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Let's here some thoughts on Jedi/Sith that were overrated and underrated and give reasons. I have one:
Underrated
Darth Sidious: He defeated Yoda but people still say he didn't because the overrate Yoda. They say he lost to Mace but didn't Sidious try everything he could to turn Anakin so wouldn't he want to seem defenseless?
Now let's hear some more.

No, it's more like we rate them how they are and people like you don't want them to be weaker than others so you say the ones who are stronger are overrated.

Why do people think Yoda is more powerful than Sidious? Sidious was thrown across the room by a Force push from Yoda. It took Sidious' Force lightning to do that to Yoda. Look at when Sidious is throwing the senate pods at Yoda, he simply dodges them and catches one, twirls it around and throws it back at Sidious. He couldn't do anything to stop it and Yoda threw back Sidiuos' Lightning with his bare hands. If Yoda hadn't been so close he wouldn't have fallen and it's pure luck that he didn't have anything else to land on like Sidious. Also note how Sidious tried to run away and how Yoda left because the clone troopers were coming.

As for Mace, there's hardly proof that he would've let all that happen just in the off chance that that would be the only thing to turn Anakin.

Sidious ran because he doesn't take chances. He doesn't know if he could take Yoda and using the terrian isn't weak its showing your smart.

Overated: Revan; Plo Kloon( Plo Loser) ( no pun intended not that there is a pun); SS( everbody says he sucks but he sucks more then what people say); JAr JAr ( same reason as SS)
Underated: Obi; kenobi; ben; obi won; obi won kenobi; ben kenobi

Sidious doesn't take chances eh? Well than he sure wouldn't have let Mace come that close to killing him now would he?

Sidious did use the terrain to his advantage and I'm not arguing he won, but that is why most people think Yoda's more powerful, not necessarily smarter.

plo koon is WAY too overrated.

sidious is underrated.

revan is the most overrated piece of crap in the SW universe.

maul is underrated.

Overated: Darth Revan, Darth Vader.
Underrated: Kit Fisto, Kyle Katarn.

yes i also forgot to mention that maul and sidiuos are underated and was to busy of thinking of saying obi won kenobi in different ways so yes those two are underated too. and so is QGJ

Here's one:
Count Dooku
Ever since ROTS people say he's not as good as people think but he was told to lose and that Sidious would save him.

Overrated: Darth Revan, Plo Koon, Tulak Hord

Underrated: Kyle Katarn (look up underrated and he's bound to be there), Palpatine, and Darth Vader...

Kyle is very underrated.

Overrated: Kyle Katarn. He really isnt that good everyone. He fought some rouge Jedi. He killed a few retards and saved the Valley of the Jedi. Doesn't really show he's powerful.

Overrated: NJO Luke. He isnt a god. He cant control black holes easily. The're actually not black holes, the're dovin basals. Yes, he is powerful.

Overrated: Plo Koon. I think people just like his name and think he looks cool. He is pretty powerful, but he isn't that powerful.

Overrated: Sidious. He sucked. He lost to Mace. He defeated Yoda with help from clones and the fact that Yoda wasn't trying to kill him! Really, he wasn't. He was trying to distract him so that Obi-wan could kill Anakin. He failed because he knew he didn't give Obi-wan enough time. If Palpatine had arrived a little while later, Anakin would have died. No Vader. If Yoda had killed Sidious there would have been a civil war. Anakin dies, no problem. Remember, Yoda still served the Republic.

Underrated: RotJ Luke. Luke is actually very powerful by now. He blocked Sidious lightning for a second. He chocked two Gammoreans(just like Yoda did to those two Royal Guards. History repeats itself.). He DEFEATED Vader. Sure Vader was holding back a bit, but he still defeated him. Yes, he beat a crippled old man(I guess that doesnt really help me case.). That was actually his third encounter with Vader. ESB and Mimban.

Underrated: Kyp Durron. He's second to Luke in the NJO. He lost to that slayer, but he was also able to control dovin basals. He defeated Luke on the top of the Massasi Temple with only a few weeks experince.(Corran proved Kyp had some control when he was 'posessed' by Exar.)

Underrated: Joruus C'baoth. One of the most underrated characters ever. He controled the minds of 37000 people with ease. He could shoot massive beams of force lightning. It took Luke and Mara to kill him, even when he was distracted.

Underrated: Naga Sadow. He has just recently become underrated actually. He used to be considered really powerful, not he is considered very weak because we dont know a lot about him. He could though STARS for pete sake. He got his own tomb on Korriban.(He wasn't in there though.)

Underrated: Darth Bane. He looks like a retard, but out of thousands of Jedi and many Sith, he was the only one to survive. Sure the bomb wasnt aimed for the Sith, but it still killed many Sith. (I think that Lord Hoth was the strongest person on Rusaan at that time.)

Thank you for your reasons.

that is complete crap becuase yoda wasn't servign the republic any more. omg that is crap. it smells like it. it sounds like it. yoda lost. there is a card game called star wars trivia and on one of the cards (# 252 i think) it says who LOST the battle in the senate room. It says YODA.( thanx to DAN the MAn for info i love you) sidiuos is very underated. he fooled all the jedi from under their noses. he controls the strings of darth vadar. darth vadar was his puppet. he lost to mace on purpose he could of easily killed him. he did force lightning. if he did force push instead boom mace would of flew out the window and died. he scarred himself on purpose. to look weak. omg omg omg omg omg that was the biggest crap i saw at in these forums EVA.

Nice call Clawed.

snake eyes is right.

Darth Vader is underated all, because of his speed, but his skills with a lightsaber are great and his Force is strong even after losing all those midi-chlorians. Remeber he did take on Jedi way after the Republic fell...not everyone of them was killed during Order 66.

Overrated: NJO Luke, ROTJ Luke, Yoda, Mace Windu, Darth Revan, (By most, they put him up their with NJO Luke as Gods) Darth Maul.




Underrated: Malak,( He could probably last about as long as Mace did fighting Sidious) Dooku, (In the fight in ROTS, he wasn't fighting his best. You could tell from the difference in the way he fought from Episode 2 to Episode 3) Ben Kenobi, (ANH Kenobi. The only reason why he dided so lame was because he chose to let Darth Vader kill him easily). That's about all.

Underrated:
Jerec
He was a Dark Jedi...so? His title doesn't make him weaker. He mastered the darkside as well as any other Sith Lord and he was a Jedi Master for the Old Republic but didn't fight in the Clone War. Jerec is powerful but underrated.

nihilus is underrated in terms of lightsaber and force use all people see him as is a forec eater for him to become a sith lord he must have been a skilled force or if not and lightsaber duelist sory about going off topic here but did kotor 2 break the rule of to there was three sith lords traya nihilus and sion

Maul=Underrated
Mace Windu=Overrated

overrated revan is just cause some fans exhagerate his powers.
Vader is too cause he never eached his full potential and somepeople just don't get that and i have ti say all the ancient sith lords its not like every sith lord is superduper uber powerful. and plo koon is too.

underrated kenobi sidous is i mean he DID over throw the republic none of that almost crap he did. those are just off the top of my head.

and NJO luke even though i'm not a big fan of him everyone that says he's overrated he isnt. he IS the most powerful force user he's supposed to be. doesnt it make sense that anikin skywalker had the highest midchlorian count and if reached full potential the most powerful force user ever that his sone would have a huge midichlorian count too? and he did reach his full potential so it would make him uber powerful too would it not? thats my views and remember i'm not a big fan of NJO luke so don't say i'm just one of those fans that makes him overrated i just used common sense.

I can tell by reading some of these post that ROTJ Luke Skywalker is way underrated. Some seem to ignore the fact that he's a full fledge Jedi Knight during this time. And his saber skills are fine, there the way they're suppose to be. He doesn't swing his lightsaber like a baseball bat, because he has no skills its because that is his lightsaber skill. He uses Form V, which is a Form used to over come your opponent with brute force and wide swings. He fights just the way he should.

Overrated: Mace Windu
Underrated: Dooku

Overrated: Sidious, he isn't as good as Yoda is and people make him out to be way better then he was. He was good and smart but not a fighter and could not match the ancient Sith Lords.

Overrated: ROTJ Luke, he was barely a knight and already he could beat an really powerful force user? My ass

Overrated: Desann, seriously just read the Revan vs Desann thread you will see what I mean

Overrated: Kyle Katarn, he isn't all that good people. He was nice and all but he was no match for anybody like luke.

Overrated: NJO Luke, he's good but he's no god. Maybe one of the most powerful force users ever but even he can't beat everybody seriously.

Overrated: Revan, some people think he is just to powerful he can't defeat the entire universe. Maybe when Kotor 3 comes out, but at this time he can not.

Underrated: Revan, yeah I actually think he's underrated by many people here who refuse to see that what he did was actually impressive and just don't like him because some people here think he could beat almost everybody or just everybody. A lot of others here think he is to powerful.

Underrated: Darth Vader, a lot of people think he is weak because his style looks stupid and he moves so slow. It was the way the movies were made back then, and he still impressed me. More then many a Jedi in the PT did. Vader still owns, his command of the force is still amazing.

Underrated: Bandon, he became the apprentice of Malak over several Jedi Council members. That makes you powerful, whether people like it or not. Bandon was good.

Underrated: Ulic Qel Droma, some people seem to think he isn't all that good. Ulic rocks sock puppets for lunch. He owns.

Okay thats about all I can think of right now.

Overrated: Exar kun

Originally posted by Fishy
Overrated: ROTJ Luke, he was barely a knight and already he could beat an really powerful force user?

We have just underestimated him. Luke may not look like much, but he's got it where it counts

i have been gone for a while and i wanted to see if anyone agrees with me that if sidiuos did a force push he could of easily kileld mace cuz everyone knows that sidiuos is more powerful then windu when it comes to force? i just thaught of that before i posted my last thread

Yeah I'm sure he would but has Sidious ever done Force Push in the movies?

Originally posted by Fishy
Overrated: Sidious, he isn't as good as Yoda is and people make him out to be way better then he was. He was good and smart but not a fighter and could not match the ancient Sith Lords.

Overrated: ROTJ Luke, he was barely a knight and already he could beat an really powerful force user? My ass

Overrated: Desann, seriously just read the Revan vs Desann thread you will see what I mean

Overrated: Kyle Katarn, he isn't all that good people. He was nice and all but he was no match for anybody like luke.

Overrated: NJO Luke, he's good but he's no god. Maybe one of the most powerful force users ever but even he can't beat everybody seriously.

Overrated: Revan, some people think he is just to powerful he can't defeat the entire universe. Maybe when Kotor 3 comes out, but at this time he can not.

Underrated: Revan, yeah I actually think he's underrated by many people here who refuse to see that what he did was actually impressive and just don't like him because some people here think he could beat almost everybody or just everybody. A lot of others here think he is to powerful.

Underrated: Darth Vader, a lot of people think he is weak because his style looks stupid and he moves so slow. It was the way the movies were made back then, and he still impressed me. More then many a Jedi in the PT did. Vader still owns, his command of the force is still amazing.

Underrated: Bandon, he became the apprentice of Malak over several Jedi Council members. That makes you powerful, whether people like it or not. Bandon was good.

Underrated: Ulic Qel Droma, some people seem to think he isn't all that good. Ulic rocks sock puppets for lunch. He owns.

Okay thats about all I can think of right now.


i agree with you alot on this post especially about revan and you know you're right about vader he did have command of the force like a fat kid and a cupcake.

Fat kid.

Originally posted by Clawed The Bum
i have been gone for a while and i wanted to see if anyone agrees with me that if sidiuos did a force push he could of easily kileld mace cuz everyone knows that sidiuos is more powerful then windu when it comes to force? i just thaught of that before i posted my last thread

I doubt it, force attacks can be blocked with a lightsaber... Besides lightning is more powerful and that failed too.

But the lighting was blocked by a lightsaber and when Obi and Anakin did force push on each other they were both thrown back.

Yeah but what was blocking the push again? Oh yeah nothing but another Push.

Still the force from a push would push Mace back and lighting would shick him till Sidious throw him.

push would of killed him and yes he did do force push in the movies. remember when he force pushed those senate seat things vs yoda. in order to do that you must need some pretty powerful force pushage. when has mace even every do a force moce eva besides force jump? i dont think that mace is even that good in the force but then again i am only asuming. but i am preddy sure like 95% that sidiuos can do a better force push then mace. anackin and obi are both excellent fighters and their force powers are both equally high so the force push effected both of them. i am sure that if mace windu did a force push ( assuming he has enough time to) that sidiuos's force push will over power him and through mace windu out the window and kill him.

come to think of it alot of SW characters are both overrated and underrated. the most of which are Revan and NJO luke and the reason is the same for both some people like them so much they exahgerate or even lie about their powers and skills but the at the same time people are ignorant to the fact that like fishy said wont admit what they did was quite impressive.

and those arent the only ones either just IMO the main ones.

Overrated-revan-His powers are not nearly as good as everyone says..I mean he would died to that starship blast if not for the mercy of the jedi.

Overrated-NJO luke-He is defeated by a dathromir witch, almost killed by shimmra if not for jacens healing, his spirit torn from his body by the spirit of exar kun, completely knocked out by sekot, and lost in a sparring match with leia and intellectually owned by vergere. He is not as great as everyoen thinks.

Overrated-Marka ragnos- He reigned for 200 years..impressive but he had no one of significance to challenge him and when he came back and possessed that sith master in jedi acedemy he was defeated by jaden korr..


Overrated-Yoda-People make excuses for him but the fact is he lost to sidious and would probably lose to vader as well thats why he didnt kill him himself.

Underrated-Vader-He lost some of his that he had as anakin but makes up for it with experience and dark side power, he is stronger as vader than anakin and could only lose at that time to luke or palpatine.

underrated-Palpatine-He did nto lsoe to mace, he is a master manipulator and simply manipulated mace to benefit him in turning anakin, once that was done he easily tossed mace out the window. And he did defeat yoda, yoda himself says"failed I have" it doesnt get any clearer than that.

underrated-dooku-He did not lose to anakin, he was manipulated by palpatine to "lose" to anakin and if anakin tried to kill dooku he would step in ofcourse he did not. dooku was almsot as strong as sidious himself as he has already defeated mace before and held off yoda.

um sidous didnt know that anakin was even coming mace beat him

Read the book...palpatine knew anakin was coming mace was just a pawn in his plan.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Overrated-revan-His powers are not nearly as good as everyone says..I mean he would died to that starship blast if not for the mercy of the jedi.

Overrated-NJO luke-He is defeated by a dathromir witch, almost killed by shimmra if not for jacens healing, his spirit torn from his body by the spirit of exar kun, completely knocked out by sekot, and lost in a sparring match with leia and intellectually owned by vergere. He is not as great as everyoen thinks.

Overrated-Marka ragnos- He reigned for 200 years..impressive but he had no one of significance to challenge him and when he came back and possessed that sith master in jedi acedemy he was defeated by jaden korr..


Overrated-Yoda-People make excuses for him but the fact is he lost to sidious and would probably lose to vader as well thats why he didnt kill him himself.

Underrated-Vader-He lost some of his that he had as anakin but makes up for it with experience and dark side power, he is stronger as vader than anakin and could only lose at that time to luke or palpatine.

underrated-Palpatine-He did nto lsoe to mace, he is a master manipulator and simply manipulated mace to benefit him in turning anakin, once that was done he easily tossed mace out the window. And he did defeat yoda, yoda himself says"failed I have" it doesnt get any clearer than that.

underrated-dooku-He did not lose to anakin, he was manipulated by palpatine to "lose" to anakin and if anakin tried to kill dooku he would step in ofcourse he did not. dooku was almsot as strong as sidious himself as he has already defeated mace before and held off yoda.

Shimera is really powerful. Imagine the Dark Lord of the Sith of another species. He is overratd though, just not as much as you say.

She was a member of a Cult. They werent powerful force users because Jaden, a padawon was able to kill hundreds of them. They were basiclly soilders with Lightsabers. Wikipedia also says that Ragnos' spirit was so powerful that is destroyed her body to a large degree before they even fought. He also wasn't even CHALLENGED by Naga Sadow on his DEATHBED. I could kill anyone on their deathbed pretty much, but a guy who can destroy stars, which didnt even take him along time to do or any help from others, was afraid to fight him on his DEATHBED.

The OT Vader is underrated, the PT one isnt.

Your overrating Palpatine. He wouldnt put himself in that kind of a situation to get a new apprentice. He lost to Yoda. He kept running away. He was clearly beaten in force skills. Yoda was more powerful, he just lost his lightsaber, had a lot of clones coming, and wasn't trying to kill him. I dont think he wanted another Civil War, the death of Palpatine at that time would have destroyed the Republic, a war worse than the Clone Wars would have ensued, plus, Palpatine was keeping the clones in line. He fought horribly in ep3. Yoda just wanted to give Obi-wan time to kill Anakin. He failed because he was unable to delay Sidious from getting to Anakin untill Anakin died if Obi-wan was unable to finish him.

Imagine the clones doing as they pleased. Imagine A civil war in the Republic with clones doing as they please. This is what would have happened if Yoda had killed Sidious. Yoda doesnt want this. He knows Anakin could become more powerful than him, so he tries to have Obi-wan kill him. Yoda was the council head and look at how easily Mace beat Sidious. Yes, he beat him. Sidious wouldnt go into that position for Anakin to join him. He had the clones. He was leader of the Republic. There was plenty of time to get a new apprentice with the Jedi out of the way. He was living large at that point.

I agree with you on Dooku. He was just pretending to loose. Look at the way he fights from ep2 to ep3. It greatly declines in ep3. When Sidious tell Anakin to kill him, he thinks to himself in the book, "Treachery is the way of the Sith". He could have beaten Anakin.

Overrated: Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Tulak Hord, Darth Nihilus, Darth Bandon. Knowing one thing about them doesn't make them all powerful.

Underrated: Darth Revan merely because many refuse to believe his power like Fishy said. Many rate him just fine.

Underrated: ROTJ Luke, Darth Maul, Bastila.

Somebody who is way overrated is Jar-Jar Binks. I mean that's really saying something cause I know that we would all would like to strangle him to death. We should hate him MORE!!!!! Muhahahahaha!!!!

*yawns*.....sleep1

force push would of killed mace windu. i can't bieleve you can't see that. sidiuos is greater then mace when it comes to the force. if you are too aragont to see that and admit it then i won't argue with. there would be no point in it. i would lose (notice the quote)

Too arrogant? I listed several reasons and you haven't listed any so I would say you're stubborn.

Emperor Revan, I agree with you on your underrated ones, but Marka is underrated also. The reason that Jaden was able to defeat him was because he was so powerful he was destroying her body just by posesing it. She would have died soon anyway. If I can find the link I'll post it.

Bandon is underrated also. He basicly became what Darm Maul was in ep1. He was the second most powerful in the Sith Empire at that time. He had killed tons of Jedi also. I know you like Revan, so I think you will agree with him being easy from that point of view.

Tulak is about rightly rated by most I think, but Nihilus is very overrated. He isnt able to eat people in one second, it takes time. The more powerful the perosn, the longer it takes. Naga Sadow is also about right, maybe even underrated. He destroyed a star without hours of meditation or help from some weird staff or anything. He just blew it up. That relects on the rest of his power.

Bandon was a real sissy IMHO.

Well, your wrong. He was fighting Revan for petesake. Even Luke or Yoda would lose to Revan.

Overrated: NJO Luke. He's Luke Skywalker. And the son of the Chosen One. But he's not a damn god. Last time I checked, he could still get hurt and he still had weaknesses. He's easily one of the most powerful people in Star Wars - but don't treat him like he's invincible.

Overrated: Revan. Revan has been compared to NJO Luke by multple people and is considered to be the Sith god. Yep, he was very smart. Yep, he was a very powerful Sith Lord. But in terms of accomplishments, he gets his ass handed to him by Palpatine.

Overrated: Yoda in any Yoda vs. Sidious duel.

Underrated: Yoda in any Revan vs. Revan duel.

Overrated: Palpatine. This guy was smarter than any Sith Lord before him, and was the only one to accomplish the Sith's goals. ONLY person. Revan didn't do it. Exar didn't. Marka didn't. Palpatine did. ONLY Palpatine.

Underrated: That guy in AOTC that was selling death sticks. He was the strongest in the galaxy.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Overrated: NJO Luke. He's Luke Skywalker. And the son of the Chosen One. But he's not a damn god. Last time I checked, he could still get hurt and he still had weaknesses. He's easily one of the most powerful people in Star Wars - but don't treat him like he's invincible.

Overrated: Revan. Revan has been compared to NJO Luke by multple people and is considered to be the Sith god. Yep, he was very smart. Yep, he was a very powerful Sith Lord. But in terms of accomplishments, he gets his ass handed to him by Palpatine.

Overrated: Yoda in any Yoda vs. Sidious duel.

Underrated: Yoda in any Revan vs. Revan duel.

Overrated: Palpatine. This guy was smarter than any Sith Lord before him, and was the only one to accomplish the Sith's goals. ONLY person. Revan didn't do it. Exar didn't. Marka didn't. Palpatine did. ONLY Palpatine.


you do realize that revan wasn't tryin to rule the galaxy, or take it over for "The Sith" but to build it up to save the entire galaxy from what he believed a more pwerful threat. and ya some people do look at revan and overrate him a ton but he accomplished alot and it was impressive to say the least no way in hell sidious could have done that.

Originally posted by General Zodiac
Underrated: That guy in AOTC that was selling death sticks. He was the strongest in the galaxy.



He sells some good death sticks alright...

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, your wrong. He was fighting Revan for petesake. Even Luke or Yoda would lose to Revan.

Firstly bandon wasnt fighting a full power revan, revan was still regaining his power, and second I believe yoda and perhaps luke would slaughter revan.

Well, the first step on the road to recovery is admitting it.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
you do realize that revan wasn't tryin to rule the galaxy, or take it over for "The Sith" but to build it up to save the entire galaxy from what he believed a more pwerful threat. and ya some people do look at revan and overrate him a ton but he accomplished alot and it was impressive to say the least no way in hell sidious could have done that.

Why defend the galaxy at all if its going to be messed up with the sith in control...revan is misguided I guess. Oh and sidious would have no trouble at all taking control of the galaxy if he lived in that time period, no need for stealth he would just walk in to the jedi council and kill all the jedi himself because from what Ive seen jedi were weak back then. The only trouble he would face is perhaps vandar but still hes no yoda.

Jedi were more powerful back then. You are seeing it from a different point of view. Revan's eyes are your eyes in this game.

Originally posted by Darth Somebody
Overrated: NJO Luke. He's Luke Skywalker. And the son of the Chosen One. But he's not a damn god. Last time I checked, he could still get hurt and he still had weaknesses. He's easily one of the most powerful people in Star Wars - but don't treat him like he's invincible.

Overrated: Revan. Revan has been compared to NJO Luke by multple people and is considered to be the Sith god. Yep, he was very smart. Yep, he was a very powerful Sith Lord. But in terms of accomplishments, he gets his ass handed to him by Palpatine.

Overrated: Yoda in any Yoda vs. Sidious duel.

Underrated: Yoda in any Revan vs. Revan duel.

Overrated: Palpatine. This guy was smarter than any Sith Lord before him, and was the only one to accomplish the Sith's goals. ONLY person. Revan didn't do it. Exar didn't. Marka didn't. Palpatine did. ONLY Palpatine.

Revan has less accomplishments than Palpatine? Yeah right. Palpatine conquered the galaxy by controlling the Republic and turning it, he didn't fight the Republic. Revan fought and defeated the Republic with his army. He had the galaxy at his feet but left to fight the ancient Sith empire. In either case, how would that help either of them in a fight? This is a versus forum, not who can conquer the Republic.

Revan has the highest level of Battle precog, has the Will power to resist the Dark side of an entire planet that no one else (not even Kreia) could resist, controlled a star, is perhaps the greatest tactician ever, has enormously high potential, plunders all the knowledge he could from the Jedi temples, he plundered tombs, relics, artifacts, and knowledge from a planet sized Sith storehouse of knowledge, learned dozens of ways to kill or turn Jedi/Sith, fights for 6 years straight as the leader of one of the main forces in the two different wars against powerful opponents, killing Mandalore and the strongest Echani, and was considered by Kreia (Revan's mentor who could kill three Jedi council members at the same time with one use of the Force) to be the heart of the Force.

Then he loses all that power and becomes a Jedi again, he plunders Korriban, including the tombs of four very powerful dark lords, gaining their artifacts, learning from Tulak's holocron, killing two tarentateks at the same time by himself when just one could easily kill a Jedi, he killed everyone in a Sith academy that he started, he killed the best bounty hunter at that time, a Sith Lord, he killed hundreds of dark Jedi and assassin droids, defeated and killed his apprentice Darth Malak at least twice in a row, and became even stronger than he was during his first reign (first paragraph).

Then he recovers all his memories and knowledge from Malachor V, the Jedi temples, etc. increasing his power greatly from the second paragraph, before he goes to fight the ancient Sith empire single handedly.

Now Palpy can't compete with those accomplishments in terms of power, not controlling the galaxy.

Oh, and I loved how you defended Palpatine right after you said he was overrated.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Well, the first step on the road to recovery is admitting it.

Exactly..

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Emperor Revan, I agree with you on your underrated ones, but Marka is underrated also. The reason that Jaden was able to defeat him was because he was so powerful he was destroying her body just by posesing it. She would have died soon anyway. If I can find the link I'll post it.

Bandon is underrated also. He basicly became what Darm Maul was in ep1. He was the second most powerful in the Sith Empire at that time. He had killed tons of Jedi also. I know you like Revan, so I think you will agree with him being easy from that point of view.

Tulak is about rightly rated by most I think, but Nihilus is very overrated. He isnt able to eat people in one second, it takes time. The more powerful the perosn, the longer it takes. Naga Sadow is also about right, maybe even underrated. He destroyed a star without hours of meditation or help from some weird staff or anything. He just blew it up. That relects on the rest of his power.

1. Jaden defeated Tavion/Ragnos pretty quick. It was because of Jaden destroying the scepter that released all the Force energy that Ragnos had no power and Tavion's body couldn't withstand that. If your body was holding a huge amount of energy and a spirit and both were suddenly snapped off then your body couldn't take it and would shut down.

Next, Ragnos hasn't done anything whereas Revan for instance we can list a page of his accomplishments.

2. Bandon had less than a year of training from Malak. Yes he killed some Jedi but look at the Sith apprentices from the Star Forge, three of them killed 3 Jedi. And like someone else said, Revan was at maybe a third of his power or something like that. He still had the rest of that planet, the Leviathan, another planet, the unknown world, the Star Forge, and his full memories to come back before he reached his full power. I'm not saying Bandon's a wuss, he could probably kill some Jedi masters but I don't think he can compare to Darth Maul who was trained from birth to be a Sith Lord.

3. I think Tulak is too high because it's just one person saying he's good. Kreia sure as hell didn't know Tulak and we haven't seen Tulak do anything. Sure he's got to be somewhat strong, but rating him as one of the most powerful ever, like in the top ten is ridiculous IMO. I agree with you about Nihilus but Naga used Sith magic to destroy the star, so I don't know how much Force power that would take. Next, it didn't help him much in his fight against Ludo. Again, I'm not saying any of these guys are weak, but I don't think they should be rated in the top 10 for instance with the possible exception of Ragnos who should in turn, be at the bottom of it.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Jedi were more powerful back then.

Anything to back up that statement? Yoda has been time and time again said to be the greatest jedi of all time and Kreia killed 3 or their "masters" so easily it was pathetic.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Anything to back up that statement? Yoda has been time and time again said to be the greatest jedi of all time and Kreia killed 3 or their "masters" so easily it was pathetic.

Who said Yoda was the greatest Jedi of all time? I and most others would have to disagree since most consider NJO Luke to be the most powerful Jedi of all time.

Force users in general (not all) are considered to be more powerful in earlier times because that's the golden age of Jedi and Sith. They had tons of knowledge and were constantly fighting in war which makes you stronger. Much of that knowledge was lost and Jedi in the "present" time don't fight nearly as much.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Who said Yoda was the greatest Jedi of all time? I and most others would have to disagree since most consider NJO Luke to be the most powerful Jedi of all time.

Force users in general (not all) are considered to be more powerful in earlier times because that's the golden age of Jedi and Sith. They had tons of knowledge and were constantly fighting in war which makes you stronger. Much of that knowledge was lost and Jedi in the "present" time don't fight nearly as much.

Yeah sorry I wasnt clear, yoda was stated to be the greatest jedi ever in old republic times before the empire and luke. Your right I rank NJO luke slightly over yoda as well. Moving on I dont believe the age has anything to do with power, the force certainly doesnt grow weaker. And battle experience only counts for so much, besides the OJO had the clone wars for battle experience. Since I havent seen a jedi from revans time do anything impressive I have to think there were no "out of the ordinary" jedi in this time besides revan himself.

No problem.

What do you consider impressive? What was impressive from the OJO? Besides, the clone wars only lasted 3 years. Woo hoo. Jedi from the OJO sat on their butts debating most of the time while Jedi from Revan's time were going off to fight the Mandalorians or the Sith.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Who said Yoda was the greatest Jedi of all time? I and most others would have to disagree since most consider NJO Luke to be the most powerful Jedi of all time.

Force users in general (not all) are considered to be more powerful in earlier times because that's the golden age of Jedi and Sith. They had tons of knowledge and were constantly fighting in war which makes you stronger. Much of that knowledge was lost and Jedi in the "present" time don't fight nearly as much.

mmhmm and wasnt alot of information that either got lost or destroyed.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
No problem.

What do you consider impressive? What was impressive from the OJO? Besides, the clone wars only lasted 3 years. Woo hoo. Jedi from the OJO sat on their butts debating most of the time while Jedi from Revan's time were going off to fight the Mandalorians or the Sith.

Well technically most of the order didnt go off to war only the jedi that left the order and followed revan helped the republic.

Ya, but the Order beat the Jedi that followed Revan, so they are probably better.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan



3. ...Kreia sure as hell didn't know Tulak...

Well, you never know. Does it ever actually state her age because she looks like she could have met him...

no it doesnt state her age but we do know it was close to the time that tulak could have been around i mean she does know alot about all the ancient sith on korriban. and because Darth Revan was the first sith to call himself Darth.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ya, but the Order beat the Jedi that followed Revan, so they are probably better.

When did that happen?

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
no it doesnt state her age but we do know it was close to the time that tulak could have been around i mean she does know alot about all the ancient sith on korriban. and because Darth Revan was the first sith to call himself Darth.

Kreia was a historian, she had a vast knowledge of jedi and sith lore.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
When did that happen?

The LS ending of KOTOR is canon(still havent found that link Emperor Revan). In it, Malaks Sith Empire is destroyed. Malak had the same empire as Revan, so the Order defeated the Jedi that went to fight with Revan.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Kreia was a historian, she had a vast knowledge of jedi and sith lore.

oh ya for some reason i always space out trayus academy. cuse didnt that have tons of information in it?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The LS ending of KOTOR is canon(still havent found that link Emperor Revan). In it, Malaks Sith Empire is destroyed. Malak had the same empire as Revan, so the Order defeated the Jedi that went to fight with Revan.

Umm It was revan who defeated malak, not the order.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
oh ya for some reason i always space out trayus academy. cuse didnt that have tons of information in it?

Yep

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The LS ending of KOTOR is canon(still havent found that link Emperor Revan). In it, Malaks Sith Empire is destroyed. Malak had the same empire as Revan, so the Order defeated the Jedi that went to fight with Revan.

lol, you read my mind. I was just about to ask you until I read the parentheses.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Umm It was revan who defeated malak, not the order.

He didn't say Malak got killed by the oder, he send the Jedi who followed Revan were killed by the Order.

Originally posted by HimoKun
He didn't say Malak got killed by the oder, he send the Jedi who followed Revan were killed by the Order.

The order didnt do much of anything..

Mace's battle with sidious was far too short to be all that interesting....sidious isn't all that great with a lightsaber....kit fisto dying inside 3 seconds, what's with that?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The LS ending of KOTOR is canon(still havent found that link Emperor Revan). In it, Malaks Sith Empire is destroyed. Malak had the same empire as Revan, so the Order defeated the Jedi that went to fight with Revan.

Revan killed the most powerful of them... Masters on the Rakatan homeworld, Malak Bandon hundreds of others. The Siths greatest assasins that went to face Revan all died by Revan.... What did the order finish except for some weak remaining Jedi that really don't matter all that much. Besides after Revan and Malak were both gone with one dead the Sith had no new ruler. Meaning countless of battles amongst the Stih themselves to decide a new ruler. The most powerful Sith were killed by Revan or by other Sith.. All the Jedi had to do was finish off the weaker ones. And they far from finished that.

Took the words from my mouth Fishy.

Beware, much of this is based on inferences. I might make a revised version if I get around to it.

I dont know how many Jedi followed Revan off to fight Mandalorians, but lets say it was about half. Since I also dont know the number of Jedi at the time of the Mandalorinan wars, lets say there are 5000. There were about 10000 at the time of ep1, but because of the Great Sith War, we can safely assume they only had 5000, maybe less than that even. That means 2500 followed Revan and lets say about half died in the war(bear with me). so Revan has 1250 after the war. He presumably recruits a lot I think that because one of the Masters in KOTOR (dont remember which one) said that Revans forces outnumbered them. There were 5000 Jedi 2500 Jedi left in the Order after Revans followers left so lets say 1000 of them went to follow Revan giving him 2350 and the Order 1500. Stay with me now, Revan has his people on Korriban recruit some guys(probably one or two hundred) and gives him 2500 Sith against the Orders 1500.

In KOTOR you kill probably around 300 of Malaks Sith(Revans former followers). that still leave 2200 for the Order to fight. I say that the Order did rather nicely against the Sith.

Well what's the point of all this anyway? It's not like any of those Sith or Jedi could've beaten Revan.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Beware, much of this is based on inferences. I might make a revised version if I get around to it.

I dont know how many Jedi followed Revan off to fight Mandalorians, but lets say it was about half. Since I also dont know the number of Jedi at the time of the Mandalorinan wars, lets say there are 5000. There were about 10000 at the time of ep1, but because of the Great Sith War, we can safely assume they only had 5000, maybe less than that even. That means 2500 followed Revan and lets say about half died in the war(bear with me). so Revan has 1250 after the war. He presumably recruits a lot I think that because one of the Masters in KOTOR (dont remember which one) said that Revans forces outnumbered them. There were 5000 Jedi 2500 Jedi left in the Order after Revans followers left so lets say 1000 of them went to follow Revan giving him 2350 and the Order 1500. Stay with me now, Revan has his people on Korriban recruit some guys(probably one or two hundred) and gives him 2500 Sith against the Orders 1500.

In KOTOR you kill probably around 300 of Malaks Sith(Revans former followers). that still leave 2200 for the Order to fight. I say that the Order did rather nicely against the Sith.


Actually around Revan's time I belive there were close to 40,000 maybe 35,000 Jedi. Half the Order was decimated in The Exar Kun War and Revan took close to 1/5 of the remaining Jedi with him. The reason there is only 10,000 Jedi during the era of the movies is because the Jedi had been nearly wiped out a thousand years before by Khann. The reason there were so many Jedi in Revan's time compaired to the era of the movies is because the Order before the New Sith Wars had about 15,000 years to develop.

Of course this only personal opinon.

Originally posted by Emperor Revan
Well what's the point of all this anyway? It's not like any of those Sith or Jedi could've beaten Revan.

Or malak for that matter.

Originally posted by Fishy
Revan killed the most powerful of them... Masters on the Rakatan homeworld, Malak Bandon hundreds of others. The Siths greatest assasins that went to face Revan all died by Revan.... What did the order finish except for some weak remaining Jedi that really don't matter all that much. Besides after Revan and Malak were both gone with one dead the Sith had no new ruler. Meaning countless of battles amongst the Stih themselves to decide a new ruler. The most powerful Sith were killed by Revan or by other Sith.. All the Jedi had to do was finish off the weaker ones. And they far from finished that.

What he said about the Order doing nothing during the war prompted me to do it.

Under-rated:

1. Obi-wan: Who would have thought he would sumhow beat "The Chosen One" Anakin

2. Qui-con-: Cant really think of a particular reason, i just think he is

3. Vader: He should have just crushed Palpatine & ran the empire instead of being a pawn

4. Palpatine: Well he turned "The Chosen One" against the Jedi, manipulated the Republic & The Senate, created an Empire from it, played Mace for a fool(making him think he was weakening), goes toe to toe with Yoda, uses Dooku as a sucker, undermines the clones from the Jedi, tricks Anakin into thinkin he could save Padme's life

5. Darth Sion: He slept with vibroblades, could regenerate himself, just a plain & simple bad-ass...he just wanted to kill

Over-rated:

1. Revan: sure he was good, but with everyone talkin all bout him, it just over-rates him

2. NJO Luke: same as Revan

3. Anakin: "The Chosen One" yet he couldnt beat Obi-Wan?.....wassupwitdat........ ?

4. Yoda: was he strong in the force..........yes, did he give Palpaltine all he could handle? yes & no.....he bought Obi-Wan time to defeat Anakin, but he could have gotten his saber back & finished off Palpatine, but chose not ......y?

5. Bastilia: Dunno y, but she justs sticks in my head as over-rated

Originally posted by darthrevan89
Actually around Revan's time I belive there were close to 40,000 maybe 35,000 Jedi. Half the Order was decimated in The Exar Kun War and Revan took close to 1/5 of the remaining Jedi with him. The reason there is only 10,000 Jedi during the era of the movies is because the Jedi had been nearly wiped out a thousand years before by Khann. The reason there were so many Jedi in Revan's time compaired to the era of the movies is because the Order before the New Sith Wars had about 15,000 years to develop.

Of course this only personal opinon.

The Great Hyperspace War probably took out a lot of the Jedi a thousand years earlier. 2000 years before the GHW there was the hundred year darkness. I currently dont know of any information on this other than it was 7000 years before the battle of Yavin. I think I read somewhere that the Jedi led society through it, but that may have been about something else. You can presume that namy Jedi were lost during the Hundred Year Darkness. Also, after the New Sith War, there were still many Jedi. It is just that all of the Jedi on Ruusan were wiped out. Well, maybe not because because the Republic was essentialy wiped out after this battle, but it if you look at it from how Luk's Acdemy was going, there must have still been a good number left after the war.

Please correct me if I have any wrong figures.

Luke had 100 by the start of the Yuuzhan Vong war. This is about 23 B.B.Y.. He formed the Academy about eight years B.B.Y. I believe. (I'm out of town and dont have access to my usual refrence material, so this is all by memory and it therefor somewhat unreliable.) That leaves about 15 years for 100 Jedi. This isnt Jedi Knights, by the way, about half are still probably about equal to a Old Republic Youngling except without a lightsaber. That leaves about 50 KNights in 15 years or about 3 Knights per year. over a thousand year period that makes only 3000 Jedi Knights. Since most of those were still in the first half of their life that makes about 6000 Jedi Knights. Since the more Jedi there are to teach, the more are trained, if the Jedi had wanted to they could probably have around 20000 by the start of the Clone Wars, but probably felt no need to become so numerous. I think that the KOTOR-era Jedi probably were only around 10000 also, maybe 15000.

Good points I never thought of.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Great Hyperspace War probably took out a lot of the Jedi a thousand years earlier. 2000 years before the GHW there was the hundred year darkness. I currently dont know of any information on this other than it was 7000 years before the battle of Yavin. I think I read somewhere that the Jedi led society through it, but that may have been about something else. You can presume that namy Jedi were lost during the Hundred Year Darkness. Also, after the New Sith War, there were still many Jedi. It is just that all of the Jedi on Ruusan were wiped out. Well, maybe not because because the Republic was essentialy wiped out after this battle, but it if you look at it from how Luk's Acdemy was going, there must have still been a good number left after the war.

Please correct me if I have any wrong figures.

Luke had 100 by the start of the Yuuzhan Vong war. This is about 23 B.B.Y.. He formed the Academy about eight years B.B.Y. I believe. (I'm out of town and dont have access to my usual refrence material, so this is all by memory and it therefor somewhat unreliable.) That leaves about 15 years for 100 Jedi. This isnt Jedi Knights, by the way, about half are still probably about equal to a Old Republic Youngling except without a lightsaber. That leaves about 50 KNights in 15 years or about 3 Knights per year. over a thousand year period that makes only 3000 Jedi Knights. Since most of those were still in the first half of their life that makes about 6000 Jedi Knights. Since the more Jedi there are to teach, the more are trained, if the Jedi had wanted to they could probably have around 20000 by the start of the Clone Wars, but probably felt no need to become so numerous. I think that the KOTOR-era Jedi probably were only around 10000 also, maybe 15000.

You seem to forget one thing here...

How many Jedi did Luke want to recruite? How much recruiters did he have walking around? How many people still accepted the force as a mayor part in their live? And more importantly after just facing Sidious how many would send their children to the Academy when the Jedi were hated.

During Kotor times or just before there were probably more recruiters, more people that liked the Jedi, more people that would want their child to become a Jedi.

I don't think the parents want their kids to go to become a Jedi unless their living conditions or something is horrible and they want their kid to have a better life.

Originally posted by General Zodiac
I don't think the parents want their kids to go to become a Jedi unless their living conditions or something is horrible and they want their kid to have a better life.

Every parent wants whats best for their kid, from what I have seen force sensitive children are going to be hard to raise. Parents would realise that their best option is to give the child to the Jedi Order. Yes a lot would not do so, but more would at that time then just after the rule of Sidious. And then there are still the Jedi that would explore a world where force sensitives are around see the child and "convince" the parents to give the child to the Jedi Order. More so then after Sidious.

Originally posted by Clawed The Bum
that is complete crap becuase yoda wasn't servign the republic any more. omg that is crap. it smells like it. it sounds like it. yoda lost. there is a card game called star wars trivia and on one of the cards (# 252 i think) it says who LOST the battle in the senate room. It says YODA.( thanx to DAN the MAn for info i love you) sidiuos is very underated. he fooled all the jedi from under their noses. he controls the strings of darth vadar. darth vadar was his puppet. he lost to mace on purpose he could of easily killed him. he did force lightning. if he did force push instead boom mace would of flew out the window and died. he scarred himself on purpose. to look weak. omg omg omg omg omg that was the biggest crap i saw at in these forums EVA. SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP! Every single post you make you sound more like some New York white trash stereotype. "omg that is crap. it smells like it. it sounds like it" What are you? Eleven? Jesus titty ****hing Christ! omg omg omg omg omg omg omg, you're a goddamn, obnoxious, dumbass. So just SHUT UP! GOD!

Sounds like SS to me.

Originally posted by General Zodiac
Sounds like SS to me.

you know you're right he does

Darth Maul, Jango, Boba are all extremly underrated

Count Dooku is underrated all because he was killed in ROTS when he was suppose to be defeated.

Before I post my opinion on who's overrated and underrated I'am going to admit that I'am a huge Yoda fan. But majority of you will probably be angered by what I will post so here it is.

Overrated: Yoda- simply because he's wise and revered doesn't make him all powerful and a god. Remember he failed to destroy or defeat Dooku in AOTC. From my understanding he failed his objective in the Sidious duel but I still think it to be a draw and from what we know Yoda with a jedi task force was defeated on Dathomir by the witches trying to regain the ship chu'unthor. If he was this all powerful being than he wouldn't have failed this much.

Underrated: Obi-Wan Kenobi- the poster boy of the jedi council and the hero of the Clone Wars. I think his lightsaber skills are highly underrated but some will say no simply because he was defeated by Dooku but Dooku was no slouch in my opinion. Secondly, I would say that Obi-Wan was probably the embodiment of what a jedi should be. Thirdly, why would Yoda hold Obi-Wan in such high esteem if he wasn't that good.

Plus why the council send Obi-Wan to kill Grievous if he sucked?

Most overrated is easily darth shitious.