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In the opening scrolling text sequence of Ep III, it is said that there are "heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere..." (or something like that).

If there are heroes on both sides, and the separatists are classified as "evil", then does that mean evil can be heroes as well? Or is the comment implying that there is no evil side, both are fighting for equally honourable reasons....
Who are the heroes exactly.....?
Are sidiousm dooku and anakin/vader heores?....

Dicuss...

Evil is a certain point of view, from the separatists eye, the Republic is evil. I think that is what "Heroes on both sides, evil is everywhere. . ."
For the separatists, Dooku is a hero and Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi are evil. It is vis versa for the Republic.

What i like about this prticular line is that there is no distinction between good and evil, which hollywood tends to do (ie. good guys and bad guys).

It is also touched on by Palps: "The Jedi and teh Sith are similar in many ways..."

Ep III is actually quite deep in many ways.... Interesting....

That is why it is rated PG-13. Sad, gruesome, angry, happy, etc. That is why I voted Episode III my favorite Star Wars movie. (The Opening Battle REALLY helped)

Not really. I don't see how you can justify the use of the death star and killing billions of innocent people as being "good" from a certain point of view.

A hero doesn't have to be good though...look at Rommel, or the Red Baron.

Originally posted by Echuu
Not really. I don't see how you can justify the use of the death star and killing billions of innocent people as being "good" from a certain point of view.

A hero doesn't have to be good though...look at Rommel, or the Red Baron.

W eare talking about Ep III, not to OT - the empire has only just been formed, and the death star is not yet operational.

Ahh well, at least I guessed

yeah, that line bugs the shit out of me.
there is not a single hero on the seperatist side, unless there
are some unsung nemoidian and techno union guys we never heard of.

all we see is

-dooku (evil sith lord)
-GG (coward)
-droids....lots and lots of droids\

no heros there, from ANY point of view

I'm sure the average person on a Seperatist world thought
they were fighting the good fight.

Leaders con their followers all the time.


It is a weird line, though.....

Originally posted by jabbar
W eare talking about Ep III, not to OT - the empire has only just been formed, and the death star is not yet operational.

Doesn't matter. You are seperating the OT and PT and you should remember that they are one. And what about the killing of the jedi younglings?



I dunno PVS. From the seperatist point of view don't you think they would be all happy and stuff about Dooku and Grievous and consider them heros for the cause?
Cuz like in Germany the Red Baron was a "hero" but in the U.S. he was despised. And then if you look at an American hero like Patton or Ike then Germans despised them too though they were "heros" on our side.

Good examples.

This is an interesting issue if, in fact, members from the separatist side are heroes.

Or, it may well be a non-issue if we conclude that they are not heroes. Apart from dooku, grievous and sidious (and anakin towards the end) - droids don't count - there's no one else.

Another thought: perhaps teh "both sides" refers to palps/sidious - he is on both sides isn't he. Or, perhaps it refers to anaking who is on either side in this movie...

maybe i'm over analysing this point.... meh

Hero: an ordinary person who performs an extraordinary deed under extraordinary circumstances. That's the literal definition of "hero" and whether the person is "good or evil" is not specified, so perhaps thats what Lucas meant. Not that Anakin or Obi are by any means "ordinary".

Evil is from a certain point of view the republic is evil to the sepratists and visa versa, so the heros are anakin and obi wan and grievous and dooku.
If Germany had won the war, Hitler would of been a hero and good to some people, but since they lost he is evil and a tyrant.

that darthmaul1 is very certain...I couldn`t imagine the world today if he would have won...

Gee...now you got me thinking about that....

Originally posted by Echuu
Doesn't matter. You are seperating the OT and PT and you should remember that they are one. And what about the killing of the jedi younglings?



I dunno PVS. From the seperatist point of view don't you think they would be all happy and stuff about Dooku and Grievous and consider them heros for the cause?
Cuz like in Germany the Red Baron was a "hero" but in the U.S. he was despised. And then if you look at an American hero like Patton or Ike then Germans despised them too though they were "heros" on our side.

Well i disagree because i believe that those WWII generals were in some way admired by the opossite side. What considers heroes in Episode III its as some people have already mentioned that for separatists Dooku was hero and for republic the jedis were, because the masses create heroes, the heroes don't create themselves.

Simple explanation: GL sucks as a writer.

If there are "heroes on both sides" he should have shown it...how the other side viewed one of their "heroes", the rationalization, the justification for why they believed what they were doing was honorable and right. Seems all of the Separatists were sniveling greedy bastards.

God save London and the British people....

Originally posted by Paul-Muad'Dib
Well i disagree because i believe that those WWII generals were in some way admired by the opossite side. What considers heroes in Episode III its as some people have already mentioned that for separatists Dooku was hero and for republic the jedis were, because the masses create heroes, the heroes don't create themselves.

Yeah so? They were admired because people still had a tiny shred of chivalry back then. If you could screw that country's hero over you would be even more of a hero on your side. Plus, most if not all of those generals would have done just that if they had gotten the chance.

Originally posted by darthmaul1
Evil is from a certain point of view the republic is evil to the sepratists and visa versa, so the heros are anakin and obi wan and grievous and dooku.
If Germany had won the war, Hitler would of been a hero and good to some people, but since they lost he is evil and a tyrant.
exactly, every side has its heroes, the scrolling words thingies just meant that both sides has heroes to them.

Originally posted by PVS
yeah, that line bugs the shit out of me.
there is not a single hero on the seperatist side, unless there
are some unsung nemoidian and techno union guys we never heard of.

all we see is

-dooku (evil sith lord)
-GG (coward)
-droids....lots and lots of droids\

no heros there, from ANY point of view

Except one thing about that do you really think that every seperatist thinks that the Sith are evil? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! If you join the CIS then you must like sith or hate the republic and in their minds the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

its confusing.....but somewhat satisfying.if you think about it,"heroes on both sides" means that both sides will fight gallantly for what they believe in, making them, "heroes"

The CIS are fighting for what they believe in.
Dooku
Grievous
Assaj
Durge
Are evil to the Republic but to the CIS they're heroes. Like Obi-Wan and Anakin are evil to the CIS.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
Hero: an ordinary person who performs an extraordinary deed under extraordinary circumstances. That's the literal definition of "hero" and whether the person is "good or evil" is not specified, so perhaps thats what Lucas meant. Not that Anakin or Obi are by any means "ordinary".

That nailed it. Forget any considerations of Good or Evil- that's what the line meant, extraordinary people on both sides.

It's also stolen from the film 'Hero', but with the opposite final moral.

Dooku was a hero as was Ventress

The line is bollocks, and it's the most pathetic attempt at trying to make the audience attempt to identify with the enemy.

Especially considering every single enemy character that George 'Madness' Lucas creates is irrevocably evil or cowardly

ERM Good point

hjljk

also there are heroes on both sides b/c they are really both being run by the same person so literally both sides are fighting the same evil. its like padme says maybe the democracy they thought they were serving doesnt work anymore. one group wanted to fix it while the other wanted to create something new but all to reach the same outcome. the only true evil were the sith b/c they played to similar sides against eachother

Originally posted by Jerico
The line is bollocks, and it's the most pathetic attempt at trying to make the audience attempt to identify with the enemy.

Especially considering every single enemy character that George 'Madness' Lucas creates is irrevocably evil or cowardly

Obi-Wan= Not evil and not a coward
Mace= Ditto
Yoda= Ditto
The Jedi= Ditto

To the Separatists Grievous and Dooku are heroes.

Originally posted by jimmy986
also there are heroes on both sides b/c they are really both being run by the same person so literally both sides are fighting the same evil. its like padme says maybe the democracy they thought they were serving doesnt work anymore. one group wanted to fix it while the other wanted to create something new but all to reach the same outcome. the only true evil were the sith b/c they played to similar sides against eachother

This is what I thought the quote meant. The Seperatists are fighting agaisnt the greater evil, as the Jedi do eventually.

Originally posted by PVS
yeah, that line bugs the shit out of me.
there is not a single hero on the seperatist side, unless there
are some unsung nemoidian and techno union guys we never heard of.

all we see is

-dooku (evil sith lord)
-GG (coward)
-droids....lots and lots of droids\

no heros there, from ANY point of view

Agreed, totally.

Well then that is pretty silly. GG and Dooku are clearly heroes from the POV of their own side.

ok, if you want to strip the word down to its bare meaning then fine.
but this is cimema, and cinema creates its own definitions. in cinema there
are heros and there are villains. in fact, "heros and villains" is such common
thought with films that its just downright cliche.

thats where i'm coming from
the opening crawl concerns the point of view of the audience. thus
the EVIL galactic empire and its SINISTER agents. clearly bias for the
POV of the audience and the good guys. now all of the sudden we have
an objective opening crawl? im not sure that i like that.

It's a homage to 'Hero', which has the exact same opening spiel and the same context, and a not dissimilar set-up. So that is clearly what GL wanted.

Heroism is morally neutral.

i understand ush.




its still sucks though