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The catholic Trinity cult is based on the Verses in John 1.1 which goes something like "and word is GOD".

But there are numerous occasions where Jesus prays to his father, this plus the fact that no one can see god and live tends to contradict this direction of though.

What do you all think?

From the earliest ages the concept of the Great Goddess was a trinity and a model for all other trinities. For instance in th 7th century BC. she was worships as a young woman, child bearing mother, and an old woman...Typical VIRGIN-MOTHER-CRONE.....

The middle east had many trinities and they were most all originally female.

Christianity borrowed this model and applied it to a male god..

The trinity is based on pagan roots...


See, god is a woman...

God is the father, Jesus his son, and the holy spirit are all in one.

hole(y) in one?

ha ha ha

The term trinity does not appear in the bible. It did not exist until Tertullian coined the term in the early third century.

yes, the bible doesn't say anything about that, but they are three different persons into one.

Originally posted by debbiejo
From the earliest ages the concept of the Great Goddess was a trinity and a model for all other trinities. For instance in th 7th century BC. she was worships as a young woman, child bearing mother, and an old woman...Typical VIRGIN-MOTHER-CRONE.....

The middle east had many trinities and they were most all originally female.

Christianity borrowed this model and applied it to a male god..

The trinity is based on pagan roots...


See, god is a woman... The origenal trinity was mother, maiden and crone. The church took on so many pagan practices such as holidays etc. a pagan on another board was wondering who converted who. Just because it is a pagan practise doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you believe christ was the Son of God, just a prophet, or a false prophet? There are a lot of similarities in the bibles view of jesus and theVvedeses story of krishna, the hindu god so that's cause for speculation but do you believe in the death and resurection.

Originally posted by cking
yes, the bible doesn't say anything about that, but they are three different persons into one. The Hindu trinity is Brahma, Krishna and Shiva, but they are one god. Brahma is the creator, Shiva is the destroyer, and Krishna is the sustainer but they're all one god. All there milions of demi gods are really just incarnations of god. That doesn't mean it came from there or the witches or the pagans but it makes it subject to doubt. I really don't think god has a split personality.

Originally posted by finti
hole(y) in one?

Your brain works alittle differently doesn't it??

not differently it just works.............. unlike many others

According to modalism, the three parts of the trinity are not separate persons. Instead, they are more like three successive modes in which a single god has manifested himself.

God is the father, Jesus son and savior, holy spirit the helper. all Christians have the spirit and nonbelievers don't. God is with that person only because of Jesus.

the helper like santas little helper.
Christians believe themselfs to be filled with this spirit and nonbelievers dont give a damn

no, when Jesus was with the disciples the spirit was there only with Jesus, but when he left, Jesus said he will ask the father to send the spirit, that will lead all men to truth and no one will recognize him. not very men before jesus had the spirit, but when jesus left, he was with all believers.

so all believers like to think yet again the non believers couldnt care less

no not exactly

yes exactly, non believers dont care

true, they don't believe so they don't care.

duh

duh!

I had to writer it 3 times to make you see the point

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

but then again Im used to discuss with people from Arkansas................

I'm just messing with you

so you telling me they finally learned some new tricks in Arkansas

nope, you were in high school, were you?

I was in High School yes

in Arkansas you were. I think it was in dover because you told me one time.

Dover is correct

what state or country, where you born at?

Im a Norwegian

so while you in the states, what did you learn about this country that is different from yours?

I learned that ther were more similarities than differences, we kind of get the wrong impression of US youths through the movie industry.
I also learned that we Norwegian are more tolerant toward other peoples believes than those who lived around me in Dover.
We were also very much more educated about the surrounding world than they were there, and even how faithful to their church society they tried to be (the teenagers)come Friday and Saturday they had exactly the same desires I had, Sunday they were lambs again

the states is a multicultural land

well Dover Arkansas wasnt much multicultural, Europe is multicultured as well so...............

Europe and America are alike in some ways, but not always.

We have a little bit more different languageshere in Europe than in the States. And the common European would be offended if you compared him to someone from the States

I didn't know that.

just the way it is, you see Americans aint the most popular people around. Some of the reason is out of ignorance others are the way some American tourists behave while visiting Europe, then we have USA and its foreign politics to sum up the rest

sure aren't. Americans will be Americans.

sure arent what?

they aren't really popular people.

well guess that much is correct, to bad an entire population shall suffer from the mistakes and wrongdoings of a few

Trinity? Definitely NOT Biblical.

No verse in the Bible does it mention that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is ONE in being God. According to Jesus Christ Himself, only ONE who is True God... and that is the Father... definitely not the Son, not the Holy Spirit.

cking..I thought you might want to know that a friend and I lit some candles last night, said some rituals, and sprinkled some dog blood to cast that spirit out of ya....We wanted to make you human....

Originally posted by Jury
Trinity? Definitely NOT Biblical.

No verse in the Bible does it mention that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is ONE in being God. According to Jesus Christ Himself, only ONE who is True God... and that is the Father... definitely not the Son, not the Holy Spirit. God is holy and God is spirit. The catholics needed a third person to make up a trinity so they decided it was a separate person.

God is Holy. Yes.
God is Spirit. Yes.

...And this God is the Father.
...the Creator.

The Father is not the Son ... not the Holy Spirit.

These three are distinct to each other... and therefore NOT one in being God.

Only ONE who is True God... and that is the Father in heaven.

well Im so glad you all agree uppon the religion you believe in..........says more about the religion than anything else

Originally posted by Jury
God is Holy. Yes.
God is Spirit. Yes.

...And this God is the Father.
...the Creator.

The Father is not the Son ... not the Holy Spirit.

These three are distinct to each other... and therefore NOT one in being God.

Only ONE who is True God... and that is the Father in heaven. The holy spirit is what god is, it is not a person at least in my way of thinking. Jesus may be the son of God but he is not god. I am not so sure he should be considered the Son of God anymore. I don't know very much about him but I think I agree with arius on this.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm He was labeled a hereic by the catholic church in the fourth century because he didn't believe in the trinity.

Hey...everyones a heretic these days.

Originally posted by markie
The holy spirit is what god is, it is not a person at least in my way of thinking. Jesus may be the son of God but he is not god. I am not so sure he should be considered the Son of God anymore. I don't know very much about him but I think I agree with arius on this.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm He was labeled a hereic by the catholic church in the fourth century because he didn't believe in the trinity.
Simply because Trinitarians under-estimate the efficacy of the Holy Scriptures. They rather choose to believe in a "mystery" which humans had incorporated more than two hundred years after the demise of Christ's desciples than to believe in God's proclamation that He is alone the True God... and Jesus' declaration that the Father ALONE is the True God.

Good link Markie....It's interesting how these councils determined how and what we all should think...They were really detrimental to what Jesus taught......It really destroyed his message.

Originally posted by debbiejo
cking..I thought you might want to know that a friend and I lit some candles last night, said some rituals, and sprinkled some dog blood to cast that spirit out of ya....We wanted to make you human.... I bet that was messy. Did you get the dog blood cleaned up?

Originally posted by markie
I bet that was messy. Did you get the dog blood cleaned up?



It was quite a mess......I don't like it when we have to use dogs.....

But I figured it was worth it to give cking a human soul...

so you christians got back to that blood lust stage of yours

It was a meaningful sacrifice...There was a soul in the balance.

yet they loved the flow of the blood

Yes....and cages.

yes the C P O T Z T C E

eek


Lovely time....giljotiini

not really

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=429 You might want to look at this website. The book of adam may be apocrypha, but I think it gives a more accurate picture of who jesus was.http://members.tripod.com/misticbible/id23.htm

There is no such thing as a trinity, there is One God Jesus! The Bible clearly says to be baptized in The Name Of Jesus, acts 2;38, in other passages it says in theNAME of (note;SINGULAR) The Father, Son And Holy Ghost which happen to be one supreme being. They are titles, the same as brother, uncle, cousin are titles. You can be all 3 and have one name! If they meant in the NAMES of, that is what the Bible would say, I guess they figured people were bright enough to discern this theirself, so they did not have to spell it out all the time, it is common sense, unfortunately a lot of organized religions and the great liar himself have got a lot of people hoodwinked!

Indeed... there is ONLY one Name.
And this Name comes from the One and Only True God --- the Father ---this is the 'Name' that He gave to Jesus, His Son.

Obviously, the Giver is different from the Recipient... and they can never be ONE in being.

well if god jesus and holy spirit are all names of one god, those three namse still form a trinity

Originally posted by vicki horvath
There is no such thing as a trinity, there is One God Jesus! The Bible clearly says to be baptized in The Name Of Jesus, acts 2;38, in other passages it says in theNAME of (note;SINGULAR) The Father, Son And Holy Ghost which happen to be one supreme being. They are titles, the same as brother, uncle, cousin are titles. You can be all 3 and have one name! If they meant in the NAMES of, that is what the Bible would say, I guess they figured people were bright enough to discern this theirself, so they did not have to spell it out all the time, it is common sense, unfortunately a lot of organized religions and the great liar himself have got a lot of people hoodwinked!

So your a apostolic Christian quoting Act 2:38....Do you believe that speaking tongues is a sign of having the Holy Ghost?

wanna know what I believe it is a sign of?

OK.....scare me.

lunacy

Originally posted by cking
yes, the bible doesn't say anything about that, but they are three different persons into one. 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Was God talking to himself when he said let us? He is supposed to be talking to jesus and the holy spirit but if they're god than god myst have beeb talking to himself. I wonder if there are any psychiatrists in heaven.

Originally posted by markie
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Was God talking to himself when he said let us? He is supposed to be talking to jesus and the holy spirit but if they're god than god myst have beeb talking to himself. I wonder if there are any psychiatrists in heaven.

Sense we are all parts of "The One"....we could of been part of the creating also.....Maybe he was talking to the "whole of all there is" which would include us.

Their was a trinity in early Christianity,but seeing as orthodox Christians realy went against women we ended up with the Father,the Son,and the Holy Ghost.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
Their was a trinity in early Christianity,but seeing as orthodox Christians realy went against women we ended up with the Father,the Son,and the Holy Ghost.


What if it was....The Mother, the daugher and be filled with the spirit...

Though I guess it would make since that people say Mother Earth, and Father Sky...

One could point to such things as His miracles, but other people have done done miracles, so while this may be indicative, it's not decisive. Of course, the Resurrection was the ultimate vindication of his identity. But of the many things He did, one of the most striking is His forgiving of sin.

The point is, if you do something against me, I have the right to forgive you. However, if you do something against me and somebody else comes along and says, "I forgive you," what kind of cheek is that? The only person who can say that sort of thing meaningfully is God Himself, because sin, even if it is against other people, is first and foremost a defiance of God and his laws.

Every attribute of God, says the New Testament, is found in Jesus Christ:

Omniscience? In John 16:30 the apostle John affirms of Jesus, "Now we can see that you know all things."

Omnipresence? Jesus said in Matthew 28:20, "Surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" and in Matthew 18:20, "Where two of three comes together in my name, there I am with them."

Omnipotence? "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me," Jesus said in Matthew 28:18.

Eternality? John 1:1 declares of Jesus, "In the beginning was teh Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Immutability? Hebrews 13:8 says, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

Also, the Old Testament paints a portrait of God by using titles and descriptions as Alpha and Omega, Lord, Savior, King, Judge, Light, Rock, Redeemer, Shepard, Creator, Giver of Life, Forgiver of Sin, and Speaker with Divine Authority. It's fascinating to nate that in the New Testament, each and every one is applied to Jesus Christ.

In a day when MANY have been decieved about the true nature of Jesus Christ, we ought to remember that heaven is not one iota confused about His identity. Understood in the light of Exodus 15 and the song of Moses, this verse makes plain that God whom Moses and the children of Israel addressed in the face of their great earthly victory was none other than Jesus Christ. For confirmation of this fact I quote selected portions of the great psalm.

Then Moses and the Iraelites sang this song to the Lord: "I will sing to the LORD, for he is highly exalted. The horse and its rider he has hurled into the sea. The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him. The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name.... You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance-the place, O LORD, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, O LORD, your hands established. The LORD will reign for ever and ever." Exodus 15:1-3, 17-18

The fact that these saints combine this song and the song of the Lamb can only be explained on the basis that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. The song of Moses and the Lamb in Revelation 15:3-4 clearly identifies Jesus Christ with the attributes of God Himself. No person or created being has ever been addressed like this. Note the characteristics attributed to Him:

1. Creation: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty."

2. Justice: "Just and true are your ways."

3. Object of worship: "King of the ages. Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name?"

4. Holiness: "For you alone are holy."

5. Omnipotence and eternity: "All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."

The most pitiful people in the world are the religionists who, representing modernistic liberlism or the cults and "isms," do not understand who Jesus Christ is. The book of Revelation certainly clarifies His identity, and if for no other reason, it is worthy of study because it does what its introduction predicted. Revelation 1:1 announces "the revelation of Jesus Christ." It is the only book in the world that truly presents Jesus Christ as He really is today.

Jesus answered,... I and My Father are one.' Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make yourself God.'" -John 10:25-33

"Philip said to Him, 'Lord show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.' Jesus said to him, 'Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?'" -John 14:8,9

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." Colossians 1:15-17

"When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, 'Son, your sins are forgiven you.' But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 'Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?'" Mark 2:5-7

"Of whom (the Jewish people) are the fathers and from whom, acording to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen." Romans 9:5

"And we know that the Son of God has come and has given understanding, that we may know him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." 1 John 5:20 John who is an eyewitness of Jesus Christ, makes no hesitation in calling him God!

If you disagree, you are not Christian. Become a member of Islam. You'll fit right in nicely.

Omniscience".


Yes, God is in all things including us......how could He not be....God is in all things already.........


And your posts are really tooo long...can you shorten them....

Jesus spoke for God, the muslems think that about mohammed but they don't worship him. You didn't post jesus' reaction to the crowd that was going to stone him. He said is it not written in your law I have made ye gods. I don't want to be a muslem In would rather be a christian heritic like debbiejo.

Thanks......Only to be one people must do their research and not follow blindly.....as most people do.....And I don't really claim to know all there is.

Just love living the gift of my life.

Markie

"Jesus answered,... 'I and My Father are one.' Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For good works we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God." John 10:25-33

If you do not wish to be a Muslim, while denying the core beliefs of Christianity, maybe you should reevaluate your position on religion all together?

debbiejo

You need to divorce yourself from Christian cult websites. Xavaier Gay Witch? And you actually put stock in it. Unreal.

Originally posted by ushomefree
debbiejo

You need to divorce yourself from Christian cult websites. Xavaier Gay Witch? And you actually put stock in it. Unreal.

That was only the first site I pulled up to find something quick....I have many books and have done much research on the topic......

Besides heretics like me are drawn to cults......It's called looking outside the box.....Looking at all the views, study them and then become something very much multi dimensional....

BTW....99 percent of my friends are Christians that live in small boxes....I go and visit....I bring gifts even.

If you're saying jesus said he is God in that passage that can be disproven. If you're saying jesus is the Son of God that may or may not be true but what about the sons of god in the old testament?
34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
The judges were called gods and since hebrew had no capital letters at that time jesus said he was the son of god. So was David, so were the neptilion in genesis 6 before thee flood.

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
He said I am the son of god, but according to one theory the sons of Seth were called sons of god and according to the other theory the devil spirits were the sons of god. So jesus was either a man or he was a devil spirit, but he wasn't God.

Originally posted by ushomefree
debbiejo

You need to divorce yourself from Christian cult websites. Xavaier Gay Witch? And you actually put stock in it. Unreal.


Cult websites?Since when is recored history considered to belong to a cult?And don't ever forget,at one time orthodox christians where considered a cult.

debbiejo

Multidimensional? Okay... when you research any given topic, you need to posses the ability to interpret fact from fiction. One way to aid in your efforts, is to understand and access the credibility of the source. There are unlimited numbers of websites dedicated to the religions and philosophies of the world. If you conduct research properly, at some point, you will have turn off the computer and purchase a few books written by subject matter experts. If you are willing, and interested in learning about the stock market and the most effective ways to compile a portfolio, consider buying a book written by Warren Buffet, and refrain from deprived sources of information. Religion is no different. And, it seems to me, that you buy into Christian websites that distort the truth and meaning behind scripture. I do not have all the answers surrounding Christianity. But, engaging in conversation over deep seeded issues on this forum will not bring resolution to any belief system. And either will secluded websites that claim secret information and missing links to Christianity or Jesus Christ for the matter. They are lame by their strongest definition. No pun intended. Despite all the negative remarks about websites, (if you must), fair and balanced sources are avaliable. Below is one example. You will clearly see the difference.

www.irr.org/yamauchi.html

markie

Simple question. Who is to return during latter portion of the Great Tribulation described in the book of Revelation?

mr. smiley

Cults derive from host religions, not the other way around. Christianity is based on the historicity of Jesus Christ. Not all history is reliable. There is better historical documentation for Jesus than for the founder of any other ancient religion. Sources from OUTSIDE the Bible corroborate that many people believed Jesus performed healings and was the Messiah, that he was crucified, and that despite His shameful death, His followers, who believed He was still alive, worshiped Him as God. And, there are thirty-nine ancient sources that corroborate more than 100 facts concerning Jesus' life, teachings, crucifixion, and resurrection. Seven secular sources and several early creeds concern the deity of Jesus, a doctrine definitely present in the earliest church. Even the book of Koran has scripture dedicated to Jesus Christ.

The biggest thing we have of a historical Christ (that wasn't later added by Eusbeius) was 50 years after his supposed death and comes from Tacitus.The problem is Tactius' information is not accurate on the source.He calls Pilate the procurator of Judea when he was actualy the prefect.

The best actual history we have of Christianity comes from Paul.In his authentic letters (the church admitted to forging most),Paul never referst to Jesus in a historical text.Even more amazing is that Paul tells us he never met Christ,but a being of light.In one letter he even tells us the secret is "Christ is in you".Paul even goes as far as to tell us if Jesus would have been on earth he wouldn't (or would have can't recall) ben a rabbi.He never says when Jesus was on earth.

the only difference between Jesus and the rest of the religious figures of the past is that jesus is God in the flesh while the rest were just human.

then please proove jesus divinity, and we need undisputable proof

Originally posted by ushomefree
debbiejo

Multidimensional? Okay... when you research any given topic, you need to posses the ability to interpret fact from fiction. One way to aid in your efforts, is to understand and access the credibility of the source. There are unlimited numbers of websites dedicated to the religions and philosophies of the world. If you conduct research properly, at some point, you will have turn off the computer and purchase a few books written by subject matter experts. If you are willing, and interested in learning about the stock market and the most effective ways to compile a portfolio, consider buying a book written by Warren Buffet, and refrain from deprived sources of information. Religion is no different. And, it seems to me, that you buy into Christian websites that distort the truth and meaning behind scripture. I do not have all the answers surrounding Christianity. But, engaging in conversation over deep seeded issues on this forum will not bring resolution to any belief system. And either will secluded websites that claim secret information and missing links to Christianity or Jesus Christ for the matter. They are lame by their strongest definition. No pun intended. Despite all the negative remarks about websites, (if you must), fair and balanced sources are avaliable. Below is one example. You will clearly see the difference.
.

I've read all the books from the Right Arm of Babylon (Christian Book Store). I have a library that's toooooo large filled with many different religious, historical amongst other topics....I don't get all my knowledge from web sites...only refer to them when in a hurry and don't feel like fetching one of my books....I feel I am balanced when I post my opinion on a topic that I know something about....I am not ignorant if that is what your trying to imply......When I say I'm multi dimensional....I'm saying I look at all the possibilities.....Maybe you should step out of your box, and take in the view.....

Originally posted by cking
the only difference between Jesus and the rest of the religious figures of the past is that jesus is God in the flesh while the rest were just human.


Osiris,Mithra,and Attis were also God made flesh.

cking will you at least read this....http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

so you are saying Jesus is not God. then who is he if he wasn't, you tell me? can anyone take beatings like him? can anyone teach like him?

many religions like Horus can take stuff out of the bible and turn into a different teachings. many religions have figures who try to get the teachings of Jesus and change it to sound like they are both the same. But none of the apostles said they went listened to other people. they said they were witnesses to his death and teachings and wrote them down. this Horus could have been written after Jesus even through it was written before, but you never know they could lie about the years.

ordinary man with a delusion, and yes and yes

not ordinary and not a delusion, people would die if they were beaten like him and so they kept beating him because he simply wouldn't die until he got on the cross.

peopel have had worse torutre than that this jesus got and lived to tell the tale, he was ordinary nothing there to say otherwise, no proof of his alleged divinity but his followers belief in it

Originally posted by cking
many religions like Horus can take stuff out of the bible and turn into a different teachings.

But Horus came first.......The Bible copied that story....not the other way around.

Originally posted by debbiejo
But Horus came first.......The Bible copied that story....not the other way around.

Many parts of the bible can be traced to older stories. See Gilgamesh...

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/GILG.HTM

Thanks for that one.....just save it to my favs......didn't have that one.


READ CKING....READ!!!!!

the apostles didn't say they copied it but witnessed the things of Jesus and if was a false teachings then Jesus was a made of character and both of us would be doomed. when Pilate had Jesus in his room, he said to Jesus that he has the key to life and death over him, but Jesus said, you don't have nothing over me but only the father of up above. It wasn't people hurting him it was God and he determined his son's death. God used the Romans to whip him because of sin and every whip was like sin itself. Jesus suffered both physically and spiritually. I read that information but still it lacks alot and jesus warned of false teachings and false religions. jesus could be saying this to Horus. people want you to think that it was written before jesus and want you to think that the new testament is a lie and tell you jesus was a made up character and his death was in vain. Trying to read this Horus is too confusing and it only hurts a person and it takes away the real truth from that person. people can't be naive and believe everything and if so then people will never find success because they try and believe stuff not told in the bible. all believers should understand the bible only and not from regular people who don't believe and say they know the real truth.

Jesus as a myth
The existence of Gnosticism and various mystery religions, with close similarities to Christianity, has led the mythological school to suggest that Christianity was strongly influenced by these, essentially building a mystery religion on the foundation of a Judaic tradition (syncretism). This would have included linking the two through Jesus' attempts to fulfill Old Testament prophecies, or else for later writers to claim that he did. More generally it would have included mythologising a Jewish leader into a Son of God, and a representative of wisdom and knowledge. Some have argued that, due to what they claim is a lack of physical evidence, he may never have existed outside the mythological realm at all.


THOUGH I THINK JESUS WAS A REAL MAN....MAY HAVE EVEN RESURRECTED......

Originally posted by cking
the apostles didn't say they copied it but witnessed the things of Jesus and if was a false teachings then Jesus was a made of character and both of us would be doomed. when Pilate had Jesus in his room, he said to Jesus that he has the key to life and death over him, but Jesus said, you don't have nothing over me but only the father of up above. It wasn't people hurting him it was God and he determined his son's death. God used the Romans to whip him because of sin and every whip was like sin itself. Jesus suffered both physically and spiritually. I read that information but still it lacks alot and jesus warned of false teachings and false religions. jesus could be saying this to Horus. people want you to think that it was written before jesus and want you to think that the new testament is a lie and tell you jesus was a made up character and his death was in vain. Trying to read this Horus is too confusing and it only hurts a person and it takes away the real truth from that person. people can't be naive and believe everything and if so then people will never find success because they try and believe stuff not told in the bible. all believers should understand the bible only and not from regular people who don't believe and say they know the real truth.

I'm sorry to tell you this; the bible was written by men, regular people. Sometimes they made mistakes and sometimes they got it right. But, please believe as you will, forgive me if I have upset you.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Jesus as a myth
THOUGH I THINK JESUS WAS A REAL MAN....MAY HAVE EVEN RESURRECTED......

I will tell you a secret, but don't tell anyone. We all get resurrected all the time. Everyone misunderstood Jesus, he was telling us about reincarnation.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I will tell you a secret, but don't tell anyone. We all get resurrected all the time. Everyone misunderstood Jesus, he was telling us about reincarnation.

I've read about that...yes..

no, god used people to spread his word, because God cannot appear in his regular form or else the people will die. Jesus DID resurrect, if you go to Jerusalem you can find his tomb and it is empty and no to this day can say we have found jesus body. these prophets CANNOT make mistakes and if do they would be killed, they are lead by the spirit instead of themselves. alot of people wanted physical evidence when jesus was on earth, but jesus didn't allow them because they would never believe him anyway and would have found more reasons to kill him. jesus had another name called Emanuel which means god is with us and Isaiah talks about Jesus more than any book. jesus was real and he will come back like he said and make all things new. The bible is not physical evidence it is your belief you think it is true or not. it is easy to say it is not real but it is and more people are finding more artifacts that are more evidence to the writings.

Jesus never taught about reincarnation. resurrection is the life being brought back to the body not the body changing into another person or to begin a different life but a body that is more efficient than when it was alive

Reincarnation and the Hebrew Religion

The first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus wrote about the Pharisees being believers in reincarnation. The Pharisees were the Jewish sect which Paul belonged to before his NDE and conversion to Christianity. Josephus wrote about the Pharisees' belief that the souls of evil men are punished after death. But the souls of good men are "removed into other bodies" and they will have "power to revive and live again."

From time to time throughout Jewish history, there was a persistent belief about dead prophets returning to life through reincarnation. But the Sadducees, a purist sect of Judaism, rejected the Persian concepts of resurrection and all Hellenistic influences involving reincarnation that was happening in Jesus' day. The Sadducees accepted only the orthodox Hebrew belief in Sheol. So there were a variety of influences going on in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus.

When Jesus began his ministry, many people wondered if he was the reincarnation of one of the prophets. Some people wondered the same thing concerning John the Baptist. And even Jesus affirmed to his disciples that John the Baptist was indeed the reincarnation of the prophet Elijah. Throughout his ministry, Jesus taught people about the true resurrection - a spiritual rebirth within a living person. Thus, when Jesus stated that he was the resurrection and the life, he was teaching them a radical new principle. It was a rebirth of the spirit - not into a new body - as when we are born from our mother's womb - but a rebirth of our spirit within the body we now inhabit. Jesus was distinguishing between what was already believed in those days concerning the afterlife and a new teaching concerning a spiritual change within us that can lead to liberation. He was making a distinction between "the resurrection of the body" (returning to life from physical death) and "the resurrection of the spirit" (returning to life from spiritual death). As you will soon see, this confusion concerning Jesus teachings is documented in John 3 when Jesus had to explain to Nicodemus the difference between physical rebirth and spiritual rebirth.

Reincarnation and Early Christianity

The first great Father of the early orthodox Church was Origen (A.D. 185-254) who was the first person since Paul to develop a system of theology around the teachings of Jesus. Origen was an ardent defender of pre-existence and reincarnation. Pre-existence is the religious concept of the soul as not being created at birth; rather the soul existed before birth in heaven or in a past life on earth. Origen taught that pre-existence is found in Hebrew scriptures and the teachings of Jesus.

Origen was a disciple of Clement of Alexandria who was a disciple of the apostle Peter. Clement and Origen wrote about receiving secret teachings of Jesus handed down from the apostles. One of these secret teachings was the concept of physical and spiritual rebirth. The existence of secret teachings and mysteries from Jesus is recorded in the Bible. Here are some of them:


He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)


I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:25-27)


Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51)


The doctrines of pre-existence and reincarnation existed as secret teachings of Jesus until they were declared a heresy by the Roman Church in 553 A.D. It was at this time that the Roman Church aggressively destroyed competing teachings and so-called heresies within the Church. Along with the destruction of unorthodox teachings came the destruction of Jews, Gnostics, and ultimately anyone who stood in the way of the Inquisition and Crusades.

But on December, 1945, writings containing many of these secrets of early Christianity were unearthed in upper Egypt. This area was one of the the main locations where Christians fled to when the Romans invaded Israel. It was here that these secrets were continued to be taught. Undisturbed since their concealment almost two thousand years ago, these writings of the secret teachings belonged to a early sect of Christians called Gnostics and these writings ranked in importance with the Dead Sea Scrolls which were discovered two years later. These so-called secret teachings concerning life and death are strikingly similar to what we know about near-death experiences.

He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance." (Matt. 13:11-12)


I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Col. 1:25-27)


Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51)


JUST THOUGHT I'D GIVE YOU THIS PORTION, JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T READ IT ALL...

the Sadducee's never believed in angels or even heaven. but the Pharisees did. many people thought he was a reincarnation of older prophets. no Jesus didn't exactly teach that john the baptist is Elijah coming back but he has the spirit of Elijah with him and did many things similar to Elijah but he never said he was Elijah but john with the spirit of Elijah. when Elijah went to heaven, Elisha the successor wanted a double share of his spirit and Elijah would grant him if only if he saw him go into heaven. when he did he left his cloak on the ground and used it and he cut the Jordan river in half like Elijah did. did many miracles like Elijah did. Jesus said he would come back to set things right. john came in the spirit of Elijah and it is very possible it is Elijah but with a different name. God can send people to earth as different people with names, but he only did it during that time. this isn't reincarnating. it is simply people form heaven coming down to earth as different people. john did have the spirit form birth and no human besides Jesus had the spirit from birth, so really it is Elijah but with a different name. it only came to just to be the forerunner for Jesus.

Originally posted by cking
so you are saying Jesus is not God. then who is he if he wasn't, you tell me? can anyone take beatings like him? can anyone teach like him?


Actualy I belive it was Celsus who took a very critical look at the beatings Jesus took.He complains that if the Christians were going to copy the God man story to their liking they should have at least done it better.I can't remember the name of the Pagan prophet,but celsus tells us the story of his beating was even fiercer than that of the Christians Christ.As a guard went to break his leg he looked up at the guard.The guard began to twist his leg and the prophet told him "you're breaking it.And after it broke he told the guard I told you so.Celsus also mentions others.I try to find them.

Jesus suffered god judgement on the cross in both a physical and spiritual state. Jesus said that no man has the ability to kill him unless it was from God. so Jesus could be ran over by a car and still not be killed because God himself has to decide. Jesus could have not died on the cross. Jesus could have died later if God wanted to.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
The catholic Trinity cult is based on the Verses in John 1.1 which goes something like "and word is GOD".

But there are numerous occasions where Jesus prays to his father, this plus the fact that no one can see god and live tends to contradict this direction of though.

What do you all think? The Greek word logos should be in it's feminine form sophia like it is in proverbs. Logos is the masculine form of the word sophia which means wisdom. That verse says in the beginning was wisdom and wisdom was with God and Wisdom was God. If they are going to use a trinity to describe god they should consider the holy ghost to be a woman.It's not true and it doesn't make sense but that's what they teavch and if they can't explain something they just say god can do anything, it's a mistery.

I believe that Trinity came from what today is considered occultism, and what have many origins Jewish, Egyptian, Indian mysticism and more.
They divide the human being in 7 levels of the soul, the three upper levels are considered divine. So the Trinity could be from there.

Originally posted by cking
no, god used people to spread his word, because God cannot appear in his regular form or else the people will die. Jesus DID resurrect, if you go to Jerusalem you can find his tomb and it is empty and no to this day can say we have found jesus body. these prophets CANNOT make mistakes and if do they would be killed, they are lead by the spirit instead of themselves. alot of people wanted physical evidence when jesus was on earth, but jesus didn't allow them because they would never believe him anyway and would have found more reasons to kill him. jesus had another name called Emanuel which means god is with us and Isaiah talks about Jesus more than any book. jesus was real and he will come back like he said and make all things new. The bible is not physical evidence it is your belief you think it is true or not. it is easy to say it is not real but it is and more people are finding more artifacts that are more evidence to the writings. I don't think god possesed his prophets and toook away their freedom of will. They made mistakes just like anybody else, david commited adultry with bathsheba and had her husband killed, soloman had hundreds of wives etc. Prophets are people too.

true, but they CANNOT make a mistake concerning prophecy and if they did they would either be killed by god for disobeying, just one prophet did when God sent a lion to kill one in the book of kings. or they would be stoned to death for false prophecy, false prophet and maybe blaspheming god.

Originally posted by cking
God is the father, Jesus his son, and the holy spirit are all in one. Originally posted by cking
yes, the bible doesn't say anything about that, but they are three different persons into one. A Nicene view.
Originally posted by cking
God is the father, Jesus son and savior, holy spirit the helper. all Christians have the spirit and nonbelievers don't. God is with that person only because of Jesus. Yes. But that's not implying Trinity.

God is not the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
God is not Trinity.
Only the Father is the true God.

I've learned this from Christ. (John 17:1-3)

Actually the word "Trinity" is not mentioned in the OT...It's only assumed...But the Trinity did appear as a Great Goddess and the model for all subsequent Trinities, female, male or mixed..Starting in the 7th millennium B.C.

Jesus Christ was put on trial not because of His good works, but His claimed identity. The Jews knew the magnitude of Jesus Christ calling Himself the Son of God. They screamed blasphemy!

Christianity is a monotheistic religion. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the same essence. God transcends, and is not subjected and limited to 4 dimensions as we human beings. That is precisely why we human beings cannot fully grasp the concept.

If Jesus Christ wasn't God reincarnate humbling Himself to carry out perfect ministry and sacrifice for all sins of human beings, then who was He? If you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, refrain from calling Him the Christ. Instead, call Him Jesus of Nazareth to further compliment your belief.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Jesus Christ was put on trial not because of His good works, but His claimed identity. The Jews knew the magnitude of Jesus Christ calling Himself the Son of God. They screamed blasphemy!

Christianity is a monotheistic religion. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the same essence. God transcends, and is not subjected and limited to 4 dimensions as we human beings. That is precisely why we human beings cannot fully grasp the concept.

If Jesus Christ wasn't God reincarnate humbling Himself to carry out perfect ministry and sacrifice for all sins of human beings, then who was He? If you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, refrain from calling Him the Christ. Instead, call Him Jesus of Nazareth to further compliment your belief.

I always call him Jesus. Jesus was the incarnate of God, and so was Buddha. Jesus was misunderstood.

When Jesus indeed was claiming to be the Son of God, many people really thought that He was claiming to be God. Misconception. Misunderstanding. They didn't had the Spirit to acknowledge the Truth Jesus was saying.

To be the Son of God doesn't necessarily mean to be God also. That's what they didn't understand. Jesus is a Man. Yet God claimed Him to be His Son. Because He was God's set purpose before the foundation of the world. Being a Man proves that He is not God. Because God is not a man. And any man can never be God. Even Jesus. So there's no God-Man as other imply.

Originally posted by Jury
When Jesus indeed was claiming to be the Son of God, many people really thought that He was claiming to be God. Misconception. Misunderstanding. They didn't had the Spirit to acknowledge the Truth Jesus was saying.

To be the Son of God doesn't necessarily mean to be God also. That's what they didn't understand. Jesus is a Man. Yet God claimed Him to be His Son. Because He was God's set purpose before the foundation of the world. Being a Man proves that He is not God. Because God is not a man. And any man can never be God. Even Jesus. So there's no God-Man as other imply.

One of the main reasons the Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah is because the Messiah must be a human, not a god. Jesus was a man and not God, therefore he was the true Messiah and God. But so am I, and so are you.

As long as the Bible doesn't say Jesus is God, I will not believe He is God. I believe in what Jesus said, "Father... this is the eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God..."... Hence, according to Jesus Christ Himself, the Father is the only true God... not the Son... not the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by Jury
As long as the Bible doesn't say Jesus is God, I will not believe He is God. I believe in what Jesus said, "Father... this is the eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God..."... Hence, according to Jesus Christ Himself, the Father is the only true God... not the Son... not the Holy Spirit.

I am not good at finding scripture, but I believe that he also said that we are all gods. Maybe you can find the passage.

Yes, in some other ways, a man can be called "god", "lord", "master" whatever... but surely it is not what we are dfiscussing in this thread.

This thread is about Trinity. And it upholds that the Godship of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE.... and each supposedly God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

BUt Jesus is not saying the same. He proclaimed that the Father is the one and only true God.

Definitely not Jesus Himself who is the Son, not the Holy Spirit... and surely not all of us.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am not good at finding scripture, but I believe that he also said that we are all gods. Maybe you can find the passage.

Jesus was speaking to others when he said "you say you are gods"

No concept of Trinity in those verses. Those verses didn't prove that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, made up ONE TRUE GOD.

Buddha did not claim to have a special relationship with God. In fact, Buddha did not consider the matter of God's existence to be important, because it did not pertain to the issue of how to escape suffering. Buddha claimed to point to the way by which we could escape suffering and attain enlightenment. Buddha taught that the way to eliminate suffering was by eliminating desire.

Jesus did claim to have a special relationship with God (John 3:16; 6:44; 10:30; 14:6,9). Jesus claimed to be the way by which we could receive salvation and eternal life ( John 14:6; 5:35). Jesus taught that the solution to suffering is found not in eliminatinig desire but in having right desire (Matthew 5:6).

This is common knowledge.

If you do something against me, I have the right to forgive you. However, if you do something against me and somebody else comes along and says, "I forgive you," what kind of cheek is that? The only person who can say that sort of thing meaningfully is God Himself, because sin, even if it is against other people, is first and foremost a defiance of God and His laws.

Also, the Old Testament paints a portrait of God by using titles and descriptions as Alpha and Omega, Lord, Savior, King, Judge, Light, Rock, Redeemer, Shepard, Creator, Giver of Life, Forgiver of Sin, and Speaker with Divine Authority.

It's fascinating to note that in the New Testament, each and every one is applied to Jesus Christ.

In a day when many have been decieved about the true nature of Jesus Christ, we ought to remember that heaven is not one iota confused about His identity.

Understood in the light of Exodus 15 and the song of Moses, this verse makes plain that God whom Moses and the children of Israel addressed in the face of their great earthly victory was none other than Jesus Christ. For confirmation of this fact, read selected portions of the great psalm.

Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the Lord:

"I will sing to the LORD, for he is highly exalted. The horse and its rider He has hurled into the sea. The LORD is my strength and my song; He has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise Him, my father's God, and I will exalt Him. The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is His name.... You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance-the place, O LORD, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, O LORD, your hands established. The LORD will reign for ever and ever." Exodus 15:1-3, 17-18

The fact that these saints combine this song and the song of the Lamb can only be explained on the basis that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. The song of Moses and the Lamb in Revelation 15:3-4 clearly identifies Jesus Christ with the attributes of God Himself. No person or created being has ever been addressed like this. Note the characteristics attributed to Him:

Creation: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty."

Justice: "Just and true are your ways."

Object of Worship: "King of the ages. Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name?"

Holiness: "For you alone are holy."

Omnipotence and Eternity: "All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed."

The religionists who, representing modernistic liberlism or the cults and "isms," do not understand who Jesus Christ is. The book of Revelation certainly clarifies His identity, and if for no other reason, it is worthy of study because it does what its introduction predicted. Revelation 1:1 announces "the revelation of Jesus Christ." It is the only book in the world that truly presents Jesus Christ as He really is today.

Sheesh... Christianity is a monotheistic religion. The Christian God does NOT share power and it is blasphemy to worship other Gods and idols. Only God has the authority to forgive the sin of human beings! And yet, here we have Jesus Christ doing so. Jesus Christ holds the keys to Hades for crying out loud and will judge all human beings on Earth! Your views on the deity of Jesus Christ are extremely short sighted. No pun intended.

Yes, the Father - being the one and only true God - is the only One who can forgive sins. Jesus personally cannot do that. He cannot do that without the Father. Meaning, the Father has given Him authority to forgive sins. The Father has inherent authority while Jesus has given authority. Very big difference. If Jesus is God Himself, He shouldn't have needed the Father to forgive our sins.

Again, the verses cited above doesn't prove that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE TRUE GOD.

The Trinity still contradicts what Jesus has proclaimed that the Father alone is the one and only true God.

doesnt say it aint so either

Originally posted by Jury
Again, the verses cited above doesn't prove that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE TRUE GOD.

The Trinity still contradicts what Jesus has proclaimed that the Father alone is the one and only true God.



Well, Jesus said I and the Father are One....Meaning that we and the father/god are one also....we are one with It...Jesus was probably just telling us how it is......We're all connected...not separate.

"I and my Father are one" is a different case as of the Trinity.

Jesus has clarified why did He say "I and my Father are one". Well, He's not saying they're one of being God.

can be interpreted either way

The Bible was clear before Jesus said "I and my Father are one"... He was saying that His Father was caring for His flock.. and He also cares for God's flock... Hence, they are one of taking care for the flock. Not of being God.

again thats your view on it, others have different view on that subject and neither is more right or wrong...I know you gonna come with the gibberish about you are a true christian int he church of christ and the others are all wrong, forget it man your way is nothing but your way no more right than other`s view on this matter.

I'm just telling what the Bible is telling. It's not my own view. You can read it yourself.

so you take the entire bible literally?

The Bible is obvious about when it is telling literally or symbolically.

even so, the new testament can be interpreter diffrently than the wording............................and just as a curisosity do YOU feel the Adam and Eve stroy is a symbolic one

It doesn't depend on the interpreter. It's the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit taught us to believe that the accounts of Adam and Eve as recorded in the books of Moses happened literally.

it is translated manuscript where the "originals" is of questionable origin.

You don't believe in our God, so I'm not surprised with your opinon.

even christians have to question the context of the the originalyty of the gospels taken the fact that the 4 gospls was chosen among plenty of gospels.
Also just out of curiosity do you end Mark with 16:8 or do you recognise 16:9-20 (longer ending to the Marcan gospel)

The TRUE Christians do not question the authenticity and the originality of the Words of God written in the Bible, for the TRUTH in those Words was revealed to us by the Holy Spirit.

And as a True Christian and a servant to the Lord, we know which is the original and which is not. As long as it was "inspired" by God Himself... we don't question the origin of the Gospel.

blind faith in other words

yeah propagand sure does work good among and on the christians.


So when does Mark end?

I respect your opinion, fins.

so when does mark end?

We recognize the Gospel until Mark 16:20. If it ends only until Mark 16:8, it doesn''t matter.