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can Fantastic 4 and X-Men stop the nearly irresistible force of both ... Classic Juggernaut and Savage Hulk

i believe they can only beeing stopped with the brain of Prof. Xavier and Reed Richards... because i see now powerhouse to can match with those behemoths.... sorry... but Colossus and Thing are to weak in my opinion to contend seriously with Juggy and Hulk

but if not with physical power.... i believe the two teams combined... can took them out.... but if Hulk wents crazy and get so angry like never before.... i believe there is no power in the world who can stop him !

Telepaths make Juggernaut take a sleep. Now against Hulk? They have to resort to a dogpile.

They still have to get Jugg's helmet off first and with him and Hulk working together that will be hard.

Another FF battle, this doesn't have anything to do with the movie, does it.

this fight has nothing to do with the movies mitch !

They can take the helmet off. Colossus did it before. Some will go down trying but they did it before and can do it again.

but olympian... the question is.... do Hulk allow this ? i mean.. when they work as a team... they has to support each other.... and if the two work as a team ( i know.. this never happen... ok i know it happened before.. but not really.. ) ... if they work as a team.... tell me an individual or a team on earth ...that can compete with Hulk and Juggs ?

Originally posted by Betageuze
this fight has nothing to do with the movies mitch !

Thats not what i meant. These FF battles are more frequent due to the release of the movies, thats what I'm saying brotha.

the movie here .. in the country where i live... has not even started.... brothaaaa ...

I know the nature of hulks psyche makes him resistant to telepathy but resistance doesnt equal immunity. He still got owned by Onslaught. If everyone was being ruthless then the FF and Xmen certainly stand a better chance of winning

Juggs and Hulk working together would reqiure the likes of the avengers to defeat along with the X-Men and FF

Originally posted by newjak86
Juggs and Hulk working together would reqiure the likes of the avengers to defeat along with the X-Men and FF

Storm has temporarily killed hulk while being ruthless. Xavier made hulk his b*tch. The Xmen always deal with Juggs.

A roster hasnt been listed for the xmen therefore its the assumption that its all of them on the planet. Juggs and hulk get taken down, but not without some casualties.

I would say alot of casualties you can't take this as a one on one breakdown because they are a team that means that they will be working together meaning that sperate these guys are always trouble toghter and you have many hetos having to sacrifice their life.

if the right x-men are picked, even just the x-men can take these 2 out

I think a ruthless FF r pretty unstoppable...considering that IW and HT could probably destroy the planet between the two of them. Having the X-men to provide some telepathic muscle means a blinded Jugs has no hope considering he will be trying to shake off Colossus and the Thing. Torch hits the Hulk with a Nova Blast while IW simultaneously causes invisible explosions within all his organs.

That would finish those two.

If you think thats all it would take to KO these guys you are mistaken my friend. Juggs has KOed Colossus in one Punch Thing in three. Hulk has a mad Healing factor better than Wolverine. This is no easy fight for any team going against them. Pus ifthese guys aren't fooling around like they normally do then this is one bad duo. Normally Juggs is so single minded in what he does if you get in his way he throws you outta of the way and lets you recuperate it's almost the same with Hulk. Toghter these guys could take out most of the X-Men no trouble. Espically if they were working as a team. Hulk uses a Thunder clap to take out most of the Air Born enemies and Juggs slams his fist into the ground causing a huge earthquake half of the team would be gone then.

yea but Hulk Jugs r not too heavy considering the people the FF regularly fight. Jugs and Hulk cant knock out anything if IW makes their retenas invisble and blinds them.

And Hulk will really have trouble with a serious Nova blast from the torch: Byrne wrote the Torch flying through the planet mars, and Blasting a Nova blast into the center of Earth's core from the surface and increasing the diameter of the Earth and matching the output of a star on multiple occasions; DeFalco wrote the Torch unloading enough Flame to destroy a hemisphere on the Celestial Exitar, and going nova in Galactus' face caused Galactus to call the Torch deadly right before he killed him. I know the torch has been beaten with stron wind, a sprinkler, and fire extinguisher in Spiderman and X-men cross overs but if u actually read him in good issues of FF with good writers he's pretty tough.

The Thing has been knocked out by Juggernaut after fighting 99 other villains in an issue of the wretched Secret Wars II title, but in his own comics he's beaten the Hulk, Blackbolt, Terrax, Wrecker, The Destroyer, Blastaar, Wonderman, She-Hulk, several members of the Shi'ar guard, Paibok, Namor etc. He's survived fights with Thanos, the Champion, Occulus, Anihulus, Dr Doom and his cosmic incarnations, Gladiator, the Beyonder, Silver Surfer, Thor, the Oblitorator, etc.

The FF can take away Jug's helmet. No matter how many X-men get ko'd from any initial blast from Jugs and Hulk making shockwaves, all they need is for Sue's shield to protect one of them and they can handle Jugs. Then like i said, i dont think Hulk could survive a ruthless attack from both the Torch and Sue.

The Hulk has been described as taking planet destroying shots and hit with lasers that should cut adamantite a Nova Blast will hurt him but it will only make him madder the same with Sue. Separately these teams could very well succeed without heavy loses but together and working as a team and well written themselves these guys aren't going down easily. Also if you wanna talk durability Juggs is above Hulk so the Nova Blast won't hurt him. These guys together working as a team is down right scary when you think of what they've done solo. That's what I'm getting at this is no cake walk these guys are dangerous and very well could beat them all. and the Thunder/earthquake combo was just one thing. These guys could probably think of some bigger ways to do damage. Like throwing entire building's at these fools each one throwing there own one. Eventually Sue is gonna tire and the Human torch isn't really gonna do anything to these guys. If they are even gonna have a chance at this team it is gonna require a massive plan with excellent execution to beat these guys.

Hulk and Jugs have not demonstrated they can acheive the kind of force that can break Sues field ie the only time it has been broken by a full blast from Doom with Watcher cosmic power.

I didnt say that the Torch would use nova flame on Jug. I said he would use it on Hulk, whom it would most certainly harm, Like I said, he has blasted straight to the center of the Earth and expanded it, written by Byrne. Thing and Colossus and company can get Jug's helmet off. A telepath can do the rest, or Reed can use some kind of neuro dislocator like Doom and Nimrod have used in the past to paralize Juggernaut.

Yeah but the thing is even used on Hulk he's gonna heal up real fast and that is only going to make him madder and stronger. Plus working together these guys probably won't have anyboby get close like Colossus or Thing. Plus I never said they would break sue's shield but haveing to have that shield is gonna to tire her fast plus she is probably gonna have to cover the whole team for awhile until she gets exausted. Then Sonic Claps and earthquakes are gonna really mess these guys up. Plus Juggs doesn't tire Hulk can go one for weeks from what I've seen so these guys are gonna be able to keep the up the attack for awhile. Plus Juggs has a force field of his own and once it's up no known force on Earth has ever been able to penetrate it. So this isn't as easy as you think plus they're working together so it isn't as easy as saying this is gonna happen to this one and this is gonna happen to the other because the other is gonna make sure that doesn't happen.

no its not easy. Im a big Hulk fan u know. But im a bigger FF fan. either team can win, but i was just exploring a possible sequence of events that would probably result in the FF and X-Men winning.

i hear ya but I'm saying that a team like this is way outta most people's league even the FF because Hulk alone can give them large problems.
Even the X-Men by themselves have problems taking Juggs down. This is Juggs fights with X-Men go they gang up on him he throws a few of them around because he normally has something else to do and he normally doesn't fiddle with people that aren't on his priorities. Well then after a large effort they finally get that helmet off and then they use telepathy on him. Hulk he normally gets tired of fighting and leaves or starts to go back to Banner than leaves. Together as a partnership these guys aren't gonna do that becasue now there are two of them meaning they can gang up if they have death on the mind thier are gonna be a large number openings in the X-Men after that and probably the fantastic four could become the fantastic none.

Hulk cant touch the modern FF. That would be a joke. Back in the day when the Thing was lifting 5 tons, the Torch couldnt stay aflame for longer than 30 minutes, and Invisible GIRL passed out from stress every issue, then Hulk could give them trouble. Since the Byrne days it simply wouldnt make sense for the FF to lose to the Hulk. Well actually the FF did beat the Hulk back in FF #160 something, like right before the return of Galactus.

Didn't know that just how tough are they now I mean even still the Hulk is the Hulk and he can't by hmslef but with Juggs we are talking about two of the toughest hombres in Marvel togehter these guys would need the attention of aqiute a few hero teams.

If Phoenix is included in this fight I'd say the X-men wins.

lol that goes without saying Paeng lol.

The roster hasnt been laid out so pretty much all of the Xmen currently alive and on the planet are assumed to be involved and they along with the F4 would most certainly take out the hulk, but not without some casualties. Juggs helmet can be removed by telekinesis and he can then be taken out of the picture by psionic means. The hulk isnt indestructible. His skin isnt as durable as colossus' for example its just that he has a mad healing factor that makes up for it. With the likes of human torch, havok, polaris and storm, serious energy wielders like that hav ewhat it takes to put him down. Hulk has been punked by Xaviers telepathy before and it could almost certainly be done again in an all out battle for survival.

It wont be a walk in the park by any means but the two teams will almost certainly win due to the teamwork and experience of the F4 and the sheer numbers and variety of experienced powerful mutants in the Xmen.

I agree Galatic they will overcome them but they are gonna take casualties

If the weaker characters attack first then they will have many casualties, but if Phoenix and Xavier attacks first and the rest will stay out off the battle I don't think there will be any casualties.

no need for phoenix

What do you mean by no Phoenix, Does that mean she is not included in the fight?

Paeng if Phoenix was involved she'd take them out singlehandedly thats why i think most of us arent considering her in the roster of X-men. Shes not currently a part of the X-men or even on earth anyway at the moment so she shouldnt be used anyway. Since the thread starter never stated the roster its just an assumption that its all members of the X-men on earth.

Ok I understand. But without her I think they still has a chance.

I think they can win without her. With her would be kinda...really cheap. I always assume unecessarily powerful Phoenix and Franklin Richards r not involved in FF and X-Men situations.