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I was just wondering which apostle had more influence.

Paul......

Paul was a good one, but john had revelations revealed to him by Jesus. Paul didn't have prophecy like him.

john, peter and James were Jesus three closest friends.

Originally posted by cking
Paul was a good one, but john had revelations revealed to him by Jesus. Paul didn't have prophecy like him. Paul wrote most of the new testament.

Lucifer

Peter

I think Paul is supposed to have written at least half of it but I don't think we know who wrote it.

Paul did write most of it and so did peter and john. peter and Paul both died in Rome. peter said he would rather be crucified upside down because he isn't worthy enough to die like Jesus did. peter was a good, but he had problems and Paul had to correct him because he was being a hypocrite.

so all tree of them wrote most of it???

mark,Luke, and john wrote the four gospels. James, peter, Paul, Titus, timothy,Jude, are the ones who wrote the rest. Luke wrote the book of acts.

The council of Nicea had more influence on the church than any of the apostles.

not in a missionary way.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The council of Nicea had more influence on the church than any of the apostles. The council just decided which books to keep and how to interpret them. Arius was declared a heretuc because he had a different interpretation and most of the gnostic gospels were destroyed.

Paul.
If I remember correctly don't the Catholics refer to him as the first Pope?

Originally posted by Echuu
Paul.
If I remember correctly don't the Catholics refer to him as the first Pope?

Actually, I think Peter was the first pope.

that is what the catholics, believe other denominations don't believe so and the bible never said he was the first pope. All he was just an apostle, nothing else.

actually the council did decide what books should be left out the bible. the ones were the book of Adam and eve, the book of Enoch, and the book of jubilee. these books give more background than Genesis.

I think historicaly,Paul had the most influence.Origen of the World,IMO,was the best origen story.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Actually, I think Peter was the first pope.

Ahh, there we go. Couldn't remember. Thanks.

Originally posted by markie
The council just decided which books to keep and how to interpret them. Arius was declared a heretuc because he had a different interpretation and most of the gnostic gospels were destroyed.

You win the cookie....and they based their view on the Pauline gospels..
They called everything heretical and persecuted you, or killed you to make their votes fit just the way they wanted it to come out...


Originally posted by finti
Lucifer

And this is how the council was formed...

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Actually, I think Peter was the first pope.

And that's how it all got started......and they all lived happily ever after...

Miriyam from Magdal (Maria Magdalene)

Originally posted by finti
Miriyam from Magdal (Maria Magdalene)

According to the Gnostic's......she was the favorite of Jesus.in loveinloveinlove

yeah but so was Judas I and Simon Peter too

Originally posted by finti
yeah but so was Judas I and Simon Peter too

OH no.....Well didn't know about Judas...OHHHHH....

Originally posted by debbiejo
According to the Gnostic's......she was the favorite of Jesus.in loveinloveinlove Wasn't she supposed to be his wife? Some people think that now days and I was wondering where they got it from. Some sects thought she and his mother were goddesses.

Jesus never married. his favorites were john, James and peter. He brought peter and James to witness the transfiguration when jesus was in his glory and was walking with both moses and Elijah. after that he went back to normal again and moses and Elijah disappeared.

certain groups strongly believe this

if there were evidence that he did the christian would still deny it cause that would shatter this image of a pefect being, i believe the historical jesus was gay

nope, god isn't gay.

I said I believe the historical jesus to be gay, I dont believe in god so god and the divine aint an issue for me, you can believe whatever you want cking but dont go stating your belief as a fact

in my religion Jesus is god and he claims it also. you believe what you want to believe also.

yes but I state it as my beleif and not a fact, big difference there

true. still it is good to hear what other people have to say about their own religions. if you want to believe what people say is true, it is up to you, your own decision will say if it is true or not. to believe or not to believe that is the question.

you miss my point, you can state what you believe all you like, but when they are refered to as a fact and not belief well.............

I consider myself a christian whether anybody else does ur not and I think if jesus behaved today like he did back then he might raise a few eyebrows but he wasn't gay. Being gay was supposed to be a sin back then and he was without sin. Some of the gnostics did believe that he was married but they had a lot of weird ideas.

Originally posted by cking
Jesus never married. his favorites were john, James and peter. He brought peter and James to witness the transfiguration when jesus was in his glory and was walking with both moses and Elijah. after that he went back to normal again and moses and Elijah disappeared.

Well according to the gnostic gospels, over 100 text that weren't included, he had a relationship with Mary. It's not included in all of them, only some.....Later in history it says that Mary had his child and left the area for France to flee from persecution, but I think the last part may have been fictional...not sure..

Paul was the true founder of orthodox Christianity. He held heaven for the pure, avoidance of women and sexuality, separation of body and soul.."For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit." Paul copied more the gnostic sects of his time... He made the separation between male and female principles into a religion. like Father Heaven and mother Earth...Women were no longer participants in sacred mysteries, they were forbidden to teach or preach...He layed guilt of original sin on woman alone absolving man from any responsibility...because Adam was not deceived, but the woman was...He was a believer in self castration like the god Attis and Paul was an earnest admirer of Roman culture...changing his name to Paul form Saul....He changed Gods original commandment to be fruitful and multiply to thinking God has changed His mind...."It's better not to touch a woman."
cry ......He was against sex altogether unless to not commit fornication, or it be better to cut it off, if it causes you to sin...

Parts are parts....castration.....and other body parts...."He that is dead is freed from sin" because he could no longer serve with the "uncleanness" of women...Not touching them.....

I don't think I like Paul....devil2

his parents basically gave him two names, because he was never born in Jerusalem. so they called him Saul in Israel. Paul in the gentile world. Jesus told him that paul would be his only name for now on, because he will be preaching alot outside of Israel in the gentile world. God did the same thing with Abraham, he old name was Abram, but it was changed into a longer world Abraham which means father of nations.

Originally posted by cking
his parents basically gave him two names, because he was never born in Jerusalem. so they called him Saul in Israel. Paul in the gentile world. Jesus told him that paul would be his only name for now on, because he will be preaching alot outside of Israel in the gentile world. God did the same thing with Abraham, he old name was Abram, but it was changed into a longer world Abraham which means father of nations.

Clueless........... ......small box living.....better buy a bigger box.....isn't yours gettin cramped.

nope, only getting bigger.

Originally posted by cking
nope, only getting bigger.

Big box means looking outside your own thinking (little box) to see what's out there.....studying it and then expanding your knowledge.

How is your box getting bigger when you are repeating the same things over and over again?....and do you read any of the links posted????

I could spout off a lot of doctrine too...Most everyone here can.

I don't know? you ask me. maybe I should be called repeat man.

Originally posted by cking
I don't know? you ask me. maybe I should be called repeat man.

Did you bring your friend pete?.....pete and repeat.....

yep, we are good friends in this situation.

I write alot also. come to the thread about Jesus is god and it I have written over 10,000 letters. you should look into it. after that post I wrote 2,000 more letters.

I know why you are holding on to those scriptures so tightly....It's because of the verse speaking of the end days...

Doctrines of Devils


"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1).
"giving heed" - means "to give attention to" people will unknowingly pay attention to things that are not true.
"to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"- "seducing" means to be a misleader, or to trick.


This is what you think is happening.....and you hold on so tightly....But..this was also read by the Roman church when Protestants came along during the Reformation thinking the Protestants were being mislead....And this was also read during the Inquisition, surely this must be the terrible day of the Lord, for we are being persecuted....and this was also read by the Holocaust sufferers, surely god will come and save us now......

True historical information will never lie to you....You need to do some digging.

nope, I don't do it because of the end times. it is our job to see that our church doesn't follow doctrine of devils. I'm sorry to say it is hurting our church. very true debbiejo. I have done plenty of digging. alot of churches are being mislead, but our job is to bring them back to god again.

I know very well that the end times are coming and the biggest prophecy was last century that was filled when Israel became a nation in 1948 and took Jerusalem in the six day war in 1967, the first time Israel has taken Jerusalem and has become a nation since 70 A.D. I don't remember what book had the prophecy, but I remember it said that Jews must return to the holy land before the time comes. I know were are getting very close, in fact Jesus said that many wars and rumors of it will happen, but it will be the pain sores before the terrible day comes. It will depend on how much people have faith. if they will continue to fall away like they do know then it will happen very soon.

Originally posted by cking
I know very well that the end times are coming and the biggest prophecy was last century that was filled when Israel became a nation in 1948 and took Jerusalem in the six day war in 1967, the first time Israel has taken Jerusalem and has become a nation since 70 A.D. I don't remember what book had the prophecy, but I remember it said that Jews must return to the holy land before the time comes. I know were are getting very close, in fact Jesus said that many wars and rumors of it will happen, but it will be the pain sores before the terrible day comes. It will depend on how much people have faith. if they will continue to fall away like they do know then it will happen very soon.

But there has always been wars and rumors of wars.....and so your church teaches dispensationism then.....that's not an original teaching....that came along around 100 years ago with Scolfield and Darby....you know the scolfield Bible.....It changed how the original gospels where taken....it cut the Bible into segments....different ways of salvation for different periods of time....like Noah's time, for the Jews, Christians believers, and tribulation after the saints are gone....ie..another chance.....this is a new teaching....did you ever study dispensations views? And did you ever look into pre trib, mid trib, and post trib?....I used to believe in pre trib, then realized it was wrong, then changed to mid or post trib, but settled on post trib.....but well now........you know what I think......I believe that your church probably teaches pre trib.....Jesus is coming before the tribulation then.....why don't you study all the views along with dispensations....get the whole view......then after that look outside that box and so on and so on....it's great learning.

true, I'm talking about more than usual rumors, plus wars haven't been that much devastating until world war two came along. no, Jesus will come after the tribulation to defeat the Antichrist leader and his armies. we teach this. when the rapture comes the believers while leave the earth and meet Jesus in heaven, but Jesus doesn't arrive until after the seven years of tribulation is over. never heard of the scolfield bible?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Paul was the true founder of orthodox Christianity. He held heaven for the pure, avoidance of women and sexuality, separation of body and soul.."For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit." Paul copied more the gnostic sects of his time... He made the separation between male and female principles into a religion. like Father Heaven and mother Earth...Women were no longer participants in sacred mysteries, they were forbidden to teach or preach...He layed guilt of original sin on woman alone absolving man from any responsibility...because Adam was not deceived, but the woman was...He was a believer in self castration like the god Attis and Paul was an earnest admirer of Roman culture...changing his name to Paul form Saul....He changed Gods original commandment to be fruitful and multiply to thinking God has changed His mind...."It's better not to touch a woman."
cry ......He was against sex altogether unless to not commit fornication, or it be better to cut it off, if it causes you to sin...

Parts are parts....castration.....and other body parts...."He that is dead is freed from sin" because he could no longer serve with the "uncleanness" of women...Not touching them.....

I don't think I like Paul....devil2

I'm not sure I believe this.......

According to this article, the new testament was written before the gnostic gospels. And according to this author, they are more reliable and authentic.

Read the paragraph under "The Orthodox Christian Response."

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/JesusNAM.html

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
I'm not sure I believe this.......

According to this article, the new testament was written before the gnostic gospels. And according to this author, they are more reliable and authentic.

Read the paragraph under "The Orthodox Christian Response."

http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/JesusNAM.html

Then why did Paul change Gods original command to multiply and be fruitful...to its better to be single unless for fornication reasons.....Did God change his mind???....OK, then it's better for the race to die off because god now says through Paul...that we should abstain?.....

Why did Paul change that women could not teach, and preach in the church??? In the OT not only did women teach, preach, and prophesied, but were also Judges.....Deborah was a Judge..

Paul did change the words of God.....So who is right God or Paul?

I don't know you tell me.

Originally posted by cking
I don't know you tell me.

But I'm asking you.....and you and you........

I feel the whole thing has been distorted and twisted....

don't ask me. I'm not an expert.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then why did Paul change Gods original command to multiply and be fruitful...to its better to be single unless for fornication reasons.....Did God change his mind???....OK, then it's better for the race to die off because god now says through Paul...that we should abstain?.....

Why did Paul change that women could not teach, and preach in the church??? In the OT not only did women teach, preach, and prophesied, but were also Judges.....Deborah was a Judge..

Paul did change the words of God.....So who is right God or Paul?

Didn't Paul meet James the brother of Jesus at the Christian Council at Jerusalem?

I just read the Galations/Acts and it states this.

I think we're being a bit too hard on Paul......maybe.

There are texts written by "James the brother of Jesus" that wasn't included in the cannon of scripture. And according to James and some others, James was also called "James the Just", I think and was to be the one to lead the believers on the way of what Jesus taught. Which was much different than what Paul taught...James taught more the Essene view of everyone having Christ within you...Not a Christ that was distorted in my view...Paul was mostly influenced by Mithra religion which was very big at the time of Paul, and some gnostics views that were taken outwardly, not inwardly, and twisted around...Mithra is what the church now is formed on...Which is called now the Pauline doctrines.

The resemblance of Mithra and Jesus is astounding.

http://www.vetssweatshop.net/dogma.htm

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html#mithra
^ shows different stories and how they influenced scripture

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html
^more about Mithra

Originally posted by cking
nope, I don't do it because of the end times. it is our job to see that our church doesn't follow doctrine of devils. I'm sorry to say it is hurting our church. very true debbiejo. I have done plenty of digging. alot of churches are being mislead, but our job is to bring them back to god again.

Originally posted by debbiejo
There are texts written by "James the brother of Jesus" that wasn't included in the cannon of scripture. And according to James and some others, James was also called "James the Just", I think and was to be the one to lead the believers on the way of what Jesus taught. Which was much different than what Paul taught...James taught more the Essene view of everyone having Christ within you...Not a Christ that was distorted in my view...Paul was mostly influenced by Mithra religion which was very big at the time of Paul, and some gnostics views that were taken outwardly, not inwardly, and twisted around...Mithra is what the church now is formed on...Which is called now the Pauline doctrines.

The resemblance of Mithra and Jesus is astounding.

http://www.vetssweatshop.net/dogma.htm

http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html#mithra
^ shows different stories and how they influenced scripture

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html
^more about Mithra

Here's a christian fundamentilist's response about Christianity *NOT* being influenced by Mithraism:

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html

Tell me what you think after you're done reading this article.

Peter only because he was at the head of it...

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Here's a christian fundamentilist's response about Christianity *NOT* being influenced by Mithraism:

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html

Tell me what you think after you're done reading this article. You would have to pick something long wouldnt you? , well I've read half of it, and will go back and read the rest...I have heard the arguments against Mithra though. Besides, when you look at Dionysus-Orsirus, and other such myths, you will also see the parallels...When reading through you'll see how one belief borrowed from another...It seemed even the Roman Catholic church knew of this.

The assertion that Jesus Christ is a myth can be proved not only through the works of dissenters and "pagans" who knew the truth - and who were viciously refuted or murdered for their battle against the Christian priests and "Church Fathers" fooling the masses with their fictions - but also through the very statements of the Christians themselves, who continuously disclose that they knew Jesus Christ was a myth founded upon more ancient deities located throughout the known ancient world. In fact, Pope Leo X, privy to the truth because of his high rank, made this curious declaration, "What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!" As Wheless says, "The proofs of my indictment are marvellously easy."

I belive Peter, John, and Paul are the top 3 apostles who did the most work for the Chruch.

Paul had the most influence though.