had a lot to do with it. Scorpion's powers were at their greatest where Quanchi's weren't. Iirc he killed Scorpion in hell once or twice he just kept coming back.


So you want to take cheapshots at his ending which isn't canon? LULz. Quanchi broke Shang Tsung which is canon. He also along with Shang defeated everyone in their path and this was the only game where the bad guys triumphed all due to Quanchi.


Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah, it might be in one of the comics.


He used his morphing ability against Liu Kang and others in the past when backed into a corner. Why would he not do the same against Quan Chi, when it's one of his most powerful abilities? (aside from stealing souls) That fight was nonsensical.


'k, but he didn't catch Liu Kang off guard, and Shang still gave him trouble. The only way Liu was able to even do anything to him was by holding him down with his zombie chains, causing him to age rapidly. Also dodged Shao Khan's hammer.


That's close enough to being defeated, as he didn't make a comeback after being knocked off.


Proof? Doubt his sorcerer abilities are better than Shinnok's.


Oh yeah, I remember that. To be fair though, he had a big disadvantage against Scorpion since they were in the Netherrealm. He used his morphing ability to get the jump on Liu Kang and got crushed when he fought as Shang Tsung. He also fought as Shang Tsung against Raiden along with Quanchi. The point is just because he doesn't morph this doesn't mean he isn't fighting at his most effective.

How was that fight nonsensical? It's 'canon either way so who cares. Shang's fought as himself before and been embarrassed by Liu Kang and fought as himself against Quanchi and was beaten.

Liu was in zombie mode and he still didn't defeat him. Liu caught him at the end before he could reach the top. Knocking someone down a pyramid isn't beating them it's taking advantage of the situation. When they faced off against one another in a fight Quanchi clearly won.

I believe vogel says it on quanchi's mk card. Can't recall which game this was included in but the creator backed this.


Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
True, but it's still lulzy nonetheless.
It's weird though. Quan Chi being said to be the strongest sorcerer in the Nether-realm, yet running scared from Scorpion in the Nether-realm because he was at a disadvantage. Was that ever explained? They explained this but it's no surprise you are clueless when it comes to what happens in the games.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So? Quanchi is more formidable than Sub Zero anyways and in hell Quanchi couldn't hurt him so that had a lot to do with it. Scorpion's powers were at their greatest where Quanchi's weren't. Iirc he killed Scorpion in hell once or twice he just kept coming back.

So? Quan Chi still got his ass handed to him by Sub-Zero, and Quan Chi's never beaten Sub-Zero.
Oh, so suddenly now that your character is on the wrong end of things, circumstances matter? Haha.
Quan Chi was still scared of Scorpion. End of story.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you want to take cheapshots at his ending which isn't canon? LULz. Quanchi broke Shang Tsung which is canon. He also along with Shang defeated everyone in their path and this was the only game where the bad guys triumphed all due to Quanchi.

I was just joking around with R_P . Not my fault if you consider every single joke against your favourites as a cheap-shot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They explained this but it's no surprise you are clueless when it comes to what happens in the games.

*spring trap card*
Now you know how I feel when I debate with you and you have no idea what you are talking about...which is pretty much all the time doped

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
So? Quan Chi still got his ass handed to him by Sub-Zero, and Quan Chi's never beaten Sub-Zero.
Oh, so suddenly now that your character is on the wrong end of things, circumstances matter? Haha.
Quan Chi was still scared of Scorpion. End of story.



I was just joking around with R_P . Not my fault if you consider every single joke against your favourites as a cheap-shot.



*spring trap card*
Now you know how I feel when I debate with you and you have no idea what you are talking about...which is pretty much all the time doped That Sub Zero died, right? Quanchi has won and then defeated Shang his partner while Sub has been long gone.

We were talking about Shang Tsung not Sub Zero anyways. Of course you want to switch the subject because I was right. Quanchi couldn't kill Scorpion in there so why wouldn't he fear him there? Seriously, why not?

It's in your nature to moan when you are losing a debate.

No, I am always right whereas you haven't been right one time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That Sub Zero died, right? Quanchi has won and then defeated Shang his partner while Sub has been long gone.

We were talking about Shang Tsung not Sub Zero anyways. Of course you want to switch the subject because I was right. Quanchi couldn't kill Scorpion in there so why wouldn't he fear him there? Seriously, why not?

It's in your nature to moan when you are losing a debate.

No, I am always right whereas you haven't been right one time.

Yeah, Older Sub-Zero died. Was Quan Chi the one who killed him though? Nahh, Quan Chi never killed him, or beat him in a fight for that matter. Instead, Older Sub-Zero pwned Quan Chi. Cry about it all you want, it won't change anything.

No, we were talking about Ryu vs. Liu Kang. Shang Tsung came up, which progressed to Quan Chi vs. Shang Tsung, and finally we were discussing Quan Chi, or rather, making fun of him; as we typically do to some MK characters.
It was never Shang Tsung. Shouldn't even be Shang Tsung, when the thread concerns Liu Kang & Ryu.

Try again though, I doubt you'll pick it up the second time, but hey, there's an old saying "3rd time's the charm." Though in your case, it'll probably be "50th time's the charm."
Besides, I don't really care much for Shang Tsung, but I do recognize when a loss was PIS, unlike yourself.

Lulz? I moan when I'm losing a debate? I've debated against others including R_P, and I never cried when they would pwn me.
You on the other hand, make up stuff that is beyond crap. You then try to switch your point around when someone refutes that craptacular point, despite the new one being almost as useless as the old one.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yeah, Older Sub-Zero died. Was Quan Chi the one who killed him though? Nahh, Quan Chi never killed him, or beat him in a fight for that matter. Instead, Older Sub-Zero pwned Quan Chi. Cry about it all you want, it won't change anything.

No, we were talking about Ryu vs. Liu Kang. Shang Tsung came up, which progressed to Quan Chi vs. Shang Tsung, and finally we were discussing Quan Chi, or rather, making fun of him; as we typically do to some MK characters.
It was never Shang Tsung. Shouldn't even be Shang Tsung, when the thread concerns Liu Kang & Ryu.

Try again though, I doubt you'll pick it up the second time, but hey, there's an old saying "3rd time's the charm." Though in your case, it'll probably be "50th time's the charm."
Besides, I don't really care much for Shang Tsung, but I do recognize when a loss was PIS, unlike yourself.

Lulz? I moan when I'm losing a debate? I've debated against others including R_P, and I never cried when they would pwn me.
You on the other hand, make up stuff that is beyond crap. You then try to switch your point around when someone refutes that craptacular point, despite the new one being almost as useless as the old one. It's not relevant to Quan vs. Shang so who cares. Quan lived on while Sub died.

So you agree Quan is greater than Shang? I could care less what fictional characters you mock to make yourself feel better.

No, you dismiss what you don't like. It's called picking and choosing the way of the bias.

I guess you are used to losing debates on here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So? Quanchi is more formidable than Sub Zero anyways
His defeat at the hands of Subzero says otherwise.

1:03 - 2:50

DlsEubxbdIg

Granted, Sareena made the finishing blow as Subzero was winning.
Quan Chi himself later admits in Scorpion's MK4 ending that in order to defeat his nemesis Subzero, he needed the power of a specter. Elder Subzero died at the hands of Scorpion, but that doesn't make Quan himself more formidable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
and in hell Quanchi couldn't hurt him so that had a lot to do with it.
Netherrealm = hell in the MK universe.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Iirc he killed Scorpion in hell once or twice he just kept coming back.
This was never stated in the games or anywhere. Either way, in the end, he needed Moloch and Drahmin to get away from Scorpion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He used his morphing ability to get the jump on Liu Kang and got crushed when he fought as Shang Tsung. He also fought as Shang Tsung against Raiden along with Quanchi. The point is just because he doesn't morph this doesn't mean he isn't fighting at his most effective.

How was that fight nonsensical? It's 'canon either way so who cares. Shang's fought as himself before and been embarrassed by Liu Kang and fought as himself against Quanchi and was beaten.

Liu was in zombie mode and he still didn't defeat him. Liu caught him at the end before he could reach the top. Knocking someone down a pyramid isn't beating them it's taking advantage of the situation. When they faced off against one another in a fight Quanchi clearly won.

I believe vogel says it on quanchi's mk card. Can't recall which game this was included in but the creator backed this.
Morphing into other characters allows Tsung to use their special moves in addition to his own, thus fighting more effectively.

How was it not nonsensical? All Quan Chi did basically was choke Shang Tsung, and he was declared beaten. Then Tsung got back up when Quan started attacking Onaga as if he never got beat. That doesn't really spell defeated.

Liu didn't land a single punch or kick on Tsung in the MKA intro, either.

Vogel isn't the creator; Ed Boon is. And he said it in a rather opinionated way, not a factual way.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
His defeat at the hands of Subzero says otherwise.

1:03 - 2:50

DlsEubxbdIg

Granted, Sareena made the finishing blow as Subzero was winning.
Quan Chi himself later admits in Scorpion's MK4 ending that in order to defeat his nemesis Subzero, he needed the power of a specter. Elder Subzero died at the hands of Scorpion, but that doesn't make Quan himself more formidable.


Netherrealm = hell in the MK universe.


This was never stated in the games or anywhere. Either way, in the end, he needed Moloch and Drahmin to get away from Scorpion.


Morphing into other characters allows Tsung to use their special moves in addition to his own, thus fighting more effectively.

How was it not nonsensical? All Quan Chi did basically was choke Shang Tsung, and he was declared beaten. Then Tsung got back up when Quan started attacking Onaga as if he never got beat. That doesn't really spell defeated.

Liu didn't land a single punch or kick on Tsung in the MKA intro, either.

Vogel isn't the creator; Ed Boon is. And he said it in a rather opinionated way, not a factual way. He needed help to get rid of him so it's not a feat shared By sub alone. Nice job destroying your case.

Yes, Quan is much more formidable and his actions/feats say as much. He evaded and defeated Scorpion but due to him not being able to stay dead even avoided being defeated in hell. Sub needed help to defeat Quan once and died shortly thereafter which leads me to believe without help can't do so. Quan getting someone else to do things for him also is in character as he pulls strings and has others do his work for him. Think.

I know hence I use the terms interchangeably. Try and keep up.


I believe it's stated in the gameplay mode in deadly alliance where you find he defeated scorpion into a pit or something yet he kept coming back.

He needed help because Scorpion is stronger there and kept coming for him after he was defeated.

No, fighting as other characters doesn't mean he fights more effectively it means he is more versatile. Effectiveness and versatility are two different things.

Quanchi defeated him and the narration even said so. He later recovered which only meant he didn't kill him but instead soundly defeated him. I am right yet again and you want to dismiss what you don't like making you biased yet again.


Liu prevented him from reaching his destination and neither was defeated so in the end Shang failed yet again.


Vogel works on the games so now his opinion doesn't count? Boon never disagreed so this is another case of you dismissing what you don't like. I have facts and the creators backing me up while you don't.

Quanchi defeated Shang Tsung in combat.

Ryu has supers and ultras which he can use during the fight in addition to his regular moveset

Liu Kang just has his regular moveset, and fatalities, friendships, brutalities, etc. However fatatlities (etc) can only be done if your opponent has been KO'ed.

Supers and Ultras give Ryu the edge

This has been done to death already...

Ryu Beats Liu Kang /thread

Please don't derail the thread boys.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He needed help to get rid of him so it's not a feat shared By sub alone. Nice job destroying your case.

Yes, Quan is much more formidable and his actions/feats say as much. He evaded and defeated Scorpion but due to him not being able to stay dead even avoided being defeated in hell. Sub needed help to defeat Quan once and died shortly thereafter which leads me to believe without help can't do so. Quan getting someone else to do things for him also is in character as he pulls strings and has others do his work for him. Think.

I know hence I use the terms interchangeably. Try and keep up.


I believe it's stated in the gameplay mode in deadly alliance where you find he defeated scorpion into a pit or something yet he kept coming back.

He needed help because Scorpion is stronger there and kept coming for him after he was defeated.

No, fighting as other characters doesn't mean he fights more effectively it means he is more versatile. Effectiveness and versatility are two different things.

Quanchi defeated him and the narration even said so. He later recovered which only meant he didn't kill him but instead soundly defeated him. I am right yet again and you want to dismiss what you don't like making you biased yet again.


Liu prevented him from reaching his destination and neither was defeated so in the end Shang failed yet again.


Vogel works on the games so now his opinion doesn't count? Boon never disagreed so this is another case of you dismissing what you don't like. I have facts and the creators backing me up while you don't.

Quanchi defeated Shang Tsung in combat.
He didn't need help. He just happened to get it anyway as he was already winning when Quan Chi had very low health. Futhermore, Quan has no defense against Elder Subzero's Polar Blast which literally freezes everything on-screen, and Subzero also survived against Shinnok when he had his amulet after Quan was defeated. Something Quan Chi could only dream of doing.
True. Quan tends to get someone else to do things and his work for him because he can't do it himself, like defeating Elder Subzero.

He was able to defend himself some from Scorpion, but he never defeated him; Just keep running from him.

So if Tsung morphed into something like Goro like he's been shown to do in MK1, he wouldn't fight the least bit more effectively against others?

Vogel isn't a creator; Simply an art designer on the games. Difference. If I were an art designer on one of the games, would that automatically make my opinion on a character more valid?
Boon didn't disagree, but he never exactly gave any input on Quan Chi & Shang Tsung either, so it's irrelevant.

Dismissing what I don't like? I see you doing the same with Subzero & Quan Chi's fight, so that makes you the hypocrite.

Originally posted by I_Cheat_U_LOSE
Ryu has supers and ultras which he can use during the fight in addition to his regular moveset

Liu Kang just has his regular moveset, and fatalities, friendships, brutalities, etc. However fatatlities (etc) can only be done if your opponent has been KO'ed.

Supers and Ultras give Ryu the edge
Agreed.

Wow the Kang supporters on page 1 really are stupid.

Warden, why don't you actually try to make some arguments instead of throwing insults? Seriously, you really never made a single point in this discussions.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
He didn't need help. He just happened to get it anyway as he was already winning when Quan Chi had very low health. Futhermore, Quan has no defense against Elder Subzero's Polar Blast which literally freezes everything on-screen, and Subzero also survived against Shinnok when he had his amulet after Quan was defeated. Something Quan Chi could only dream of doing.
True. Quan tends to get someone else to do things and his work for him because he can't do it himself, like defeating Elder Subzero.

He was able to defend himself some from Scorpion, but he never defeated him; Just keep running from him.

So if Tsung morphed into something like Goro like he's been shown to do in MK1, he wouldn't fight the least bit more effectively against others?

Vogel isn't a creator; Simply an art designer on the games. Difference. If I were an art designer on one of the games, would that automatically make my opinion on a character more valid?
Boon didn't disagree, but he never exactly gave any input on Quan Chi & Shang Tsung either, so it's irrelevant.

Dismissing what I don't like? I see you doing the same with Subzero & Quan Chi's fight, so that makes you the hypocrite.


Agreed. That's a game play mechanic while we see Quanchi match a sub zero later and he can block the ice just like any other character can do so.

Quanchi effectively took him out whereas Sub Zero can only dream of surviving while Quanchi literally right up the ladder in deadly allliance and won it all.

Quan has others to these menial tasks whereas Sub died while Quan survived.


He defeated him he just came right back.

No, I don't think so. Goro wasn't the last guy either it was Shang Tsung. Shang lost one on one against Quan. he was broken and defeated. Quan's a better sorcerer and more devious than Shang can ever hope to be.

He's not an art designer alone either. It's listed he has worked on story/animations in the actual game where he chimes in here with Quan's card. It's canon he's a greater sorcerer than Shang and he also is a better fighter as he proved it.

Boon has a team work with him to set up his ideas. he wouldn't let someone who helps him with the story state something in the game that isn't true. Like always I am right and you just try to distance yourself from the facts.

Those two fighting in a game where Sub has to win has nothing to do with Quan chi and Shang Tsung.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's a game play mechanic while we see Quanchi match a sub zero later and he can block the ice just like any other character can do so.

Quanchi effectively took him out whereas Sub Zero can only dream of surviving while Quanchi literally right up the ladder in deadly allliance and won it all.

Quan has others to these menial tasks whereas Sub died while Quan survived.


He defeated him he just came right back.

No, I don't think so. Goro wasn't the last guy either it was Shang Tsung. Shang lost one on one against Quan. he was broken and defeated. Quan's a better sorcerer and more devious than Shang can ever hope to be.

He's not an art designer alone either. It's listed he has worked on story/animations in the actual game where he chimes in here with Quan's card. It's canon he's a greater sorcerer than Shang and he also is a better fighter as he proved it.

Boon has a team work with him to set up his ideas. he wouldn't let someone who helps him with the story state something in the game that isn't true. Like always I am right and you just try to distance yourself from the facts.

Those two fighting in a game where Sub has to win has nothing to do with Quan chi and Shang Tsung.
The Subzero you're speaking of is the younger Subzero, whom is weaker than the older one that defeated Quan Chi and survived against his master Shinnok, and "blocking" the ice is a gameplay mechanic within itself.

Won it all? Didn't see Quan surviving the sacrificial blast Raiden made against Onaga. Elder Subzero dying doesn't matter since he came back as Noob Saibot anyway. Quan Chi stayed dead for awhile too all the way up until MK4, which was why he didn't appear at all in the first three games.

Menial task? Elder Subzero defeated the gods of Wind (Fujin), Earth, Water, & Fire, in addition to Quan Chi himself and taking the amulet back from Shinnok. Beating him is by no means a menial task, as proven by the fact Quan Chi couldn't do it himself without manipulating Scorpion.


Prove he defeated Scorpion in the Netherrealm.

Being the "last guy" doesn't matter. Goro's still a far better physical fighter than Shang Tsung (in his normal form) and Quan Chi, and if Tsung morphs into something like him as he can do in MK1, then Quan Chi is doomed. He hasn't a single feat that suggests he can beat the Shokan prince (or a sorcery mimic of him) one on one like Liu Kang does.
If Quan was all that greater of a sorcerer than Shang, he wouldn't of even needed Tsung to transfer lost warriors' souls into the mummified soldiers of the Dragon King in the first place.


You accuse me of dismissing what I don't like, when you're doing exactly that with elder Subzero's victory over Quan Chi (in addition to his other feats), so that still makes you a hypocrite.
Neither Quan Chi vs Elder Subzero or Quan Chi vs Shang Tsung have anything to do with Ryu vs Liu Kang anyhow.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It's not relevant to Quan vs. Shang so who cares. Quan lived on while Sub died.

So you agree Quan is greater than Shang? I could care less what fictional characters you mock to make yourself feel better.

No, you dismiss what you don't like. It's called picking and choosing the way of the bias.

I guess you are used to losing debates on here.

No, but it is relevant to the little Quan Chi discussion that we were having. Quan got owned by Sub-Zero in their duel and due to whooping Sub-Zero gave him, he was left so weak that someone like Sareena could knock him into his pit.
Also, Sub-Zero came back to life as Noob Saibot. Him being dead for a while doesn't give Quan Chi any sort of advantage, despite your desperate need to say otherwise. Even if it somehow gave Quan Chi an advantage in your world, Quan Chi was killed at the end of Deadly Alliance doped

Technically, mocking implies hatred. I don't hate Shang Tsung, and neither do I hate Quan Chi, rather, I'm simply indifferent to such characters. Instead, we are just making jokes at their expense, but you are much too sentimental about Quan Chi to realize this.

The sheer irony of your statement makes me laugh.
You dismiss everything you don't like, and you fanatically worship everything you do like. It's called picking and choosing the way of the bias.
BT of the days of old was the only one who could match your bias around these parts of KMC.
Your 'arguments' are nothing but crap, and you always fail to admit your favored character loses, despite your 'logic' always working against them.
Yet you accuse me of being biased? drylaugh

Says the person who has lost every single debate he has been in, yet hasn't even realized it.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
The Subzero you're speaking of is the younger Subzero, whom is weaker than the older one that defeated Quan Chi and survived against his master Shinnok, and "blocking" the ice is a gameplay mechanic within itself.

Won it all? Didn't see Quan surviving the sacrificial blast Raiden made against Onaga. Elder Subzero dying doesn't matter since he came back as Noob Saibot anyway. Quan Chi stayed dead for awhile too all the way up until MK4, which was why he didn't appear at all in the first three games.

Menial task? Elder Subzero defeated the gods of Wind (Fujin), Earth, Water, & Fire, in addition to Quan Chi himself and taking the amulet back from Shinnok. Beating him is by no means a menial task, as proven by the fact Quan Chi couldn't do it himself without manipulating Scorpion.


Prove he defeated Scorpion in the Netherrealm.

Being the "last guy" doesn't matter. Goro's still a far better physical fighter than Shang Tsung (in his normal form) and Quan Chi, and if Tsung morphs into something like him as he can do in MK1, then Quan Chi is doomed. He hasn't a single feat that suggests he can beat the Shokan prince (or a sorcery mimic of him) one on one like Liu Kang does.
If Quan was all that greater of a sorcerer than Shang, he wouldn't of even needed Tsung to transfer lost warriors' souls into the mummified soldiers of the Dragon King in the first place.


You accuse me of dismissing what I don't like, when you're doing exactly that with elder Subzero's victory over Quan Chi (in addition to his other feats), so that still makes you a hypocrite.
Neither Quan Chi vs Elder Subzero or Quan Chi vs Shang Tsung have anything to do with Ryu vs Liu Kang anyhow. How is he weaker than the the younger one? Based on what? Seriously he got killed pretty quickly.

Quan won before that blast. Did you mis he won and then Onaga stormed onto the scene with the kamidogu so they all had to team up to defeat him. The blast didn't kill Quanchi either. You disregard everything because you know I am correct and Quanchi is the only bad guy to ever win at the end of a mk.

It's what Quan chi does he manipulates. He eventually stole the amulet and tricked Shinnok himself so I fail to see how what Sub did is more badass since he was killed shortly thereafter by Scorpion.

I don't have any sound on my pc you'd have to play deadly alliance training mode to see where they reveal it.

Your logic is simply awful. Shang can change and morph at his leisure yet Liu Kang bested himself and Goro. Shang also is a very skilled fighter on his own and just because he doesn't morph into someone else this means nothing. He is obviously more skilled in his own body due to spending more time and training with his own body as opposed to someone else's. I mean come on here.

Quan is the greatest sorcerer and they needed each other. Quan was needed as well as Shang's talents fot the tasks of da at hand. Both were going to screw the other over when the time came and Quan won.


Like I said Vogel stated he is the greatest mk sorcerer in the game. It's fact. Quan is greater than Shang at sorcery and in combat.


Sub beat him once but didn't kill him and he had help. I dismissed nothing and this conversation had to do with Shang and Quan chi anyways mr. change the topic at all costs.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
No, but it is relevant to the little Quan Chi discussion that we were having. Quan got owned by Sub-Zero in their duel and due to whooping Sub-Zero gave him, he was left so weak that someone like Sareena could knock him into his pit.
Also, Sub-Zero came back to life as Noob Saibot. Him being dead for a while doesn't give Quan Chi any sort of advantage, despite your desperate need to say otherwise. Even if it somehow gave Quan Chi an advantage in your world, Quan Chi was killed at the end of Deadly Alliance doped

Technically, mocking implies hatred. I don't hate Shang Tsung, and neither do I hate Quan Chi, rather, I'm simply indifferent to such characters. Instead, we are just making jokes at their expense, but you are much too sentimental about Quan Chi to realize this.

The sheer irony of your statement makes me laugh.
You dismiss everything you don't like, and you fanatically worship everything you do like. It's called picking and choosing the way of the bias.
BT of the days of old was the only one who could match your bias around these parts of KMC.
Your 'arguments' are nothing but crap, and you always fail to admit your favored character loses, despite your 'logic' always working against them.
Yet you accuse me of being biased? drylaugh

Says the person who has lost every single debate he has been in, yet hasn't even realized it. Translation he needed help and was betrayed. That had something to do with it.

Quan chi wasn't killed. I think I'd like to see you prove it. K. He also prevailed over all competitors mind you including Shang who this discussion centered on from the very beginning.

You do care and in an attempt to get at me have resorted to mocking fictional characters.

Yes, you are biased whereas I accept the good and the bad I don't say that doesn't count like you have been known to do. You disregard canon material and call game creators liars in order to try and out debate me which you come up short every single time.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Translation he needed help and was betrayed. That had something to do with it.

Quan chi wasn't killed. I think I'd like to see you prove it. K. He also prevailed over all competitors mind you including Shang who this discussion centered on from the very beginning.

You do care and in an attempt to get at me have resorted to mocking fictional characters.

Yes, you are biased whereas I accept the good and the bad I don't say that doesn't count like you have been known to do. You disregard canon material and call game creators liars in order to try and out debate me which you come up short every single time.

Translation, you can't accept Quan Chi lost, and are resorting to statements such as "oooh but Sub-Zero died sometime in the future, so that means Quan Chi is better than him."

WUT? Raiden's sacrificial blast killed Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, and obviously Raiden himself, while failing to scratch Onaga in the least. Noticed the fact that he isn't a playable character in Deception?
No, the discussion was originally centered on Liu Kang vs. Ryu. Shang Tsung was brought up, and Quan Chi was mentioned. You then started this whole Quan Chi discussion because of that.

Keep thinking what you want to satisfy your infantile ego, as it won't change the fact that I don't really care much about Shang Tsung or Quan Chi.

No, you are biased, whereas I accept the good and the bad I don't say what doesn't count like you always do. You disregard everything that does not coincide with your self-righteous views, and you call all those who oppose you a liar, in order to try and satisfy your ego that has been severely trampled upon by the likes of myself and others.


Originally posted by quanchi112
Like I said Vogel stated he is the greatest mk sorcerer in the game. It's fact. Quan is greater than Shang at sorcery and in combat.


It was his personal opinion that Quan Chi was the best sorcerer in the MK series. Not the same as a statement from the MK team, despite your desperate need to say otherwise.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Translation, you can't accept Quan Chi lost, and are resorting to statements such as "oooh but Sub-Zero died sometime in the future, so that means Quan Chi is better than him."

WUT? Raiden's sacrificial blast killed Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, and obviously Raiden himself, while failing to scratch Onaga in the least. Noticed the fact that he isn't a playable character in Deception?
No, the discussion was originally centered on Liu Kang vs. Ryu. Shang Tsung was brought up, and Quan Chi was mentioned. You then started this whole Quan Chi discussion because of that.

Keep thinking what you want to satisfy your infantile ego, as it won't change the fact that I don't really care much about Shang Tsung or Quan Chi.

No, you are biased, whereas I accept the good and the bad I don't say what doesn't count like you always do. You disregard everything that does not coincide with your self-righteous views, and you call all those who oppose you a liar, in order to try and satisfy your ego that has been severely trampled upon by the likes of myself and others.




It was his personal opinion that Quan Chi was the best sorcerer in the MK series. Not the same as a statement from the MK team, despite your desperate need to say otherwise. He did lose but he was also betrayed. I look at everything involved and his greatest accomplishments were yet to come whereas Sub died.

He teleported out of there. How did he just show up in armageddon?
You derailed the thread because you're upset that Quan was far greater than Shang.

I thought this was many another insult but you already convinced me insults only have to do with someone's looks or family members so carry on, sport.

Give me a few examples of what is is I didn't accept?

No, he stated it like it was a fact. he helped create the games and was discussing the character and stated he is the greatest sorcerer in the mk universe. You want to cry and say it doesn't count because you don't like it.

The Mk team was responsible for putting up the bios of the characters for their cards for the game. I mean how naive are you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How is he weaker than the the younger one? Based on what? Seriously he got killed pretty quickly.

Quan won before that blast. Did you mis he won and then Onaga stormed onto the scene with the kamidogu so they all had to team up to defeat him. The blast didn't kill Quanchi either. You disregard everything because you know I am correct and Quanchi is the only bad guy to ever win at the end of a mk.

It's what Quan chi does he manipulates. He eventually stole the amulet and tricked Shinnok himself so I fail to see how what Sub did is more badass since he was killed shortly thereafter by Scorpion.

I don't have any sound on my pc you'd have to play deadly alliance training mode to see where they reveal it.

Your logic is simply awful. Shang can change and morph at his leisure yet Liu Kang bested himself and Goro. Shang also is a very skilled fighter on his own and just because he doesn't morph into someone else this means nothing. He is obviously more skilled in his own body due to spending more time and training with his own body as opposed to someone else's. I mean come on here.

Quan is the greatest sorcerer and they needed each other. Quan was needed as well as Shang's talents fot the tasks of da at hand. Both were going to screw the other over when the time came and Quan won.


Like I said Vogel stated he is the greatest mk sorcerer in the game. It's fact. Quan is greater than Shang at sorcery and in combat.


Sub beat him once but didn't kill him and he had help. I dismissed nothing and this conversation had to do with Shang and Quan chi anyways mr. change the topic at all costs.
No, I meant the younger Subzero is weaker than the older one. And that's based on feats, in addition to how elder Subzero made much better use of his freezing powers in his own game (MK Mythologies Subzero) than the younger one did in any game he was in. Not to mention, the older brother (as Noob Saibot) defeated the younger Subzero in Armageddon's Konquest mode.

Raiden's self-destruct clearly killed off everyone except Onaga, whom picks up the amulet off of Quan Chi's destroyed corpse. Tsung and Quan were then brought back later in Armageddon thanks to Shao Khan and Shinnok's magic.

Being killed by Scorpion doesn't overshadow his victory over the elemental gods, Quan Chi's personal assassins, Quan Chi himself, or Shinnok. He comes back as Noob Saibot anyway.

Very well. I suppose I can agree to that much, since Tsung does seem to spend the most time fighting in his own body, than taking someone else's form.
Don't know about Quan Chi being greater at sorcery though, since it was Tsung who defeated Raiden with that giant kobra of fire. Shang also created Meat and Mileena with his sorecery, and can steal souls. Quan's got good necromancy skills though.

Subzero didn't need Sareena's help against Quan Chi since he was already winning, but got it anyway. And Quan did die after that fight up until MK4 when he fell into his own pit and exploded.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He teleported out of there. How did he just show up in armageddon?
The same way Tsung was revived.

http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mka/shangtsung/

And if Quan Chi had teleported out of there, Onaga wouldn't of gotten hold of the amulet like he did.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he stated it like it was a fact.
No he didn't. He started by saying "I think of him as".

1-QiI1YKeCU

"I think" or "I believe" is a way of expressing opinion.

Originally posted by quanchi112
he helped create the games and was discussing the character and stated he is the greatest sorcerer in the mk universe.
Vogel said he thinks of Quan Chi as being that. Doesn't mean he actually is.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You want to cry and say it doesn't count because you don't like it.
Or, it could be because we understand the difference between fact and opinion. blah blah blah

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
No, I meant the younger Subzero is weaker than the older one. And that's based on feats, in addition to how elder Subzero made much better use of his freezing powers in his own game (MK Mythologies Subzero) than the younger one did in any game he was in. Not to mention, the older brother (as Noob Saibot) defeated the younger Subzero in Armageddon's Konquest mode.

Raiden's self-destruct clearly killed off everyone except Onaga, whom picks up the amulet off of Quan Chi's destroyed corpse. Tsung and Quan were then brought back later in Armageddon thanks to Shao Khan and Shinnok's magic.

Being killed by Scorpion doesn't overshadow his victory over the elemental gods, Quan Chi's personal assassins, Quan Chi himself, or Shinnok. He comes back as Noob Saibot anyway.

Very well. I suppose I can agree to that much, since Tsung does seem to spend the most time fighting in his own body, than taking someone else's form.
Don't know about Quan Chi being greater at sorcery though, since it was Tsung who defeated Raiden with that giant kobra of fire. Shang also created Meat and Mileena with his sorecery, and can steal souls. Quan's got good necromancy skills though.

Subzero didn't need Sareena's help against Quan Chi since he was already winning, but got it anyway. And Quan did die after that fight up until MK4 when he fell into his own pit and exploded.


The same way Tsung was revived.

http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mka/shangtsung/

And if Quan Chi had teleported out of there, Onaga wouldn't of gotten hold of the amulet like he did.


No he didn't. He started by saying "I think of him as".

1-QiI1YKeCU

"I think" or "I believe" is a way of expressing opinion.


Vogel said he thinks of Quan Chi as being that. Doesn't mean he actually is.


Or, it could be because we understand the difference between fact and opinion. blah blah blah His powers changed as Noob Saibot but as the older sub zero I feel the younger has surpassed him. Older Sub got his own game but quickly died in the tournament.

Where was this stated that they were brought back via Shinnok's and Shao's magic? I am pretty sure Quan teleported away at the last second as you can see him running back right before the blast comes off. If this is stated and I forgot show me.

He had aid against those characters in his own game which he had to win. he was killed by Scorpion whereas Quan's greatest feats were yet to come. Quan tricked Shinnok whereas Sub's victory really did nothing as they were all still present and accounted for.


Shang needed Quan and Quan needed Shang to defeat Raiden. When you see them battling Raiden Quan holds his own much more than Shang who is constantly getting knocked around. I think Shang has more feats since he has been around longer but the creators have spoken their piece about which one was the greater sorcerer.

Quan is the one who came up with the deadly alliance in the first place. he also was the reason they bested Liu Kang as he was destroying Shang on his own just like he usually does.

Is his death really canon though? I don't recall the creators ever sorting out the mess from the sub zero game and the mk mythos.

Ah, ok it makes sense it appears I forgot that they explained this in a bio.


Don't you think his opinion counts though and we have never heard word of any other creator giving Shang top billing over Quan chi.

How doesn't it when we have an actual creator telling you how Quan chi relates in the mk universe.


You tried telling me he didn't even work on the games in terms of story and tried downplaying it. Quan is greater than Shang in all regards.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His powers changed as Noob Saibot but as the older sub zero I feel the younger has surpassed him. Older Sub got his own game but quickly died in the tournament.

Where was this stated that they were brought back via Shinnok's and Shao's magic? I am pretty sure Quan teleported away at the last second as you can see him running back right before the blast comes off. If this is stated and I forgot show me.

He had aid against those characters in his own game which he had to win. he was killed by Scorpion whereas Quan's greatest feats were yet to come. Quan tricked Shinnok whereas Sub's victory really did nothing as they were all still present and accounted for.
Older Subzero has much more feats though, despite the younger one's powers being enhanced by the Lin Kuei dragon medallion. Older Sub also has a lot more special moves than the younger one, including the Polar Blast (unblockable move that freezes everything on screen), Super Slide Kick that makes him move at super high speeds, able to freeze while running and jumping, shattering opponents after using ice blast on them more than once, etc.

If Quan Chi teleported away, how was it that Onaga took hold of the amulet Quan was previously wearing?

Subzero didn't have aid. He was all alone throughout the temples of elements and the Netherrealm, defeating his adversaries one by one. Not to mention, he beat Scorpion twice before Scorpion finally killed him in the tournament when trying a 3rd time.

-gSg77PvSY0

Emwn-D1jwm4

Not everyone Subzero defeated is still present or accounted for either (the Water God, Earth God, Fire God, etc).

Originally posted by quanchi112
Shang needed Quan and Quan needed Shang to defeat Raiden. When you see them battling Raiden Quan holds his own much more than Shang who is constantly getting knocked around. I think Shang has more feats since he has been around longer but the creators have spoken their piece about which one was the greater sorcerer.

Quan is the one who came up with the deadly alliance in the first place. he also was the reason they bested Liu Kang as he was destroying Shang on his own just like he usually does.

Is his death really canon though? I don't recall the creators ever sorting out the mess from the sub zero game and the mk mythos.

Ah, ok it makes sense it appears I forgot that they explained this in a bio.


Don't you think his opinion counts though and we have never heard word of any other creator giving Shang top billing over Quan chi.

How doesn't it when we have an actual creator telling you how Quan chi relates in the mk universe.
True, they both needed each other to beat Raiden, but both were being knocked around by him for awhile to be fair, not just Shang.

True enough.

MK Mythologies is a prequel that leads up to the events of the 1st MK and is also the first game that Quan Chi appears in, so it's presumably canon. He still makes his comeback in MK4 after his first death, defeat, or whatever you wanna call it after being absent in the first 3 games.

I suppose the opinion does count when you put it that way..

Originally posted by quanchi112
You tried telling me he didn't even work on the games in terms of story and tried downplaying it. Quan is greater than Shang in all regards.
Admittedly, I forgot at first that Vogel worked on the story some too, so my apologies on that.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Older Subzero has much more feats though, despite the younger one's powers being enhanced by the Lin Kuei dragon medallion. Older Sub also has a lot more special moves than the younger one, including the Polar Blast (unblockable move that freezes everything on screen), Super Slide Kick that makes him move at super high speeds, able to freeze while running and jumping, shattering opponents after using ice blast on them more than once, etc.

If Quan Chi teleported away, how was it that Onaga took hold of the amulet Quan was previously wearing?

Subzero didn't have aid. He was all alone throughout the temples of elements and the Netherrealm, defeating his adversaries one by one. Not to mention, he beat Scorpion twice before Scorpion finally killed him in the tournament when trying a 3rd time.

-gSg77PvSY0

Emwn-D1jwm4

Not everyone Subzero defeated is still present or accounted for either (the Water God, Earth God, Fire God, etc).


True, they both needed each other to beat Raiden, but both were being knocked around by him for awhile to be fair, not just Shang.

True enough.

MK Mythologies is a prequel that leads up to the events of the 1st MK and is also the first game that Quan Chi appears in, so it's presumably canon. He still makes his comeback in MK4 after his first death, defeat, or whatever you wanna call it after being absent in the first 3 games.

I suppose the opinion does count when you put it that way..


Admittedly, I forgot at first that Vogel worked on the story some too, so my apologies on that. I get that he has more moves but in the mk universe and outside his own game he only had two moves despite mk 1 taking place after this game.

Despite how great he was according to you he still got killed by Scorpion.

I thought he just left the medallion. I can't remember but something tells me these bios weren't in the game and were leaked as time progressed after the game was released.

Yes, he defeated Scorpion but I think it's kinda implied Scorpion>original Sub Zero anyways.

The only reason they haven't made the games isn't due to their fates in the games it's due to the creators going elsewhere.

My point is Quan looked far better against raiden then Shang did.
Accepted and I will try to be more respectful as well in the future.

I also thought you were demonic phoenix so that's why my posts were a little harsher than usual.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I get that he has more moves but in the mk universe and outside his own game he only had two moves despite mk 1 taking place after this game.

Despite how great he was according to you he still got killed by Scorpion.

I thought he just left the medallion. I can't remember but something tells me these bios weren't in the game and were leaked as time progressed after the game was released.

Yes, he defeated Scorpion but I think it's kinda implied Scorpion>original Sub Zero anyways.

The only reason they haven't made the games isn't due to their fates in the games it's due to the creators going elsewhere.

My point is Quan looked far better against raiden then Shang did.
Accepted and I will try to be more respectful as well in the future.

I also thought you were demonic phoenix so that's why my posts were a little harsher than usual.
True, but MK1 came out like 5 years before they decided to go along with making Mythologies, so elder Subzero's other moves besides the regular freeze and slide kick had not yet been thought up of at the time.

If you mean the Armageddon bios, then yeah. They were sadly, and even then, not every character in the game had one (only a select few). Otherwise, I would've posted Quan Chi's.

True. Well, Scorpion becomes more powerful than original Subzero anyway eventually.

Eh, I guess that makes sense.

Yeah. Quan did do better against Raiden (although not by much), so I can accept that.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
True, but MK1 came out like 5 years before they decided to go along with making Mythologies, so elder Subzero's other moves besides the regular freeze and slide kick had not yet been thought up of at the time.

If you mean the Armageddon bios, then yeah. They were sadly, and even then, not every character in the game had one (only a select few). Otherwise, I would've posted Quan Chi's.

True. Well, Scorpion becomes more powerful than original Subzero anyway eventually.

Eh, I guess that makes sense.

Yeah. Quan did do better against Raiden (although not by much), so I can accept that. Agreed, but in combat he would't realistically have unstoppable moves anyways.

Yeah, I remember logging on to check this out vaguely but I wondered why they stopped making bios but it was to get ready for what the next game, right?

Yep.

Here, I finally found what it was I was remembering. I think they reveal this in the training story mode of the game.

Quan temporarily defeats Scorpion in the outworld right before he forms his alliance with Shang Tsung.

By temporarily I think he killed him but as scorpion he keeps coming back. I don't see the actual text though and haven't looked for it anywhere but here's a site which talks about it vaguely.

In the Netherealm, Quan Chi was tortured by Scorpion until the Oni Drahmin and Moloch found them. The Oni protected Quan Chi from Scorpion, and in return, Quan Chi promised to bring them back with him when he eventually escaped the Netherealm. Upon discovering a portal that led to Outworld, he fled without them, leaving them determined to destroy him. The portal led Quan Chi to the tomb containing the mummified remains of the long forgotten Dragon King. Reading the writings on the king's sarcophagus, Quan Chi realized that the army was invincible, and could be revived. With an idea in mind of the individual who could assist him in his aims, he journeyed to Shang Tsung's palace.

The sorcerer was still not be safe from Scorpion, however. The specter had pursued him into Outworld, and they fought, gaining the attention of Shang Tsung. Dispatching Scorpion temporarily, and impressing Tsung, Quan Chi described his plan to his fellow sorcerer; Quan Chi would open a "soulnado" to the heavens, providing Tsung with infinite souls, and Tsung would help him revive the army of the Dragon King. Together, they would embark with determination to achieve absolute domination of all realms, forming the Deadly Alliance.

Here's the link.

http://www.inreview.com/archive/topic/39123.html

quan chi owned shang tsung on 1 vs 1

quan chi even manage to best raiden in a brief fight when raiden punch him causing not much damage then quan chi punch him causing him more damage than raiden did to quan and quan delivers him a jumping kick to the chest, overall they portrayed raiden very weak in that intro not having too much skills and having to rely on his lightning , they actually show quan chi being superiour to raiden in a hand 2 hand fight when they exchanged blows thats sad

as for younger sub zero older sub zero i think right now the younger one is more powerful than the older one was but noob saibot owns him

lui kan did some krazy shit in shaolin monks