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In ANH, when Obi explains to Luke that Vader killed his father, etc., now "...he's more machine than man..."

If Obi left Vader for dead, burned and dying on Mustafar, then went into hiding on Tatooine, how did he know that black suit cyborg Vader exists?

let the fires commence if this has been a repeated question

Um, becasue he maybe found out that Vader was back. And he used common sense to realize he was more machine?

quigon told him






NEXT

Originally posted by Darth Travizzle
Um, becasue he maybe found out that Vader was back. And he used common sense to realize he was more machine?

lol, yep, you tell him

the fires have commenced

no, its implied by the end of ep3 that until the time of ep4 obiwan will often be in contact with quigon.

"ANAKIN!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" Ep2 tells us that quigon is always watching anakin, even at his darkest moments.

now we put 2 and 2 together

guigon saw that vader was 'more machine than man' and told this to kenobi.

simple

case closed

He said that in ROTJ, not ANH, so we know they met face to face before he said that when they fought on the Death Star. The real question is how did he know Vader in ANH, but that's also been addressed countless times.

the whole fregin galaxy knows Vader is the apprentice or right hand man of the emperor.
Obiwan knows Anakin became Palpy's new apprentice, so whats not to get here...

I'm sure Obiwan watches the news

Well in regards to ep4.... Vader sensed Obi-wan through the force....
...Could it not have been mutually felt....?

JESUS!!!! what is with all these dumb threads can't people use their brains and think of the answer? He may of assumed he died at the end of III but i'm sure the word spread quickly that vader was still alive and able to hunt down the remainder of the Jedi.

A) Qui-Gon

B) Vader get's pretty famous after twenty years.

Case ain't closed, PVS; don't be a smartass. Besides, who's Gui-Gon?

But yeah, I'm assuming that Qui-Gon informs Obi-Wan and Yoda of what the hell Anakin is up to during those 20 years of their isolation.

Also, lest everyone forget, the Force brings visions. Major thing that everyone forgets, for some odd reason. Obi-Wan could have foreseen that Anakin survived, and became Lord Vader, the Evil Iron Lung.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
A) Qui-Gon

B) Vader get's pretty famous after twenty years.

I choose B

Meh...Obi-Wan is on Tatooine, somewhere that Vader doesn't touch for 20 years...hell, he never returns after Episode II. The Empire starts in the Republic-held worlds, and Tatooine is far from.

Where is he going to get information? The local bar? I doubt spacers will be chatting about Lord Vader the Million-Dollar Sith.

Its obvious, there are people who travel to tatooine with information... Like a random traveler, or perhaps a random Storm Trooper that dropped out. And don't you think that the storn troopers would have said something about Vader, at least once?

In the book "Last of the Jedi" Jude Watson explains that Obi-Wan recognized Darth Vader as the former Anakin Skywalker in a datarecorder that contained a Holonet report and Darth Vader's image.

Random stormtrooper drop-outs are usually dead stormtroopers.

Stormtroopers aren't on Tatooine, anyway. Not 'til ANH.

I prefer the Qui-Gon/vision explanation.

yeah, Obiwan may still be getting information from Bail too, before Alderaan goes. Well at least during the first few years after EP III. I'm sure at least Bail would send him a message. If Obiwan knew about the rebellion, then he knows about Vader

Sending him messages? Obi-Wan is hiding, you don't send traceable messages to someone in hiding!

Wich one are we talking about ESB? But yeah, the Qui Gon gin thing is a hell of a lot better. But I herd that GL just threw it in to make everyone fell better.

ok, well, I'm sure news hits tattoine sometime? its not like Obiwan stays out of the spaceports

like I said, if Obiwan knows of a rebellion, Vader wont be hard to miss

Oh, probably. Works as an explanation, doesn't it?

And we're talking about Obi-Wan's explanations in ANH and ROTJ.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Case ain't closed, PVS; don't be a smartass. Besides, who's Gui-Gon?


why, does it make too much sense?

and my compliments on the spelling jab hitlerHEIL!!!!

PVS, I would think that you would come up with an equally plausible explanation that didn't require such a mystical plot. I mean, I wouldn't expect you to do what seems like you went TOO far to explain this because it's not necessary. if some n00b came in with that explanation, i'd accept it. But you've been around too long & you know your stuff. I was just surprised that you took what seems like the scenic route instead of the straight shot to your destination.

It makes loads of sense, that's even what I thought it was. You just need to stop stepping on people because you're right.

Originally posted by Captain REX
It makes loads of sense, that's even what I thought it was. You just need to stop stepping on people because you're right.

what makes sense?? qui gon or famous vader theory

The Qui-Gon theory that PVS proposed.

Originally posted by PVS
why, does it make too much sense?

and my compliments on the spelling jab hitlerHEIL!!!!

PVS, your a Nazi

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
PVS, your a Nazi

Originally posted by Captain REX
The Qui-Gon theory that PVS proposed.

maybe both are true

...right.

no wait, Qui gon theory is BS

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
PVS, your a Nazi

thats "you're a nazi"


HEIL hitler

and krem, if it makes too much sense to you, or you havent been paying attention while watching eps 2 and 3....not my problem is it?

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
no wait, Qui gon theory is BS

yes, absolute bullshit

just like its bullshit that he was watching anakin from the afterlife while he slaughtered tuskens....oh wait thats true.

but its total bullshit that obiwan spent all that time on tattooine all by himself learning from his master quigon....oh wait...thats true too


but we'll just say its bullshit so you feel better, ok?

ok

Qui gon doesn't know everything, how does he know of Vader?
I find it hard to believe that Quigon was Obiwan's only friend and source of information

too mystical I agree
There is a very simple answer

omg are you really that thick

quigon can SEE vader. he's a frikin GHOST!!!!

well obi-wan knows that Darth Vader is anakin before the suit so why wouldnt he know anakin is darth vader in the suit. palpatine wouldnt get a new apprentice with the same darth title. everyone knows who darth vader is. noi under the suit but that darth vader is the right hand man

as earlier posters have stated, its very well possible that obiwan didnt know vader was in a mech suit. he said nothing of vader being more machine than man in ep4, and its very well possible he sensed that it was anakin beneath the black suit. force users sense others through the force, as we see time and time again.

so any way you slice it, its not even worth pondering

Originally posted by jimmy986
well obi-wan knows that Darth Vader is anakin before the suit so why wouldnt he know anakin is darth vader in the suit. palpatine wouldnt get a new apprentice with the same darth title. everyone knows who darth vader is. noi under the suit but that darth vader is the right hand man

thank you

simplicity

Its times like these when, for whatever reason, I feel like such a loser for having wasted my time

Originally posted by PVS
and krem, if it makes too much sense to you, or you havent been paying attention while watching eps 2 and 3....not my problem is it?

Apparently you didn't understand what I said. Not at all. Allow me to explain. Your theory does make sense, sure. But why did you take the long road to get to how Obi-Wan knew when it would be just as plausible for Obi-Wan to sense it himself rather than have to have Qui-Gon see it and then tell him about it before ANH? I was just surprised that someone who knows their stuff as you do would have so many multiple plot points in his theory when i'd expect you to have a more straight forward, simpler explanation that worked just as well.

And please don't speak to me as if i'm because I think you know that's not who I am unless you've managed not to ever read anything i've ever posted here.

Originally posted by kremzike
He said that in ROTJ, not ANH, so we know they met face to face before he said that when they fought on the Death Star. The real question is how did he know Vader in ANH, but that's also been addressed countless times.
yes

What's wrong with this theory?

Thinking about it, I think GL did it wrong. He should've left out the Tatooine stuff where Obi tells Luke the lie and wait until the death star, have Obi live and rejoin the others, luke say "Who was that" and Obi say "Darth Vader. He was a pupil of mine" etc etc. It might have a bigger impact on people, and Obi could realize that it was Anakin still alive and he could come up with that story he told on Tatooine.

Of all the problems people can have with SW, I think this one is at the top of the list of the Too Late For That Suggestion list! "GL, you really messed up that scene early on in the first Star Wars movie you made."

I'm not slamming you, man. It's just that that's the first thing I thought after reading your post.

Originally posted by Tulak Hord
Thinking about it, I think GL did it wrong. He should've left out the Tatooine stuff where Obi tells Luke the lie and wait until the death star, have Obi live and rejoin the others, luke say "Who was that" and Obi say "Darth Vader. He was a pupil of mine" etc etc. It might have a bigger impact on people, and Obi could realize that it was Anakin still alive and he could come up with that story he told on Tatooine.

Lucas didn't plan that far ahead, and when ANH was made, Vader wasn't Anakin, Vader KILLED Anakin. By ESB Lucas turned him into Lukes daddy.

You can tell what Lucas had planned and what he didn't just by watching the movies.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Lucas didn't plan that far ahead, and when ANH was made, Vader wasn't Anakin, Vader KILLED Anakin. By ESB Lucas turned him into Lukes daddy.

You can tell what Lucas had planned and what he didn't just by watching the movies.

yeah I know what you mean.
In a sense, its like there wasn't supposed to be a ESB, EP IV could have been a single movie with no other episodes.

I know Lucas wrote a bunch of stuff and then he broke it down and said he will only make one part of his writings. Lucas wanted his rights for the other 2, indicating he thought about making a trilogy before EP IV came out. Although Lucas didn't know if ANH was going to be a hit, and it could have been possible to die a horrible death.

So, in my opinion, ANH was its own movie and story. ESB, really made the story great, forsure, but it didn't seem exactly intentional

Originally posted by kremzike
Apparently you didn't understand what I said. Not at all. Allow me to explain. Your theory does make sense, sure. But why did you take the long road to get to how Obi-Wan knew when it would be just as plausible for Obi-Wan to sense it himself rather than have to have Qui-Gon see it and then tell him about it before ANH? I was just surprised that someone who knows their stuff as you do would have so many multiple plot points in his theory when i'd expect you to have a more straight forward, simpler explanation that worked just as well.

And please don't speak to me as if i'm because I think you know that's not who I am unless you've managed not to ever read anything i've ever posted here.

i understood you

what you dont understand is the warped mind of george lucas.
sometimes in homocide cases, detectives must attempt to see
events through the eyes of a psycho. same here.

who was syfo dias? we all know...kinda....but not really.
we know that dooku ordered the clone army and somehow
he got syfo dias to erase the jedi archive records of the planet
or he forged his i.d.......but in order to know what GL says is so
'obvious', we have to take a very long, dark, and windy road, dont we?

compared to that, this is not quite a long road at all...is it>

meh who gives a shit. when GL made ep4 he had no frikin idea and i think its safe to say that in his mind then (formerly sane) kenobi had seen mech vader before meeting him at the deathstar.

GL didn't say it. You did. Nevermind. Have your fun. I'm done.

yeah whatever

keep in touch with yourself

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
yes

What's wrong with this theory?

*raises hand* oohh!! i know!! i know!! pick me!! pick me!!

Yeah, I still believe it was very obvious to Obiwan about Vader

oh my gosh! OBI-WAN SENSED VADERS PRESENCE. OBI-WAN KNEW HE FAILED. FACE IT OBI-WAN KNEW HE DIDN'T KILL VADER. AND IM QUITE SURE HE MUST'VE RAN INTO SIDIOUS AT A CERTAIN POINT AFTER WALKING TOWARDS THE SHIP. AND I ALSO LEARNED ON EITHER STAR WARS.COM or WIKKEPIDIA THAT PALPATINE LEARNED PLAGUES' POWER AND THEN HE KILLED HIM!

Sheesh...

PVS, NOW you can say case closed. I support the Qui-Gon theory and the Dreams From the Force theory, so I'm done...

Agree with Red Superfly Theory #2:

just cuz Obiwan went into hiding doesn't mean he NEVER stepped out of his cave to check up on stuff. We know he has a house in the Tatooine dunes...where did he get the building materials? Probably went to Mos Eisely once or twice before settling down. He could've been in and out for the first coupla years and then finally shutting himself from the world for the last 15..who knows? It's pretty easy to hear about Darth Vader from traveling pilots.

If anything, I think the Qui-gon/dream/force felt presence theory works better with Yoda. Dagobah is a place I would think the Empire would never check compared to Tatooine that actually houses settlements, villages, along with the Hutts.

the Qui Gon theory, will mess your mind

How so? Makes more sense to me than Obi-Wan perusing the local bar.

f*ck that noise.

Obiwan aint no idiot, wtf, do you disreagard him??

sheesh, can't we just agree that he "felt a tremor in the force..the last time was in the presence of his old padawan." He had dreams of Vader. And Qui-Gon told him.

Then he went to Mos Eisely in disguise (CUZ HE WAS HIDING) to pick up spare parts to build his house and heard some vendor/bartender/pilot/farmer/merchant/kid/assassin/bounty hunter/stripper mention Vader's name. In a span of 20 years...maybe, just maybe he heard it within that time. Not that unbelievable. If 3-PO can explain the entire saga of Star Wars to a bunch of Ewoks, I'm sure Obi-Wan can figure out Vader was in a mechanical suit and the Emperor's right hand man now. Maybe he even heard it from Owen once. Ah...Qui-gon's news confirmed.

There, compromise of both theories.

The force...

Need I say more?

I don't believe this. Star Wars fans who are skeptics of the force. How many times is the force mentioned and what it can do. How many times is it shown what it can do. Obi-Wan senses disturbance when Alderaan is blown up. Yoda senses the death of jedis. I'm sure Obi-Wan can atleast detect his own apprentice.

Even if the force theory is complete bs
It is also true that Obi-Wan been in the bars before. If you remember "the most retched hive of villany and scum" quote.

All in all I don't see how there is debate or even a thread about this.

Originally posted by jerlark386
The force...

Need I say more?

I don't believe this. Star Wars fans who are skeptics of the force. How many times is the force mentioned and what it can do. How many times is it shown what it can do. Obi-Wan senses disturbance when Alderaan is blown up. Yoda senses the death of jedis. I'm sure Obi-Wan can atleast detect his own apprentice.

Even if the force theory is complete bs
It is also true that Obi-Wan been in the bars before. If you remember "the most retched hive of villany and scum" quote.

All in all I don't see how there is debate or even a thread about this.

yes, yes

scum and villiany, Qui gon shit is out the door

The force, he Knew in the force that he was more machine that man

Originally posted by General Bondius
The force, he Knew in the force that he was more machine that man

Erm, no, he knew that because he had previously hacked his limbs off.

The Force: "Hey Obi-Wan, remember that kid you hacked up?"

Obi-Wan: "Yeah, Vader."

The Force: "He's got robot limbs now"

Obi-Wan: "Really? There was me thinking he was made from balloons.......cheers EINSTEIN. Man, what am I paying you for?"

It doesn't work.

it's not exactly a secret when the emperors right hand man can choke people without touching them

Aaaaaaaah....

everything is proceeding exactly as I have foreseen

I put a question to the masses and even though I was initally singed as a wanker for such a question, you've all fallen prey to my trap! Four pages on this!

by th way...Obi didn't learn about Vader from Qui-Gon but from his many trips to Mos Eisley...getting a feel for what was going on in the galaxy from the conversations he overheard while drinking with his brother Ben....


Bwah ha ha ha ha ha!

Oi...

So this Jedi walks into a bar, right? He says "Can I have a drink, cause I'm Obi-Wan Kenobi...I mean...Ewan McGregor...no, Alec Guinness!" and the bartender/assassin/farmer/robot says "No, because your whiney student guy? He has robot limbs and walks around in a big black suit. You ****ed up." And Alec Ben McGregor says "Oh..." and then Qui-Gon Neeson appears and says "Hey, stupid, I already told you!" and Alec Ben McGregor says "Oh..." again, and walks out of the bar, mumbling something about scum and villainy.

Wasn't that hilarious? I love that joke...