Bruce Wayne No Weapons VS. Matt Murdock No Weapons... Hand to Hand!!!

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Sentry
Who takes it?

Debate.

demigawd
Great fight. Talentwise, I give a slight edge to Matt. Ditto skillwise. But Batman is as smart as they come. He'd realize pretty fast that Matt is blind and use that to his advantage with some wicked misdirection and sound tricks, like leading him to a church and ringing the bells or something (if that counts).

Sentry
This is a good fight. Daredevil might lack the 127 different martial arts styles Batman knows, but he has a unique fighting style. An acrobatic fighting style, mixed with old pugilistic boxing techniques, plus he hits harder than most heavyweight prize fighters. This is a good fight.

olympian
I find that 127 arts style learned by Batman overarrated. he didnt had the time in the world to learn all that. Matt has his powers in this fight right? Add that to skill and he wins.

Zahit
Batman is stronger.
They're roughly equal in most respects.
I'd give it to the Bat.

whirlysplat
Batman, its close but Batman

CorderaMitchell
Batman has a greater fighting and tactical prowress, Murdock, is a better acrobat, with that perception, since it is hand to hand, with Murdocks senses, I'd say tie at the moment.

Darth Macabre
Matt is quicker and more agile then Bruce. Although Bruce might be stronger, there both at peak human performance. Hm very good fight, but I have to go with Murdock on this.

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by olympian
I find that 127 arts style learned by Batman overarrated. he didnt had the time in the world to learn all that. Matt has his powers in this fight right? Add that to skill and he wins.

Yes they are very overrated, and add to the "wow" factor of him, you can't really cycle through moves like that, and only have need for the: open appendage, closed, grab, and lock, techniques, all with counter another.

Once you have those the rest is just about focus, application , and concetration, all of which bamtan has, the other skills are just for different insight, and extension of knowledge.

But I'm going with Murdock on this one.

EvilCap America
Bats does a pretty good job keeping up with Bat-girl thats basicaly DD but her abilities have better applications for pure combat.Id give Bats a slight edge but DD would make one heck of a fight out of it

CorderaMitchell
good point, but murdock is a different opponent in his own right, speed is better than pure strenght in a fight, speed feeds power, and power>strength.

Its more beneficial to generate 60% of your power for longer periods of time and a much faster start up, than to generate,90% and burn out.

whirlysplat
Unless like Tyson in his prime that 90% gets the job done very quickly, styles make fights, at least as much as strategy.

Keep the faith big grin

Stay Whirlyrock

CorderaMitchell
Yep, but he could keep that 90% long enough, and if not, who said it was 90%, the better fighters are the more powerful ones easily.

EvilCap America
Originally posted by whirlysplat
Unless like Tyson in his prime that 90% gets the job done very quickly, styles make fights, at least as much as strategy.

Keep the faith big grin

Stay Whirlyrock

I started watching some old tyson fights on a classic sports channel a little while before i lost Cable.Alot of his fights werent being complimented for his power but for his great combinations combined with KO ability.Only once he got big headed did he become a mindless headhunter rather than a boxer and it was downhill from there

newjak86
You have to include the fact that both of these people are well conditioned and not going to tire sooner. This is a hard fought battle both are fairly equal. I give to Batman though because the winner of this fight isn't going to be who's stronger or faster but who is the more clever and better fighter overall. I give the nod to Batman here. He always seems to be in control and focused. Plus I think he will outthink DD which as a stated earlier is the key to winning this fight.

CorderaMitchell
Agreed its an implement of all technique,speed, and power, but neither rely on "strenth", thats for thing and hulk.

Darth Macabre
I agree that its about technique rather then strength but they are both highly skilled. They are both clever in there own right. So when it comes down to it, it is about strength and speed, rather then mind.

I still go with Murdock on this one.

jrodslam
Dam this is kinda close to call.

I wanna start by saying, why do people assume Bruce is stronger than Matt? Matt is capable of lifting(press) over 700 lbs.

Anyhow, like everyone says, strength wont be a factor. Bruce does have a very wide knowledge of the martial arts. Matt also is well trained in then MA. I know he was taught since the early teens(12-14). Bruce has a slight advantage in skills thatn Matt.

They both analyze their opponents to look for openings to attack as well as weak spots. I think Matt has a slight advantage because of his hearing which allows his to detect the slightest movement in Bruce. Also the heartbeat. Even if Wayne somehow figures Matt is blind, it wouldnt really help much imo.

Matt also has the advantage in agility. I would say reflexes also, because he knows exactly when Bruce is going to throw a punch due to his senses.

In the end, im going to have to give the fight to Matt. He has the agility, reflexes and a unorthodox fighting style.

Matt 7/10/ imo.

black robb
Originally posted by demigawd
Great fight. Talentwise, I give a slight edge to Matt. Ditto skillwise. But Batman is as smart as they come. He'd realize pretty fast that Matt is blind and use that to his advantage with some wicked misdirection and sound tricks, like leading him to a church and ringing the bells or something (if that counts). real men need sigs

FrothByte
hmm.... cool fight. id have to say id give the edge to matt because of his heightened senses and keener reflexes. but bruce could always outsmart him in the end... but that would be pretty difficult because dd isn't some mindless street fighter.

CorderaMitchell
Murdok............

Sentry
Originally posted by jrodslam
Dam this is kinda close to call.

I wanna start by saying, why do people assume Bruce is stronger than Matt? Matt is capable of lifting(press) over 700 lbs.

Anyhow, like everyone says, strength wont be a factor. Bruce does have a very wide knowledge of the martial arts. Matt also is well trained in then MA. I know he was taught since the early teens(12-14). Bruce has a slight advantage in skills thatn Matt.

They both analyze their opponents to look for openings to attack as well as weak spots. I think Matt has a slight advantage because of his hearing which allows his to detect the slightest movement in Bruce. Also the heartbeat. Even if Wayne somehow figures Matt is blind, it wouldnt really help much imo.

Matt also has the advantage in agility. I would say reflexes also, because he knows exactly when Bruce is going to throw a punch due to his senses.

In the end, im going to have to give the fight to Matt. He has the agility, reflexes and a unorthodox fighting style.

Matt 7/10/ imo.

Oh my god!!!

Something we actually agree on!!!

Matt wins!!!

jrodslam
Originally posted by Sentry
Oh my god!!!

Something we actually agree on!!!

Matt wins!!!

The world is coming to an end. laughing

Solidus Snake
the bat beats the devil.


the bat ends up with a broken nose tho.

brainchild81
DD

DarkCrawler
Batman wins. I think he is a bit of better in martial arts, and is somewhat stronger too.

olympian
Bruce outsmarting DD without any of his toys its going to be difficult.

GalacticStorm
Id give it to Bruce definitely. He's more skilled h2h. Murd is good but not in the same league. Murd was easily defeated by Iron fist in CofC with Iron fist just using his fighting skills and not channeling his chi. He said Murd fights too much like a boxer. Bruce is one of the most skilled h2h fighters in comics he would def take this

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by olympian
Bruce outsmarting DD without any of his toys its going to be difficult.

I never said anything outsmarting. He beats him in pure martial arts fight.

CorderaMitchell
He would in a hand to hand, but DD can move alot easier, and he has the sense, both which help immensly, that gives bats a hard time, because he has no gadgets to compensate for the powers.

DarkCrawler

CorderaMitchell
Understood fine, but you understand that there are a few style types. If you know the one you have to the best of its degree, its better than knowing others, you won't cycle through that many moves easily.

Best put its a close one, but speed lends an advantage in a match with characters that are very similar. The sense, gives him a great advantage with melee battles, which this is...............

DarkCrawler
Did you read it all?

CorderaMitchell
True, this is a great rival to daredevils sense, BUT, it still needs to be applied, thus requiring focus and concentration. This is also a style, meaning he wouldn't be using no more than perhaps 2 in a given fight, maybe three.

Daredevil's sense is more of a "sixth sense" like spider sense, it takes little to no effort to apply and gives him that advantage.

Now that I think of it, I call a draw, but it goes a little each way, depending on the environment.

Just keep in mind that Daredevil is EXTREMELY FAST!!

DarkCrawler
But Batman is quite fast too.

olympian
"I never said anything outsmarting. He beats him in pure martial arts fight."

It was for another comment i saw in the thread.

Im not sure bats beats him with only martial arts. At Dc without weapons and figthing a ring style match hes barely in the top 5. Guys like Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva, Green Arrow 2 and batgirl are consider better than him.

And in this kind of match, Matt still has his powers since they are part of him.

CorderaMitchell
Bats is peak human like DD, both are fast, DD is faster, bats is stronger.

But I think the sixth sense tips the scale though.

I'd say DD 5.5/10

olympian
Thats what i meant. While both are peak human, DD`s senses are way higher. And hes use to use them in combat at his fullest.

CorderaMitchell
Strength matters little in a fight with two tech users, unless they are going to armwrestle, speed is better, whats the point of strength when you cant hit your opponent, this works on both sides.

olympian
Enchanted senses are more the agility to anticipated the opponents movements. DD has bats beat in that. Hes also more agile than Bats is, like Nightwing.

olympian
And the funny is wer both saying the same things but in dfferent ways.

wink

EvilCap America
Is DD REALLY more agile than bats?Seems kind of hard to tell for sure

Anyways i say Batman hangs in there with Bat-girl and does pretty good at times Bat-girls got basically a better combat version of DDs powers and he isnt TOO far behind.He can make up the difference in a H2H fight

DD is pretty good but he doesnt strike me as better than Batman who is phenominal.Yes he isnt top 5 in DCs MAs list but thats a list DD would fall far short of too

whirlysplat
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Strength matters little in a fight with two tech users, unless they are going to armwrestle, speed is better, whats the point of strength when you cant hit your opponent, this works on both sides.


I hat to tell you this Cordy but they have weight divisions cause strength matters a lot. Most real fights end up grappling quickly and in grappling strength matters big grin

DarkCrawler

whirlysplat
Batman easily big grin

olympian
"Is DD REALLY more agile than bats?Seems kind of hard to tell for sure"

DD is more agile than Bats in the same way Nightwing is more agile also.

"Batman is the world's most accomplished and skilled martial artist. Sure Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva are true masters but they master only a few styles and know a smattering of styles. However Batman is the pinnacle of true masters. "

He is the most eclectical master artist of DC. But hes never beaten Dragon and Shiva. And was beaten once by Tiger and had a stalemate later. Batgirl showed to be better than him also.

These guys are better than Bats for the reason theyr whole life is only focused on martial arts aspects. Bats doesnt. He had to share his focus in crimefighting. Techs. Labs. Bussiness Empire. etc.

Those have been show in comics to be better than him in pure martial arts life.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by olympian


He is the most eclectical master artist of DC. But hes never beaten Dragon and Shiva. And was beaten once by Tiger and had a stalemate later. Batgirl showed to be better than him also.

These guys are better than Bats for the reason theyr whole life is only focused on martial arts aspects. Bats doesnt. He had to share his focus in crimefighting. Techs. Labs. Bussiness Empire. etc.

Those have been show in comics to be better than him in pure martial arts life.

But he is still lot better then Daredevil.

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by whirlysplat
I hat to tell you this Cordy but they have weight divisions cause strength matters a lot. Most real fights end up grappling quickly and in grappling strength matters big grin

Power matters more, who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee or Tyson??

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Is DD REALLY more agile than bats?Seems kind of hard to tell for sure

Anyways i say Batman hangs in there with Bat-girl and does pretty good at times Bat-girls got basically a better combat version of DDs powers and he isnt TOO far behind.He can make up the difference in a H2H fight

DD is pretty good but he doesnt strike me as better than Batman who is phenominal.Yes he isnt top 5 in DCs MAs list but thats a list DD would fall far short of too

Batman is great, but DD definitely is more agile, he could give spiderman trouble in high gear.

This is almost a tie really.

jrodslam
Skill wise he may be better than Matt, but like someone mentioned, Bats isnt going to cycle through all his different styles of MA during the fight. 3 the most. DD mixes up his styles on a basis. People dont realized that eventhough Bruce is "master in 127 major matial arts styles" Matt is also a master in a couple as well. Mixed with being an expert boxer as well as wrestler and technician(sp?).

For some reason i dont believe Batman is a master in 127 major martial arts. That just seems obsurd to me. You have people who train from being 10, and only master about 8 forms up to the age of 60 or so. But thats just my opinion.

Like i said before, this is a fight for the books, but because of DD's sences, he feels the slightest movement. I give him the slight advantage in speed because he already knows the punches are coming. Hes also very good with pressure points as well. Not saying that Batman isnt. I just think that DD is highly underrated in his h2h fighting.

There are many people who are better than him in h2h, but his agility along with senses and mixed fighting style makes him a match for anyone.

From what i heard they kinda got into it before. But it didint finish. Ended up in a stalemate? Can someone give the details on what happened in the fight again? What crossover as well?

demigawd
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Power matters more, who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee or Tyson??


You ask that like it's a foregone conclusion. Bruce Lee flat out admitted that he wouldn't be able to beat Muhammad Ali....Prime Tyson could very well take him down. Or perhaps vice versa.

DarkCrawler
Here is the fight from crossover:

Batman attacks Daredevil so silently that he doesn't hear nearly anything, but his radar sense registers him.

Daredevil turns around and hits Batman who is jumping on him, but Batman dodges it rather easily.

Batman tries to sweep Daredevil in the legs, but DD jumps away.

Batman throws Batarangs on DD. While he catches them, his hand are not free and Batman kicks him in the stomach, dropping him.

DD gets up and dodges another hit from Batman.

Batman hits another time and while DD is dazed, he puts him in lock, strangling him.

DD throws Batman away from him.

The fight ends shortly after this.

jrodslam
But you have to remember. Prime Tyson isnt better than Ali.

Thats why Ali's the greatest.

demigawd
Hence the "or vice-versa".

brainchild81
Didn't DD beat up Cap a while back?

CorderaMitchell
Originally posted by demigawd
You ask that like it's a foregone conclusion. Bruce Lee flat out admitted that he wouldn't be able to beat Muhammad Ali....Prime Tyson could very well take him down. Or perhaps vice versa.

I never said strenth itself doesn't matter, its the application of such strenth.

The stronger the muscles in a body the faster they move. So strength plays a big role, but with people so similar in most stats like this, the speed, and agility would edge those out.

You cant hit me easily brute strength will fatigue, power is much superior don't you agree?

whirlysplat
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I never said strenth itself doesn't matter, its the application of such strenth.

The stronger the muscles in a body the faster they move. So strength plays a big role, but with people so similar in most stats like this, the speed, and agility would edge those out.

You cant hit me easily brute strength will fatigue, power is much superior don't you agree?

depends if its in a clinch, grappling arts are more effective than striking arts. Ten years ago I would have agreed but Vale Tudo has taught us all so much big grin

CorderaMitchell
There's open limb, closed, grab, and lock, they counter one another, and I assure you DD isn't going to let himself get grabbed, he's got too much leverage.

whirlysplat
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Power matters more, who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee or Tyson??

Tyson in his youth easily

CorderaMitchell
What about Bruce in his prime??

My point is no matter the power of the punches bruce did things considered superhuman, by physicians, he did finger push ups and such.

Even if tyson won, do you think it would have been easy, considering how fast Bruce moves?

whirlysplat
Originally posted by demigawd
You ask that like it's a foregone conclusion. Bruce Lee flat out admitted that he wouldn't be able to beat Muhammad Ali....Prime Tyson could very well take him down. Or perhaps vice versa.

and on this very subject


a classic thread

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344380&highlight=Bruce+Lee

despite the poll, the thread is proved by the Ali fans

Darth Macabre
I think this might be one of the best fights on this forum. Yes Bruce is a master at 127 forms, but hes not going to use all of his forms in one fight. Lets say he uses 5 forms at the most, now all of those 122 other forms mean absolutly nothing.

Bruce might also be able to lift more then Matt, but Matts no weakling. I believe he can press 700 pounds if im not mistaken. Matt is also alot more agile then Bruce, so Bruces strength means nothing when he cant touch his opponent. It would be one hell of a fight for Matt but his senses push him over the top.

CorderaMitchell
They are close, those styles are overrated, but very effective, I still believe the sense to be the deciding factor, in a match so close.

Sentry
UP^^^

Murdock Wins!!!

whirlysplat
bumping your own threads from weeks ago.

Necromancy laughing out loud

Keep the faithbig grin

Stay Whirly rock

Never
Daredevil is superior to Batman in h2h.

CorderaMitchell
I'm not sure if you mean skill or efficiency...

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