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Palpatine still has the right to be Supreme Chancellor, even if he was recognized as a Sith.

What Mace and the other Jedi did was discrimination because they wanted to arrest Palpatine since he was a Sith. And according to Republic Law, stopping someone because of their religions or beliefs is discrimination. This is why what the Jedi did was treason.

It was explained in the novelization.

right-o

no. you are TOTALLY off the mark.

Mace always had it in for palpatine, because mace was black and palpatine was white. discrimination occured over who got the last piece of pizza, and mace snapped.

WOW, Arthur must have read a different book than I did.

Total Posts:
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http://img182.echo.cx/img182/7060/kmcshit9bj.gif

Originally posted by PVS
Total Posts:
52
Threads Started:
32

WOW

That really ain't a good ratio... at all.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f38/t352088.html

Here's why. Dooku told Obi about Sidious, Obi told Mace. Mace knew Palp was behind the war and everything at that point.

So what? It was still a Coup d'etat. It was straight treason

Originally posted by General Zodiac
Here's why. Dooku told Obi about Sidious, Obi told Mace. Mace knew Palp was behind the war and everything at that point.
Palpatine controlled the senate. So if there was a trial, he would get free. I'm totally with Mace.

Well i'm not. It was a Assasination attempt. It was just cuz Sidious was a Sith he thought Palpie had to die. Mace deserved his death. There's still one jedi who still thinks and dats Anakin

It was treason from a certain point of view. the members of the republic know Palpatine is their leader and a good one, they only heard one side of the story, and Palpatine simply calls it treason cause the jedi are trying to take him out of power. The jedi know he is evil but no one else does.

It was treason from every point of view. The jedi tried to take over

Palpatine = bad.

Mace = idiot.

Palpatine had to go but Mace went the wrong way about it.

Kinda like Bush and Saddam.

The jedi aren't easily manipulated. Even though the entire republic was under the control of Palps, the Jedi's were not. They saw things the way they actually were. An evil leader has manipulated and decieved his way into power, and they had to do what was necessary to make things right. The Jedi's knew that if Palps was to stay in power, countless millions and probably billions of people around the galaxy are going to die. Were they wrong? NO !!! palps kept his power didn't he, and how many people died because of it? Entire planets were destroyed in seconds with the death star.

Use your brain dude. The Jedi's ABSOLUTELY did the right thing, even though Mace did not. Every lie that palps told Anakin in the movie to turn him to the dark side, you believed didn't you Jango Fat? If it was you there, it would be hilarious how quickly you are manipulated:

Palps: Jango fat, you must side with me and destroy the republic and kill billions of people around the galaxy.

Jango fat: But wouldn't that be wrong?

Palps: No, of course not, it's the right thing to do, from a certain perspective.

Jango fat: Ok then, since you say it so convincingly, fuk it, lets kill em all, i'm with ya...

Originally posted by king_arthur
Palpatine still has the right to be Supreme Chancellor, even if he was recognized as a Sith.

What Mace and the other Jedi did was discrimination because they wanted to arrest Palpatine since he was a Sith. And according to Republic Law, stopping someone because of their religions or beliefs is discrimination. This is why what the Jedi did was treason.

It was explained in the novelization.

That's why Mace realised it was better to kill Palpatine, not arrest him.

Vanquish: Quite right.

Originally posted by king_arthur
Palpatine still has the right to be Supreme Chancellor, even if he was recognized as a Sith.

What Mace and the other Jedi did was discrimination because they wanted to arrest Palpatine since he was a Sith. And according to Republic Law, stopping someone because of their religions or beliefs is discrimination. This is why what the Jedi did was treason.

It was explained in the novelization.

Yes, but it's just like saying Hiltler was a nazi who killed innocent people but he was the head of State (actually a dictator, just like Palpatine) so he had the right to do so.
Do you realise what kind of bullsh*t you've just said?
I've read the novel and I didn't intend it that way, I think Palpatine was just using most of the senators' ignorance.

Sorry I stil havent read the novel and dont plan to, does it outline the enitre constitution of the Galactic Government or something? Seeing as how so many have described ROTS as a play on American politics I think its safe to assume that Luicas has the government in SW set up very much like ours.. which basically says that if you know of a threat that not only is it your right to take action.. it is your responsibility to do so... in which case Mace was in the right....

How do you guys sleep at night? there is nothing racial or discrimatory about star wars what so ever! Sith are evil, jedi are good, it's just that most of the senate only knows what the chancelor told them and thats why they side with him.
according to republic law its treason?? what the hell is that?
Palpatine is simply saying it is treason to get people on his side like Anakin and the senate.

darthmaul1 has pretty much nailed it on the head there. In a morality tale of good and evil there is little mileage in questioning the motives of someone who goes to try and cast down the ultimate source of evil.

Or are you going to declare the entire Rebel Alliance in the wrong also?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
darthmaul1 has pretty much nailed it on the head there. In a morality tale of good and evil there is little mileage in questioning the motives of someone who goes to try and cast down the ultimate source of evil.

Or are you going to declare the entire Rebel Alliance in the wrong also?
clap Perfect response... you should close this thread Ush!

Although I do think Mace's motives were slightly unclear... he wanted all of the glory for himself I think. Why would you not alert the entire Jedi Order before you went to the Senate? Why not alert the whole frickin Republic that Palpatine is a sith lord? Tell a padawan to call the local Corsucant news or something.

It's because Mace wanted to own Sidious and be proclaimed the hero of the republic in the same way Anakin was.

That, or most of the Jedi were busy killing Separatists/Confederates...

Originally posted by darthmaul1
How do you guys sleep at night? there is nothing racial or discrimatory about star wars what so ever! Sith are evil, jedi are good, it's just that most of the senate only knows what the chancelor told them and thats why they side with him.
according to republic law its treason?? what the hell is that?
Palpatine is simply saying it is treason to get people on his side like Anakin and the senate.

Good is just a point of veiw. From the Sith's point of veiw the Jedi are evil.

That's crap man. Good isn't just a point of view. There are certain principles that universally apply to "goodness." I think Palps stepped over that line when BILLIONS of innocent people were slaughtered in the name of the empire.

Don't try to get philisophical about such obvious things. It just makes you look stupid...

Treason to kill the source of evil since he's the Chancellor...gotcha...

Thing is, Palpatine doesn't say "The Jedi tried to kill me because I'm a Sith Lord" because then the Galaxy would go 'Feck! Kill him!'

Instead, he says "Oh, the Jedi tried to kill your beloved Chancellor, but thank goodness Anakin was there, the only Jedi with a good mind! We should wipe them out!"

The Empire was only trying to keep peace and order throughout the galaxy with fear and power.

Fear + Power \= Peace

\= is a crappy 'not equal' sign.

If you give them too much freedom they will rebel.

umm, didn't he have a little something to do w/ provoking the clone wars?

Quite possibly. And wiping out hundreds of Jedi with the Clone Wars...

The intergalactice senate acknowledge and trust the Jedi's ability to sense a disturbance in the force. This is why there is a jedi counsel. They had more than just cause to arrest Palpitine, taking this into consideration.

Palpatine still has the right to be Supreme Chancellor, even if he was recognized as a Sith.

He was a frickin SITH LORD, enough said!!

Originally posted by benskywalker88
Palpatine still has the right to be Supreme Chancellor, even if he was recognized as a Sith.

He was a frickin SITH LORD, enough said!!

Indeed...

Originally posted by mysterio69
umm, didn't he have a little something to do w/ provoking the clone wars?

What's this? A spark of sanity at KMC! I thought those days were long gone!

The Jedi know Sidious is in control of the Seperatists. With Palpatine revealed to actually be Sidious himself, he is in violation of the law. Arrest his ass... if you can.

..

Originally posted by kremzike
What's this? A spark of sanity at KMC! I thought those days were long gone!

The Jedi know Sidious is in control of the Seperatists. With Palpatine revealed to actually be Sidious himself, he is in violation of the law. Arrest his ass... if you can.

not sanity, my friend. simply common sense. maybe there's still some people out there who don't know that palpatine is sidious.

Originally posted by benskywalker88
Palpatine still has the right to be Supreme Chancellor, even if he was recognized as a Sith.

He was a frickin SITH LORD, enough said!!

the jedi counsel exist for the sole reason of keeping intergalactic peace. Knowing the history of the sith, and there intentions It was the jedi's responsibility to arrest palpitine. Evil is a characteristic of the sith. besides, when did palpitine get arrested? He fooled EVERYONE.

"I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you"
"I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over!"
"Anakin Chancellor Palpatine is evil!"
"from my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
"well then you are lost!"

enough said. I dont really think theres a "point of view" Sith are Evil, Jedi are not, they might be stupid, but they are still good.

Sith are not. Palps being the Sith master of Sith masters is pretty damn evil. Evil is generally not good...

thus: Palpatine = not good

so Mace DID have a right to do it, in order to keep Evil from ruling the galaxy.

its just, Mace was a moron.

Originally posted by Vanquish
That's crap man. Good isn't just a point of view. There are certain principles that universally apply to "goodness." I think Palps stepped over that line when BILLIONS of innocent people were slaughtered in the name of the empire.

Don't try to get philisophical about such obvious things. It just makes you look stupid...

Man, your a moron. Good and evil are MORALS, they difer from culture to culture. There is no such thing as an 'evil person' or 'good person' in the real world, all have potential for both, it's their upbringing that set morals.

I agree, 'good' and 'evil' are not universaly definable terms... they depend entirely on one's point of view.

Yes, but there are some things that are universally known as evil -- murder being one. Palpatine, by starting the Clone Wars, was directly responsible for the deaths of many people. He was corrupt and manipulating everyone around him to take power. He had the entire Senate, with the exception of the few that went on to form the Rebel Alliance eating out of his hand. It was well within the rights of the Jedi to try and stop him. It was their JOB to do so. They're protectors of the peace and the Republic, and Palpatine was destroying the Republic.



No one would believe them most likely, though. Like was said, Palpatine had nearly the whole Senate blindly believing what he said.

Originally posted by Lana
Yes, but there are some things that are universally known as evil -- murder being one.
I don't think I'd use the term "universally"... there are things widely regarded as being 'evil', but not universally. There are some crazy people out there who would not believe the act of murder to be an evil thing or even a bad thing... They may be deluded, but still from their point of view they are not evil. I doubt very much that Palpatine sat back in his chair overlooking all the destruction he has caused and said "God, I'm evil". Because to him, he wasn't.

Originally posted by Lana
No one would believe them most likely, though. Like was said, Palpatine had nearly the whole Senate blindly believing what he said.


Yeah... but if Palps started doing things that were unbefitting of the republic and it had been said by the jedi that he was evil, people might say, "hmmm... I wonder!"

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I agree, 'good' and 'evil' are not universaly definable terms... they depend entirely on one's point of view.

your thinking to deep for a star wars movie. OF course there is the standard vision of good and evil in star wars. Star wars was nothing more than a good vs evil flick. Georgy boy ( the creator ) acknowledges the good and evil in star wars. there are hints in his filmaking that prove this. Prime examples are the sith always having red lightsabers. The atmosphere around the enemey always being dark and dreary, and ect... At any rate, evil may be a point of view, but if nohting less it is a term used for people to identify with.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
your thinking to deep for a star wars movie. OF course there is the standard vision of good and evil in star wars. Star wars was nothing more than a good vs evil flick. Georgy boy ( the creator ) acknowledges the good and evil in star wars. there are hints in his filmaking that prove this. Prime examples are the sith always having red lightsabers. The atmosphere around the enemey always being dark and dreary, and ect... At any rate, evil may be a point of view, but if nohting less it is a term used for people to identify with.
Oh yeah, I agree with that... For the audience, good and evil are clearly defined as you pointed out.

I think I'm arguing a different point entirely... serves me right for just jumping straight into a conversation without reading what's already been said. My bad.

Like da jedi didn't kill billions of people. HUH
Da empire also wants peace. Da first thing Palpie says after he killed Mace was something like'And now there shall be peace'
Da rebels were just stupid. They started it as did da jedi. Palpie had every right to execute order 66

Palpatine created the separatists through Count Dooku in case you didn't realize it. So he started the war in order to gain more power and transform the Republic into an Empire to counter the threat of the Separatists. He started the war!! He was lying to Anakin when he said there would be peace. There was peace in the republic before he plotted to destroy it... which is and was the primary desire of the Sith order... revenge against the Jedi and the Republic for nearly wiping them out a thousand generations before!!

Yeah, so da jedi also killed billions

Originally posted by jango fat
Yeah, so da jedi also killed billions

No... they destroyed millions of battle droids!

Palpatine started the war, so it is his fault that anyone dies... he controlled both sides... if the jedi did cause the death of any innocents during this time of war it was because of Palpatine starting the war that required them to be sent out to fight battles.

Therefore, when they discover that all of the risking of their lives and fighting the separatists was all caused by this one person they were justified in trying to take him out!! End of discussion.

If you cannot agree with this then you are an idiot!

Da jedi killeed Sith, people who sided with the sith, Mandalorians, bandits, rebels,separatists(the separatists didn't only have battle droids), bountyhunters.

Read some EU in every comic a jedi appears he kills at least 5 people

***Because the evil Sith lord Supreme Chancellor Emperor Palpatine Darth Sidious STARTED the war MANIPULATING both sides! It is HIS fault.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I agree, 'good' and 'evil' are not universaly definable terms... they depend entirely on one's point of view.

Right. So murdering innocent people can't be bad

Originally posted by Vanquish
The jedi aren't easily manipulated. Even though the entire republic was under the control of Palps, the Jedi's were not. They saw things the way they actually were. An evil leader has manipulated and decieved his way into power, and they had to do what was necessary to make things right. The Jedi's knew that if Palps was to stay in power, countless millions and probably billions of people around the galaxy are going to die. Were they wrong? NO !!! palps kept his power didn't he, and how many people died because of it? Entire planets were destroyed in seconds with the death star.

Use your brain dude. The Jedi's ABSOLUTELY did the right thing, even though Mace did not. Every lie that palps told Anakin in the movie to turn him to the dark side, you believed didn't you Jango Fat? If it was you there, it would be hilarious how quickly you are manipulated:

Palps: Jango fat, you must side with me and destroy the republic and kill billions of people around the galaxy.

Jango fat: But wouldn't that be wrong?

Palps: No, of course not, it's the right thing to do, from a certain perspective.

Jango fat: Ok then, since you say it so convincingly, fuk it, lets kill em all, i'm with ya...





There's still one thing, mace should have felt the anger in anakin, preventing then, his own death. He let the one man mission of his to cloud his judgment and he paid for it. Electrically LOLOL

Originally posted by Lana
Yes, but there are some things that are universally known as evil -- murder being one. Palpatine, by starting the Clone Wars, was directly responsible for the deaths of many people. He was corrupt and manipulating everyone around him to take power. He had the entire Senate, with the exception of the few that went on to form the Rebel Alliance eating out of his hand. It was well within the rights of the Jedi to try and stop him. It was their JOB to do so. They're protectors of the peace and the Republic, and Palpatine was destroying the Republic.



No one would believe them most likely, though. Like was said, Palpatine had nearly the whole Senate blindly believing what he said.

You said it. I agree 100%.

Even among different cultures, some things are universally agreed to be 'wrong.' Good and evil are not just 'points of view.'

If I murdered someone for a laugh, would that be good 'from a certain POV?' Of course not!

The Jedi had EVERY right to take Palpatine down.

I think it would be universally considered a "good" thing if Jango Fat never spoke again...

palps not evil, the jedi had no right to try and arrest him? now i've heard everything. the man started a war galatic war to get revenge against the jedi and to start an empire where he is the emperor. i know this is EU but the sith at one time ruled the galaxy under oppression until the jedi/sith war happened. mace doesn't mention that war in ROTS but he touches on the fact that sith did terrorize the galaxy at one point. dooku even said that hundreds of senators are under the influence of the dark lord, meaning sid was using the force to manipulate the senate. is that not evil enough, or does palp need to do something more like blowing up planets with billions of people on it.

True But the Sith are sworn enmeys of the Jedi, so had to had to.

lol! this is not a philosophical debate on morality and the definition of good and evil.

if you asked lucas, he would tell you the sith are evil the jedi are good.

the story was meant to be this way, its a fantasy film in space. good and evil are definitively portrayed in these films.

and Palpatine is evil.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I agree, 'good' and 'evil' are not universaly definable terms... they depend entirely on one's point of view.

Nigga, you crazy!

Quit picking on that Dodo!



An evil person I think knows he's evil...

What I think DD was trying to say though is that evil and bad can be hard to define at times... one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist sort of thing.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Nigga, you crazy!

hysterical

Originally posted by chilled monkey
You said it. I agree 100%.
If I murdered someone for a laugh, would that be good 'from a certain POV?' Of course not!


your stupid really. i don't agreee with this thread the jedi had the right to take palps down.

But evil is just a point of view if someone kills someone because they're mad does that make them evil, no. people that kill other people for a laugh don't think it is wrong to kill people therefore they are not evil.

Take Hitler as an example he did not believe that he was evil he felt that he wa doing the right thing, he felt he was doing it for the best.

therefore evil is a pont of view and there is no such thing as an evil person. people don't jst do things because they think it is an evil thing to do.

I think people are forgetting that this is Star Wars, and there is a pretty simple black and white distinction between good and evil.

Palpatine tries to cast doubt, talking about point of views and such. That was to dupe Anakin. Ironic, that it has also duped so many fans too.

Palpatine was evil. Mace killing Palpatine would have been a good thing.

Mace just had awful timing and picked 3 punks to accompany him.

Palpatine is bad. Simple as that. Killing him would be good. Palpatine, as stated by Lucas, is a consciousless evil. Comparring him to Hitler isn't feasable. Hitler was misguided, Palpatine is just evil personified.

He is the Snake from Adam and Eve, he is the devil. There is no redeeming qualities in him.

Fully agree, but careful with the "3 punks to accompany him" comment

You are going to get all the EU guys all pissy. They will come back with lavish stories of how powerful those 3 guys were, and how they can create black holes and manipulate time itself in comic books or some dumb EU shit and this thread will go on for another 10 pages...

lol. but i was being serious when writing my comment about how evil is a point of view. i wasn't really talking about Star Wars. But the reason we see the Sith as evil could be because we see the movies from the jedi's Point of View.

The proof is in the pudding.

3 punks they were.

hey those 3 punks were very powerful .....

Ya they were ******* no doubt, but go over to EU section and Versus forum and you'll see how many people think they are gods for some reason...

How did the first guy to die not see that slow, long ass thrust move that impailed him? Was he on the tail end of a drunken bender or something. He wasen't even looking at palps when he died.

he was watching palps spinning around like 50 times and getting dizzy

Originally posted by DarkYoda
Quit picking on that Dodo!

Dudes, chill. I already apologised for what I said... I was talking about something else.

I agree completely with Superfly's post.

Originally posted by DarkYoda
An evil person I think knows he's evil...
I don't agree with that completely. An evil person knows others' perception of him is evil but to himself he is not evil.

Originally posted by DarkYoda
What I think DD was trying to say though is that evil and bad can be hard to define at times... one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist sort of thing. Yes, I agree with that.

Well, I can understand number one and two going out, but number 3 (Fisto right?) was just retarded. What the hell was he thinking?

Fisto: "Ooh, Palpatine, we gonna kick yo' ass!"

*Palpatine kills first Jedi*

Fisto: "WTF? Where's my saber? Oh god! WTF!" *fumbles*

*Palpatine kills second Jedi*

Fisto: "Oh crap! If I don't get my saber out soon I'm f*cked! AHA! Here it is......sh*t, which way is up on this thing? I don't want to stab myself when I turn it on. Maybe it's this button he...."

*Palpatine cuts Fisto*

I think Palps knows he's evil... and loves every minute of it!

no doubt DY

Originally posted by jango fat
Like da jedi didn't kill billions of people. HUH
Da empire also wants peace. Da first thing Palpie says after he killed Mace was something like'And now there shall be peace'
Da rebels were just stupid. They started it as did da jedi. Palpie had every right to execute order 66

the sith have no problem with obtaining peace through violence. A hypocritical belief usually isnt somthing to bank on. The sith are narcissitic. You ever notice that the sith always claim to have the answers? One of the oldest sayings that still remians true can apply in this case. "He who claims to be a wise man, isnt"

Originally posted by Vanquish
Fully agree, but careful with the "3 punks to accompany him" comment

You are going to get all the EU guys all pissy. They will come back with lavish stories of how powerful those 3 guys were, and how they can create black holes and manipulate time itself in comic books or some dumb EU shit and this thread will go on for another 10 pages...

Yo Vanquish, I'm an EU fan and I wont even deny that they were weak-ass punks. They might as well have been one of those useless skinny battle droids--they provided no help to Mace. And why that twatt Agen Kolar had his back to Palpatine...beyond me.

Originally posted by king_arthur
Palpatine still has the right to be Supreme Chancellor, even if he was recognized as a Sith.

What Mace and the other Jedi did was discrimination because they wanted to arrest Palpatine since he was a Sith. And according to Republic Law, stopping someone because of their religions or beliefs is discrimination. This is why what the Jedi did was treason.

It was explained in the novelization.
wrong, mace and the jedi are the "police" of the galaxy. they have every right. its like impeachment.

Palpatine has been in the senate over his time. his time has been up for a long time and that is why all the jedi are so curious on to why he is still on the senate.

i think mace did the right thing. not the right thing for a jedi but the right thing to get rid of palpatine since he is turning anakin to the dark side

And 'cause he is Sith... and a Sith who had cause the Clone Wars for his own purposes of self-promotion/accumilation of power...

the jedi had the right to arrest palpatine because his term of being supreme chancellor was expired so he shouldn't be supreme chancellor at that time, and he was a sith.

Yep.