Seraph Sephiroth vs. Trance Kuja

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Steve128967
So who do you think?

Steve128967
I only say Seph cause he has lie, what, twice as much health?

punkrocker666
sephiroth would win

Arbiter
Sephiroth has 60,000 hp
Trance Kuja has 57,677 hp

Steve128967
Have you played the games? It even says online Sephiroth has over 100,000 health. And Kuja has 55,535 (I think; maybe wrong somewhere in Kujas health). But Sephiroth has such a big shiny sword! If you're thinking of Sephiroth have 60,000 health, you've confused him with final form Kefka.

Arbiter
No Sephiroth doesn't have 100,000 because I did 1 Knights of the Round Table on him which does like 70,000-80,000 points of damage and he was dead. I have the games and walkthroughs and they don't say what Sephiroth's health was and my bad with Kuja. I pushed the wrong buttons.

Arbiter
Boss |-------------------------------------o
| o------o |
| |
| - Name: Safer.Sephiroth - |
| |
| HP........ 80,000+ AP........ N/A Weak........ N/A |
| MP........ 680 Gil....... N/A Immune...... Gvty, Poisn, Eth |
| XP........ N/A Level..... 70 Strong...... N/A |
| Drain....... N/A |
| Steal....... N/A |
| o--------------- Strategy ------------o Drop........ N/A |
| |
| This is a difficult fight to predict because there are a number of |
| variables to be honest not of all which I understand. The give you the |
| best general idea, the higher level your characters are the more life he |
| will have, he also gets an HP boost if you used Knights of the Round in |
| the previous boss fights in the crater. Regardless of how you proceed |
| here are some important recommendations. First of all though it is |
| always implied, Big Guard is a must. He will cast Wall on himself |
| your job that much harder. As for his attacks, be sure to cast White |
| Wind immediately after Pale Horse if the character hit isn't wearing a |
| Ribbon. If he rises into the air only characters whose attacks are long |
| ranged can hurt him. It also means he's planning to use his ultimate |
| attack, 'Super Nova' which deals heavy damage to everyone and takes about |
| as long to cast as it does to play through the game up to this point. |
| When trying to damage him focus on strong attacks with your weapons |
| and limits especially after his Wall wears off. If he happens to try |
| and destroy your barriers be sure to cast Big Guard immediately after. |
| Quadra Magic, W-Magic, W-Summon are all great here. Don't forget to |
| heal with Megalixirs all you want since they'll have no use after this |
| fight. Also if you did do the Chocobo sidequest, a single cast of |
| Knights of the Round may be all that is needed, though not required. |
| Everything that has worked effectively up to this point should work |
| effectively here. |
| |
o----------------------------------------------------------------------------o

Steve128967
Sephiroths health is 150,000. Was this right at the beginning of the fight that you used Knights of the Round? Cause he does of 150,000 health.

Shadow_Star
Spehiroth doesn't have 150,000 hp.

Steve128967
It says it online.

Arbiter
Originally posted by Steve128967
Sephiroths health is 150,000. Was this right at the beginning of the fight that you used Knights of the Round? Cause he does of 150,000 health.
Yes. Sephiroth's health depends on your level and I was at lv.60 with KOTRT and never used it on Bizzaro Sephiroth because you can only use summons once per battle and I didn't want to waste it.

Steve128967
Ah. My brother was at 99 with all characters except Tifa who was 95. But if you were like 60 that would probably happen. Sorry my bad.

Shadow_Star
Originally posted by Steve128967
It says it online.
Yeah but when I was looking at DBZ powerlevels it says:
SSJ Gokue fighting Frieza
1 website= 15,000,000
Another website= 35,000,000
Yet another website= 800,000
I also seen different hp for different final fantasy bosses like Zeromus
120,000
100,000
180,000

Arbiter
Originally posted by Steve128967
Ah. My brother was at 99 with all characters except Tifa who was 95. But if you were like 60 that would probably happen. Sorry my bad.
I used KOTRT once against Sephiroth because all the other times I killed BS with KOTRT and allowed Cloud who was at lv.99 and with the Ultimate Weapon to use Omni-Slash which does over 150,000 points of damage.

Steve128967
Mmm. That would explain it.

Dizzle
Storywise, Kuja beats Sephiroth. And I'm pretty sure his normal, full powered form is the most powerful version of Sephiroth. But Kuja did some serious damage to a whole planet, where Seph needed Black Materia.

Steve128967
True. Though Kuja blew himself to toasty bits laughing But while Sephiroth did use the Black Materia to summon Meteor. But, in Nibelheim, Cloud stabbed Sephiroth once or twice then knocked him into the Lifestream. Sephiroths will was so great he had himself imprisoned within a Materia Crystal and stayed dormant for five years. Other people probably would have shriveled up and died. Hint, hint purple haired cross dressers. Then Hojo made a couple of Sephiroth clones, which I think, Sephiroth then controlled all at the same time. And, he held back Holy, the planets most powerful weapon, while fighting the party, first as Bizarro, then as Seraph. Then finally when his strongest cloen was absolutely manslaughtered he managed to crawl with his grubby but well cleaned hands into Clouds head. Kuja held back no huge energy weapons. Instead, he bitches a lot when he's hurt and tired.

Dizzle
It's true, Sephiroth is much cooler than Kuja, (he's got a manthong, dammit) I think Trance Kuja edges him out in the raw power deal.

Steve128967
Hmm, true. So, Flare Star is well, a star of fire or whatever. Super Nova is like six planets blowing up. I think Flare Star is a bit bigger. But Super Nova is much more powerful.

Arbiter
Ultima is stronger. It is a 1 hit KO making Kuja 2 and 0.

Steve128967
Well to the heroes it is anyway. But that was programmed into the game to kill the heroes. I don't think it would be an instant kill to a boss. Because Death never worked on any boss.

Steve128967
Oh and Sephiroth could control Cloud. And so Sephiroth could make Cloud use Omni-Slash and then some which would kill Kuja cool

JKozzy
Originally posted by Arbiter
Yes. Sephiroth's health depends on your level and I was at lv.60 with KOTRT Precisely.

GrieverSquall
Who's Seraph Sephiroth? That's not Safer Sephiroth...? Anyway.
I won't use gamepleay to determine who would win because it's useless.

Trance Kuja destroyed an entire planet using his powers. Sephiroth couldn't even take a planet, I think Trance Kuja would win.

MadMel
^^ agreed

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Who's Seraph Sephiroth? That's not Safer Sephiroth...? Anyway.
I won't use gamepleay to determine who would win because it's useless.

Trance Kuja destroyed an entire planet using his powers. Sephiroth couldn't even take a planet, I think Trance Kuja would win.

Seraph Sephiroth is the correct translation of Safer Sephiroth. Just remember that FF7 was full of bad translations.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
Seraph Sephiroth is the correct translation of Safer Sephiroth. Just remember that FF7 was full of bad translations.

Ah I see, thanks for the info.

wakkawakkawakka
I say Kuja win and I barely know about him. I noticed something while looking through these forums and I want to ask: why is Sephiroth put up against dimension destroyers, space time sorceresses, and planet busters when he himself couldn't destroy dimensions, manipulate space-time or destroy a planet? Seriously Sephiroth isn't that strong when you compare him to other Final Fantasy villians.

SpadeKing
Because fanboyism can make any character unstoppable or just flat-out annoying.

fascistcrusader
Sephiroth is more powerful than most FF final bosses, while universe busters like Chaos, Ultimecia and Exdeath outclass him by an enormous margin and he isn't quite as powerful as Kefka, he has greater power than the rest of the villains of the series.

SpadeKing
Sadly people will still argue sephiroth not just wins against them, but utterly destroys.

fascistcrusader
I don't get it. looking at it objectively Sephiroth is more powerful than a lot of people on here want to admit, but he simply can't compete with people who can make the universe go bye bye.

SpadeKing
Cause after all you hear is peoplestating seph wins by speed blitz and use FF damge statistics over and over instead of actually arguing the fight, you just start to hate the character's guts... and the person.

wakkawakkawakka
I'n not doubting Sephiroth is powerful but he isn't exactly a galactic threat. Jenova was(keyword) a threat to other planets but Sephiroth technically hasn't done anything. He does seem more of a threat than most of them in terms of boss fights but when comparing actually storylines, Sephiroth is just badly outclassed.

However KH Sephiroth just makes things confusing.

fascistcrusader
KH Sephiroth is not in any way related to FF VII Sephiroth. KH Sephiroth is KH Cloud(who is not FF VII Cloud)'s darkness. As for how big of a threat he is, he has an attack that can break dimensional barriers, he can move faster than any other FF boss we've seen, and he is the greatest swordsman in the entire series, plus he's not limited to just one world, upon assimilating the lifestream of a planet he can use it to travel to other planets for a rinse and repeat. His only problem is that he isn't magic personified and he can't destroy all of spacetime.

GrieverSquall
If Sephiroth could have absorbed all of the Lifestream's energy, he would have been at the same league as Ultimecia and others.

fascistcrusader
I wouldn't say that, it would have put him above Kefka as he'd not only be in control of all the spirit energy of the world, making him the source of magic like Kefka, but he would be able to travel to other planets and assimilate their lifestreams as well, instead of being stuck on one.

Ultimecia, however, doesn't just absorb spirit energy one planet at a time, she was absorbing the entire universe, spacetime itself, the very fabric of reality. Exdeath with his control of the Void could erase the universe, and Chaos is capable of destroying the entire FF omniverse.

GrieverSquall
Either way, what I meant was that Sephiroth would have been in the same league as many of the other Final Fantasy antagonists if he could have achieved that goal, like you said, he could have surpassed Kefka for example.

What do you mean by the "FF omniverse" ? What's that?

Phanteros
Omniverse is all the universes in fiction in total. Which FF doesn't have. its more of a multiverse.

GrieverSquall
Ah... I see, so fascistcrusader meant that Chaos was capable of destroying all of the Final Fantasy worlds? I wonder from where he have learned that. By the way, Dissidia isn't canon.

fascistcrusader
No, Dissidia is canon, hence why the creators have all called it canon and it's Ultimania treats it as canon. Stop ignoring the facts, which I'll post here once again for your entertainment:

the Dissidia Ultimania explains that Sephiroth wants the heroes to succed in defeating Chaos so everything will go back to normal so he could get back to his Geostigma plan.

-Squall directly mentions his promise to Rinoa, a promise which
happens in FF VIII, meaning he is the real Squall from that universe.

-In KH the FF characters are from Hollow Bastion or other locations in the KH universe, in Dissidia they are all from their own separate universes and return there upon defeating Chaos.

-Firion speaks of comrades he'd lost before, meaning he's the same Firion from FF II.

-Cloud says Firion reminds him of Zack, and he calls the Buster Sword a momento. If Dissidia CLoud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know Zack and certainly wouldn't call his sword a momento if he didn't recieve it from his dying comrade.

-Takeshi Arakawa, director of Dissidia said, "As a rule we were extremely careful to treat DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY as a genuine entry in the FINAL FANTASY series."

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
No, Dissidia is canon, hence why the creators have all called it canon and it's Ultimania treats it as canon. Stop ignoring the facts, which I'll post here once again for your entertainment:

the Dissidia Ultimania explains that Sephiroth wants the heroes to succed in defeating Chaos so everything will go back to normal so he could get back to his Geostigma plan.

-Squall directly mentions his promise to Rinoa, a promise which
happens in FF VIII, meaning he is the real Squall from that universe.

-In KH the FF characters are from Hollow Bastion or other locations in the KH universe, in Dissidia they are all from their own separate universes and return there upon defeating Chaos.

-Firion speaks of comrades he'd lost before, meaning he's the same Firion from FF II.

-Cloud says Firion reminds him of Zack, and he calls the Buster Sword a momento. If Dissidia CLoud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know Zack and certainly wouldn't call his sword a momento if he didn't recieve it from his dying comrade.

-Takeshi Arakawa, director of Dissidia said, "As a rule we were extremely careful to treat DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY as a genuine entry in the FINAL FANTASY series."

First off, I'm not ignoring any of your facts, I'm reading them with respect and attention. I said I WANT Dissidia to be canon, don't take my words as I would want to argue with you or contradict you, but when something's not convincing enough, there's nothing to do. You claim so many suppositions in your argument, at least I want to know from where you have learned about the Dissidia Ultimania, about the creators stating that Dissidia IS canon, etcetera, from where you have read that? I would like to know what official source you have checked for this conclusion in your words, send me the link through private if you wish, no problem.

Ok, basically you said that each character is the authentic from each Final Fantasy game because in some parts of Dissidia they states things from the original games, like the Squall's promise, Cloud speaking about Zack or Sephiroth. Let's analyze Cloud.

Like I said before, Cloud is also introduced in Final Fantasy Tactics, these are his words when he appears:

-"I remember being swallowed by a current, a great stream, and then..."

You clearly see in the game that the machine that transported Cloud is a device for teleportation across dimensions meaning that Cloud was from another dimension, across the very fabric of time and space, in other words, he was transported from another world, Final Fantasy VII.

He says:

-"That's right. I was...I was a member of SOLDIER."

Then... He speaks about Sephiroth.

-"Uh... What is this...this feeling in my fingertips?"
-"The heat! Inside my skull... No, stop... Sephiroth!"

All of this means that he's the Cloud from Final Fantasy VII.

In conclusion... If you claim that Dissidia is canon then I could say Final Fantasy Tactics is directly related to Final Fantasy VII which means is also canon.

I ask now... Final Fantasy Tactics is canon?

Sin_Volvagia
Dissidia can't be canon; Terra lost her esper form when Kefka died.

fascistcrusader
Cosmos restored her power, just as Chaos brought Kefka to life. Dissidia has been directly called a genuine entry in the series by it's director, and every scrap of evidence backs this up.

Sin_Volvagia
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Cosmos restored her power, just as Chaos brought Kefka to life. Dissidia has been directly called a genuine entry in the series by it's director, and every scrap of evidence backs this up.

If that's true, Squall > Cloud. Also Exdeath can use TK. He can officially do everything Ganondorf can do.

fascistcrusader
Exdeath would make Ganon his *****. The guy can literally erase the fabric of reality.

GrieverSquall
Then Chaos brought every Final Fantasy antagonist to life. Those aren't assumptions...? Where is the exact quote from its director...? An Official source...? Or you have read it on Wikipedia? Why keep claiming things that doesn't have (as I can see) any backing? Because bringing some of the character's quotes from the game means nothing since I brought Cloud's quotes from Final Fantasy Tactics which proves my point. If Dissidia is considered canon, I could consider Final Fantasy Tactics canon and directly related to Final Fantasy VII's storyline which I REALLY doubt.

I've searched on Google, and believe me, I couldn't find anything of what you speak of. I just found some forums that are debating the same thing without any backing. "Yeah, the director said this and said that". Many people claimed it and yet I haven't seen any proof of it, where the hell is that "Dissidia Ultimania" by the way...?

fascistcrusader

wakkawakkawakka
Whoa! What happedned to happy talk about Kuja beating the crap out of Sephiroth? I always thought of dissidia as the Final Fantasy Super Smash Bros. There are references to the characters original games lying about. However since Dissidia technically never happened due to the heroes on Cosmos' side defeating Chaos and returning the world back to the way it was prior to the war, it can be enjoyed as just a neat and kickass crossover with some canon.

So I see Dissidia as both canon and not canon. Canon because it keeps the original Final Fantasy storylines of all the characters while having them fight a universal threat. It can also be non-canon because if everyone returned back to their own world like nothing happened, then the characters could just all wake up in their respective storylines with a shared dream-like experience and progress through their game accordingly. If anything the characters could all just appear at an inn that they stayed at before they were drafted by the gods.

GrieverSquall

fascistcrusader
Good lord you're either incapable of comprehension or just the most stubborn person on Earth. Let me make this very simple for you:

THE GAMES DIRECTOR, PRODUCER, AND OFFICIAL MATERIALS BOOK CALL IT CANON.

The creators of the game are right, and you're wrong. It's just that simple, they have the final word and your opinion is invalid if you disagree.

K1ll3r
Dissidia is canon.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Good lord you're either incapable of comprehension or just the most stubborn person on Earth. Let me make this very simple for you:

THE GAMES DIRECTOR, PRODUCER, AND OFFICIAL MATERIALS BOOK CALL IT CANON.

The creators of the game are right, and you're wrong. It's just that simple, they have the final word and your opinion is invalid if you disagree.

Dissidia IS canon?! Awesome, you made my day.
Sadly, you lack proof on what you're saying on this post.

fascistcrusader
No, I've given you multiple examples from the game, statements from the Ultimania, and word of god statements from both the director and producer. You, on the other hand, have no evidence that even suggests it isn't canon. Sorry bro. sad

GrieverSquall
Let me make it simple for you...

The only solid evidence you have are the characters quotes from Dissidia, that's totally refuted since I brought official quotes from Final Fantasy Tactics stating that the Cloud that appears is the same Cloud as far as your logic goes. You have nothing but quotes from directors which you can't back up.

You surely copied and pasted those quotes from the producers, what I'm begging for the last time, is that I want to know the official source you've checked, if you paste these quotes, you clearly have read something, if I paste those Cloud's quotes from Final Fantasy Tactics, that means I've read them from the game itself. Ok, you said it's from the Ultimania, then, from where you got that book? You brought it? You have dowloaded it? Do you understand Japanese language? That's what I want to know, back what you're saying. If the director have stated that Dissidia Final Fantasy IS canon, then show me the proof, don't just paste quotes, keep in mind that not ALL we're going to believe your words since there are a lot of people which thinks Dissidia isn't canon and they will keep believing it. In my case I want Dissidia to be canon, but I need proof, I don't want to believe in something that could be a false conjecture. Do you understand, mate?

fascistcrusader
You have proof, you just won't accept it. You also have no evidence suggesting Dissidia being non-canon. It wouldn't matter if I had Nomura, Kitase, and Arakawa visit you at your home and tell you in person that it's canon because you've already shown that you think you know more than them.

LLLLLink
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
No, Dissidia is canon, hence why the creators have all called it canon and it's Ultimania treats it as canon. Stop ignoring the facts, which I'll post here once again for your entertainment:

the Dissidia Ultimania explains that Sephiroth wants the heroes to succed in defeating Chaos so everything will go back to normal so he could get back to his Geostigma plan.

-Squall directly mentions his promise to Rinoa, a promise which
happens in FF VIII, meaning he is the real Squall from that universe.

-In KH the FF characters are from Hollow Bastion or other locations in the KH universe, in Dissidia they are all from their own separate universes and return there upon defeating Chaos.

-Firion speaks of comrades he'd lost before, meaning he's the same Firion from FF II.

-Cloud says Firion reminds him of Zack, and he calls the Buster Sword a momento. If Dissidia CLoud were non canon like KH Cloud, he wouldn't know Zack and certainly wouldn't call his sword a momento if he didn't recieve it from his dying comrade.

-Takeshi Arakawa, director of Dissidia said, "As a rule we were extremely careful to treat DISSIDIA FINAL FANTASY as a genuine entry in the FINAL FANTASY series."

I cant agree with this.
If this is canon because of the reasons you posted, then Smash Bros is canon for a reason as simple as the fact that Link/Mario recognizes Zelda/Peach and wants to protect her.
It sounds ludicrous, doesn't it?

Is Soul Calibur 4's inclusion of the Star Wars characters make their story canon as well? I mean, it can certainly can fit (Yoda's ending).
But, that doesn't make it canon.

Books, developer quotes, etc. aren't good enough. It needs to be in a game.

GrieverSquall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
You have proof, you just won't accept it. You also have no evidence suggesting Dissidia being non-canon. It wouldn't matter if I had Nomura, Kitase, and Arakawa visit you at your home and tell you in person that it's canon because you've already shown that you think you know more than them.

You can't show me anything... Right? That's the problem... Too bad, well I think I'll begin believing in something that could be false, that's fine by me.

You say: "You also have no evidence suggesting Dissidia being non-canon."
That means you accept you don't have evidence either. I just have refuted your Dissidia characters quotes, that's all. But if you are the one claiming that Dissidia IS canon, you must be the one providing factual evidence, not me. I wish Nomura came to my house, no doubts about it. You paste quotes, yet you don't provide the source, too bad for you...

fascistcrusader
That's quite simply the dumbest thing I've ever heard, the creators are the GODS of the games universe. Whatever they say goes, if they said that Squall was really a lesbian women trying to prove she was a tough as a man by pretending to be one that would be canon. If they said Cloud was two midgets inside of a robot they'd be correct.



Can you not read, I've shown you creator quotes, but if you want to be a petty fool here's the source, Kitase's blog on 1up:

Here's the entry where Arakawa says it's a genuine entry in the series:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9001302&publicUserId=6049935

Here's the entry where Kitase says it's not a spin off, but a main entry:

http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=6049935

GrieverSquall
You don't make sense anymore.... Look at LLLLLink's post, does that makes sense to you?

fascistcrusader
Yes, and it's more ignorant than a member of the Ku Klux Klan. The creators are the end all be all of fiction, that's why JK Rowling can make Dumbledore gay after she's done writing the books.

Nephthys
If the developers say its canon (which they do in those links), then its canon. I don't know how anyone could argue with that.

Phanteros
Marvel has an offical online database about their characters, therefore we believe it becaues it was designed by them. Hell comicvine.com serves the same purpose.

if the Creators made this books then its true

GrieverSquall

fascistcrusader
Thank you, I'd buy you a drink if I wasn't so cheap.

GrieverSquall
What do you mean by that?

fascistcrusader
I mean I'd purchase you an alcoholic beverage in celebration of our understanding if I weren't frugal to the point of being stingy.

GrieverSquall
Ah... I get it, sorry, you should know that English isn't my first language, so sorry for my bad grammar.
It's all fine, man. I really want Dissidia to be canon, so if this is the true, I am glad for that. Dissidia is canon. wink

Luminatus
Who cares if Dissidia is canon.
It's crap.
That's all that matters.

Oh and Kuja wins.

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