Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I think that the Thing will win this fight because he's strong enough to break Sabretooth's bones so that he won't be able to heal.

dont insult thing.....

Without adamantium (which I believe is his current state), Creed doesn't have the tools to penetrate Ben's hide.

Maybe, if he snuck up on Thing (which is plausible--Sabretooth has Black Ops training, and Ben Grimm isn't noted for his keen senses), he could push him over a cliff or hit him with a laser gun or something....

Thing 9/10

I think that the Thing would wrap Sabretooth's tongue around his whole body.

The THING would have no problem with sabreT. Ben's too big, strong, and too good of a fighter, along with his crazy durability.

There really isn't much that ST could due to harm Ben seriously enough to ever worry.

ummmmmmmmmm okay fisrt off...sabretooth does have adamantium currently.....that said...his healing factor is faster acting than logans....he's faster than ben....he's a better fighter....and he has superhuman strength...if wolverine can casually open up thing with his claws on a couple occasions, imagine what a bigger meaner version would do who's boasting around in the 10 to 15 ton range.....he would make mince meat out of thing...I mean common! sabretooth was a guy who took on mrs marvel (class 50) in a slug fest and was winning, he fought killpower (class 100) and almost ripped his head off, he KOed rogue in 3 hits...AND THAT WAS BEFORE HIS UPGRADES....with em...he has more than his fair shot at dicing thing to bits...

With Adamantium, this is a very different fight. Thing still outclasses Sabretooth in strength (a lot), but now Sabretooth can cut him.

If Sabretooth could, say, get in a solid rake across Ben's face, he could very well blind him. Or he could take out his legs, stab him, any number of things.

Nevertheless, Ben has reach, could smash the ground under Sabretooth's feet, or hurl cars/girders/whatever's handy at him. This would actually be a very good fight, and I'll say it's pretty much up in the air: 5/5.

he could do that...but once again....sabetooth ripped out a steel girder and tried to whomp mrs. marvel with it..swinging it around with just one hand...when she got it away from him and smacked him with it....he just got back up like nothin happened....he can take much more punishment than wolverine...wolverine's taken some of the hulk angriest shots and just kept coming...thing's not hulk...no even close....if he drops a building on creed or something sure he could secure some sort of cheap victory...I'm betting sabretooth closes ground before that happens though....in any event...these two get dropped into the middle of pohdunk nebraska....level terrain..... and sabretooth has his way with the rock man....

Or Thing stomps hard, cracks up the ground under him, and takes advantage with a good right hook when Creed loses his footing.

I still say it's 5/5, even if you take away things for Ben to throw.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Or Thing stomps hard, cracks up the ground under him, and takes advantage with a good right hook when Creed loses his footing.

I still say it's 5/5, even if you take away things for Ben to throw. Is this fight like a souped up "Wolverine Vs Spiderman"?

a good right hook isn't going to make creed do anything but smile...isn't thing less powerful than class 100? that said creed nearly ripped off a guys head who was class 100 and on top of that, took his hits like nothing....only getting madder at each one....multiple hits from sasquatch just made him laugh and talk smack...but one hit from thing is going to do it?

Nope. Thing is slightly above Class 100.

when did that happen? and you can't be above class 100....he maybe able to lift more than 100 tons but that's still a class 100 feat...

That's a strange definition of class 100.

Thing's strength has slowly been growing over time. When he first appeared in the 60s, his max lift was 4-6 tons. Obviously, it's grown exponentially since then.

Originally posted by Piedmon
That's a strange definition of class 100.

Thing's strength has slowly been growing over time. When he first appeared in the 60s, his max lift was 4-6 tons. Obviously, it's grown exponentially since then. That's the way Marvel has it.

Class 100 is 100+ tons lifted, 300 tons? That's still a class 100.

Kinda wierd. But that's the way they have it.

okay that's fine but when was he documented as being able to gorilla press over 100 tons?


I know the definition's confusing...it confused me too.....but class 100 refers to anyone capible of lifting 100 tons and up (doesn't matter how high up).... like hulk...can obviously lift more than 100 tons...but he's still classified as class 100.

Well, Thing is a Class 100 on the low end of the spectrum.

He'd still send Sabretooth sailing with a punch to the jaw, though.

Not that Creed wouldn't just get back up, but yeah. This is a really good fight, the more I think about it.

yeah i was gonna say....creed may fly but...he'd probably get a kick out of it..

This is why this board needs a spar forum, srsly.

spar forrum?

again...when was thing documented to gorrila press over 100 tons?

I'll admit, I heard it from these boards and nowhere else explicitly, but hell if it just doesn't sound right.

The Marvel Directory says he can press 85 tons. It's reliable as far as it goes, but its information hasn't been updated in years. Nevertheless, that strength outclasses Sabretooth. Coupled with Ben's skill and surprising speed (he's a very experienced fighter), this is an interesting fight.

A spar forum is a forum where two posters take charge of one character and basically go at it. It's like an RPG, but the only objective is to kill the other dude.

Originally posted by Piedmon
I'll admit, I heard it from these boards and nowhere else explicitly, but hell if it just doesn't sound right.

The Marvel Directory says he can press 85 tons. It's reliable as far as it goes, but its information hasn't been updated in years. Nevertheless, that strength outclasses Sabretooth. Coupled with Ben's skill and surprising speed (he's a very experienced fighter), this is an interesting fight.

A spar forum is a forum where two posters take charge of one character and basically go at it. It's like an RPG, but the only objective is to kill the other dude. I'd love that. I once had a whole system setup just for that very thing.

in response to spar thingy... oh...that does sound cool...


don't get me wrong this is an interesting fight...just not THAT interesting...thing's got good fighting skills...sabretooth's are superb.... thing has a huge strength factor...sabretooth has a huge durability and healing factor that negates it... thing has surprising speed....sabretooth has been documented as a blur, he now has enhanced reflexes and enhanced healing factor....due to his super strength alone he should be able to take some ting punches without failing....add in a healing factor and indestrucible skeleton...uh oh....thing's punches ain't looking so impressive anymore...

Sabretooth's healing/regeneration abilities, reflexes, speed ang agility exceed those of Thing by far.His fightning skills are above those of poor Benji too.Ben Grimm is a former boxer and wrestler, Victor Creed was a C.I.A. agent, a Black Ops special agent and the list goes on.He has martial arts and hth combat knowledge near or equal to those of Wolverine, plus he has all of his powers but on a higher degree.In his previous incarnation he beat the crap outta Carol Danvers a.k.a. Miss Marvel and Rogue.This guy can school Benji very bad, cause he also has the killer instinct.He'll slash his eyes, then chop off his hands and legs then watch the Thing in pain before killing him, slowly.

Alright, screw it, does anyone want to do this fight with me? I'll take Thing and argue his case at the end of my GIGANTIC ROCK FISTS RAWR.

Depends on which incarnation of Sabretooth, but I'd say Sabretooth 4 / Thing 6.

Figth goes for the thing. More durable, alot stronger, more ability to hurt and soak damage and more heart.

Saber is a beast thats out of this league.

Originally posted by olympian
Figth goes for the thing. More durable, alot stronger, more ability to hurt and soak damage and more heart.

Saber is a beast thats out of this league.
Sabes can stay toe to toe with a Class 50 and now he's better than that period.He can chop off Thing's arms with ease.Adamantium is better than rocky skin.

Sabretooth dies in this one trying....

His claws might scratch him, Wolverine already proved it. But beat him? No way. They dont have the strengh of the top tier for actually kill or knock out these guys.

Ill go with the example of the Hulk/Logan tussle during the first PAD run. Logan hurt the Hulk but didnt beat him. And while the Thing doesnt have the healing ability of the Hulk he is durable enough to handle it.

The moment Thing gets his hands on saber hes done.

Originally posted by shaolin9976
Sabretooth dies in this one trying....
Logan stabbed Thing.
Why can't Sabretooth do the same, he's better than Logan in EVERYTHING.His reflexes and speed will grant him to kill the Thing.He's also quite strong and durable plus heal and regenerate fast.Tell me how he's gonna lose.He has more fightning skills and experience than Thing, and he's a cold blood killer.

He is going to win because he is more durable and stronger than Sabretooth...unless Sabretooth gained new powers that I didn't know...I've been out of touch for awhile now.

K3 while the Thing was stabbed by logan he wasent out could was it?

thats what i base myself in, either saber or logan can hurt him but actually beat him its another "thing"-no pun intended.

Yes Saber is better than logan in everything. Hes more vicious, cooler, a better killer. But that still doesnt put him at the top where guys like Herc and Thor hang.

and yes even the Thing.

EotS is really out of whack, with Wolverine having serious difficulty with characters he should be able to take out easily (Daredevil, Elektra), and at the same time easily taking out characters who should be a serious challenge (Beast, Thing).

Yeah Logan has problems with streeth level guys but hangs out and hurt Top tier guys

wow k3vil I actually agree with you on something....amazing..

thing appears more durable.....however sabretooth can take more punishment hit for hit than thing can due to his admantium skeleton and excelerated healing factor.... thing is stronger...however he's not much stronger than sas who was punching the crap out of creeds face and didn't get much more out of him than a smile....

He's not durable enough to keep from being torn apart by a guy using razor sharp adamantium claws backed by 10 to 15 class strength.....if wolverine can pop his claws through things hide without class 10-15 strength behind his claws..imagine what sabes would do to the guy....sabretooth can do it faster and easier...

he's strong, but not strong enough to sufficently damge or KO sabes to get a win....sabretooth took it to a class 50 character (mrs. marvel) and hit for hit...was winning as she was wearing down due to fatigue while his healing factor kept him fresh as a daisy.....now he has more superstrength coupled with an adamantium noggin....he's not going down to things hits plain and simple....like I said he's even already delt with a class 100 strength level character and almost killed the guy....given his new attributes...thing doesn't stand much of a chance...

Correct me if Im wrong, been outta comics for awhile, but, last I saw, Sabertooth 'had' adamantium but I thought Apacolypse took Sabers and gave it to Wolvie...so, isnt Saber back to norm?

no later he got captured by some shady weapon x guys who put the adamantium back into him, gave him enhanced strength, sped up his healing factor, and enhanced his reflexes......he's definitely not the same as he used to be....he backed down a dozen of mr sinister's superman rippoffs (these guys had super strength, heat vision, super speed, flight and a couple other things and they wanted absolutely nothing to do with sabretooth).

Jin. Saber taking the advantage against Ms marvel as class 50 is a good feat. But he will be dealing with Thing whos practically twice as strong as she is. More durable and be less willing to tire.


I just dont see him beating Thing. In the last Saber mini, Sasquatch beat him down and hes currently weaker than Ben. Saber only got out of it because he knew Sas was there and had a trap ready.

just a few things....sabreooth's enhanced strength will allow him to take more punishment thant he did against mrs. marvel...sabes adamantium skeleton will allow him to take more punishment than super strength will alone....this will easily allow him to brush off things blows like nothing.....

also...like I said before...sabretooth has already gone toe to toe with a guy who was on par with hercules in the strength departement and nearly ripped the guys head off..and that was before his enhancements as well....

now granted, sas did give him quite a beating...but this only furthers my point....sabretooth wasn't exactly dying because of it...instead he was smiling and warning sasquatch about the trap.....talkin a lil smack to boot...then he preceeded to DESTROY wendigo.....hasn't it taken both hulk and sas to subdue wendigo? sabretooth wore the guys skin by the end of their fight....and wendigo's easily as strong if not above thing in strength....

"also...like I said before...sabretooth has already gone toe to toe with a guy who was on par with hercules in the strength departement and nearly ripped the guys head off..and that was before his enhancements as well...."

You mean Cyber? Granted i dont know much about him.


About Sas, saber was laugthing cause hes a psycho, total vicious. He does feel pain tho.

I consider him killing Wendigo a high end feat. And i mean really high. Not his average. That or this Wendigo version was weaker.

Saber does have a chance, but Thing has more.

no not cyber killpower......

-class 100 strength.....
-level 7 fighting ability
-super speed
-enhanced reflexes
-mastery of every weapon

almost killed....

Ok thats two high end feats right there

how about when he backed down a dozen superman rippoffs?

Superman rippofs? tell me about it.

guys who had super strength.......maybe class 50 to 70.....super speed.....flight.....and heat vision......mr. sinister made them....

And he beat those? Wer they using all powers or just going fistcufs.

Dont forget that Ben has also battled silver surfer.

there were 12 of them...he killed two by closing ground and making them go fisticuffs...the rest backed down cause they didn't want none...

So they wer scared. Mostly because maybe they didnt even knew how to use what they got and saw that in a fistcufs ( where saber is at best ) they would go downhill.

I can accept that, creed is one bad mofo.

But ben isent inexperienced or scared of him. he will go with full will to win. Like when he broke Champions ribs.

Ben doesnt give up and not having scared of Saber is a good start to win.

i never claimed he would be scared...but you really got to admit...considering that logans messed him up on a couple occasions...and that sabretooth is his superior in soooo many ways....things are looking pretty grim for...oh lol.....mr ben grimm....

Your right, saber is better than Logan in every way ( more cool suit also and personality )

I just dont belive that saber can kock him out. Logan has scratch him yes but never came close to beat him. In one comic where the x-men went against the F4, the moment Ben hits Logan he was out.


Mad as Saber is he doesnt have the strengh to make that adamantium destroy Thing.

Ol ben will be messed up after this for sure

how does sabretooth lack the sufficient strngth to penetrate thing when wolverine does not? frankly wolvie messed his face up and was about to get some more of thing until the ff vanished from the fight....when thing did punch logan out mr. fantastic even made a point that ben got lucky cause wolverine was far from his best....then in enemy of the state logan drops thing in 1 yeah that's right....1 hit....his claws went clean through.....sabretooth would mess him up and then some.....

Because Logan doesnt belong to the same class of strenght. Hes way below. thats why you will always hear that logan cutting Hulk or Thing is not good writting. Or taking things this way is more due to adamantium.

Has Logan ever did more against Ben than just scratch him? I mean like busting his rocky hide.

Scratching alone isent goig to put Ben down.

I just told you hit plunged his claws right through bens pec and dropped him in one hit.....

scrathing? no....clawing? well it was enough to take out wendigo....

Originally posted by jinzin
how does sabretooth lack the sufficient strngth to penetrate thing when wolverine does not? frankly wolvie messed his face up and was about to get some more of thing until the ff vanished from the fight....when thing did punch logan out mr. fantastic even made a point that ben got lucky cause wolverine was far from his best....then in enemy of the state logan drops thing in 1 yeah that's right....1 hit....his claws went clean through.....sabretooth would mess him up and then some.....

Wolverine was knocked out of the building in FF#374...He clawed Thing's face when Thing was just playing with him, but it was obvious that Wolverine wasnt on his level.

Killpower is not class 100...he can lift something like 1500lbs i think...I will look that up on a directory....but he isnt sh!t.

Dont compare Thing to Wendigo, Sasquatch or even Hulk...he's an entirely different kind of fighter. He can keep up h2h with cats like Wolverine...I mean he did body slam him with no effort and then take him off the scene with one backhand.

That combination of skill and strength...and experience too makes Thing too much for Sbaretooth IMO.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Wolverine was knocked out of the building in FF#374...He clawed Thing's face when Thing was just playing with him, but it was obvious that Wolverine wasnt on his level.

Killpower is not class 100...he can lift something like 1500lbs i think...I will look that up on a directory....but he isnt sh!t.

Dont compare Thing to Wendigo, Sasquatch or even Hulk...he's an entirely different kind of fighter. He can keep up h2h with cats like Wolverine...I mean he did body slam him with no effort and then take him off the scene with one backhand.

That combination of skill and strength...and experience too makes Thing too much for Sbaretooth IMO.

I concur!

Ben wins this one relatively easy per marvel.com


Their #s

Ben's Sabe's

INT 2 2
STR 6 4
SPD 2 2
DUR 6 4
ENRGY PROJ 1 1
FGHT SKLL 5 5


Ben is equal to Sabe in every category and 2 better in 2 important spots STRG, DUR.

It will be over quickly. If not nobody's got more heart than Ben.

Ben wins

marvel.com is horribly inacurate....they haven't even acknowedged sabretooth's own enhancements there...and sabretooth has always been a better fighter than ben...always...

Originally posted by Wynndar
Wolverine was knocked out of the building in FF#374...He clawed Thing's face when Thing was just playing with him, but it was obvious that Wolverine wasnt on his level.

Killpower is not class 100...he can lift something like 1500lbs i think...I will look that up on a directory....but he isnt sh!t.

Dont compare Thing to Wendigo, Sasquatch or even Hulk...he's an entirely different kind of fighter. He can keep up h2h with cats like Wolverine...I mean he did body slam him with no effort and then take him off the scene with one backhand.

That combination of skill and strength...and experience too makes Thing too much for Sbaretooth IMO.

is that why hercules couldn't take killpower in an arm wrestling match? and ben can keep up h2h with cats like them? really? guess that's why logan dropped him in one hit huh?

Originally posted by jinzin
is that why hercules couldn't take killpower in an arm wrestling match? and ben can keep up h2h with cats like them? really? guess that's why logan dropped him in one hit huh?

Herc couldn't beat Ben in arm wrestling either.

And Sabe has never been a better fighter than Ben. Never.

You have to admit that was just horrible writing and nothing else.(Logan)

Ben wins

Here here!!!

It's Clobberin' time!!!

he's never beat a better fighter than ben?....ummmmm


wolverine anyone?



it was bad writing cause you didn't like it....thing's rock hide shouldn't be able to stand up to adamantium...logan proves it twice and you don't like it so it's bad writing...sabretooth would turn thing into mince rock....

Or alternatively, when a rock-fist with massive force behind it connects with Sabes face....

It'd be like a thin layer of tomato soup spread on the front of a tin can...

except sabes has an adamantium skeleton.......so i guess....it wouldn't...

Really...?

You really didn't listen to the analogy did you...? lol.

How on Earth does having a strong skeleton prevent your face from being smacked one? It doesn't.

Lips, cheeks, eyes, forehead etc all bleed.

And they will when they're hit by huge fists made of living rock!

oh i get what you're saying now....I misunderstood what you were attempting to convey....regardless....not much help anyways...

lol!

That just looks awful!!!

Thing'd just run off if he saw that!!!

Does anyone have the Killpower armwrestling constest? I just dont know zip of the guy.

Zephro does have a point. A skeleton only helps you so far. They can still be knock out and being left hurt. And benny has the strengh for it.

he has the strength..it's just more likely that it won't happen than it is that it will....hulk has a hard time knocking wolverine out....add in all of sabretooths enhanced factors and things limitations on strength, and it's far more likely that sabes will slice him and dice him before getting koed...


the killpower thing takes place in battletide vol 2 issue 3 or 4 i believe i could scan it but I'm too lazy....

Knowing Marvel they would probably give Saber a win for sure.

About your analogy between Thing and Wolverine. Its called Wolverine factor. The fact he can do damage to guys he shouldnt-or more likely wouldnt be able to- and gets beaten by electra the next moment.

After all do you agree with all the streeth level victories they had in " contest of champions 2"?

List them olympian, I don't know them all.

Bone claw Wolverine beating immortal Hercules

Black widow beating on her own the x-force.

Gambit beating quicksilver using who was using super speed.

Iron Fist beating Colossus.

Black Phanter beating the New Warrriors on his own.

Daredevil beating Firestar.

And Jean Grey going toe to toe against Ben in 3 shots. Without the using the Phoenix powers she had. Pure Brawl.

" Quicksilver who was using super speed..."

Serious?

"And Jean Grey going toe to toe against Ben in 3 shots. Without the using the Phoenix powers she had. Pure Brawl."

That was just a telepathic illusion she placed in Bens mind

"And Jean Grey going toe to toe against Ben in 3 shots. Without the using the Phoenix powers she had. Pure Brawl."

I saw it in a scan placed at alvaros. And quickly though "wth"

In that case its ok, but you still have the other examples.

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=050701154012

Here is the link for anyone who wants to see.

champions II didn't come out all that long ago...i'm fairly certain those claws are not bone.....

I mean shit when they had a tussle in the 80's herc was scared of those claws......there's obviously a good reason why....

Originally posted by olympian
Knowing Marvel they would probably give Saber a win for sure.

About your analogy between Thing and Wolverine. Its called Wolverine factor. The fact he can do damage to guys he shouldnt-or more likely wouldnt be able to- and gets beaten by electra the next moment.

After all do you agree with all the streeth level victories they had in " contest of champions 2"?
You've heard of that dreaded disease too, I thought I was the only one.

Wolverine beat Iron Man also.lol

when iron man's sheilds were down and he was caught in h2h with logan iron man got his butt kicked by taskmaster in h2h....

How'd he get caught into hand to hand, wolverine did a "great leap"

Sabretooth don't even need to chop his arms or stab him into the chest.
A slice on the face, the Thing is blind.
Now, what he's gonna do?
Thing has problems catching Spider-Man, Sabretooth walked over Spider-Man and the Punisher and didn't kill them cause he was going to care his business.
After Creed make the Thing blind, fight is over.

"champions II didn't come out all that long ago...i'm fairly certain those claws are not bone"

They wer..this happened after Logan had the adamantium removed of his body. That is why its bad writting. Even with Adamantium Herc wont go down stabbed or not because he doesnt die by conventional means. He also has a healing ability on his own.

Now a bone claw wolvie against a guy liks this and win? Its bad writting. Wolverine had a huge jobber aura in this period.

Sabretooth has too much on thing, he cant keep up or even take morea damage.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
How'd he get caught into hand to hand, wolverine did a "great leap"

actually IM was already on the ground....it's really not an example of a fight...Iron man's sheilds were down and he wasn't fully prepared...

WTF? are we in agreement twice today!?!?! TWICE?!?!?!?! AHHHHHHHHHH the world is ending!

Originally posted by jinzin
actually IM was already on the ground....it's really not an example of a fight...Iron man's sheilds were down and he wasn't fully prepared...

which fight are you speaking of.

Originally posted by jinzin
WTF? are we in agreement twice today!?!?! TWICE?!?!?!?! AHHHHHHHHHH the world is ending!

I agreed with Cresh a few times, don't know whats worse.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
which fight are you speaking of.

not the ultimate war one....the one where black panther brought down his shield...

that makes better sense then, a guy was furious when I tried to explain to him why wolverine wouldn't beat iron man.

yeah I would have to think that having repulsor rays and a strong ass sheild with nukes ought to do the trick wolverine fanboy powers or not...

No you must've not seen those fanboy powers lately, check the spidey vs. firelord thread.

lol

They all upgrade..........

A fight between Wolverine and Ben Grimm could have either one come out on top and it wouldn't be bad writing. The same goes for Sabretooth.

The bad writting thing was in relation of him winning against immortal Hercules. Thing has been hurt by him before. thats not bad writting at least in a continuaty way.

The reason why i go with ben is because he has too much strengh for logan or saber to handle in a fight that will go more than just a few rounds.

If Ben was a guy easy to go down even with the strenght he has is one thing. But he doesnt. That also comes in play.

And the fact i have seen Ben knocking the lights out of Logan with one punch while i have never seen logan do that to ben even with claws.

On the other hand, I've seen Wolverine punch his claws through Ben's chest and take him down in one hit. Which evens things up, doesn't it?

Seriously, though, there's no reason he couldn't. Unless Grimm's hide is nine inches thick? Wolverine rips through stuff that's a lot tougher then rock all the time.

When did he do that? I know Ben is not invulnerable like other top bricks but i dont recall that.

And was he out of the game or he got back up again? Being stunned helps logan but if wasent out cold after one hit wolvie will be in trouble.

he has you shouldn't be surprised..............

Ben isnt just made of rock and waiting to be torn apart he has enough durability to go into fights with guys like Hulk and Namor where if he was JUST covered in rock would shatter him.Ive also seen te guy push his way through lasers from Dr.Doom and still manage to clobber him

Theres no way i hell i can see Sabertooth doing more than superficial damage and without the "Class 100 strength means nothing" power-up tooth' goes down

I've heard of that power up before.

yeah clearly wolverine nor sabretooth could ever beat the thing

who is this aimed at I already said they could win.........

olympian....

thing is....wolverine's taken full on shots from grey hulk, savage hulk, namor, collosus, etc etc....he took class 40 and up shots from guys without his adamantium and didn't even skip a beat....

sabretooth has proven to be able to take full on shots to the face from a class 100 character with a smile, made a fur coat out of another, and nearly tore the head off of another...

yet thing is going to win this fight because he's too strong for them? I simply don't follow that "logic".

and thats where I stop posting lol....................

lol.

Originally posted by jinzin
olympian....

thing is....wolverine's taken full on shots from grey hulk, savage hulk, namor, collosus, etc etc....he took class 40 and up shots from guys without his adamantium and didn't even skip a beat....

sabretooth has proven to be able to take full on shots to the face from a class 100 character with a smile, made a fur coat out of another, and nearly tore the head off of another...

yet thing is going to win this fight because he's too strong for them? I simply don't follow that "logic".

Yeah after all the entire MU was created for the sole purpose of jobbing to hairy canadians and will eventually be cosumed by their Class 5000 strength battles while the meek cosmic entities like Galactus pheonix and death look on in fear

I love this guys sarcasm.

Originally posted by EvilCap America
Yeah after all the entire MU was created for the sole purpose of jobbing to hairy canadians and will eventually be cosumed by their Class 5000 strength battles while the meek cosmic entities like Galactus pheonix and death look on in fear

you dammmmmmmmmmmmmn right.

Jinzin don't back down.

i'm far too sexy to be backin down now....

Not as sexy as yours truly

Jinn im not saying logan never did that. Im saying more often than not hes not going to since the difference between him and top guys is huge. That scan so far is the only time Logan made Thing go down.

Popularity also has alot to do with it. Did you saw how Captain America held his own against Hulk in Davids first run? Do you agree he should?

Logan has too much popularity to lose but how characters have been portraited since marvel created them i bet on Thing to win. Again its my opinion. Thing has made Hulk go down, a very weakned Galactus go down, fought against glads etc. He wins after a good battle.

Now about marvel jobbing to hairy canadians.... hmmm

Logan did chop his face up pretty nicely in ff 374, thing may have swatted him back...but he was far from beating the guy....the ff were in a losing position wolverine got up and surrounded the ff with the other defenders and then the ff got lucky and escaped...

the time that thing hit him and wolverine got KOed even mr fantastic commented on how ting was lucky because wolverine was off....


the pic I just displayed was after wolverine got his wrists fried by human torch and fell through a two story floor, then got walloped by that huge thing that....thing is carrying around....and he still took him down...
popularity does have alot to do with comic book occurances it's true but seriously....doesn't that apply to everyone...when you're not popular you get aced...just like the wasp....it's just how things go in comic book land...but that's no excuse to disregard feats...I think a lot of people on here hate wolvie for the sheer popularity he has accumilated over the years and confuse what they think he SHOULD DO with what he's actually capible of doing....

....considering captain america is who he is he should be able to hold his own against the hulk....obviously not head on...but he should be able to avoid hulk long enough until hulk gives up or loses due to a plot device....captain america always finds a way....i mean I realize how fanboyish that staement may sound at first, but lets face it....that is just the way this guy has been presented to us... and hell, captain america even did it in cap/falcon #12 not too long ago....


as far as the hulk goes...wolverine's almost killed the hulk on several occasions....he's had as many impressive showings against hulk as thing as so it's really a moot point.

as far as other feats go...please don't even force me to delve into the PIS feats on wolverine's behalf cause I assure you they heavily outweigh the things....

the point is, this fight like so many others on this forum is as simple as one good hit and it's over....that's really all sabretooth or wolverine needs... they don't even have to do that..they can just aim for things hands and pretty much disable his best offensive weapons by doing so....his skin isn't durable enough to stand up to adamantium and one solid punch/claw to the face from either of them would end the fight plain and simple....thing however doesn't have the same garantee..IF he was able to knocked either of them out with a good blow, it would be lucky....that however doesn't change the fact that both wolverine and sabretooth have shown themselves more times than not to be fully capible of dealing with more raw strength and power than thing is capible of dishing out....can he knock them out? of course...it's a long shot, but he can presumable do it? will he win this fight? no....not on average...not when his best chance relies on the chance (and a slim chance at that) that he will knock either of them out when they've easily stood up to more punishment before...it's really kinda funny....like I said before, a ton of their fights on these vs. threads are the same, one hit and it's over...you're riding on thing being able to lnd a sufficient blow that's hard enough to win this fight while at the same time dodging and evading everything they throw at him, even though they are the superior fighters....the odds simply aren't in his favor even though the strength may be....

Frst apperences-Wolvie is a normal guy with claws and fast healing while Sabertooth is getting his butt kicked by Black Cat

By the early 80s hes a ninja with an unbreakable skulliton and him and tooth' are a kind of canadian super-soldier

Late 80s Wolverine cant even be hurt by 10 strength level characters and tooth gets to become a uber-warrior in the Marauders

90s roll around and wolvie LOSES his andamantium then takes hits from Hulk without flinching and can nail Quicksilver.Sabertooth meanwhile starts pounding on anything that moves

21st century starts and Sabertooth can KO Rogue without effort while Wolverine routinely beats anything short of Gladiator

By 2010 Wolverine and Sabertooth will be cosmic beings marvel will then cancel any comic they dont appear and fight every issue in

Originally posted by olympian
Jinn im not saying logan never did that. Im saying more often than not hes not going to since the difference between him and top guys is huge. That scan so far is the only time Logan made Thing go down.

Popularity also has alot to do with it. Did you saw how Captain America held his own against Hulk in Davids first run? Do you agree he should?

Logan has too much popularity to lose but how characters have been portraited since marvel created them i bet on Thing to win. Again its my opinion. Thing has made Hulk go down, a very weakned Galactus go down, fought against glads etc. He wins after a good battle.

Now about marvel jobbing to hairy canadians.... hmmm

This argument has been done, DD or elecktra would give wolverine trouble, while Cyclops would be utterly beaten.

I kind of agree with alot what you said. And i see you also see that even guys like captain America doing it its more of a plot device thing than any other thing. Thats how they are written and presented to us, since they lack what top tier have, writers make them more top at skills and agile. I dont agree with the how and why writers do it, i like to make this clear.

But i respect the fact that -since- they are written that way ala Logan being able to do more for what i checked than just scratch him i give him beter ods than before. I just thing that Ben is capable of more considering he has better feats.

"This argument has been done, DD or elecktra would give wolverine trouble, while Cyclops would be utterly beaten".

Yeah, like i said i respect it. I just dont like that "logic" at both Marvel and Dc.

Mpney its all about the green, who wants to see Black Cat lose outright to carnage, when she could hurt him, which she has done.

ANyway you're doing a fine job, keep it up.

Thanks for the head up.

The Thing wins, one punch and Sabretooth is dead if he doesnt have an adamantium skeleton. If he does, one punch and he doesnt die, but he still gets knocked out.

Originally posted by armandovalles
The Thing wins, one punch and Sabretooth is dead if he doesnt have an adamantium skeleton. If he does, one punch and he doesnt die, but he still gets knocked out.

How did you come to his conclusion?

Killpower is not a class 100 strong guy...the Hulk made him look like a clown...He does not have the capabilities of the Thing. Wenidgo is the only person of any value that Sabretooth has taken on. Ive also seen him get KO'd by a kick from the Beast! NOT IMPRESSED!

The wolverine types get soooo much praise.

Im not saying THing is going to beat ST with one punch...but i dont think ST is capable of going toe to toe with Thing...especiailly without an adamantium skelaton. Without the Adamantium, ST would just get his arms ripped off! With Adamatium at least ST would be able to hurt Thing. But scratching the Thing with his nails like a little girl? ST would eventually heal from any Damage the Thing caused, but he will long be KO'd before the THing goes down.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Killpower is not a class 100 strong guy...the Hulk made him look like a clown...He does not have the capabilities of the Thing. Wenidgo is the only person of any value that Sabretooth has taken on. Ive also seen him get KO'd by a kick from the Beast! NOT IMPRESSED!

oh yes, when he was in the x-mansion training...when he was bound by restraints and kept on sedatives to keep him off his game....when he was so messed up that gambit came in and beat him with ease.....yes that's such a fine example of his capabilities especially considering his new power-ups......

but yeah i guess killpower was able to stalemate herc in an arm wrestling match because he doesn't even come close to herc's strength level huh

I guess he was able to take multiple shots from hulk to the face because he's so weak....I suppose his supervisor was actually surprised that HULK knocked him out because killpowers only able to lift slightly more than a peak human well according to you at least....doh

claws are six inches in length....thing's head/face isn't covered by a 6 inch layer od protective rocky hide.....

killpower took a few shots to the face from the Hulk....yea elaborate a little more...what did he do then? Oh yes...lost consciousness and fell down. Killpower has genetic recombination of a Gorilla enhancing his stength. I dont know why a writer had him stalemate Herc in arm wrestling, but he is no herc, and no Grimm, when it comes to strength. Sabretooth has some impressive accomplishments. Do u know any of the THing's accomplishments, asside from his appearance in Wolverine? I think his are much more impressive than Sabretooth's.

God, I hate Killpower

yeah I know a lot of things freaking feats...unfortunately standing up to adamantium claws unscathed isn't one of them....

again killpower stalemated herc...get over it.....it was a surprise that hulk KOed him....get over it......

and as far as feats are concerned....
"When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

Could u elaborate on what u know the Thing is capable of please? that wasnt very convincing.
Oh so it was inconsistent for Killpower to not stand a chance against professor Hulk, but it was well written when he stalemated hercules? How convenient when your argument is pro ST. Sabretooth isnt sh!t to the people the Thing has taken on and beaten. He may be harmed by Adamantium claws, but ST can be harmed by the Thing as well...And the Thing is known for going longer than ST when it comes to resilience.

(sigh) so I have to "prove" myself again? this is just ****ing rediculous.... thing's held his own against the hulk on nearly 10 or so occasions...he's even managed to defeat him once... he went toe to toe with champion of the universe and gave him a hell of a fight...one of the most impressive, and champ was laying out super heros left and right....after four or five times, champ began to realize pounding away at benn was worthless because he just would not stay down.... he held his own against the gladiator and was even able to pull one out over the silver surfer....on top of that him and his team had to face off against countless cosmic threats and even a super ermpowered doctor doom...that just speaks for itself.... benns generally stated to be somewhere in the class 85 to upper 80's range, but under extreme conditions has been able to show more strength...he had a mutation back in the (i think) early 80's and flat out humiliated the hulk...then beat something like 30 some super villains before finally reverting back to his previous form and getting unexpectedly smacked down by juggy.... he won beyonder's free-for-all...and during the course of secret wars knocked out half a dozen super-people with a thunderclap....it's been stated that his stamina should last approximately 1 or 2 hours before heavy lactic acids build up...but he has shown the ability to go on for about a day without any sign of serious fatigue.... his fighting ability is pretty high, he used to be a military pilot and even had a couple encounters with logan in his agent days...his fighting skills on battle savvy are what allows him to take it to the hulk consistantly....his speed and reflexes have not been hindered by his mutation but increased instead, he doesn't have a healing factor per-say but his ability to heal himself is far beyond the scope of human capabilities...hence how his face recovered from his disfigurment....

now back to our argument....hey man I'm just stating what has ****ing happened...nothing else! All I'm saying is killpower has shown both the strength and the duability that all class 100 characters should have, his feats back this up..... I said that he's as strong as herc and that hulk KOing him with a barrage of punches was surprising to the little guy that was watchin over killpower at the time....where you got "hulk KOing killpower is inconsistant" from, I have no idea.... you know as well as I do, that on hercs level he's just as capible of getting KOed by the hulk as he is without class 100 strength.. hell hulk's ran through herc while simultaniously fighting the entirety of the avengers....why would I think that it's inconsistant that he'd do the same to killpower? ...oh that's right I WOULDN'T! stop putting words into my mouth cause your own aren't affording you anything here.... the fact is killpower's demonstrated on multiple occasions to be at the level that I said and you really don't have anything to the contrary rather than a bunch of "nu-uh" arguments....like I said...get over it....

resilience...thing can last what? a day? wolverine fought sabretooth for an entire day before....wolverine's fought a battle that lasted 17 hours before.....sabretooth is his physical superior in every way...what does that tell you?

as far as inflicting damage or pain? Thing can inflict a lot of pain...sabretooth is accustomed to pain...he's even stated to get a kick out of it.....as far as bone sabes...the guy went in a punch for punch slugfest with mrs. marvel and was winning...HE WAS WINNING! even without adamantium and limited superstrength, he has incredible stamina and durability to allow him to maintain while she began to wear down.................now why can spiderman take class 100 punches without dying? because his enhanced physiology allows it due to super strength....sabretooth is now at spiderman's strength level....his strength wih up grades has increased 2 to 3 times.....it's safe to reason that his durability would too.....that given.....he would more than likely take thing hits just fine without his adamantium...with it....thing isn't doing anything to him with mere punches......he can cause pain...he can hold sabes back at best....but in the end all sabes needs is one good strike.....and he doesn't even need to make it a vital one....if thing grabs him, sabes can claw his wrists and his hands become useless....if thing hits him...the same....sabretooth can completely immobilize him and then kill him if he wants to....but having enhanced reflexes, superhuman speed which puts him at the very least on par with thing....at the very least.....and then giving him upgrades to boost those....while being a better fighter as well....thing's most likely gonna get hit in the face....a lot....sabretooth doesn't even need to hit him a lot...thing's durability may help him absorb blows...but like venom, where brute force doesn't exactly work, sharp objects should do the trick just fine....he doesn't have that rocky hide inside...his insides are still open to exploitation....so are sabes...but lets face it..wolverine fought hulk and had his muscles turned to jelly...they reformed before hulk landed the next blow.....sabretooth now has super strength to whether such blows and a faster acting healing factor......nothing grimm does can put him down long enough to claim any kind of victory.....while thing can't say the same about sabretooth...like I said his best shot is a lucky KO...sabretooth doesn't need luck to win this fight....

I got one question before I hit the hay, what chances do you see for thing, about a 4 or 5 of ten perhaps??

4 most likely...but that's due to his creativity and thunderclap which would buy him some time....he's not winning this fight trough mere kicks and punches however...

Whats a win, keeping him down long enough, ko'ing him (even though he gets back up), would be a win right?

if thing can KO him long enough to leave the battlegrounds then that's a win....i just don't think that he can though...

lol good night then

Thing possess average reflexes.Sabretooth possess superhuman reflexes, speed and reaction time.He can keep up with Spider-Man.He outclassess Logan.He's sufficiently strong to make his adamantium claws a major threat to the Thing.He can just sneak up on him and cut away his eyes, or slash his rocky skin until the rock side is sufficiently damaged he can start to stab the Thing's flesh.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Thing possess average reflexes.Sabretooth possess superhuman reflexes, speed and reaction time.He can keep up with Spider-Man.He outclassess Logan.He's sufficiently strong to make his adamantium claws a major threat to the Thing.He can just sneak up on him and cut away his eyes, or slash his rocky skin until the rock side is sufficiently damaged he can start to stab the Thing's flesh.

Thing possesses Superhuman reflexes, and is just as good a fighter as Sabertooth is, not to mention that he's about 30-40 times stronger. Sabertooth would get pounded.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Thing possesses Superhuman reflexes, and is just as good a fighter as Sabertooth is, not to mention that he's about 30-40 times stronger. Sabertooth would get pounded.
Thing during his fews fist to fist with Spider-Man wasn't able to catch him at the first hit.Sabretooth walked over Spider-Man.He's faster, he's more durable, thanks to adamantium and regenerative powers, plus he has more stamina, Thing may tire out at one point, but not Creed.Creed's claws used from a skilled hth fighter and killer like him are a deadly weapon, Creed's agility and leaping abilities also put him above Thing, who's not exactly agile and fast, and can't leap, flip or do acrobatic feats.

actually sabes is a good three or four classes above thing in the fighting ability department....thing has fast reflexes...sabretooth's are faster...and thanks to his upgrades, things only about 8 to 9 times stronger than sabes...which is practically nothing when faced against an adamantiumized wolverine-like character on steroids...

<<hell hulk's ran through herc while simultaniously fighting the entirety of the avengers....>.

psst, jinzin, no he didn't. herc and hulk fought 1on1 in that issue (it's where my pithy little quote comes from!) while the other avengers took a breather and 'discussed strategy'. that herc/hulk battle was a draw and the whole battle was interrupted by samson. hulk has never defeated a non-depowered herc. nor has herc beat hulk, to be fair . . .

sorry. just can't stand to me the prince of power disparaged like that. end interlude.

as far as this thread goes, i don't know enough about upgraded sabes to comment. wolvie certainly hurt ben with his claws in the face, but that REALLY pissed benjy off and wolvie paid for it. sabes appears far stronger now than wolvie though. still ben doesn't go down easy for no one. wish i was better informed. sounds like a good fight.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Thing possess average reflexes.Sabretooth possess superhuman reflexes, speed and reaction time.He can keep up with Spider-Man.He outclassess Logan.He's sufficiently strong to make his adamantium claws a major threat to the Thing.He can just sneak up on him and cut away his eyes, or slash his rocky skin until the rock side is sufficiently damaged he can start to stab the Thing's flesh.


Did he get an ACTUAL increase in speed to super-human levels or is this another 1 issue plothole induced power-up like Wolverine shrugging off its from the Beyonder?Because thats all the hairy guys ever seem to get in VS topics anymore

Originally posted by EvilCap America
Frst apperences-Wolvie is a normal guy with claws and fast healing while Sabertooth is getting his butt kicked by Black Cat

By the early 80s hes a ninja with an unbreakable skulliton and him and tooth' are a kind of canadian super-soldier

Late 80s Wolverine cant even be hurt by 10 strength level characters and tooth gets to become a uber-warrior in the Marauders

90s roll around and wolvie LOSES his andamantium then takes hits from Hulk without flinching and can nail Quicksilver.Sabertooth meanwhile starts pounding on anything that moves

21st century starts and Sabertooth can KO Rogue without effort while Wolverine routinely beats anything short of Gladiator

By 2010 Wolverine and Sabertooth will be cosmic beings marvel will then cancel any comic they dont appear and fight every issue in

I'm keeping this...hilarious...

Originally posted by leonidas
<<hell hulk's ran through herc while simultaniously fighting the entirety of the avengers....>.

psst, jinzin, no he didn't. herc and hulk fought 1on1 in that issue (it's where my pithy little quote comes from!) while the other avengers took a breather and 'discussed strategy'. that herc/hulk battle was a draw and the whole battle was interrupted by samson. hulk has never defeated a non-depowered herc. nor has herc beat hulk, to be fair . . .

sorry. just can't stand to me the prince of power disparaged like that. end interlude.

as far as this thread goes, i don't know enough about upgraded sabes to comment. wolvie certainly hurt ben with his claws in the face, but that REALLY pissed benjy off and wolvie paid for it. sabes appears far stronger now than wolvie though. still ben doesn't go down easy for no one. wish i was better informed. sounds like a good fight.

if that how it went down?

my bad...I haven't read that comic in years...i remember the avengers on the sidelines cause hulk was whoopin em...and I remember herc doing a lot of bounding around, but trying to avoid hulk head on..... in either case I'm glad you corrected me cause it only helps to further my point.....thanks for keepin me honest though...

Originally posted by jinzin
actually sabes is a good three or four classes above thing in the fighting ability department....thing has fast reflexes...sabretooth's are faster...and thanks to his upgrades, things only about 8 to 9 times stronger than sabes...which is practically nothing when faced against an adamantiumized wolverine-like character on steroids...

Not so fast... Again i have to refer to marvel.com. You can't not take marvels own descriptions of their characters on their own site, and then say that you have to believe in whatever happens in a certain writers version of the character in a particular storyline.


Ben wins this one relatively easy per marvel.com


Their #s

Ben's Sabe's

INT 2 2
STR 6 4
SPD 2 2
DUR 6 4
ENRGY PROJ 1 1
FGHT SKLL 5 5


Ben is equal to Sabe in every category and 2 better in 2 important spots STRG, DUR.

It will be over quickly. If not nobody's got more heart than Ben.

Ben wins

Attached Image (Click for original):

Originally posted by EvilCap America
Did he get an ACTUAL increase in speed to super-human levels or is this another 1 issue plothole induced power-up like Wolverine shrugging off its from the Beyonder?Because thats all the hairy guys ever seem to get in VS topics anymore

Agreed 100%.

Did you see what Sabertooth did to the Wendigo?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Agreed 100%.

Did you see what Sabertooth did to the Wendigo?
What he did to him?

Cap is the funniest poster here now!!

Sabes killed Wendigo apperantly. It was in his last mini.