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Odin isn't allowed to use any magic spells, or use any magic at all except to amp his strength he gets his spear.

No banishment, no spells to make Hulk pass out, just a good ol' brawl.

Hulk comes into the fight uber angry to the 10th.

Does hulk have a chance?

hold...

Odin is probably pretty good fighter.

He's the best fighter in Asgaurd, I think.
Remember though, Odin can amp his strength to an unknown degree, possibly limitless. He can also grow to like 89 feet tall.

I'm still bent on the fact of all the prowress and abilities that odin has, that hulk simply cannot fathom.

In a brawl, I still feel hulk can be defeated, but I'd be damned that someone is going to come and say "hulk gets stronger"

But his amping reminds me of herc, and that he can do it without a condition" anger" leads me to think that he still wins.

He still wins. Normal strenght level of both him and Zeus are above Hulk and others. He can amp his strengh and even use his spear?

Hulk is going to get a free flight from Asgard to Earth.

"But his amping reminds me of herc, and that he can do it without a condition" anger" leads me to think that he still wins"

You mean the "Hera madness"? that was when Myth Herc couldnt control his temper and didnt hold back. At Marvel i think he used it like twice. Hulk as far as i know increases his strengh with rage "only". The rest are adreline boosts that everyone have. Including Odin.

Odin.

Originally posted by olympian
He still wins. Normal strenght level of both him and Zeus are above Hulk and others. He can amp his strengh and even use his spear?

Hulk is going to get a free flight from Asgard to Earth.

"But his amping reminds me of herc, and that he can do it without a condition" anger" leads me to think that he still wins"

You mean the "Hera madness"? that was when Myth Herc couldnt control his temper and didnt hold back. At Marvel i think he used it like twice. Hulk as far as i know increases his strengh with rage "only". The rest are adreline boosts that everyone have. Including Odin.
Odin starts out between 70/80 tons lifting abilities, then he can instantly enhance his physical skills to further high levels.
See the fight with Thanos.The mighty titan survived thanks to his uncanny durability, if he wasn't so tough, Odin would have incinerate him early in the fight.

i agree

He's saying that Odin wins... (olympian).

Wer all saying Odin wins Cordera What K3 didnt agreed was the normal level of strenght for Odin that i said. Lets see:

"Odin starts out between 70/80 tons lifting abilities, then he can instantly enhance his physical skills to further high levels."

Here is the thing. I never go by handbooks. Never. Theyr so inaccurate its not even funny. Zeus who is Odins equal in practically every way ( both having its own advantages over the other ) is said in the handbooks i saw as a class 90. Yet without amping his strenght ( out of his normal levels) he has punked Thor twice, Hercules with 2 shots, Namor fresh out of water with one. All those are above the normal class 100. Odin fough at normal levels against Thor also. The handbooks - for me - arent accurate for what they show in the comics.

Other than that, yeah Hulk has no chance here.

hulk would destroy totally this Odin without magic.

and WarHulk could beat normal Odin with all power

WarHulk >>>>> Thanos = stalemated Odin.

Originally posted by olympian
Wer all saying Odin wins Cordera What K3 didnt agreed was the normal level of strenght for Odin that i said. Lets see:

"Odin starts out between 70/80 tons lifting abilities, then he can instantly enhance his physical skills to further high levels."

Here is the thing. I never go by handbooks. Never. Theyr so inaccurate its not even funny. Zeus who is Odins equal in practically every way ( both having its own advantages over the other ) is said in the handbooks i saw as a class 90. Yet without amping his strenght ( out of his normal levels) he has punked Thor twice, Hercules with 2 shots, Namor fresh out of water with one. All those are above the normal class 100. Odin fough at normal levels against Thor also. The handbooks - for me - arent accurate for what they show in the comics.

Other than that, yeah Hulk has no chance here.

Dude I was confirming you, you're out for blood.

Hulk loses. Sorely.

"Dude I was confirming you, you're out for blood.

Hulk loses. Sorely."

No one disagreed on whos the winner. What it seemed was that K3 mentioned one level for Odin at normal and i said why i though it was wrong. Nothing more. Why for me handbooks are outdated.

"hulk would destroy totally this Odin without magic.

and WarHulk could beat normal Odin with all power

WarHulk >>>>> Thanos = stalemated Odin."

Odin isent human. He - is - magic. Same way Hulk is nothing without gamma radiation. That being said he has much better feats than any Hulk so far.

WarHulk didnt do anything other than stopping a - regular - Juggernaut. Its juggernaut a skyfather level being now for we to compare?

I meant to put a smilie there, my bad.

Well you put it now heres another.

When was Namor ever Class 100? Has he been upgraded? LoL, that's funny.

Handbooks are as accurate as the author makes them. Some are inconsisent, incongruous. Some information gets updated and no handbook can afford to recall/reprint character info as it is updated (for example, Grant Morrison granting Emma the diamondform ability).

Odin has been known to be slightly weaker than Zeus starting out.

So Odin has punked Thor, Hercules, and Namor. Hulk beat Hercules within an inch of his life. Once Thor flung away Mjolnir after Hulk dared him to and hit him 6 times in a row before the hammer even returned.

And Odin can allegedly "instantly" amp his strength to phenomenal levels. So can Hulk, and his continues to increase exponentially/geometrically. Oh, you say otherwise? How long did it take him to increase in strength to support 150 billion tons? Precisely.

So it is a h2h battle and Odin automatically wins? On what account?

Namor is a class 100 now if I remember correctly...

"When was Namor ever Class 100? Has he been upgraded? LoL, that's funny"

Since ever. His wins against Hulk and stalemates against Immortal Hercules show it.

"Handbooks are as accurate as the author makes them"

I dont go with them because writers of the comics dont follow them. Each hero have better showings in comics than the handbok tells you. Every single one.

"Odin has been known to be slightly weaker than Zeus starting out. "

By handbooks not comics. And that works for both.

"So Odin has punked Thor, Hercules, and Namor"

Zeus did it.

"Hulk beat Hercules within an inch of his life"

Do some research first. The Hercules Hulk beat in the one shot was hercules as mortal/depowered ( yeah its cannon ) and had half of his powers stripped. He basically wasent at Hulks level in anything except superior figthing skills.

Hulk never beat regular immortal Hercules in any of theyr 5 fights ( the sixth being that one shot ).

"Once Thor flung away Mjolnir after Hulk dared him to and hit him 6 times in a row before the hammer even returned"

And Thor wasent down or knocked out.

Originally posted by olympian
"When was Namor ever Class 100? Has he been upgraded? LoL, that's funny"

Since ever. His wins against Hulk and stalemates against Immortal Hercules show it.

"Handbooks are as accurate as the author makes them"

I dont go with them because writers of the comics dont follow them. Each hero have better showings in comics than the handbok tells you. Every single one.

"Odin has been known to be slightly weaker than Zeus starting out. "

By handbooks not comics. And that works for both.

"So Odin has punked Thor, Hercules, and Namor"

Zeus did it.

"Hulk beat Hercules within an inch of his life"

Do some research first. The Hercules Hulk beat was in the one shot was hercules was mortal ( marvel cannon in comics ) and had half of his powers stripped. He basically wasent at Hulks level in anything except superior figthing skills.

Hulk never beat regular immortal Hercules in any of theyr 5 fights ( the sixth being that one shot ).

"Once Thor flung away Mjolnir after Hulk dared him to and hit him 6 times in a row before the hammer even returned"

And Thor wasent down or knocked out.

Just one thing. comics can lead to a misdiscretion and arent always writtn for guys like us.

They are written for the majority (who don't know better), thus bs feats occur.

"And Odin can allegedly "instantly" amp his strength to phenomenal levels. So can Hulk, and his continues to increase exponentially/geometrically"

Thing is if they both chose to increase Odin will surpass Hulk by far.

"Oh, you say otherwise? How long did it take him to increase in strength to support 150 billion tons? Precisely."

Hulk supported for some time a mountain. At best a portion of a mountain range. Hercules has dragged islands alone like Manhattan . Thor has lifted off earth a being bigger than Earth. Glads and Drax have destroyed planets with theyr fists. Pardon me for not taking that comparation of a mountain to the rest serious.

For you to get an idea a being who had his Odins powers (something like his dark side) was destroying galaxies. Yeah i better not take it serious.

"So it is a h2h battle and Odin automatically wins? On what account"

On the account that h2h hes gone toe to toe and defeated beings far powerful than Hulk. Here are two examples : Classic Mangog and Surtur.

Originally posted by olympian
Since ever. His wins against Hulk and stalemates against Immortal Hercules show it.

Shows nothing. Thing defeated Hulk. He is nowhere near Class 100. Namor is Thing's strength level IN water. Namor was NEVER near Class 100 even when they first created TOHOTMU in 1985. I know, I had them.



Garbage. Writers are afforded a modicum of creative liberty but generally adhere to a character's longstanding ability listing, period. You'll never see Wolverine running at the speed of sound or Superman with telekinesis unless they are retconned. Writers are also allowed to expand on a character's ability (for example, Hulk's strength being affected by anger AND adrenaline; in addition, his healing factor increasing in efficacy with his adrenaline surges). The handbooks are a general guide, not a final and authoritative interpretation.



So you say.



So Zeus.



I said he beat him within an inch of his life. He DID. No research necessary.



They never got a chance to fight. Hercules ran away in #316, for example.



He was down. He got up. Would you prefer I reference the Hulk 2001 Annual where it said "Abruptly its over. Thor, it seems, has been beaten beyond reason. Whether he is alive or dead...the Hulk doesn't care."

Does that count as being knocked out? I daresay it does.

So...why does Odin walk over Hulk again?



Prove it. What part of "virtually limitless" do you not understand?

Can I just give Never a Big up for writing some of the most interesting and insightful stuff i have read in ages. Can I also give you some respect for a Thread you put together more than a year ago that put Marvel and D.C.'s strongest characters in an accurate League. It was this thread that started my obssesion with comic strength Levels. So cheers mate

"Handbooks are as accurate as the author makes them. Some are inconsisent, incongruous"

Do you believe that Marvel over the last 10 years have shown a far greater loyalty to their class system than they ever did before? It has been along time since any Marvel character performed a truely impressive feat, and I believed that this have been down to the Class system. Is it pulling far more weight (no pun intended) with artistic styles than it did during the 70's and 80's ?


"Just one thing. comics can lead to a misdiscretion and arent always writtn for guys like us.

What do you mean by this ?

They are written for the majority (who don't know better), thus bs feats occur."

What do you mean by this aswell ?

"Garbage. Writers are afforded a modicum of creative liberty but generally adhere to a character's longstanding ability listing, period. You'll never see Wolverine running at the speed of sound or Superman with telekinesis unless they are retconned. Writers are also allowed to expand on a character's ability (for example, Hulk's strength being affected by anger AND adrenaline; in addition, his healing factor increasing in efficacy with his adrenaline surges). The handbooks are a general guide, not a final and authoritative interpretation."

To true, I couldn't have said it better !!!!!!!!!!!

A "big up?" How appropriate considering my place of birth (Jamaica, Jamaica)



I'll hazard a guess a say that the influx of talented writers has a bit to do with it. Storylines are no longer necessarily driven by incredible feats of strength/magic; the Grant Morrisons have upped the ante with runaway train-esque story arcs; Mark Waid has done wonders with character development and team dynamics...creative interpretation of character abilities has replaced the boorish, "biff" "zap" "pow" fights. Anyone remember what The Engineer did in The Authority? Terraforming entire African veldts? Creating a molecular sized, razor sharp net to catch and destroy those incoming clones? You just did not see that kind of writing 20, 30 years ago.

Was it a conscious effort on Marvel's behalf...? Difficult to say, but yes, I'll agree that they are pulling more weight with artistic styles.

Will also like to revisit the "if x character beat y character then they are in the same strength class" argument. Come on. Doc Samson beat The Hulk. Is he necessarily Class 100? No. Recall the infamous Spiderman vs. Firelord fight? There are faaar too many variables involved for one to conclude that, because a character survived/stalemated another, they are in the same class strength-wise. Hulk will NEVER defeat everyone. Does Superman defeat everyone? No. Shaggy Man stalemated Superman. Writers need to tell a STORY. If that story entails Thing one-upping The Hulk, then Thing will defeat The Hulk but we ALL know that, in 10 fights, Hulk SHOULD logically stomp Thing at least 7/10.

For the record, yeah I think Odin with his nigh bottomless well of experience should defeat Hulk (Thanos went toe-to-toe with Odin sans Hulk's limitless strength and healing factor). I am always seeing whether or not one can construct a cogent argument supporting their reason.

Always have been, just never said so before.

Everyone around here's black, cooooool.

"I'll hazard a guess a say that the influx of talented writers has a bit to do with it. Story lines are no longer necessarily driven by incredible feats of strength/magic; the Grant Morrison's have upped the ante with runaway train-esque story arcs; Mark Waid has done wonders with character development and team dynamics...creative interpretation of character abilities has replaced the boorish, "biff" "zap" "pow" fights. Anyone remember what The Engineer did in The Authority? Terra forming entire African veldts? Creating a molecular sized, razor sharp net to catch and destroy those incoming clones? You just did not see that kind of writing 20, 30 years ago.

Was it a conscious effort on Marvell's behalf...? Difficult to say, but yes, I'll agree that they are pulling more weight with artistic styles."

I totally agree that with what you rae saying. As you said, far more attention has been spent on character expansion and creating a more realistic Representation. This process has not only enforced better story telling it has prevented the development of what is known as power Inflation. (E.G. what happened to Pre Crisis Superman)

I have been reading comics for a relatively short period, therefore i cannot accurately say whether or not this has happened for the best. What attracted me to comics in the first place was the reality escape they provided. I liked the concept; that super heroes could go far beyond the limits set by science on normal humans. I believe, by enforcing limits upon character powers they are having a negative effect on foundational notion behind super powers.

As i said before on another thread, Super strength in Marvel is no longer that 'Super'

As to this point :
"Will also like to revisit the "if x character beat y character then they are in the same strength class" argument. Come on. Doc Samson beat The Hulk. Is he necessarily Class 100? No. Recall the infamous Spiderman vs. Firelord fight? There are Far too many variables involved for one to conclude that, because a character survived/stalemated another, they are in the same class strength's. Hulk will NEVER defeat everyone. Does Superman defeat everyone? No. Shaggy Man stalemated Superman. Writers need to tell a STORY. If that story entails Thing one-upping The Hulk, then Thing will defeat The Hulk but we ALL know that, in 10 fights, Hulk SHOULD logically stomp Thing at least 7/10."

I cannot agree more. This argument is applied to far to Manny characters in this forum.

"Shows nothing. Thing defeated Hulk. He is nowhere near Class 100. Namor is Thing's strength level IN water. Namor was NEVER near Class 100 even when they first created TOHOTMU in 1985. I know, I had them."

Pinnaple Thing- amped. vs a Grey Hulk who was weaker. That shows alot. Namor has always been portraited as class 100 as soon Marvel started to write theyr top level heroes in that range. Handbooks dont spell comics. A guy who has stalemates against immortal Herc and Hulk evenly in land and beats them in water is not lower than that class.

"Garbage. Writers are afforded a modicum of creative liberty but generally adhere to a character's longstanding ability listing, period. You'll never see Wolverine running at the speed of sound or Superman with telekinesis unless they are retconned"

A character longstanding ability like he was always portaited in comics. I see you got my point. Good. What im saying is that handbooks are outdated and nothing else. What are you exactly replying back? That im right? And again Heroes do stuff in comics that by handbooks its wrong. Like saying Hulk cant take nuclear explosions. How many he did so far? 3?

"So you say."

Yes i do. Read any comics with both and youll know.

"I said he beat him within an inch of his life. He DID. No research necessary"

And its right. It doesnt bear any argument to compare both of them tho. Herc was depowered. It doesnt spell superiority if you beat someone depowered while your not. However if that works for you, i guess the Ko Hercules gave to the Hulk in the end of the mindless Hulk/Avengers fight, when Hulk was weaker its clean here. 1=1.

"They never got a chance to fight. Hercules ran away in #316, for example"

For two guys who had the total of 6 fights counting that one shot, they sure seem that never had the chance. Hercules alone was stalemating that Hulk.

As a research note: Hulk ran in theyr first fight. In the same conditions: a stalemate.

"He was down. He got up. Would you prefer I reference the Hulk 2001 Annual where it said "Abruptly its over. Thor, it seems, has been beaten beyond reason. Whether he is alive or dead...the Hulk doesn't care."

The same anual that had Thor getting up and still ready to fight? Be my guest.

"So...why does Odin walk over Hulk again?"

Alot more powerful, more experienced. Stronger. Better durability. Better amping. Fought stronger and more powerful beings than Hulk h2h...want more?

"Prove it. What part of "virtually limitless" do you not understand"

Until comics show Hulk surpassing strenght by strenght: Celestials, Galactus, Skyfathers etc. I want it showed and not only the pun. You already had Hulk during Pad first run admiting in relation against one foe ( maybe from the Hela storyline ) that he could get weeks with rage increase and wouldnt still match foes like that.
I want Hulk and a skyfather side by side and he doing something a Skyfather cant. Its simple.

Want it more easy? He can increase all he wants that Odin increases even more.

Originally posted by olympian

Pinnaple Thing- amped. vs a Grey Hulk who was weaker. That shows alot. Namor has always been portraited as class 100 as soon Marvel started to write theyr top level heroes in that range. Handbooks dont spell comics. A guy who has stalemates against immortal Herc and Hulk evenly in land and beats them in water is not lower than that class.

Could not care less about his stalemates. Were they battles of strength or FIGHTS? Fights. Sooooo because Doc Samson (since you avoided it the first time) knocked out Hulk in a fight he's in the same weight class, by that warped logic? Because Spiderman knocked out Firelord he's in the same weight class, by that warped logic? Nope. Namor has not always been Class 100 strength. Period.



Show me any handbook/internet compendium that details precisely each and every instance that a character can survive/overcome. Did HIV even EXIST when Hulk was given a healing factor? Um, NO. So that means that handbook is wrong when a writer/editor decides to expand on a character's abilities? LoL, that's laughable.



I've read Thor since Simonson started. I do know. Zeus is slightly more powerful than Odin. I'll agree to disagree.



I know it is right. Hulk is more powerful, period.



What is your point? Thor has encountered Hulk numerous times. Did each result in a conclusive victory/defeat for either? Nope.



Still ready to fight after being knocked out? LoL



More what, opinions? He's stripped of magic. "Better amping?" LMAO can't get much better than "the madder he gets, the stronger he gets."



Now one writer's interpretation of Hulk's ability is canon, right? Just like Spiderman "admitted" that his reflexes are 45x that of a human's? How convenient for your argument. Sorry, Celestials, Galactus, etc do not have limitless strength potential.



Then become a Marvel writer and write the story arc. Hell, I want a Dodge Viper. Doesn't mean I'll get one.

" Nope. Namor has not always been Class 100 strength. Period."

Samson who was being trashed in that fight and only manage the Ko because of a sucker shot? The same Samson who broke his hand by doing it? That spells not having the same strenght range for me. Just the enought to made it.
Namor on the other hand since the Lee and Kirby days has been consitantly showed to fight evenly against Hulk and co. Not " just making it " but evenly. Thats the difference.

"Show me any handbook/internet compendium that details precisely each and every instance that a character can survive/overcome. Did HIV even EXIST when Hulk was given a healing factor? Um, NO. So that means that handbook is wrong when a writer/editor decides to expand on a character's abilities? LoL, that's laughable."

Its a rusty source. And when pll use it like your stance on Namor it - is - laughable just because the handbook says hes lower. Outdated means exactly that my good sir. The moment characters consistantly do thing that handbooks dont consider right, its of no use anymore. Comics are what counts. And that is counting the fact Namor was always written in the big leagues.

"I've read Thor since Simonson started. I do know. Zeus is slightly more powerful than Odin. I'll agree to disagree."

Each opinion is valid. Odin just has more feats because hes the top myth God at Marvel. I rather see them about the same wich each one bringing something to the table. Wich is how they refer to each other.

"I know it is right. Hulk is more powerful, period. "

More powerful than a Hercules version whos not top level. I agree. But then again so is Hercules more powerful than Grey Hulk.

"What is your point? Thor has encountered Hulk numerous times. Did each result in a conclusive victory/defeat for either? Nope"

No. Hulk/Thor fights the same way as Herc/Thor and Hulk/Thor and lets even use the Juggernaut/Hulk always end up in stalemates. Theres no clean victories of none. They all play in the same ballpark. read that is said - clean - victories. Non clean some have it.

"Still ready to fight after being knocked out? LoL"

He was up after that scene where hes down. lol indeed. Down btw not out.

"More what, opinions? He's stripped of magic. "Better amping?" LMAO can't get much better than "the madder he gets, the stronger he gets."

Yes. Opinions that wer all showed up in comics. Didnt you claimed to read Thor? Read it. He can amp here. Read also the theard starter. And Hulk dinamic strengh against Odin who starts already on a higher level?
Ha Ha.

"Now one writer's interpretation of Hulk's ability is canon, right? Sorry, Celestials, Galactus, etc do not have limitless strength potential."

Prove it. Ill give you a hint. Odin was stated during some fights ( ill let you find out wich, since you said you read it. ) that he could amped all he wanted. Writers often say alot but they dont write it. Like WW being second - only - to Superman. Its hypes and puns all together but not show. Such is also Hulk limitess strenght. Next i know youll be telling me he can amp beyond living tribunal. Go ahead, lets laught.

"Then become a Marvel writer and write the story arc. Hell, I want a Dodge Viper. Doesn't mean I'll get one."

Buy one. You sure will get it first in life then reading the later happening.

Hulk is not more powerful than ODin

Hes not Surfer or even Thanos level, and people already want him beating on Skyfathers.

I was relying on the fact Odin has said himself to be able to amp his strength to any level he so desired.

Hulk is not the only creature in the MU who has the claim of limitless strength.

Cosmic beings like Skyfather and above do it if they want it.

Odin fight with Seth shows it. Against Surtur also.

Savage Hulk so far hasent even equaled a non amped Zeus beating the Avengers powerhouses at the same time. Hes yet to beat Hercules, or Thor or Namor. And i mean actually defeating them not just holding its own.

Originally posted by long pig
I was relying on the fact Odin has said himself to be able to amp his strength to any level he so desired.

Hulk is not the only creature in the MU who has the claim of limitless strength.

I cried in tears reading that, I'm so glad to hear that HULK IS NOT THE ONLY UNLIMITED GUY !!!! Yeahh long pig you RULE !!!

Of course he isent. He never showed to have such limitess he would surpass anyone in just strenght.

What he does get its above the high class 100. -When- he gets like that.

Let's not downplay Hulk though, he is indeed the strongest on Earth by far, but not the strongest in the Universe as implied by some.

Im not saying hes downplaying Hulk. Hulk potentially can surpass Thor and Hercules. But so far it happened in feats. Wich is valid. Theyr all equals and is when Hulk gets uber pissed that he gets above them.

Originally posted by olympian
Im not saying hes downplaying Hulk. Hulk potentially can surpass Thor and Hercules. But so far it happened in feats. Wich is valid. Theyr all equals and is when Hulk gets uber pissed that he gets above them.
Hulk can exceed any non-infinite in terms of strength.

Hulk can exceed Celestial level strength. (he did it twice)

Without the Odinpower, this wouldn't be an easy fight for Odin. He's just like Thor, (possibly weaker) and he's a much better fighter. The Odinpower is what makes Odin a Skyfather. Without it, Odin could be defeated in this battle.

Originally posted by long pig
I was relying on the fact Odin has said himself to be able to amp his strength to any level he so desired.

Hulk is not the only creature in the MU who has the claim of limitless strength.

There are a few guys in the MU who have limitless strength. Most of them have strength, and several other abilities. Hulk only has strength.

I think Hulk has a chance myself, this isn't a spite thread, they both can seemingly amp their physical to limitless degrees.

It's pretty even to me, I see Hulk taking the majority of the blows, but being able to take them without faultering.

Originally posted by long pig
I think Hulk has a chance myself, this isn't a spite thread, they both can seemingly amp their physical to limitless degrees.

It's pretty even to me, I see Hulk taking the majority of the blows, but being able to take them without faultering.

I know. The first problem is that Odin couldn't amp his strength without the Odinpower. Hulk will definitely be taking a LOT more hits.

I see, well that's kinda what the thread was based on, that's why I allowed him to have the magic he needs to amp his strength, but he can't use it for anything else.

Otherwise he just get's pounded.

It's quite impressive that Hulk could probably fare well against a skyfather in a physical match.

One more point.

If you look closely, Hulk has never really displayed his limitless potential strength in a fight, without some form of outside influence (ala Jean Grey, etc.) He only displays limitless strength when doing something impossible, or that requires insane levels of strength (ala holding apart the matter and antimatter orbs.) He's usually strong enough to match his opponent, and he grows stronger as he fights.

I don't want anyone to think that I believe Hulk to be unbeatable, because that's far from the truth.

Originally posted by long pig
I see, well that's kinda what the thread was based on, that's why I allowed him to have the magic he needs to amp his strength, but he can't use it for anything else.

Otherwise he just get's pounded.

It's quite impressive that Hulk could probably fare well against a skyfather in a physical match.

That depends on the limits of the Odinpower. Hulk has an energy source that has been confirmed to be infinite. If the Odinpower is equally as infinite, and Hulk, for some reason, is able to tap his limitless source without restriction, it's a draw. If the Odinpower is not infinite, Hulk can overcome Odin.

"can exceed any non-infinite in terms of strength.

"Hulk can exceed Celestial level strength. (he did it twice)"

High end feats. While theyr valid. Skyfathers can increase more.


"Without the Odinpower, this wouldn't be an easy fight for Odin.He's just like Thor, (possibly weaker) and he's a much better fighter. The Odinpower is what makes Odin a Skyfather. Without it, Odin could be defeated in this battle."

This one made me think. Not that " hulk as a chance " because it doesnt. What is a Odin without...Odinpower? Thats him. His own magic. Im not making Hulk a simple human either because thats what he is without gamma radiation.

The difference still being, Odin didnt "won" his powers, he was born with them while Banner earn them due to an accident.

"That depends on the limits of the Odinpower."

So far the Odin power has been used to defeat beings like the Souleater, Infinity, Seth and Surtur. Not to mention galaxy feats and fights. Seems alot to me.

Originally posted by olympian
"can exceed any non-infinite in terms of strength.

"Hulk can exceed Celestial level strength. (he did it twice)"

High end feats. While theyr valid. Skyfathers can increase more.


"Without the Odinpower, this wouldn't be an easy fight for Odin.He's just like Thor, (possibly weaker) and he's a much better fighter. The Odinpower is what makes Odin a Skyfather. Without it, Odin could be defeated in this battle."

This one made me think. Not that " hulk as a chance " because it doesnt. What is a Odin without...Odinpower? Thats him. His own magic. Im not making Hulk a simple human either because thats what he is without gamma radiation.

The difference still being, Odin didnt "won" his powers, he was born with them while Banner earn them due to an accident.

Skyfathers can increase thier strength to Celestial level? "What are they waiting for?"

Banner didn't earn his powers. He doesn't even want them. It wasn't an accident either. He became the Hulk when he risked his life trying to save a teenager from certain death. The blast of the Gamma Bomb threw Banner's body into a state of interdimensional flux, and connected him to an entire universe of infinite power. The origin of Hulk's power is not of any concern. Is the Odinpower infinite?

"Banner didn't earn his powers. He doesn't even want them. It wasn't an accident either. He became the Hulk when he risked his life trying to save a teenager from certain death"

It was a bad choice of words from my part. Yeah he didnt earned them. Correct.

"Is the Odinpower infinite?"

See examples of what the Odinpower has done in the previous post.

Out of curiosity what was the second time Hulk attained "celestial level"?

Hulk has greater feats of strength than anone you've mentioned.

Carrying Islands? Hulk did it.

Smashing planets? Hulk destroyed one twice the size of Earth, one punch.

Hulk held apart the matter and antimatter orbs. No one else comes close.

Odin can destroy a galaxy? That doesn't prove he has infinite power, but since when?

All I've seen is you continuing to reiterate that Odin would surpass Hulk without any supporting facts.

Originally posted by olympian
"Banner didn't earn his powers. He doesn't even want them. It wasn't an accident either. He became the Hulk when he risked his life trying to save a teenager from certain death"

It was a bad choice of words from my part. Yeah he didnt earned them. Correct.

"Is the Odinpower infinite?"

See examples of what the Odinpower has done in the previous post.

Out of curiosity what was the second time Hulk attained "celestial level"?

#1: Fighting Tyrannus.

#2: Breaking open the Pit that holds the Flame of Life.

"Hulk has greater feats of strength than anone you've mentioned"

Earth based? Better than most yes. There are others that are better tho.

"Carrying Islands? Hulk did it"

I have it. The only difference is it was a desert Island while the one Herc dragged was a populated one. But its a nice feat yeah.

"Smashing planets? Hulk destroyed one twice the size of Earth, one punch"

An asteroid. The rest is correct.

"Odin can destroy a galaxy? That doesn't prove he has infinite power, but since when?"

It should however be easy to see his max his way higher than Hulk, no? Its been showed that the enemies he defeats have power to destroy galaxies. Surtur destroyed one to forge his sword. And still couldnt defeat Odin toe to toe. Infinity, who was a "Odin dark side" was destroying galaxies also. There are other examples.

"All I've seen is you continuing to reiterate that Odin would surpass Hulk without any supporting facts."

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/157/Odin-Sethpowerthreat.jpg

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/9378/Surtur00.jpg

http://img80.exs.cx/img80/9077/odinvssurturthor3534ru.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2980/OdinabsorbsSurtur.jpg

http://img59.exs.cx/img59/2446/Odin-Infinitygalaxies.jpg

img252.imageshack.us/img252/38/odinseth40xl.jpg

If any of those doesnt open right away, paste the url and open on another page.

"#1: Fighting Tyrannus.

#2: Breaking open the Pit that holds the Flame of Life."

Can you post both?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Hulk can exceed any non-infinite in terms of strength.

Hulk can exceed Celestial level strength. (he did it twice)

Without the Odinpower, this wouldn't be an easy fight for Odin. He's just like Thor, (possibly weaker) and he's a much better fighter. The Odinpower is what makes Odin a Skyfather. Without it, Odin could be defeated in this battle.
Hulk exceeding a Celestial in strenght?When?
Hulk can't exceed any being with incalculable strenght level.
Odin without Odinpower can still cast illusions, and in this fight he gets Gugnir.He can outmatch in hth Hulk with his superior skills and experience while casting around Hulk hundred duplicates of himself, then stab his brain with Gugnir and behead him.
Hulk isn't unbeatable, and regardless his feats of strenght, he has been K.O.ed on various occasions.

Thats why im waiting the scans to see it. Odin has galaxy level busting feats. Everyone that had the Odinpower had feats of that nature.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Hulk exceeding a Celestial in strenght?When?
Hulk can't exceed any being with incalculable strenght level.
Odin without Odinpower can still cast illusions, and in this fight he gets Gugnir.He can outmatch in hth Hulk with his superior skills and experience while casting around Hulk hundred duplicates of himself, then stab his brain with Gugnir and behead him.
Hulk isn't unbeatable, and regardless his feats of strenght, he has been K.O.ed on various occasions.

The Incredible Hulk: #242, Hulk breaks through the wall that holds the flame of life, which withstood the power of Celestials. Narration states: "He just pulls all the more, straining with every iota of his strength to rip free this infernal object...becoming madder and madder, his strength building with his anger, as he tugs against a device built to withstand the power of gods! But this is the power of the Hulk! And ultimately, there is no force stronger than the Hulk!"

Celestials tried this, and failed.

Respect, please.

Can you show the celestials failing?

"gods" its too a general term to let us know which ones are they talking about.

Lastly, it says the device was built to wistand the power of gods. It doesnt say they cant overcome it. Or that theyr strengh wont work. Its one hell of a feat from someone whos not cosmic but it doenst spell its impossible for beings above him.

And Hulk does have my respect.

oh olympian shut it for crying out loud. look ive argued against your strange dissmisiveness of hulks potential and now im afraid either understand or shut it. hulk is not undefeatable, magic, intellect are all ways to defeat him. physically too if it suits the story. however what hulk as a character has is the ability to do the impossible with unlimited amounts of strength that are godly at times. if odin is not using magic then physically hulk has the potential to beat him, as he has anyone physically. this is what he was created to do. not in every comic or story i grant you. but when the chips are down and the end is near that is when he supes up to , well... incredible proportions.
another fact is i believe his fights with namour have usually been a tie or hulk winning with the excuse namour is out of water. and if you still believe the likes of herc or namour are on the same physical level of hulk then my friend you need to look at surgery to enlarge that clit of a penis of yours

Ill hear you only when you -show scans- and proof for every garbage can you open when you start typing. Devil Hulk and CC when they dont agree with me at least do that. Thats how you win some credit.

Until then your just a dummie who doenst know jack.

"if odin is not using magic then physically hulk has the potential to beat him, as he has anyone physically"

For the last time a list of pll Hulk never beat physically at full power:

- Juggernaut

- Drax

- Hercules

- Thanos

- Silver Surfer

- Thor

- Black Bolt

Have a nice day Sir

Juggernaut is physically invincible.

Drax has the Infinity Power Gem.

Hercules and Hulk haven't fought since Hulk beat up Half-God Herc.

Thanos is friggin Thanos. Hulk doesn't have the firepower or the brains to beat him in an all out battle, and even in a physical match, it would be close.

Silver Surfer is way too versatile and durable for Hulk. He wouldn't wrestle with him. He would blast him into a Texas sized crater.

Thor has Mjolnir, one of the most powerful magical artifacts in existence. Hulk has had no problem physically outmatching him.

Black Bolt can whisper, and blast Hulk into the next state.

Hulk can become stronger than anyone. He cannot beat everyone.



The fact that Hulk hasn't beaten an individual doesn't mean that he isn't stronger than them. Strength isn't what

Originally posted by olympian
Can you show the celestials failing?

"gods" its too a general term to let us know which ones are they talking about.

Lastly, it says the device was built to wistand the power of gods. It doesnt say they cant overcome it. Or that theyr strengh wont work. Its one hell of a feat from someone whos not cosmic but it doenst spell its impossible for beings above him.

And Hulk does have my respect.

They are speaking of the Celestials. I'm not assuming that they are talking about Celestials. The Celestials did try to take the flame of life by breaking through the wall, and they failed. That's why everyone was astounded when Hulk succeeded.

Glad to know it. It's a rarity on this forum.

Is Hulk that underrated here? I know i havent been here for long but he seems to be always a contender for winner in most of threads where he shows up.

Since i dont have that full story its too much a problem getting the pages where theyr talking about it?

well scans dont prove much really , yours certainly dont olympian. you just refuse to accept basic principles that make the characteristic of the character. hulk has no limit physically potentially end. odin unable to transport or whatever would noyt be any different physically to any other hero. of that list how many fights end due to outside interference ( except thanos etc which is a silly match up) hulk rarely beats other major heros. its just how hes written. however his feats outclass most on that list, and my arguments on here state that if the fight went on long enough hulk would turn out victor, against juggie, herc, thor, and his character and history and how he was created back that up. no scan unfortunately would. comprende small dick

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Oh its just you.

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