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Any Debates

i say hoyu

Nothing goes above THOTU.

Except THOTM

As it stands, there's no way to say THOTU effects just one or all universes.
But it's still above Beyonder.

Damn skippy.

Hmmm, I thought Beyonder was the SUM of an entire dimension, doesnt that make him THOHD (THE HEART OF HIS DIMENSION)

Depends. What's the difference between a universe, a reality, a timeline and a dimension? They're sometimes used interchangably, but sometimes not.

The thing is, did The End actually say it was gods power? I dont remember reading that. Its power never affected anything but one universe as was clearly shown so who's to say? When you say True Beyonder do you mean Pre retcon Beyonder or the race of true beyonders? If the latter, we dont know anything about them to debate on them.

I think he means the original Beyonder (SW I and II).

In SW II, the Living Tribunal was scared of the Beyonder. So were the Celestials.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The thing is, did The End actually say it was gods power? I dont remember reading that. Its power never affected anything but one universe as was clearly shown so who's to say? When you say True Beyonder do you mean Pre retcon Beyonder or the race of true beyonders? If the latter, we dont know anything about them to debate on them.
HOTU was all
He said no one is a match for him.

If this was concerning one reality ( and power not to effect others realities LT wouldn’t care)

I have shown many times of the abstract he absorbed are multiversal

Originally posted by kgkg
HOTU was all
He said no one is a match for him.

If this was concerning one reality ( and power not to effect others realities LT wouldn’t care)

I have shown many times of the abstract he absorbed are multiversal

They have multiversal counterparts. They are however not multiversal in the sense that there are only one of them in the whole multiverse. If one of these abstracts dies in a universe then while the effects of that death may indeed be felt across the multiverse by their counterparts it wouldnt result in the absence of what that abstract was representing in any other universe but their own.

Thanos absorbed and therefore dispatched the abstracts of the 616 reality however the power was presumably potent enough to represent a threat to other realities which was why LT got involved.


Pre retcon Beyonder also claimed to be above all but that doesnt mean he exceeds TOAA in power.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
They have multiversal counterparts. They are however not multiversal in the sense that there are only one of them in the whole multiverse. If one of these abstracts dies in a universe then while the effects of that death may indeed be felt across the multiverse by their counterparts it wouldnt result in the absence of what that abstract was representing in any other universe but their own.

Thanos absorbed and therefore dispatched the abstracts of the 616 reality however the power was presumably potent enough to represent a threat to other realities which was why LT got involved.


Pre retcon Beyonder also claimed to be above all but that doesnt mean he exceeds TOAA in power.

HOTU was all , meaning he was the LT

Originally posted by kgkg
HOTU was all , meaning he was the LT

No it does not mean he was the LT because LT was not all. If he was all he would have been a multiverse and wouldnt have been afraid of Beyonder and he wouldnt get humbled by Phoenix.

HOTU was greater than LT for it to do that to him.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
No it does not mean he was the LT because LT was not all. If he was all he would have been a multiverse and wouldnt have been afraid of Beyonder and he wouldnt get humbled by Phoenix.

HOTU was greater than LT for it to do that to him.
LT was not all HOTU was all.

what is it so hard to understand.

if HOTU is all of creation then he is one with everything.

he is evolution , he is planets , he is spider , he is everything

Couldnt edit:

lol, I still think HOTU.

However, Beyonder was of his own reality (multiverse I believe). I just thought it would be interesting.

Originally posted by Ethereal
Couldnt edit:

lol, I still think HOTU.

However, Beyonder was of his own reality (multiverse I believe). I just thought it would be interesting.
True Beyonder was like HOTU of beyond the multiverse.

He was everything as well ( of beyond the multiverse)

his will is reality

Originally posted by kgkg
LT was not all HOTU was all.

what is it so hard to understand.

if HOTU is all of creation then he is one with everything.

he is evolution , he is planets , he is spider , he is everything


You said that HOTU was all meaning that he was LT.

I took that as you were saying LT was all as most people would. KG has my tutoring been to no avail? *sigh*. Disappointingly it seems it must continue.

You actually meant that because it was all that it was also LT as well. OK i get ya now. Well thats debatable because that could have been hyperbole because he certainly never showed any powers that extended beyond one reality when he had HOTU. But either way i wont argue cos you're a buddy and i hate embarassing you so.

Well as Beyonder claimed to be another multiverse embodied and because he not only had LT scared but went on to display greater feats and showed he had the power to dispatch the abstracts just like Thanos did, I would go with Pre-ret Beyonder. Also the abstracts were to scared to actually engage Beyonder in a physical confrontation, yet they didnt hesistate with Thanos so that sways me.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You said that HOTU was all meaning that he was LT.

I took that as you were saying LT was all as most people would. KG has my tutoring been to no avail? *sigh*. Disappointingly it seems it must continue.

You actually meant that because it was all that it was also LT as well. OK i get ya now. Well thats debatable because that could have been hyperbole because he certainly never showed any powers that extended beyond one reality when he had HOTU. But either way i wont argue cos you're a buddy and i hate embarassing you so.

Well as Beyonder claimed to be another multiverse embodied and because he not only had LT scared but went on to display greater feats and showed he had the power to dispatch the abstracts just like Thanos did, I would go with Pre-ret Beyonder. Also the abstracts were to scared to actually engage Beyonder in a physical confrontation, yet they didnt hesistate with Thanos so that sways me.

he certainly never showed any powers that extended beyond one reality when he had HOTU

hmmm absorbing everything ( including order , choas , and LT )

not much

Originally posted by kgkg
he certainly never showed any powers that extended beyond one reality when he had HOTU

hmmm absorbing everything ( including order , choas , and LT )

not much


Ok but LT was ctually scared of Beyonder whereas he fought Thanos without hesitation.

Chaos and Order are universal abstracts KG who exist at the nexus point of a reality. The point where it connects to another universe. They are universal abstracts with multiversal counterparts. So LT was all you needed mate

Either way Pre-ret Beyonders still more impressive

Yeah Pre-Ret Beyonders even more impressive than ..phoenix too.

Question: Are the "True Beyonders" outside of the normal Marvel multiverse?

Apparently no one has ever seen True Beyonders in the MU, however, it is widely excepted that they do exist. It never has been stated where exactly the Beyond Realm is. If they do lie outside of Marvel's multiverse, then it is very probable that they could match the power of THOTU.

What's the difference between the multiverse and the omniverse? How many universes comprise the multiverse? Where does one multiverse end and the next begin? What's a dimension?

Unknown.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Question: Are the "True Beyonders" outside of the normal Marvel multiverse?

Apparently no one has ever seen True Beyonders in the MU, however, it is widely excepted that they do exist. It never has been stated where exactly the Beyond Realm is. If they do lie outside of Marvel's multiverse, then it is very probable that they could match the power of THOTU.
Yes it is outside the marvel Multiverse

LT, Chaos, and Order were beyond space/time talking about the beyond realm.

The cubes are product of its energy.

so therefore ...................

Originally posted by Ethereal
Yeah Pre-Ret Beyonders even more impressive than ..phoenix too.





Well actually thats not entirely true. Beyonder scared LT and the Phoenix power was shown in Xmen Forever to be enough to bring LT to his knees. Beyonder was supposed to be his multiverse embodied and Phoenix is the sum and substance of all life in existence as she says "Nothing that is is not touched by me....All that is i am.....the stars and the planets are my children"


But anyway im getting sidetracked Phoenix isnt involved in this discussion

Beyonder in his original form was more impressive

Yes, but Magneto Prime still has the best on panel feats of all! Omniversal destruction! Go Magneto!!!!

Originally posted by demigawd
What's the difference between the multiverse and the omniverse? How many universes comprise the multiverse? Where does one multiverse end and the next begin? What's a dimension?

Unknown.

According to some, the Omniverse is greater then the multerverse because the Omniverse is composed of every multiverse (DC, Image, Vertigo, Marvel, Dark Horse, etc.)

ok, so then Marvel is a multiverse, DC is a multiverse, Image is a multiverse, etc. But all of them together are an omniverse? If that's the case, then the God in one is the God in all of them, right? Does that mean that there's something greater than the Presence that all multivereses yield to? There's no Phoenix in DC or Image...does that mean that Phoenix does not have jurisdiction in another multiverse?

GS - what do you think?

Originally posted by demigawd
ok, so then Marvel is a multiverse, DC is a multiverse, Image is a multiverse, etc. But all of them together are an omniverse? If that's the case, then the God in one is the God in all of them, right? Does that mean that there's something greater than the Presence that all multivereses yield to? There's no Phoenix in DC or Image...does that mean that Phoenix does not have jurisdiction in another multiverse?

GS - what do you think?

I guess so !!!
That means LT is just another ... "herald" and Odin iss just a "street guy"

Originally posted by demigawd
What's the difference between the multiverse and the omniverse? How many universes comprise the multiverse? Where does one multiverse end and the next begin? What's a dimension?
Unknown.


Good questions..

My thought has always been that Marvel, DC, Image, Real world, etc, etc...are all seperate "multiverses." Essentially each are a collection of universes, comprised of different realities, which are interelated by a common link which exist within them all...such as THOTU.

What seperates DC, Marvel, Image, Real world etc so they are not defined as one multiverse?

Answer: No "common link" and the laws that each are governed by.
THOTU does not exist in the DCU, Image Universe, Dark Horse Universe, etc..etc...nor do the laws that govern it.

The Omniverse would be a a loose unlinked collection of all these distinct multiverses.

How do we know that the Omniverse in itself isn't just one big multiverse?

Short answer: We don't...but until a common link is found relating all respective multiverses..such as the HOTU..I believe its fair to assume that each multiverse is a seperate entity, or in lamans terms it has a seperate or discrete existence.

Confusing..eh..

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Question: Are the "True Beyonders" outside of the normal Marvel multiverse?

Apparently no one has ever seen True Beyonders in the MU, however, it is widely excepted that they do exist. It never has been stated where exactly the Beyond Realm is. If they do lie outside of Marvel's multiverse, then it is very probable that they could match the power of THOTU.

The only person to actually been in the beyonders dimension is the High Evolutionary and he went mad because he couldn't comprehend anything in there, and that's a guy who has genius IQ.

The real question is does the Beyonder have the power that his name implies. Does he have power beyond himself if you know what i mean. I think he does. He's not just everything and all.

Originally posted by demigawd
Yes, but Magneto Prime still has the best on panel feats of all! Omniversal destruction! Go Magneto!!!!


This "Magneto Prime" ( ridiculous lol) also has better on panel feats than LT and TOAA but that doesnt mean he's more powerful does it? Keep on dreaming Demi lol. After we find out in a few issues who's really behind all of this trouble then you can always place your hope in CC giving him a proper upgrade.

I believe that Marvel, DC etc all the comic book companies have multiverses but for the sake of crossovers theres an omniverse which encompasses all of the companies. I think in such crossovers that the supreme being is one and the same. But obviously thats not the case for the companies in normal circumstances where the multiverses are completely seperate and not linked at all. I belive that in crossovers that beings which share similar roles even if they dont share similar power levels in their respective multiverses may be lumped together as one or shown to be different incarnations of the same thing. For example In Marvel one of Phoenixes roles is to take humanity to that final point of evolution wherein they surpass the abstracts and become one with creation enabling phoenix to bring about the end. Phoenix in other words brings man to the point of godhood. In Dc it is the Source that made the New Gods into what they are it raised them to the point of godhood. In a Xmen and Teen titans crossover Darkseid resurrected a psionic shell of Dark Phoenix by empowering Dark Phoenixes psychic residue left on earth with energies from the source. At the end of the title that shard of Phoenix flew back to the Source to be complete all in all suggesting that in the crossover ominverse theres a force that is the Phoenix in Marvel and the Source in DC.

If you remember right when the beyonder came to marvel and was first "seen" in SW2; he walked right through all the big brass. Eternity, Death, Celestials. You name it he owned them. I doubt there was anything anyone would do about it.
If I remember right he was also omnicient and knew what he wanted to know about what others were going to do to him but since he was also omnipotent he figed. who really cares.

Thanos curbstomps

True Beyonders win without effort...

Pre-Retcon Beyonder wins this without effort as well...

Could go either way

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Could go either way

Not a chance...

It was repeatedly emphasized that Pre-Retcon Beyonder was atleast a million times greater than our reality and everything in it combined...

That description includes the HotU/I and the Infinity Gems (even though they havent been discovered/true power realized, they were still there)...

Thanos gets annihilated as a result...

Classic Beyonder 10000000/10...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Not a chance...

It was repeatedly emphasized that Pre-Retcon Beyonder was atleast a million times greater than our reality and everything in it combined...

That description includes the HotU/I and the Infinity Gems (even though they havent been discovered/true power realized, they were still there)...

Thanos gets annihilated as a result...

Classic Beyonder 10000000/10... it never once said Beyonder was more powerful than TOAA, who's power Thanos.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
it never once said Beyonder was more powerful than TOAA, who's power Thanos.

Fail...

Classic Beyonder was stated on panel to be far greater than our reality and 'everything in it combined.'

Tell me, where was the HotU/I located?

Lol...Classic Beyonder crushes him.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Fail...

Classic Beyonder was stated on panel to be far greater than our reality and 'everything in it combined.'

Tell me, where was the HotU/I located?

Lol...Classic Beyonder crushes him. you're so a child , we are talking about TOAA's power.

TOAA essentially created Beyonder and everything within Marvel.

Get over your butthurt it makes you look sad.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
you're so a child , we are talking about TOAA's power.

TOAA essentially created Beyonder and everything within Marvel.

Get over your butthurt it makes you look sad.

No, you and your butt faced boyfriend are butt hurt...

Nothing you say can refute what Classic Beyonder was...

Atleast a million times greater than our entire reality and 'everything in it combined.'

Read em and weep child, Thanos takes a far greater beating than he took from Odin here:

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No, you and your butt faced boyfriend are butt hurt...

Nothing you say can refute what Classic Beyonder was...

Atleast a million times greater than our entire reality and 'everything in it combined.'

Read em and weep child, Thanos takes a far greater beating than he took from Odin here: 3 posts In and you're back to been a idiot. Great job convincing people

You have zero showings to say Beyonder crushes HOTU, Thanos made statements than say he owns everything within Marvel etc.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Not a chance...

It was repeatedly emphasized that Pre-Retcon Beyonder was atleast a million times greater than our reality and everything in it combined...

That description includes the HotU/I and the Infinity Gems (even though they havent been discovered/true power realized, they were still there)...

Thanos gets annihilated as a result...

Classic Beyonder 10000000/10...

Read em and weep Thanos s3xy toy!!!

The Gems and the HotU/I are included in this!!!

I'm curious if LoM ever gets tired of getting banned.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I'm curious if LoM ever gets tired of getting banned.

Give me credit for never making a sock account atleast!

Besides, Nihilist was begging to be raw dogged...

You know its true...

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Thanos made statements than say he owns everything within Marvel etc.

Ah, but this the writter saying that Classic Beyonder was MILLIONS of times greater than 'everything else combined.'

Big difference...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I'm curious if LoM ever gets tired of getting banned. I don't think he's smart enough to understand tbh.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
I don't think he's smart enough to understand tbh.

I'm smart enough to know what the WRITTER is stating in the final panel of the following scan!

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No, you and your butt faced boyfriend are butt hurt...

Nothing you say can refute what Classic Beyonder was...

Atleast a million times greater than our entire reality and 'everything in it combined.'

Read em and weep child, Thanos takes a far greater beating than he took from Odin here: Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Give me credit for never making a sock account atleast!

Besides, Nihilist was begging to be raw dogged...

You know its true... Stop your trolling and baiting. You don't have many chances left.Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'm smart enough to know what the WRITTER is stating in the final panel of the following scan!

But are you smart enough to correctly spell writer?

Thanos, easily.

Originally posted by Badabing
Stop your trolling and baiting. You don't have many chances left. But are you smart enough to correctly spell writer?

Me trolling?

My argument is logical, sound, and completely true...

Besides, others here troll almost constantly, so why single me out? You got trolls here on sock accounts that we know for a fact are sock accounts...where are their warnings?

And if you noticed, Nihilist flamed 1st in this thread...

As pertained my spelling, mistakes happen; doesn't detract from the fact that my argument is solid...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos, easily.

Tell me Quanchi, where was the HotU/I located when Thanos obtained it?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Me trolling?

My argument is logical, sound, and completely true...

Besides, others here troll almost constantly, so why single me out? You got trolls here on sock accounts that we know for a fact are sock accounts...where are their warnings?

And if you noticed, Nihilist flamed 1st in this thread...

As pertained my spelling, mistakes happen; doesn't detract from the fact that my argument is solid... Yes, you are trolling.

And pointing out bad behavior of other people is no justification of your own bad behavior, nor is it an excuse. You go out of your way to bait the Thanos fans. So your plea of getting bashed first has zero credibility.

You're the one who brought up being smart. And you misspelled it twice. Irony is lost upon you.

So to recap, your defense is trying to point out bad behavior of others to justify your bad behavior. And to do this you openly argue with a mod, which is against the rules.

Your best bet is to put Thanos fans on ignore, stop trolling and baiting, and follow the rules from now on.

IMHO, Beyonder wins.

Originally posted by zopzop
IMHO, Beyonder wins. Same.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Tell me Quanchi, where was the HotU/I located when Thanos obtained it? I won't go off topic for you. Thanos wins.

THOTI wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I won't go off topic for you. Thanos wins.

The question isnt off topic at all simply because if the HotU/I was located in our reality, then there is no way Thanos can win as Classic Beyonder instantly becomes millions of times stronger than Thanos in this senario...

So, once again, where was this item when Thanos obtained it?

Or do you concede a Thanos defeat?

Beyonder=HOTU

Id go with Classic Beyonder to win in the end, as well.