Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

In the movies only, who has the capabilities of using Force Lightning? Is is just Sidious and Yoda. I can't remember if Yoda generated any of his own, or just deflected it. I don't remember Dooku or Vader ever being able to do it either.

Anyone else?

Dooku uses force lighting in EP II

Dooku clearly did it in AOTC.

Ok, haven't looked at in a while and couldn't remember. Vader never did, did he?

Nope. He needed real hands to do lightning.

Originally posted by matreid
Nope. He needed real hands to do lightning.



I hope you are joking

Originally posted by Robin Darkside


I hope you are joking



no

Lightning kills Vader. I'd have to say he doesn't do it.

Maul doesn't do it, I'm assuming he can't. He seemed like he was a better swordsman than Force-user.

Dooku does it, though Palpatine does it better.

Yoda does not actually create lightning, he just deflects it.

actually it makes sense, He would get electricuted if he transfers electricity through his metal hands

So, at this point we have established just Sidious and Dooku?

Yes, I believe that is all of them from the movies.

Thx

Anakin didn't have a chance to use lighting, he became mech vader too soon, after turning to the darkside

Plus...it is the lightning that seals Vader's fate. When he lifts up Palpatine, the lightning goes through him and destroys the inner workings of his suit, meaning he can't survive. If you seriously thought him losing a hand would kill him, get real!

I don't think maul could of used sith lightning. He was...too inexperienced.

Hurray for talking to yourself...

maybe Vader could generate lighting, without having it run through his system. Maybe he can generate it outside his fingers and travel where ever

I think once you become a high enough jedi you have the capabilities to use it, whether you do or not is left up to you..

The force.. mmmmm drool

very unlikly only Dukoo and Palps can use force lightning Maul had no time to learn he was more of hands on sword work not much of hand fighter and Vader no he can't cuz Grevious can't they both cyborgs
and no Jedi can use it they have to be on DS as far as the movies show

Nope! Vader would not and could not do it, unless he wanted to kill himself. Sith suicide.

And indeed, lightning is not a Jedi thing. It's a Sith secret, a powerful 'I'm gonna fry me some Jedi bacon!' trick.

Originally posted by green dude
very unlikly only Dukoo and Palps can use force lightning Maul had no time to learn he was more of hands on sword work not much of hand fighter and Vader no he can't cuz Grevious can't they both cyborgs
and no Jedi can use it they have to be on DS as far as the movies show


No time?! Are you mad? He was RAISED by palps. We never see him use force lightning but that doesn't mean he CAN'T :P

lighting kills vader

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
lighting kills vader

I was talking about Maul :P

Maul can use shit

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
Maul can use shit

that's your opinion.

Originally posted by Darth_Rankkor
that's your opinion.

yes, Maul was a rookie, Palpy didn't teach him yet. Maul was a duelist, not as knowledgable in the force

While we're at it, what about the Force choke? Did anyone BUT Vader use it in the 6 movies? I don't remember Sidious, Dooku, or Maul doing it...

No. Only Vader.

wtf, nobody knows anything.
Luke force choked the guards at Jabbas palace

That was force choke?confused1

yes, it probably killed them too, or maybe knocked them out.
proves that its not only a darkside power

Originally posted by matreid
That was force choke?confused1

It was. Look carefully, and you can see the guard putting a hand to his throat and looking like he's struggling to breath.

Originally posted by green dude
very unlikly only Dukoo and Palps can use force lightning Maul had no time to learn he was more of hands on sword work not much of hand fighter and Vader no he can't cuz Grevious can't they both cyborgs
and no Jedi can use it they have to be on DS as far as the movies show

Maul could use lightning but never did in the movies, AND he was immune to it. In the EU novel when he kills the leader of the Black Sun crime syndicate--his bodyguard was a Dathomir witch and attempted to kill him with Force lightning but he just laughed and then fried her. Remember, that unlike Vader and Dooku, he had been a Sith since infancy and therefore had all Sith abilities and no fiber of good in his soul.

Originally posted by matreid
That was force choke?confused1

WTF did you think it was?

I thought it was a Jedi mind trick, but I see now.

Luke did one of those backwards "I can control the dark and light side in me" tricks. So he was able to learn choke with out turning to the dark side.

I see. It was a very light, non-agressive force choke.

Luke did not Grip them, like Vader did. Momentarily stunned them.

And watch Revenge of the Sith! What do you think Dooku is doing to Obi-Wan that makes him float in the air gasping for breath?

And Maul did not know the Lightning trick. He was a deadly swordsman, not a powerful Force-user.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Luke did not Grip them, like Vader did. Momentarily stunned them.

And watch Revenge of the Sith! What do you think Dooku is doing to Obi-Wan that makes him float in the air gasping for breath?

And Maul did not know the Lightning trick. He was a deadly swordsman, not a powerful Force-user.

yes

I fully agree with all of your points.

Wow, that's the first time I've heard that in the Episode III section in a long time...

Thanks, Matreid.

Though, Luke's slight stun thing does look like a Grip, I must admit; they do reach for their throats. I suppose it isn't a purely evil power...though, depends on your use. If you use it to stun someone? Not evil. If you use it to kill someone by choking the life out of them or making their heart explode? Evil.

However, lightning doesn't work that way. Sith Lightning is a concentration of the user's hatred/anger/fear/etc., so can't be a Jedi thing.

Well, this is prolly an EU thing, but I read that Plo Koon can use lightning, and I heard that lightning was originally a light-side power. Maybe it's like the grip after all, just depends on how much 'umph' you put in it. Sidious only used a bit to torement luke, so if a jedi knew how to use it, he could use it to stun an enemy into submission rather than kill. I guess a dark sider once used it to kill and then everybody declares it a bad power.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Wow, that's the first time I've heard that in the Episode III section in a long time...

Thanks, Matreid.

Though, Luke's slight stun thing does look like a Grip, I must admit; they do reach for their throats. I suppose it isn't a purely evil power...though, depends on your use. If you use it to stun someone? Not evil. If you use it to kill someone by choking the life out of them or making their heart explode? Evil.

However, lightning doesn't work that way. Sith Lightning is a concentration of the user's hatred/anger/fear/etc., so can't be a Jedi thing.

Read the ROTJ book, yes Luke did use force grip on those Gammorreans, bit he didn't hold it long enough to be fatal just like when Vader force-choked that Grand Moff in ANH before Tarkin odered him to release him. The Jedi aint just relegated to passive/defensive powers, several Jedi in the history of the Order, such as Plo Koon had the ability known as "Jedi Fire" in which they use the Force to literally create fire out of thin air by exciting oxygen atoms. By the way, the Sith could also use the "Jedi" Mind Trick, and yes Maul could use Lightning.

EU

EU haters suck!

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
EU

excuses, excuses...

*Throws fists up and down and chants* EU ROCKS! EU ROCKS! WHO'S WITH ME!

You want us to, *gulp* support EU?

fear

The 5.6.7.8's are so awesome.

Only Dooku and Palpatine can use force lightning, all other is EU.

go to the EU section to discuss EU not here, read the *please read* at the top of these fourms.

btw, the majority of EU is crap.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Only Dooku and Palpatine can use force lightning, all other is EU.

go to the EU section to discuss EU not here, read the *please read* at the top of these fourms.

btw, the majority of EU is crap.

agree with you, I do

I read in the Episode III Visual Dictionary in the Darth Vader section that Anakin could have used force lighting with his left hand before he loses it against Obi-wan in the duel. However, at the same time, Anakin could not use either because he never had the chance to use. Also when Anakin becomes vader and wears the suit, he could not use it wither because like otehr said, it would short circuit his suit and he would die, like what happened in ROTJ.

yes, as i said. Dooku and Palpatine...

thats the only people who can use it.

i agree that if anakin hadent been vader-ized he would definitly be able to do it. but thats not what happens so he cant.

Thanks Robin and Anomaly. I thought I would avoid the EU by specifically saying "in the movies" in my original questions, but oh well...

I do not understand why people seem to think that EU is some kind of blasphemy. As long as it doesn't contradict anything from the movies, why shouldn't it be included? It adds to the SW 'universe', makes things deeper and more interesting.

I don't have a personal preference one way or the other on the EU thing, but I was specifically referring to the movies in my question. I'm not trying to be nasty, just honest

fu@ck EU.
Dave chappelle should be on you noobs

Originally posted by Ani's Girl
Thanks Robin and Anomaly. I thought I would avoid the EU by specifically saying "in the movies" in my original questions, but oh well...

Dont get me wrong.

Your welcome Ani girl, sweetheart, although

EU can s*ck my balls

Who's this Dave Chapelle everyone keeps referring to?

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
Who's this Dave Chapelle everyone keeps referring to?



Well, its ok DD, its just that there was a clip of Dave chapeelle emulating Rick James ( I'm Rick JamesB@itch!, haha), and during the episode, Dave (emulaing Rick James) went onto eddy's murphy's couch. brother got mad, and Rick James ( no respect) put his Fu*kin feet on the couch and disrespected him.

Thats whats funny, I never thought I had to explain.....I guess you have to see the chapelle show..

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
Your welcome Ani girl, sweetheart, although

EU can s*ck my balls

LOL. I have never seen any of the EU stuff.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I do not understand why people seem to think that EU is some kind of blasphemy. As long as it doesn't contradict anything from the movies, why shouldn't it be included? It adds to the SW 'universe', makes things deeper and more interesting.

Absolutely, it ties all the loose ends and answers all the unanswered questions, kinda like a spin-off series.

this forum has a last post within minutes of this one

i need to know something cause i havnt been on the forums a few months.

Who is the second global mod other than raz?

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Absolutely, it ties all the loose ends and answers all the unanswered questions, kinda like a spin-off series.

yeah, ties up the lose ends of your not imagination. Use your own mind. EU sucks cause someone other than Lucas worte it. Its like you writing a star wars novel, everyone is interested, its just the writers who take advantage of it

Originally posted by Ani's Girl
While we're at it, what about the Force choke? Did anyone BUT Vader use it in the 6 movies? I don't remember Sidious, Dooku, or Maul doing it...

Dooku uses it in ROTS when he kicks ani away

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
yeah, ties up the lose ends of your not imagination. Use your own mind. EU sucks cause someone other than Lucas worte it. Its like you writing a star wars novel, everyone is interested, its just the writers who take advantage of it

So what?? Someone has to write it to explain shit. There aint gonna be subtitles, captions, pop-ups, or whatever-became-of's during the movie. During ROTS there's not gonna be subtitle that says "Ki-Adi-Mundi had a second heart in his skull to nourish his large brain which explains his large cranuim." There has to be authors for that. 'Naw mean??

ha, long term people suck, only cause they don know shit.
Please, prove me wrong

Originally posted by matreid
Nope. He needed real hands to do lightning.

I think Vader can only do Force Choke.

Long term people?, whaddayu talking about ? Just sayin that EU is vital for further explanation, u dont like it that's cool, but it's necessary. I know it's easier to watch a movie than read a book, but info is info.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
So what?? Someone has to write it to explain shit. There aint gonna be subtitles, captions, pop-ups, or whatever-became-of's during the movie. During ROTS there's not gonna be subtitle that says "Ki-Adi-Mundi had a second heart in his skull to nourish his large brain which explains his large cranuim." There has to be authors for that. 'Naw mean??

I dont know EU, only cause I want, but, wtf, a Jedi craves not these tings? a Jedi, is a person who takes on respnosibility, and tries his best to support the senate.

When people come out of control, or are weak, they show weaknesss (not like americans, fellow democrats), wouldn;t this world work easier with, an EMPIRE, Liberal shit will be out the door, our perception of things only dwells, on what we are broughten to learn.

men can not be trusted

Define long-term people. That could be used as reference to senior citizens. Duh!

Whoever started raving about the EU...well...George Lucas did not write the EU stuff! As fun as it may be to read EU and write EU, it actually has nothing to do with the movies unless George wrote it. And if George wrote it/said it, it ain't EU.

Sidious didn't use Lightning to 'torment' Luke. He was using it to KILL Luke. Otherwise, Luke would have been sitting there for awhile going "Ow...Ow...Ow..." rather than "Oh shit! Daddy, help, I'm being fried like a crispy bacon Jedi hamburger at Carl's Jr!"

Jedi can't use Lightning. The definition of the Sith Lightning stuff is 'a concentration of hatred/anger turned into painful energy' or something similar.

Jedi can use Grip. Luke used the choking trick, but didn't use it to slaughter those two Gamorreans. Just enough to startle them and get them to back off. Sith use to the crush things...and not just windpipes.

I agree with Robin Darkside, EU is crap. granted there are a few good books, but in general EU is crap.

the writers take things too far and it takes away from certain aspects of the movies.

like in EU exar kun is the strongest sith ever. in the movies Palpatine is the strongest sith ever.

if you take EU and add it as being equal to the movies when you see palpatine you think, hes ok, but not the best. but lucas had intended for you to think "ohh shit this guys the most badass sith lord, these jedi are screwed"

this happens in a lot of EU, and thats what bothers me about it. IF a book or a game does not take away anything from the movies and only adds to it then i have no problem with it. like the EU book "The New Rebellion" this book is awesome because its true to the movies. amazingly true to the movies. games like KOTOR are not true to the movies when they have insanely powerful sith lords who can "destroy the force" and all this crap. it takes away from Anakin and the prophecy and it takes away from palpatine etc. etc.

i could go on and on but i dont want too.

Exar Kun wasn't the strongest ever, though, neither was Palpatine; both were the strongest of his time, as was Darth Bane.

But yes, EU does take things too far. Force Storms? Jedi using Lightning, making freezing rays, or Dark Jedi conjuring lasers from their palms?

Agreed, EU ruins the power heirarchy that Lucas has spent a half his life developing. When you see Yoda, you are supposed to think he is the strongest Jedi of all time. You aren't supposed to think, ya he's alright for movie times, but in ancient times he would have got his ass handed to him. And anomoly, your right about palps too. When we see him on screen, we are supposed to think there has been nothing like him. No sith power as dark or as powerful as him. But all we hear is, ya he's good, but Reven or Kun or the exile would destroy him in a second.

This is why I hate EU. I don't feel I can be a true fan of the movies, and also enjoy the EU. Everytime I read something, i'm always saying, WHATEVER !!! that's not how it would be at all...


Anyway, Vader CAN use force lightning. He just doesn't in the movies. He is more of a force choke man.

It's like, I really need a chick with a nice ass. Does that mean I can't appreciate a nice set of t1ts? No.

Vader loves the force choke, but if it came down to it, he could use lightning if he wanted too. His fake hands have nothing to do with it. It's external, not internal.

Originally posted by Vanquish
Agreed, EU ruins the power heirarchy that Lucas has spent a half his life developing. When you see Yoda, you are supposed to think he is the strongest Jedi of all time. You aren't supposed to think, ya he's alright for movie times, but in ancient times he would have got his ass handed to him. And anomoly, your right about palps too. When we see him on screen, we are supposed to think there has been nothing like him. No sith power as dark or as powerful as him. But all we hear is, ya he's good, but Reven or Kun or the exile would destroy him in a second.

This is why I hate EU. I don't feel I can be a true fan of the movies, and also enjoy the EU. Everytime I read something, i'm always saying, WHATEVER !!! that's not how it would be at all...


Anyway, Vader CAN use force lightning. He just doesn't in the movies. He is more of a force choke man.

It's like, I really need a chick with a nice ass. Does that mean I can't appreciate a nice set of t1ts? No.

Vader loves the force choke, but if it came down to it, he could use lightning if he wanted too. His fake hands have nothing to do with it. It's external, not internal.

yes, reading EU is all good, entertainment wise, just dont take it to heart from what the movies show us and Lucas's perspective

An interesting concept indeed. As far as I am aware, only the dark side may use what is deemed 'Sith Lightning'. I have not heard of the Jedi being able to conjure it ; 'The Jedi possess no exact equivalent to sucha dark use of the force' (Episode 2 Visual Dictionary). There are few Jedi who can reflect Sith Lightning wihtout the aid of a lightsabre. Windu showed this in Ep3. I believe only Yoda is able to deflect sith lihgtning using his hands.

Dooku's was not as experienced with Sithlihgtning as Sidious. Remember, Sidious' main stranght was his lightning. He seldom used his lightsabre, especially as he aged. As Anakin, perhaps lightingn would have been a possibility. As Vader, absoluetly not. He cannot conjure it, nor 'is he invulnerable towards it'. It was a gift of the Sith. A dark use of the force only.

Vanquish, he'd still fry himself. It comes from the finger tips...which he has metal ones that are wired to the rest of his metal suit, so he would be one cooked Sith Lord if he even tried.

Anakin's lightning would have been just plain scary, if he had ever become skilled with it. All that hate... *twitch*

Nah, I think force lightning is external. Unless it is actually shot at someone, there is no danger to the user. Sids and Dooku don't have to worry about blocking their own lightning when they shoot it because it never touches them. If it was an internal skill that is conjured and somehow absorbed through the fingers, then wouldn't those two guys hurt themselves when they shoot it, or at least have to waste force energy blocking it?

Nah, vader could shoot it out of his own hands and it would never interfere with his own suit. He is only in danger if someone else shoots it at him, or if his own is reflected back. The reason he got hurt in ROTJ is because he grabbed on to palps and got fried.

Originally posted by Vanquish
Nah, I think force lightning is external. Unless it is actually shot at someone, there is no danger to the user. Sids and Dooku don't have to worry about blocking their own lightning when they shoot it because it never touches them. If it was an internal skill that is conjured and somehow absorbed through the fingers, then wouldn't those two guys hurt themselves when they shoot it, or at least have to waste force energy blocking it?

Nah, vader could shoot it out of his own hands and it would never interfere with his own suit. He is only in danger if someone else shoots it at him, or if his own is reflected back. The reason he got hurt in ROTJ is because he grabbed on to palps and got fried.

I agree. I also add that the EU is not crap. if we satisfy ourselves with only the movies then we would die of thirst :P

Vader can't conjure lightning! Sids and Dooku both have actual flesh and bone hands, Vader is the walking lightning rod with two mechanical hands! He couldn't and shouldn't and wouldn't, because it would be the end of him.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Vader can't conjure lightning! Sids and Dooku both have actual flesh and bone hands, Vader is the walking lightning rod with two mechanical hands! He couldn't and shouldn't and wouldn't, because it would be the end of him.

The walking lightning rod is MY quote

Anyway, no, Vader would not be able to do lightning. He'd make himself crispier than he already is.

So?

And exactly my point. He'd be sending lightning out of the stubs of his arms, and said lightning would channel through his mechanical arms to the rest of his suit...

No, the lightning would never touch him. It is conjured up from outside his fingertips. I said it before and I'll say it again, palps could probably shoot the lightning out of his dik if he wanted too. The act of using fingers is just for simplicity and show. It's external, and has nothing to do with body or fingers.


About the EU discussion:

I don't mind EU I guess for fun reading, but I just can't stand all the extremes they go to. I would buy it no problem if they made the guys in it slightly better, or embelished it a bit. But all this crap about destroying stars, creating black holes, feeding off force energy, and affecting galaxies and shit is just plain rediculous.

I like it a lot better when Jedi's and Siths are only as powerful as they appear to be in the movies. Especially when you factor in the OT. Jedi's and Siths weren't actually that much better then regular people in the old movies. No massive jumping, no super speed running, no holding breath for minutes at a time, no super resiliant bodies or acrobatics. Granted, it's because of movie making technology but still. No mention of any of that, and no hint of it in any of the movies at all. Now all of a sudden all these Ancient and future Jedi's and Siths can do all that? How come the current movie time ones can't? did those powers skip a 1000 years? Please...

We have to remember the movies that made us all fans in the first place, and stay true somewhat to what they set out. There are certain unwritten guidelines in star wars I beleive, and many EU storylines go way past them IMO.

The

Lightning

would

COOK

Vader.

It may be external, but where is he going to conjure it from? The Force does not run through metal or cybernetic limbs, it would be conjured from his stubs, where the false limbs are attached. So, it would go through the limbs and go through him.

Regarding EU, I don't mind the less drastic stories. It's the ones where they are destroying stars and giving Jedi powers that are less believable that get boring.

Rex is right, the lightning would go back into his suit and screw up his breathing system.

Funny, I thought it was a discussion that had no definitive answer, which is why we discuss it... Does rex also know the answer to the cosmic riddle of abortion? j/k'ing, but you see my point. Anyway...

So you both are saying that in fact, it is internal, and that when palps and Dooku shoot the force lightning, they also have to block it from hitting themselves when they do it? So they block and shoot at the same time?

Interesting, since obviously palps couldn't do both when windu redirected it back to palps. If it was so easy for them to block it while shooting it, doesn't it stand to reason that palps would have used the same trick in the windu duel, and he would not have been hit with his own lightning?

I still see it as an external thing, that never touches the body of the person shooting it. It's like a force push. Has absolutely nothing to do with the person pushing. No strength physically of any kind is needed. You are simply pushing the force. Same as lightning imo

Originally posted by Vanquish
Funny, I thought it was a discussion that had no definitive answer, which is why we discuss it... Does rex also know the answer to the cosmic riddle of abortion? j/k'ing, but you see my point. Anyway...

So you both are saying that in fact, it is internal, and that when palps and Dooku shoot the force lightning, they also have to block it from hitting themselves when they do it? So they block and shoot at the same time?

Interesting, since obviously palps couldn't do both when windu redirected it back to palps. If it was so easy for them to block it while shooting it, doesn't it stand to reason that palps would have used the same trick in the windu duel, and he would not have been hit with his own lightning?

I still see it as an external thing, that never touches the body of the person shooting it. It's like a force push. Has absolutely nothing to do with the person pushing. No strength physically of any kind is needed. You are simply pushing the force. Same as lightning imo

I was only talking about the Vader using lightning argument. Didnt that visual dictionary or whatever say that?

Originally posted by Ast Rofan
I was only talking about the Vader using lightning argument. Didnt that visual dictionary or whatever say that?

Yah, I previously read the Visual Dictionary and it did say that. Also, I was reading the Revenge of the Sith novel and after Palpatine finds Anakin on Mustafar he is thinking about the fact that Vader could never use lightning because it takes real arms to create(or something like that).

Captain REX. Where does it ever show Vader dieing by Lightning. It was the fact that he took off his helmet which lets him BREATH to look upon Luke with his own eyes. What movie you watching?

Originally posted by Lord DarqueLand
Captain REX. Where does it ever show Vader dieing by Lightning. It was the fact that he took off his helmet which lets him BREATH to look upon Luke with his own eyes. What movie you watching?

Luke-"But you will die"

Vader-"Nothing can stop that now."



Vader knew he was dying, the lightning ****ed with his breathing, you could hear how he couldnt breathe right.

The force lightning definately did him in I concur.

It could have been Luke's fault. The way he fought against Vader would have killed any robotic system. Really we have no proof it was the lightning, for it might even have been a heart attack from being on a place about to blow up. We dont know

lighting did not kill vader taking off his mask killed

Originally posted by sith god
lighting did not kill vader taking off his mask killed

No

It was really two things: firstly he had lost his arm. His breathing was heavily impaired by that (as could be heard). This would have had to be rectified at a later date. Clearly the Sith Lightning impacted him heavily. Vader felt the FULL power of the Dark Side. Sidious was using all his power to kill Luke. 'Nothing can stop that now' was said before his mask was removed. He was dying anyway. Clearly by taking off the mask he would die. But the Sith Lightning killed him never the less

Any highly skilled Force user can do the Force Lightning ability. Jedi just choose not to because they, as said before, try not to use it as attack, only for defense instead. Just about everyone could use it, I would assume, but someone like Palpatine is more powerful. Obviously a Padawan wouldn't be able to use it...those younglings aren't shooting it out to protect themselves....though that'd be funny to watch lol

If Vader took his helmet off could he shoot lightning out of his forehead?
If vader completley turned his arm into a rubber arm could he then use it to shoot lightning with?

Also with EU. Yes the games and some other stuff are bringing it to far, but I think some EU products should be made official if approved by lucas and all. Like thie visual dictionary that should be official. The clone war novels should be officialized.

Vader cant use lightning, if you say he does, that the whole End of ROTJ goes out the door....

Originally posted by Ast Rofan
Rex is right, the lightning would go back into his suit and screw up his breathing system.
If the lightning went back into his suit and screwed up his breathing system it's because his suit was set up to channel electricity from his stubs to his breathing system.

Really we can't completely say what killed Vader. Because for all you know it might be he started crying and it short-circuited his suit.

Originally posted by Lord DarqueLand
Really we can't completely say what killed Vader. Because for all you know it might be he started crying and it short-circuited his suit.

yes, thats what I thought before, not this electricity theory stuff.

Vader uses lightning in the book 'Splinter of the minds eye'

shouldn'ta said that. Your gonna get hounded by the
EU KILLERS

Hows he use it though like on who?

Nah vader can use SITH LIGHTNING
but he cant use it without short circuiting himself.

Couldn't he shoot it out of his forehead?

I like EU
And he uses it on LUKE

i like EU as well i haven read many star wars books. Like i said before i beleive some should be officialized.

I believe that too, Lucasfilm needs to get every EU resource out there and make a list that says it is official canon. And I wouldn't mind if they did some changes in some of the EU.

Stealth Agent......What the heck is up with this "Couldn't he shoot it out of his forehead?" I mean really, His Helmet is just as robotic as his hands. So if you saying he uses it from his hands and hurts himself, he still get hurt through his forehead. I still think that Lightning didn't really kill Vader. WE WILL NEVER KNOW!!!!! IT COULD HAVE BEEN LUKE! IT COULD HAVE BEEN A HEART ATTACK!! IT EVEN COULD HAVE BEEN A SLIGHT MALFUNCTION!

Doesn't really matter if you like EU or not, it doesn't change the fact that it's not canon unless Lucas specifically says so.

For those that say taking off his helmet killed Vader...remember these lines?

"But you'll die!"
"It is too late for that now..."

Vader was dying BEFORE he removed his helmet.

I swear, I honestly wonder sometimes if people have even seen the movies.

Taking off the helmet didn't kill Vader for sure. It helped him breathing kinda, cause after being burned by lava and get your limbs cut off, you can have asthma and that stuff . But I'm sure Vader could survive breathing for atleast sometime without the helmet. The lightning will fry him for sure, lots of his limbs are mechanical and if his suit gets broken or fried, than it's over for him.

...

Time for Rex to go trouble-shooting! *grabs shotgun*

The lightning didn't kill Vader, taking off his mask did! - Wrong! The mask was useless after Palps unleashed that lightning he was putting into Luke into Vader. Mass amounts of destructive electricity + life support system = useless life support system = dead user of life support system. How the hell would chopping off Vader's hand put an end to his life? His hand wasn't even real!

Vader can use lightning, of course! He's evil! - Nope! Wrong again! The Visual Dictionary and the novelization of Episode III stated that Vader would not be using lightning because he lost both his arms. The Force needs human flesh to be able to conjur Force pushes and such. Vader clenches his fist when strangling the Imperial officer in ANH...but its not the robotic hand that's manipulating the Force. Vader is doing it mentally, and from his stub. This may be EU, but in the newer Clone Wars episodes, Anakin loses his false hand, yet still strangles the life out of several Techno Union executives with his stub.

Pfft, just because his hands would be fried by lightning doesn't mean he'd fry the rest of himself! - Wrong! Metal = conductor of electricity = Hands. Lightning = lots of electricity. Vader's suit = metal. Hands(Vader's Suit + Lightning) = Life Support Screwed. The Lightning would go all over his body because the metal would conduct it.

Originally posted by jango fat
Vader uses lightning in the book 'Splinter of the minds eye'

Just to finish off my trouble-shooting...

Splinter of the Mind's Eye was not written by George Lucas. It also introduces the Kaiburr Crystal, which is very much a pain in the ass, since people like to tell me that it's a source of Palpatine's power. Oi!

Which just goes to show...

EU = NOT canon = no bearing on the storyline!!!

Sheesh, remember how people flipped when all the pics of Wookiees and Kashyyyk were originally released/leaked from ROTS because it didn't match the EU descriptions?

Not really. I thought it all worked quite well. Maybe it was just because suddenly Kashyyyk had beaches...but who flippin' cares? All planets have water, unless you're on Tatooine or Mustafar...but neither Tatooine or Mustafar have really tall trees...

Ahh....well, people were literally pitching fits over it. It was so stupid

Wooo? I didn't come in here for the early bickering...

Theres no point in arguing over this really. Noone wins here.

Force lightning does'nt have the same limitation or rules as normal electricity. If it did, Mace Windu would'nt have been able to block/deflect force lightning with his saber. You can't block electricity with light. Besides electricity always runs through the first conductor that leads to ground. In that case any who uses lightning can't use it without electrocuting themselves.

I just can't get away from the line of thinking that if the force lightning was dangerous to the user in any way, then it would also hurt Palps and Dooku when they use it. In the movies, we see that Yoda can block it with his hands, but it does require quite a bit of effort to do so. That being said, since he is at least close to force powers as palps, and greater then dooku, it would probably also take those two guys quite a bit of energy to block it.

So if they have to block their own while they shoot it, we would notice the effort. We don't at all. They shoot it with no exertion what so ever. They don't have to block it when they shoot. It simply leaves their body with no hint of them blocking it, or protecting themselves from it. Which leads me to believe that force lightning is totally external, and never touches the body of the person shooting it.

So Vader could do it just like the other two with no risk to himself at all. Conjure up the force lightning, using the force, totally externally to his own body. Of course he would have major problems if he was shot by the lightning or if it was directed to his body like in ROTJ, but I see no reason why he couldn't shoot it himself.

Jerlark, you can't block ANYTHING with light. Lightsabers are not just light. If they were, they wouldn't be weapons. They'd be colored flashlights.

I don't really see why you bother using Dooku and Palpatine as examples, or even Yoda. They're not in massive suits of armor with life support systems in them.

External to his body does not at all mean external to his suit, though. That's the thing. The lightning would not be conjured at a distance from his stub. It would be conjured FROM the stub. It's not a matter of the lightning hurting Vader's physical form. It's a matter of screwing up his damned suit! Now, if he didn't have his mechanical hands, and was just stubs, he would maybe be able to learn the lightning trick. But hands to wield a lightsaber with are more useful than lightning. The hands are in the way, so the lightning would jump through the hands and then begin to short-circuit his system by traveling through the wiring.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Jerlark, you can't block ANYTHING with light. Lightsabers are not just light. If they were, they wouldn't be weapons. They'd be colored flashlights.

They sure look a lot like colored flashlights to me. And who says you can't turn light into a weapon. Light energy/radiation can be harnessed and easily turned into a weapon.
But really It does'nt matter what it is, the saber or Windu should have been fried.


Originally posted by Captain REX
I don't really see why you bother using Dooku and Palpatine as examples, or even Yoda. They're not in massive suits of armor with life support systems in them.


I refer to them, because they all had the either had the ability to conjure or deflect lightning. If the force can absorb or deflect force lightning, then it should be possible for Vader to protect his suit using the force.

Originally posted by Captain REX
External to his body does not at all mean external to his suit, though. That's the thing. The lightning would not be conjured at a distance from his stub. It would be conjured FROM the stub. It's not a matter of the lightning hurting Vader's physical form. It's a matter of screwing up his damned suit! Now, if he didn't have his mechanical hands, and was just stubs, he would maybe be able to learn the lightning trick. But hands to wield a lightsaber with are more useful than lightning. The hands are in the way, so the lightning would jump through the hands and then begin to short-circuit his system by traveling through the wiring.

If the technology exists to create such a life-sustaining suit, then a couple of protective measures for it should be no problem. Since a saber can mysteriously asorb sith lightning then incorporate the same idea into the suit. Put a reverse polarity field on the suit, a ground, even a simple circuit breaker would do. Something. In a world where ships can travel faster than light, nothing I mention is impossible or improbable. Am I just crazy here?

'They sure look a lot like colored flashlights to me. And who says you can't turn light into a weapon. Light energy/radiation can be harnessed and easily turned into a weapon.'

The problem is that if the blades were only light, they would pass through each other. A lightsabre blade is a plasma stream plus a magnetic field that gives it a defined length. The magnetic field is why two blades can hit each other.

Logic = Vader should be able to use Force Lightning. There is no real physical reason why he can't. I've outlined this in my posts before, as have others.

Reality = Vader get's royally screwed by force lightning. He's perfectly fine until Palpatine sends the lightning through him.

I really do wish Dooku didn't use force lightning to be honest. It would have been cool if only Palpatine could do it. But meh, there ya go.

Note: We must also remember that lucas likes to make up shit as he goes along. In the OT, Palpatine lacked a saber, but had lightning. It was a way to show how much more evil Palpatine was to Vader (as Lucas has stated before) - he was a demonic sorcerer. The lightning was Palpatines trump card. A witherred, old, fragile and defenseless man suddenly strikes you down at will with God-like smiting powers. This the main reason why I was confused as to why Lucas allowed lightning to be a standard Sith Master power - it took some of the edge away from Palpatine.

The reason we don't see Vader do it at all is merely because Lucas hadn't plucked that particular idea of his hat when he made ANH and ESB. The rationale is that Vader cannot do it, but the real reason, like pretty much everything else, is that the idea simply wasn't there until ROTJ.

We must remmember that these are only films, and theres only so much you can rationalise before you have to sit back and say "he just didn't think of it back then".

I myself thing that lightning would hurt Vader.

Look at this from this point, you can use force from only your own particles off body, correct? Organic. Vader has gloves on, the gloves I bet have some circuits in them which lead all the way throughotu the suit. If he used Lightning, it would escape the gloves to your opponent, but would also short curcuit the gloves which would sent the electricity thorughout the suit, getting the same effects as the glove.

Vader blocked Hans Blaster fire with his bare hand, I think he could come up with a way to shoot force lightning. But hey, all those who say he can't do it cause he would get short circuited, also must admit that Vader is the biggest fuking b1tch Sith of all time.

Think about it. If you guys all think that he would die so quickly from any lightning that comes anywhere near him, wouldn't that mean that any Sith in the history of the galaxy could beat vader in a duel in about 1 second. Shit, even fuking children Sith could beat him. Problably even darth maul could have beat vader when he was 10 years old.

And to take it one step further. If you guys think vader is that pathetic towards lightning, doesn't it stand to reason that you also believe that any half ass human with no force powers what so ever could hand vader his ass, as long as they electocute him? LOL, funny concept.

Vader, being punked by anything and everyone with any sort of electricity what so ever. Throw an electric eel on him and boom, dead vader.

Vader could protect himself from lightning, like Yoda did to Count Dooku's lightning or like Mace did to Sid's lightning. If Vader could do force lightning without getting electrified, why would he use Force Grip on the people which piss him off? Like his commanders?? When done Lightning it is more enjoyable since you hear your enemy scream and stuff. So there would be no point of doing Force Grip if he could do Force Lightning

Force choke is instantly cooler than lightning anyway.

The fact he could just stare at you (even via a TV screen) and you'll begin to die is pretty amazing.

I don't think we've ever seen a Sith demonstrate such long-range killing. Being suffocated is terrifying.

Vader just has to see you and, you're dead.

Lightning doesn't suit Vader anyway, the force choke suits his character. The whole lack-of-breath and choking motif is a Vader speciality.

As for repelling lightning, yes he can. He was a little pre-occupied with trying to force Palpatine over the edge of the shaft, he couldn't just stick his hand out and diffuse the lightning. And as for children Sith and Darth Maul taking out Vader, they can't do lightning.

And Superfly saves the day...or so I hope...

I agree, suffocating is much more terrifying. Lightning is just painful.

Again, you are assuming a lot when you say that Maul and other Siths in training can't do lightning. I personally believe that just because someone didn't do something in the movies, doesn't mean they can't. You don't think that an ENTIRE LIFETIME of sith training under palpatine, and a lot of rage didn't allow Darth Maul to learn lightning? Come on, he was trained since birth basically.

Just because he doesn't use it in the movies, doesn't mean he can't use it. Personally, I only saw Qui gon and Obi wan do that Dialosis thing where they hold their breath for a long ass time in that gased room. Does that mean they are the only two that can do it? You think Yoda can't do it? Please...

Of course Maul can do lightning. He just chooses to saber battle because it is his specialty.

For Maul, it's a matter of how well he is connected to the Force. He strikes me as being a better swordsman than Force-user, whereas Dooku balances out. And we never see Maul do lightning in anything outside of the movies anyway...

What the hell is dialosis? Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan just hold their breath for a good amount of time, I'm sure all Jedi/Sith can. That's completely irrelevant.

i think that there are different types of Jedi and sith.

by that i mean that there are people who ROCK with their sabers (Mace and Maul) and are mid level in the force.

Those like Yoda and Sidious who are Crazy high level with force and mid-high with sabers.

And the medium people like Dooku and Anakin and Obi-Wan.

As for force lightning in battle it can be relatively easy to deflect with a lightsaber as Obi-Wan and Mace demonstrated (tho i think mace got hit by some of it)

It's not so much a question of who can perform force lightning. The Sith are all capable of conjuring sith lightning. Lord Vader cannot perform Sith lightning for obvious reasons. There is nothing saying Maul was not able to utilise sith lightning. THere are two possibilities: he was so engaged with two jedi that he didn't have the opportunity or that he was too young and lacking the experience to conjure sith lightning. Remember the ages of Dooku and Sidious. Not young, are they?

It is reasonable to say all Sith would be able to use sith lightning.

poo

Originally posted by Vanquish
Again, you are assuming a lot when you say that Maul and other Siths in training can't do lightning. I personally believe that just because someone didn't do something in the movies, doesn't mean they can't. You don't think that an ENTIRE LIFETIME of sith training under palpatine, and a lot of rage didn't allow Darth Maul to learn lightning? Come on, he was trained since birth basically.

Just because he doesn't use it in the movies, doesn't mean he can't use it. Personally, I only saw Qui gon and Obi wan do that Dialosis thing where they hold their breath for a long ass time in that gased room. Does that mean they are the only two that can do it? You think Yoda can't do it? Please...

Of course Maul can do lightning. He just chooses to saber battle because it is his specialty.

You assume too much

Maul didn't perform lightning, so he can't do it.

Yeah, anything Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon can do, Yoda can. He's generally regarded at a higher level, and is ranked higher. There really is no logic behind what you are saying there. Yoda can do everything his apprentices can do. Saying Maul can do anything his masters can do is completely different and in no way can you use that as a valid basis of an arguement.

Was Maul ever ranked higher than Dooku or Palpatine? No, he wasn't. We didn't see lightning so it's obvious he couldn't do it.

The "lifetime of rage" thing is also irrelevant. Obi-Wan, according to the same (EU) source as Mauls profile, had a life completely the opposite of Maul. Does that mean he can diffuse lightning with his hand like Yoda? No, because we saw him diffuse it with his saber. Maul can't conjure shit.

"Maul can't conjure shit"????? How do you know? Jus cuz he didn't do it in the movie doesn't mean a damn thing. And Yoda could not do everything his suboordinates could. He couldn't read minds like Saesee Tiin or alter his surrounding climate like Plo Koon. Like I said, how do you know he can't?

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
"Maul can't conjure shit"????? How do you know? Jus cuz he didn't do it in the movie doesn't mean a damn thing. And Yoda could not do everything his suboordinates could. He couldn't read minds like Saesee Tiin or alter his surrounding climate like Plo Koon. Like I said, how do you know he can't?

Because you talk nonsense, that's why.

EU, EU, EU. Maul can't conjure shit because, well, he can't. If Lucas wanted to make a point of letting us know what Maul can do, he would have put it in the movie. Maul had plenty of opportunities to do lightning (especially just before Obi-Wan jumps out of the pit and he gets chopped in half) but he didn't. That's a big tick in the "can't do lightning" box.

And WTF? Plo Koon alterring the climate? Saesee Tinn reading minds? Next you'll be telling me Ki Adi Mundi could teleport and Mace Windu had fire powers. This isn't the X-Men.

And if you even mention Plo Koons yellow lightsaber I'll shove it where the sun don't shine.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
And WTF? Plo Koon alterring the climate? Saesee Tinn reading minds?

It's true. And of course the movies aint gonna show EVERYTHING a character is capable of. Maul kept his Sith powers latent and let his sabres do all the talkin.

Ya it's astonishing that some people (obviously superfly is one of them) think that just because someone doesn't use a certain skill in the moive, then they don't have the ability. That's just plain stupid.

So maul and the rest of the characters are only capable of doing the things they displayed in the movies? Maul isn't capable of anything else we didn't see? You don't think maul can use the force to pick up anything heavier then a droid head? You don't think maul can force choke someone? You don't think that maul can stop force lightning with his saber? For that matter, you don't think Yoda can stop lightning with his saber? He used his hand only in the movies, does that mean he can ONLY use his hand? Never learned how to use his saber? Do you think that only obi and qui gon know how to run fast like they did in TPM? Only those two did it, so I guess only those two can do it huh? No other jedi or Sith can apparently. Oh ya, Windu can't move anything with the force apparently, not even a pebble. He didn't in the movies, so he can't. Luke could when he isn't even a jedi knight yet, but Windu can't because he didn't in the movies. I never saw Palps block one single shot from a blaster in a movie. I guess he doesn't know how. He's super powerful, but if he gets shot by a blaster JUST ONCE, he'd dead because he clearly doesn't have that skill. I never saw Windu pilot anything in any of the movies. I guess that means he doesn't have his galactic drivers license huh, or he just plain doesn't know how. I don't recall seeing Plo koon do anything at all in the movies other then fly, and die. I guess that means he was a normal guy, no force powers, doesn't even own a saber. I never saw his saber in the movies, I guess he doesn't own one...

SHALL I GO ON, or do you kind of understand by now? I never saw any of the Jedi's take a shit either. I guess they don't know how yet...

We're not getting anywhere here.

You can believe in your X-Men theory and I'll believe in my canon theory, and leave it at that.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Next you'll be telling me Ki Adi Mundi could teleport and Mace Windu had fire powers. This isn't the X-Men.

Why r u being a wise-ass, dawg? You didn't create the Darth Maul character, so ur guess about his capabilities are as good as anyone's.

Originally posted by Vanquish


SHALL I GO ON, or do you kind of understand by now? I never saw any of the Jedi's take a shit either. I guess they don't know how yet...

Again, you jump in without checking how deep the water is.

We know the likes of the Jedi Masters and Palpatine can do certain things because they have proven to do even greater things. We can assume, therefore, that anything that is less demanding than thier on-screen antics is well within their repertoire.

Maul wasn't even as good as borderline-Knight-Obi-Wan. We never saw Maul do anything more than the odd force push. We didn't see him do anything that would indicate he was at a lightning throwing level or beyond.

Face it, Maul was just an apprentice thug and a Padawan beat him. He may have been good but he couldn't do lightning.

I just think logic says it all. Darth Maul is a true Sith, trained since birth basically, by palpatine. Dooku, is just a Dark Jedi, who really didn't turn dark until 10 years previous to the movies. Maul has more training, more sith specific training, and he was trained by the Sith Lord himself.

Plus, Maul beat Qui Gon, who is widely accepted as a KICK ASS POWERFUL Jedi. I think Mauls credentials speak for themselves when he manhandled Qui gon and Obi wan at the same time. Ya he fuked up in the end and died, but no doubt, he fuking man handled those two like they were girls.

If Dooku can do lightning, so can Maul. He simply didn't in the movies. If you still don't understand this concept, refer to my above post making fun of your lunacy two posts up

Well put, Vanquish

i would agree with red fly untili see vanquish post
s

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Why r u being a wise-ass, dawg? You didn't create the Darth Maul character, so ur guess about his capabilities are as good as anyone's.

No, I didn't. But so far I have based my opinions on evidence. Evidence that Lucas himself has presented to us.

You have based your opinions on nothing more than conjecture.

It's fun to speculate. I do it all the time, but the only thing that is ever true is that Lucas hasn't shown or told us that Maul can do lightning, so I'm going to stick to that.

EU stories, video games, visual dictionaries, the cartoons and all that other stuff may lead you believe these characters are superheroes, but as far as the movies go, Darth Maul was a punk who got beat by a Padawan, and when he could have frazzled Obi-Wan he didn't, he just stood there with a stupid mug, so it's obvious he can't do it.

yeah in all fairness he was a padawan himself` ......i think if he cud frce lghtnin then he wud have tryed it in the movie ,,,,,,,,

Why would he have tried it? He totally OWNED the jedi's AT ONCE. At no time was he in any danger what so ever of losing the fight. He was toying with them. Qui gon is a seriously powerful Jedi, and Obi wan was no punk. Maul destroyed them both. Just because his arrogance cost him his life, doesn't mean he is any less powerful.

The lack of him using all his force powers just showcases his power actually. If he was weaker then he was, probably he would have had to use the lightning or the other force powers to try to win the duel. But he was so much fuking stronger then both of them at once, that he didn't even have too.

The fact remains, he was a Sith trained from birth by Palps himself. There is nothing in any of the movies that leads me to believe that he didn't posess the full arsenal of Sith powers. Well trained, full of rage, has a great teacher, and lots of time to learn anything he needed.

Of course he could use lightning. He just didn't have too.

I completely support Red Superfly's rants, because they completely support my own, and add to them.

It doesn't matter how long Darth Maul or Darth Tyranus were trained. Dooku is obviously a Sith, because he fries Anakin and tries to fry Obi-Wan and Yoda.

And just because Qui-Gon is a powerful Jedi Master, doesn't mean he can keep up with Maul. He was wearing out; even Jedi get tired, you know!

Dooku was more powerful than Maul, and also more skilled.

The TPM duel lasted a lot longer than the AOTC duel, as well. Maul may have man-handled Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to your view...though, I must note, he was retreating most of the time...but Dooku man-handled them even faster. And you know what? Skills with a lightsaber matter shit to skills with the Force. Maul hasn't shown anything other than Force pushing every once and awhile, while Dooku toasted Anakin for a few moments.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
"Maul can't conjure shit"????? How do you know? Jus cuz he didn't do it in the movie doesn't mean a damn thing. And Yoda could not do everything his suboordinates could. He couldn't read minds like Saesee Tiin or alter his surrounding climate like Plo Koon. Like I said, how do you know he can't?

And Diamond? Don't bring EU powers into this. Plo Koon could also make Ice bolts, and Ki-Adi-Mundi could make things explode, and yatta yatta yatta who cares?! It's EU, and completely irrelevant to the conversation.

Originally posted by Vanquish
Why would he have tried it? He totally OWNED the jedi's AT ONCE. At no time was he in any danger what so ever of losing the fight. He was toying with them. Qui gon is a seriously powerful Jedi, and Obi wan was no punk. Maul destroyed them both. Just because his arrogance cost him his life, doesn't mean he is any less powerful.

The lack of him using all his force powers just showcases his power actually. If he was weaker then he was, probably he would have had to use the lightning or the other force powers to try to win the duel. But he was so much fuking stronger then both of them at once, that he didn't even have too.

The fact remains, he was a Sith trained from birth by Palps himself. There is nothing in any of the movies that leads me to believe that he didn't posess the full arsenal of Sith powers. Well trained, full of rage, has a great teacher, and lots of time to learn anything he needed.

Of course he could use lightning. He just didn't have too.

I totally see where you are coming from. But I disagree.

We don't know how long Maul was trained for starters. Saying he was trained since birth isn't official. The jurys out on that little fact I'm afraid.

I'd like to think he didn't have to use lightning - but he did. Right before he got split in two. He could have done with some electrocuting goodness right there. I don't think using lightning would have just "slipped his mind" when he was stood over Obi-Wan for a minute and a half thinking "wow, I wonder how I could knock him off that little knob thing from here? If only I had a power that was long range enough...."

So, we could just say we just don't know if he can or not. I don't think I'd be dumb enough to say he 100% cannot do it, but so far wisdom leads me to believe it really ISN'T LIKELY that he could perform Sith Lightning.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
So, we could just say we just don't know if he can or not. I don't think I'd be dumb enough to say he 100% cannot do it, but so far wisdom leads me to believe it really ISN'T LIKELY that he could perform Sith Lightning.

Most intelligent thing said so far.

Just because TPM was a shit movie, does that mean all the characters in it were shit too? I believe no, but apparently you think otherwise. The movie was supposed to portray Maul as a straight up killer, and to me it did that. He owned two jedi's one of which was about the best the jedi had at the time. Qui gon was second only to Yoda at the time of TPM and he got punked by Maul, and he even had his padawan helping him and still lost.

Also, Palps doesn't recruit punks. He has shown that he wants the very best apprentices available to him. For those 2+ decades, that was Darth Maul. I think it would be awefully foolish to assume that Maul had no real force powers. If Palps just wanted a sword fighter, he could have made a droid like Grevious or something. No, he wanted a full on Sith Apprentice and that's what he had with Maul. Maul had everything Siths have. All the strength, all the rage, all the training, all the force powers.

Dooku may have been stronger, but don't assume that means Maul is worthless. It's not an all or nothing thing. Maul is up there with the best. He isn't the best, but he's up there. He can do it all, I have no doubt about that. The fact that he didn't, just showcases that he had a serious lack of experience, and a serious lack of a brain.

Had all the power, but no smarts to back it up. That's why he died. But of course he could use all the Sith powers. That's a no brainer considering who he is and who his teacher is

So after all that, you have still not learned anything? Come on dude, you're making stuff up now.

And since when has the quality of TPM got anything to do with the characters powers? I personally quite like TPM, it has it's flaws, but it's certainly better than AOTC. What part of the arguemnet were you trying to target by talking about TPMs quality? It's irrelevant here.

What you are saying is completely without a knowledge base. How do you know Maul had all the power and no brains? From watching TPM, Maul seems quite clever and quite the tactician, through the course of the movie and including during the duel.

Maul had much to learn, he was an apprentice, he was no master, you keep going on about him as though he was unstoppable. He wasn't.

This is getting kind of...er...drawn-out. So far, I have read everything said and come to the conclusion that Vanquish is, for the most part, in the wrong.

Maul was the Apprentice. Apprentice = Padawan, since Maul is about the same age as Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan really did train since birth with Jedi teachers and Qui-Gon, but we don't see him lifting up starfighters and throwing them at Maul, do we? Can't assume that Maul can do lightning in the seem respect as Obi-Wan can't match Yoda at that age.