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Can SUperman beat this guy?

Yes Easily

Can SUperman beat this guy

Dude what made you think that Wonder man was anywhere near a match for Superman ???????

Uh I don't know.

You make it sound like Superman is going to beat him in one punch. He gave Thor and Hulk problems before.

Now that i quit playing Devils Advocate, Superman wins. It just wont be - that - easy but he wins.

'You make it sound like Superman is going to beat him in one punch. He gave Thor and Hulk problems before.

Now that i quit playing Devils Advocate, Superman wins. It just wont be - that - easy but he wins.'


Maybe not with one punch but it would be like someone less powerful than Superboy vs Superman

Do really think superboy can have Superman???

No. theyr both male

And i do consider Wonderman superior to superboy. Your talking about Conor arent you? Hes not top of the top yet while Wonderman is pretty close.

'And i do consider Wonderman superior to superboy. Your talking about Conor arent you? Hes not top of the top yet while Wonderman is pretty close.'

Thats debatable, even in the marvel universe which i believe is not quite on the same level as the D.C. universe.

The marvel universe should be on the same level but it isn't. Its not as far behind as the strength levels suggest but its not uite there.

No. theyr both male
Lol. I dont know mann.
I do think that clark has definatley got something for Bruce. GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

Originally posted by yahman
'

The marvel universe should be on the same level but it isn't. Its not as far behind as the strength levels suggest but its not uite there.

DC may have stronger characters but MU has faster characters.

this "Marvel characters are weaker" is crapolla. Both have impossible feats by the top tier and streeth levels who are ultimate jobbers.

"Thats debatable, even in the marvel universe which i believe is not quite on the same level as the D.C. universe."

and...

"The marvel universe should be on the same level but it isn't. Its not as far behind as the strength levels suggest but its not uite there."

Crapola. They are at the same level. Some heroes of Dc are more powerful than Marvels and so is the other way around.

"No. theyr both male
Lol. I dont know mann.
I do think that clark has definatley got something for Bruce. GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!"

Yes he does. Never realized the - why- his marriage with Lois sucks? There you go.

'They are at the same level. Some heroes of Dc are more powerful than Marvels and so is the other way around'

If your being general you could label every one in the Top tier as being at the same level.

But im sure you will agree that the likes of
Count Nefaria, Onslaught, Mangog, Yimir, Kurse, Morg The Executioner (With the Water of Life Powers), Midgard Serpent, The Destroyer, Champion of the Universe (With the power Gem), Drax The Destroyer (With the Power Gem), Eighth Day Juggernaught, Hyperion (Exiles), Magus, Mephisto

are on a higher level to the charcters you consider as top tier

E.g. Thor, Gladiator, Classic Juggernaught, Thanos, Angry Hulk, Hyperion, Silver Surfer, Cosmic Spiderman, Hercules (When he was an immortal), Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Morg (Normally), Kurse (original power up), Ultimate Colossus, Fallen One, Fire Lord, Desack, Tri Sentinel, Magini, She Hulk

I believe the likes of Superman, Orion, Darksied, Doomsday, Despero, Captain Marvel, Cyborg Superman, Gog, Black Adam, to be on that higher level.

"I believe the likes of Superman, Orion, Darksied, Doomsday, Despero, Captain Marvel, Cyborg Superman, Gog, Black Adam, to be on that higher level."

These on a higher level than:

"E.g. Thor, Gladiator, Classic Juggernaught, Thanos, Angry Hulk, Hyperion, Silver Surfer, Cosmic Spiderman, Hercules (When he was an immortal), Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Morg (Normally), Kurse (original power up), Ultimate Colossus, Fallen One, Fire Lord, Desack, Tri Sentinel, Magini, She Hulk"

These?

Dont see it. Care to explain why you see them on a higher level?

Are you sure mate it will take some time ?????????? and my English and punctuation is not the best .

Im not English either. And im curious to see why you think that.

Take the time.

Oh right first of all do you agree that the folowing are in a higher class

'Count Nefaria, Onslaught, Mangog, Yimir, Kurse, Morg The Executioner (With the Water of Life Powers), Midgard Serpent, The Destroyer, Champion of the Universe (With the power Gem), Drax The Destroyer (With the Power Gem), Eighth Day Juggernaught, Hyperion (Exiles), Magus, Mephisto'

to these guys

'"E.g. Thor, Gladiator, Classic Juggernaught, Thanos, Angry Hulk, Hyperion, Silver Surfer, Cosmic Spiderman, Hercules (When he was an immortal), Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Morg (Normally), Kurse (original power up), Ultimate Colossus, Fallen One, Fire Lord, Desack, Tri Sentinel, Magini, She Hulk"

I kinda agree with you on most of them yahman, but youre going to have to add alot more characters to that DC list.

What about the GL's, Atom Smasher, Wonder Woman, Amazo, Imperix, etc?

"Oh right first of all do you agree that the folowing are in a higher class

Count Nefaria, Onslaught, Mangog, Yimir, Kurse, Morg The Executioner (With the Water of Life Powers), Midgard Serpent, The Destroyer, Champion of the Universe (With the power Gem), Drax The Destroyer (With the Power Gem), Eighth Day Juggernaught, Hyperion (Exiles), Magus, Mephisto"

Yes they are.

'I kinda agree with you on most of them yahman, but you're going to have to add alot more characters to that DC list.

Cheers mate

'What about the GL's, Atom Smasher, Wonder Woman, Amazo, Imperix, etc?'

G.L (The more experienced one's ), Amazo and Imperix are definitely in this category as is Mongul (Probably)

Wonder Woman is probably in this category as well as her feats clearly indicate that she is stronger than Nefaria.

But her strength varies so much I'm not sure if she quite make it.

I no little about Atom Smasher but i kinda get the impression that he's not quite as strong as D.C. mega hitters.

He's more likely to be in the category with Thor, Thanos, Herc and Silver Surfer.

As is Power girl, Aqua man, and Martian Man hunter.

I think if Wonder Man got pissed off or focused enough i think he may actually have a chance in this. Superman in my opinion is overrated, and Wonder Man is extremely underrated. Has anyone ever read his first appearance ever in an Avengers issue? It said there that his fists were as strong as Thor's hammer, and that was before he became Ionic(When he became Ionic his base strength nearly doubled). So i think Wonder Man actually has a chance here, as long as Superman doesnt hit him with something huge like a planet or something.

Originally posted by armandovalles
I think if Wonder Man got pissed off or focused enough i think he may actually have a chance in this. Superman in my opinion is overrated, and Wonder Man is extremely underrated. Has anyone ever read his first appearance ever in an Avengers issue? It said there that his fists were as strong as Thor's hammer, and that was before he became Ionic(When he became Ionic his base strength nearly doubled). So i think Wonder Man actually has a chance here, as long as Superman doesnt hit him with something huge like a planet or something.

He used to say his fists hit like Thors hammer in almost every issue from 160 to 200 of Avengers, it never made it true

OK if you agree that these guys are stronger I'll begin to explain.

We all know that 1985 was an important year for D.C as it was the end of the Infinity Crisis and the beginning of Post Crisis Superman.

When Byrne took over Superman it was clear that he wanted to make a more realistic and interesting character. To do this he greatly depowered Superman. He was no longer the planet juggling, time traveling, Invincible God.

If you notice round about this time (E.g. From the 80's to before the 1990's), Thor Herc and Gladiator were performing similar cosmic feats. E.g.

Destroying Asteroids, Destroying Planets, Lifting the Midgard Serpent, Dragging Manhattan.

Yet since the early 90's Marvels characters have been enormously down graded.
E.G. Its now a struggle for Thor to hold up a Sky Scraper, Thanos needs the Mangog to cause havoc on a planetary level.
Marvels big hitters (E.G. Class 100 characters) rarely perform a feat greater than uprooting a tree or throwing a car.

Yet since those early Byrne days Superman, Wonder Woman and Capt Marvel have all displayed a variety of amazing Feats. Feats that only Ultimate Colossus has come any where near to replicating.

I know its not an official power down like D.C. but its definitely happened. I think it may have something to do with making the characters more realistic.

I mean take Neafria for example. In 99 he threw an Oil tanker at Iron man and then lifted a mountain sized rock. Both of these are impressive feats but they taxed his powers to the limit.

He has also shown that he is far above Thor in strength. If Thor had the cosmic level strength he once had, Nefaria would have easily been able to carry out these feats.

She hulk is another example of evidence to suggest that there has been a unofficial marvel power down.

Before her recent power up, she never showed evidence to suggest she could lift more than a couple of hundred tons. After doing a bit of weight training she is now supposed to be as strong as Herc (Who recently showed he is far stronger than Abomination).

The only way to realistically explain this is by saying that Herc was never massively stronger than her in the first place.

And even though Herc has been de powered, he still not that far behind Thor.

To summarise my point; All those Feats you use to suggest that Thor Etc are as strong as Supes are out of Date.

Superman on the other hand has shown many times that he can copy any feat performed by Count Nefaria and more.

Umm Guys ???????

Few things to consider:

She hulks case is a tricky one. She showed to be stronger than mortal Herc. We know its the mortal one because until the mini, that was his mod. Nothing indicated how she fares or would faire against immortal Herakles with her power-up. Recent mini hes back at immortal levels of strenght. Thats why he punked Abom so easily.

Thors feats or any other Marvel characters of the top tier will always be on date, since they never had a crisis to "erased them up". Theyr valid for use.

'Thor's feats or any other Marvel characters of the top tier will always be on date, since they never had a crisis to "erased them up". They're valid for use.'

Where not going to agree on this. I know there is no official incident like Crisis to confirm my suspicions.

But Marvel continuity makes me believe that Thor and Etc can no longer perform those amazing feats.
Beta Ray Bill is the only thorn in my whole theory. Which is why I'm desperate to read that series.

So unless you give me some recent (E.G. last 15 years ) examples of them performing feats on the same level as Superman and Co I'm going to continue to believe that they are not as strong.

Unless you think that She Hulk is capable of a Cosmic feats ????????????????????

You never know there are a few more books in Hercules series and he may surprise me.

And they seriously need to sort out this immortal thinggy!!!!

They can. they just dont because Marvel doesnt showcase feats in the same quantity that DC does.

In this stance we will just have to agree to disagree. Marvel way is since all is still in continuaty they dont need to show more and new feats.

Now about the immortality thingie.....im tired of making him depowered just to have him out of Hulk and Thors way. Its about time!

Yeah! Show da Lion of Olympus some respek Marvel!!

He should be physically stronger than Thor (at least by a bit)...but he's been nothing but a B/C-level hero. The mini was a step in the right direction.

What exactly is your theory on why they've changed, yahman?

I don't see it at all.

Respek Knuckles for Hercules!

Well at least Abomination already got some respect for him after the beating he got

Originally posted by olympian
Well at least Abomination already got some respect for him after the beating he got
is abomination really that bad ass?

cuz i have seen a drained Silver Surfer kick his ass easily

Originally posted by kgkg


cuz i have seen a drained Silver Surfer kick his ass easily kgkg stop lying. I already told you Abom was kicking his @ss when he was drained. When he got his power back he beat Abom.

Please read the issue.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
kgkg stop lying. I already told you Abom was kicking his @ss when he was drained. When he got his power back he beat Abom.

Please read the issue.
I did he wasn't

Rite before he battle Abo his powers where drained

So much for power returns slowly theory then.

Originally posted by kgkg
I did he wasn't

Rite before he battle Abo his powers where drained

So much for power returns slowly theory then. Abom walked away after he floored Norrin. Who knows how long it was before Norrin found him and finally beat him after Norrin said himself that his powers were fully back.

I didnt say Norrins powers returned slowly. Norrin said it twice in the same issue

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Abom walked away after he floored Norrin. Who knows how long it was before Norrin found him and finally beat him after Norrin said himself that his powers were fully back.

I didnt say Norrins powers returned slowly. Norrin said it twice in the same issue
What are you talking about?

His powers were not fully back.
First he says his powers returns slowly.
Then he says his powers are retuning then kicks his ass.

Abom is badass yes. But it doesnt mean he cant be beaten. And surfer has means to beat almost anyone without using strengh Kg. Thats how he always beat Hulk for example.

Just letting everyone one know Wonder Man beat the tar out of Abomination. Yeah he loses this fight, but it's not gonna be easy.

'What exactly is your theory on why they've changed, yahman?

I don't see it at all.'

Yeah i know Dude i didn't explain it that well.

Umm In short i believe that the Old feats of strength that are displayed by Thor and the others at this Level E.g. Herc, Glads, are no longer valid.

Not all of them but the ones on a cosmic scale. E.G. Moving and destroying objects that are on a celestial level.

(Like D.C. )Marvel has had a downgrade in strength levels. Note this has happened over a period of about 20 years.

Instead of being written into the marvel universe it's more than likely to have happened behind the scenes.

The art seen in these comics (over the last 10 to 20 years) suggests that the artists are paying far more attention to the unofficial strength level system that was produced for the role playing game.

Before this, it was made quite obvious that there was a total disregard for the strength level system, as many characters were performing feats far beyond the limits set.

E.G. Thing an 85 ton character stopping a speeding commuter train, and using a sky scraper to construct a sword

Thor a class 100 level character was destroying planetoids the size of asteroids and Lifting mythical creatures that were bigger than the earth.

Yet for the last twenty years neither characters have performed feats any where close to the same level as before. Thor still a class 100 character does perform feats beyond the 100 ton level but never on the same level as before.

His last notable display was the lifting of a Skyscraper (about 15 years ago). And it was quite clearly shown that he was struggling to do this.

As a marvel fan i would love to see Thor ETC to be as strong as they once where.

But you cant honestly believe that the Thor we have seen through out the Avengers Volume 3 and in his own title is anywhere near capable of lifting the Midagrd Serpent. I doubt he would even be capable of lifting a Sky scraper.

Originally posted by yahman
'What exactly is your theory on why they've changed, yahman?

I don't see it at all.'

Yeah i know Dude i didn't explain it that well.

Umm In short i believe that the Old feats of strength that are displayed by Thor and the others at this Level E.g. Herc, Glads, are no longer valid.

Not all of them but the ones on a cosmic scale. E.G. Moving and destroying objects that are on a celestial level.

(Like D.C. )Marvel has had a downgrade in strength levels. Note this has happened over a period of about 20 years.

Instead of being written into the marvel universe it's more than likely to have happened behind the scenes.

The art seen in these comics (over the last 10 to 20 years) suggests that the artists are paying far more attention to the unofficial strength level system that was produced for the role playing game.

Before this, it was made quite obvious that there was a total disregard for the strength level system, as many characters were performing feats far beyond the limits set.

E.G. Thing an 85 ton character stopping a speeding commuter train, and using a sky scraper to construct a sword

Thor a class 100 level character was destroying planetoids the size of asteroids and Lifting mythical creatures that were bigger than the earth.

Yet for the last twenty years neither characters have performed feats any where close to the same level as before. Thor still a class 100 character does perform feats beyond the 100 ton level but never on the same level as before.

His last notable display was the lifting of a Skyscraper (about 15 years ago). And it was quite clearly shown that he was struggling to do this.

As a marvel fan i would love to see Thor ETC to be as strong as they once where.

But you cant honestly believe that the Thor we have seen through out the Avengers Volume 3 and in his own title is anywhere near capable of lifting the Midagrd Serpent. I doubt he would even be capable of lifting a Sky scraper.
During an Avengers issue Moses Magnum attacked the JFK Airport, Thor substained on his shoulders an entire section of the airport, and he sayed he'll hold it for weeks if its needed.
Thor was able to fight against Ulik, Fenris, and Hymir all pumped up from copies of Mjolnir and K.O. them.
And any being powered up by an hammer like Mjolnir obtains enhanced strenght and so.
Thor has slammed

'an Avengers issue Moses Magnum attacked the JFK Airport, Thor substained on his shoulders an entire section of the airport, and he sayed he'll hold it for weeks if its needed.
Thor was able to fight against Ulik, Fenris, and Hymir all pumped up from copies of Mjolnir and K.O. them.
And any being powered up by an hammer like Mjolnir obtains enhanced strenght and so.
Thor has slammed'

Dude when did this happen with the airport????????? was it recently?????????

If it wasn't it kinda proves my point!!!!!!!!

The other thing took place when he was King Thora and thats a different matter.