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Who will win?

Alright Dude's I'm New
Don't worry I'm not going to announce that very time i reply.

I've noticed that threads like this one rarely get many replys.
I'm sure loads of people are going to reply now to make me eat my words.

Any way my point is that although Apocalypse was made out to be Mega Powerful in those X-Men cartoons i ve never heard of him displaying power in the comics to suggest that he is any way near on the same power level as Count Nefaria.

You could argue him taking over the world or America or what ever it was is pretty impressive. But I see this as more of a plot device rather than a feat of power. I'm mean really how would he actually hurt Nefaria.

In volume 3 of the Avengers (Which i believed to be a powered down version of the Avengers. I mean no one really did anything that impressive through out the series) Nefaria shrugged of a blast that would have destroyed a mountain. He then went on to beat the crap out of most of the Avengers and the Thunderbolts. I Know this is real fan boyism but its true

To my Knowledge i don't Think Apocalypse can give out punnish ment on this scale.

Back to my original point the reason that people don't really reply to threads like these is because people are unaware of what these characters are really capable of.

Could some one post some info on Apoc and what he is capable of. To make this debate more interesting. (Please)

The writer of this thread should have specified that Apocalypse be at the level that Louise Simonson originally intended/wrote him as. Then this would be a fight.

sorry, i know a lot about apoc but all i know about nefaria are his powers. i know a lot about apoc but not about the count

Wow Mann i got a reply, I'm well happy

Umm Dark Thor i tell you what i know about Nefaria if you share what you have on Apocalypse.

And please don't post one of those crapy explanations given by the Marvel Directory. I've already read the one on Apoc.

Anyway back to Nefaria.

In his first Appearance he lifted two Multi storey buildings, One of which he threw at the avengers the other he used to block one of those worm hole thingys that Thor can create with Moljnir. He also stopped Thor's hammer when it was thrown at him. Not many people can do that. The only two other people I have seen do that are Superman (In the JLA crossover) and Iron Man when he was suped up on the same power source as Moljnir.

In the Iron-man Annual 99 he threw an oil tanker at Tony and then picked up a Huge mountain sized object rock. (By the way i haven't seen either of these i have just read about them, if anyone has images of him doing this please share.)

The only comics i have read with Apocalypse are some of the AOA and the story when he was collecting the twelve mutants to become some amazing God that was beyond the Celestial's. So i don't really have much ground to comment on how powerful he is. He doesn't do anything that impressive in either. But i think he is a Badass character who should be brought back to life and truely shown to be the power house he should be.

Count has somehat a better rep and feats. Apoc was a beast when was first introduced at marvel but later showing lowered that.

Im going with the count on this one.

And yahman im a newbie myself. Welcome aboard.

Cheers Dude (OLympian Guy i mean)
Umm whose this Louise Simonson Chick?
and what did he do in his first apperances ?

Apart from Magneto and the X-Men who else has he fought and beat?

Which version of Nefaria is it Avengers 166 or his later appearances against the avengers and Tbolts

Louise Simoson is Walters Simosons wife and creator of Apoc.

I'm not too sure mate i didn't create the thread.
I kinda of see them as the same character although isn't the T-bolts version a resurrection of Nefaria?
Aren't Ionic people immortal in a sense?

Apart from the strength i think Nefaria show some pretty impressive displays of durability as well.

Originally posted by yahman
Cheers Dude (OLympian Guy i mean)
Umm whose this Louise Simonson Chick?
and what did he do in his first apperances ?

Apart from Magneto and the X-Men who else has he fought and beat?

Apocalypse defeated Celesital, had the upper hand against High Evolutionary, had the upper hand agaitsn Loki (Loki escaped, seeing he can't win), had the upper hand against Ikaris (he escaped seeing he can't win, he blew ship up) and was given cosmic status.

And is trounced by the X-Men....

He was a beast when he showed up but lately.....its like Darkseid really.

Yeah.

But I've never been a fan of mutants... they're so overrated!

Just cause you're an albino dwarf with eleven toes doesn't qualify you to take on The Man of Steel!

Same applies here.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Apocalypse defeated Celesital, had the upper hand against High Evolutionary, had the upper hand agaitsn Loki (Loki escaped, seeing he can't win), had the upper hand against Ikaris (he escaped seeing he can't win, he blew ship up) and was given cosmic status.

ok, when did Apoc defeat a Celestial? What issue number? What storyline? I heard some crap talk about that before in a GAMBIT comic, but no such scene existed. So where was this Celestial fight?

When did he fight the High Evolutionary ?

I know he is supposed to be Mega powerful and he has done some amazing things but hasn't he been beaten by Sinister and the Hulk. Neither of these Characters would really have much of a chance against Nefaria. (High Evolutionary)

And i doubt he beat a celestial's. I mean isn't the Tech body suit he uses, made by the celestial. And wasn't it made thousands of years ago. I know these guys are pretty ancient but they probably update their equipment every thousand years or so. Apoc's armour probably out of date now.

In the gathering of the Twelve he gives reference to becoming as powerful as the 'almighty celestial' which kinda suggests he isn't quite at their level yet.

I dont think he ever beat a celestial. Just stealing some of theyr tech.

If he did it was either hyperbole or off panel.

Apoc did beat Hulk tho. But then again as a top villain with his powerset he should.

Most peeps will agree That Franklin Richards is the most powerful mutant out there.

Isn't there a story of a Celestial telling him what to do with his pocket universe and him doing just what he is told. They have got to be pretty Dammn powerful if someone who is bad ass enough create a universe in his pocket is taking orders from them.

I Don't think there is anyone out there who reckons that APoc is on the same level as Franklin.

You're right about the Hulk though. There aren't though any images of him subdueing the Hulk though which kinda sucks.

That would be a heck of a fight.

About Franklin that happened during all the heroes reborn stuff methinks.

ABout Apoc subduing Hulk. There are images of that. It was shown on panel. The fight didnt last long.

Now if i remember where i saw a scan of that ill show....

Sweet!!!!!!!!!1

Celestail landed, Apocalypse crushed him and than took his ship.
Now, Richards is the most powerful mutant. About Apocalypse Vs. Hulk has been told already. Apocalypse has been figthing an opponents alone who are far above whole X-Men team combined. Now people, Apocalypse being trounced by X-Men, tell me (espeacilly you ZephroCarnelian) where has Apocalypse been beaten by them because of their powers, when they did trounce him, overpowered him, beat him. Yes I am right, no where, his plan is screwed or he is weak, and now to remember you, even in his weakest state, he took out X-Men under 1 minute.

Xplosive. Was there any real confrontation with the celestial at all? All i remember is that he stole a ship of theyrs. The celestia lwas there granted. Showed on panel. But he didnt tried anything at all. Its like he didnt cared.

Of course i might be forgetting some pages

Yes, he hurted Celestial badly.

No the 166 Avengers was much more powerful and not an ionic vampire Originally posted by yahman
I'm not too sure mate i didn't create the thread.
I kinda of see them as the same character although isn't the T-bolts version a resurrection of Nefaria?
Aren't Ionic people immortal in a sense?

Apart from the strength i think Nefaria show some pretty impressive displays of durability as well.

Wait a minute...NOW I know what you're talking about. That wasn't a Celestial, that was SAUL, who is an External. Saul revealed the location of the celestial ship to Apocalypse and said, "See, you think you're so bad, but there are things beyond even you. I dare not enter", at which point Apocalyse blasted Saul, saying something to the effect of, "that's why I'm me and you're you" and entered the Ship and took off with it.

Saul is NOT a Celestial.

Like I know, Celestial came down, took the human body, became asian conquer, Apocalypse beat him.

But then he wasent at celestial level. Its still a huge feat dont get me wrong. Apoc should get more respect but its not the same than beating a real celestial ya know

Apocalypse says....http://www.geocities.com/x_villains/apocalypse/apoccy7.wav