Hercules vs. Wonder Woman

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x_danny_x
DC said that Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules. I believe this applies to marvels Hercules as well!!

Scoobless
i don't

K3VIL
In AVENGERS VS JLA Hercules give up a good fight but was finally hold down by WW, anyway i think the fight was crap as that of Superman and Thor.Hercules has approximately equal experience ans his strenght is equal to that of Thor without the hammer so he would be a greater match than that Busiek and Perez show in the crossover.

IRTMU-Dragon
You gotta stop with all these pointless VS threads Danny.

ScarletSpider
In DC, WW is stronger than Hercules. But our Marvel Hercules would pwn her. The only reason he didn't win in the crossover is because Busiek pays attention to continuity, and Herc wasn't at full power, or he had a nasty stomach flu. Your choice.

juggernaut74
There is always an excuse. What was Thors excuse? He must not have seen the punch coming.

x_danny_x
umm NO! if my threads bother you so much than dont post in it or avoid them. I aint forcing you to view them.

anyhow im not going to get into a fight with you cause I do that for a living lol.

Paula mention that we cant talk about DBZ characters cause we dont play nice, so I am not going there.

hobbitx
Yeah how come WW defeated Herc in the Crossover. That was so not fair. Go Herc kill that Underwear Woman

Draco69
Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules. Not to mention she has speed of sound superspeed. Hercules goes down.

vaya_the_elf
Wonderwoman would win.

Zahit
Hercules wouldn't beat Wonder Woman by hitting her......he would hit ON her....dev

vaya_the_elf
If she was interested. She's very picky

Draco69
Hercules raped and enslaved Wonder Woman's mother. I doubt hitting on her would have any effect.

FrothByte
maybe its because almost everyone knows superman and not so many people know thor. if i remember correctly the crossover was fanbased right?


oh, and herc should win over ww.

juggernaut74
I dont know if thats true. Surfer beat GL and I think GL is way more popular than Surfer. I think that was the excuse for fanboys whos favorite character lost.

Draco69
Wonder Woman would win. Superspeed, class 90 strength, flight, and silver gauntlets that can deflect any blow that comes her way. Not to mention she has an unbreakable lasso that could restrain him. (If Darkseid, Superman and Doomsday can't break it then Hercules certainly can't) Hercules loses.

FrothByte
i don't know, in my knowledge surfer is more popular than gl. gl has been around longer, but dc never promoted him as much as marvel promoted ss. my opinions only though.

lifeisaglich
WW should never have won the fight because Herc. tangos with gods even though he is only half human. And if you guys want to go by power Herc. is stronger. The only thing is Herc. is one of those marvel people who's power would be off the charts and the next they can not pick up a small stone.

And besides didn't Herc. lift Manhattan clear off the ocean?

Draco69
See previous arguments. WW wins hands down.

lifeisaglich
big grin

Draco69
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Spawn of Satan
it would be a good fight until thor and superman interupt and ruin it

Tron
There are no interruptions in this forum, so it would be a fight to the finish.

Spawn of Satan
how would you know its a wat if

grey fox
wonder woman im not a big fan of dcd but it's obvious diana is pissed over the loss of her mother to herc so he gets beaten like a red headed stepchild

( i am not trying to be offensive to any rede head, stepchildren or peopel geting beaten)

Tron
Because it would be a pointless thread if they had to worry about interruptions, as would all these threads. These threads are based on who would win in a straight fight, with no interruptions.

manjaro
umm i hate to go off on one of those tangents but i dont remember diana being STRONGER than hercules. however, what i do know is that she has some of captain marvel's hyperbole..... you know,

Strength of Demeter

Loving heart of Aphrodite

Wisdom of Athena

hunting and unity w/beasts of Artemis

speed and flight of hermes

fire of sisterhood of Hestia

these gods names dont spell diana or anything but you get the picture. also, in DC hercules from the get go is no longer mortal. he was only a demi-god at the time of the rape and enslavemnt of her mother and her ppl. ever since then he's been heracles(sometimes spelled herakles)the god of strentgh. so i highly doubt that she would be stronger than a god who represents strength. this is a case where dc follows the ancient greek mythology. in marvel they just came up with thier own concept for hercules.

lifeisaglich
What is the difference between the Hercules Diana fought, the Hercules in Avengers, and Heracles.

K3VIL
Draco WW in Marvel's terms of Strenght is class 100, she has 60/70% of Superman's strenght.Hercules is equal to Thor and his strenght is half of his original strenght.
Anyway the principal fights, those that were what we were waiting from a long time were crap.I see Superman knocking down a Thor that fought like the last of the idiots, don't protecting himself with Mjolnir, i see a Superman victory forced cause D.C. wouldn't let him lose to the Asgardian Thunder God.WW victory?They just show her hitting Hercules 2 times, when she engange him after she let Aquaman fall on She-Hulk, when Hercules hit her counterattacking and then she was beating HERCULES into submission, i mean HERCULES.There's no one in marvel universe with more experience in submission and wrestling fight than Hercules.And she was beating the living crap out of him.It's crap.I don't call it a match, i call it a let WW owning Hercules.
Back to Thor VS Superman, did they forget the GodForce Blast?If just Mjolnir charged by magical lightnings was hurting so much Superman, one hit from the GFB and then Thor would just need to smash Superman's face shattering him into the ground.NO.They let Thor being hitted by a hook punch throwed away and fall unconscious, cause he get the heat vision in his chest and run through it, when Thor almost always absorb or deflect ranged attacks with Mjolnir.

Draco69
WW wins. Superspeed, vast strength, yadda yadda.

muffin man
HERCULES no doubt

Euripides
WW.

vaya_the_elf
Wonderwoman would win

dark1365
WW would kick his balls into....I can't find a word big enough.
Thought I'd find you here, vaya.

vaya_the_elf
Me here? Never *has a grin on her face*

x_danny_x
i was comparing Hercules from Marvel with Wonder Woman, not any other one, especially the one from DC cause he is a god

Dark Thor
Who will win?

Darth_Erebus
See my response in the WW vs Thor thread. Same scenario here.

olympian
Hercules.

yahman
Speed = Wonder Woman
Durability = Herc
Strength = Wonder Woman
Fighting Skills = Wonder Woman
Stamina = Herc
Extra Abilities = Wonde Woman
Weapons = Wonder Woman
Change of Tatics = Wonder Woman
Better Looking = Wonder Woman
Better Boobs = Close 1 but probably Wonder Woman

Overall = Wonder Woman

Dark Thor
wats the difference between stamina and durability

olympian
And where did she showed to be stronger than herc?

Figthing skills its the same to both. Shes more adept to martial arts and Herc is more at wrestling and boxing.

Better looks? Wouldnt a woman like Herc more unless shes a lesbian wink

Weapons= they both have. One is blunt the other is more defensive.

Dark Thor
I think Hercules is stronger since hes half god.

olympian
Hes not stronger by a large amount. But he is regardless.

Dark Thor
what extra abilities does WW contain?

jrodslam
Originally posted by Dark Thor
wats the difference between stamina and durability

Stamina is the ability to fight longer without tireing. Like endurance.

Durability is the ability to take more punishment without being fazed as much.

Hope that helps. big grin

yahman
'And where did she showed to be stronger than Herc?'

Dude were all for continuity and validity. So This is my case.

1 third of the moon beats Manhattan

2. 1 third of the earth beats Manhattan

3. Lifting a Chariot the Size of San Fransisco = at least as impressive as dragging Manhattan

jrodslam
Wonder woman lifted 1/3 of the moon and earth?

Dark Thor
yahman, ur confusing

olympian
She didnt lifted 1/3 of the moon.

Nor the Earth.

She had help from Superman and other heroes in those two and they - failed- to accomplish it.

olympian
And btw, they tried to move both. not lift it.

olympian
The moon feat isent all that impressive. there was Black Adam there. And Green Lantern, Superman, Captain marvel, Mary and Freedy. Power girl, and Martin manhaunter.

yahman
What the hell ??????????
'yahma


'Wonder woman lifted 1/3 of the moon and earth?n, ur confusing'

No her Superman and G. L dragged it. I have both the comics. Any one who says they were unsuccessful or that she didn't do her fair share is bull shitting. It makes no reference to it in the comic.

jrodslam
Even if it was lifted, she doesnt lift equally to Superman. So if it were 3 heroes, Superman would be lifting the most i assume, along with GL. Thus she would actually be lifting less than 1/3. Thats just my take on that particular feat.

Hell, GL has moved the moon all on his own. Im sure everyone wasnt moving or lifting at equal strength.

olympian
If you have the Earth feat youll see the reference saying they cant move it at some point. She had help.

The moon she also had help from guys who are Superman equals plus a Green Lantern.

yahman
'And the moon feat isent all that impressive. there was Black Adam there. And Green Lantern, Superman, Captain marvel, Mary and Freedy. Power girl, and Martin manhaunter.'

Dude i dont know what you are talking about cos i have this comicc downstairs calle Incognito. And it clearly shows Superman, Kyle and Wonder Woman moving the moon into earths orbit !!!!!!!!!!

olympian
Is that the one where they had magical help and Flash lending the speed ? Or is that another.

Frankly it still makes her fall short, she had help in all of those.

snoopdogg
......

olympian
Marvel vs Dc as proof now? big grin

leonidas
<<She had help from Superman and other heroes in those two and they - failed- to accomplish it.>.

actually, gl, supes and wonderwoman DID push the moon. but that's doesn't mean anything. maybe supes and gl pushed MORE than a third, who knows. silly point, really.

in dc, ww is stronger than hercules. of course, then you get into the debate is dc's herc the same as marvel herc? ideally they would be, but they're probably not. marvel's is portrayed as stronger. supes is said to be the only person stronger than ww, though.

i'm happy calling the strengths even with perhaps a tiny edge going one way of the other. herc's mace is nothing to the lasso and bracelets though. speed is also on w's side. durability is even in my book.

i'd guess 6/10 ww, just because of the lasso and just because ww can get down right nasty at times. if herc's tied up, he's screwed.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by olympian
Marvel vs Dc as proof now? big grin Actually its not from the Mavel vs DC series. And no its not proof I just think its funny. laughing

leonidas
snoop, where IS that scan from? and how did it end?

yahman
'Even if it was lifted, she doesnt lift equally to Superman. So if it were 3 heroes, Superman would be lifting the most i assume, along with GL. Thus she would actually be lifting less than 1/3. Thats just my take on that particular feat.

Hell, GL has moved the moon all on his own. Im sure everyone wasnt moving or lifting at equal strength.'

If he could move it on his own he Would have moved it on his own.

"Even if it was lifted, she doesnt lift equally to Superman. So if it were 3 heroes, Superman would be lifting the most i assume, along with GL. Thus she would actually be lifting less than 1/3. Thats just my take on that particular feat."

Good for you, it doesnt matter what you think. I think that the Herc Feat doesn't count but i got slated for two days about that. There is no reference in the comic about how the weight was divided so anyone's oppinion is irrelevent. Even if she was lifting one sixth of the moon it is far more impressive than dragging Mathattan.

In the case of the Earth it looks like they are dragging it because smoke starts appearing ebhind the earth. Why would the artist draw this unless the earth was moving.

I have the pic. If some one tells me hoe to post it i will show you.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by leonidas
snoop, where IS that scan from? and how did it end? Its from the All Access series.

That pretty much was the end of the fight.

olympian
"actually, gl, supes and wonderwoman DID push the moon. but that's doesn't mean anything. maybe supes and gl pushed MORE than a third, who knows. silly point, really."

I know they did it. It was the earth they failed to succced. When you have someone like a Green latern there and Superman plus one it doesnt show how strong she is.

"in dc, ww is stronger than hercules."

Even at Dc they are at most equals. Pre Crisis she has one win and he has two by manhandling her and at least one was a Ko that i know of.

Both fough evenly Pre Crisis Superman before.

Post Crisis they never fought. He has - on his own - better feats than her. They both fought a Doomsday clone more powerful than the Death of Superman one and he did as good as her without any weapons or flight.

Dc Herc and her are most likely equas and Marvel one its stronger.

yahman
'actually, gl, supes and wonderwoman DID push the moon. but that's doesn't mean anything. maybe supes and gl pushed MORE than a third, who knows. silly point, really.'

W.T.F !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahah this is jsut getting funny now.

When i am trying to prove that Wonder Woman is stronger than Herc why is this a silly point ???????????

leonidas
<<Dc Herc and her are most likely equals, altho he has the better rep so far. Marvel one its stronger.>>

ww was created to be stronger than herc. i'm not gonna argue. i was once on your side of the fence, and it was proven to me that ww IS stronger than dc herc. as i said, only supes is believed to surpass her in strength.

olympian
Because she has yet to show it. The difference its not much but there is one. And he showed to be stronger on its own more often.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by leonidas
. as i said, only supes is believed to surpass her in strength. I think Captain Marvel is in there also.

olympian
"ww was created to be stronger than herc. i'm not gonna argue. i was once on your side of the fence, and it was proven to me that ww IS stronger than dc herc. as i said, only supes is believed to surpass her in strength."

She can be created by whatever they want. Let her show it. Stronger its dubius. Of course she is also said to be only second in strenght to Supes and when do they show that?

leonidas
why is it a silly point? well, because maybe supes was puching MOST of it?? maybe gl took more than his share?? didn't see it written anywhere that the weight was divided evenly. that's an assumption on your part and not necessarily a correct one. in fact, it stands to reason it is wrong. supes is stronger, so logically he'd be pushing more than his share. gl could conceiveably be stronger in that situation and is probably pushing more than his share as well.

that aside, it is still an impressive feat, but your point that she pushed a third is not a good one. and dude, you've been on the forum A LOT. relax . . . .

leonidas
<<She can be created by whatever they want. Let her show it. Stronger its dubius. Of course she is also said to be only second in strenght to Supes and when do they show that?>>

if draco makes an appearance, he will show you the way . . .

yahman
"I know they did it. It was the earth they failed to succced. When you have someone like a Green latern there and Superman plus one it doesnt show how strong she is."

hahahahaha LoL what a JOKE.

Oh my God. People like you are convinced that Juggs is stronger than Ultimate colossus with no real convincing proof.

Then i give you something like Wonder Woman Dragging the moon (acccording to you it happened twice) and Lifting A Charriot the Size of San Fransico and moving the earth. And you just dismiss it with no evidence apart fro your own perspective. What a Joke

LOL hahahahahahahah

Why do displays of strength mean nothing in this forum ?????????

olympian
"I think Captain Marvel is in there also."

This is what im talking about. WW is "said" to be stronger, but they never show it. In the other way around Cap Marvel doesnt even show up in the WW, Supes equation and yet he has Ko Supes how many times now since Pre Crisis?

Cosmic Cube
Didn't Hercules rape Hippolyta? Wonder Woman has got a lot to fight for.

Cosmic Cube
CM KOed Supes with one magic soaked punch, once.

yahman
"that aside, it is still an impressive feat, but your point that she pushed a third is not a good one. and dude, you've been on the forum A LOT. relax . . . ."

Dude i could Kiss u.

Yeh exactly!!!!!!!!!! It doesn't matter if its is one third or a thenth of the moon. Even one hundreth of the moon it is far superior to Herc 's greatest feat.

cool cool

"and dude, you've been on the forum A LOT. relax . . . ."

I cant im too drunk!!!!!!!!
Sorry though

You got caught in the cross fire.
Death to the Thanos and Juggernaught Fanboys

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by yahman
"I know they did it. It was the earth they failed to succced. When you have someone like a Green latern there and Superman plus one it doesnt show how strong she is."

hahahahaha LoL what a JOKE.

Oh my God. People like you are convinced that Juggs is stronger than Ultimate colossus with no real convincing proof.

Then i give you something like Wonder Woman Dragging the moon (acccording to you it happened twice) and Lifting A Charriot the Size of San Fransico and moving the earth. And you just dismiss it with no evidence apart fro your own perspective. What a Joke

LOL hahahahahahahah

Why do displays of strength mean nothing in this forum ?????????

I often ask the same question...

olympian
"hahahahaha LoL what a JOKE.

Oh my God. People like you are convinced that Juggs is stronger than Ultimate colossus with no real convincing proof. "

Wasent you who said Classic Jugs was ONLY mid level? You shouldnt be laugthing. And no Colossus ultimate or not doesnt belong to the top. where did you got this idea? Everyone at ultimate universe wth the exception of captain America is weaker.

"Then i give you something like Wonder Woman Dragging the moon (acccording to you it happened twice) and Lifting A Charriot the Size of San Fransico and moving the earth. And you just dismiss it with no evidence apart fro your own perspective. What a Joke "

They didnt managed to move the Earth after the initial pull at least . Read the comic, the text. They failed. The Moon they did. With all those pll that wer there including Black adam, Superman and others plus a Green Lantern if they didnt managed i would be calling - them - mid level.

What amazing feat does she have - on her own - that surpasses everything that Herc ever lifted.

olympian
"Didn't Hercules rape Hippolyta? Wonder Woman has got a lot to fight for"

At Dc they did. They invented that.

"CM KOed Supes with one magic soaked punch, once"

Post Crisis he Ko supes more than once. And one of them wasent magical.

Pre Crisis? He even beat Superman in a straight fight without ligthing and all the tricks.

Cosmic Cube
Err... Juggy is way stronger than Ultimate Colossus.

snoopdogg
Originally posted by olympian


Post Crisis he Ko supes more than once. And one of them wasent magical.

Im gonna need a issue # on that one.

olympian
Virtue and Vice. Supes was out for quite along.

yahman
"They failed. The Moon they did."

How did they fail the Moon?
I cant remember the Moon asking for anything ???????
I might be wrong but i cant remember the moon asking for anything. I might be wrong, but thre you go.

Dude trust me whta ever proportion of the moon she dragged it is far more impressive than the manhattnan thing. Lifting a charriot the size of San Fransico is also more impressive . smokin' smokin'

snoopdogg
Originally posted by olympian
Virtue and Vice. ?????????????

olympian
Yahman read. what. i. say. :

They failed to move the Earth.

"Lifting a charriot the size of San Fransico is also more impressive"

Dragging Manhattan isent Hercs top feat. and did she made it to lift all or she end up asking help to Martin Manhaunter hmm.

yahman
"Wasent you who said Classic Jugs was ONLY mid level? You shouldnt be laugthing. And no Colossus ultimate or not doesnt belong to the top. where did you got this idea? Everyone at ultimate universe wth the exception of captain America is weaker. "

Please dont get me started on this CRAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

olympian
Virtue and Vice is the name.

Jla/Jsa Virtue and Vice- the one where they end up fighting Sorrow and Despero.

olympian
"Please dont get me started on this CRAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11"

Count to ten. And then try to figure out why practically no one says Colossus is above classic Jugs. You see theres a good reason.

yahman
"Dragging Manhattan isent Hercs top feat"

If you say it is when he lifted the earth i will lose all respect for you. He never did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

olympian
True. He "only" lifted the heavens. Wich was a cosmic being with the name Uranos.

"only".

snoopdogg
Originally posted by olympian
Virtue and Vice is the name.

Jla/Jsa Virtue and Vice- the one where they end up fighting Sorrow and Despero. Well I agree with you saying that WW dont have the strength feats to prove she is Supermans level like Captain Marvel has done in the past.

Superman said it in his own words that CM is his equal. He has never said that about WW.

But on the flip side I think that WW is stronger than Hercules.

yahman
"Count to ten. And then try to figure out why practically no one says Colossus is above classic Jugs. You see theres a good reason."

No that is not my point. Your post suggests that the Ultimate characters are weaker than there 616 counter parts???????????

Yes i will admit that maybe Thor is but none of the others are.

yahman
"True. He "only" lifted the heavens. Wich was a cosmic being with the name Uranos.

"only"."

What the Frikin hell are the heavens from a marvel perspective. Are they the realm of death? The Realm of Hella, The Pits of tartarus The Sky or the TOAA's actual heaven.

What ever answer you give me is up to your perspective. And what ever version he lifted, it is a verry Dubious Feat.

olympian
"No that is not my point. Your post suggests that the Ultimate characters are weaker than there 616 counter parts??????????? "

They are. Only Cap is written as stronger.

"What ever answer you give me is up to your perspective. And what ever version he lifted, it is a verry Dubious Feat"

So if i dont belive in Gods heaven isent a heavens chariot dubius as well? My perspective is the same as the myth. Uranos was the sky and gaia was the earth. And he lifted it like Atlas did.

Keep in mind while not the canon version, the lifting the earth thing its also his and a greek myth.

olympian
"Why do displays of strength mean nothing in this forum ?????????"

And who is not counting them? This is a Hercules/Diana thread not Diana and some heroes thread vs Hercules. I want things she lifted on her own that makes me say his heaven feat its surpassed. And so far i havent seen it. Did she or did she not had help with the heavens chariot?

And the moon?

And the earth?

lifeisaglich
Diana has beaten Hercules from Marvel...which lead me to believe her to be being stronger....Is it in DC where Hercules is now a full fledge god..god of strength?

olympian
"Diana has beaten Hercules from Marvel"

Where? she didnt in Jla/Avengers.

"Is it in DC where Hercules is now a full fledge god..god of strength?"

Yeah at DC he was always a God of strengh when he met heroes like WW and Superman.

yahman
""No that is not my point. Your post suggests that the Ultimate characters are weaker than there 616 counter parts??????????? "

They are. Only Cap is written as stronger.

Ok ill change what i said earlier, But Ultimate Colossus and Ultimate Thing are far stronger than their 616 counter parts. Do not believe the Wizard chart. Both have performed feats in the Ultimate comics to suggest they are much stronger than the chart. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"What ever answer you give me is up to your perspective. And what ever version he lifted, it is a verry Dubious Feat"

She did lift the charriot for some time before she needed help from the martian manhunter. Dude i said the feat is dubious because you cannot put a weight on the heavens. One could make a good estimation as to how much that charriot weighed or how much the percentage of the moon she pulled weighed.

olympian
"Ok ill change what i said earlier, But Ultimate Colossus and Ultimate Thing are far stronger than their 616 counter parts"

No they arent. The reason ultimate Colossus looks so impressive its because in this universe, there arent many top tier heroes like the regular one. On his universe its him, Thing, Thor and Hulk. So of course hes one of the strongest of that world.

"She did lift the charriot for some time before she needed help from the martian manhunter"

Thats what i remembered about it. Her feats are good but she ends up needing help.

"Dude i said the feat is dubious because you cannot put a weight on the heavens"

And it doesnt have an estimated weight. Neither in the myths. This is one of those unlimited_impossible feats that myth characters used to do. And the Herc one its one of the most famous. But there are others in all mythologies. regardless of that fact, its still a feat he did, you have to count it.

Diana -does- have a feat like that tho. She and Supes once tried to lift the Spectre who has no estimated weight. Kinda like the Uranos/heavens. Difference is they couldnt and Herc did.

"One could make a good estimation as to how much that charriot weighed or how much the percentage of the moon she pulled weighed."

With that i agree. How much did the chariot weighted? Did they showed it?

olympian
And to Top it, another feat of Heracles this time at DC.

http://www.comicboards.com/comicbattles/view.php?trd=050320160249&q=Hercules

yahman
'No they arent. The reason ultimate Colossus looks so impressive its because in this universe, there arent many top tier heroes like the regular one. On his universe its him, Thing, Thor and Hulk. So of course hes one of the strongest of that world.

Do you read the ultimates?

olympian
Yes. And those four are the strongest in the ultimate marvel.

yahman
Do you read ultimate X men. Have you read the Tomorrow people, return to weapon X and the World Tour.

have you read FF4 volume 1 ????????????????

olympian
Yes i have some in trade.

What exactly did any of those did that makes you think theyr far above the regular versions? Just curious.

yahman
What exactly did any of those did that makes you think theyr far above the regular versions? Just curious.

IN the regular 616 colossus is seen as a low level class 100 character. At the most he could probably lift several Kilo tons. If you think he can lift more please show me an example. His greatest feat of strength was stopping that plane in the secret wars. The current Juggernuaght is supposedly on the same level as he is.

In the ultimate universe colossus lifted a nuclear submarine (weighing in excess of 40 kilo tons ) off the bottom of the ocean bed, and brought it to the shore.
In the return to weapon X colossus stopped an on coming train which is likely to weigh between 1 and 5 kilo tons and was probably travelling close to 150 km an hour. As he stopped the train straight in its tracks he would have needed to project a force greater than 40,000 kilo newtons.

In the tomorrow people colossus was able overpower the force of a ultimate sentinel (They look bigger than their 616 counter parts), definately with class 100 strength and throw it about 20 feet into the air. Recently Gambit used his powers to de attach a HUGE ferris wheel from its girders. Colossus was able to stop the wheel while it was in motion with little trouble at all.

Thing in the 616 universe is now apparently a low class 100. It is debatable as wether or not he is even this strong, as most sources, including the official Marvel site state that he is level 6 and can lift about 85 tons.

In FF4 issue 4 Thing was able to KO a monster that was about 20 - 30 storeys high. He was also described by Reed as having the strength to collapse the Baxter building. He also was able to collapse a huge stone pillar while fighting the Mole mans minnions. He recently hit a T Rex in the face and sent him flying about a mile through dense jungle.

olympian
"In the ultimate universe colossus lifted a nuclear submarine (weighing in excess of 40 kilo tons )"

Regular universe Colossus can also do that. Most guys at around class 80 and up can with little trouble. Now if you tell me he has more feats in ultimate universe. Then yes. Hes more a front star there. More durable feats also. But stronger? no.

"Thing in the 616 universe is now apparently a low class 100. It is debatable as wether or not he is even this strong, as most sources, including the official Marvel site state that he is level 6 and can lift about 85 tons."

Marvel official stats rarely match what the character do in comics. Ben is indeed a low class 100 by now.

yahman
"Regular universe Colossus can also do that. Most guys at around class 80 and up can with little trouble. "

When has he shown he can do that ????????????
confused

'Marvel official stats rarely match what the character do in comics. Ben is indeed a low class 100 by now.'

Yet he has never matched the feats i have just mentioned .

Please back up your statements !!!!!!! sad

olympian
"When has he shown he can do that ???????????? "

When you have the strengh to go toe against Gladiator for moments, or Juggernaut you have the strengh to lift that. Both thing and Colossus work more at regular marvel by combat showings. They dont lift around like Herc or hulk do. Im pretty sure tho that both have feats, its a matter of looking.

"Yet he has never matched the feats i have just mentioned ."

How about the weight training tech he has that she Hulk surpassed with one hand recently. Or using buldings and parts of it against Herc and Hulk.

"He was also described by Reed as having the strength to collapse the Baxter building"

See if you can get any fights of him against Hulk or Herc. He uses buldings and parts of it. Under Byrne in an issue of fantastic Four he supports a whole weight of a bridge and stops from making it colapssed. He knocked galactus down after Dr Strange made him see ghosts of the past. Also under Byrne he punches terrax from one building to another. ( same storyarc that led him Ko Galactus ).

yahman
"When you have the strengh to go toe against Gladiator for moments, or Juggernaut you have the strengh to lift that. Both thing and Colossus work more at regular marvel by combat showings.2

I pretty certain that Ultimate Thing and Ultimate Colossus would do far better than their 616 counterparts in these fights,

"Also under Byrne he punches terrax from one building to another."

Im sure they can do this aswell.

Also both 616 Thing and Colossus did little to no damage agianst Glads and Juggs.

"Or using buldings and parts of it against Herc and Hulk"

The parts used are impressive, but they are still no were near heavy enough. Thing and Colosus rarely ever picks up anything weighing more than a say 50 tons. Nothing they have used as a weapon is over a Kilo ton.

"Under Byrne in an issue of fantastic Four he supports a whole weight of a bridge and stops from making it colapssed"

This is impressive but i have a copy where Thundra says to Thing that he is not capable of stopping a speeding train. The train in the story is no where near the size of the train Colossus stopped and it is probably not traveling at the same speed.

616 Colossus has never been able to over power Magneto like he did in Return of the King.

olympian
What we have here then its inconsistency. I dont mind much what Thundra says. Ben was show - on panel - Putting Galactus down twice, lifting parts of building in fights, figthing a pissed Hulk and Gladiator and he did held that whole bridge by itself. Im like this i rather take whats show in comics wink

About Magneto its either a) Ultimate Colossus durability being higher. Or b) Ultimate Magneto being weaker.

Even it is the first its fine by me. He sure has more durability feats in the ultimate universe.

yahman
held that whole bridge by itself. Im like this i rather take whats show in comics

Here Here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big grin

Umm i think i will start a Ult Collosus and Thing vs 616 counterparts, tomoz wink

May the best universe winnn stick out tongue stick out tongue big grin

olympian
Good luck with that wink

blackwarrior
There can be only ONE.
She's way faster, far stronger and a varstly superior fighter.
When the dust settles the attached image says it all.

olympian
"There can be only ONE.
She's way faster, far stronger and a varstly superior fighter.
When the dust settles the attached image says it all."

I rather use others.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/4773/picture10624sx.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8297/wwher2jq.gif

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1266/259pic27dh.gif

Darth Sparhawk
Hercules will beat the silly girl.

jrodslam
Olympian i thought Supes and wonder Woman DID lift Spectre.

olympian
They failed, thats why Kayle (somehow i know im typing his name wrong) shows up right after and does the deed.

Same thing with moving Earth.

"Hercules will beat the silly girl."

Nah shes not silly. Its always a great fight in my pov.

jrodslam
Actually they did lift him. But then dropped him. So technically, they did pick him up.

But i see your point nonetheless. big grin

olympian
"Actually they did lift him. But then dropped him. So technically, they did pick him up."

That would be " tried to lift him but dropped him because they couldnt "

Its a great feat anyway wink

jrodslam
Originally posted by olympian
"Actually they did lift him. But then dropped him. So technically, they did pick him up."

That would be " tried to lift him but dropped him because they couldnt "

Its a great feat anyway wink

lol. If they dropped him, wouldnt that mean that they succeded in lifting him? Maybe not lift to their desired place, but lifted nonetheless.

If i try to press a heavy weight over my head, but can only get it to my shoulders, would you say that i cant lift it? No. Just that i cant lift it over my head. I guess.

The feat Isnt that great imo. Kyle makes them look useless lol.

Draco69
Due to Olympian's schooling, the strength department is rather dubious.

However Wonder Woman still wins. Hercules only has his strength and fighting ability.

Wondie has flight, speed, yadda yadda.

leonidas
seeing what ww survived in her recent fight against supes, i'd have to say ww as well, for a variety of reasons.

olympian
Here is the page in question:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9742/jlaspectresoulwar5wb.jpg

They budged him but couldnt bear the weight and had to drop him.

Lifting even for some time would be what was required from them.

Actual lift him was what Kyle (now i got it right) did. The whole weight.


"However Wonder Woman still wins. Hercules only has his strength and fighting ability.

Wondie has flight, speed, yadda yadda."

She has more advantages yes. Herc has more in the physical department. Its not an easy fight on both sides. If this is all powers avaiable she wins a majority. If she gets close he wins a majority also.

Draco69
Looks like they managed to lift him enough time to Kyle to tunnel his way through wherever they had to go.

jrodslam
They had him off the groud. Thats considered lifting. Could they bear the weight? No. Thus dropping him. Still a lift though.

Kyle completed the feat.

Draco69
Very impressive to me. Lifting all Eternity...

BobbyD
I'd say WW, though by no means is this a guaranteed thing.

She wins 6-7/10 because of her versatility.

olympian
They did managed to do something, thus why the trying. They budged him. But the feat belongs to Kyle. He had the whole weight and lift it.

In my pov,"complete the feat" would be if they did what they did -and- held the weight for a time enough to Kyle come along and grab it.

He did it by himself. From scratch. Or from the ground using another word.

Fails me how pll call him the weakest Green Lantern sometimes. That and the earth feat are mad ones.

olympian
"She wins 6-7/10 because of her versatility"

I agree with that. Versability does count and Herk in comics its one dimensional compared with her.

Close quarters its another matter. Not easy the same way.

jrodslam
Originally posted by olympian
Fails me how pll call him the weakest Green Lantern sometimes. That and the earth feat are mad ones.

Id say hes 3rd weakest tied with John. Although im guilty of saying he was secnod weakest after Kilowog.

olympian
You consider Guy "stronger"? I like Guy more, and i see him as a better fighter with the ring overall.

But these kind of feats its something i dont remember them having. What about John?

Draco69
I consider Kyle second to Hal. Than Kilowag. Then it's a tossup between John and Guy.

olympian
I would agree with that. Featwise that is. Combat wise i would put Kilowog as number one.

jrodslam
The reason I consider Hal and Guy above John Kyle and Kilowog in strength is because Hal and Guy have the most confidence and willpower. The more of those you have, the stronger you are. Not to be confused with better.

Willpower - Hal > Guy > Kyle > Kilowog > John. imo
Confidence - Guy > Hal > Kyle > John > Kilowog.

Kilowog and John can be interchangeable.

Being smarter or a better fighter is another story. Im was talking about strength.

leonidas
<<Fails me how pll call him the weakest Green Lantern sometimes. That and the earth feat are mad ones.>>

i agree. kyle is a tough mofo. i'd say second to hal. has any other gl contained a supernova?

olympian
Not that i recall.

jrodslam
John and Hal shielded against it.

leonidas
<<John and Hal shielded against it.>>

that's a LOT different than containing one. that was an enormously impressive feat and kyle deserves uber props for that feat alone.

jrodslam
Originally posted by leonidas
that's a LOT different than containing one. that was an enormously impressive feat and kyle deserves uber props for that feat alone.

True, but maybe Hal nor John thought of containing it. Not like they tried and failed. Kyle gets my props for that one nonetheless.

And he was the only one to fight off Parallax during Rebirth. While Guy John and Kilowog got possesed. Possibly even Alan. Much respect again to Kyle for that one.

leonidas
^ big grin thumb up

jplatinum
Depends on the version of each.
They both were insanely invulnerable and powerful at one point.

blackwarrior
This is even better.

olympian
Ah Mortal Hercules.

This one that was stronger but not immortal levels yet, also looks good.

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5078/jlaavengers2herkoverpowersww9t.jpg

Ultimate Ion
That Kyle love fest really came out of nowhere. laughing

Wonder Woman 6/10

Draco69
Originally posted by olympian
Ah Mortal Hercules.

This one that was stronger but not immortal levels yet, also looks good.

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5078/jlaavengers2herkoverpowersww9t.jpg

Eh. Hercules had her in pin while Wasp and Yellowjacket were helping her.

Wonder Woman owned his ass on her own. When she had him on the ground she only used ONE arm and the other to ward off the Asgardians. She didn't look the slightest bit strained.

olympian
She did used both arms. What she was doing was a chock hold. See the panel again and watch her both hands close to perform the move. You might have to look closer.

Both had the advantage in theyr rounds. She was already in a full nelson when we see Wasp and Giant man blasting her.

HigH ScholaR
wink

olympian
I really like that drawing. Its the best of both figthing.

Doesnt it seems like there is some....tension everytime they fight stick out tongue

Or thats me and my tricky mind.

hummm.

Draco69
Originally posted by olympian
She did used both arms. What she was doing was a chock hold. See the panel again and watch her both hands close to perform the move. You might have to look closer.

Both had the advantage in theyr rounds. She was already in a full nelson when we see Wasp and Giant man blasting her.

Just reread it. However while Diana had Hercules in a choke hold. She didn't look the least bit strained. She wasn't even concerned with Hercules struggling beneath him. She was busy talking down the Asgardians.

Hercules when he had Diana in a pin had to sneak up on Diana and get her in a pin. Not to mention he had Wasp and Yellowjacket to help. And she obviously got free since in the same picture Hercules decided to gang up on Superman.

Also here's a tricky question:

In recent events it has been shown that She-Hulk is stronger than Hercules. Yet you seem to insinuate that Hercules is stronger than Wonder Woman and even Superman. Does that mean that She-Hulk, through a bizarre twist of fate suddenly went from a second-stringer powerhouse to the top of strength hierachy?

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