Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

I don't think Fantastic Four has a chance against this guys. But that's just my opinion.

Fantastic Four.

Fantastic Four.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Fantastic Four.

doh


The FF owns them.


Ben vs Colossus

box

I think Fantastic Four has the skill to pay the bills.

Could go either way.

the only problem would be Mr. fantastic and sue, but they can be taken out. I'd give this to the other four

If wolverine was replaced by a telekinetic such as psylocke and spiderman was replaced by spiderwoman (Venom blasts. What could spidey do to MrF.) then the teams are a lot fairer and more balanced. Prsently the F4 win easily. Storm would go against human torch, Colossus against Thing. What the hell are wolverine and Spidey gonna do against Mr F and IW?

well considering storm has easily beaten torch before, and easwily snuffed his flame before he won't be a problem. and colossus can handle Ben. it might be possible for storm to affect the inside of sues field, and if she can then sue is out. but it is clearly within storms limit to do this. then it's ben and reed VS spidey, storm, wolverine, and colossus. i'd say the other 4 win

This could be close but the FF are far better team fighters making this somewhat imbalanced, Sue has become MUCH stronger, and Reed is still questionable.

well the FF are fighting 4 very, very good strategists

Why is Wolverine always thrown into these fights where he's really not very relevant considering the other players?

Imo the FF take it. They're a better unit and I agree Sue is one of Marvel's very powerful women. They're four good strategists (well I dunno bout Piotr) but they don't have any time to learn to work together as a unit as effectively as the FF.

That is a good point as well: SPEEDBALL SPECIAL.

Spiderman could take torch,as he's more resourceful and experienced, these two have helped each other in the past.

Colossus could barely take thing. But he would serve a greater purpose, launching Spiderman and Wolverine towards their opponents.

Reed and wolverine could be a tie, I don't see how they would defeat the other, but I'm leaning towards wolverine.

Storm and Sue could very well be a draw, because storm has more versatility and distancing.

I say tie, but 1on1 the FF wouldn't fare as well, but seeing as they are a team, and FF work together constantly I could see it thier favor as well.

Considerin that 3 members are Xmen, they work well fine, and spiderman should fit right in with them, so I say tie for now.

well conssidering spiderman has worked very well with storm and wolverine that shouldn't be a problem, and colossus trusts storm all the way, they would work well together. sue can't hide in this because storm is able to alter her sences to see energy patterns and heat signatures. projecting her powers inside of sue's shield would be well within storms capabilities. torch isn't really questionable here seeing as storm has already beaten him and she snuffed his flame easily twice. the only real problems are fantastic and sue, though fantastic can be taken out by heat or cold i am pretty sure.

Mmmm....thats assuming that those people take eachother on....anyone could take anyone.....at what temp does Colossus melt? cuz im sure that Torch can reach it.....also what is anyone (exept storm) gonna do if sue puts them in a individual forcefields.....and storm would be the only problem cuz even if she is in a bubble she can still work her powers....idk right now

Temporary lapse of judgement made me think these were four random characters. 3 are X-Men they'd work fine together
Spidey as an addition shouldn't stir things up too bad.

I'm thinking tie but with a slight lean towards FF.

As the lineups stand id go for the F4. That is such a rubbish Xmen lineup. No one is more suited to take out HT than here than Storm but with her out of the picture the rest are done for. Thing occupies Peter and Wolverine and Spidey dont stand a chance against the teamwork of IW and MrF

Spidey could take care of torch, he has helped him fine in the past, and Johhny has been beaten by those not too impressive.

Storm would be better against Sue IMO

Why is wolverine here, is he a hit soaker for sue or something? Or was he just put here to have more people put their opinions on?

He can't attack airbornes, he has short range, he's pretty obsolete here really.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Why is wolverine here, is he a hit soaker for sue or something? Or was he just put here to have more people put their opinions on?

He can't attack airbornes, he has short range, he's pretty obsolete here really.

It cos shaolin wanted F4 to win

I guess......

Actually I think shaolin just expects too much of poor ol' Wolverine.

Anyway we're all assuming that they will pair off into predictable pairs, Thing-Colossus, Storm-IW. Different scenarios are possible.

Colossus and spidey or Colossus and wolverine could do a SPEEDBALL SPECIAL!!

well i seriously think torch and storm will go at it because they have already fought and storm makes him look very, very weak. if it comes down to storm VS human torch, storm wins easy.

then again storm and sue might go at it because they are the only women there. i bet storm could take care of sue because all storm needs is one attack to take sue out. she is still a human, and storm will noly need one bolt to take care of sue. if sue turns invisable, storm can track her through sue's energy. if sue puts up a field, storm simply affects the inside of the field. i believe storm could take on sue. then storm goes to aid whoever is going at torch and takes torch out. then it's fantastic, and grimm VS storm, colossus, wolverine and possibly spidey if he wasn't taken out already.

Torch nova-blasts the lot of them. Vaporization complete.

but he wouldn't do that

Storm may have beaten human torch before but I heard that he let her because if he tried anything he might kill her

Originally posted by steverules
Storm may have beaten human torch before but I heard that he let her because if he tried anything he might kill her


Yeah that happened in the contest of Champions 2. The Fantastic four win this because of their teamwork skilz.

teamwork, but 3 of these are x men,but wolverine is in here needlessly.

I don't see torch as a strong link in this at all.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
teamwork, but 3 of these are x men,but wolverine is in here needlessly.

I don't see torch as a strong link in this at all.

Thats a good point about the X-men team. I think that I Invisible Woman just puts a force field around the FF she can easily kill the opponents..............

Not THAT easily, Storm should keep her busy for a good amount of time.

if she puts a shield around her team, storm simpy affects the inside. yeah, but storm has also snuffed out torches flame while not even trying to do so, so it would it be easy for her to take him down.

If the FF were quick enough to get a force field around them then they might be protected but how long can invisible woman keep the force field up. I heard that Reed made a machine that can cut adamantium but I'm not sure if he has the heart to cut wolvie's adamantium. Reed is one of the smrtest in the marvel universe he'd probabvly find a way for the FF to win.

I know that the FF can very much win, and wolverine should be replaced by shadowcat or nightcrawler, 2 very much more usable characters, than wolverine.

If the FF were quick enough to get a force field around them then they might be protected



^^steve, no they won;t. because storm can affect the inside

I may be overestimating the lovely Sue Storm but couldn't she just forcefield off her opponents throats or expand a forcefield inside their skulls causing an embolism?

that would kill them, and sue wouldn't do that unless the x-men killed her son. but even then, it would depend on who would attack her first, one of the x-men or her

This obviously doesnt go in Fantastic 4's favor...
1.Colossus is at least more durable and maybe even stronger than Thing
2.Storm has beaten Human Torch quite easily
3.Wolverine would murder Fantastic in a second
4.Spiderman could easily defeat Fantastic and could hold his own against Torch
5.Even if Colossus cant defeat Thing,everyone else would probably go down and he will be ganged up on
6.The only way they could win is if Sue used he force fields to kill everybody,but they have the speed advantage so she probably wont get a chance

I don't think wolverine or spidey would beat fantastic, i mean isn't his body immune to attack like that or something?

Blocking off their throats wouldn't necessarily kill them... she could just do so until they pass out, then release the forcefields.

if she boocks their throats then storm hits her with lightning right away, since sue is human one bolt should take her out, which will make the fields dissapear. or colossus just goes up and punshes her or her field, she will have to realese one and i bet she would release the throats

Originally posted by stormfront13
I don't think wolverine or spidey would beat fantastic, i mean isn't his body immune to attack like that or something? no he can just stretch out to lessen impact. Wolverine could still cut him if he got the jump on him and Spidey could tire him out and start pounding him

yeah, you may be right. i think the fantastic four are so overrated, sue and their tweamwork can't save them everytime

Originally posted by stormfront13
if she boocks their throats then storm hits her with lightning right away, since sue is human one bolt should take her out, which will make the fields dissapear. or colossus just goes up and punshes her or her field, she will have to realese one and i bet she would release the throats

Based on the assumption that Storm can concentrate to generate a lightning bolt while she's asphyxiating and that she can maintain flight at the same time. I like Storm but it's not that clear cut.

I remembered Colossus would be unaffected by Sue doing this.

I'm thinking either team could win depending on circumstances.

Originally posted by stormfront13
yeah, you may be right. i think the fantastic four are so overrated, sue and their tweamwork can't save them everytime

Just because they with a lesser number of characters (4) can always beat down any actual X-team anytime or place.

. Doesn't mean you have to be a hero hater.

And yes teamwork means a hell of a lot. And they've been doing it together longer than anyone as a team.

Thats why they're the best.

she would still be able to use her powers even though she can't breath, it might be suprising that she can't breath, but she can still shoot lightning

Oh God. Who decided to put Wolverine on this team?

Wolverine will get the crap beat out of him. He is useless against this team. Replace Wolverine with Nightcrawler, and then you have a definite win for the X-men and Spiderman.

Colossus can take Thing and win after a long, drawn-out battle. Just for kicks, Nightcrawler can help if he has to. Even Spiderman.

Spidey or Storm can take Human Torch. Whoever does it, HT goes down cuz he won't go Nova.

Nightcrawler or Storm could take Invisble Woman. Storm could affect the inside of her forefield or just strike her with lightning if she's fast enough. Nightcrawler could teleport inside her forcefield and teleport out of them if he has to.

Nightcrawler or Spiderman could take Mr. Fantastic. Both are easily able to outmanuever Reed's attacks and can just as easily get in close-range. Spidey can web him up, which would only stop him for a second, but that second might be all that Spidey needs. He could also just wear him down and get some hits in. Nightcrawler would just need to teleport up close, attack, teleport again, rinse and repeat. Or he could grab Mr. Fantastic and teleport him into things, like a brick wall, or uh...I dunno, somewhere really cold would work, too. It would slow Mr. Fantastic down a lot.

Either way, if you replace Wolverine with Nightcrawler, the X-men and Spiderman easily win this one.

i believe storm is the key to victory on this one, i mean one-on-one she could take all of fantastic four.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Oh God. Who decided to put Wolverine on this team?

Wolverine will get the crap beat out of him. He is useless against this team. Replace Wolverine with Nightcrawler, and then you have a definite win for the X-men and Spiderman.

Colossus can take Thing and win after a long, drawn-out battle. Just for kicks, Nightcrawler can help if he has to. Even Spiderman.

Spidey or Storm can take Human Torch. Whoever does it, HT goes down cuz he won't go Nova.

Nightcrawler or Storm could take Invisble Woman. Storm could affect the inside of her forefield or just strike her with lightning if she's fast enough. Nightcrawler could teleport inside her forcefield and teleport out of them if he has to.

Nightcrawler or Spiderman could take Mr. Fantastic. Both are easily able to outmanuever Reed's attacks and can just as easily get in close-range. Spidey can web him up, which would only stop him for a second, but that second might be all that Spidey needs. He could also just wear him down and get some hits in. Nightcrawler would just need to teleport up close, attack, teleport again, rinse and repeat. Or he could grab Mr. Fantastic and teleport him into things, like a brick wall, or uh...I dunno, somewhere really cold would work, too. It would slow Mr. Fantastic down a lot.

Either way, if you replace Wolverine with Nightcrawler, the X-men and Spiderman easily win this one.

I agree... replacing Wolvie with Shadowcat would also ensure a win for the team. Often underestimated an angry Nightcrawler or a pissed off Shadowcat are very dangerous.

yeah, i agree i would rather have nightcrawler here, but it doesn't mattyer, the x-men win this anyway

Originally posted by stormfront13
i believe storm is the key to victory on this one, i mean one-on-one she could take all of fantastic four.

lol but you always think Storm is the key to victory
She probably is here though.
IW and Storm would be a good fight.

wel as powerful adn versatile as she is, sometimes she is, but here she definitley is. but storm should beat invisable woman, all it needs os ine attack, and her invisability won't work, neither will her force-fields

Originally posted by stormfront13
i believe storm is the key to victory on this one, i mean one-on-one she could take all of fantastic four.

No offense, Stormfront13, but I really don't believe that she would be able to take on the whole Fantastic Four herself. She's powerful, yes. One of my favorites even. But she's just not that powerful.

I mean, seriously, what would she do against Thing?

And then there's Mr. Fantastic. I thought of a very clever way that he would beat her. First, dodging her attacks, he moves close to her (Easy since he can stretch and stuff). Then he brings all of his body around on her, and forms a small, tight bubble around her. Oh no, his plan is not to suffocate her, but to induce her horrific fear of claustrophobia. Storm would literally freak and spaz until she passed out.

I love her, but she couldn't do it on her own.

no, not all at once, separatley. and if fantastic wants to do that, then he can but did you see what happened when doom did something similar? storm went insane and was warping weather patterns all over the world with a thought. she created a world-wide storm with no effort and the x-men couldn't sop her. they told her she was just like dark-phoenix, and in the same form she easily blew up a boom-bot with one bolt. and i have been told that the thing needs to breath, it was always being brought up in the thing VS colossus threads and storm can easily suffocate him.

I'm really just arguing FF for arguments sake.. I'm thinking this would be 5/10 to each side, it all really depends on the situation

If we switch the players around different things can occur.
Torch can stay out of reach by flight and superheat Colossus... all metal has a melting point. If Storm tries to snuff out his flame with rain she runs the risk of causing Colossus to cool to rapidly and fracture as he has before.
I know it's gross but Mr. Fantastic could conceivably force his way down Storm's throat... that would be shocking enough for anyone to lose concentration.
IW handles Wolverine and Spider-Man with ease.
Thing is there in reserve.

I seriously don't think Storm would be able to maintain flight and concentrate enough to both generate a lightning bolt and aim correctly at Sue if she tried to block off Storm's throat. I can't remember if Sue's fields can protect from energetic attacks.

sues fields might be able to protect, but storm can affect the inside. all it takes is one hit, and the shields should be released. it only takes a thought to send a bolt. storm could just elect4rify the air inside sues field so then storm doesn't even have to aim.

storm knows from expierence that rain alone might not snuff him out so she will use wind, as she has in the past

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm really just arguing FF for arguments sake.. I'm thinking this would be 5/10 to each side, it all really depends on the situation

If we switch the players around different things can occur.
Torch can stay out of reach by flight and superheat Colossus... all metal has a melting point. If Storm tries to snuff out his flame with rain she runs the risk of causing Colossus to cool to rapidly and fracture as he has before.
I know it's gross but Mr. Fantastic could conceivably force his way down Storm's throat... that would be shocking enough for anyone to lose concentration.
IW handles Wolverine and Spider-Man with ease.
Thing is there in reserve.

I seriously don't think Storm would be able to maintain flight and concentrate enough to both generate a lightning bolt and aim correctly at Sue if she tried to block off Storm's throat. I can't remember if Sue's fields can protect from energetic attacks.

Oh yea, I meant to answer that question earlier. Thanks for bringing it up. Colossus's melting point is 12,000 degrees F. I know that it can be achieved by HT, but that's a pretty high temperature. He'd risk burning the entire city or where they're fighting in. I could just see their arena going up in a blazing glory because of Human Torch.

And to defend Storm, she wouldn't have to cool Colossus as well. She can actually control where her cold weather/rainstorms go. For example, she's able to produce a small 1'x1' rain cloud to water her plants. She can easily do the same to HT without damaging Colossus.

Gah. I'm still pissed that Wolverine is in this fight. He's more of a liability than anything. The others will have to look out for him.

If the FF don't hold back they'd win this but as they do hold back I'd say team X-Spidey win... with Wolverine being absolutely redundant... but it's not as easy as some would make it out to be. If you replaced Wolvie with another X-Man e.g. Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, then I'd say Team X-Spidey would definitely win more often than not.

Storm is strong, tough and extremely strongwilled. She's a force to be reckoned with.

But she's not on Sues level.

Note : if I were Colossus, I would leave Thing for what he is, and focus on Reed. I don't see Reed winning from Colossus. As far as I know, there's nothing he can do to hurt Colossus.

Wolverine would make this a very difficult fight for the FF to win because Sue isn't going to be able to just maintain forcefields indefinitely and Wolvy can slice Mr.Fantastic.

The nova blast is something that Johnny can't surprise the foursome with because Spider-man's danger sense will go nuts as soon as Johnny makes up his mind on this course of action. Spidey will know that the only thing that could make his Spider-sense blare, warning danger from every direction is the nova attack that only the torch is capable of. With a quick shout to his teammates and a webbing shield over himself and Storm and they WOULD survive the blast. ( Collosus should be alright and would probably protect Wolverine from the blast enough to keep him alive. The FF would have to be protected from the blast by Sue as well and that may be a problem as they will all be very busy.)

The Thing is outmatched by the combination of Wolverine and Colossus as he cannot ignore either one and though he may knock Wolverine out he'll regain consciousness before his team is defeated. Sue is the only one on the FF's team that can put Collosus out of commision and like I said before she will be quite busy protecting herself. She can't hide because Wolverine WILL smell her.

Johnny Storm's weakness should be exploited immediately as Storm causes the battle field to be caught in a torrential rainstorm.

In an all out fight, the Fantastic Four would be outmatched battling three very powerful mutants and an unrelenting Spider-man.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Spidey ... can take Human Torch. How?

Originally posted by The MISTER
Spider-man's danger sense will go nuts as soon as Johnny makes up his mind on this course of action. So he IS a mind reader. . .

I really don't think webbing shields are gonna hold up against a nova blast of 1,000,000 F and Colossus would melt and Wolvie would die.

web sheild? colossus surviving?? wha?? C melts and so would spidy and storm and anyone else....I think that X had an alright strategy to this, reed goin for the throat, torch for wolvie and Colossus and IW takes spidy and helps torch....thing is just there....

Depending on the comic, a nova takes some time, and after that, he's completely exhausted. And he'll run the risk to fry his family and Thing too.

Why would he even need to go nova?

Storm is the only one that proves a threat to the FF here.

Hmm... to melt Colossus takes 1.2% the temp of a nova.

I'm still thinking tie but leaning towards FF. Depends on the scenario.

This could occur...
Torch goes after Colossus.
IW can handle Wolverine and Spidey.
Mr. Fantastic could get an airborne Storm to the ground to a waiting Thing where a gentle tap could knock her out.

I'm afraid I don't know the melting point of organic steel. What I do know is that Torch has great powers, but little common sense.

He'll be the first one to go down. Though I still think that Colossus should fight Reed first. If the leader is down, half of the battle is fought.

According to Metalmanx Colossus melts at 12,000 F.

I want a feasible reason as to why torch would successfully pull off a nova with everyone around.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I want a feasible reason as to why torch would successfully pull off a nova with everyone around. Why would he need to?

Storm is the only one that is a threat to him.

Originally posted by Creshosk
How?

So he IS a mind reader. . .

It was a while ago that you implied that Spider-man's Spidersense doesn't warn him of danger until the danger begins.....Not So.

Spider-man has defused many bombs by using his Spider-sense to tell him which wires NOT to pull. It warns him before the danger begins and it tells him which direction it's coming from. It's been doing this same thing for so long I'm surprised that you aren't aware of how it has worked waaaay more times than it has been negated just like nightcrawler's ability to teleport was negated in the secret war battle that you spoke of in the past.

Spidey's not an imbecile...The only one capable of making his Spider-sense go berserk is the torch....Do you think that the spider-sense registers the same way every time as well as thinking that it comes in late? I would think that he's at least a little used to deciphering it by now.

Regardless....Glad to see ya back Creshosk..

Originally posted by The MISTER
It was a while ago that you implied that Spider-man's Spidersense doesn't warn him of danger until the danger begins.....Not So. But it triggers right upon someone deciding what they're going to do?

Originally posted by The MISTER
Spider-man has defused many bombs by using his Spider-sense to tell him which wires NOT to pull. But did it warn him when the bomb maker was making the bomb? Or planting it?

Originally posted by The MISTER
It warns him before the danger begins and it tells him which direction it's coming from. It's been doing this same thing for so long I'm surprised that you aren't aware of how it has worked waaaay more times than it has been negated just like nightcrawler's ability to teleport was negated in the secret war battle that you spoke of in the past. Problem is people overestimate his spidersense. Because he has been hit before while trying to figure out what the danger is. It's not a true precog.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Spidey's not an imbecile...The only one capable of making his Spider-sense go berserk is the torch....Do you think that the spider-sense registers the same way every time as well as thinking that it comes in late? I would think that he's at least a little used to deciphering it by now.So Sue planing on projectiong a forcefeild wouldn't set it off? Or reed planning on grabbing him, or thing throwing something?

Come on, as soon as torch decides to do something, spiderman is well aware of everything the torch is going to do?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Why would he need to?

Storm is the only one that is a threat to him.

Colossus and Ben are a stalemate.

Wolverine can keep reed busy.

Spiderman can barely beat firelord.

Storm can keep sue busy, IMO.

And as far as the torches nova blast is concerned....He's not melting down a city with it cause he was exhausted after using it on one opponent in the secret wars I think......What I'm sure of is that the blast only affected about 2-3 blocks worth of an area, and I may be exxagerating so it doesn't seem like I'm downplaying it. I think Cap was ground zero for the blast as well and was protected by his shield so I'm not impressed by it's efficiency.

I know he used it in the secret wars but I haven't read that comic in a while...I'm recalling this from memory.

How's Nova going to be an effective move in this match?

Originally posted by stormfront13
i believe storm is the key to victory on this one, i mean one-on-one she could take all of fantastic four.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
How's Nova going to be an effective move in this match? if he did that he could beat any of the other team members

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Spiderman can barely beat firelord. Not without outside circumstances. . .

You seriously beliveve that Spiderman can just go 1 on 1 with firelord without outside help?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Not without outside circumstances. . .

You seriously beliveve that Spiderman can just go 1 on 1 with firelord without outside help?

I don't think he can beat him period.

Where'd you quote that, get the entire quote, as I probably went against that.
What was outside help, the avengers hadn't ariived yet.

Originally posted by black robb
*cough* fanboy*cough

Well Storm is the key, as she's the one to take out the biggest threat to the Excess Team.

Of course a good tornado could probably take out any of the FF one on one. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
Well Storm is the key, as she's the one to take out the biggest threat to the Excess Team.

Of course a good tornado could probably take out any of the FF one on one. . . you got me there...

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I don't think he can beat him period. Then why bring him into this?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Where'd you quote that, get the entire quote, as I probably went against that.
What was outside help, the avengers hadn't ariived yet. The building the explosion and potentially outside circumstances that we didn't see. For all we know Galactus sneezed, or yawned or something and for a split second accidently revoked all of his herald's (ex and otherwise) powers, allowing spiderman to hit firelord and knock him out.

Where did I bring him into this?

Originally posted by Creshosk
But it triggers right upon someone deciding what they're going to do?

But did it warn him when the bomb maker was making the bomb? Or planting it?

Problem is people overestimate his spidersense. Because he has been hit before while trying to figure out what the danger is. It's not a true precog.

So Sue planing on projectiong a forcefeild wouldn't set it off? Or reed planning on grabbing him, or thing throwing something?

Come on, as soon as torch decides to do something, spiderman is well aware of everything the torch is going to do?

It triggers before danger begins, it's intensity tells him the level of danger, and he also senses what direction the danger is coming from.

I never implied that he is reading anyones mind....If someone points a weapon at you don't you make the assumption that they might use it? Does that make you a mind reader when they use it and you defend yourself? Or does it mean that you are just aware of what your opponent is capable of? Spider-man knows what Johnnys capable of and the Spidersense is aware of all danger and has been noted for that many times.

And how is Storm the only threat? Wolverine can put Mr. Fantastic out of the fight and has cut the thing before.
Are there any more questions?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Where did I bring him into this?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell On Today @ 03:08 PM
Colossus and Ben are a stalemate.

Wolverine can keep reed busy.

Spiderman can barely beat firelord.

Storm can keep sue busy, IMO.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=353924&perpage=20&highlight=firelord&pagenumber=4

Whoops, than I meant torch, thanks for correcting that.

Originally posted by The MISTER
It triggers before danger begins, it's intensity tells him the level of danger, and he also senses what direction the danger is coming from.

I never implied that he is reading anyones mind....If someone points a weapon at you don't you make the assumption that they might use it? Does that make you a mind reader when they use it and you defend yourself? Or does it mean that you are just aware of what your opponent is capable of? Spider-man knows what Johnnys capable of and the Spidersense is aware of all danger and has been noted for that many times.So if they point it at you with no intent to fire the spidersense won't go off?

And then they twitch and accidently pull the trigger. . . well obviously there was no danger as the spidersense reads "intent".

Originally posted by The MISTER
And how is Storm the only threat? Wolverine can put Mr. Fantastic out of the fight and has cut the thing before.
Are there any more questions? What can any of the others do to HT?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Whoops, than I meant torch, thanks for correcting that. Okay then. . how does spiderman beat Hothead?

It doesn't matter i think fantastic 4 would lose.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Okay then. . how does spiderman beat Hothead?

Its not how, its by the fact that spiderman is the greater strategic thinker, and more experienced with foes than Torch. If this opponent had the intelligence of reed, he would easily win, but he only has offense and a maneuverability advantage.

His character: Torch is more of a saucy type, he rushes into fights withough thinking of the situation too well. That being said, he often gets beaten by guys he has no right to, like Kraven's son. If torch's best move is nova which is obsolete, then he has no chances of reliably hitting spiderman from a great distance, because the further and safer a way he is, than the less likely he is to hit.

With that being said, spiderman has reflected his stronger attacks away, and a sufficient blow would knock him out. This is where a distraction would come in handy. Colossus uses a speedball special or something of that nature with logan-, and whap!! Torch can be hit from behind from a well place attack.

I'm assuming this is in New York city, because of the location of the hero's naturally, so this is spiderman's playground many instruments can be used to his advantage, and he is the master of his environment.

Spidey vs. torch6/10, depending on thought.

The entire match 5/10, the FF work well together, but have no leader. Xmen work well together, but who is leading? I would lean towards FF,simply because wolverine hasn't a good use, but storm is there, so it makes up for it.

If we leave aside the predictable match-ups. One possible scenario...

Torch can burn the flesh off Wolverine's skeleton straight at the start making him a non-factor. IW traps Spidey and blocks off Spideys throat with a forcefield until he passes out.

A nova flame is unnecessary according to Metalmanx Colossus melts at 12,000 F which is roughly 1% of a nova flame.

Storm is the major threat. Reed take her out of the skies. Thing taps her on the back of the head and she'd be down.

I'm still thinking overall 5/10 either way. Replace Wolverine with someone useful and I give it to the X/Spidey team.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So if they point it at you with no intent to fire the spidersense won't go off?

And then they twitch and accidently pull the trigger. . . well obviously there was no danger as the spidersense reads "intent".

What can any of the others do to HT?

You got it man, the Spider-sense does let him know when someone's not going to fire because it has different levels of intensity...and it warn's him of all danger so that includes intent to harm but doesn't exclude stray projectiles (which he's dodged before) and any type of danger that is in his immediate vicinity.

His Spider-sense once went off when he passed an unfamiliar door and when he got closer it got stronger. Nothing that posed an imminent threat was inside, but he sensed the danger regardless because of the fact that it was one of the goblins secret supply rooms....What was inside WAS dangerous so he sensed it.

If storm puts the torch out what can HE do to anyone on the team? HT had better go nova but that doesn't guarantee the FF a win but it does guarantee that he's out of the fight.

X, you know i respect you and everything, but how exactley will fantastic get storm out of the skies?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Its not how, its by the fact that spiderman is the greater strategic thinker, and more experienced with foes than Torch. If this opponent had the intelligence of reed, he would easily win, but he only has offense and a maneuverability advantage.

His character: Torch is more of a saucy type, he rushes into fights withough thinking of the situation too well. That being said, he often gets beaten by guys he has no right to, like Kraven's son. If torch's best move is nova which is obsolete, then he has no chances of reliably hitting spiderman from a great distance, because the further and safer a way he is, than the less likely he is to hit.

With that being said, spiderman has reflected his stronger attacks away, and a sufficient blow would knock him out. This is where a distraction would come in handy. Colossus uses a speedball special or something of that nature with logan-, and whap!! Torch can be hit from behind from a well place attack.

I'm assuming this is in New York city, because of the location of the hero's naturally, so this is spiderman's playground many instruments can be used to his advantage, and he is the master of his environment.

Spidey vs. torch6/10, depending on thought.

The entire match 5/10, the FF work well together, but have no leader. Xmen work well together, but who is leading? I would lean towards FF,simply because wolverine hasn't a good use, but storm is there, so it makes up for it.

Blah blah, you got nothing as to how Spiderman is even going to touch torch.

Spiderman verses Torch, How does spiderman even touch him?

Webbing? So now that stuff is inflamible?

OR how about with his fists? Because Spiderman is inflamable. . .

Originally posted by stormfront13
X, you know i respect you and everything, but how exactley will fantastic get storm out of the skies?

Iunno stretching. It was just a potential scenario. Storm wouldn't start in the sky anyway it's not an automatic power.

I like X-Men better than FF. But I know if the Fantastic Four didn't hold back then they'd win. Even if they do hold back like normal I still think it's a 5/10.

He gets hurt by people less capable than spiderman all of the time.

Why don't you try?

Originally posted by The MISTER
You got it man, the Spider-sense does let him know when someone's not going to fire because it has different levels of intensity...and it warn's him of all danger so that includes intent to harm but doesn't exclude stray projectiles (which he's dodged before) and any type of danger that is in his immediate vicinity. Other dangers? Like Ben, sue or reed?

Because he'll know exactly who is planing something and exactly what they're planning.

Originally posted by The MISTER
His Spider-sense once went off when he passed an unfamiliar door and when he got closer it got stronger. Nothing that posed an imminent threat was inside, but he sensed the danger regardless because of the fact that it was one of the goblins secret supply rooms....What was inside WAS dangerous so he sensed it. So because something inside is dangerous he senses it, must suck to walk past weopon shops or. . hell cars can be dangerous so his sense must be going off all the time. . . or is it only things that are dangerous plotwise?

Originally posted by The MISTER
If storm puts the torch out what can HE do to anyone on the team? See? that's why storm is the key, she takes out hot head, who was the biggest threat.

Originally posted by The MISTER
HT had better go nova but that doesn't guarantee the FF a win but it does guarantee that he's out of the fight. If he has the time to go nova then by last man standing the FF wins because HT will go down, but last. I don't think anyone would survive to see HT pass out. . . as I don't think any of them can be within close proximity to the sun. . .

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If we leave aside the predictable match-ups. One possible scenario...

Torch can burn the flesh off Wolverine's skeleton straight at the start making him a non-factor. IW traps Spidey and blocks off Spideys throat with a forcefield until he passes out.

A nova flame is unnecessary according to Metalmanx Colossus melts at 12,000 F which is roughly 1% of a nova flame.

Storm is the major threat. Reed take her out of the skies. Thing taps her on the back of the head and she'd be down.

I'm still thinking overall 5/10 either way. Replace Wolverine with someone useful and I give it to the X/Spidey team. Wolverine will not just stand still while the torch fires at him and Storm can negate the torches powers immediately by causing a simple downpour. Sue is the wild card here so the Thing and Reed had better protect her while she plants forcefields in her enemies brains.

I personally think that Reed gets sliced by Wolvy and the Thing had better focus on what Collosus is up to, but if Sue is too busy protecting Reed from getting sliced and the drenched powerless torch from death from any one of the excess team, how will she protect herself?

Don't worry CM, they haven't anything to prove, and are just being mean....

Downpours can be blocked by force fields

k, storm is the key to wimming this battle. more than likely colossus and grimm wil fight, so storm doesn't need to worry about ben right now. storm will p[rolly go after torch because they have fought before and she knows how to beat him. she easily has blown out his flame twice so at the same time she snuffs his flame then summons a bolt to take him out. once torch os out storm will probably go after sue. al storm has to do is electrify the air inside sues forcefield to take her out because sue it still human. then that leaves reed, storm will call a pocket of extreme cold, snow, and rain around, literally freezing him. hell if she wanted to she could just flash-0freeze his entire body.

Sue's easily the largest threat here, as is storm. A battle of the babes.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Sue's easily the largest threat here, as is storm. A battle of the babes. I'd still say that HT is a bit higher, as aside from storm what can the other's do to HT?

sue isn't much of a threat with storm here, storm can take her out(unless they are in some sort of killing mood)

I just have a few things to say.

I think that if Sue puts Storm in a bubble, that takes her out. Why? Because Storm still has her claustraphobic(sp?) weakness. If noone can get her out in time, shes out plain and simple.

Theres no way that Torche's fire blasts can hit Spidey. Spiderman is way to fast to get hit by projectiles from Torch. Torch would have to come down and possibly get a bit closer in order to be effective. Webbing will have NO effect at all without prep from Spiderman. If they can use surroundings, a resourceful Spidey can get some water from a hydrant of something. Hes way smarter that Torchy. Hed surely find a way to take him out. Unless Torch goes nova ofcourse and ends the whole dam fight.

Thing beats Colossus. I like Colossus, but Thing would have his number. They are very close in strength, so thats not a factor. Thing has the superior fighting ability which gives him the advantage. Would he be able to knock Rasputin out? I think so.

Wolverine aint going to be able to hurt Reed and vise versa. If he can tie him in a knot, Reed is out. Otherwise, they'll fight forever.

Human Torch/Mr. Fantastic/The Thing/Invisible Woman
vs
Spider-Man/Wolverine/Storm/Colossus

No chance, F4 loses. Mr. Fantastic isn't gonna last long against anyone, Human Torch is screwed by Storm, Colossus could most likely take The Thing and Invisible Woman can be beaten by Spider-Man. How? He can sense the danger so her being invisible isn't as useful as it seems.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Other dangers? Like Ben, sue or reed?

Because he'll know exactly who is planing something and exactly what they're planning.

So because something inside is dangerous he senses it, must suck to walk past weopon shops or. . hell cars can be dangerous so his sense must be going off all the time. . . or is it only things that are dangerous plotwise?

See? that's why storm is the key, she takes out hot head, who was the biggest threat.

If he has the time to go nova then by last man standing the FF wins because HT will go down, but last. I don't think anyone would survive to see HT pass out. . . as I don't think any of them can be within close proximity to the sun. . .

Truly which one can emit a blast of all-encompassing power capable of destroying a city block or two Ben, Sue, or Reed?

You're trying to be funny but I know you know I'm not implying that he can read minds. However he is well aware of what each member of the four is capable of.

In the origin of Spider-man a car set the Spider-sense off and he avoided it without even being aware of why he was dodging. Yeah cars set it off when they're DANGEROUS but why would things that aren't dangerous set it off? The Goblins weapons are not typical weapons and the Spider-sense lets him know when he's being watched while he changes. It's extremely sensative and it's explained even more in the cosmic Spidey saga.

I think that if Sue puts Storm in a bubble, that takes her out. Why? Because Storm still has her claustraphobic(sp?) weakness. If noone can get her out in time, shes out plain and simple.


^^yes, storm will be scared of being in an invisable bubble where she can see what she is doing, and can see she sky, and can still use her powers and see her teammates. if somehow storm was scared(won't happen) then storm will become the same person she did when doom did the same thing. did you see that? she was a dark-phoenix with weather powers.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Theres no way that Torche's fire blasts can hit Spidey. Spiderman is way to fast to get hit by projectiles from Torch. Torch would have to come down and possibly get a bit closer in order to be effective. Webbing will have NO effect at all without prep from Spiderman. If they can use surroundings, a resourceful Spidey can get some water from a hydrant of something. Hes way smarter that Torchy. Hed surely find a way to take him out. Unless Torch goes nova ofcourse and ends the whole dam fight. Thank you you'r the first one to say how spiderman can threaten HT. . however you overlook how difficult it'd be to hiot torch with the water from a hydrant while dodging his attacks.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'd still say that HT is a bit higher, as aside from storm what can the other's do to HT?

Sue is perhaps the most powerful of the FF

Torch's best attack is NULLIFIED.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Thank you you'r the first one to say how spiderman can threaten HT. . however you overlook how difficult it'd be to hiot torch with the water from a hydrant while dodging his attacks.

and how difficult he will have a time of hitting spiderman, if he's not close, and spiderman would dodge it all day.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Truly which one can emit a blast of all-encompassing power capable of destroying a city block or two Ben, Sue, or Reed? Depends on if they've been powered up. Like the other bricks (no pun intended) Ben might be able to do a shockwave. . . sue I'm not sure if she's been powered up to be able to take out a block.

Originally posted by The MISTER
You're trying to be funny but I know you know I'm not implying that he can read minds. However he is well aware of what each member of the four is capable of. And he instantly knows who's planing what from the severity of the spidersense?

Originally posted by The MISTER
In the origin of Spider-man a car set the Spider-sense off and he avoided it without even being aware of why he was dodging. Yeah cars set it off when they're DANGEROUS but why would things that aren't dangerous set it off?Cars are always dangerous. as bombs or grenades are always dangerous.

Originally posted by The MISTER
The Goblins weapons are not typical weapons and the Spider-sense lets him know when he's being watched while he changes. It's extremely sensative and it's explained even more in the cosmic Spidey saga. Because they're attacking all the time? OR are capable of destroying large buildings?

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
and how difficult he will have a time of hitting spiderman, if he's not close, and spiderman would dodge it all day. Oops, you forgot spidey was sitting by the hydrant trying to make it hit torch, Spiderman isn't dodging at this point in time.

Fwoosh, roast spider.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
and how difficult he will have a time of hitting spiderman, if he's not close, and spiderman would dodge it all day.

Thats the point i was trying to bring up. Torch's long range attacts wont be fast enough to hit Spidey, therefore hes gonna have to get alot closer to be somewhat effective.

Spideys a genius, he lure Torch close to a hydrant without Torchy even realizing. All of a sudden WHAM! Spidey kicks the hydrant, releasing a ton of water all over Torch. Im sure we've all seen a hydrant when turned on all the way. Imagine it at full blast. Its very wide spread. Doucing Torch's flame imo. Just a theory i had.

I said nothing of a hydrant, he could use new york to his advantage lightyears better than torch, he's been using the environment more.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I said nothing of a hydrant, he could use new york to his advantage lightyears better than torch, he's been using the environment more.

Sorry. My post was for Creshosk's reply.

Scenarios like this can be too complicated to call because the both teams should be working as teams not going at it 1 on 1.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Sorry. My post was for Creshosk's reply.

I understand, but he used it on me, your example was great!

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I said nothing of a hydrant, he could use new york to his advantage lightyears better than torch, he's been using the environment more. If you're not going to take in all of a conversation string stay out of it, k?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Thats the point i was trying to bring up. Torch's long range attacts wont be fast enough to hit Spidey, therefore hes gonna have to get alot closer to be somewhat effective.

Spideys a genius, he lure Torch close to a hydrant without Torchy even realizing. All of a sudden WHAM! Spidey kicks the hydrant, releasing a ton of water all over Torch. Im sure we've all seen a hydrant when turned on all the way. Imagine it at full blast. Its very wide spread. Doucing Torch's flame imo. Just a theory i had.

Spidey smart, Torch so dumb he not use eyes.

And it's not that great and would still have to be directed at a person not directly overhead. which means sitting by the hydrant and trying to aim it, thus not dodging.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Scenarios like this can be too complicated to call because the both teams should be working as teams not going at it 1 on 1.

Yea, but when both teams have the same amout of members, youre inclined to fight one on one. At least till someone is free to help.

Teamwork would apply more to the F.F vs Juggernaut.

But since everyone has someone to fight, teamwork is kinda useless. Know your opponent and attack.

Team work people... IW holds Spidey in a forcefield Human Torch shoots he scores.

human torch will be out in the first 2 minutes

Originally posted by stormfront13
human torch will be out in the first 2 minutes Provided it's storm taking him out, this is true.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Team work people... IW holds Spidey in a forcefield Human Torch shoots he scores. leaving them both open to an attack by storm. Oops. . .

Originally posted by Creshosk
And it's not that great and would still have to be directed at a person not directly overhead. which means sitting by the hydrant and trying to aim it, thus not dodging.

Spidey wouldnt have to dodge. If Torch is shooting at him, the water automatically puts out any attack.

Thats why Johnny is going to have to get close. But im leaning more towards FF in this fight for the simple fact that Storm's weakness hinders the whole teams chances of winning.

Thats all i wanted to say regarding this fight.

Originally posted by Creshosk
If you're not going to take in all of a conversation string stay out of it, k?



Spidey smart, Torch so dumb he not use eyes.

And it's not that great and would still have to be directed at a person not directly overhead. which means sitting by the hydrant and trying to aim it, thus not dodging.

Easy for you to say, you don't tell me what I say, and stop following onto other threads, you C-hater you.

Originally posted by Creshosk
leaving them both open to an attack by storm. Oops. . .

Must you argue with everyone even when they're on your side...
Anyway it was just one part of a possible scenario.

Thats why Johnny is going to have to get close. But im leaning more towards FF in this fight for the simple fact that Storm's weakness hinders the whole teams chances of winning.


and what excatley is FF going to do to exploit storms weakness? Hmmmmmmmmm..............

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Must you argue with everyone even when they're on your side...
Anyway it was just one part of a possible scenario.

Cresh is a new AC, he just likes to argue anything for the hell of it, its what he does.

if sue traps em all in a force bubble and dunk them in the ocean, can water go in the force field?

It won't matter, storm can work her powers regardless.

Storm and sue are mages, the rest are fighters, best to keep the sorcerors alive.

Well if we go on the FF not holding back I say FF. IW can give three of them neural embolisms with expanding forcefields or cut off their air supplies/displace the air in their lungs. This free's up Reed, Thing and Torch to take on Colossus, who doesn't need an air supply.

Holding back it's too close to call.

if sue traps em all in a force bubble and dunk them in the ocean, can water go in the force field?

^^even if somehow that did happen, storm apply's electrolysis to let them all breath.




Holding back it's too close to call

^^no offense, but no it's not, the x-men have this

Yea it is, but storm has nasty abilities too.

alright, storm can easily take out torch, then proceed to take out sue with minimal difficulty, though it wouldn't be easy. then it's Mr. fantastic who storm could just freeze, and ben we don't have to worry about because colossus has him

So Storm takes out three of the FF singlehandedly...? no offence (and btw Storm's one of my favourite characters) but I think you often overestimate her.

Yea the FF was shown to be neutrilized by spiderman, and thats not fair.

Originally posted by stormfront13
Thats why Johnny is going to have to get close. But im leaning more towards FF in this fight for the simple fact that Storm's weakness hinders the whole teams chances of winning.


and what excatley is FF going to do to exploit storms weakness? Hmmmmmmmmm..............

Storm is claustraphobic. Putting her in a bubble will drive her insane and take her out of the fight.

Unless you can prove otherwise ofcourse.

She might be claustraphobic and even tho im goin for FF what is an INVISIBLE bubble gonna do to scare her? aight why cant Reed take wolvie the same way he took the thing in the movie ( i know its the movie but still) just rap the stupid guy up let thing hit him, while IW takes Spidy and Colossus and keeps them in a bubble ( with no air cuz its real tight) Colossus bangs out of it cuz he doesnt need to breath but Spidy is takin out, Torch can TRY and take storm storm makes him de flame but by then Spidy and wolvie are taking out, thing goes for Colossus, while Reed and IW work together on Storm, Torch re flames and burns the hell out of Colossus and they all take on the Storm...just one senario.....many others are out there....Sue coulds put a bubble in the air passage in the throat of all of them......idk I just think that the FF takes this

Storm hasn't gotten over that yet?!? JESUS!!

LMAO

Originally posted by jrodslam
Storm is claustraphobic. Putting her in a bubble will drive her insane and take her out of the fight.

Unless you can prove otherwise ofcourse.

This is true.

hmm, chances chances. Does sue know this?

Potential scenario:
Sue Storm could knock all except Colossus out by putting a temporary embolism in their carotid arteries blocking the flow of blood to the brain. (if I know this then Reed Richards likely knows this ) This would not kill them if she released her force bubbles after they passed out.

The other three can take out Colossus.

IW stays in character (sort of) and does not kill anyone.

Indeed, IW has gotten a HUGE power boost.

Spiderman uses his insect calling to get to IW, because we know she hates bugs.

Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Indeed, IW has gotten a HUGE power boost.

Spiderman uses his insect calling to get to IW, because we know she hates bugs.

It's probably true to. The bugs make her lose focus and the X-Men and Spidey are freed.

Torch is being totally discounted. Couldn't he melt Colossus into a sentient puddle of molten steel?

No its not that, but his best attacks are obsolete. If he gets near he is not as effective, storm negates him, spidey would do fine, colossus could take a weak attack, and wolverine could only take damage.

I still say 50/50.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Torch is being totally discounted. Couldn't he melt Colossus into a sentient puddle of molten steel?
Whether he does it depends on how much generating 12,000 degrees F of heat would affect the environment and people around him. And whether Storm would or could snuff out such an intense heat.

He won't get his better attacks due to the condition around him and the match.